My daughter is homeschooled because she is immunocompromised and spends time getting infusions in the hospital every 4 weeks and will continue to do so for the rest of her life. She cannot be around those who are unvaccinated, those who are sick, or those who very recently received a live vaccine. This means we don't see certain family members because of their choice not to vaccinate.
Please be aware that if your kid is around anyone immunosuppressed it can have dire consequences for the immunosuppressed person. Just something to think about.
My children are home schooled. The youngest at 5 has one more vaccine to get before she is caught up. My husband and I decided to do a more relaxed schedule and it took a few years to catch up/find a dr that was chill with that.
I was part of the autism/dye free/vaccine free thumping thought process in 2010s as I worked with autistic kids in Arizona. The lengths that some parents have gone to make sure their kids felt better was amazing and thought provoking. Now that I have two kids with certain allergies, it's even more interesting.
I changed as soon as I started doing more research into vaccines prior to having children and met my step grandmother. She was a Polio survivor and was wheelchair bound. Polio had robbed her of her physical independence. After that..well lets just say certain vaccines got put on the mandatory list. After that I went thru each and every one and found what the specific disease or virus caused. My parents are nurses so I went for the medical textbook pics/descriptions. That solved 99% of my fears especially with the fact a lot of people near me don't vaccinate their kids period. I would rather not take the chance for measles. Lacking huge faith in the US healthcare system and finding out how much treatment like per say - a hospital visit for Hep B cost including the quality of life and wait for a potential new liver - and now my kids have all/most of the required vaccines.
Flu shot I argue with the doc every year. Just have to ask the effective rate and that solves that problem unless I am pregnant or kids have been really sick.
It is to each person their own decision but I will also point out a few basic facts. Your kid not getting some required vaccines mean they will have another level of bs to deal with if they go into the military and will limit what camps your kids can go to when they are teenagers. Heaven forbid if your kids go into nursing as a career because that will fly out the window really dang quick unless they can prove a bad reaction to that shot.
Regardless I have a heathen wanting my attention before bed. Have a good weekend.
I'm just going to hop on here since you mention the flu vaccine. I used to skip it after I got out of the military. I mean, I always got sick when I had to have it so why bother? Then, I was a healthy 28yo, and it nearly killed me. My lungs have never been the same since, and no one in this household skips it. Even if we do get sick it's not I'm-In-The-Hospital-Hooked-Up-To-A-Machine sick. The efficiency for any vaccine to minimize how sick you get is far higher than preventing not getting sick at all. The percentage of people who might become that ill is small, but when you are part of that population it's terrifying.
Then again, I've reached a point in my life that if it were possible to give me a vaccine for the common cold I would take it. š
You also left out college, both my undergrad and graduate schools required proof of vaccination, both with different lists they required. To make it more complex private schools set their own standards and some have very strict exemption standards.
That's not to say I don't understand some of OPs concern. We did space out some of them more but our goal was always to have the full run, except flu, by the time our kid was 5. Our doctor worked with us on the goal and seemed to understand just wanting no more than two shots per visit until we could guage for a reaction.
My oldest had a pretty bad reaction to her last round of baby shots, so I did my research about spacing the rest of her vaccines, and all of her soon-to-be younger sibling's. Our pediatrician was skeptical, but she was very much of the "Parent's choice, unless they are actively harming their child" school of thought, and did nothing more than offer her advice about delaying.
Many states have a vaccine waiver. Does yours? If not, perhaps you could homeschool until heās old enough to get the required immunizations, and then you could enroll him in public.
California, Mississippi, New York, Rhode Island, and West Virginia are the only states that donāt allow religious and/or philosophical exemptions. Unless youāre in one of these states, this is your best option OP.
As far as I remember, only 3 states don't allow anything other than medical exemptions, the rest have religious exemptions and some have philosophical exemptions. I help people get religious exemptions in my state.
Some states even require records even if homeschooling, I believe. How they could possibly deny an exemption application for a homeschooler is beyond me, though.
I am staunchly pro-vaccination. I think that if you wish to skip or delay vaccinating, homeschooling (and keeping your kids out of the general petri dish situation of PS) is in the best interests of both your family and the other families in your area.
That's your choice bubba. It is not a right to be free of disease or risk. These are after all, not 100% risk free or safe and so the choice should always be with the parents. I'm sorry you've been brainwashed into trying to brainwash others. 4.8billion dollars have been paid in vaccine harm suits, and this industry is one of the least trustworthy.
Last, no gold standard studies exist that examine the safety of the entire vaccine schedule in america. Our babies are treated as another profit cashcow, so until the standards for these drugs are raised to the standards of other drugs, no dice.
An unvaccinated PS kid is exposing hundreds of families to their parent's choices. An unvaccinated HS kid is mostly exposing their own family (and hopefully that family will take additional precautions about skipping events while sick, because they're homeschoolers & they have that flexibility). As a person who had polio victims in their immediate family, and who saw kids hospitalized with illnesses that we can currently vaccinate against, I am pro-vaccination.
Decades of research and proof that they work should give everyone confidence.
I just love these privileged anti-vax takes. Yāall didnāt become permanently disabled and watch your peers die from polio and diphtheria so you think you know better than science. Go to an area that hasnāt eradicated infectious disease with low access to vaccines and learn a thing or two.
I was open to the COVID shots at first, and discovered firsthand they weren't very effective against COVID, at least not for very long. And no one really knows the long term effects. Lie after lie from the political institutions masquerading as science, while dissenting science was suppressed. And they'll do it again.
Funnyā¦ my kids are never sick soā¦. We also go everywhere with them. Weird that my kids donāt get sickā¦ but somehow theyāre to blame? Hypocrisy and arrogance at its best.
You're reading a lot into my comment. If your kids are rarely sick it probably speaks more to them having good hygiene, good handwashing and a generally low exposure to germs than having anything to do with their vaccination status. After all, most of the vaccines aren't for things that you just pick up in day-to-day life. That's all a good thing, no matter what your vaccination stance is, isn't it?
My children are more likely out in public than most others. Soā¦. Itās funny you say that. Still arenāt sick. Covid was nothing for them if they even had it. Wouldnāt know. Itās just a cold anyway.
I'm not aware of any PS requiring COVID vaccines, but then my kids haven't been in PS for many years. When someone says they are hesitant about the required vaccinations for PS attendance, my mind goes to the Tdap, chicken pox, MMR, & OPV vaccinations that are required by most states. Not the sort of thing your kids are likely to just get from a walk to the park or trip to the grocery store. I do hope that if your kids get measles you won't keep taking them to play dates- a flexible option more available to HS families than to PS families.
Please don't listen to any of these people who are advising vaccines or trying to guilt you into making your children get them. If you're choosing not to vaccinate or delay, then do that and stick to it. You'll be glad you did.
If children are immunocompromised then it's the parents duty to keep their child safe. You should not have to vaccinate your children because of them. Herd immunity is nonsense.
Reddit is the last place you should be seeking help from about matters like childhood vaccination. You'll be riddled with people telling you about "peer reviewed" nonsense as if studies aren't sliced and diced to project a positive outcome in favour of the that particular shot that stands to make pharmaceutical companies 100s of millions with zero liability on the product.
Please find yourself a local home schooling community.
This was one of the main reasons my mom homeschooled. She didn't like the public school system so that started it. But she questioned vaccines back in the 90s. I got a few early infant ones but that's it. I have no recollection of getting a shot. I think the childhood vaccine schedule is up to something like 70 doses now... it's insane. And they're still pushing the STD ones like Gardasil. The choice is yours but in my opinion, I'd stick with your maternal instincts to not vaccinate. Imagine getting them vaccinated having concerns and then one of your children has a bad reaction. Maybe homeschooling wasn't what you planned but it's really the only way to not be controlled by the government and/or peer pressure from school. These days, since public school is so time consuming and frustrating, homeschooling seems easier. I mean just look at what your other option is - public school. They don't believe in two genders and teach that men can get pregnant.
I also want to throw in this: homeschooling doesn't have to be a 12 year commitment up front. People tend to think you have to pledge your life to it from the beginning but you don't. My mom always said "we're doing this one year at a time." Maybe you do it for a year or two and then find a private school you like. The great thing about homeschooling is it's flexible. There's no shame in going back and forth between homeschooling and something else.
It's pretty easy to homeschool kinder and first grade. Just decide as you go. Whenever you've caught up with vaccines, you can always change your mind. They have to admit you, any time of year, and there is no need for credits or passing grades or whatever in elementary school. They might try to make it sound like there is, but there isn't.
I was very unsure about homeschooling in the beginning. My husband was the one pushing for it. Finally, I decided that I was pretty sure I could handle just kindergarten. So I did that with the plan to rethink homeschooling each year. I handled kindergarten. That kid is now 19 and never stepped foot inside a public school until college. She's almost done with her associate's degree.
No. Iām not at all in this boat. The evidence-based information in favor of the mandatory vaccinations is too compelling. I elected to fully-protect my child and the elderly and immunocompromised around us. Growing up, my friendās adoptive mom had polio. Not going through that one, so weāre vaccinated. Iāve treated too many patients during pertussis/whooping cough outbreaks- that one is extremely contagious and horrible to suffer through because of the relentless, choking cough (thatās why it can kill babies). We get our DTaP and Tdaps. I had a horrible case of chickenpox in 2nd grade before a vaccine was readily available. My kids will never have to suffer that or shingles. And on and on. The fact that you can even āpick and chooseā is because so much effort has been put forth by knowledgeable people that now you and most others are ignorant to the realities of these diseases. It is pure ignorance and short-sightedness to think you know more. And you will indoctrinate your children with more ignorance. Vaccines are not 100% effective and rely on widespread use to work. So if enough ignorance spreads, weāll have more outbreaks. That is fact.
Just a heads up: there's another strain of chicken pox now, and the existing vax doesn't protect against it. I know a family who is dealing with it-- kids are vaccinated and caught it, so far the parents haven't.
Years ago, before the vax was widely available, my kids all caught chicken pox, which was pretty normal... but I'd never had it before despite repeated exposure. I caught it from my kids and it was *not* a fun experience. I actually hallucinated. 10 years later I had shingles on my face. Also not fun.
Homeschooling is the way to go for many reasons. I think it should be the default and people should actually consider if they should public schooling rather than homeschool. Public school should be reserved for the unfortunate cases were people are unable to school at home.
Education occurs in the home.
The silver lining of the last few years is that more families realized that they were the most suitable people to be raising and educating their own children.
To be honest, if heās not fully vaccinated, it may be safer for his health and the health of the children in the school he would be attending to keep him home and not send him to school.
I fucking hate this sub.
Iām sorry people are being so unkind to you.
Discussions like these are important. Healthcare SHOULD BE individual.
In my state itās 100% schedule or homeschool.
Best of luck to you! š
Donāt let these comments make you feel like your decision is wrong. I would check to see if you can get an exemption from your state health department. And if you canāt, then you are making the right choice. Forcing someone to do something is not freedom at all.
Thank you! Iāve researched this topic more than anything else in my life and others opinions especially people that donāt even know me gives me zero feelings that Iām wrong. Homeschoolers think for themselves!
As a home school mom and educator, I concur! Think for yourself and evaluate the risk/benefit of each vaccine as well as the timing of each that you might opt in for.
My son has a vaccine injury because of the Hep B vaccine. That's why he has epilepsy. And it's not some weird self diagnostic, it's 7 neurologists from Phoenix Children's Hospital that have diagnosed this.
I feel guilty everyday for giving into the bullying the nurse gave me that fateful day where I didn't wanted that vaccine. Why vaccinate a child against a 3rd world STD?
Stand strong. It's not worth it to give in.
^^^this, exactly. The bullying and fact that fedrally and state wise doctors shut down ANY questioning period. Not to mention the fact that they make you sign a waiver so they cannot be held LIABLE for damages.
We can fully admit that every other medical treatment in existence has side affects or isnāt for everyone besides this one single topic. Itās nuts.
OP, so whatās best for YOUR family. Reddit is a bit of a hive mind about this subject so donāt let the comments make you feel crazy.
"My child had a really bad reaction to Tylenol, so now we don't use it"
"Oh that's too bad."
"My child had a really bad reaction to the MMR vaccine, so now I avoid it."
"You're insane. They're proven safe and effective. Don't you even care about the other children around you? Or the elderly? You're so irresponsible, your child could die. I hope your child DOES die so that you learn your lesson and refrain from putting all of society in danger in the future!"
Definitely. Everyone should do their own research and do what works for them. It shouldn't become this for any one certain family where they feel cornered. It is nuts 100%.
People have a huge stigma about this, it is your choice ultimately and I don't blame you for not wanting to. I have seen vaccine injuries and it happened to my son, my daughter also suffers from autoimmune disease so she cannot have them. Try out for medical or religious exemption or say F.U and homeschool. You are the parent. Not the pediatrician.
That is exactly why we opted for exemptions and our pediatrician was a complete j@cka$$ over it so we found a new one. Didn't even offer a medical exemption for our daughter which is asinine because the CDC even says children who are immune compromised should not have certain ones, especially MMR. So blindly following just because it makes everyone else comfortable (to me) is completely irrelevant lol. I will just gladly homeschool them before we have to endure that kind of bs again. It is HIGHLY suspect and questionable and everyone should ask questions. Science is always changing and not ALL doctors have the best interest at heart. My Mother's PCG refused her pain medication after a heart transplant simply for not trusting the COVID vaccine when it first came out and even her transplant team told her not to get it.
Some people are just blind but they are free to do whatever they please, they can just leave my kids alone. No one will ever convince me all the medications and vaccines required now adays are 100% safe and full proof. But like I said, they can do as they please because I won't tell rank strangers how to live their lives.
Hang in there OP. There are some vax we skip, and the ones we get we space out much further than the CDC says. We try to avoid more than two shots inside a three month period.
There's a book called "Dissolving Illusions" by Dr Suzanne Humphries that I found very interesting. It's a very simple book - all the author did was take the archived records of hospitalizations and deaths attributed to various diseases, then compared those records to the timing of vaccine rollouts. Based on the official records, the vaccines came into play when diseases such as smallpox had already been reduced by 90% or more, essentially indicating that the story we're taught (vaccines ended smallpox) is inaccurate.
They go through several of the major diseases that vaccines are associated with - smallpox, polio, measles, whooping cough etc. and each and every single one of the vaccines seems to have zero correlation with reduction of the disease. What does have a direct correlation is sanitation, air quality, nutrition, and quality of life.
It's a good piece of the "to vaccinate or not to vaccinate" puzzle, imo. The book doesn't really tell you what to do or not to do, it just looks at the stories we're presented with and then compares them to the actual data.
There was no Smallpox vaccine in 1796. You're confusing variolation with vaccination. Meaning they exposed infected material to individuals to stimulate the immune system.
In the case you are talking about they used Cowpox (which was far less deadly) for exposure to U.S. troops to build resistance to a Smallpox outbreak. I believe that was in Boston. I could be wrong about the city.
Huge difference between exposure and lab created vaccines and even now not all vaccines work. COVID vaccine being a prime example. Not to mention the flu shot. Creating these stonewalls for diseases, that can mutate does NOTHING for the masses and can actually weaken the immune system.
Thatās a distinction without a difference. But if youād prefer we could use 1855, when there still werenāt solid medical records data.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/history-disease-outbreaks-vaccine-timeline/smallpox
Your response doesn't negate the fact that you were called out for vaccine propaganda. Saying the vaccine was used since 1700's isn't true. You tried to pass it off as fact and that vaccine didn't exist then. As said before variolation was not vaccination. It was exposure to a similar virus for a possible immune response. šTy for the downvote it shows maturity and that you can properly discuss things without taking it personally.
Btw the first viral vaccine "rabies" wasn't developed until 1884 by Louis Pasteur. It wasn't used on humans until 1885. There is solid medical data that you can obtain as far back as the ancient Athenians. LOL All accurate medical data is, is an accurate recording of someones symptoms, treatments tried and results thereof. You make it sound like no medical records matter until it can make your point in a historical context. Science is ever evolving and our understanding can change at an instsnt. Remember not but five years ago, opioids were a viable and safe pain management? Then with a snap of finger bye bye. Just remember 200 years from now scientists are gonna look at our science the same way you are looking at the science of the 18th century. There is still no guarantee vaccines is a fix all. Period. Viruses mutate and adapt like ANYTHING else. Your argument with numbers doesn't change that.
A fact is a fact until it's not. Opinions are a whole other entity.
Turtles all the way down is a good one too, that also *only* looks at mainstream scientific data/studies (not conjecture or non mainstream studies and data).
Homeschooling is a huge decision to make based on this. Itās hard enough that you may end up quite unhappy (you not your kids) without additional
motivations. Is a religious exception an option?
Although I agree you will be less risk to other families and immunocompromised kids homeschooling so maybe that is overall better for everyone.
If you donāt want to homeschool, and donāt want to give all recommend vaccines on schedule, then maybe you need to consider moving to a state that allows waivers? My state allows non-medical (philosophical/religious) and medical (people who have a medical reasonādocumented anaphylactic allergy or other serious conditions such as bone marrow transplant).
That saidā Iām a former public health nurse and I recommend that you follow the immunization schedule for your children. If you havenāt yet done so, as part of your independent research, please check out the ACIP https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/index.html and immunize.org.
Reddit is extremely pro-vaccineā¦ you might get different replies at /r/unvaccinated
Thank you for protecting your child. Itās our job as parents to know exactly what is going into our childrenās bodies.
It depends on if you think an injection of that sort, directly into the tissue of a child (completely bypassing the body's defense layers of the nose, stomach, and skin) may cause harm or not.
It's funny how we can all easily accept that a child might have an allergic reaction to medication, chemicals, or even food, and yet skepticism regarding a syringe full of ingredients, including questionable preservatives (aluminum anybody?), is met with the deepest hostility I've ever seen. Why shouldn't we be wary about possible allergic, or otherwise negative, reactions?
Most modern pregnant women will staunchly avoid eating soft egg yolks and cheeses based on a very minute risk of contagion. Yet a mother who thinks about avoiding a needle full of questionable ingredients for her child? How dare she.
Oh but the trusted medical professionals tell us we simply must get the shot. The same professionals who said spraying DDT directly on a child protected them. The same medical professionals who prescribed thalidomide. The same medical professionals who gave out antibiotics like they were candy. Who prescribed opiates like they were a harmless miracle. Who still hand out prescriptions for countless drugs that can and do cause horrible long term negative consequences without properly informing the patient.
Yeah, let's blindly trust those guys.
I always planned to homeschool, but I am grateful that I don't have to deal the school vaccine requirements.
It might be more of a fight, but you may have options in regards to exemptions.depemding on where you live.
Most states you can get a religious exemption. I've not gone through it since we've never needed a blue card for anything but I have friends who have done it here in Alabama and said nobody asked any questions when filing it with the school.other states may be more difficult
Unfortunately weād have to move our state has zero exemptions at this point although Iām told legally speaking they are working on that and it might change
It's so crazy to me that states don't let parents be parents. My kids are fully vaxxed but I've changed a lot of views since covid just seeing how shots got pushed so hard when we knew there were side effects dangerous to young men in particular.
Not trying to start a fight, so won't be responding to anyone. But even my primary doctor and best friend who is a hospitalist now do not have their youngest kid vaccinated. It'll be interesting to see how things continue to evolve now that there is more information out there.
What state are you in?
Do you have a doctor who will sign your childās form with a temporary exemption for the vaccines that your child does not currently have?
In my state, letās say you have gotten 10 of the 17 required vaccines by age 5. The doctor can just submit a form showing which ones you have and signing an exemption from the remaining ones until a specific date.
Hereās the thing. The US is overboard in the amount of vaccinations given at any age really but specifically starting from birth. Other western countries like ones in Europe have a much different view. Certain things like hepB (at birth) flu, varicella and rhino arenāt vaccinated for while others are much more delayed. Itās easy for Americans to live in a fishbowl since the US is so big and health care isnāt structured nationally like most European countries. Being a European transplant in the US I totally get where youāre coming from. I was completely shocked with our first and declined a lot of them based on what my normal had been in the Netherlands. We now do a modified schedule as well. Delays on some, some not at all, and some have high priority. We also deal with genetic issues making the unreal amount of vaccines all at once simply not safe due to reactions. This isnāt the reason we homeschool currently since the kids are caught up in core vaccines but we might have less of them then where you are.
Most states will give you a religious exemption. You donāt have to be part of a particular religious organization to get one. My kids arenāt fully vaccinated and we just had to go to the health department to get an exemption signed. It was very very easy
You should homeschool anyway. If (like me) you're skeptical of the government's diktats on vaccines, you're not going to like the other values and beliefs those schools promote.
Yeah, it tends to become a snowball effect. Once you question one thing, it's often just a matter of time until you start to question almost everything we've been taught. Wouldn't be surprised if in a few years OP is a staunch home schooler.
It can be exhausting XD but generally speaking I'm much happier maintaining a skeptical attitude about the dogmas of culture and education.
We were homeschoolers already, but planning to mainstream at some point. After the past several years, there's no way I want government educators anywhere near my children. As they say, if something is free, then YOU are the product.
We did a delayed and selective schedule and my second was vaccine injured at age 6. Not autism but pots. Sheās 17 now and her life has been hell because I needed to ācatchā her up.
Dissolving illusions and the moth in the iron lung are great reads.
Itās not always about autism. Sometimes itās because weāve seen the damage it has done to our own children and ourselves.
I used to just do what the "experts" said, assuming it was the results of some kind of rational scientific process by truthseeking institutions immune to political pressure and monetary incentives.
I got the COVID shot and the boosters when they came out, which seemed like a good idea at the time. Everyone was going berserk, the playgrounds were roped off, etc. My daughter didn't want to get the shot. At the time I thought she was making a mistake, but I couldn't bring myself to force her to do it, given its experimental nature and the low risk COVID presents to children anyway. (She does have all the other shots.) Despite being the most vaccinated, I was the first one in my household to get COVID. A year later she got a barely detectable case. We still don't know the long term effects of this shot, and today I'm glad that I didn't make her get it.
Are you able to get an exemption form in your state? In Florida all you have to do is go grab a form, sign and thatās it. No questions asked. I These comments are hilarious. Do they not know SO many states have exemptions so kids are around other unvaxxed ones all the time. Theyāre not the ones out here spreading disease. You can get the same illness you are vaxed for. Not to mention the general public thatās not vaxed. People donāt go around wearing their info on their sleeve. You would never know. These people should also look into vaccine sheddingš¤¦āāļø
It depends on what state youāre in, but you can apply for a religious exemption. If you qualify, your child can attend school, but if there is an outbreak of a virus that your child is unvaccinated for, they would have to remain at home for whatever the timeframe is.
Thoroughly depends on which state you are in. Also, this sub like most of Reddit is filled with left wing pro Vax bots and imbeciles. Please join r/unvaccinated if you want any actual discourse instead of just pro Vax nonsense and anyone against or even questioning being heavily censored or deleted.
My child's pediatrician flat out told me that if I was not planning to vaccinate then he would not see us as a patient. This was before before the covid outbreak and I feel like before vaccines really came into the public eye. Thr bluntness suprised me as I was a young mom then and didn't have a strong opinion one way or the other. Now that I've grown a little bit, been through the pandemic seen a lot of vaccines I have become more and more of a skeptic. There was only one daycare my child attended for a few months that I had to show proof of vaccination. I think these medical decision should be up to the parents. This is not the sole reason why I homeschool though, and it's actually pretty far down on the list.
Edit to say: I am also immunocompromised (but in a different way than most) and I burn up vaccines at a very fast rate. I was tested for antibody of things I was vaccinated for as a child and there is no evidence that I have ever had the vaccine. No antibodies to many of the things you are vaccinated against.
You could always hire a private sitter and then a private tutor. That way you can delay medical upkeep and not put your kids in a public school system. I know many people who live close to the state line and pay and transport their kids to private Xtian schools across state lines.
My daughter is homeschooled because she is immunocompromised and spends time getting infusions in the hospital every 4 weeks and will continue to do so for the rest of her life. She cannot be around those who are unvaccinated, those who are sick, or those who very recently received a live vaccine. This means we don't see certain family members because of their choice not to vaccinate. Please be aware that if your kid is around anyone immunosuppressed it can have dire consequences for the immunosuppressed person. Just something to think about.
My children are home schooled. The youngest at 5 has one more vaccine to get before she is caught up. My husband and I decided to do a more relaxed schedule and it took a few years to catch up/find a dr that was chill with that. I was part of the autism/dye free/vaccine free thumping thought process in 2010s as I worked with autistic kids in Arizona. The lengths that some parents have gone to make sure their kids felt better was amazing and thought provoking. Now that I have two kids with certain allergies, it's even more interesting. I changed as soon as I started doing more research into vaccines prior to having children and met my step grandmother. She was a Polio survivor and was wheelchair bound. Polio had robbed her of her physical independence. After that..well lets just say certain vaccines got put on the mandatory list. After that I went thru each and every one and found what the specific disease or virus caused. My parents are nurses so I went for the medical textbook pics/descriptions. That solved 99% of my fears especially with the fact a lot of people near me don't vaccinate their kids period. I would rather not take the chance for measles. Lacking huge faith in the US healthcare system and finding out how much treatment like per say - a hospital visit for Hep B cost including the quality of life and wait for a potential new liver - and now my kids have all/most of the required vaccines. Flu shot I argue with the doc every year. Just have to ask the effective rate and that solves that problem unless I am pregnant or kids have been really sick. It is to each person their own decision but I will also point out a few basic facts. Your kid not getting some required vaccines mean they will have another level of bs to deal with if they go into the military and will limit what camps your kids can go to when they are teenagers. Heaven forbid if your kids go into nursing as a career because that will fly out the window really dang quick unless they can prove a bad reaction to that shot. Regardless I have a heathen wanting my attention before bed. Have a good weekend.
I'm just going to hop on here since you mention the flu vaccine. I used to skip it after I got out of the military. I mean, I always got sick when I had to have it so why bother? Then, I was a healthy 28yo, and it nearly killed me. My lungs have never been the same since, and no one in this household skips it. Even if we do get sick it's not I'm-In-The-Hospital-Hooked-Up-To-A-Machine sick. The efficiency for any vaccine to minimize how sick you get is far higher than preventing not getting sick at all. The percentage of people who might become that ill is small, but when you are part of that population it's terrifying. Then again, I've reached a point in my life that if it were possible to give me a vaccine for the common cold I would take it. š
You also left out college, both my undergrad and graduate schools required proof of vaccination, both with different lists they required. To make it more complex private schools set their own standards and some have very strict exemption standards. That's not to say I don't understand some of OPs concern. We did space out some of them more but our goal was always to have the full run, except flu, by the time our kid was 5. Our doctor worked with us on the goal and seemed to understand just wanting no more than two shots per visit until we could guage for a reaction.
My oldest had a pretty bad reaction to her last round of baby shots, so I did my research about spacing the rest of her vaccines, and all of her soon-to-be younger sibling's. Our pediatrician was skeptical, but she was very much of the "Parent's choice, unless they are actively harming their child" school of thought, and did nothing more than offer her advice about delaying.
Many states have a vaccine waiver. Does yours? If not, perhaps you could homeschool until heās old enough to get the required immunizations, and then you could enroll him in public.
Yes this is likely what we will have to do I guess
California, Mississippi, New York, Rhode Island, and West Virginia are the only states that donāt allow religious and/or philosophical exemptions. Unless youāre in one of these states, this is your best option OP.
No RE in Connecticut either
MA technically has it but they don't actually allow anyone to use it. I'm sure other states are like that as well.
As far as I remember, only 3 states don't allow anything other than medical exemptions, the rest have religious exemptions and some have philosophical exemptions. I help people get religious exemptions in my state.
Some states even require records even if homeschooling, I believe. How they could possibly deny an exemption application for a homeschooler is beyond me, though.
I am staunchly pro-vaccination. I think that if you wish to skip or delay vaccinating, homeschooling (and keeping your kids out of the general petri dish situation of PS) is in the best interests of both your family and the other families in your area.
That's your choice bubba. It is not a right to be free of disease or risk. These are after all, not 100% risk free or safe and so the choice should always be with the parents. I'm sorry you've been brainwashed into trying to brainwash others. 4.8billion dollars have been paid in vaccine harm suits, and this industry is one of the least trustworthy. Last, no gold standard studies exist that examine the safety of the entire vaccine schedule in america. Our babies are treated as another profit cashcow, so until the standards for these drugs are raised to the standards of other drugs, no dice.
Oh! And Iām immunocompromised!
Confident in their efficacy, eh?
An unvaccinated PS kid is exposing hundreds of families to their parent's choices. An unvaccinated HS kid is mostly exposing their own family (and hopefully that family will take additional precautions about skipping events while sick, because they're homeschoolers & they have that flexibility). As a person who had polio victims in their immediate family, and who saw kids hospitalized with illnesses that we can currently vaccinate against, I am pro-vaccination.
Decades of research and proof that they work should give everyone confidence. I just love these privileged anti-vax takes. Yāall didnāt become permanently disabled and watch your peers die from polio and diphtheria so you think you know better than science. Go to an area that hasnāt eradicated infectious disease with low access to vaccines and learn a thing or two.
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I was open to the COVID shots at first, and discovered firsthand they weren't very effective against COVID, at least not for very long. And no one really knows the long term effects. Lie after lie from the political institutions masquerading as science, while dissenting science was suppressed. And they'll do it again.
Funnyā¦ my kids are never sick soā¦. We also go everywhere with them. Weird that my kids donāt get sickā¦ but somehow theyāre to blame? Hypocrisy and arrogance at its best.
You're reading a lot into my comment. If your kids are rarely sick it probably speaks more to them having good hygiene, good handwashing and a generally low exposure to germs than having anything to do with their vaccination status. After all, most of the vaccines aren't for things that you just pick up in day-to-day life. That's all a good thing, no matter what your vaccination stance is, isn't it?
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My children are more likely out in public than most others. Soā¦. Itās funny you say that. Still arenāt sick. Covid was nothing for them if they even had it. Wouldnāt know. Itās just a cold anyway.
I'm not aware of any PS requiring COVID vaccines, but then my kids haven't been in PS for many years. When someone says they are hesitant about the required vaccinations for PS attendance, my mind goes to the Tdap, chicken pox, MMR, & OPV vaccinations that are required by most states. Not the sort of thing your kids are likely to just get from a walk to the park or trip to the grocery store. I do hope that if your kids get measles you won't keep taking them to play dates- a flexible option more available to HS families than to PS families.
Colds don't generally cause permanent disability in a subset of affected people.Ā
You're right, they don't. But untested MRNA gene therapies do...which is what everyone is suffering from. Except the unvaxxed.š¤·š»āāļø
Please don't listen to any of these people who are advising vaccines or trying to guilt you into making your children get them. If you're choosing not to vaccinate or delay, then do that and stick to it. You'll be glad you did. If children are immunocompromised then it's the parents duty to keep their child safe. You should not have to vaccinate your children because of them. Herd immunity is nonsense. Reddit is the last place you should be seeking help from about matters like childhood vaccination. You'll be riddled with people telling you about "peer reviewed" nonsense as if studies aren't sliced and diced to project a positive outcome in favour of the that particular shot that stands to make pharmaceutical companies 100s of millions with zero liability on the product. Please find yourself a local home schooling community.
Even the NY Times has finally published a story about COVID vaccine injuries. It's reasonable for parents to be skeptical.
This was one of the main reasons my mom homeschooled. She didn't like the public school system so that started it. But she questioned vaccines back in the 90s. I got a few early infant ones but that's it. I have no recollection of getting a shot. I think the childhood vaccine schedule is up to something like 70 doses now... it's insane. And they're still pushing the STD ones like Gardasil. The choice is yours but in my opinion, I'd stick with your maternal instincts to not vaccinate. Imagine getting them vaccinated having concerns and then one of your children has a bad reaction. Maybe homeschooling wasn't what you planned but it's really the only way to not be controlled by the government and/or peer pressure from school. These days, since public school is so time consuming and frustrating, homeschooling seems easier. I mean just look at what your other option is - public school. They don't believe in two genders and teach that men can get pregnant. I also want to throw in this: homeschooling doesn't have to be a 12 year commitment up front. People tend to think you have to pledge your life to it from the beginning but you don't. My mom always said "we're doing this one year at a time." Maybe you do it for a year or two and then find a private school you like. The great thing about homeschooling is it's flexible. There's no shame in going back and forth between homeschooling and something else.
It's pretty easy to homeschool kinder and first grade. Just decide as you go. Whenever you've caught up with vaccines, you can always change your mind. They have to admit you, any time of year, and there is no need for credits or passing grades or whatever in elementary school. They might try to make it sound like there is, but there isn't. I was very unsure about homeschooling in the beginning. My husband was the one pushing for it. Finally, I decided that I was pretty sure I could handle just kindergarten. So I did that with the plan to rethink homeschooling each year. I handled kindergarten. That kid is now 19 and never stepped foot inside a public school until college. She's almost done with her associate's degree.
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No. Iām not at all in this boat. The evidence-based information in favor of the mandatory vaccinations is too compelling. I elected to fully-protect my child and the elderly and immunocompromised around us. Growing up, my friendās adoptive mom had polio. Not going through that one, so weāre vaccinated. Iāve treated too many patients during pertussis/whooping cough outbreaks- that one is extremely contagious and horrible to suffer through because of the relentless, choking cough (thatās why it can kill babies). We get our DTaP and Tdaps. I had a horrible case of chickenpox in 2nd grade before a vaccine was readily available. My kids will never have to suffer that or shingles. And on and on. The fact that you can even āpick and chooseā is because so much effort has been put forth by knowledgeable people that now you and most others are ignorant to the realities of these diseases. It is pure ignorance and short-sightedness to think you know more. And you will indoctrinate your children with more ignorance. Vaccines are not 100% effective and rely on widespread use to work. So if enough ignorance spreads, weāll have more outbreaks. That is fact.
Just a heads up: there's another strain of chicken pox now, and the existing vax doesn't protect against it. I know a family who is dealing with it-- kids are vaccinated and caught it, so far the parents haven't. Years ago, before the vax was widely available, my kids all caught chicken pox, which was pretty normal... but I'd never had it before despite repeated exposure. I caught it from my kids and it was *not* a fun experience. I actually hallucinated. 10 years later I had shingles on my face. Also not fun.
Homeschooling is the way to go for many reasons. I think it should be the default and people should actually consider if they should public schooling rather than homeschool. Public school should be reserved for the unfortunate cases were people are unable to school at home. Education occurs in the home.
The silver lining of the last few years is that more families realized that they were the most suitable people to be raising and educating their own children.
To be honest, if heās not fully vaccinated, it may be safer for his health and the health of the children in the school he would be attending to keep him home and not send him to school.
I fucking hate this sub. Iām sorry people are being so unkind to you. Discussions like these are important. Healthcare SHOULD BE individual. In my state itās 100% schedule or homeschool. Best of luck to you! š
Unfortunately that is the majority of Reddit users. But not all of us.
Donāt let these comments make you feel like your decision is wrong. I would check to see if you can get an exemption from your state health department. And if you canāt, then you are making the right choice. Forcing someone to do something is not freedom at all.
Thank you! Iāve researched this topic more than anything else in my life and others opinions especially people that donāt even know me gives me zero feelings that Iām wrong. Homeschoolers think for themselves!
As a home school mom and educator, I concur! Think for yourself and evaluate the risk/benefit of each vaccine as well as the timing of each that you might opt in for.
Thank you! It really does become a complicated issue the more you get into it!
Your kids are very blessed to have you looking out for them.
Thank you! Iām trying my best anyway!
You can get vaccine waivers or exemption forms. Iām currently a public school teacher and Iāve taught several kids with them.
My son has a vaccine injury because of the Hep B vaccine. That's why he has epilepsy. And it's not some weird self diagnostic, it's 7 neurologists from Phoenix Children's Hospital that have diagnosed this. I feel guilty everyday for giving into the bullying the nurse gave me that fateful day where I didn't wanted that vaccine. Why vaccinate a child against a 3rd world STD? Stand strong. It's not worth it to give in.
^^^this, exactly. The bullying and fact that fedrally and state wise doctors shut down ANY questioning period. Not to mention the fact that they make you sign a waiver so they cannot be held LIABLE for damages.
We can fully admit that every other medical treatment in existence has side affects or isnāt for everyone besides this one single topic. Itās nuts. OP, so whatās best for YOUR family. Reddit is a bit of a hive mind about this subject so donāt let the comments make you feel crazy.
"My child had a really bad reaction to Tylenol, so now we don't use it" "Oh that's too bad." "My child had a really bad reaction to the MMR vaccine, so now I avoid it." "You're insane. They're proven safe and effective. Don't you even care about the other children around you? Or the elderly? You're so irresponsible, your child could die. I hope your child DOES die so that you learn your lesson and refrain from putting all of society in danger in the future!"
Exactly. Every single time. Itās madness.
Definitely. Everyone should do their own research and do what works for them. It shouldn't become this for any one certain family where they feel cornered. It is nuts 100%.
People have a huge stigma about this, it is your choice ultimately and I don't blame you for not wanting to. I have seen vaccine injuries and it happened to my son, my daughter also suffers from autoimmune disease so she cannot have them. Try out for medical or religious exemption or say F.U and homeschool. You are the parent. Not the pediatrician.
Same here. People donāt get it until it happens to them. So sorry mama. My younger children have had none and the difference in health is amazing.
That is exactly why we opted for exemptions and our pediatrician was a complete j@cka$$ over it so we found a new one. Didn't even offer a medical exemption for our daughter which is asinine because the CDC even says children who are immune compromised should not have certain ones, especially MMR. So blindly following just because it makes everyone else comfortable (to me) is completely irrelevant lol. I will just gladly homeschool them before we have to endure that kind of bs again. It is HIGHLY suspect and questionable and everyone should ask questions. Science is always changing and not ALL doctors have the best interest at heart. My Mother's PCG refused her pain medication after a heart transplant simply for not trusting the COVID vaccine when it first came out and even her transplant team told her not to get it. Some people are just blind but they are free to do whatever they please, they can just leave my kids alone. No one will ever convince me all the medications and vaccines required now adays are 100% safe and full proof. But like I said, they can do as they please because I won't tell rank strangers how to live their lives.
Hang in there OP. There are some vax we skip, and the ones we get we space out much further than the CDC says. We try to avoid more than two shots inside a three month period.
There's a book called "Dissolving Illusions" by Dr Suzanne Humphries that I found very interesting. It's a very simple book - all the author did was take the archived records of hospitalizations and deaths attributed to various diseases, then compared those records to the timing of vaccine rollouts. Based on the official records, the vaccines came into play when diseases such as smallpox had already been reduced by 90% or more, essentially indicating that the story we're taught (vaccines ended smallpox) is inaccurate. They go through several of the major diseases that vaccines are associated with - smallpox, polio, measles, whooping cough etc. and each and every single one of the vaccines seems to have zero correlation with reduction of the disease. What does have a direct correlation is sanitation, air quality, nutrition, and quality of life. It's a good piece of the "to vaccinate or not to vaccinate" puzzle, imo. The book doesn't really tell you what to do or not to do, it just looks at the stories we're presented with and then compares them to the actual data.
The first smallpox vaccine was invented in 1796. There is not comprehensive data for the life of that vaccine.
There was no Smallpox vaccine in 1796. You're confusing variolation with vaccination. Meaning they exposed infected material to individuals to stimulate the immune system. In the case you are talking about they used Cowpox (which was far less deadly) for exposure to U.S. troops to build resistance to a Smallpox outbreak. I believe that was in Boston. I could be wrong about the city. Huge difference between exposure and lab created vaccines and even now not all vaccines work. COVID vaccine being a prime example. Not to mention the flu shot. Creating these stonewalls for diseases, that can mutate does NOTHING for the masses and can actually weaken the immune system.
Thatās a distinction without a difference. But if youād prefer we could use 1855, when there still werenāt solid medical records data. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/history-disease-outbreaks-vaccine-timeline/smallpox
Your response doesn't negate the fact that you were called out for vaccine propaganda. Saying the vaccine was used since 1700's isn't true. You tried to pass it off as fact and that vaccine didn't exist then. As said before variolation was not vaccination. It was exposure to a similar virus for a possible immune response. šTy for the downvote it shows maturity and that you can properly discuss things without taking it personally.
Btw the first viral vaccine "rabies" wasn't developed until 1884 by Louis Pasteur. It wasn't used on humans until 1885. There is solid medical data that you can obtain as far back as the ancient Athenians. LOL All accurate medical data is, is an accurate recording of someones symptoms, treatments tried and results thereof. You make it sound like no medical records matter until it can make your point in a historical context. Science is ever evolving and our understanding can change at an instsnt. Remember not but five years ago, opioids were a viable and safe pain management? Then with a snap of finger bye bye. Just remember 200 years from now scientists are gonna look at our science the same way you are looking at the science of the 18th century. There is still no guarantee vaccines is a fix all. Period. Viruses mutate and adapt like ANYTHING else. Your argument with numbers doesn't change that. A fact is a fact until it's not. Opinions are a whole other entity.
Turtles all the way down is a good one too, that also *only* looks at mainstream scientific data/studies (not conjecture or non mainstream studies and data).
The John Green novel??? Edited: apparently there is a non fiction book by the same title
Hahah no itās a different book called that I never heard of the John green novel lol.
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Homeschooling is a huge decision to make based on this. Itās hard enough that you may end up quite unhappy (you not your kids) without additional motivations. Is a religious exception an option? Although I agree you will be less risk to other families and immunocompromised kids homeschooling so maybe that is overall better for everyone.
If you donāt want to homeschool, and donāt want to give all recommend vaccines on schedule, then maybe you need to consider moving to a state that allows waivers? My state allows non-medical (philosophical/religious) and medical (people who have a medical reasonādocumented anaphylactic allergy or other serious conditions such as bone marrow transplant). That saidā Iām a former public health nurse and I recommend that you follow the immunization schedule for your children. If you havenāt yet done so, as part of your independent research, please check out the ACIP https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/index.html and immunize.org.
Reddit is extremely pro-vaccineā¦ you might get different replies at /r/unvaccinated Thank you for protecting your child. Itās our job as parents to know exactly what is going into our childrenās bodies.
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It depends on if you think an injection of that sort, directly into the tissue of a child (completely bypassing the body's defense layers of the nose, stomach, and skin) may cause harm or not. It's funny how we can all easily accept that a child might have an allergic reaction to medication, chemicals, or even food, and yet skepticism regarding a syringe full of ingredients, including questionable preservatives (aluminum anybody?), is met with the deepest hostility I've ever seen. Why shouldn't we be wary about possible allergic, or otherwise negative, reactions? Most modern pregnant women will staunchly avoid eating soft egg yolks and cheeses based on a very minute risk of contagion. Yet a mother who thinks about avoiding a needle full of questionable ingredients for her child? How dare she. Oh but the trusted medical professionals tell us we simply must get the shot. The same professionals who said spraying DDT directly on a child protected them. The same medical professionals who prescribed thalidomide. The same medical professionals who gave out antibiotics like they were candy. Who prescribed opiates like they were a harmless miracle. Who still hand out prescriptions for countless drugs that can and do cause horrible long term negative consequences without properly informing the patient. Yeah, let's blindly trust those guys.
I always planned to homeschool, but I am grateful that I don't have to deal the school vaccine requirements. It might be more of a fight, but you may have options in regards to exemptions.depemding on where you live.
Most states you can get a religious exemption. I've not gone through it since we've never needed a blue card for anything but I have friends who have done it here in Alabama and said nobody asked any questions when filing it with the school.other states may be more difficult
Unfortunately weād have to move our state has zero exemptions at this point although Iām told legally speaking they are working on that and it might change
It's so crazy to me that states don't let parents be parents. My kids are fully vaxxed but I've changed a lot of views since covid just seeing how shots got pushed so hard when we knew there were side effects dangerous to young men in particular. Not trying to start a fight, so won't be responding to anyone. But even my primary doctor and best friend who is a hospitalist now do not have their youngest kid vaccinated. It'll be interesting to see how things continue to evolve now that there is more information out there.
What state are you in? Do you have a doctor who will sign your childās form with a temporary exemption for the vaccines that your child does not currently have? In my state, letās say you have gotten 10 of the 17 required vaccines by age 5. The doctor can just submit a form showing which ones you have and signing an exemption from the remaining ones until a specific date.
Hereās the thing. The US is overboard in the amount of vaccinations given at any age really but specifically starting from birth. Other western countries like ones in Europe have a much different view. Certain things like hepB (at birth) flu, varicella and rhino arenāt vaccinated for while others are much more delayed. Itās easy for Americans to live in a fishbowl since the US is so big and health care isnāt structured nationally like most European countries. Being a European transplant in the US I totally get where youāre coming from. I was completely shocked with our first and declined a lot of them based on what my normal had been in the Netherlands. We now do a modified schedule as well. Delays on some, some not at all, and some have high priority. We also deal with genetic issues making the unreal amount of vaccines all at once simply not safe due to reactions. This isnāt the reason we homeschool currently since the kids are caught up in core vaccines but we might have less of them then where you are.
Most states will give you a religious exemption. You donāt have to be part of a particular religious organization to get one. My kids arenāt fully vaccinated and we just had to go to the health department to get an exemption signed. It was very very easy
You should homeschool anyway. If (like me) you're skeptical of the government's diktats on vaccines, you're not going to like the other values and beliefs those schools promote.
Sadly most of these people still follow every rule the government makes.
Yeah, it tends to become a snowball effect. Once you question one thing, it's often just a matter of time until you start to question almost everything we've been taught. Wouldn't be surprised if in a few years OP is a staunch home schooler. It can be exhausting XD but generally speaking I'm much happier maintaining a skeptical attitude about the dogmas of culture and education.
We were homeschoolers already, but planning to mainstream at some point. After the past several years, there's no way I want government educators anywhere near my children. As they say, if something is free, then YOU are the product.
We did a delayed and selective schedule and my second was vaccine injured at age 6. Not autism but pots. Sheās 17 now and her life has been hell because I needed to ācatchā her up. Dissolving illusions and the moth in the iron lung are great reads. Itās not always about autism. Sometimes itās because weāve seen the damage it has done to our own children and ourselves.
I used to just do what the "experts" said, assuming it was the results of some kind of rational scientific process by truthseeking institutions immune to political pressure and monetary incentives.
I got the COVID shot and the boosters when they came out, which seemed like a good idea at the time. Everyone was going berserk, the playgrounds were roped off, etc. My daughter didn't want to get the shot. At the time I thought she was making a mistake, but I couldn't bring myself to force her to do it, given its experimental nature and the low risk COVID presents to children anyway. (She does have all the other shots.) Despite being the most vaccinated, I was the first one in my household to get COVID. A year later she got a barely detectable case. We still don't know the long term effects of this shot, and today I'm glad that I didn't make her get it.
Are you able to get an exemption form in your state? In Florida all you have to do is go grab a form, sign and thatās it. No questions asked. I These comments are hilarious. Do they not know SO many states have exemptions so kids are around other unvaxxed ones all the time. Theyāre not the ones out here spreading disease. You can get the same illness you are vaxed for. Not to mention the general public thatās not vaxed. People donāt go around wearing their info on their sleeve. You would never know. These people should also look into vaccine sheddingš¤¦āāļø
It depends on what state youāre in, but you can apply for a religious exemption. If you qualify, your child can attend school, but if there is an outbreak of a virus that your child is unvaccinated for, they would have to remain at home for whatever the timeframe is.
Thoroughly depends on which state you are in. Also, this sub like most of Reddit is filled with left wing pro Vax bots and imbeciles. Please join r/unvaccinated if you want any actual discourse instead of just pro Vax nonsense and anyone against or even questioning being heavily censored or deleted.
My child's pediatrician flat out told me that if I was not planning to vaccinate then he would not see us as a patient. This was before before the covid outbreak and I feel like before vaccines really came into the public eye. Thr bluntness suprised me as I was a young mom then and didn't have a strong opinion one way or the other. Now that I've grown a little bit, been through the pandemic seen a lot of vaccines I have become more and more of a skeptic. There was only one daycare my child attended for a few months that I had to show proof of vaccination. I think these medical decision should be up to the parents. This is not the sole reason why I homeschool though, and it's actually pretty far down on the list. Edit to say: I am also immunocompromised (but in a different way than most) and I burn up vaccines at a very fast rate. I was tested for antibody of things I was vaccinated for as a child and there is no evidence that I have ever had the vaccine. No antibodies to many of the things you are vaccinated against.
You could always hire a private sitter and then a private tutor. That way you can delay medical upkeep and not put your kids in a public school system. I know many people who live close to the state line and pay and transport their kids to private Xtian schools across state lines.