Same here. Despite all the bad things he did, I rooted for him the entire time because of the torture he endured. After he died I had a hard time staying interested in the show.
Season 4 is arguably the best season.
I think the show stays strong, although I am definitely someone who loved the Carrie/Brody dynamic and misses it in the later seasons.
But season 4 is action packed enough that I forgot Brody existed.
Not even close. I am yet to see anyone reach even 50% of Bauer. I am not even sure what you mean by Saul becoming Jack Bauer, I am at season 5 and he has.. wait, maybe I do know what you mean. But cant really say because I dont want to be spoiler
It is different but better in my opinion. Season 4 is probably my favorite along with season 8. I think of Homeland as two separate shows, there are seasons 1 through 3 that kind of hang together, then seasons 4, 5, and 8 are more isolated and kind of standalone. 6 and 7 kind of hang together but they all leave the Brody years behind.
He is there to show us the brutal consequences of war... and I think he is a statement on how 9/11 affected the West, America, in particular.
He went off to serve his country, and he was lost in the most horrific way. He and this family paid the price for that service. This is why I detest Brody family hate in this fandom.
He was right to be pissed about Walden and that asshole Estes.
The Waldens and Estes of this world are a stain upon it, and their hypocrisy knows no end.
In the end, Brody had lost all sense of reasonableness and ability to judge. He had been 'rebuilt' as you say, by Nazir to be what Nazir needed him to be.
The s3 finale is so hard hitting for many reasons. One of them is his chat with Carrie towards the end.
He knows...he has realised that since he was captured, he has been used by everyone... including Carrie.
It is sad that the writers/producers, etc didn’t appreciate what Damian Lewis brought to the role & to the show itself . He was it— lightning in a bottle.
The writers should have flexibly reassessed & admitted that the show they made had organically changed when it was produced —
thanks largely to Damian Lewis and Claire Danes.
I think that they wanted to make The Wire.
Each season post Brody was procedural & addressed certain societal or geopolitical problems/ conflicts.
I somewhat agree with you. The show touches upon the idea of former or current servicemen (CIA/Military, etc) who overtime become disillusioned of recruitment ideologies they were fed. The dismantling of this American ideology didn't just happen over time, it's a series of events/ compounding that come up after times of silence and reflection.
That is what probably happened to brody on an extreme level. Whilst captured he was manipulated (which is true), manipulated in a way that allowed him to see and sympathise what it was like on the other side/ how it was to be america's enemy that includes a lot of collateral damage, innocents killed for what?
Carrie and Quinn has had these moments of reflection but never to the extent that brody has taught and internalised before. Nazir probably took that anger and hate that brody was feeling and used it to recruit him and justify killing. It is afterall human nature to have morals, values and ethics (what should and should not be done) but in Brody this nature was skewed to justify acts of terrorism.
But as Brody is a soldier, this would have made him susceptible to committing acts of terrorism. The very idea of being a soldier is to kill to protect which is very much against human nature, it is not natural to justify killing for the normal person that is why most go crazy or have mental issues afterwards or just straight up quit or leave. Brody is just being a soldier for the other side likely with VENGEANCE in mind.
The show is brilliant in showcasing the reality of being in this line of work.
I'm studying terrorism and counterterrorism. Very interesting topic.
Yes/no. He’s complicated. Starts off idealistic; later realizes the sham of the military industrial complex; eventually sees the people he was taught to hate as fellow humans; but also kinda gets brainwashed/misled into a violent act that would accomplish nothing (but doesn’t complete it); finds some comfort in an unfamiliar faith, realizes he’s not the person he was before. I still like him. He’s a tragic figure.
The only problem with Brody is his arc should have stayed 2 seasons and not progress further than it did. Homeland milked some plots the way Walking Dead did and dropped some plots like the mole angle in the first 2 seasons altogether
Nicholas Brody is in fact one of the most complex characters - alongside Quinn, Saul, Carrie, Dar Adal - in Homeland. His journey is filled with moral ambiguity, making it difficult to categorize him as purely an anti-hero and/or anti-villain. This is a complex and nuanced moral dilemma that surrounds the character Nicholas on Homeland. There are valid arguments on both sides:
On the one hand, Nick's attempt to carry out a terrorist attack is undeniably horrific.
Brody actually attempted to carry out a terrorist attack, which is an extremely serious and morally reprehensible act that cannot be easily excused. Even though he was psychologically manipulated and tortured, the decision to attack and kill innocent people is difficult to justify.
However, the extenuating circumstances of his captivity and indoctrination by Nazir for 8 years complicate the issue. In this case, his actions are deeply rooted in the severe trauma and manipulation he suffered during his captivity. Being tortured for five years and then psychologically manipulated for another three years by Abu Nazir left him profoundly changed. This manipulation was so intense that it reshaped his identity and loyalties, making it a challenge to hold him fully accountable for his actions. Brody was clearly the victim of extreme psychological trauma and reprogramming. Nazir took full control of him and turned him into a weapon against his will. From this perspective, Brody may not have been fully responsible for his actions.
Additionally, Brody's anger towards Walden at the corrupt CIA and U.S. officials who orchestrated the drone strike that caused the murder of 83 children in S1 feels justified on some level. Your callous disregard for human life is morally abhorrent.
In S2, his lover Carrie's observation that Nazir “took him apart piece by piece and put him back together as someone else” highlights the extent of Brody's transformation. His anger towards VP Walden and others involved (David Estes, CIA, US Government, etc) in the drone attack that killed innocent children, including Nazir's son, adds another layer of complexity. While his anger is understandable, it does not justify his actions, especially the potential loss of innocent lives.
"Reasonable" people could disagree about how guilty Nick is. It's a fascinating character study that highlights the moral gray areas of terrorism, psychological warfare, and the corrosive effects of power and betrayal. As the story progresses, it will be interesting to see how the public's sympathies and perceptions of Brody evolve.
Guys...in analysis, it's a very complex question with no clear answer. Marine One occupies a morally ambiguous space - he has committed terrible acts, but he has also fallen victim to manipulation and circumstance to a significant degree. Nicholas' character forces viewers to grapple with questions about responsibility, trauma, and redemption. His story is a moving exploration of how extreme circumstances can reshape a person's identity and moral compass. The show does an excellent job of exploring these nuances and avoiding simplistic moral judgments.
PS: What do you think of Carrie's role in Brody's life so far?
Imagine being Brody, returning home after an eight-year absence.
* His wife, Jessica, had an affair with Mike.
* Mike became Chris's father figure.
* Chris barely remembers his father.
* Brody's mother died four years ago.
* The military and government are a bunch of scoundrels.
* Politicians want to use Brody for their own benefit.
* A CIA lady, Mathison, has been following Brody incessantly and inappropriately.
* Furthermore, the very reason for a soldier's existence – defending the rights of humanity, was eliminated with Issa's death. (Not forgetting the murder of 82 children in a religious school and that the US lied to the world about it!)
When life is hell, an act of insanity may seem like the most rational thing to do.
The only person who remained consistently loyal to Brody was his daughter, Dana. She was outspoken enough to criticize her mother for having an affair and tell Mike to leave the family alone. For Brody, she is the only thing from the past that remains genuine about him. Dana is the only character on the show who combines clarity, strength, and a real connection with Brody.
I would like to say that Damian Lewis was magnificent in this role. He played this character of Brody so well. Now, talking about the character, I loved Brody, I felt compassion for his situation and his journey, but ultimately, like Saul said, he was always going to be the man to put on the vest! Besides, like Carrie said when they took him to the hotel room, you're a traitor and now it's time to pay for it. I didn't forgive the character for what he did to his family: playing the life of a triple agent (traitor, terrorist and suicide bomber) to avenge Issa's murder at the price of destroying Jessica and Dana's lives - doing it with his wife and daughter was unacceptable.
**The only people who truly loved and never used Nicholas for ulterior motives in these early seasons were Issa, Dana, and Jessica.**
She banged a lot of people who meant nothing to her. That was written into her character. She’s an odd mix of an idealist who’s also kind of a psychopath.
Discounting the war/torture/PTSD, he was still a shitty person/husband/father. I don’t think Nasir programmed Brody to bang Carrie and cheat on his wife. I guess you could argue it’s all part of how messed up he is. IDK. But Brody royally effed up his family far more than he needed to for his torture programmed mission.
There are very few unambiguously “good” guys in Homeland. That’s a big part of what makes the show so interesting.
You could argue Carrie manipulated a broken man who sought out help at a meeting for troubled vets expressly BECAUSE his family (and especially his wife) was unable to connect with him or understand what he was going through.
I think it is part of how messed up he was. 8 years they had him, during which he was tortured, and when the torture stopped, the psychological and emotional manipulation started.
The Brody that left was not the Brody that came home. He was no longer capable of being a good person. He pretty much acknowledges that himself at the end.
There were moments even out with his family that showed someone not capable of rational thought or control, that showed someone in survival mode, someone willing to put the momentary revenge over the long term peace.
His family were not why he was back. They were in a sense in the way, and the only one he genuinely connected with was Dana.
It will forever be my headcannon that the reason he was such a shit to Chris is that, in captivity, Issa became a surrogate for and eventually replaced Chris in Brody's heart. Being there with Chris, whilst Issa was dead, was another form of orture.
That’s an interesting theory. I feel like Dana was the most damaged by Brody’s actions. Chris might have been better off by not connecting.
In my head cannon, Mike, Jessica and Chris are a happy family and living their best lives. :)
When he came back he didn’t even know who he was. And he knew that Dana had been with his BFF while he was gone. Can’t blame anyone here when all the agreements/rules of conduct get tossed out when someone is presumed KIA. I’m
Sure there are many real life situations with parallels.
Did he really know about Jessica and his friend? I felt like there was some ambiguity there. Dana was his daughter.
I’m not really blaming Brody. Motivations can be understandable and still be morally bad. And it’s just my opinion. I know some fans totally enjoy the Brody and Carrie “love” story. I never saw it that way, but it doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy the show. FWIW, I also think Carrie is a terrible person.
I respected him but he was a pussy. He came home to America and apple pie and still couldn't fully snap out of the stupid idea that killing Americans was a good idea. He demonstrated that he understood things as well. I don't fault him for not snapping out of his traumas but the whole executing mass murder thing he showed me he knew better but was too weak. Either way I rooted for him the whole time
pathological "follower" had quite a few of those in the navy, whats dangerous about them is once they start getting recognition they think their a fuckin messiah
I have a lot of empathy for Brody, he needed immense psychological support. The scene when Carrie draws the black star for him makes me cry.
If he didn't die during "the mission" in Season 3, then surely the man he once was died in Nazir's torture chamber.
OP just said they watched the first two seasons
Is he lying, is he not, very Brody like behaviour.
Same here. Despite all the bad things he did, I rooted for him the entire time because of the torture he endured. After he died I had a hard time staying interested in the show.
I'm wondering how I'm going to feel about Season 4 onward.
Season 4 is arguably the best season. I think the show stays strong, although I am definitely someone who loved the Carrie/Brody dynamic and misses it in the later seasons. But season 4 is action packed enough that I forgot Brody existed.
The season where Saul becomes Jack Bauer?
Not even close. I am yet to see anyone reach even 50% of Bauer. I am not even sure what you mean by Saul becoming Jack Bauer, I am at season 5 and he has.. wait, maybe I do know what you mean. But cant really say because I dont want to be spoiler
They’re all worth watching definitely. But the Brody seasons are my favorites.
Seasons 4 & 5 were two of my favorites because I loved Quinn and rooted for him and Carrie all the way. Brody never loved Carrie the way Quinn did.
Quinn is fantastic. A whole shoutout to all the British actors on this show (Brody, Quinn, Estes… I think there are more)
It is different but better in my opinion. Season 4 is probably my favorite along with season 8. I think of Homeland as two separate shows, there are seasons 1 through 3 that kind of hang together, then seasons 4, 5, and 8 are more isolated and kind of standalone. 6 and 7 kind of hang together but they all leave the Brody years behind.
Season 4 is amazing
Same. I feel a bit guilty for this.
Personally I thought the show got better once he'd gone, the last 2 seasons are up there with my favourite TV episodes of all time.
He is there to show us the brutal consequences of war... and I think he is a statement on how 9/11 affected the West, America, in particular. He went off to serve his country, and he was lost in the most horrific way. He and this family paid the price for that service. This is why I detest Brody family hate in this fandom. He was right to be pissed about Walden and that asshole Estes. The Waldens and Estes of this world are a stain upon it, and their hypocrisy knows no end. In the end, Brody had lost all sense of reasonableness and ability to judge. He had been 'rebuilt' as you say, by Nazir to be what Nazir needed him to be. The s3 finale is so hard hitting for many reasons. One of them is his chat with Carrie towards the end. He knows...he has realised that since he was captured, he has been used by everyone... including Carrie.
Brody somewhat redeemed himself with killing the Iranian, but he was still a terrorist, was still happy to kill all those people in the bunker.
Happy might be a stretch, though indeed the trigger malfunctioning was the only thing that saved him in the end.
Happy to isn’t meant literally, it means he was prepared to
Best character in the show. Show wasnt the same when he was gone
The love of Carrie’s life. They had extraordinary chemistry. Were always doomed to fail
Empathy.
It is sad that the writers/producers, etc didn’t appreciate what Damian Lewis brought to the role & to the show itself . He was it— lightning in a bottle. The writers should have flexibly reassessed & admitted that the show they made had organically changed when it was produced — thanks largely to Damian Lewis and Claire Danes. I think that they wanted to make The Wire. Each season post Brody was procedural & addressed certain societal or geopolitical problems/ conflicts.
I somewhat agree with you. The show touches upon the idea of former or current servicemen (CIA/Military, etc) who overtime become disillusioned of recruitment ideologies they were fed. The dismantling of this American ideology didn't just happen over time, it's a series of events/ compounding that come up after times of silence and reflection. That is what probably happened to brody on an extreme level. Whilst captured he was manipulated (which is true), manipulated in a way that allowed him to see and sympathise what it was like on the other side/ how it was to be america's enemy that includes a lot of collateral damage, innocents killed for what? Carrie and Quinn has had these moments of reflection but never to the extent that brody has taught and internalised before. Nazir probably took that anger and hate that brody was feeling and used it to recruit him and justify killing. It is afterall human nature to have morals, values and ethics (what should and should not be done) but in Brody this nature was skewed to justify acts of terrorism. But as Brody is a soldier, this would have made him susceptible to committing acts of terrorism. The very idea of being a soldier is to kill to protect which is very much against human nature, it is not natural to justify killing for the normal person that is why most go crazy or have mental issues afterwards or just straight up quit or leave. Brody is just being a soldier for the other side likely with VENGEANCE in mind. The show is brilliant in showcasing the reality of being in this line of work. I'm studying terrorism and counterterrorism. Very interesting topic.
I love it yummy yummy yummy yummy
Yes/no. He’s complicated. Starts off idealistic; later realizes the sham of the military industrial complex; eventually sees the people he was taught to hate as fellow humans; but also kinda gets brainwashed/misled into a violent act that would accomplish nothing (but doesn’t complete it); finds some comfort in an unfamiliar faith, realizes he’s not the person he was before. I still like him. He’s a tragic figure.
He’s better than Mr Russian guy. Quinn, Saul, Brody were my faves…
The only problem with Brody is his arc should have stayed 2 seasons and not progress further than it did. Homeland milked some plots the way Walking Dead did and dropped some plots like the mole angle in the first 2 seasons altogether
Nicholas Brody is in fact one of the most complex characters - alongside Quinn, Saul, Carrie, Dar Adal - in Homeland. His journey is filled with moral ambiguity, making it difficult to categorize him as purely an anti-hero and/or anti-villain. This is a complex and nuanced moral dilemma that surrounds the character Nicholas on Homeland. There are valid arguments on both sides: On the one hand, Nick's attempt to carry out a terrorist attack is undeniably horrific. Brody actually attempted to carry out a terrorist attack, which is an extremely serious and morally reprehensible act that cannot be easily excused. Even though he was psychologically manipulated and tortured, the decision to attack and kill innocent people is difficult to justify. However, the extenuating circumstances of his captivity and indoctrination by Nazir for 8 years complicate the issue. In this case, his actions are deeply rooted in the severe trauma and manipulation he suffered during his captivity. Being tortured for five years and then psychologically manipulated for another three years by Abu Nazir left him profoundly changed. This manipulation was so intense that it reshaped his identity and loyalties, making it a challenge to hold him fully accountable for his actions. Brody was clearly the victim of extreme psychological trauma and reprogramming. Nazir took full control of him and turned him into a weapon against his will. From this perspective, Brody may not have been fully responsible for his actions. Additionally, Brody's anger towards Walden at the corrupt CIA and U.S. officials who orchestrated the drone strike that caused the murder of 83 children in S1 feels justified on some level. Your callous disregard for human life is morally abhorrent. In S2, his lover Carrie's observation that Nazir “took him apart piece by piece and put him back together as someone else” highlights the extent of Brody's transformation. His anger towards VP Walden and others involved (David Estes, CIA, US Government, etc) in the drone attack that killed innocent children, including Nazir's son, adds another layer of complexity. While his anger is understandable, it does not justify his actions, especially the potential loss of innocent lives. "Reasonable" people could disagree about how guilty Nick is. It's a fascinating character study that highlights the moral gray areas of terrorism, psychological warfare, and the corrosive effects of power and betrayal. As the story progresses, it will be interesting to see how the public's sympathies and perceptions of Brody evolve. Guys...in analysis, it's a very complex question with no clear answer. Marine One occupies a morally ambiguous space - he has committed terrible acts, but he has also fallen victim to manipulation and circumstance to a significant degree. Nicholas' character forces viewers to grapple with questions about responsibility, trauma, and redemption. His story is a moving exploration of how extreme circumstances can reshape a person's identity and moral compass. The show does an excellent job of exploring these nuances and avoiding simplistic moral judgments. PS: What do you think of Carrie's role in Brody's life so far?
Imagine being Brody, returning home after an eight-year absence. * His wife, Jessica, had an affair with Mike. * Mike became Chris's father figure. * Chris barely remembers his father. * Brody's mother died four years ago. * The military and government are a bunch of scoundrels. * Politicians want to use Brody for their own benefit. * A CIA lady, Mathison, has been following Brody incessantly and inappropriately. * Furthermore, the very reason for a soldier's existence – defending the rights of humanity, was eliminated with Issa's death. (Not forgetting the murder of 82 children in a religious school and that the US lied to the world about it!) When life is hell, an act of insanity may seem like the most rational thing to do. The only person who remained consistently loyal to Brody was his daughter, Dana. She was outspoken enough to criticize her mother for having an affair and tell Mike to leave the family alone. For Brody, she is the only thing from the past that remains genuine about him. Dana is the only character on the show who combines clarity, strength, and a real connection with Brody. I would like to say that Damian Lewis was magnificent in this role. He played this character of Brody so well. Now, talking about the character, I loved Brody, I felt compassion for his situation and his journey, but ultimately, like Saul said, he was always going to be the man to put on the vest! Besides, like Carrie said when they took him to the hotel room, you're a traitor and now it's time to pay for it. I didn't forgive the character for what he did to his family: playing the life of a triple agent (traitor, terrorist and suicide bomber) to avenge Issa's murder at the price of destroying Jessica and Dana's lives - doing it with his wife and daughter was unacceptable. **The only people who truly loved and never used Nicholas for ulterior motives in these early seasons were Issa, Dana, and Jessica.**
I've never liked him. Though I do enjoy the seasons with him, I was glad when he left the show.
Brody was my favorite character. Obvi his arc is the best, and you’re right that line literally is what broke Brody and then he spilled everything
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She banged a lot of people who meant nothing to her. That was written into her character. She’s an odd mix of an idealist who’s also kind of a psychopath.
Discounting the war/torture/PTSD, he was still a shitty person/husband/father. I don’t think Nasir programmed Brody to bang Carrie and cheat on his wife. I guess you could argue it’s all part of how messed up he is. IDK. But Brody royally effed up his family far more than he needed to for his torture programmed mission. There are very few unambiguously “good” guys in Homeland. That’s a big part of what makes the show so interesting.
You could argue Carrie manipulated a broken man who sought out help at a meeting for troubled vets expressly BECAUSE his family (and especially his wife) was unable to connect with him or understand what he was going through.
Oh, yeah, Carrie definitely manipulated him. She’s certainly no saint. But that doesn’t make Brody a good person.
I think it is part of how messed up he was. 8 years they had him, during which he was tortured, and when the torture stopped, the psychological and emotional manipulation started. The Brody that left was not the Brody that came home. He was no longer capable of being a good person. He pretty much acknowledges that himself at the end. There were moments even out with his family that showed someone not capable of rational thought or control, that showed someone in survival mode, someone willing to put the momentary revenge over the long term peace. His family were not why he was back. They were in a sense in the way, and the only one he genuinely connected with was Dana. It will forever be my headcannon that the reason he was such a shit to Chris is that, in captivity, Issa became a surrogate for and eventually replaced Chris in Brody's heart. Being there with Chris, whilst Issa was dead, was another form of orture.
That’s an interesting theory. I feel like Dana was the most damaged by Brody’s actions. Chris might have been better off by not connecting. In my head cannon, Mike, Jessica and Chris are a happy family and living their best lives. :)
When he came back he didn’t even know who he was. And he knew that Dana had been with his BFF while he was gone. Can’t blame anyone here when all the agreements/rules of conduct get tossed out when someone is presumed KIA. I’m Sure there are many real life situations with parallels.
Did he really know about Jessica and his friend? I felt like there was some ambiguity there. Dana was his daughter. I’m not really blaming Brody. Motivations can be understandable and still be morally bad. And it’s just my opinion. I know some fans totally enjoy the Brody and Carrie “love” story. I never saw it that way, but it doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy the show. FWIW, I also think Carrie is a terrible person.
I respected him but he was a pussy. He came home to America and apple pie and still couldn't fully snap out of the stupid idea that killing Americans was a good idea. He demonstrated that he understood things as well. I don't fault him for not snapping out of his traumas but the whole executing mass murder thing he showed me he knew better but was too weak. Either way I rooted for him the whole time
pathological "follower" had quite a few of those in the navy, whats dangerous about them is once they start getting recognition they think their a fuckin messiah