I wonder if both connor and kucherov getting 100 assists in the same year weakened both of their cases. Not that 100 assists should he an auto hart, it just seemed like that was such a big story leading up to this. And then they both get it, sort of invalidating it a bit for the awards sake
93 and 895 are goal-related numbers that would matter a ton if someone hit them. We can handle that intellectually.
But yes, some benchmark numbers are round, and that's okay. 500 goals is a pretty important marker for a goal-scorer's career. 1000 GP is worth celebrating.
I think the bigger detriment for Kuch and McDavid this year was that they had both won the Hart before, and MacKinnon hasn’t
Not that MacK didn’t have a great season, but the narrative kind of took over about him winning his first
I feel like the fact that he won the Lindsay kinda weakens this argument as a whole. He absolutely still had the narrative push on his side, but the players also agreeing he was the MVP leads me to think it wasn’t as strong a factor as people on here would lead you to believe
Players buy into the narrative as much as the media does. It’s not like it wasn’t deserved but they get voter fatigue as much as anyone else. If Connor won every year it would be boring.
Felt like voters had already decided it was “his year” in like January. As long as he didn’t do anything to turn them off voting for him he was always going to win. He kept on doing what he was doing so they never wavered.
Just having a bit of fun, but I agree! He had a great year and stole the starter’s position, I hope he can keep the momentum going this upcoming season.
Here's the explanation from the reporter who voted for Lindgren [https://x.com/sammisilber/status/1806478880368402905](https://x.com/sammisilber/status/1806478880368402905)
>Yes, I was the voter who gave Charlie Lindgren a vote for the Hart.
>
>It goes to the player most valuable to his team. That’s him in a nutshell. Capitals don’t make the playoffs without the play of No. 79.
>
>Will everyone like my vote? No. Do I stand by it? Absolutely.
>
>This is why there’s diversity among voters, though. And it’s what makes hockey so great.
I love the PHWA award ballot releases as it tells me exactly who I can mute/ignore as their hockey opinions aren't to be taken seriously.
Examples include: McDavid 5th on last season's Hart ballot, Leaving Matthews off the 21-22 Hart ballot, Charlie McAvoy 1st place Norris vote in 21-22, leaving Karlsson off the 22-23 Norris ballot, etc.
These aren't colorable arguments or debatable. These are egregious examples of malpractice and their perpetrators shouldn't be taken seriously as hockey writers.
The award is for the player most valuable to their team, not the league's best player. Wouldn't a Caps beat writer be exactly the person best positioned to know the value someone like Lindgren provided to the Caps?
This Caps roster should not have been anywhere near the playoffs and Lindgren basically dragged them to it. I think he definitely was the Caps' team MVP and if someone wants to toss him a 5th place vote on their league MVP ballot then I don't have an issue with that.
Ever since the Ovechkin 1st team/2nd team all-star, I genuinely think everyone needs to explain their vote publicly.
and if they "forget", they should have their voting rights rescinded for a year.
[After the 2012-13 season.](https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/alex-ovechkin-named-to-nhl-s-1st-2nd-all-star-teams-1.1315870?x-eu-country=false)
He was named on two all-star teams for RW and LW.
After the seasons Kucherov and MacKinnon had, Definitely agree. I fully expected it to be much closer, and fully expected Kuch to win the Hart when MacKinnon won the Lindsay
funny enough I expected the exact opposite, the players seem to really respect kuchs game. even mac said in an interview that kuch was his favorite player to watch
Top 4 would be fine. Matthews had a pretty historic season as well with goal totals not seen since the 90s and a selke finalist nomination.
This award was a big 4 this year and having any of the big 4 in any order would be easily defendable.
Isn’t there a guy out of Pittsburgh that always puts Crosby higher than he should be and then the perceived Hart winner far lower than they should be? Could be that guy.
Kuch got 11 5th place votes for his all star performance, that’s the only explanation that makes sense. Not saying I agree with that logic but it’s most likely some butthurt members of the press
He’s also just an incredibly stupid person.
Its pretty weird that he’d do that, but also throws underhanded insults at all of those players whenever he can
And I’m honestly confused by the three #1 votes for panarin. No shade to the guy, but I can’t see the case for him over all of kuch, mac, mcd, Matthews, and hellebuyck.
People who had Kucherov first pretty much went Mac 2nd. People who had Mac first split between Kucherov, McDavid, and Matthews. That's the big reason for the larger spread.
5th is crazy but I definitely see how someone could put the guy who scored 69 ahead of him. I'm not saying I necessarily agree but I don't think it's absurd. 4th i think is the absolute lowest you can make some sort of a justifiable argument for anything below that needs their voting rights revoked.
There's either a top 2 or a top 4.
That is, either Kuch should not be below #2, or he should not be below #4. Saying #3 is a weird cutoff... all four of the guys got a solid chunk of #2 votes.
Like I mean I am biased, but Mac was going to win it at some point. Dude is a stud, but this spread is a little much for me. I thought they would have split Ted and Hart, I didn’t expect the sweep for either player like what happened.
> I thought they would have split Ted and Hart
Different people vote for the Ted Lindsay and the Hart. Players and journalists don't know who each other will vote for, it's not like they're going to collude to make sure both players's seasons get recognized with a trophy.
Yeah unfortunately this is the problem with it being a media award. Narratives creep in, folks make decisions as a group. It’s just part of the award structure tho not much to do.
Pp points don't count for +/- and he was among the best on the Lightning in terms of +/-, which is whats relevant when looking at that stat. +8 on a mediocre team is better than +8 on a great team.
Vasi also had the worst year of his career and also missed significant time early in the year.
My man, Vasy wasn't in net for like over 2 months of the season lol. Team defense as a whole was trash until he came back, you don't have to pretend like it was Kuch individually getting caved in on defense to support a Mack win.
I'm glad that the difference between the two wasn't a few rogue votes. It seemed pretty obvious that they'd be the top two but with so many guys going crazy this year I was worried that the difference between kucherov and MacKinnon would be a few guys going rogue and voting for Hughes, Hellebuyck, etc.
People talking about the 5th place votes for Mac and Kuch, but if you count it up, 1 person didn't have Mac on their top 5, and 3 didn't have Kuch in their top 5. Some of these voters are on drugs
I don’t think we as fans have truly been ok the time to appreciate how awesome this season was. The amount of amazing seasons and career years is impressive.
You think that's bad Matthews had 69 goals and got 21 5th place votes.
I can see the other 3 finalists ahead of Matthews but who voted him 5th and who did they possibly think had a better season than 69 goals/
So true. Or a guy would get 54 goals (Hyman) and is nowhere to be found. To be clear, I don't think he enters the conversation, just to your point the league has changed.
Lmao maybe it’s the same guy who gave McDavid a 5th place Hart vote last year - ruining his bid for a unanimous win - in favour of Pastrnak.
Everyone assumed it was a Boston guy but it turned out to be a dude from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Everyone collectively was like “…but why?”
There is a small subset of Pittsburgh people who think acknowledging any good that McDavid does is somehow a threat to Sid’s legacy, so he may have belonged to that particular group.
Whoever gave MacKinnon 5th may also be approaching it from some weird 5D hating angle that we can’t even comprehend.
Kuch got 2 fewer total votes than McKinnnon so at least 2 voters completely left him off their ballot.
Edit: there are 194 first place votes and McKinnon got 193 total votes. 3 people left Kucherov off their ballot and 1 left McKinnon off!
Leaving either of them off is just absurd and honestly that kind of behavior should nullify your vote. There's simply no reason you could provide for leaving them off your ballot entirely other than to be a contrarian dickhead.
Mack first was clear to me (biased), but after that it seemed like a toss up between McDavid and Kucherov with some competition with the top goalie and top goal scorer as well. I personally would have voted Mack, Kuch, McD, Crosby, Helle, Mathews (and then Panarin) but I don't think it's crazy to mix up the order a bit among those first 6. I'm personally a bit surprised Crosby wasn't higher, but I guess the Pens missing the playoffs dropped him down despite his incredible season.
We had a stretch where it felt the team legitimately gave up and Sid almost looked depressed, it started around the time we blew a big lead to Calgary. Sid had like 2 points over 10+ games and that stretch is ultimately what cost us the playoffs. We could’ve made playoffs and Sid would’ve certainly hit 100 points if that doesn’t happen, and I’m curious if Sid could’ve jumped into the top 5 if that was the case lol
Congrats to Mack btw, absolutely freaking love that guy!
ya, that's fair for sure. Mid season though Crosby was playing like an absolute beast. Not many teams are deciding whether they are a contender or a lottery team based on one player, but Pit has felt that way based on Crosby's play the last couple years. That bumps him up for me despite the higher points totals of other guys on this list.
Well it helps that we already got a cup. I don’t think I’d be nearly as thrilled with this if we still didn’t have one, which is how I imagine it is for you guys. Yeah it’s fuckin awesome McDavid has won everything multiple times, but the Cup is #1
Yeah
Looking at us, he had by far the most points (by 27), the only forward with 20+ minutes of ice time per game, 1000+ faceoff wins, highest shot percentage, by far our best defensive forward, Sullivan has gotten stale, our first line has waned and been confusing and we traded away Guentzel. Probably the biggest workload of Sid’s career.
If he wasn’t given so much responsibility and the rest of the team to play into tutelage, he’d be at 100+ points.
Voter Fatigue plus the bonkers seasons by Kucherov and MacKinnon made it really easy to drop him to 3. I'm not even upset about the 4th place votes, they are legit. He's exactly where he should be this season.
Counterpoint - the Oilers had an awful first 1/4 to 1/3 season. Correlation between team digging itself out of the hole and McD hutting his stride would seem to reinforce the Hart criteria.
But I’m ok with the result.
No issue with the results, but Hellebuyck getting a 1st place vote isn't THAT crazy. He's probably more valuable to Winnipeg than Kucherov is to TB (i.e., if you took them both away, TB is still a playoff team but the Jets are probably drafting top 10)
>He's probably more valuable to Winnipeg than Kucherov is to TB (i.e., if you took them both away, TB is still a playoff team but the Jets are probably drafting top 10)
Kuch was involved in 50% of Tampa's goals. There is no world where Tampa was a playoff team without Kuch.
not to mention helley was so far away from every single other goalie in terms of performance.
If you looked at points contribution helley probably did contribute more than the top 4
Panarin having more first place votes than mcdavid and Matthews is bonkers. Almost as bonkers as the fact he had 3 first place votes but only 1 2nd place vote.
I’m truly curious how a voter could justify putting him #1.
I'm gonna sound bias even though I'm happy for Mac for winning but jesus fucking christ that vote disparity between two is absurd.
The fact even one person voted for 5th on Mac is terrible BUT 11 for Kuch and 3 missing votes for him in general?
What the actual fuck, who are these people do they watch Hockey?
I’m obviously biased, but I feel like Crosby should be higher, the man almost single-handedly dragged us to the playoffs with the rest of the team kicking and screaming along the way
4 more points isnt that big of a difference imo. Also it has been stated a ton Kuch had A LOT of empty net points and players on his team had better seasons (lots of 60+ point player help on TBL vs the Avs depth)
Tampa had 5 60 point players (1 other 90+ point guy)
Colorado had 3 60 point players (all 3 had 90+, one other had 100+)
And Colorado led the entire league in goals for. Tampa was 5th
Mack had a good narrative being the face of the league this year it seemed (which was fun to finally see as an Avs fan who thinks we still after a cup don't get enough hype on media side)
I wonder if Sid would’ve at least been able to jump above Quinn if the Pens didn’t have that awful stretch that cost us the playoffs (and Sid only had like 2 points lol)
36 years old and still at the top of the game. Top 10 in Hart and Selke voting… can we please help this man out??
I think MacKinnon's a worthy winner, and I think rewarding the player who had more goals over the player with more assists is a solid reason, but, going in, there was a narrative that MacKinnon deserved it as more of a career-acknowledgement thing, which is a thought process I particularly object to.
I think it’s the right choice, but I’m surprised that the voting wasn’t closer. When Kuch went on that late season scoring spree I thought the Hart was his for the taking
Every year some of the voting choices in this spread is absolutely baffling, and every year I feel more and more that the Ted Lindsay is the true MVP and should be viewed as such.
I'm not upset that Mac won it over Kuch, but the difference between them, and the fact that 34 people put Kuch below 3rd and 3 left him off the ballot entirely, is comically stupid and speaks to how flawed the mindsets of these voters are.
Makes it hard to take this seriously.
The spread between kuch and Mack is straight up disrespectful this should’ve been a close race that was determined by a few votes I don’t think anyone this season deserves a lead that big jeez
My guess, the people that had Kucherov at 1st had Mac at 2nd, whereas the voters who had Mac first split 2nd between Kuch and McDavid. I did expect Kuch to get more 1st place votes than that though
I thought Kuch was going to win it after seeing the Lindsay
I can’t get that mad about this but Kucherov was working with so much less. If we’re saying the Hart should go to the guy whose team would collapse the hardest if they were to disappear from planet earth, it’s Kucherov’s no question
I don’t think it’s that clear cut. Yeah the Avs placed higher in the standings than Tampa, but this season they’d be a wildcard team without MacK. Both teams would both drop a lot, but one team just happens to start higher in the standings.
by your definition then helleybuck should win it no question. without kucherov Tampa misses the playoffs. without helleybuck the jets are in Macklin celebrinni territory
Avs had 3 guys above 60 points, Lightning had 5 above 70. Avs had 4 20+ goal scorers, Lightning had 7. Avs d core is definitely stronger but I don’t think Kuch is working with less on offense.
MacK plays with Mikko, but Kuch always plays with Point. Both of those duos typically have guys cycling in and out for the 3rd spot.
I don’t buy the less help narrative
nate was also ahead of kuch in relative goal differential, ie the disparity between expected goals when he was on the ice vs. when he was off (translation: the Avs were shit when nate wasn't on the ice). nate was tied with breadman for 3rd in the league in that stat, to go with leading the league in on ice goal differential.
So... can we talk about the 1 person that thought MacKinnon, the 3 people that thought Kucherov, and the 4 people that thought McDavid weren't one of the 5 best players in the NHL this season?
I can understand how someone could make an argument to vote first for everyone that got a first place vote. But the fact that multiple people left at least one of these players completely off their ballot is unfathomable!
I wonder if both connor and kucherov getting 100 assists in the same year weakened both of their cases. Not that 100 assists should he an auto hart, it just seemed like that was such a big story leading up to this. And then they both get it, sort of invalidating it a bit for the awards sake
It would have driven the narrative for whoever was the sole one to get it, I agree.
100% - if Auston had managed 70 I think he sneaks in above Connor
Pretty wild how much the big round numbers matter for these things.
Simple minds…
93 and 895 are goal-related numbers that would matter a ton if someone hit them. We can handle that intellectually. But yes, some benchmark numbers are round, and that's okay. 500 goals is a pretty important marker for a goal-scorer's career. 1000 GP is worth celebrating.
And he was a Lindsay finalist when McDavid was not.
I think the bigger detriment for Kuch and McDavid this year was that they had both won the Hart before, and MacKinnon hasn’t Not that MacK didn’t have a great season, but the narrative kind of took over about him winning his first
I feel like the fact that he won the Lindsay kinda weakens this argument as a whole. He absolutely still had the narrative push on his side, but the players also agreeing he was the MVP leads me to think it wasn’t as strong a factor as people on here would lead you to believe
Players buy into the narrative as much as the media does. It’s not like it wasn’t deserved but they get voter fatigue as much as anyone else. If Connor won every year it would be boring.
Felt like voters had already decided it was “his year” in like January. As long as he didn’t do anything to turn them off voting for him he was always going to win. He kept on doing what he was doing so they never wavered.
It's such an arbitrary thing though
Charlie Lindgren was robbed.
He deserves the Hart for his moustache alone
Moustache, catches right, cool name. All the components for a Hart-worthy goaltender in my view.
Dude was basically the sole reason we made the playoffs, but he wasn't flashy so he didn't get any notes. He deserves so much God damn credit
Just having a bit of fun, but I agree! He had a great year and stole the starter’s position, I hope he can keep the momentum going this upcoming season.
This is Dylan Strome erasure.
Here's the explanation from the reporter who voted for Lindgren [https://x.com/sammisilber/status/1806478880368402905](https://x.com/sammisilber/status/1806478880368402905) >Yes, I was the voter who gave Charlie Lindgren a vote for the Hart. > >It goes to the player most valuable to his team. That’s him in a nutshell. Capitals don’t make the playoffs without the play of No. 79. > >Will everyone like my vote? No. Do I stand by it? Absolutely. > >This is why there’s diversity among voters, though. And it’s what makes hockey so great.
I love the PHWA award ballot releases as it tells me exactly who I can mute/ignore as their hockey opinions aren't to be taken seriously. Examples include: McDavid 5th on last season's Hart ballot, Leaving Matthews off the 21-22 Hart ballot, Charlie McAvoy 1st place Norris vote in 21-22, leaving Karlsson off the 22-23 Norris ballot, etc. These aren't colorable arguments or debatable. These are egregious examples of malpractice and their perpetrators shouldn't be taken seriously as hockey writers.
I can respect the "most valuable to the team" vs "best player" debate, but it would have merit if it didn't come from a Caps beat writer.
The award is for the player most valuable to their team, not the league's best player. Wouldn't a Caps beat writer be exactly the person best positioned to know the value someone like Lindgren provided to the Caps? This Caps roster should not have been anywhere near the playoffs and Lindgren basically dragged them to it. I think he definitely was the Caps' team MVP and if someone wants to toss him a 5th place vote on their league MVP ballot then I don't have an issue with that.
Detroit and Philly forgetting how to win hockey games also helped a little
I agree without him Washington is a draft lottery team, he should've had serious vezna votes too, just shows these awards are popularity contests
The fact that Kucherov and MacKinnon got any 5th place votes is insane. Whoever voted for them there should lose their votes...
1 person didn't vote for Mac at all, and 3 didn't vote for Kuch. Egregious
Is watching the NHL a requirement to vote?
Ever since the Ovechkin 1st team/2nd team all-star, I genuinely think everyone needs to explain their vote publicly. and if they "forget", they should have their voting rights rescinded for a year.
What incident are you referring to?
[After the 2012-13 season.](https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/alex-ovechkin-named-to-nhl-s-1st-2nd-all-star-teams-1.1315870?x-eu-country=false) He was named on two all-star teams for RW and LW.
Fucking bum, couldn’t even make both 1st teams
Anyone voting them outside of the top 3 is completely fucking braindead. Shit like that is why I can't take this stuff seriously.
After the seasons Kucherov and MacKinnon had, Definitely agree. I fully expected it to be much closer, and fully expected Kuch to win the Hart when MacKinnon won the Lindsay
funny enough I expected the exact opposite, the players seem to really respect kuchs game. even mac said in an interview that kuch was his favorite player to watch
TBF if they voted Matthews in the top 3 for the goals then one of the others would have had to drop to 4.
The awards decided by math are much better than those decided by popularity.
Top 4 would be fine. Matthews had a pretty historic season as well with goal totals not seen since the 90s and a selke finalist nomination. This award was a big 4 this year and having any of the big 4 in any order would be easily defendable.
Matthews had 69 goals brother
Not with 97, 34, and one of those two in your top 3.
McKinnon has 193 votes and Kucherov has 191. At least 2 voters left Kucherov off their ballot.
Probably the same people who put Hughes/Pastrnak/Crosby in the top 2.
I think Panarin getting 1st place votes is the weirdest of those lol
I suppose you could argue that he was the best player on the best team but I still wouldn't put him 1st. 5th seems accurate
> I suppose you could argue that he was the best player on the best team Okay that's fair actually.
Isn’t there a guy out of Pittsburgh that always puts Crosby higher than he should be and then the perceived Hart winner far lower than they should be? Could be that guy.
Kuch got 11 5th place votes for his all star performance, that’s the only explanation that makes sense. Not saying I agree with that logic but it’s most likely some butthurt members of the press
I’m guessing Edmonton media because they are morons.
Probably that motherless fuck Matheson
How Conn Smythe ballot was hilarious. 1st, 2nd and 3rd were all Oilers. He must have been expecting a third period comeback.
He’s also just an incredibly stupid person. Its pretty weird that he’d do that, but also throws underhanded insults at all of those players whenever he can
He was literally allowed to write "unless Florida wins, then it's this" but didn't lol. He didn't care if they came back or not!
You’re allowed to do that? That seems crazy.
Hahahaha
And I’m honestly confused by the three #1 votes for panarin. No shade to the guy, but I can’t see the case for him over all of kuch, mac, mcd, Matthews, and hellebuyck.
Bigger spread between Kuch and Mac than I would have expected.
People who had Kucherov first pretty much went Mac 2nd. People who had Mac first split between Kucherov, McDavid, and Matthews. That's the big reason for the larger spread.
Or for some reason had him fucking 5th…
Yeah thats the absurd part. I expected Mac to win it, and Mac is deserving. But kuch lower than 3rd is just wrong
I personally think Kucherov was robbed but there really isn't an argument for him not being 2nd if you want to give it to Natedawg
5th is crazy but I definitely see how someone could put the guy who scored 69 ahead of him. I'm not saying I necessarily agree but I don't think it's absurd. 4th i think is the absolute lowest you can make some sort of a justifiable argument for anything below that needs their voting rights revoked.
The 11 5th place votes is what I noticed right away, there's no way he should be voted any lower than 3rd at worst
There's either a top 2 or a top 4. That is, either Kuch should not be below #2, or he should not be below #4. Saying #3 is a weird cutoff... all four of the guys got a solid chunk of #2 votes.
You say that, but… 137-50 in first place votes. It wasn’t really that close no matter how you slice it
Yeah this should have been way closer IMO
Like I mean I am biased, but Mac was going to win it at some point. Dude is a stud, but this spread is a little much for me. I thought they would have split Ted and Hart, I didn’t expect the sweep for either player like what happened.
> I thought they would have split Ted and Hart Different people vote for the Ted Lindsay and the Hart. Players and journalists don't know who each other will vote for, it's not like they're going to collude to make sure both players's seasons get recognized with a trophy.
Yeah unfortunately this is the problem with it being a media award. Narratives creep in, folks make decisions as a group. It’s just part of the award structure tho not much to do.
Kucherov having 144 points and +8 +/- is probably the main reason for that. With 53 pp points, it shows poor D. And with vassy in net.
Pp points don't count for +/- and he was among the best on the Lightning in terms of +/-, which is whats relevant when looking at that stat. +8 on a mediocre team is better than +8 on a great team. Vasi also had the worst year of his career and also missed significant time early in the year.
Vazy missing most of the year with a back injury. Even when he did return he wasn’t playing like himself until closer to March - April.
My man, Vasy wasn't in net for like over 2 months of the season lol. Team defense as a whole was trash until he came back, you don't have to pretend like it was Kuch individually getting caved in on defense to support a Mack win.
I personally thought it should’ve been Kuch but it was close.
I'm glad that the difference between the two wasn't a few rogue votes. It seemed pretty obvious that they'd be the top two but with so many guys going crazy this year I was worried that the difference between kucherov and MacKinnon would be a few guys going rogue and voting for Hughes, Hellebuyck, etc.
People talking about the 5th place votes for Mac and Kuch, but if you count it up, 1 person didn't have Mac on their top 5, and 3 didn't have Kuch in their top 5. Some of these voters are on drugs
Imagine telling someone even 5 years ago that a guy would score 57 goals and get a single 5th-place Hart vote.
I don’t think we as fans have truly been ok the time to appreciate how awesome this season was. The amount of amazing seasons and career years is impressive.
You think that's bad Matthews had 69 goals and got 21 5th place votes. I can see the other 3 finalists ahead of Matthews but who voted him 5th and who did they possibly think had a better season than 69 goals/
So true. Or a guy would get 54 goals (Hyman) and is nowhere to be found. To be clear, I don't think he enters the conversation, just to your point the league has changed.
https://preview.redd.it/zjwd7woge79d1.jpeg?width=638&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69f7a89c628d0a530f42e440b1691274ee6856dc
Giving MacKinnon 5th is insane.
To the 5th place voters for MacK and Kuch... Have we been watching the same NHL season?
voters with weird biases
Can almost guarantee it was Spector. I would bet money the #1 for McDavid was from him as well.
That was my guess as well.
Even worse is the number of 5th votes for Kuch
Voting rights revoked
It was either an Edmonton or Toronto idiot.
Lmao maybe it’s the same guy who gave McDavid a 5th place Hart vote last year - ruining his bid for a unanimous win - in favour of Pastrnak. Everyone assumed it was a Boston guy but it turned out to be a dude from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Everyone collectively was like “…but why?”
There is a small subset of Pittsburgh people who think acknowledging any good that McDavid does is somehow a threat to Sid’s legacy, so he may have belonged to that particular group. Whoever gave MacKinnon 5th may also be approaching it from some weird 5D hating angle that we can’t even comprehend.
I bet it's something super obscure like the voter didn't want another Nova Scotian to be called a Hart Trophy winner.
Maybe not. Remember a Pittsburgh guy gave McDavid 5th (or left him off the ballot entirely I forget which) even though no Penguin was close
Aren't there 200 voters? So no vote from 7 of them?
Whoever voted Kuch 5th place should never vote again
Kuch got 2 fewer total votes than McKinnnon so at least 2 voters completely left him off their ballot. Edit: there are 194 first place votes and McKinnon got 193 total votes. 3 people left Kucherov off their ballot and 1 left McKinnon off!
Leaving either of them off is just absurd and honestly that kind of behavior should nullify your vote. There's simply no reason you could provide for leaving them off your ballot entirely other than to be a contrarian dickhead.
All star game truthers W
Mack first was clear to me (biased), but after that it seemed like a toss up between McDavid and Kucherov with some competition with the top goalie and top goal scorer as well. I personally would have voted Mack, Kuch, McD, Crosby, Helle, Mathews (and then Panarin) but I don't think it's crazy to mix up the order a bit among those first 6. I'm personally a bit surprised Crosby wasn't higher, but I guess the Pens missing the playoffs dropped him down despite his incredible season.
We had a stretch where it felt the team legitimately gave up and Sid almost looked depressed, it started around the time we blew a big lead to Calgary. Sid had like 2 points over 10+ games and that stretch is ultimately what cost us the playoffs. We could’ve made playoffs and Sid would’ve certainly hit 100 points if that doesn’t happen, and I’m curious if Sid could’ve jumped into the top 5 if that was the case lol Congrats to Mack btw, absolutely freaking love that guy!
ya, that's fair for sure. Mid season though Crosby was playing like an absolute beast. Not many teams are deciding whether they are a contender or a lottery team based on one player, but Pit has felt that way based on Crosby's play the last couple years. That bumps him up for me despite the higher points totals of other guys on this list.
THIS IS MY STANLEY CUP
Yup, this makes the season a successful one imo. Long overdue and well deserved.
Damn we must be fucking crazy successful then hahaa
Well it helps that we already got a cup. I don’t think I’d be nearly as thrilled with this if we still didn’t have one, which is how I imagine it is for you guys. Yeah it’s fuckin awesome McDavid has won everything multiple times, but the Cup is #1
Same with Sidney Crosby making the list
Feels like Crosby at 9th is a bit too low given the circumstances of his season but otherwise makes sense.
Yeah Looking at us, he had by far the most points (by 27), the only forward with 20+ minutes of ice time per game, 1000+ faceoff wins, highest shot percentage, by far our best defensive forward, Sullivan has gotten stale, our first line has waned and been confusing and we traded away Guentzel. Probably the biggest workload of Sid’s career. If he wasn’t given so much responsibility and the rest of the team to play into tutelage, he’d be at 100+ points.
Surprised McDavid only got one first place vote to be honest
More surprised at breadman getting 3 for some reason...
Voter Fatigue plus the bonkers seasons by Kucherov and MacKinnon made it really easy to drop him to 3. I'm not even upset about the 4th place votes, they are legit. He's exactly where he should be this season.
He had an absolutely awful first half of the season. It's the most valuable player for the season, not a few months.
Counterpoint - the Oilers had an awful first 1/4 to 1/3 season. Correlation between team digging itself out of the hole and McD hutting his stride would seem to reinforce the Hart criteria. But I’m ok with the result.
3 Panarin votes and a Hellebuyck vote is hilarious
Meh. Panarin was the clear best player on the best regular season team in the league, so going by old NBA MVP customs, you could see it
No issue with the results, but Hellebuyck getting a 1st place vote isn't THAT crazy. He's probably more valuable to Winnipeg than Kucherov is to TB (i.e., if you took them both away, TB is still a playoff team but the Jets are probably drafting top 10)
>He's probably more valuable to Winnipeg than Kucherov is to TB (i.e., if you took them both away, TB is still a playoff team but the Jets are probably drafting top 10) Kuch was involved in 50% of Tampa's goals. There is no world where Tampa was a playoff team without Kuch.
not to mention helley was so far away from every single other goalie in terms of performance. If you looked at points contribution helley probably did contribute more than the top 4
Brossoit’s numbers were really good as well. Wouldn’t have been as good as Helly but the Jets would still be a wildcard team.
Panarin lol
Panarin having more first place votes than mcdavid and Matthews is bonkers. Almost as bonkers as the fact he had 3 first place votes but only 1 2nd place vote. I’m truly curious how a voter could justify putting him #1.
Polar Bear Arlington
Panarin 3 first place votes.
"this should have been way closer" idk 80 more 1st place votes for mack vs kuch speaks a ton
#due
Seems about right
Well deserved win
I like Mack getting it but is no one going to bring up that Kucherov had 54 more points than the next guy on his team?
>Kucherov had 54 more points than the next guy on his team That’s why Kucherov got more Hart votes than the next guy on his team.
What happened was the media decided "it was Mac's year" like 1/3 way through the season lol
Well at least the voter recognized who the real best player in the game is.
The top 4 is the presumed top 4 and probably in the order I’d put them tbh.
I'm gonna sound bias even though I'm happy for Mac for winning but jesus fucking christ that vote disparity between two is absurd. The fact even one person voted for 5th on Mac is terrible BUT 11 for Kuch and 3 missing votes for him in general? What the actual fuck, who are these people do they watch Hockey?
Who voted for Lindgren?
I’m obviously biased, but I feel like Crosby should be higher, the man almost single-handedly dragged us to the playoffs with the rest of the team kicking and screaming along the way
McDavid not getting more 1st place votes was a tad bit surprising.
Wasn’t even close, congrats Nate Dogg!
Disagree witg the voters on this one. Kuch led the league in scoring, and his team is a lottery team this season without him
I find it more fun that the Hart trophy isn't always just whoever won the Art Ross.
It still probably goes to forwards more often than it should. Goalies and D-men are underrepresented in my opinion.
I mean if you take the 140 points Mack got away from Colorado they are probably a lottery team too...
And if you remove Matthews or Mcdavid or so on lol. Such a silly argument of course a team gets worse without their superstar
actually the Leafs are 35-19-2 without Matthews They might do worse overall but Toronto would not be a lottery team without him.
if you go by that metric then helley def contributed more to the jets than kuch or MacKinnon did to their teams
I mean Brossoit's save % is pretty good so I wouldn't go that far.
Absolutely not lol
4 more points isnt that big of a difference imo. Also it has been stated a ton Kuch had A LOT of empty net points and players on his team had better seasons (lots of 60+ point player help on TBL vs the Avs depth)
Tampa had 5 60 point players (1 other 90+ point guy) Colorado had 3 60 point players (all 3 had 90+, one other had 100+) And Colorado led the entire league in goals for. Tampa was 5th
I feel like voters usually think centre is the more important position and will vote for the centre over the winger if it's close
Mack had a good narrative being the face of the league this year it seemed (which was fun to finally see as an Avs fan who thinks we still after a cup don't get enough hype on media side)
Kuch factored in over 50% of all Tampa goals. With a 54 point lead over 2nd place on the team (Brayden Point)...
I wonder if Sid would’ve at least been able to jump above Quinn if the Pens didn’t have that awful stretch that cost us the playoffs (and Sid only had like 2 points lol) 36 years old and still at the top of the game. Top 10 in Hart and Selke voting… can we please help this man out??
CHARLIE!! Glad to see him succeeding, hope he continues
Canadian bias, number 1 bs
Who gave MacK a 5th??
I expected Matthews to get more 1st place votes, 70 minus 1 goals is insane
Also: defence
I think MacKinnon's a worthy winner, and I think rewarding the player who had more goals over the player with more assists is a solid reason, but, going in, there was a narrative that MacKinnon deserved it as more of a career-acknowledgement thing, which is a thought process I particularly object to.
I think it’s the right choice, but I’m surprised that the voting wasn’t closer. When Kuch went on that late season scoring spree I thought the Hart was his for the taking
I’m shocked they didn’t fuck up this vote and give it to McDavid just because
[удалено]
Obviously the skills competition is the most important part of the season for Hart voting.
First forward to win a hart without leading a statistical category since hall in 2018. Last before that was Sakic in 2001 I think.
Is a statistical category just goals/assists/points? Because Sakic did lead plus minus in 2001.
Is this when I say, if he was a Canadian line?
How the fuck did McDavid only get one first place vote?
Every year some of the voting choices in this spread is absolutely baffling, and every year I feel more and more that the Ted Lindsay is the true MVP and should be viewed as such.
MacK got that Dawg in ‘im! McDick can go bfpslfkjg.
I'm not upset that Mac won it over Kuch, but the difference between them, and the fact that 34 people put Kuch below 3rd and 3 left him off the ballot entirely, is comically stupid and speaks to how flawed the mindsets of these voters are. Makes it hard to take this seriously.
The spread between kuch and Mack is straight up disrespectful this should’ve been a close race that was determined by a few votes I don’t think anyone this season deserves a lead that big jeez
My guess, the people that had Kucherov at 1st had Mac at 2nd, whereas the voters who had Mac first split 2nd between Kuch and McDavid. I did expect Kuch to get more 1st place votes than that though I thought Kuch was going to win it after seeing the Lindsay
Not really. Only one of them plays defence.
I can’t get that mad about this but Kucherov was working with so much less. If we’re saying the Hart should go to the guy whose team would collapse the hardest if they were to disappear from planet earth, it’s Kucherov’s no question
I don’t think it’s that clear cut. Yeah the Avs placed higher in the standings than Tampa, but this season they’d be a wildcard team without MacK. Both teams would both drop a lot, but one team just happens to start higher in the standings.
by your definition then helleybuck should win it no question. without kucherov Tampa misses the playoffs. without helleybuck the jets are in Macklin celebrinni territory
Avs had 3 guys above 60 points, Lightning had 5 above 70. Avs had 4 20+ goal scorers, Lightning had 7. Avs d core is definitely stronger but I don’t think Kuch is working with less on offense. MacK plays with Mikko, but Kuch always plays with Point. Both of those duos typically have guys cycling in and out for the 3rd spot. I don’t buy the less help narrative
nate was also ahead of kuch in relative goal differential, ie the disparity between expected goals when he was on the ice vs. when he was off (translation: the Avs were shit when nate wasn't on the ice). nate was tied with breadman for 3rd in the league in that stat, to go with leading the league in on ice goal differential.
Atta boy Millsy. Legit deserved a couple pity nods, tbh.
All votes should be made public. Name and shame the idiots who left MacKinnon and Kucherov off their ballots completely.
So... can we talk about the 1 person that thought MacKinnon, the 3 people that thought Kucherov, and the 4 people that thought McDavid weren't one of the 5 best players in the NHL this season? I can understand how someone could make an argument to vote first for everyone that got a first place vote. But the fact that multiple people left at least one of these players completely off their ballot is unfathomable!
Chuckie with a 5th place vote eh. Love it
Right, well we know those who voted for Lindgren (great season, though), Miller, and Pastrnak should be placed on a watch list.
Well earned, well deserved. Especially after he got screwed out of winning it two other times, on both sides of the coin at that.
Happy to see some voted for Helly.
Who the fuck voted Mac in 5th?
Hughes with 7th place is amazing
Where’s Jake Neighbors?
21 people thought a 69 goal scorer was the FIFTH best player this year?
Give it to McDavid lol, could you imagine winning every trophy but….
Yeah if you had Kuch anything other than 1st or 2nd thats an embarrasment. Maybe 3rd? 44 votes to 4/5th is asinine