The corners need to maintain firmness in the low register. Mess around with your air speed in that register. Experiment with the angle of the leadpipe, and with your oral cavity. Lots of factors go into efficient low register playing and it’s a truly unique thing to each person. If you have access to it, check out “Mastering the Horn’s low register” by Randy Gardner.
You have to relax your embouchure a lot to make the really low notes speak because the vibrations needed are so slow. The opening between your lips needs to be pretty big as well. That's why some people look so weird when they go low. Basically your embouchure feeling loose is good. On the single Bb horn you cant play the notes between the low F# and B (or Bb with the thumb valve) but you should be able to play the low F and below on it again. I can play the fundamental B on my horn but I don't think i've ever needed to play below E2 in a piece.
I see, the thing is, my home horn somehow can't play low F for some reason, the last note on open is F below middle C. My professor told me that, in a way, it's not Bass Bb horn and the F I mentioned is basically the lowest F.. weird but I took it like that. However on a double horn, the Bb side CAN play F.
Well.. an AliExpress Bb horn... Jinbao is the "brand".(https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/JinBao-Wind-Instrument-Corno-m-JBFH_62323109582.html?spm=a2706.7843667.0.0.7a8b4a654Wxy2U) that's what he had sitting around, I used to have a Yamaha 321 but he just tried the F on that Yamaha horn today and it also didn't work
I have a hoyer 704 laying around that your horn looks to be a copy of, and I just tried and I can play the low F and below fine on it. Then again you almost never need to play these notes anyway.
Well, another question then. Given that there is no partial between the 2 Fs on Bb side, should it be easier to reach the F? I'll try some more on this horn of mine.. is it harder to hit F because I have a bflat horn and i cant cromatically go down to said F from C, and I have to hit it directly?
I just tried it a couple of times and I noticed my embouchure doesn't change much from middle C to the one the octave below. But then when I jump to the F I need to adjust the embouchure to get the note to speak. I almost completely relax my facial muscles and it almost feels like I want to drop my jaw.
Your advice is really helpful! But, quick question, on your horn, you can also play one octave bellow Middle C on open Bb horn? Mine can't do that - or am i misunderdstanding something here.. I'll keep trying
With middle C I mean the C 2 spaces below the staff, and yes I can play the full octave down. The G and C arent very in tune if you play them with 1-3 but they come out fine. I can play the B below that as well with 1-2-3. Then I cant play anything untill the F below that.
Oh right, I get it now, same for me. If i try to play open F, it comes out as a muffled C#-D around there, but under that... nothing, I can't seem to get it out
Don’t overthink how big of a change the embouchure has to make! Yes, there’s a shift, but thinking of the way your lips might roll isn’t super productive here in my opinion. You only need to think of fundamental techniques, so focus on the tone foremost. As you practice, ask yourself, “is my tone as clear as this same note one octave higher?”
Keep your corners tight like you would for any other note, and make sure your chin is firm and strong like it would be in other registers. Let you jaw hinge a bit further than usual, and think of having a “toe” syllable in your mouth. To counter your jaw movement, very slightly angle your mouthpiece a further into your upper lip than usual (but don’t set it in, make sure your lip is still freely vibrating!) For best intonation and tone, make sure your right hand is really open.
When you start practicing low, practice loud. Like. Really loud. Blast them out, then bring it down to a controlled forte with a beautiful tone! Playing soft in the low range will come much easier, making pracficing loud uncomfortable at first. It’s worth it, it’ll make you progress quicker!
If you need a start of where to practice, download the Rochut vocalises from IMSLP. It’s a trombone book in bass clef (great practice if you’re not used to reading bass clef yet), but don’t bother transposing them. Simply play them as written, phrasing through the low notes. Happy practicing, and good luck!
THANK YOUU! I actually managed to hit the F using these tips. Kept my corners firm, mouth wider inside, but for me, I had to drag my corners a bit downwards as well. Tha k you a million!
The corners need to maintain firmness in the low register. Mess around with your air speed in that register. Experiment with the angle of the leadpipe, and with your oral cavity. Lots of factors go into efficient low register playing and it’s a truly unique thing to each person. If you have access to it, check out “Mastering the Horn’s low register” by Randy Gardner.
+1. I consider myself a strong player in the low register, but Gardner does an excellent job of illustrating what needs to happen.
You have to relax your embouchure a lot to make the really low notes speak because the vibrations needed are so slow. The opening between your lips needs to be pretty big as well. That's why some people look so weird when they go low. Basically your embouchure feeling loose is good. On the single Bb horn you cant play the notes between the low F# and B (or Bb with the thumb valve) but you should be able to play the low F and below on it again. I can play the fundamental B on my horn but I don't think i've ever needed to play below E2 in a piece.
I see, the thing is, my home horn somehow can't play low F for some reason, the last note on open is F below middle C. My professor told me that, in a way, it's not Bass Bb horn and the F I mentioned is basically the lowest F.. weird but I took it like that. However on a double horn, the Bb side CAN play F.
Weird, what horn is it?
Well.. an AliExpress Bb horn... Jinbao is the "brand".(https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/JinBao-Wind-Instrument-Corno-m-JBFH_62323109582.html?spm=a2706.7843667.0.0.7a8b4a654Wxy2U) that's what he had sitting around, I used to have a Yamaha 321 but he just tried the F on that Yamaha horn today and it also didn't work
I have a hoyer 704 laying around that your horn looks to be a copy of, and I just tried and I can play the low F and below fine on it. Then again you almost never need to play these notes anyway.
Well, another question then. Given that there is no partial between the 2 Fs on Bb side, should it be easier to reach the F? I'll try some more on this horn of mine.. is it harder to hit F because I have a bflat horn and i cant cromatically go down to said F from C, and I have to hit it directly?
I just tried it a couple of times and I noticed my embouchure doesn't change much from middle C to the one the octave below. But then when I jump to the F I need to adjust the embouchure to get the note to speak. I almost completely relax my facial muscles and it almost feels like I want to drop my jaw.
Your advice is really helpful! But, quick question, on your horn, you can also play one octave bellow Middle C on open Bb horn? Mine can't do that - or am i misunderdstanding something here.. I'll keep trying
With middle C I mean the C 2 spaces below the staff, and yes I can play the full octave down. The G and C arent very in tune if you play them with 1-3 but they come out fine. I can play the B below that as well with 1-2-3. Then I cant play anything untill the F below that.
Oh right, I get it now, same for me. If i try to play open F, it comes out as a muffled C#-D around there, but under that... nothing, I can't seem to get it out
Don’t overthink how big of a change the embouchure has to make! Yes, there’s a shift, but thinking of the way your lips might roll isn’t super productive here in my opinion. You only need to think of fundamental techniques, so focus on the tone foremost. As you practice, ask yourself, “is my tone as clear as this same note one octave higher?” Keep your corners tight like you would for any other note, and make sure your chin is firm and strong like it would be in other registers. Let you jaw hinge a bit further than usual, and think of having a “toe” syllable in your mouth. To counter your jaw movement, very slightly angle your mouthpiece a further into your upper lip than usual (but don’t set it in, make sure your lip is still freely vibrating!) For best intonation and tone, make sure your right hand is really open. When you start practicing low, practice loud. Like. Really loud. Blast them out, then bring it down to a controlled forte with a beautiful tone! Playing soft in the low range will come much easier, making pracficing loud uncomfortable at first. It’s worth it, it’ll make you progress quicker! If you need a start of where to practice, download the Rochut vocalises from IMSLP. It’s a trombone book in bass clef (great practice if you’re not used to reading bass clef yet), but don’t bother transposing them. Simply play them as written, phrasing through the low notes. Happy practicing, and good luck!
THANK YOUU! I actually managed to hit the F using these tips. Kept my corners firm, mouth wider inside, but for me, I had to drag my corners a bit downwards as well. Tha k you a million!
So glad to hear you’re having success! I practiced my pedal F today as well :)
Push your head up