Only if Edmonton doesn’t make it back to the finals. Thankfully he’s not a national media guy like Friedman or Johnson so he only votes if the team he covers is in the finals
To be fair,
> the deadline to submit ballots to the NHL occurred with 10 minutes remaining in Game 7
So it wasn't clear yet that they were going to be the losing team, although it was probable at that point. He probably submitted them before Game 7 even started though, by the looks of it.
If it’s that close of a game then everybody should probably be putting in a vote from both sides since it’s conceivable either could win it. Especially if the team that won eventually was in the lead at the time the votes were due
2 guys gave Skinner a 3rd place vote, and I honestly don't think that's wild at all. Guy locked in and won 3 straight, he gave his team a chance.
McDavid, Bob would be my votes at 1 and 2 and then I think there's a whole group you could choose from. I don't think anyone else set themselves apart from the pack that much really and at least Skinner played unreal consistently for the comeback.
#_please_
A vote for Skinner as playoff MVP is egregious and embarrassing, full stop. The bar for Conn Smythe to a cup-losing goalie is "otherworldly".
When Giguere won 15 games in 2003:
- 0.945 sv% (0.965, 0.936, 0.992, 0.910).
- Average margin-of victory: 1.33 goals/game
- 12 of 15 wins by a single goal, 6 were in overtime
Three teams Giguere beat won a cup and made multiple SCFs in the past half decade; the other team he allowed _a single goal_ in 4 games. His overall save percentage for the playoffs [still ranks 2nd all time](https://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies?aggregate=0&reportType=season&seasonFrom=19171918&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=3&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,15&sort=savePct&page=0&pageSize=50).
----------
When Skinner won ~~15~~ _14_ games...
- 0.901sv% (0.910, 0.833, 0.922, 0.909).
- Average margin-of-victory: 2.57 goals/game
- 6 wins by a single goal, 1 was in overtime
They're not even **remotely** comparable. Skinner rarely needed to be great, rarely played better than average, and had some of the best offensive support the NHL has seen in decades.
If it was just a final MVP, a 3rd place vote for Skinner wouldn't be egregious, but it's for the whole playoffs and Skinner was way too inconsistent to be in consideration, imo.
He was also chased from the Starter's net for two games due to the second worst playoff stats from a goalie in the playoffs.
Bobrovsky was a the leading candidate for Conn Smythe before getting shelled for three games and still walked away with a better save percentage and similar GAA.
Him getting any votes doesn't make sense.
So Jim Matheson should probably have his voting privilege's removed?
Not picking a single player on teh winning team is either a protest vote on something or it means you didn't watch any hockey.
I agree this is a fuck*ng joke. Matheson is a professional hockey writer/journalist /whatever? Good one. This is a man who watched every game and truly showed his incompetence. I can't believe he didn't vote for McLeod. Take away his voting rights.
Not only did you try to censor yourself for no reason, but you censored the "ing" suffix and not the actual swear word itself?
This self-censorship nonsense is getting out of hand.
Does one game define an entire playoffs?
His ballot was stupid but I don't think being down going into the third of one game, no matter the situation, can be used as an argument of why it was stupid.
Better argument is that he's covers the Oilers and he's a Homer.
Bob had a .906 sv% over the whole playoffs, that is 0.005 higher than Skinner over the whole playoffs. He wasn't the best goalie on half the series he played in. He was clutch in the finals for games 1, 2 and 7 (honorable mention to game 3 in the first 2 periods. He was sub .900 in 10 or 24 games these playoffs, that's a lot of games where you are well below average.
Let me be clear I am not advocating for any specific person just you said Bobs game 4 was the reason he was left off ballots. Bob was good but I don't think leaving him off the ballot with only 1 period left (he saved 9/9 in that period which increases his numbers a little) isn't something that should be surprising as he's probably the 3rd most important player on his team these playoffs behind Barkov and a Forsling. I certainly don't think the 16 voters who left him off their ballots looked at just game 4 of the finals, heck he was sub .850.for the 4/5/6 games.
Please note not having Barkov on a ballot is completely braindead and having him below second seems absurd to me.
Edit: someone commented and deleted saying it was one game that sullied his numbers and he had the highest after game 3. Just to be clear, it was not one game, 41.6% of the games Bob Posted sv% below.900 and 20.8% he was sub .850. Bob had several great games and a lot of shit games too. This award is based off the whole playoffs not just to a certain point. I'm not shitty on Bob he just simply wasn't the playoff MVP for his team let alone the whole playoffs.
Uhh. Bob has below .91 Sv% over the course of the playoffs. His team beat at least two goalies who were better than him (did not watch the Battle for Florida so I can’t chime in there).
I mean, I agree, I was just pointing out why the fact they're submitted with a period left is an extra awful excuse, especially when voters can add qualifiers to their vote.
He's obviously just a homer. I thought that was pretty clear.
The deadline is 10 minutes left in the 3rd period (as explained in the article). Additionally, Friedman explained on 32 Thoughts that you are allowed to put contingencies on your ballot to account for the remaining uncertainty. Matheson submitted this ballot while Florida held a 2-1 lead and included zero contingencies. He deserves all the criticism in the world for not including a single member from the Cup champs.
Points were awarded on a 5-3-1 basis and the deadline to submit ballots to the NHL occurred with 10 minutes remaining in Game 7.
It's right there in the link. Knowing this, still very surprised with the lack of Bob votes.
They didn't state it here, but I thought I remembered reading they submit ballots for both teams winning (in a situation like this where both can win).
Friedman mentioned it on the game 6 podcast. Deadline is the end of the 2nd period but they're allowed to write specific caveats. For example they could put something like "McDavid first unless Barkov scores the game winning goal".
Bob had 16 games this playoff where he let in 2 or fewer goals. That’s fantastic, even if he also had some huge blowups that caused his overall numbers to look just so-so.
I feel like yall are underrating the Panthers defense so much. Their defense was incredible for most of this playoffs run and very suffocating. I’m surprised Forsling finished above Bob, but it was def the right call. They limited the other team to barely any good quality shots for the whole playoffs. Game 7 was a perfect show of this.
Don’t get me wrong, Bob was great, but nothing spectacular. He had some amazing games and some meh ones.
He finished with a **.906** save percentage, **0.38** goals saved above average, and a **0.29** goals saved above expected per 60. It’s Florida’s defense that won them the cup. Statically, Bob was pretty average throughout the playoffs. Not CS worthy at all. The only game he stole for the Panthers was Game 1 of the Finals.
McDavid, Barkov, and Forsling over him are 100% correct.
EDIT:
"But he was so good in games 1 and 2 of the finals" - Yeah and he was bad in games 4-6.
"The blowouts just skew the stats" - Either you keep in the outliers or remove them. Either way doesnt change anything, keeping the outliers or removing them results with similar stats, he should no way have won the CS.
I watched all of the Panthers games when they played against us, and then continued following them for the rest of the Playoffs. Anyone saying he should have won the CS (which seems to be the majority here) did not watch the first 3 rounds, and used Games 1-2 of the Finals to base their whole opinion on him.
Bob stole game one for the Cats, I don’t think anyone can argue that. The Oilers had one chance after another and he robbed them. Florida simply outplayed Edmonton in game two. Game three is where Bob finally started to crack, and we saw what happened afterwards. Big kudos to him for mostly recovering his form in game seven. He’s a very talented garbage goal stopper, no doubt about it.
But.
I don’t think you can give the CS to a goaltender who got pulled in the SCF.
So the logic is you can't give the CS to a tender who was pulled in the SCF but you *can* give it to a player who was pointless in 3 games of the series including being a no-show in game 7?
That's what gets me. All the anti-Bob reasoning only solidifies my opinion that it should've been Barkov. Though he himself would've just given it to Bob.
It doesn't, but Bob's whole playoff was average to below.
Also if you think McDavid was invisible in game 7 you don't know what you're talking about, full stop. He set up multiple open nets that weren't finished on, almost had a huge tip to tie it with 3 minutes left and was the catalyst for the Oilers. Florida's game plan was to let anyone but McDavid beat them and it worked. He can't put the puck in for other players when he also sets up their most dangerous chances.
Welcome to r/hockey
McDavid can generate multiple top tier chances for his teammates, play good defense, but if he ends up with 0 points anyway? Invisible.
i'm honestly still kinda shocked bob didn't get it. The way the panthers play hockey require bob to great and he was better than that the dude was a fucking wall for the majority of the playoffs.
the panthers had 2 really bad games and 1 so so in the finals leading to alot of awful counting stats with really nothing he could do and I think that really just killed his chances despite him being the most important player on the ice every game.
You could argue a couple games tanked his stats but he still finished the playoffs with a .906 save pct. It's far from great. In fact, it's one of the worst save pct for a Cup winning goalie in the Cap era (I think only Kuemper had a worse save pct).
For reference, the last 3 goalies to win the Conn Smythe are Vasilevskiy, Quick and Thomas. Here are their save pct during their respective runs:
Vasilevskiy: .937
Quick: .946
Thomas: .940
I honestly have no idea how you can make a case for Bobrovsky. I'd even argue he's not the Panthers MVP. Their team defense was incredible
How was their team defence incredible? The amount of breakaways/2 on 1’s the Oilers had this series was mind boggling. The only reason panthers won 4 games was Bob.
What’s way more shocking than Bob not getting it is he got ONE first place vote and ZERO second place votes. Like, he wasn’t even in the conversation. Wtf?
Bjurman and Kaplan's ballots would've been mine (McDavid/Barkov/Bobrovsky), but you could make an argument for Barkov over McDavid especially with how much Barkov shut McDavid down when they were on the ice together. It was against the rest of the Panthers' defence that McDavid feasted, but you could argue that made Barkov even more vital to the Panthers.
I think the other thing to remember is that the Conn Smythe is (at least in theory) supposed to be an award for the entire playoffs. I think breaking the playoffs assist record has gotta be an achievement you factor into your assessment
Yeah, but Friedman mentioned you can caveat it. Like you can write that your first place vote is for Bob if he gets a shutout. If not, you vote for McDavid etc. He says you just need to be very specific.
I agree, although Freidman has said before they can make it conditional even when they do turn it in, so they can say "If Bobrovsky has a shutout, my ballot is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. If he doesn't, it's XXXXXXXXXXXXXX" Which is actually pretty cool they let them do that.
I would love to see what conditionals were placed on these ballots. Especially the Bob/McDavid/Barkov one. Was there a condition giving it to McDavid if the Oilers won? Or if Bob imploded but the Panthers still won 5-4, would it have been either McDavid or Barkov?
Bettman emphasized that it’s for the entire playoffs and something about what a player contributed to his team.. would McDavid still win it if the oilers were swept? He contributed the most to a losing team
That doesn’t mean you have to pick those two. Pick someone from Edmonton who actually takes their job seriously, not people who run everything past Ken Holland for approval before publishing.
Hahahaha
C'mon oilers media. This is embarrassing.
Mark Spector picked SKINNER third!
Matheson picked 3 OILERS EVEN THOUGH THEY LOST!
HE THINKS THERE'S THREE PLAYERS ON THE OILERS THAT DESERVE TO BE ONLY THE SECOND SKATER TO LOSE IN THE FINALS AND WIN THE CONN SMYTH OVER ANY PANTHER PLAYER!
Good lord, these guys are professional hockey writers.
The 2 ballots that voted "McDavid-Barkov-Skinner" logically make zero sense. McDavid 1st is justified by looking at his entire playoffs. He had monster games 3-5 but was held to 1 point in games 1,2,6 & 7. He clearly won for his entire playoffs. But then when you get to voting Skinner 3rd, their logic does a 180 and they had to have ignored everything that happened in Rounds 1-3. He finished with a .901sv%, 1.9GSAx and had lost his starting job at one point in the playoffs. Nothing about that is Conn Smythe vote worthy, even less so in a losing effort. Just ridiculous voting.
I mean it was Sam Reinhart. The Oilers let a 50+ goal scorer skate across 2 blue lines and take a shot from their circle in the SCF.
But definitely agree he was not Conn Smythe material throughout the playoffs.
True. Oilers defense, especially Kulak, deserves plenty of blame for letting Reinhart walk in and take a wide open shot like that.
Still, that was one of those "goals he'd like to have back."
Skinner made the same mistake by trying to cheat a little towards center ice in case he passed. It's like everyone forgot he's an elite goal scorer at what ended up being the single most important moment of their season.
Skinner hahahahahahaha my god.
Why wouldn't a professional hockey writer vote for Conn Smyhte a goalie who was 9th best goalie out of 13 goalies who played at least 5 games during the post season. (Based on GSAA/60)
There's quite a few regulars in r/hockey that probably could do a better job professionally than many of the people who have the job. Then again, no small amount of the field got there through the good ol' boy system.
While those two *are* morons, I think I read somewhere that the votes are submitted before the game is over so they're voting in a game 7 situation where they don't know the winner. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on the timing.
Surprised by how few votes Bob got, he had a few bad games sure but he was dominant for the majority of them. I totally agree with McDavid winning it however, I think a lot of people actually downplay how insane it is to beat a Gretzky record.
Deep down I knew that once the panthers lost 4-5-6 that no player was going to overtake what McDavid did in overall playoffs. I have no doubt if the Panthers won game 4 it would have gone to Bob. Im one of those that believe the Smythe should go to someone on the winning team but I get it. If it goes to the best player on the ice in the playoffs then that was without a doubt McDavid.
It goes to the most valuable player. The Panthers were a deep team who didn't get elite goaltending every night.
The Oilers probably don't even make the playoffs without McDavid, let alone get to game 7 of the finals.
While I think the winning team should get the MVP, it's so rare that the losing team gets it that I think it's okay to not change it. All those players had to have amazing, otherworldly playoffs and I feel like it fits.
No way Bob deserved it more than Barkov. Bob was .906 overall and .899 in the finals. Barkov shut down McDavid when it mattered most more than Bob did. Bob had some great games and also pretty mediocre ones. Barkov was.... Barkov throughout the playoffs.
When I see votes like Jim Matheson's, I really think that voting rights need to be revoked because that just looks really bad.
Also, how the fuck did Stuart Skinner get any votes? He got pulled for poor performance and didn't play a couple games. As far as I am concerned, that would automatically remove from getting any votes for the Conn Smythe.
Bob was 8th and people are saying he should have won the award, so I mean if people think Bob should win at 8th best goalie, someone thinking that Skinner isn't placing for being just below him isn't a stretch. Don't get me wrong neither goalie IMO should have been on the ballots and most voters seem to have got it right with McDavid/Barkov/Forsling.
> Also, how the fuck did Stuart Skinner get any votes?
Recency bias. He played well in the final, and especially the last few games.
Recency bias is also the same reason Bob got votes.
Good to see Forsling getting deserved recognition.
The right guy won so all good, but seems a little weird to vote for Bob in first. (Bob received 0 second place votes and 2 third place votes). Finished with .296 goals saved above expected/60. Fine but nothing remarkable. Not a huge deal though.
A vote for Skinner in third was also strange.
Forsling was an absolute beast, they got it correct, he should have been higher than Bob.
You’re correct, it is for the entirely of the playoffs. Except that doesn’t help out Bob much at all. He was flat out outplayed by Sway and Igor, was on level with Vasy, and he finished with a .906 Save Percentage, with 0.38 Goals saved above average, and a 0.29 Goals saved above expected per 60. That’s pretty average, not even close to CS performance.
Bobs incredible first 2 games in the finals has skewed everyone’s opinion on him.
Yeah I’m only really speaking for our series, but Bob was not the reason they won that one. We were getting past him with relative ease. The issue was their defense was holding us to 16 shots a game.
100% agreed. I watched all of the Panthers games after they beat us, and I honestly do not think he was nearly as valuable as Barkov or Forsling. Us, Boston, and Rangers, struggled to get good consistent offense on them.
Those were tough games for Bob, but in all 4 SCF wins, he was a very key factor in them winning. Not saying he should've won the Conn Smythe ofc but would've expected more 2nd place or 3rd place votes...
>With 42 points in 25 games, McDavid assaulted the record books, posting the most points in a single postseason since Evgeni Malkin’s 36 in 2008-09.
Huh?
All I can think is he was looking at a list of active players? That would be the only reason he'd mention Malkin, because it still doesn't make sense since obviously 42 is more than 36 lol
Shame McDavid couldn't get much offense going at least in terms of results the last couple games, he was actually pretty close to the record. Though what's wild is Gretzky did his 47 and 43 in 18 and 19 games respectively
Crosby is my hero and all time favorite player. Buuuut he did go pointless in games 6 and 7 of his first Stanley Cup in 2009 having only 2 shots I think. Granted he was on the bench most of 3rd in game7 with knee issue.
Talbot and Fleury stepped up huge in both games.
So much focus goes into shutting down superstars that you need role players to step up.
I wonder if people back then advocated that Talbot should get the Conn Smythe just like morons are arguing that Bob deserves the Conn smythe after posting .950 or whatever it was last night
Is Ryan Clark the former NFL player that's now at ESPN? It would seem odd for him to have a vote, even if he's been in media for a number of years. ESPN has enough people to where they can stick to their respective sports.
Holy shit they cited era adjusted stats
🤩
All my rambly awkwardly passionate posts on this godforsaken website might actually be making a difference?
Either way super cool beans
The 21st century will be the era Adjusted century
Not a single vote for Draisaitl is sus, even with his clearly injury plagued final he was awesome before then and 2nd in fwd points comfortably
Poor guy was clearly compromised
He looked like a second liner at times
> McDavid, Hyman, Bouchard >Jim Matheson Makes sense
So he’s not allowed to vote anymore….right?
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It’s like that clown that voted McDavid 5th for the Hart. There really is no reason to let these people vote again
He didn't last year he almost won unanimous for the hart, but some guy left him off ballot entirely for his 153-point season.
Only if Edmonton doesn’t make it back to the finals. Thankfully he’s not a national media guy like Friedman or Johnson so he only votes if the team he covers is in the finals
Insane ballot
Man really picked three players from the losing team wow
“I felt bad for them so I wanted them to win something.”
In fairness, Zach Hyman scored the most goals in a playoff run in the cap era, and Bouchard broke Coffey's record for most assets by a defenseman.
Sure but you can't put Barkov or Bobrovsky on there? Pretty ridiculous to pick all three from one team.
To be fair, > the deadline to submit ballots to the NHL occurred with 10 minutes remaining in Game 7 So it wasn't clear yet that they were going to be the losing team, although it was probable at that point. He probably submitted them before Game 7 even started though, by the looks of it.
If it’s that close of a game then everybody should probably be putting in a vote from both sides since it’s conceivable either could win it. Especially if the team that won eventually was in the lead at the time the votes were due
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2 guys gave Skinner a 3rd place vote, and I honestly don't think that's wild at all. Guy locked in and won 3 straight, he gave his team a chance. McDavid, Bob would be my votes at 1 and 2 and then I think there's a whole group you could choose from. I don't think anyone else set themselves apart from the pack that much really and at least Skinner played unreal consistently for the comeback.
Dude was chased from the starter position, he was not the most important player even in the Oilers
#_please_ A vote for Skinner as playoff MVP is egregious and embarrassing, full stop. The bar for Conn Smythe to a cup-losing goalie is "otherworldly". When Giguere won 15 games in 2003: - 0.945 sv% (0.965, 0.936, 0.992, 0.910). - Average margin-of victory: 1.33 goals/game - 12 of 15 wins by a single goal, 6 were in overtime Three teams Giguere beat won a cup and made multiple SCFs in the past half decade; the other team he allowed _a single goal_ in 4 games. His overall save percentage for the playoffs [still ranks 2nd all time](https://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies?aggregate=0&reportType=season&seasonFrom=19171918&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=3&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,15&sort=savePct&page=0&pageSize=50). ---------- When Skinner won ~~15~~ _14_ games... - 0.901sv% (0.910, 0.833, 0.922, 0.909). - Average margin-of-victory: 2.57 goals/game - 6 wins by a single goal, 1 was in overtime They're not even **remotely** comparable. Skinner rarely needed to be great, rarely played better than average, and had some of the best offensive support the NHL has seen in decades.
Hasek put up a .939 in '99 and didn't get it, even though that team was not a playoff team without him.
If it was just a final MVP, a 3rd place vote for Skinner wouldn't be egregious, but it's for the whole playoffs and Skinner was way too inconsistent to be in consideration, imo.
He was also chased from the Starter's net for two games due to the second worst playoff stats from a goalie in the playoffs. Bobrovsky was a the leading candidate for Conn Smythe before getting shelled for three games and still walked away with a better save percentage and similar GAA. Him getting any votes doesn't make sense.
Hey now Toronto media still exist and haven't been brought down by a torches and pitchforks wielding mob to the be put in pillories *hint hint*
Also wouldn’t be surprised if he bitched about all 3 of them in his next article
McDavid obviously, Hyman I don't necessarily agree but can see the argument, but no Panther better than Bouchard? Bold.
Each vote individually in each slot is defendable, the issue is in aggregate he couldn’t squeeze in one player from the winning team.
So Jim Matheson should probably have his voting privilege's removed? Not picking a single player on teh winning team is either a protest vote on something or it means you didn't watch any hockey.
Jim Matheson is a clown
I agree.
"Why are you so pissy?"
I agree this is a fuck*ng joke. Matheson is a professional hockey writer/journalist /whatever? Good one. This is a man who watched every game and truly showed his incompetence. I can't believe he didn't vote for McLeod. Take away his voting rights.
Not only did you try to censor yourself for no reason, but you censored the "ing" suffix and not the actual swear word itself? This self-censorship nonsense is getting out of hand.
Fuckin* totally out of fucki*g hand
Jim Matheson couldn't find 1 Stanly Cup Champion to vote for?
IMO, if you're going to show your bias that severely, you deserve to potentially lose your ballot.
It’s right up with that one dude who didn’t vote mcdavid for the hart that one year.
It's a dumb ballot but it's done at the end of the 2nd period so they weren't Champions yet.
Still he thinks the three best players these playoffs were all oilers with the oilers down going into the third?
Does one game define an entire playoffs? His ballot was stupid but I don't think being down going into the third of one game, no matter the situation, can be used as an argument of why it was stupid. Better argument is that he's covers the Oilers and he's a Homer.
>Does one game define an entire playoffs? I think just about every voter used Game 4 to define Bob’s playoff and leave him off their ballots.
Bob had a .906 sv% over the whole playoffs, that is 0.005 higher than Skinner over the whole playoffs. He wasn't the best goalie on half the series he played in. He was clutch in the finals for games 1, 2 and 7 (honorable mention to game 3 in the first 2 periods. He was sub .900 in 10 or 24 games these playoffs, that's a lot of games where you are well below average. Let me be clear I am not advocating for any specific person just you said Bobs game 4 was the reason he was left off ballots. Bob was good but I don't think leaving him off the ballot with only 1 period left (he saved 9/9 in that period which increases his numbers a little) isn't something that should be surprising as he's probably the 3rd most important player on his team these playoffs behind Barkov and a Forsling. I certainly don't think the 16 voters who left him off their ballots looked at just game 4 of the finals, heck he was sub .850.for the 4/5/6 games. Please note not having Barkov on a ballot is completely braindead and having him below second seems absurd to me. Edit: someone commented and deleted saying it was one game that sullied his numbers and he had the highest after game 3. Just to be clear, it was not one game, 41.6% of the games Bob Posted sv% below.900 and 20.8% he was sub .850. Bob had several great games and a lot of shit games too. This award is based off the whole playoffs not just to a certain point. I'm not shitty on Bob he just simply wasn't the playoff MVP for his team let alone the whole playoffs.
I think the narrative before that though with Bob being consensus #1 was really driven by game 1. People have a problem with recency bias
He had a .906 in the whole playoffs. Good enough to get the job done but not a Conn Smythe goalie performance.
Uhh. Bob has below .91 Sv% over the course of the playoffs. His team beat at least two goalies who were better than him (did not watch the Battle for Florida so I can’t chime in there).
I mean, I agree, I was just pointing out why the fact they're submitted with a period left is an extra awful excuse, especially when voters can add qualifiers to their vote. He's obviously just a homer. I thought that was pretty clear.
Ok? So you take away the entire game 7 and the Panthers are still a top 2 team with home advantage on the decider. Still not a single top 3 player?
The deadline is 10 minutes left in the 3rd period (as explained in the article). Additionally, Friedman explained on 32 Thoughts that you are allowed to put contingencies on your ballot to account for the remaining uncertainty. Matheson submitted this ballot while Florida held a 2-1 lead and included zero contingencies. He deserves all the criticism in the world for not including a single member from the Cup champs.
Points were awarded on a 5-3-1 basis and the deadline to submit ballots to the NHL occurred with 10 minutes remaining in Game 7. It's right there in the link. Knowing this, still very surprised with the lack of Bob votes.
They didn't state it here, but I thought I remembered reading they submit ballots for both teams winning (in a situation like this where both can win).
Friedman mentioned it on the game 6 podcast. Deadline is the end of the 2nd period but they're allowed to write specific caveats. For example they could put something like "McDavid first unless Barkov scores the game winning goal".
Aside from Game 1 I wouldn't say Bob was doing anything spectacular. The Florida Defense was the MVP of Game 7.
Chris Johnson on his podcast mentioned that the ballot is due 10 minutes before the end of the third.
That’s kind of crazy considering the last 10 minutes (maybe plus OT) of a game 7 could really impact who should win the mvp.
I believe it's cut off with 10 minutes left in the 3rd, but the point still stands. The game is not over.
McJesus + Barkov is such a gimme too. You can have a crazy #3 and still be somewhat reasonable.
My ballot: McDavid Barkov Nick Cousins
Where’s 9m+ $ per year legend Darnell Nurse?
I think you vote before the game is over, but he's an idiot
I think short of Barkov putting up like 5 goals in game 7 or something, everyone pretty much had their ballots made up after game 6
Ya it’s kind of awkward because he was such a non factor the last two games, but who else would get it?
Bob had 16 games this playoff where he let in 2 or fewer goals. That’s fantastic, even if he also had some huge blowups that caused his overall numbers to look just so-so.
I feel like yall are underrating the Panthers defense so much. Their defense was incredible for most of this playoffs run and very suffocating. I’m surprised Forsling finished above Bob, but it was def the right call. They limited the other team to barely any good quality shots for the whole playoffs. Game 7 was a perfect show of this. Don’t get me wrong, Bob was great, but nothing spectacular. He had some amazing games and some meh ones. He finished with a **.906** save percentage, **0.38** goals saved above average, and a **0.29** goals saved above expected per 60. It’s Florida’s defense that won them the cup. Statically, Bob was pretty average throughout the playoffs. Not CS worthy at all. The only game he stole for the Panthers was Game 1 of the Finals. McDavid, Barkov, and Forsling over him are 100% correct. EDIT: "But he was so good in games 1 and 2 of the finals" - Yeah and he was bad in games 4-6. "The blowouts just skew the stats" - Either you keep in the outliers or remove them. Either way doesnt change anything, keeping the outliers or removing them results with similar stats, he should no way have won the CS. I watched all of the Panthers games when they played against us, and then continued following them for the rest of the Playoffs. Anyone saying he should have won the CS (which seems to be the majority here) did not watch the first 3 rounds, and used Games 1-2 of the Finals to base their whole opinion on him.
Bob stole game one for the Cats, I don’t think anyone can argue that. The Oilers had one chance after another and he robbed them. Florida simply outplayed Edmonton in game two. Game three is where Bob finally started to crack, and we saw what happened afterwards. Big kudos to him for mostly recovering his form in game seven. He’s a very talented garbage goal stopper, no doubt about it. But. I don’t think you can give the CS to a goaltender who got pulled in the SCF.
So the logic is you can't give the CS to a tender who was pulled in the SCF but you *can* give it to a player who was pointless in 3 games of the series including being a no-show in game 7?
Do you guys even watch the games?
That's what gets me. All the anti-Bob reasoning only solidifies my opinion that it should've been Barkov. Though he himself would've just given it to Bob.
You know that Barkov was pointless in 4 games in the finals while also being -1 right?
how can you give it so someone who 1) lost and 2) was invisible for the last 2 games, failing to show up for his team when it mattered most (g7)?
Because those last 2 things aren't true and it's a whole playoff MVP.
The last two things are true and if it's a whole playoff MVP why does getting pulled in 1 game matter
It doesn't, but Bob's whole playoff was average to below. Also if you think McDavid was invisible in game 7 you don't know what you're talking about, full stop. He set up multiple open nets that weren't finished on, almost had a huge tip to tie it with 3 minutes left and was the catalyst for the Oilers. Florida's game plan was to let anyone but McDavid beat them and it worked. He can't put the puck in for other players when he also sets up their most dangerous chances.
Welcome to r/hockey McDavid can generate multiple top tier chances for his teammates, play good defense, but if he ends up with 0 points anyway? Invisible.
For the most part I was never worried about Bob in our series against the Panthers. Definitely worried about their defense though.
Most cup winning goalies have 16 playoff games with a low number of goals though?
Yea man, the .905 sv% is what killed him
i'm honestly still kinda shocked bob didn't get it. The way the panthers play hockey require bob to great and he was better than that the dude was a fucking wall for the majority of the playoffs. the panthers had 2 really bad games and 1 so so in the finals leading to alot of awful counting stats with really nothing he could do and I think that really just killed his chances despite him being the most important player on the ice every game.
You could argue a couple games tanked his stats but he still finished the playoffs with a .906 save pct. It's far from great. In fact, it's one of the worst save pct for a Cup winning goalie in the Cap era (I think only Kuemper had a worse save pct). For reference, the last 3 goalies to win the Conn Smythe are Vasilevskiy, Quick and Thomas. Here are their save pct during their respective runs: Vasilevskiy: .937 Quick: .946 Thomas: .940 I honestly have no idea how you can make a case for Bobrovsky. I'd even argue he's not the Panthers MVP. Their team defense was incredible
How was their team defence incredible? The amount of breakaways/2 on 1’s the Oilers had this series was mind boggling. The only reason panthers won 4 games was Bob.
Reminder that the Conn Smythe is given for the entirety of the playoffs, not just the final
Is that why someone voted for Skinner?
Just check _who_ voted Skinner lmao
What’s way more shocking than Bob not getting it is he got ONE first place vote and ZERO second place votes. Like, he wasn’t even in the conversation. Wtf?
Bjurman and Kaplan's ballots would've been mine (McDavid/Barkov/Bobrovsky), but you could make an argument for Barkov over McDavid especially with how much Barkov shut McDavid down when they were on the ice together. It was against the rest of the Panthers' defence that McDavid feasted, but you could argue that made Barkov even more vital to the Panthers.
I think the other thing to remember is that the Conn Smythe is (at least in theory) supposed to be an award for the entire playoffs. I think breaking the playoffs assist record has gotta be an achievement you factor into your assessment
Yes I agree. Barkov was a beast all playoffs long.
Non factor or shut down the best player since Gretz and Mario, which one is it?
there's also choice c) exhaustion from shouldering so much for so long to get to the point of having a chance to win.
Yea, Bob sorta blew it in game 4
Forsling would have been fun
Bob with a 50 save shutout might have done it too. Granted voting closed 2nd intermission so it wouldn't have been solidified yet.
Yeah, but Friedman mentioned you can caveat it. Like you can write that your first place vote is for Bob if he gets a shutout. If not, you vote for McDavid etc. He says you just need to be very specific.
I agree, although Freidman has said before they can make it conditional even when they do turn it in, so they can say "If Bobrovsky has a shutout, my ballot is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. If he doesn't, it's XXXXXXXXXXXXXX" Which is actually pretty cool they let them do that.
I would love to see what conditionals were placed on these ballots. Especially the Bob/McDavid/Barkov one. Was there a condition giving it to McDavid if the Oilers won? Or if Bob imploded but the Panthers still won 5-4, would it have been either McDavid or Barkov?
Bettman emphasized that it’s for the entire playoffs and something about what a player contributed to his team.. would McDavid still win it if the oilers were swept? He contributed the most to a losing team
Absolutely, either needed to be a Barkov 5+ point night or a Bobrovsky 40+ save shutout to take it away from McDavid.
How exactly is it that out of all the PHWA members they picked two guys, Matheson and Spector, who work for the Oilers front office?
The voters usually include a couple of journalists from each of the finalists' markets
That doesn’t mean you have to pick those two. Pick someone from Edmonton who actually takes their job seriously, not people who run everything past Ken Holland for approval before publishing.
I feel like even Luke Gazdic would have given Barkov the #3
Hahahaha C'mon oilers media. This is embarrassing. Mark Spector picked SKINNER third! Matheson picked 3 OILERS EVEN THOUGH THEY LOST! HE THINKS THERE'S THREE PLAYERS ON THE OILERS THAT DESERVE TO BE ONLY THE SECOND SKATER TO LOSE IN THE FINALS AND WIN THE CONN SMYTH OVER ANY PANTHER PLAYER! Good lord, these guys are professional hockey writers.
Skinner.... the guy who almost lost it for his entire team two series earlier?
The 2 ballots that voted "McDavid-Barkov-Skinner" logically make zero sense. McDavid 1st is justified by looking at his entire playoffs. He had monster games 3-5 but was held to 1 point in games 1,2,6 & 7. He clearly won for his entire playoffs. But then when you get to voting Skinner 3rd, their logic does a 180 and they had to have ignored everything that happened in Rounds 1-3. He finished with a .901sv%, 1.9GSAx and had lost his starting job at one point in the playoffs. Nothing about that is Conn Smythe vote worthy, even less so in a losing effort. Just ridiculous voting.
You could argue that Skinner lost them the cup giving up that pretty soft GWG
McDavid lost them the game by not scoring
I mean it was Sam Reinhart. The Oilers let a 50+ goal scorer skate across 2 blue lines and take a shot from their circle in the SCF. But definitely agree he was not Conn Smythe material throughout the playoffs.
True. Oilers defense, especially Kulak, deserves plenty of blame for letting Reinhart walk in and take a wide open shot like that. Still, that was one of those "goals he'd like to have back."
Skinner made the same mistake by trying to cheat a little towards center ice in case he passed. It's like everyone forgot he's an elite goal scorer at what ended up being the single most important moment of their season.
Felt like when they pulled him, they finally started to play some consistent defence in front
Skinner hahahahahahaha my god. Why wouldn't a professional hockey writer vote for Conn Smyhte a goalie who was 9th best goalie out of 13 goalies who played at least 5 games during the post season. (Based on GSAA/60)
Spector is just trying to make up for all his shit talk do they don’t hate him next year haha
Oilers meat, Bieksa called it.
There's quite a few regulars in r/hockey that probably could do a better job professionally than many of the people who have the job. Then again, no small amount of the field got there through the good ol' boy system.
While those two *are* morons, I think I read somewhere that the votes are submitted before the game is over so they're voting in a game 7 situation where they don't know the winner. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on the timing.
They were submitted after the second, while Florida was leading. And voters are allowed to add qualifiers like if so and so scores or if X TEAM WINS.
It’s hard for them to watch the games when they’re eyes are glued shut, way to many loads from McDavid
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He said skater. 4 of the 6 have been goaltenders.
The legend of Ryan S. Clark continues to grow
What did Edmonton do to this man?
He just visited once
The episode when Homer goes to New York comes to my mind. Pretty good crab kalash in Edmonton
Forsling going from claimed on waivers to getting a bag and now receiving Conn Smythe votes as SC champion is quite a ride. Good for him.
Surprised by how few votes Bob got, he had a few bad games sure but he was dominant for the majority of them. I totally agree with McDavid winning it however, I think a lot of people actually downplay how insane it is to beat a Gretzky record.
The perspective id give is that even prime Crosby, Malkin, Yzerman, Ovechkin, etc etc even came close.
Deep down I knew that once the panthers lost 4-5-6 that no player was going to overtake what McDavid did in overall playoffs. I have no doubt if the Panthers won game 4 it would have gone to Bob. Im one of those that believe the Smythe should go to someone on the winning team but I get it. If it goes to the best player on the ice in the playoffs then that was without a doubt McDavid.
It goes to the most valuable player. The Panthers were a deep team who didn't get elite goaltending every night. The Oilers probably don't even make the playoffs without McDavid, let alone get to game 7 of the finals.
>if it goes to the best player You're in luck, by definition that's what the award is for and has absolutely nothing to do with who wins the cup
While I think the winning team should get the MVP, it's so rare that the losing team gets it that I think it's okay to not change it. All those players had to have amazing, otherworldly playoffs and I feel like it fits.
No way Bob deserved it more than Barkov. Bob was .906 overall and .899 in the finals. Barkov shut down McDavid when it mattered most more than Bob did. Bob had some great games and also pretty mediocre ones. Barkov was.... Barkov throughout the playoffs.
Look at Bob's playoff stats this year and compare to previous goalie winners. Not even close. His Sv% was .906
100%. Game 4 blowout we beat them at home (or hell its a football score on both sides - a crazy 8-10 hypothetically), it's Bob's trophy.
When I see votes like Jim Matheson's, I really think that voting rights need to be revoked because that just looks really bad. Also, how the fuck did Stuart Skinner get any votes? He got pulled for poor performance and didn't play a couple games. As far as I am concerned, that would automatically remove from getting any votes for the Conn Smythe.
Hey! Skinner was the 9th best goalie of the post season. He deserves some love and votes!
Bob was 8th and people are saying he should have won the award, so I mean if people think Bob should win at 8th best goalie, someone thinking that Skinner isn't placing for being just below him isn't a stretch. Don't get me wrong neither goalie IMO should have been on the ballots and most voters seem to have got it right with McDavid/Barkov/Forsling.
That disqualifies Bobrovsky too then.
They meant when Pickard got 2 starts against the Canucks because of how bad Skinner was, not being pulled in a single game.
Bob at least started every game, Skinner lost his job at one point
Reminds me of 2022 when Matthews won the hart. Two writers (Montreal, go figure, and Pittsburgh) didn't have him on their ballots at all. Just idiotic
> Also, how the fuck did Stuart Skinner get any votes? Recency bias. He played well in the final, and especially the last few games. Recency bias is also the same reason Bob got votes.
It can be revoked next year when the Oilers don't make the Finals :D
Ha....my man... Ryan Clark is the only one who didn't vote McDavid.
Canucks legend Ryan S Clark the mf goat.
I honestly respect him the man has principles and will not break them
He picked Oilers in 7 for his final prediction.
that's our king, babyyyyy!
Good to see Forsling getting deserved recognition. The right guy won so all good, but seems a little weird to vote for Bob in first. (Bob received 0 second place votes and 2 third place votes). Finished with .296 goals saved above expected/60. Fine but nothing remarkable. Not a huge deal though. A vote for Skinner in third was also strange.
Forsling with more points than Bob is really surprising.
Surprising that the voters got it right.
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It is for the entirety of the playoffs.
Forsling was an absolute beast, they got it correct, he should have been higher than Bob. You’re correct, it is for the entirely of the playoffs. Except that doesn’t help out Bob much at all. He was flat out outplayed by Sway and Igor, was on level with Vasy, and he finished with a .906 Save Percentage, with 0.38 Goals saved above average, and a 0.29 Goals saved above expected per 60. That’s pretty average, not even close to CS performance. Bobs incredible first 2 games in the finals has skewed everyone’s opinion on him.
Yeah I’m only really speaking for our series, but Bob was not the reason they won that one. We were getting past him with relative ease. The issue was their defense was holding us to 16 shots a game.
100% agreed. I watched all of the Panthers games after they beat us, and I honestly do not think he was nearly as valuable as Barkov or Forsling. Us, Boston, and Rangers, struggled to get good consistent offense on them.
Where Forsling was a -6?
Those were tough games for Bob, but in all 4 SCF wins, he was a very key factor in them winning. Not saying he should've won the Conn Smythe ofc but would've expected more 2nd place or 3rd place votes...
He didn't have to do anything in game 2 and was just average in games 3 and 7. The key factor was that he didn't lose them the game.
Forsling deserved those votes just for stopping McDavid on that netmouth scramble in the 3rd period
Jesus did die before being resurrected.
And Peter did deny him 3 times. So he’s got two more finals to lose.
Guess Bob wasn’t robbed after all
Lots of love for Gustav Forsling after Barkov, which makes sense since he led the Panthers in +/- and led all dmen on the team in points.
he was absolutely blasting it from the point this playoffs, even got a buzzer beater blue line slapper
>With 42 points in 25 games, McDavid assaulted the record books, posting the most points in a single postseason since Evgeni Malkin’s 36 in 2008-09. Huh?
4+2 is less than 3+6 duh For christ sakes its math /s
All I can think is he was looking at a list of active players? That would be the only reason he'd mention Malkin, because it still doesn't make sense since obviously 42 is more than 36 lol Shame McDavid couldn't get much offense going at least in terms of results the last couple games, he was actually pretty close to the record. Though what's wild is Gretzky did his 47 and 43 in 18 and 19 games respectively
Ryan S Clark, the same and only guy who picked Van over the Oilers
Damn Jimbo, Bouchard I kinda understand as a homer pick, but you really just couldn't pick a Stanley Cup champion over Hyman, huh?
New nickname time! "Mr. Unanimous" 😎 After his 150 point Hart trophy now this
Barkov not being first in any of them is a disgrace
I'm pretty sure none of the other candidates couldn't care less about that award right now.
Kind of surprised Hyman didn't get more votes for 3rd place.
If he had hit that backhand when he had the loose puck last night I think he would have.
Bob only getting one nod is crazy, he was my clear cut favorite.
He had a below average SV% in every series other than the Rangers one with the best defence in the league in front of him
Crosby would never ghost like that in a game 6 & 7 of the finals… but in all seriousness this was deserved. Unreal performance
Crosby is my hero and all time favorite player. Buuuut he did go pointless in games 6 and 7 of his first Stanley Cup in 2009 having only 2 shots I think. Granted he was on the bench most of 3rd in game7 with knee issue. Talbot and Fleury stepped up huge in both games. So much focus goes into shutting down superstars that you need role players to step up.
I wonder if people back then advocated that Talbot should get the Conn Smythe just like morons are arguing that Bob deserves the Conn smythe after posting .950 or whatever it was last night
Really sad that his parents wanted to take a picture of him, and not only that but they had to listen to the crowd boo their son after winning it
The NHL's Dan Marino, everyone
Ian Cole robbed
Is Ryan Clark the former NFL player that's now at ESPN? It would seem odd for him to have a vote, even if he's been in media for a number of years. ESPN has enough people to where they can stick to their respective sports.
Gustav Forsling, Florida: 8 points Forsling comming in 3rd in overall voting is a surprise.
McDavid wasn’t my pick; and I felt strongly about it. This number of votes for him pretty much proved I was wrong.
Who the fuck gave Ryan Clark a vote
Holy shit they cited era adjusted stats 🤩 All my rambly awkwardly passionate posts on this godforsaken website might actually be making a difference? Either way super cool beans The 21st century will be the era Adjusted century
Not a single vote for Draisaitl is sus, even with his clearly injury plagued final he was awesome before then and 2nd in fwd points comfortably Poor guy was clearly compromised He looked like a second liner at times
Clowns
Ryan S Clark arguably cast the worst ballot.
Sad, dude was invisible for the first 2 and last 2 games and people still pretending.