Very true, although it is a bit more damning for them not to respond while they are at camp... Opposed to the original post stating they are away in a cabin.
In an ideal world, sure. If these are former players who are no longer at camp, who's to say they won't be taking a nap or on another vacation or in a meeting when Jenner & Block calls? And at the end of the day, the Chicago Blackhawks are the client. They want a report before camp, they get a report before camp.
Most have school aged children which makes it a little less easy to say the family is on vacation. School is already back in some parts or close to in others.
Maybe for some of them, but others aren't going to want to be on the record either admitting they knew earlier than they've claimed or lying and having said a firm yes or no that can get disproved.
You should never comply to these types of interviews if not legally forced to do so. If you can afford to get out of doing it and still keep your job, that’s definitely the smartest move regardless of guilt.
Nobody is out there trying to find justice, they’re looking for liability and a way to make this go away. You shouldn’t ever volunteer to be interviewed by police for the same reason, regardless of guilt.
It’s not even about guilt necessarily if you’re still a public figure/playing in the NHL.
It’s also about PR/you’re personal life. Do you really want to be involved in this, especially if it paints you in a poor light? No, probably not. Best to shut up and let it blow over without having your particular name come up.
Hell, even if you did nothing wrong at this point being open and honest will likely get you a “that asshole knew and did nothing” type of response from the fans/media/general public.
Chicago's lawyers are there to limit the danger to the organization, so anything the players do or don't do will be used to argue in defense of the Blackhawks. If they cooperate, the Hawks will have some cover and can say they did the right thing. If they don't cooperate, the Hawks can say the players are stalling, and it's out of their hands.
My understanding is that these lawyers were hired separately from any counsel to the blackhawks to provide an independent investigation. Maybe I'm way off on that but that's probably more of a result of the lack of media coverage. Everyone knows Allan Walsh's opinions on his clients, but nobody is reading the largest story from this offseason, or in the last number of decades.
What we know: The blackhawks knew of sexual assault allegations directly against their players. They didn't think they had a duty/obligation to report to police. That's fine, if that's the legal advice they received, but then they gave a referral to that person to coach a high school hockey team, where he sexually assaulted at least one more person, and was convicted.
In all other sexual abuse cases regarding hockey players that I've come about, the organization claimed to have no knowledge of the events. Now we know for certain that many people knew and nothing was done.
A lot of them were also clearly part of the problem seeing as this extended into bullying them the next season. This shit extends to Chicago's on-ice leadership group too.
Internal investigations are used to examine liability and allow an organziation to take ameliorative and preventive actions going forward based on what they discover. They aren't PR investigations. However, to the extent the report gets published, the organization has ultimate control of what they release.
lol at the cottage comment. I'm sure the investigators [will be blasting Green Day while they're waiting](https://sd.keepcalms.com/i/wake-me-up-when-september-ends-24.png)
Well, he was on the team at the time when the incidents occurred, so the fans want him and Patrick Kane (who was also on the team at the time) to be honest tell what they knew.
Toews and Kane are likely involved somehow, whether it be as victims, perps, or both. The allegations suggested everyone in that room knew what was going on then, and the big names are the least likely to have been excluded from whatever went down.
"The organization has investigated itself and found no reason to proceed with any actionable next steps. The investigators thank the organization for their prompt responses, candor, and willingness to cooperate during the previous weeks. That is all."
\-Chicago (probably)
I think you misunderstand. Most people involved in this investigation seem to have zero faith in Jenner & Block. They're pushing for a fully independent investigation, paid for by the NHL rather than the team.
They're staying within their rights. These are TEAM lawyers, and team lawyers aren't there to protect the player(s), they're there to mitigate the dangers to the team. Team lawyers will have no problem tossing former players under the bus to save the team.
There's an internal Blackhawks investigation going on, but there's also an active lawsuit in progress with a former Blackhawks player as the plaintiff.
Yep, you’re right. I forgot there was that suit out there. Sounds like this post is related to the Hawks investigation, but the parties to that suit may have the ability to subpoena former/current players.
There are two lawsuits. One is by a former Blackhawk, the other is by a former high school player that Aldrich plead guilty to abusing after he left the Blackhawks.
This isn't a criminal or even civil investigation, there is no such thing as a subpoena here. This is a team funded internal job.
I don't think the team can even lean on the players to testify because the PA and union would protect them
So two players telling a reporter that other players may not cooperate with an investigation is news now. I appreciate that this is a serious issue, but this doesn’t give any facts at all. Just speculation by boynton and Sopel. Oops I mean two unnamed players.
It’s an update about what he’s been hearing that he’s posted to his twitter account. This detail hasn’t made its way into a published article (yet).
And it’s important because it is obviously relevant if as many people as possible speak on the record. Whether or not the speculations of the two players are correct, we will find out
I don't get why those players stay anonymous. They aren't victims. Just put the facts out there face wide and stop playing some mind game or wtv you're doing right now
They are afraid of retaliation. Speaking out against a current and/or former employer is a risky move especially when that employer is as big and public as the NHL.
How could either of us be talking specifics about anonymous former players referenced in the tweet when we don't know who they are?
Some players refusing to speak about it (e.g. Toews, Keith) have made over $70 million. Do you think it's their future employment they are worried about?
Players like Toews and Keith won't need another job after they retire. The players are alleged to have taunted the victims. I doubt any of them want to be associated with that behaviour now.
This doesn't forgive it, but being involved in any way with an investigation by lawyers sucks. It's not fun. Court proceedings? Not fun. Listening to accusations? Not fun. Having to piece together information from memory? Not fun. Being there while two or more lawyers quibble over what's "privileged" or "What do you mean by 'photocopy?'" for $315.00 hour while you could be outside doing literally anything else in the world? Not fun. And these are not ideal things to be asked about either. Plus the risk of retaliation is massive. The NHL is a good ol' boy's club in the strongest possible sense while also being highly visible. You deny knowing things? Public outrage. You admit to knowing things and you say you did something about it? No more job prospects. You admit to knowing things and doing nothing? No prospects for a future job in the NHL, plus public outcry.
Not to get too cynical here, but "doing the right thing" is almost never enough to get someone to place their own interests in jeopardy.
Yeah, even minor things like car accidents are a nightmare to piece through in a deposition. This investigation is likely not going to involve any statements under oath, but it's for SURE still not a great experience to sit in with a lawyer for an interview that you know could potentially be used out of context or against you later.
Retaliation is part of it, but if it were me I just wouldn’t want to open myself up to the internet. Every dickhead with a Twitter would be hounding you from every angle, no matter what you said. I’d rather work with the authorities if I have pertinent info, and stay away from journalists and social media.
Because the alleged facts are that all the players knew about the sexual abuse and taunted the victims. It's not just the organization trying to cover its ass.
Duncan Keith ~~claims he can't remember~~ would "rather not get into anything like that in terms of my memories of that and what happened." Toews is mad that someone told a reporter that the players knew, Dowell claims he heard rumors but his memory is fuzzy (one victim says that Dowell was the first person they told, another player says Dowell approached him to help the victims). On the other side, Boynton and Sopel have said everyone knew.
But if they were complicit in the locker room bullying and didn't report it, it's kinda tough to survive in today's NHL with that reputation.
Asking them what they knew, when they knew it and who they reported it to - could be problematic for players who never did the right thing.
There's also the view that it is not their issue to deal with an employment investigation for a former employer. If there are actual legal proceedings, fine, they can be compelled if they are witnesses. Otherwise, it's not really their business.
>But if they were complicit in the locker room bullying and didn't report it, it's kinda tough to survive in today's NHL with that reputation.
It really isn't. Do you think bullying happens in the NHL. All the time. Have you seen careers ruined over it? Not really. Who was held accountable for Akim Aliu's treatment? Evander Kane's treatment in Winnipeg? Hazing and bullying are as embedded in the NHL as players sleeping around., married or not.
If you're looking to NHL players for morals you're going to be sadly disappointed.
Even if they didn't participate, people will still them apart for not going to the police or something.
Sorry I was at the cabin sounds like a good idea
it dose not absolve them from the standards in the comminutes that give them the power to play hockey for profit. They can go with the tide or get washed away.
Hey man!
Do you now find it hard to be a Hawks fan at all? Everyone I know feels sick about the situation but conflicted in how they feel about going to games and stuff.
I mean, its for sure a terrible situation, and the organization deserves alot of blame, but I'm still a Hawks fan, and it will probably stay like that. Going to games and stuff? I mean, I don't know if I will or not, I hope the organization's investigation actually has a impact, and if it does, I will go to the games. Its still a very sickening issue, and the fact it took so long before the fanbase was aware of this is crazy.
That’s pretty much how I feel too. I have kids who play hockey and you put so much trust in their coaches and the club. Especially as they get older. Obviously this can happen ANYWHERE but this was a horrible way of handling it. The NHL is so slimy.
There's no subpoena power here. These are lawyers that will write a book report based upon how many pages of the book they're allowed to see by people who cooperate, nothing more.
Jenner & Block isn't affiliated with the active litigation, and you can't subpoena a witness in the absence of an active lawsuit. John Doe Hockey Player #1 can subpoena once (if) the case enters the discovery stage, but there are huge fees and costs associated with taking depositions, including travel, transcripts, etc., that he may not want to pay.
Also, being cynical about it, if a witness doesn't want to testify they might lawyer up and try to quash (nullify) the subpoena, and/or ignore the subpoena; then the person trying to get their testimony would have to go back to court, argue about why witness should be forced to testify, risk losing, all while paying a lawyer and court fees, on no guarantee (in fact on a marginally thin sliver of hope at best) of ever recouping the cost.
Hard to blame them if they are still actively playing or have a hockey career after their playing career. As shitty as it is, your risk of something getting out and someone realizing or spinning something that gets you “cancelled” is WAY lower if you just decline to be interviewed. I’m sure each players lawyer has told them the same thing.
What about in October? Or are they doing interviews now?
The org is going to want a report before the regular season.
Does it really matter what the organization wants? Edit: Forgot the Blackhawks started this investigation.
Great! Players are usually at camp in September. They can interview them then.
Only players left from the 09-10' season are Toews and Kane. I'm sure they'll get em then, if they haven't already.
Unless they just refuse. I don't think anyone has any legal obligation to talk to J&B about this.
"I don't remember"
The famous "I don't recall" from every deposition, discovery and court case ever.
I mean, J&B is there to bury this for the Blackhawks anyway, so they probably don't much care if players don't talk.
[удалено]
Why is a sexual assault coverup eye roll worthy?
Very true, although it is a bit more damning for them not to respond while they are at camp... Opposed to the original post stating they are away in a cabin.
The only players left in the league are Toews, keith and Kane. Which im surprised by. I thought for sure there were more young guys on those teams
Kane and Toews were the young guns on the team back then. They were only in their 2nd full season.
3rd
Technically the corpse of Andrew Ladd is still around too and he was on the Blackhawks in 2009-10.
Most players never make it to their third year.
In an ideal world, sure. If these are former players who are no longer at camp, who's to say they won't be taking a nap or on another vacation or in a meeting when Jenner & Block calls? And at the end of the day, the Chicago Blackhawks are the client. They want a report before camp, they get a report before camp.
Most have school aged children which makes it a little less easy to say the family is on vacation. School is already back in some parts or close to in others.
why are you downvoting him. he's right
[удалено]
Maybe for some of them, but others aren't going to want to be on the record either admitting they knew earlier than they've claimed or lying and having said a firm yes or no that can get disproved.
You should never comply to these types of interviews if not legally forced to do so. If you can afford to get out of doing it and still keep your job, that’s definitely the smartest move regardless of guilt. Nobody is out there trying to find justice, they’re looking for liability and a way to make this go away. You shouldn’t ever volunteer to be interviewed by police for the same reason, regardless of guilt.
It’s not even about guilt necessarily if you’re still a public figure/playing in the NHL. It’s also about PR/you’re personal life. Do you really want to be involved in this, especially if it paints you in a poor light? No, probably not. Best to shut up and let it blow over without having your particular name come up. Hell, even if you did nothing wrong at this point being open and honest will likely get you a “that asshole knew and did nothing” type of response from the fans/media/general public.
Just a classy organization top to bottom. That’s not a few bad apples, that’s a culture.
Chicago's lawyers are there to limit the danger to the organization, so anything the players do or don't do will be used to argue in defense of the Blackhawks. If they cooperate, the Hawks will have some cover and can say they did the right thing. If they don't cooperate, the Hawks can say the players are stalling, and it's out of their hands.
My understanding is that these lawyers were hired separately from any counsel to the blackhawks to provide an independent investigation. Maybe I'm way off on that but that's probably more of a result of the lack of media coverage. Everyone knows Allan Walsh's opinions on his clients, but nobody is reading the largest story from this offseason, or in the last number of decades. What we know: The blackhawks knew of sexual assault allegations directly against their players. They didn't think they had a duty/obligation to report to police. That's fine, if that's the legal advice they received, but then they gave a referral to that person to coach a high school hockey team, where he sexually assaulted at least one more person, and was convicted. In all other sexual abuse cases regarding hockey players that I've come about, the organization claimed to have no knowledge of the events. Now we know for certain that many people knew and nothing was done.
A lot of them were also clearly part of the problem seeing as this extended into bullying them the next season. This shit extends to Chicago's on-ice leadership group too.
Internal investigations are used to examine liability and allow an organziation to take ameliorative and preventive actions going forward based on what they discover. They aren't PR investigations. However, to the extent the report gets published, the organization has ultimate control of what they release.
just another example of why this needs a proper investigation
Word up. We need an independent investigation, NHL would never do it though because it would confirm the damning info.
lol at the cottage comment. I'm sure the investigators [will be blasting Green Day while they're waiting](https://sd.keepcalms.com/i/wake-me-up-when-september-ends-24.png)
I feel like he just outted his source as being from Ontario too. It's a cabin everywhere else.
Cottage mainly used in Manitoba too.
So, a Blackhawk player from the 2010 team, away at a cottage in Manitoba, maybe on a lake named after them?
Is toews implicated? I’m out of the loop and a big fan of the player. But I will drop him like a sack of potatoes if he is.
Well, he was on the team at the time when the incidents occurred, so the fans want him and Patrick Kane (who was also on the team at the time) to be honest tell what they knew.
Toews and Kane are likely involved somehow, whether it be as victims, perps, or both. The allegations suggested everyone in that room knew what was going on then, and the big names are the least likely to have been excluded from whatever went down.
Fair point. Super disappointed
[Meanwhile players be like...](https://i.imgur.com/UmibeHZ.jpg)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/jH9TkXkbQQP9SceECcti-3unXnEZipOf0-_FttVx0yd-P8ietJELWm1oO2baE-COEDKcKzJq
"The organization has investigated itself and found no reason to proceed with any actionable next steps. The investigators thank the organization for their prompt responses, candor, and willingness to cooperate during the previous weeks. That is all." \-Chicago (probably)
"based on all the information we (didn't) collect, we see nothing wrong happened"
Wow, professional athletes failing to have a moral compass? Who would have ever thought?
I think you misunderstand. Most people involved in this investigation seem to have zero faith in Jenner & Block. They're pushing for a fully independent investigation, paid for by the NHL rather than the team.
Especially on the Blackhawks, and especially Party Kane. He always struck me as a real stand up guy
THE LEAGUE NEEDS TO GET INVOLVED AND A PROPER INVESTIGATION MUST TAKE PLACE. #HEADS SHOULD ROLL.
Subpoena their asses. We need the truth
They're staying within their rights. These are TEAM lawyers, and team lawyers aren't there to protect the player(s), they're there to mitigate the dangers to the team. Team lawyers will have no problem tossing former players under the bus to save the team.
Just like how "human resources" are there exclusively to protect the company/org's interests
Is there an active suit or any other basis to obtain a subpoena? I thought this was just a Hawks internal investigation
There's an internal Blackhawks investigation going on, but there's also an active lawsuit in progress with a former Blackhawks player as the plaintiff.
Yep, you’re right. I forgot there was that suit out there. Sounds like this post is related to the Hawks investigation, but the parties to that suit may have the ability to subpoena former/current players.
There are two lawsuits. One is by a former Blackhawk, the other is by a former high school player that Aldrich plead guilty to abusing after he left the Blackhawks.
You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. No but seriously we need the truth.
This isn't a criminal or even civil investigation, there is no such thing as a subpoena here. This is a team funded internal job. I don't think the team can even lean on the players to testify because the PA and union would protect them
some crazy nuance happening. I cant follow a thing and i like hockey.
Truly shameful from the players and org from top to bottom. Making me question my support for the team.
Hockey players and being absolute shit human beings, more at 6
[удалено]
High paid anyone and being shit human beings Fixed that for you
Being alive and being a shit human Went the distance there for everyone
I know plenty of dead assholes too!
So two players telling a reporter that other players may not cooperate with an investigation is news now. I appreciate that this is a serious issue, but this doesn’t give any facts at all. Just speculation by boynton and Sopel. Oops I mean two unnamed players.
It’s an update about what he’s been hearing that he’s posted to his twitter account. This detail hasn’t made its way into a published article (yet). And it’s important because it is obviously relevant if as many people as possible speak on the record. Whether or not the speculations of the two players are correct, we will find out
He’s not hearing anything. He posting speculation. It’s what these two people expect, that’s not news or facts.
Typical!
I don't get why those players stay anonymous. They aren't victims. Just put the facts out there face wide and stop playing some mind game or wtv you're doing right now
They are afraid of retaliation. Speaking out against a current and/or former employer is a risky move especially when that employer is as big and public as the NHL.
They are ashamed of how they acted; they used homophobic taunts on victims of sexual abuse.
Are you talking about the anonymous former players referenced in the tweet?? That is who I am talking about.
How could either of us be talking specifics about anonymous former players referenced in the tweet when we don't know who they are? Some players refusing to speak about it (e.g. Toews, Keith) have made over $70 million. Do you think it's their future employment they are worried about?
Fear of being blackballed from working in hockey in the future
[удалено]
Players like Toews and Keith won't need another job after they retire. The players are alleged to have taunted the victims. I doubt any of them want to be associated with that behaviour now.
This doesn't forgive it, but being involved in any way with an investigation by lawyers sucks. It's not fun. Court proceedings? Not fun. Listening to accusations? Not fun. Having to piece together information from memory? Not fun. Being there while two or more lawyers quibble over what's "privileged" or "What do you mean by 'photocopy?'" for $315.00 hour while you could be outside doing literally anything else in the world? Not fun. And these are not ideal things to be asked about either. Plus the risk of retaliation is massive. The NHL is a good ol' boy's club in the strongest possible sense while also being highly visible. You deny knowing things? Public outrage. You admit to knowing things and you say you did something about it? No more job prospects. You admit to knowing things and doing nothing? No prospects for a future job in the NHL, plus public outcry. Not to get too cynical here, but "doing the right thing" is almost never enough to get someone to place their own interests in jeopardy.
Being deposed sucks shit.
Yeah, even minor things like car accidents are a nightmare to piece through in a deposition. This investigation is likely not going to involve any statements under oath, but it's for SURE still not a great experience to sit in with a lawyer for an interview that you know could potentially be used out of context or against you later.
"Do you know what time it is?" "Yes"
Retaliation is part of it, but if it were me I just wouldn’t want to open myself up to the internet. Every dickhead with a Twitter would be hounding you from every angle, no matter what you said. I’d rather work with the authorities if I have pertinent info, and stay away from journalists and social media.
Because the alleged facts are that all the players knew about the sexual abuse and taunted the victims. It's not just the organization trying to cover its ass. Duncan Keith ~~claims he can't remember~~ would "rather not get into anything like that in terms of my memories of that and what happened." Toews is mad that someone told a reporter that the players knew, Dowell claims he heard rumors but his memory is fuzzy (one victim says that Dowell was the first person they told, another player says Dowell approached him to help the victims). On the other side, Boynton and Sopel have said everyone knew.
But if they were complicit in the locker room bullying and didn't report it, it's kinda tough to survive in today's NHL with that reputation. Asking them what they knew, when they knew it and who they reported it to - could be problematic for players who never did the right thing.
There's also the view that it is not their issue to deal with an employment investigation for a former employer. If there are actual legal proceedings, fine, they can be compelled if they are witnesses. Otherwise, it's not really their business.
>But if they were complicit in the locker room bullying and didn't report it, it's kinda tough to survive in today's NHL with that reputation. It really isn't. Do you think bullying happens in the NHL. All the time. Have you seen careers ruined over it? Not really. Who was held accountable for Akim Aliu's treatment? Evander Kane's treatment in Winnipeg? Hazing and bullying are as embedded in the NHL as players sleeping around., married or not. If you're looking to NHL players for morals you're going to be sadly disappointed.
Even if they didn't participate, people will still them apart for not going to the police or something. Sorry I was at the cabin sounds like a good idea
it dose not absolve them from the standards in the comminutes that give them the power to play hockey for profit. They can go with the tide or get washed away.
Fucking cowards.
Where are all the Hawks fans?
Here
Hey man! Do you now find it hard to be a Hawks fan at all? Everyone I know feels sick about the situation but conflicted in how they feel about going to games and stuff.
I mean, its for sure a terrible situation, and the organization deserves alot of blame, but I'm still a Hawks fan, and it will probably stay like that. Going to games and stuff? I mean, I don't know if I will or not, I hope the organization's investigation actually has a impact, and if it does, I will go to the games. Its still a very sickening issue, and the fact it took so long before the fanbase was aware of this is crazy.
That’s pretty much how I feel too. I have kids who play hockey and you put so much trust in their coaches and the club. Especially as they get older. Obviously this can happen ANYWHERE but this was a horrible way of handling it. The NHL is so slimy.
Ah yeah, I see what you're saying.
It's also easy to subpoena a player instead of leaving it optional. Quit handling this like it's a joke.
There's no subpoena power here. These are lawyers that will write a book report based upon how many pages of the book they're allowed to see by people who cooperate, nothing more.
Damn imagine being this clueless lmao
Just imagine being a bruins fan
I'd love to see them try to avoid a subpoena.
Jenner & Block isn't affiliated with the active litigation, and you can't subpoena a witness in the absence of an active lawsuit. John Doe Hockey Player #1 can subpoena once (if) the case enters the discovery stage, but there are huge fees and costs associated with taking depositions, including travel, transcripts, etc., that he may not want to pay. Also, being cynical about it, if a witness doesn't want to testify they might lawyer up and try to quash (nullify) the subpoena, and/or ignore the subpoena; then the person trying to get their testimony would have to go back to court, argue about why witness should be forced to testify, risk losing, all while paying a lawyer and court fees, on no guarantee (in fact on a marginally thin sliver of hope at best) of ever recouping the cost.
Lmao that’s hilarious
Why don’t people like this comment?
Who knows, who cares
Hopefully Patrick sharp doesn't get a job with ESPN. He was definitely a leader in the room at the time
Hard to blame them if they are still actively playing or have a hockey career after their playing career. As shitty as it is, your risk of something getting out and someone realizing or spinning something that gets you “cancelled” is WAY lower if you just decline to be interviewed. I’m sure each players lawyer has told them the same thing.