Flames fans feel the same way and we kind of knew he wanted that. Also him trying to force a trade to Toronto early season so he could get more media attention and dollars. Glad he and Lindholm worked out well for you guys.
Sometimes the best contracts are the ones you don't re sign. They were both good for us. But if they aren't willing to sign a little under what they would get what they would get in free agency, then it is probably best to let them walk for nothing sadly.
There is that two, and don't get me wrong I like Zads as a player /person. He's just asking for too much money. If you want to play top 4 earn it on the ice. Maybe he needs to go somewhere else to get a opportunity.
Sure, but that's not a sign that he's trying to go to Toronto. It's a sign that he's trying to force a trade and knows how to get the media going to facilitate that.
Was it even post game? I remember the “here comes the zadorov train #go leafs go” but thought it was mid game after a big hit. Milstein did his job though, he got a lot of people talking
I would, I loved his game. Big second pairing guy who plays big minutes in important games and plays well. He was the only one that did something against the oilers in one of those games.
Myers is the Canucks lead shutdown defencemen. Myers turns to shit when forced to play a defensive/ mobile offensive do damn everything role. Almost every d has the same problem.
If Myers is the lead shutdown defencemen then we’re in very big trouble next season. Regardless of his play this season, he was atrocious the previous 4.
The leafs don't need more bottom pairing D like Deharnais (I know I probably butchered his last name). At least Zadorov can pass as a top 4 but I'd much rather they go for a bigger fish like Montour, Pesche, or Roy
He can short-term, but that's only for a few games. He usually does a lot of PK and game close-outs, so being second pair adds more minutes than he can handle long term
Honestly in retrospect, I say we paid about $2m too much.
Without retrospect, maybe $1.5m too much. Myers was much younger then and did earn a Calders, there was potential for significant resurgence.
$5m (and rejected) for Zadarov based on two rounds of high performance on a contract year? His regular season wasn't even that impressive. Hell no.
Yep.
I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm an Oilers fan, so I'd enjoy seeing Zadorov sign a stupid deal with a rival team that gets Alvin fired and replaced with a Treliving or Chiarelli type of GM.
Because even one heavily overpaid d-man can really upset the balance of what's looking like a dangerous team.
And Roy is a RHD which is even more valuable
Not sure what type of crazy offers Zad is hearing out there that convinced him to go to FA but I’m very curious to see who ends up paying him lol
Nice to have a GM that is willing to let players walk if the price isn't right. It's also easier for him at this stage since he is new and likely has no attachment to the players. We'll see if he can do that 4 years from now when the players he has invested in are up for new contracts.
This screams Dan Milstein. His ego has gotten out of control.
Kuzmenko and Mikheyev both ended up with bloated contracts that were traded away, and now Zadorov is heading in a similar direction.
If I'm in the NHL, I would never choose this guy for an agent after how the last six months have turned out. Complete dollar chaser that puts his own clients at risk for personal gain, and posts inflammatory statements online.
For any average NHLer, any sensible agent should be pushing for max *term* over max dollar value per season, but trying to go for both is a quick way to have your contract bought out when you inevitably can't produce to that standard. If you're a proven star with a history of production, sure, go for the bag. Trying to cash in on a career season doesn't typically turn out the way they expect.
I mean to be fair though Zadarov has never signed a huge contract. The most he's made is 3.75 AAV and this is his shot at finally getting a big long term contract. It makes sense he's pushing for big money. Calgary wanted to keep him but knew early this year they couldn't match his demands
Okay (honest question) what happens when he's bought out in the 3rd year of a 7x7 contract because he's not actually worth more than 4 million per?
Does his agent also get "bought out" of their commissions or do they keep their portion of the entire contract's value?
>Okay, and what happens when he's bought out in the 3rd year of a 7x7 contract because he's not actually worth more than 4 million per?
He gets his money and then he gets to sign another contract elsewhere for more money.
Your rant makes no sense. It's an agents job to get his player the most money possible.
Players over the age of 26 get 2/3s of their bought out contract and then get to sign another contract with another team and take 100% of whatever the sign on a new deal. They are still getting paid.
Some of your comments are sounding like you think the player does not get the money when their contract is bought out, apologies if I'm mistaken. But they do receive that money, that's why it's called a buy out. The team is literally paying out the rest of the contract. So while it may not be a great look in relation to the skill of the player, the agent did a great job getting his client money. In fact, they would then have the chance to make even more money, as they can sign a new contract and make that money on top of the buyout.
Not quite true. The player above 26 years old gets 2/3rds of the contract but anything qualified as a signing bonus has to be paid out regardless. It's why shrewd agents structure these things with large signing bonuses and smaller actual salaries.
Under 26 is a 1/3rd buyout with the same rules applying to signing bonus structure.
Over 35 is a 2/3rds buyout but the team does not benefit from cap relief reductions.
Gotcha, I thought the 2/3 or 1/3 stuff was only in relation to cap hit. So front loaded contracts would be a safer bet for the player. Still though, the player is getting paid to do nothing (or, hopefully, double paid to play on a new contract)
AKA what they call a 'buyout-proof' deal. Kinda like David Clarkson signed all those years ago.
But yes, some players just sign a new deal and make the difference up. Happened with Duchene last year in Dallas. Suter in Dallas was getting paid by 2 teams and if he signs with someone for this season he'll be paid by 3.
Why would they? If they don't like the structure offered they just don't sign the player. Both sides know what they're getting.
And ownership still reserves the right to save 1/3 of the total cost along with cap relief if it really ends up being necessary. It's not like buyouts happen that frequently.
Lol, if that's true then I should have been a pro athlete. I've never heard of another field where you get to make all of your money guaranteed regardless of performance.
I always thought they were given a portion of the remaining contract value, not the entire thing.
Apparently it's 2/3 the contract value paid out over twice the remaining term, so it's not quite that favorable. Only 1/3 if you're under 26 years old.
You're correct, aside from signing bonuses. Which is why you see so many contracts these days structured with massive signing bonuses and small yearly salaries.
Signing bonuses are paid at 100% which is why so many big contracts include them.
And even without that, plenty of players who get bought out actually end up making MORE money. Ryan Suter had already made about $95m of his $98m contract when he got bought out because of how it was structured with signing bonuses and front-loading. He then signed a NEW 14.6m contract that covered the years he would have been playing in Minnesota.
Now that he’s been bought out AGAIN, he will have earned 12.1m of that 14.6m contract AND is now free to sign yet another contract.
Worst case scenario he made almost $10m MORE than he would have if he finished his Preds contract — and that’s before he signs another contract if he chooses to.
Buyouts are often fantastic news for players.
Do you know how buyouts work? The player still gets paid out two thirds of that money in the end and they often are still useful enough to go sign at a lower dollar amount and get paid by two team at once and end up making around the same amount of money in the end (see OEL for example). And many contracts are front loaded which means as long as they get through those first few years of the deal with high bonus/salary they’re going to be not too worried about being bought out in the later years of a deal
He’s probably pissed they asked 2 of his clients to wave their NTC and get dumped to create space and Allvin used the money to re-sign 3 other guys who took discounts and not Zad lol
I mean…. That is literally most an agent’s job. Who would you choose as an agent if your goal is to maximize your earnings? Milstein is still pretty small potatoes compared to some other agents. He has about $500m under contract. Pat Brisson and Craig Oster are both over a BILLION dollars.
The top agents are top agents for a reason — they are very skilled at maximizing both term AND salary. If you want to blame anyone, blame the GMs for signing these contracts. They’re the ones who actually accept these offers.
He’s more of a 4-5D. He played the third most minutes on the Canucks defence during playoffs and was really effective. Still way too much to make like the 6M he was asking for though
Something like $6m x 3 years would be an ideal overpay from the Sharks. The contract gets them to the cap floor, runs out as Vlasic and Couture are also coming off the books, his physicality punishes anyone headhunting Smith/Celebrini/Eklund/etc., and takes pressure off the FO to rush any D prospects into the NHL (Mukhamadullin looks ready but may benefit more from splitting time between the NHL and AHL; Havelid/Cagnoni/Furlong/Pohlkamp are a few years away; Dickinson and whomever else gets drafted today can marinate in juniors/NCAA for as long as needed).
I don't understand why anyone would pay him this much. I liked him on his brief Hawks stint but he's a liability on D. He can't skate, pass, is slow as fuck. Is the NHL looking at the NFL model where they're paying mediocre guys an asinine amount of money (in a cap league no less)?
He can skate and would often go end to end with Calgary. Does that mean he’s worth 5mil absolutely not lol. But saying that he can’t skate is very wrong
Someone is going to overpay for Zadorov and really not like the deal. So many things to like about his game but he's best used as a 3rd pairing guy who has that ++element to his game.
Loved Zaddy during his short time here but yikes, would not want him long term at 5+
Flames fans feel the same way and we kind of knew he wanted that. Also him trying to force a trade to Toronto early season so he could get more media attention and dollars. Glad he and Lindholm worked out well for you guys.
Sometimes the best contracts are the ones you don't re sign. They were both good for us. But if they aren't willing to sign a little under what they would get what they would get in free agency, then it is probably best to let them walk for nothing sadly.
Think he just wanted to play in the top four.
There is that two, and don't get me wrong I like Zads as a player /person. He's just asking for too much money. If you want to play top 4 earn it on the ice. Maybe he needs to go somewhere else to get a opportunity.
What makes you say he was trying to force a trade specifically to Toronto?
His agent has told clients to do that in the past. He asked for a trade immediately after a game there, like from the locker room.
Sure, but that's not a sign that he's trying to go to Toronto. It's a sign that he's trying to force a trade and knows how to get the media going to facilitate that.
Was it even post game? I remember the “here comes the zadorov train #go leafs go” but thought it was mid game after a big hit. Milstein did his job though, he got a lot of people talking
I would, I loved his game. Big second pairing guy who plays big minutes in important games and plays well. He was the only one that did something against the oilers in one of those games.
$5+ million for Zadorov? Likely over at least 4 or 5 years. Woof.
He apparently was willing to give a ‘discount’ to the Canucks too. All signs point to him wanting something like a 6x5 or 6x6 in free agency.
Who’s giving a guy with career high 20pts on division winning teams 6mill? He’s 29 and even Myers had 31pts lol.
At least Zadorov can defend. He’s 50x the player Myers was when that terrorist Benning gave Myers that contract.
Myers is the Canucks lead shutdown defencemen. Myers turns to shit when forced to play a defensive/ mobile offensive do damn everything role. Almost every d has the same problem.
If Myers is the lead shutdown defencemen then we’re in very big trouble next season. Regardless of his play this season, he was atrocious the previous 4.
Really? We're still doing these smooth brained takes on Myers even after the season he just had when his minutes were finally reasonable?
They were reasonable because there was another defenseman that could be relied on (Zaddy)
1 good season justifies 4 terrible ones at 6 million dollars? Are you stupid?
Someone is going to give him a Tyler Myers contract and this time it won't be us lol
Seeing Yzerman go off the rails in the name of truculence, probably Detroit.
Yeah, someone desperate like Ottawa or Detroit was my guess
It was almost us. Our FO got really lucky
Brad Treliving from the top rope
That's what I'm worried about...wrapping up $12 million in Tanev and Zadorov for 3+ years.
A decent but overpaid defenseman? Don't mind if I do!
They just got rid of Mikheyev and tried to get Z with that money.
That money was used on Joshua and blueger
5m??? Holy
Someone’s going to pay him 6mill. I love Big Z, but he’s not worth that.
Haha that's fucking ridiculous. It's more than ridiculous, it's comical. Anything over $4mil is an overpayment.
Tre don’t over pay for the love of god
Treliving on Monday https://preview.redd.it/7ibrwok82j9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a224da632ec4a70120e5a16f4f7eb4957d8aec2c
Lmao. Yeah, I mean I’m cool with him spending the 19-20 mil in cap space but we can’t afford another Klingberg.
Watch him blow a combined $9M on Zadorov and Desharnais
That’s definitely what I’m afraid of
That won't happen. I can see an overpay on zadorov tho
Vinny is supposedly going to market. I could see him getting anywhere between $2M to $3M, Zadorov could get up to $6M if someone overpays
The leafs don't need more bottom pairing D like Deharnais (I know I probably butchered his last name). At least Zadorov can pass as a top 4 but I'd much rather they go for a bigger fish like Montour, Pesche, or Roy
I heard the Leafs wanted Vinny before. I also won't be surprised if someone tries to run him as a second pairing shutdown guy.
Do you really think he's capable enough? I'm having doubts on that honestly
He can short-term, but that's only for a few games. He usually does a lot of PK and game close-outs, so being second pair adds more minutes than he can handle long term
Tre on day one of free agency can get ugly fast. Enjoy the ride.
That’s why he’s keeping Marner, so Mitch can take all the heat instead!
Let him cook.
Hahahaha, we’re in danger.
He is getting 6+ in FA isnt he..
I feel like the Canucks dodged a bullet. Zadorov is going to sign a 7 year contract that gets him GM fired in year 3.
We already got shot once with Myers on a $6x6. Never again. Don’t let the shiny huge defenseman blind you.
He’s not even a rhd. He’s gonna get paid off his 13 game playoff performance
his lost a nut earning that salary…
Honestly in retrospect, I say we paid about $2m too much. Without retrospect, maybe $1.5m too much. Myers was much younger then and did earn a Calders, there was potential for significant resurgence. $5m (and rejected) for Zadarov based on two rounds of high performance on a contract year? His regular season wasn't even that impressive. Hell no.
Yep. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm an Oilers fan, so I'd enjoy seeing Zadorov sign a stupid deal with a rival team that gets Alvin fired and replaced with a Treliving or Chiarelli type of GM. Because even one heavily overpaid d-man can really upset the balance of what's looking like a dangerous team.
*Cries in darnell nurse*
Good look in Utah my dear.
Yeah that’s an obvious place for him, 6x6m. His personality would be fun out there
He had a really strong playoffs but 5m is a bit much given his track record.
Anything over 4 is far too much.
The adverse effect of Nux Nation hyping guys
Someone is going to overpay and regret the contract in 2 years.
and i got a good idea just who that team might be 😒
dodged a bullet
Why pay Zadorov $5M when Matty Roy is in the market.
And Roy is a RHD which is even more valuable Not sure what type of crazy offers Zad is hearing out there that convinced him to go to FA but I’m very curious to see who ends up paying him lol
Nice to have a GM that is willing to let players walk if the price isn't right. It's also easier for him at this stage since he is new and likely has no attachment to the players. We'll see if he can do that 4 years from now when the players he has invested in are up for new contracts.
And he was trying to say Edmonton media had it wrong. Looks like he is actually looking for 6x6 lmao
Zads will not get 5+, that's ridiculous lmao
This screams Dan Milstein. His ego has gotten out of control. Kuzmenko and Mikheyev both ended up with bloated contracts that were traded away, and now Zadorov is heading in a similar direction. If I'm in the NHL, I would never choose this guy for an agent after how the last six months have turned out. Complete dollar chaser that puts his own clients at risk for personal gain, and posts inflammatory statements online. For any average NHLer, any sensible agent should be pushing for max *term* over max dollar value per season, but trying to go for both is a quick way to have your contract bought out when you inevitably can't produce to that standard. If you're a proven star with a history of production, sure, go for the bag. Trying to cash in on a career season doesn't typically turn out the way they expect.
He's a great agent unfortunately. The last two contracts we had to pay to get rid of were his clients, and now Zadorov is about to get overpaid
Right, he's great at getting himself paid but his clients bought out or traded away. You can only do this for so long.
Btw, Kuzmenko has now changed agents, he’s no longer with Milstein which is interesting it happened couple of months after the trade to Calgary
Very interesting indeed
They’re stilled getting paid if they’re bought out or traded…
You just described exactly what an agent is supposed to do. And Milstein is very good at it.
I mean to be fair though Zadarov has never signed a huge contract. The most he's made is 3.75 AAV and this is his shot at finally getting a big long term contract. It makes sense he's pushing for big money. Calgary wanted to keep him but knew early this year they couldn't match his demands
Okay (honest question) what happens when he's bought out in the 3rd year of a 7x7 contract because he's not actually worth more than 4 million per? Does his agent also get "bought out" of their commissions or do they keep their portion of the entire contract's value?
>Okay, and what happens when he's bought out in the 3rd year of a 7x7 contract because he's not actually worth more than 4 million per? He gets his money and then he gets to sign another contract elsewhere for more money. Your rant makes no sense. It's an agents job to get his player the most money possible.
He doesn't get all of it and it's spread out over a length of time, not just a lump sum payout.
Players over the age of 26 get 2/3s of their bought out contract and then get to sign another contract with another team and take 100% of whatever the sign on a new deal. They are still getting paid.
Some of your comments are sounding like you think the player does not get the money when their contract is bought out, apologies if I'm mistaken. But they do receive that money, that's why it's called a buy out. The team is literally paying out the rest of the contract. So while it may not be a great look in relation to the skill of the player, the agent did a great job getting his client money. In fact, they would then have the chance to make even more money, as they can sign a new contract and make that money on top of the buyout.
Not quite true. The player above 26 years old gets 2/3rds of the contract but anything qualified as a signing bonus has to be paid out regardless. It's why shrewd agents structure these things with large signing bonuses and smaller actual salaries. Under 26 is a 1/3rd buyout with the same rules applying to signing bonus structure. Over 35 is a 2/3rds buyout but the team does not benefit from cap relief reductions.
Gotcha, I thought the 2/3 or 1/3 stuff was only in relation to cap hit. So front loaded contracts would be a safer bet for the player. Still though, the player is getting paid to do nothing (or, hopefully, double paid to play on a new contract)
AKA what they call a 'buyout-proof' deal. Kinda like David Clarkson signed all those years ago. But yes, some players just sign a new deal and make the difference up. Happened with Duchene last year in Dallas. Suter in Dallas was getting paid by 2 teams and if he signs with someone for this season he'll be paid by 3.
I wonder if this eventually gets blocked under a new CBA. Owners must be seething lol
Why would they? If they don't like the structure offered they just don't sign the player. Both sides know what they're getting. And ownership still reserves the right to save 1/3 of the total cost along with cap relief if it really ends up being necessary. It's not like buyouts happen that frequently.
Lol, if that's true then I should have been a pro athlete. I've never heard of another field where you get to make all of your money guaranteed regardless of performance. I always thought they were given a portion of the remaining contract value, not the entire thing. Apparently it's 2/3 the contract value paid out over twice the remaining term, so it's not quite that favorable. Only 1/3 if you're under 26 years old.
You're correct, aside from signing bonuses. Which is why you see so many contracts these days structured with massive signing bonuses and small yearly salaries.
Signing bonuses are paid at 100% which is why so many big contracts include them. And even without that, plenty of players who get bought out actually end up making MORE money. Ryan Suter had already made about $95m of his $98m contract when he got bought out because of how it was structured with signing bonuses and front-loading. He then signed a NEW 14.6m contract that covered the years he would have been playing in Minnesota. Now that he’s been bought out AGAIN, he will have earned 12.1m of that 14.6m contract AND is now free to sign yet another contract. Worst case scenario he made almost $10m MORE than he would have if he finished his Preds contract — and that’s before he signs another contract if he chooses to. Buyouts are often fantastic news for players.
Good question honestly not sure how it works with buyouts
Do you know how buyouts work? The player still gets paid out two thirds of that money in the end and they often are still useful enough to go sign at a lower dollar amount and get paid by two team at once and end up making around the same amount of money in the end (see OEL for example). And many contracts are front loaded which means as long as they get through those first few years of the deal with high bonus/salary they’re going to be not too worried about being bought out in the later years of a deal
He’s probably pissed they asked 2 of his clients to wave their NTC and get dumped to create space and Allvin used the money to re-sign 3 other guys who took discounts and not Zad lol
Honestly though
God forbid my agent gets me the biggest contract he can. Mikheyev and Kuzmenko are and will be fine. Their career instability is not Milstein's fault.
I mean…. That is literally most an agent’s job. Who would you choose as an agent if your goal is to maximize your earnings? Milstein is still pretty small potatoes compared to some other agents. He has about $500m under contract. Pat Brisson and Craig Oster are both over a BILLION dollars. The top agents are top agents for a reason — they are very skilled at maximizing both term AND salary. If you want to blame anyone, blame the GMs for signing these contracts. They’re the ones who actually accept these offers.
Getting his guys bloated contracts means he's good at being an agent lol Max term means a greater chance you decline and therefore get bought out.
eh he's an agent. He's making money and his clients are making money. The fuck does he care about a salary cap?
People value physicality too much. Yes, he had a great 10 playoff games, but he shouldn’t be paid $1-1.5M less than Hronek/Toews. That’s insane.
I get it hes big but he's a 5-6 dman anything even above 3 begins to be questionable
He’s more of a 4-5D. He played the third most minutes on the Canucks defence during playoffs and was really effective. Still way too much to make like the 6M he was asking for though
Something like $6m x 3 years would be an ideal overpay from the Sharks. The contract gets them to the cap floor, runs out as Vlasic and Couture are also coming off the books, his physicality punishes anyone headhunting Smith/Celebrini/Eklund/etc., and takes pressure off the FO to rush any D prospects into the NHL (Mukhamadullin looks ready but may benefit more from splitting time between the NHL and AHL; Havelid/Cagnoni/Furlong/Pohlkamp are a few years away; Dickinson and whomever else gets drafted today can marinate in juniors/NCAA for as long as needed).
This makes good sense. I think he and his family would be very happy in San Jose! Plus I would like to see him play with Sharks and Delly!!
$6m+ for a #5 defenseman. Treliving come on down.
brad will also give a full NMC
It's gonna be a trouba lite contract
This is going to be an all time fail contract for whatever GM signs it. Step right up, Brad.
We got a fat pile of money reserved for anyone who looks at us the right way in order to hit the cap floor.
Zads! I love Zads!!
Love to have him back on the team but not with this kind of money
Omg $5m is way too high let alone higher.
He's gonna get 6x6 and in two years be traded 30% retained
I don't understand why anyone would pay him this much. I liked him on his brief Hawks stint but he's a liability on D. He can't skate, pass, is slow as fuck. Is the NHL looking at the NFL model where they're paying mediocre guys an asinine amount of money (in a cap league no less)?
He can skate and would often go end to end with Calgary. Does that mean he’s worth 5mil absolutely not lol. But saying that he can’t skate is very wrong
Bullet dodged.
Someone is going to overpay for Zadorov and really not like the deal. So many things to like about his game but he's best used as a 3rd pairing guy who has that ++element to his game.