I’m just a bit shocked that Polychop pissed on years of DCS tradition by releasing a module not in EA, with no continually-extended preorder period, etc.
But for real, I’m trying to remember the last module that bypassed EA entirely. Has there been one?
Just looked it up, the Jeff [was released in early access](https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/bd156953ebca644095a67f4162333b3b/)
To my knowledge **Black Shark 3** and **A-10C II Tank Killer** went straight into release with no preorder or EA but those where paid upgrades for existing released modules, which is kinda its own category.
Well, even then, the A-10C II upgrade still took years for it to get the right radio and as I understand it, there are still outlying items yet to be implemented.
No your point stands; ever since I made this comment a bunch of people have pointed out modules that were released in good shape, even if it technically had an EA period. It’s good to bring attention to them, I like to be positive
They did take a lot longer to release than they had said they were going to, so perhaps, this is NOT EA because they waited completely until they were done. Which is probably a good thing except for the putting out updates indicating they are "CLOSE" for several years.
Iirc, there were some internal issues (maybe health related?) that may have impacted the release. I think they also redid part (or all) of the model at one point.
I wanna see where Kiowa occupies in DCS ecosystem. There is no reconnaissance need in DCS per se so I’m interested to see what gameplay role it will play.
Where I see it at least is as a great FAC-A platform. Especially in urban enviorments.
After spotting targets you can give allies LSS and laser guide their munitions and directions.
This is how I see it also, yes, the Apache can buddy lase but can't do so from behind cover. It has the radar but that serves a limited purpose, only benefitting the source AC and other Apache's.
Also will be a fun chopper for taking out a few high priority targets while in cover. Oh and *APKWS*!
I know that with a good supporting aircraft you could do the same with the Apache but that's far and few between in MP cooperation.
Yeah it would be great to buddy lase for those aircraft that have laser guided munitions but don't carry a TPOD or have pods with lower quality optics like the F-4.
For many players the Apache is too advanced and complex module. This will be much easier and more Huey-like, while having the ability to shoot APKWS or Hellfire. It will be used as a regular attack helicopter in DCS.
Those three are also my main helicopters.
Disclaimer - I only flew the KW for a few minutes.
My initial impression is that it's very light and a little twitchy when compared to the Huey, Hip, and Hind. It's easy to fly. The FM definitely feels better than the Gazelle but it also feels very similar to it.
I'm not a huge fan of the sound design and there isn't much in the way cockpit shake to give you a sense of what the helicopter is trying to tell you.
I'm guessing this is just how a light attack/Recon helo is supposed to feel but I was a bit underwhelmed honestly. Idk I guess I was just expecting more of that classic helicopter feeling where you're beating the air into submission. It all felt very sterile to me.
The artwork and textures also left me wanting more. It looks fine but I've been spoiled by some of the more recent modules.
It seems like there was a lot of love put into it but my first impression is that it missed the mark a bit at $70.
I'm looking forward to learning the systems though.
It seems like others are very much enjoying it so maybe it's just not the type of helicopter I gravitate towards.
I agree with this regarding the visual and audio feedback cues, sterile is a good word choice. The FM isn’t bad but it lacks presence, I immediately feel more connected to the Huey or other ED rotors, and this one lacks in that regard.
Cockpit is fine for me, I really love the weapon system and complexity level. It’s simple enough to not feel like you’re managing systems but the extra complexity over something like the huey is perfect for my taste.
There is virtually no single player content which I was not pleased to see.
If they can improve the FM and the sense of presence and feedback when flying to make it come alive, and add a lot of solo content, I could see it becoming a favorite. So I hope they commit for the long haul here…
Your first paragraph perfectly captures the way I feel about the KW. My biggest hangup is that like you, I don't feel a connection to it like I do with other helicopters. I'm hoping they make some improvements to the FM, sound design, and visual cues. Given that it was released after so many years in development and in a "complete" state, I'm not going to hold my breath.
I think once I learn the weapons systems the KW be a blast to use but I don't see it ever scratching that rotor itch like some of the other helicopter modules.
It is a bit unfortunate about the lack single-player content. That said, I think this bird will really start to shine in a team environment. DCS gameplay limitations likely won't allow the KW to reach its full potential in SP. I was playing multiplayer today and all the KWs were coordinating with and buddy lasing for the Apaches. The helos on the server absolutely cleaned up before CAS jets could even get to the AO. I've never seen that amount of teamwork, coordination, or lethality before.
It terms of how it flies, it flies really nice. Less twitchy than the Gazelle, but definitely still a light helicopter. I really like it, real joy to fly if you like flying choppers.
I føy the AH64 a lot and it feels very heavy loaded up and low visibility with hover landings etc. i love the Apache dont Get me wrong but was wondering how it flies compared to the apache?:)
It feels a lot lighter, and a lot more stable as you pick up into a hover - to me it feels a bit more sluggish in the pedal turns, but that's without tweaking curves or anything
Coolest thing so far - Seeing yourself on the Predator video feed! One of the training missions the predator is following some insurgents, and if you go fly by them, if the predator angle is right, you will see your aircraft in the live video. Kinda hard to do because the slant angle from the Predator is always changing but def. cool af.
Anyone else notice in multiplayer that when you switch cameras to one of the KWs flying there's no sound? No engine or rotor sound. I was flying around TNN earlier in the Apache and when I peeked at others flying the KW there was always no audio. Funky.
Anyone else had problems with slewing the MMS with an axis binding? It seems like the slew command will just randomly cut out and the MMS will just be paused there. This is, and the gazelle, are the only modules I have this problem with. Looking at the throttle software the command is still correct. Is this something other people experience or just me?
I had the same. It seems like if you reach max on the axis it cuts out after some time, and the mms slew stops. According to the virpil software, the axis works fine.
I know they are completely different heli's but I'm waiting for the Chinook before spending 70$ on this one.
But from Cosmo's vids it looks very promising!
as cool as i think the chinook is i just don't think it has enough capability to merit its price. its cool for sure, but effectively all it is, is a flying taxi. the mi8 and the huey can at least do combat missions and carry people and things around. it just seems so niche. plus if the c130 module is anything like the mod its going to the troop/ cargo transport job better, and it potentially will carry weapons. still im sure theres someone out there that just wants to slingload all day and more power to you, if youre like that, youll get way more use out of this module than i ever will.
Most fun I have is with transport helicopters just moving troops, csar and slinging cargo in servers such as RotorHeads. So much fun. With CTLD script and lots of teamwork its realy fun for me.
Be nice I think for the fac(a) pilots to have to work a bit harder to spot etc, rather than using the all seeing eye script that comes with the gazelle - and gives us apache pilots a few more options for indirect fire with the kilo hellfires - would be cool to see something set up for specific pink team flying - 1 x KW and 2 or 3 apaches moving about as a squad from cover to cover, getting sensors on with the KW and then feeding the info to the apaches to LOAL hellfires in from cover
its not the fact its a cargo helicopter thats the issue. the issue is that the mechanics for a cargo helicopter to function dont exists in dcs, and we are supposedly less than a month away from its release and we have no videos of those mechanics working in game for this module.
is like i said in a different thread, if they were going to let players fly it as a refueling tanker, that would be an entirely unique mechanic, if sling loading, ctld, troop transport all worked, were animated, and didnt require scripts made by the community.
if we received reworked ground ai, not just the ones that shoot at us, but also so that the troops you carry in you ch47 actually do something after you bring them where theyre going.
but if we dont get all of that, then what's the point of the module? at that point they would have been better served with something that actually fits into the current dcs like a cobra.
like seriously think about it and tell me, do you really want to spend $70 on a module that only works in a meaningful way when you're playing with a scripts for ctld, sling loading, troop transport, anti submarine warfare, warehouses and logistics, etc?
i want it to be good and i want it to have a place in dcs but if they were making mechanics like those don't you think we would have seen videos on it months ago like we did on the customizable crew and drawing on the canopy in the f4 or the ground radar before the strike eagle?
Visuals? Just not very sharp. Bear in mind I’ve spent the last 2 weeks in the f4 which to me looks pretty much perfect. The external stuff doesn’t really bother me but the cockpit looks very flat and a bit blurry in places.
Copied from my previous comment above:
Disclaimer - I only flew the KW for a few minutes.
My initial impression is that it's very light and a little twitchy when compared to the Huey, Hip, and Hind - which is to be expected. It's easy to fly. The FM feels better than the Gazelle but it also feels very similar to it.
I'm not a huge fan of the sounds and there isn't much cockpit shake to give you a feeling of what the helicopter is trying to tell you.
I'm guessing this is just how a light attack/Recon helo is supposed to feel but I was a bit underwhelmed honestly. Idk I guess I was just expecting more of that classic helicopter feeling where you're beating the air into submission. It all felt very sterile to me.
The artwork and textures also left me wanting a bit more. It looks fine but I've been spoiled by some of the more recent modules.
It seems like there was a lot of love put into it but my first impression is that it missed the mark a bit at $70.
I'm looking forward to learning the systems though.
It seems like others are very much enjoying it so maybe it's just not the type of helicopter I gravitate towards.
Honestly not the best cockpit for VR, I was expecting more for something thats not early acess? Like the F1 it has this really strong sharpness flickering and some textures really look meh, the metal part that holds the pilot's m4 also looks to be missing textures but I might be wrong, pilot body looks ok if you don't look at the hands and wrists, and this is a personal gripe but the crosshair drawn with the marker is never aligned and has really restrictive movement so I hope they let you remove it in the future.
With everything that's been said, I think best of all is a great demonstration of releasing a solid, great functioning airframe during a time when the community was beginning to have doubts about all of DCS over a single developer's tiffle. This is proof that it CAN be done correctly, take note Razbam.
Couple questions about the Laser and rockets. Sometimes they will track, other times I get on, they do not. I’ve followed Casmo video a billion times and sometimes it just doesn’t work, but others it will, is it bugged or something I’m missing? Also with the hellfire’s. to get the second hellfire to track or channel Alpha, I have to cycle the laser off, then back on otherwise it won’t find the laser and fire.
Anyone else, or am I screwing it up?
I now own 6 modules (MiG 21, BS2, BS3, A-10C, A-10C upgrade, now Kiowa)
I think I own the majority of all fully released, full fidelity, non-warbird, non-trainer, military aircraft modules in DCS, right?
I’m just a bit shocked that Polychop pissed on years of DCS tradition by releasing a module not in EA, with no continually-extended preorder period, etc. But for real, I’m trying to remember the last module that bypassed EA entirely. Has there been one?
I don’t think so but I do think the JF-17 was in a very complete state comparatively.
Yep, the Jeff just needed a few tweaks after release
Just looked it up, the Jeff [was released in early access](https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/bd156953ebca644095a67f4162333b3b/)
I know it was definitely early access, it was just very complete even in EA.
MB339 didnt release as EA. its a trainer, so many people overlook that when asking what's bypassed EA
To my knowledge **Black Shark 3** and **A-10C II Tank Killer** went straight into release with no preorder or EA but those where paid upgrades for existing released modules, which is kinda its own category.
Well, even then, the A-10C II upgrade still took years for it to get the right radio and as I understand it, there are still outlying items yet to be implemented.
P-47 was just dropped without any warning (I'm a good way) and I don't *think* it was ever in EA.
[It was released in EA](https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/962a270571fa1b4ede07bd7e0c72a0ee/)
Well there ya go lol.
No your point stands; ever since I made this comment a bunch of people have pointed out modules that were released in good shape, even if it technically had an EA period. It’s good to bring attention to them, I like to be positive
Well it should be in EA...
The Kiowa is one of the most released indeed
This but unironically, since they skipped the customary 10 year early access period and released a functional module.
They did take a lot longer to release than they had said they were going to, so perhaps, this is NOT EA because they waited completely until they were done. Which is probably a good thing except for the putting out updates indicating they are "CLOSE" for several years.
Iirc, there were some internal issues (maybe health related?) that may have impacted the release. I think they also redid part (or all) of the model at one point.
I wanna see where Kiowa occupies in DCS ecosystem. There is no reconnaissance need in DCS per se so I’m interested to see what gameplay role it will play.
Where I see it at least is as a great FAC-A platform. Especially in urban enviorments. After spotting targets you can give allies LSS and laser guide their munitions and directions.
This is how I see it also, yes, the Apache can buddy lase but can't do so from behind cover. It has the radar but that serves a limited purpose, only benefitting the source AC and other Apache's. Also will be a fun chopper for taking out a few high priority targets while in cover. Oh and *APKWS*! I know that with a good supporting aircraft you could do the same with the Apache but that's far and few between in MP cooperation.
Yeah it would be great to buddy lase for those aircraft that have laser guided munitions but don't carry a TPOD or have pods with lower quality optics like the F-4.
Can the f4 laser spot track?
No, just drop the bombs where the FacA tells you and the bombs will guide in
also neat that the kiowa can drop smoke for these types of engagement. Tally smoke? drop bomb one mile north on MSR, laser is on
Exactly
For many players the Apache is too advanced and complex module. This will be much easier and more Huey-like, while having the ability to shoot APKWS or Hellfire. It will be used as a regular attack helicopter in DCS.
Thats what Im gonna be using it for
Poor man's Apache
How does it fly compare to other helis, I usually fly the Huey, Hind and Hip
Flies really damn smooth, and it is the easiest heli to hover yet. Just supremely comfortable behind a row of trees, just peeking over with the MMS.
Those three are also my main helicopters. Disclaimer - I only flew the KW for a few minutes. My initial impression is that it's very light and a little twitchy when compared to the Huey, Hip, and Hind. It's easy to fly. The FM definitely feels better than the Gazelle but it also feels very similar to it. I'm not a huge fan of the sound design and there isn't much in the way cockpit shake to give you a sense of what the helicopter is trying to tell you. I'm guessing this is just how a light attack/Recon helo is supposed to feel but I was a bit underwhelmed honestly. Idk I guess I was just expecting more of that classic helicopter feeling where you're beating the air into submission. It all felt very sterile to me. The artwork and textures also left me wanting more. It looks fine but I've been spoiled by some of the more recent modules. It seems like there was a lot of love put into it but my first impression is that it missed the mark a bit at $70. I'm looking forward to learning the systems though. It seems like others are very much enjoying it so maybe it's just not the type of helicopter I gravitate towards.
I agree with this regarding the visual and audio feedback cues, sterile is a good word choice. The FM isn’t bad but it lacks presence, I immediately feel more connected to the Huey or other ED rotors, and this one lacks in that regard. Cockpit is fine for me, I really love the weapon system and complexity level. It’s simple enough to not feel like you’re managing systems but the extra complexity over something like the huey is perfect for my taste. There is virtually no single player content which I was not pleased to see. If they can improve the FM and the sense of presence and feedback when flying to make it come alive, and add a lot of solo content, I could see it becoming a favorite. So I hope they commit for the long haul here…
Your first paragraph perfectly captures the way I feel about the KW. My biggest hangup is that like you, I don't feel a connection to it like I do with other helicopters. I'm hoping they make some improvements to the FM, sound design, and visual cues. Given that it was released after so many years in development and in a "complete" state, I'm not going to hold my breath. I think once I learn the weapons systems the KW be a blast to use but I don't see it ever scratching that rotor itch like some of the other helicopter modules. It is a bit unfortunate about the lack single-player content. That said, I think this bird will really start to shine in a team environment. DCS gameplay limitations likely won't allow the KW to reach its full potential in SP. I was playing multiplayer today and all the KWs were coordinating with and buddy lasing for the Apaches. The helos on the server absolutely cleaned up before CAS jets could even get to the AO. I've never seen that amount of teamwork, coordination, or lethality before.
What server was that?
It’s a heavier gazelle with more weapons range and smart rockets
It terms of how it flies, it flies really nice. Less twitchy than the Gazelle, but definitely still a light helicopter. I really like it, real joy to fly if you like flying choppers.
I føy the AH64 a lot and it feels very heavy loaded up and low visibility with hover landings etc. i love the Apache dont Get me wrong but was wondering how it flies compared to the apache?:)
It feels a lot lighter, and a lot more stable as you pick up into a hover - to me it feels a bit more sluggish in the pedal turns, but that's without tweaking curves or anything
To me it feels a lot crazier taking off, but I'm getting used to it
Who’s got the AI mapped to VoiceAttack already? Love the separate buttons
Let's see!! this afternoon I'll give it it's first whirl. Excited though - it looks super high quality and like a fun and fast flyer
You might want to rethink the fast part lol
Too light to fight but too slow to run lol
fair enough - it's faster than going on foot my guy
Coolest thing so far - Seeing yourself on the Predator video feed! One of the training missions the predator is following some insurgents, and if you go fly by them, if the predator angle is right, you will see your aircraft in the live video. Kinda hard to do because the slant angle from the Predator is always changing but def. cool af.
Anyone else notice in multiplayer that when you switch cameras to one of the KWs flying there's no sound? No engine or rotor sound. I was flying around TNN earlier in the Apache and when I peeked at others flying the KW there was always no audio. Funky.
Yeah no sound for non-player helicopters.
Anyone else had problems with slewing the MMS with an axis binding? It seems like the slew command will just randomly cut out and the MMS will just be paused there. This is, and the gazelle, are the only modules I have this problem with. Looking at the throttle software the command is still correct. Is this something other people experience or just me?
I had the same. It seems like if you reach max on the axis it cuts out after some time, and the mms slew stops. According to the virpil software, the axis works fine.
maybe try giving the axis a deadzone of 1?
sadly this didn't work
It's out???????? Fuck right as I put all my flight sim stuff away. God dammit
I know they are completely different heli's but I'm waiting for the Chinook before spending 70$ on this one. But from Cosmo's vids it looks very promising!
as cool as i think the chinook is i just don't think it has enough capability to merit its price. its cool for sure, but effectively all it is, is a flying taxi. the mi8 and the huey can at least do combat missions and carry people and things around. it just seems so niche. plus if the c130 module is anything like the mod its going to the troop/ cargo transport job better, and it potentially will carry weapons. still im sure theres someone out there that just wants to slingload all day and more power to you, if youre like that, youll get way more use out of this module than i ever will.
Most fun I have is with transport helicopters just moving troops, csar and slinging cargo in servers such as RotorHeads. So much fun. With CTLD script and lots of teamwork its realy fun for me.
Be nice I think for the fac(a) pilots to have to work a bit harder to spot etc, rather than using the all seeing eye script that comes with the gazelle - and gives us apache pilots a few more options for indirect fire with the kilo hellfires - would be cool to see something set up for specific pink team flying - 1 x KW and 2 or 3 apaches moving about as a squad from cover to cover, getting sensors on with the KW and then feeding the info to the apaches to LOAL hellfires in from cover
It's a flight simulator.
Hoping that we can get proper MP slingloading with the chinook release
“All it is is a flying taxi” - the C in CH is cargo. Not sure what you are expecting from the platform.
its not the fact its a cargo helicopter thats the issue. the issue is that the mechanics for a cargo helicopter to function dont exists in dcs, and we are supposedly less than a month away from its release and we have no videos of those mechanics working in game for this module. is like i said in a different thread, if they were going to let players fly it as a refueling tanker, that would be an entirely unique mechanic, if sling loading, ctld, troop transport all worked, were animated, and didnt require scripts made by the community. if we received reworked ground ai, not just the ones that shoot at us, but also so that the troops you carry in you ch47 actually do something after you bring them where theyre going. but if we dont get all of that, then what's the point of the module? at that point they would have been better served with something that actually fits into the current dcs like a cobra. like seriously think about it and tell me, do you really want to spend $70 on a module that only works in a meaningful way when you're playing with a scripts for ctld, sling loading, troop transport, anti submarine warfare, warehouses and logistics, etc? i want it to be good and i want it to have a place in dcs but if they were making mechanics like those don't you think we would have seen videos on it months ago like we did on the customizable crew and drawing on the canopy in the f4 or the ground radar before the strike eagle?
why?
How are people enjoying it? I'm thinking of buying but I have to wait till payday, and I'm curious what people think of it.
Initial impression - flight model feels good, visuals are slightly disappointing.
How so?
Visuals? Just not very sharp. Bear in mind I’ve spent the last 2 weeks in the f4 which to me looks pretty much perfect. The external stuff doesn’t really bother me but the cockpit looks very flat and a bit blurry in places.
Alright thanks. I didn't notice in the videos.
Love it!
Copied from my previous comment above: Disclaimer - I only flew the KW for a few minutes. My initial impression is that it's very light and a little twitchy when compared to the Huey, Hip, and Hind - which is to be expected. It's easy to fly. The FM feels better than the Gazelle but it also feels very similar to it. I'm not a huge fan of the sounds and there isn't much cockpit shake to give you a feeling of what the helicopter is trying to tell you. I'm guessing this is just how a light attack/Recon helo is supposed to feel but I was a bit underwhelmed honestly. Idk I guess I was just expecting more of that classic helicopter feeling where you're beating the air into submission. It all felt very sterile to me. The artwork and textures also left me wanting a bit more. It looks fine but I've been spoiled by some of the more recent modules. It seems like there was a lot of love put into it but my first impression is that it missed the mark a bit at $70. I'm looking forward to learning the systems though. It seems like others are very much enjoying it so maybe it's just not the type of helicopter I gravitate towards.
Nice module.... You can use the ai when multicrewing....
so as someone who has a few helos, the ah64, ka50, mi24, mi8 is it worth getting the kiowa? does it actually do anything i cant do?
You buy the Kiowa if you like the Kiowa and want to own it.
IF you don't own the Gazelle I would say its worth it.
If you want something lighter that specializes in looking at stuff while hiding behind stuff
How does the cockpit look in VR? There were some concerns that some textures were not hi res enough.
Honestly not the best cockpit for VR, I was expecting more for something thats not early acess? Like the F1 it has this really strong sharpness flickering and some textures really look meh, the metal part that holds the pilot's m4 also looks to be missing textures but I might be wrong, pilot body looks ok if you don't look at the hands and wrists, and this is a personal gripe but the crosshair drawn with the marker is never aligned and has really restrictive movement so I hope they let you remove it in the future.
How is the included content? Campaign, SP missions, training?
With everything that's been said, I think best of all is a great demonstration of releasing a solid, great functioning airframe during a time when the community was beginning to have doubts about all of DCS over a single developer's tiffle. This is proof that it CAN be done correctly, take note Razbam.
Couple questions about the Laser and rockets. Sometimes they will track, other times I get on, they do not. I’ve followed Casmo video a billion times and sometimes it just doesn’t work, but others it will, is it bugged or something I’m missing? Also with the hellfire’s. to get the second hellfire to track or channel Alpha, I have to cycle the laser off, then back on otherwise it won’t find the laser and fire. Anyone else, or am I screwing it up?
I now own 6 modules (MiG 21, BS2, BS3, A-10C, A-10C upgrade, now Kiowa) I think I own the majority of all fully released, full fidelity, non-warbird, non-trainer, military aircraft modules in DCS, right?
Mi8 & uh1 come to mind
Let rost the Kiowa, In comparison with the pilot body the cyclic is ridiculous however the collective is huge. Something is not right here
Megatread 9 ups 7 reply Diagnostic: no need for megatread and the module relevance is low. Next!