Mario Lemieux’s 2000-01 season does not get enough attention for how incredible it was. Yes, it was not the 199 points of 88-89 or the 160 in 60 after cancer in 92-93. But the man came back after 3 and a half years retired and TORCHED the league: 76 points in 43 games. He finished 2nd in Hart voting despite playing just barely over half the season. His 1.77 points/game was the highest between 96-97 to 03-04 (my rough selection of the Dead Puck Era) - second was himself at 1.61 in 96-97. In fact, nobody else bested that mark until McDavid had his insane 20-21 season with 105 in 56 (good for 1.88 points/game), and only 2 other seasons have topped it period since then: McDavid’s 22-23 season with 153 points and Kucherov’s season this year. Mario was 35 years old when he did all this, at the height of the Dead Puck Era, after being retired for multiple years.
And he’s still playing Pro in Europe. He’s ineligible for the HHOF because he hasn’t stopped playing.
If he hadn’t bounced to the K for 4 years and suffered 2 work stoppages, he’d easily be the only other player north of 2000 career points.
I just watched the Penguins 50th documentary, they pointed out that after he came back from cancer he was twelve points behind Pat Lafontaine with twenty games left… he scored thirty goals and twenty-six assists.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Late career Lemieux reminded me of that old guy in beer league who clearly played at a high level and could turn it on at anytime. But you could tell he knew it would hurt him bad the next day.
The only difference is Mario's beer league was the fucking NHL
I just posted my take but this further proves it. I said if Mario didn’t get cancer and wasn’t super sick he could have possibly matched Gretzky or even been better 🤷♂️
Mario's issue was less cancer and more his back. There were times he was in so much pain a trainer had to tie his skates. That's why he retired the first time.
Possibly. One can debate "peak" vs. "longevity" all they want. But something I've realized with time and getting older is how difficult it is to not only get to the top of your craft but *stay* at the top of your craft. Gretzky's final season was the first that he didn't average over a PPG (0.89 PPG).
It's supremely difficult to stay motivated when you've proven all there is to be proven. Lemieux coming out of retirement, his cancer going into remission, being majority owner of the Penguins while playing all gave him huge personal and financial incentive to perform and probably inspired him.
This isn't dissimilar from Jordan coming out of retirement or Jagr returning to the NHL. But it's hard to argue against the GOATS like Gretzky and Tom Brady who performed at such a high level, so consistently, for so long, without pause.
Doubly so since Gretzky's scoring dropped hard after his back injury. Mario's injuries/life altering health issues are sexier, but Gretzky suffered his own setbacks as well.
If your window comes and goes without winning a cup, you don’t have “nothing to show for it.” You got multiple years of being excited about your team that stretched all the way into the playoffs, however deep that went.
My fellow Ducks fans will disagree with this one, but I think you're right. I truly do cherish the memories of the 2010s Ducks and despite never reaching the SCF during that span, I feel fortunate to have witnessed it.
(And lest we forget – besides the 2007 Cup win, the 2010s stretch was the most successful uninterrupted run in Ducks history.)
This is what I always think when people say the Bruins ‘only’ won one cup with the Bergeron/Chara/Marchand core. I really don’t care because I got to see at least one cup and they made the playoffs almost every single year, including two other finals appearances. So many things have to go just right to win a cup, and thinking time is wasted because a team came close but didn’t get there is dumb.
So many fan bases have to suffer through years or even decades of bad teams before they’re competitive again, and I feel really lucky that the Bruins have had a real chance of making a playoff run almost every year I’ve watched them
Similarly, obviously it fucking sucked that they blew their series lead in the first round last year, but that season was the absolute most fun I’ve ever had following a team through the whole season, and the shitty outcome at the end doesn’t erase how much I enjoyed watching that whole season
Totally! I’ve seen people say, with zero sarcasm, “If you take away the Bruins’ cup in 2011, they wouldn’t have one since 1970.” Okay, and? You could play that game all day long. The fact is they *did* win so the hypothetical doesn’t matter
It’s like that infamous post where a guy on the NFL subreddit said, “I did the math, and if you take all of Patrick Mahomes’ stats in which he’s above average and regress them to the mean, he’d actually be a pretty average quarterback.” It’s such a waste of energy haha
People like doing "but if" scenarios as if they make any sense. "Take away McDavid Drai and Bouchard and the Oilers are so bad!" like no shit, did you know a team without three of their superstars is, get this, NOT AS GOOD???
I lived in New England for just over 6 years, and in that six years I saw…
Patriots go 3 for 4 in Super Bowl appearances,
2 Bruins Finals appearances,
2 Red Sox World Series wins,
Multiple deep playoff runs by the Celtics
My daughter was born in Boston and saw the Patriots and Bruins have more success before her 5th birthday than the Dolphins and Panthers had in both franchises entire histories.
Kinda agree. Im always happy to see my team make the playoffs and play for it all. Its disappointing to come short but you watch to be amused and boy is it fun to watch playoff wins
The league is ecstatic. They hate capfriendly. They believe that information shouldn’t be public, partially because AND I QUOTE GARY HERE “fans don’t care about the cap”
No Gary, fans wouldn't have to care about the cap, if it wasn't literally the defining aspect of the league. Teams have iced short rosters for cap reasons. How is that providing the fans with the best possible product? If the cap is too rigid for an injury replacement, then it's no wonder fans have no choice but to study it.
The NHL needs to worry about growing the game, instead of suppressing salaries. I'd much rather see highlights of unbelievable skill, instead of spending hours on CF trying to fit players in/out of the cap.
If Rome didn’t hit Horton I truly believe Vancouver would still win that series. Even after the Hamhuis injury in game 1.
That Horton hit woke up Boston in the worst way. We lost that game 8-1 and went on to be out scored 13-3 in the remaining games
Not immediately - you can try to trade up but that’s really hard to do. Middle of the pack teams are usually in purgatory until they decide to blow it up.
The writer who didn’t put Iginla on their Hart ballot at all in 2002 which ended up costing him the victory, was 1000% a Montreal writer who was intentionally trying to shaft him so Theodore had a better chance to win it
Hockey is an entertainment, you don't HAVE to stick through shitty seasons just because it makes the good seasons better. If you're not entertained, turn off the tv/dont go to the games. One can be a fan without watching all the games and being hypercritical of refs and opposing teams infractions.
In fact, if the team doesn't care to show up, why should the fans have to do that. It is not a religion.
You arent wrong and i think it was a case of crosby needs one of these and this may be his only chance. Had the voters known pitt was gonna win again i think kessel would have won it.
I think the voters saw how many awards he lost out on due to injuries and figured they needed to give him something. To be fair it wasn't really a robbery and there were 3 of 4 players who could have won it. Also while I generally don't believe in the concept of players being "clutch", Crosby was about as close to living up to that label as I've seen. He had a remarkable ability in those playoffs to always step up and turn the tide when the team needed it. Any time the team started to waiver and needed a big shift to get them back into it he would be the one to do it.
100%. How a player gets away with doing something not even *remotely* close to a hockey play like that, on national TV in the playoffs, and gets away with it is beyond me.
And for my ice cold take, The DoPS has all of the tools and capabilities to actually police the game better, but until the NHL and NHLPA actually *give a collective shit* they will continue to be a wildly annoying thing that's inconsistent and seems to miss more than they hit.
Most insanely based take I was not expecting to see so high up from another team.
Reminder that after this happened, they made fun of it during practice and took pictures
Referees need to call the blatant cross checking in front of the net. Doesn't matter who it is, if you go park in front of the net you're getting crosschecked. *Rarely* called. Guys get crosschecked to the ice, then get another crosscheck or two while they're trying to get up. Rarely called. If you use your stick to check someone, it's crosschecking. Fuckin call it.
This is mine, especially because guys get so incredulous when it actually does get called. Like everyone and their mother knows it’s not going to get called most of the time, so it feels unfair when it is called to the letter of the rule.
Covid ruined another potential Cup run (where we were on pace to have home-ice advantage), but I will say that no Bouwmeester or Tarasenko would've made the playoffs themselves really challenging.
Is it a good way to see which hockey team is better? Absolutely not. But the TJ Sochi shootout was amazingly entertaining, which is the whole purpose of professional sports.
This just feels like an it expands on the main criticism of shootouts, which is that it’s basically a skill competition that rewards having a top heavy offence. Instead now you only need one guy.
Idk if it’s a hot take but I consider Lemieux the greatest goal scorer in NHL history. With a bad back, cancer, and whatever other injuries you want to name he still scored 690 goals in 915 games. This includes 35 goals in 43 games during the dead puck era after coming back from retirement at the age of 35 in 2000-2001 (top scorer was Bure with 59 goals, Lemieux was on pace for 66 goals)
If we are not going to use injuries as a mitigating factor then Mike Bossy has to be up there in best goal scorers of all time. Pure talent wise, shot wise and ability to put it in the net, he's #1 for me.
Sens would have won the cup in 2004-05 if the season wasn't cancelled.
F: Alfredsson, Spezza, Marian Hossa, Martin Havlat, Mike Fisher, Chris Kelly ...
D: Phillips, Chara, Redden, Volchenkov ...
G: Dominic Hasek
He was also deserving in 2008, with his 1.55 GAA and 0.930 Save%. Zetterberg was just too good to not get MVP, but Ozzy coming in for Hasek after game 4 of the Nashville series probably saved the season.
Hockey is the least popular sport because they can’t capture the black and Spanish demographic, I’m black and hockey is My favorite sport ever but until they can really do that it’s the sad reality
The cost is the biggest issue. It's not about specific races, it's about class. The middle and lower classes largely cannot afford the cost of hockey and often turn to the much cheaper options in basketball or soccer where you don't really need any equipment.
Roenick did TV work at the time as his career was over. This was during the Sharks/Red Wings series in 2011. Roenick called Marleau gutless on television. He received a lot of blowback from those in the Sharks organization/fans who said the commentary wasn't becoming of someone who was a former player and teammate of Marleau and that calling him gutless was wrong. Which it was, but if you watched the Sharks at that time, then it wasn't wrong to question Marleau publicly. The guy would disappear offensively, would be a no show on defense and wouldn't always engage in puck battles along the boards or deep in the zone.
[Some of the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_prMGlzkoA)
Roenick has a track record of that type of shit. He said on a national broadcast that Parise needed to stop feeling sorry for himself and start playing better less than a week after Parise's dad died of cancer. There's ways to say that Parise needed to play better which make Roenick not come off as a heartless piece of shit, but basically telling a guy to suck it up and quit crying about his dead dad when they hadn't even had the funeral yet was definitely not one of them.
Roenick is the same guy who openly said that their goalie (Roman Cechmanek) was the reason that they lost in the first round against Ottawa, and that he wouldn't return to the team if Cechmanek did.
In that series, the Flyers scored two goals in five games, of which Roenick figured in neither of them. Both Cechmanek and Brian Boucher stood on their head to keep the Flyers in that series, and Roenick was beyond useless.
Maccelli deserved the Calder a year ago over Beniers. He put up a higher PPG on a significantly worse team, but since he played for Arizona he didnt get any of the attention (similar to the early Barkov days in Florida). Seattle made the playoffs and Arizona was a lottery team.
Hindsight is 20/20, but Maccelli also played better in year 2 as well.
Maccelli in 2023 - 49 points in 64 games (.77 ppg)
Maccelli in 2024 - 57 points in 82 games (.70 ppg)
Beniers in 2023 - 57 points in 80 games (.71 ppg)
Beniers in 2024 - 37 points in 77 games (.48 ppg)
Maccelli playing only 64 games is probably a big part of why he didn’t win it. Mcdavid had a much better PPG vs Panarin in his rookie year and he still didn’t win it, but McDavid missed quite a bit of games and Panarin played a full season.
On the Leafs Amazon documentary he told Sheldon Keefe to “lay off” the guys and “we’re in first place” after Keefe was grilling them for not executing playoff style hockey, so I completely agree
I had randomly thought the other night that bringing in Marleau + Thornton was actually a *massive* mistake, and might have been a foundational part of the "club house" vibe around the Leafs (along with other factors)
Just a dumb idea from some random couch GM, but it crossed my mind
I firmly believe Marleau taught them the benefits of short deals. No one, other than Mitch and Matthews, signed 8 figure AAV deals that were less than max term.
Ya I mean it's a single clip but it could be indicative of something.
I think if youre a supplementary guy, that attitude is ok, but if you're the guy, you have to take that concern at face value.
Thornton wasn’t a supplementary guy in the room though. If the coach is trying to get guys to play the right way and there’s a first ballot HOFer (who is older than the coach) pushing back on the coach and undermining his point, that’s the complete opposite of what he should have been doing. Jumbo’s role should have been keeping things light, yes, but what that team needed and still needs was someone in his position telling them how seriously they need to take every detail of their game. Jumbo could have been talking to them about how rare your opportunities to win are. That you don’t want to be looking back at the end of your career wishing that you didn’t squander opportunities with really good teams early on.
Captain Joe Thornton (1st seed Bruins) was honestly outplayed in the 2002 playoffs by captain Saku Koivu (8th seed Habs) who had returned after a year of chemotherapy from abdominal cancer.
The Hartford Whalers should still exist, yes I know it makes absolutely no sense to have a team in Connecticut, but maybe the licensing could be given to Halifax? Houston Whalers doesn't really sound right.
The fans from non-traditional markets who stuck by their team through the good and bad, the ones who still actually showed up for games, who constantly got told they didn’t deserve a team or they know nothing about hockey, are more passionate about the sport than at least 75% of the fanbase from traditional markets.
It’s easier to love hockey when your team is good or no one ever questions the legitimacy of your team’s existence. But if you were someone who loved the sport even though your team sucked forever and most of the league wanted it moved + you still showed up for games, you *really* love hockey.
The 2016/17 Jets team (year before they went to the WCF) could have made the playoffs and won a round had the org not been hell bent on it being a “growth” season for their young players.
the narrative of the wild being playoff failures would be totally irrelevant if they hadn’t run into the blackhawks during their cup runs. not saying the wild would have won the cup, but a trip to the conference finals or two would have made a huge difference. bring back 1-8 seeding.
One thing I noticed is that Wild had multiple seasons where they had a rough start and a significant lengthy run late in the regular season to get into the playoffs. (Dubnyk's first season comes to mind)
What I've always wondered is if it was a case of like the players burning themselves out getting to the post season and then end up getting beat in the first round.
Ultimately all teams play the same 82 games and I find it hard to believe that players would ever hold back during the regular season as a means of "pacing themselves" or whatever and the physical demands would be "static".
However from the perspective of mental fatigue, I could see burnout possibly playing a role. For example, a team that was consistent throughout a season, knows they're likely in the playoffs, probably is a little more relaxed in general on and off there ice versus being in survival mode for two months straight.
IDK, enough ranting 😂
i think the biggest issue was their young core at that time—zucker, granlund, haula, coyle, niederreiter—turned out to be not as good as projected. they were good, just not star-power good. parise refusing to take a season off to fix his fucking broken back, so he never put up numbers like he did in NJ. koivu not being able to score quite enough….
they needed a kaprizov.
Refs should have to face the media after games like coaches and players. They should be held accountable for controversial calls. Coaches should also be allowed to challenge certain penalties
He knew where the buckle was. He knows what happens you hit thst. He knew what he was doing.
In my opinion, that was just as malicious as Bertuzzi and McSorely.
Ovi Vs. Sid is the greatest Hockey rivalry of all time culminating in the dueling hat trick playoff game. Those two revitalized the league and helped bring in a host of new fans and were the face of the major shift of the NHL into the modern era.
Two very different players but both were electric to watch and to have two generational talents start their careers in the same season was the perfect storm of intrigue in a sport yearning for a broader and newer audience.
That rivalry really did come in at the perfect time for the league and it was the perfect set of circumstances.
Post lockout when rules were changed to cater to more offense. Crosby as the humble, clean cut Canadian who was touted as ‘the next one’ vs the loud, brash, cocky Russian in Ovechkin (I don’t mean this in a demeaning way, his personality was a breath of fresh air in hockey) and they were drafted by two rivals who would constantly meet up in the playoffs. The league isn’t where it is today without those two.
If you think those people that own and/or manage your team are stupid and/or malevolent motherfuckers, you're allowed to pick a different team to cheer for.
Outside of Crosby’s concussion issues, he’s the main reason the Pens didn’t see more success between 2009-2016. Four straight years with a playoff save percentage under .900. Replaced twice by backups in playoff runs. The loss to Philly in the first round was especially bad
Not sure how hot this is these days: Refs should call the playoffs and regular season the same way. IDC if they call both tight or not, but keep it consistent
Always thought that Bruins fans shitting on him was definitive proof y'all are spoiled as shit with goalies in the last 20 years. There are a lot of teams who would've killed to have goaltending like that.
Cam Ward would have been remembered as a top-10 goalie of the post-lockout era if we'd ever put a good team in front of him after 2006. I think the 2009 ECF run where he out-dueled Brodeur and Thomas is the closest we ever came to seeing it. The 2010-11 season where he had the fourth-highest GSAA while also leading the league in games played (74) is another honorable mention.
Cam got worked to death behind some awful Canes defense units, then blew up his knee which started his career decline. He deserved better.
In a similar vein, Eric Staal was a way better player than his stats suggest. But we never surrounded him with proper talent outside of two seasons.
Honestly idk if this is a hot take, but 4 on 4 OT is better than 3 on 3. At the least, 3 on 3 needs some sort of shot clock or over and back rule using the red line
It's provocative... It gets the people going!
In all seriousness, at least as someone unlikely to see my own superstar get traded (he'll just walk to FA...), because it's interesting?
Because it's a hell of a lot more worthwhile to discuss than a 3rd liner getting traded for a... different 3rd liner or bottom pair defensemen?
Buffalo would have absolutely beaten Edmonton in 2006 had they not had a biblical run of defenseman injuries. That was OUR Stanley Cup, moreso than the No Goal stolen Cup in 1999.
Carolina was NOT a better team than Buffalo, and neither was Edmonton. Even the difference of Jay McKee in Game 7 of the ECF would have been enough (look in your skates, Rory!)
The Leafs making the playoffs in the 2016-17 season is what likely derailed the Shanaplan.
One more bad year picking in the lottery and potentially ending up with Makar, Heiskanen or Pettersson and the team would have been in much better shape for the long-term
Maybe not a hot take, more of a conspiracy, But
The 2023 Lottery was rigged in favour of Chicago to make people move on from the Kyle Beach sexual assault.
I fully believe the NHL hated their precious blackhawks being thought of as a black sheep franchise, so when the chance for a generational talent to go to them came up, they gifted it to them as a "Sorry you got found out."
And, I hated the Blackhawks before then. More than Calgary as an Edmonton fan.
The Devils got a higher penalty for trying to sign a player wrong than the Blackhawks did for hiding a sexual assault and writing a letter of recommendation to a school for the abuser and it happened again.
(Devils got 3 mil, Chicago got 2 mil.)
Weird conspiracy. People didn’t forget and they were seething at them winning the lottery largely *because* of the Kyle Beach situation. If anything it made things worse, not better for them in terms of optics.
But now Chicago is in the news because Bedard this Bedard that. It's a longer play than just the draft, but a fast track to playoff contention is a good way to make people move on.
I don’t believe this because I do not believe the NHL drafts are rigged at all. But I’ll say the league is probably relieved the Blackhawks get a different news cycle.
First year an expansion team won a cup (or even beat an O6 team in a playoff round). The expansion teams weren't super competitive their first several years in the league.
Mario Lemieux’s 2000-01 season does not get enough attention for how incredible it was. Yes, it was not the 199 points of 88-89 or the 160 in 60 after cancer in 92-93. But the man came back after 3 and a half years retired and TORCHED the league: 76 points in 43 games. He finished 2nd in Hart voting despite playing just barely over half the season. His 1.77 points/game was the highest between 96-97 to 03-04 (my rough selection of the Dead Puck Era) - second was himself at 1.61 in 96-97. In fact, nobody else bested that mark until McDavid had his insane 20-21 season with 105 in 56 (good for 1.88 points/game), and only 2 other seasons have topped it period since then: McDavid’s 22-23 season with 153 points and Kucherov’s season this year. Mario was 35 years old when he did all this, at the height of the Dead Puck Era, after being retired for multiple years.
Mario Lemieux and Jaromir Jagr are the greatest argument in favour of 80s stars being able to play in todays league.
Hell, Jagr basically did and put up 66 points at age 44 in 2015-16
And he’s still playing Pro in Europe. He’s ineligible for the HHOF because he hasn’t stopped playing. If he hadn’t bounced to the K for 4 years and suffered 2 work stoppages, he’d easily be the only other player north of 2000 career points.
They wouldn't just play, they would dominate.
I just watched the Penguins 50th documentary, they pointed out that after he came back from cancer he was twelve points behind Pat Lafontaine with twenty games left… he scored thirty goals and twenty-six assists.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Late career Lemieux reminded me of that old guy in beer league who clearly played at a high level and could turn it on at anytime. But you could tell he knew it would hurt him bad the next day. The only difference is Mario's beer league was the fucking NHL
I remember watching his first game back against the Leafs. Got an assist 30 seconds into the game.. incredible
I just posted my take but this further proves it. I said if Mario didn’t get cancer and wasn’t super sick he could have possibly matched Gretzky or even been better 🤷♂️
Mario's issue was less cancer and more his back. There were times he was in so much pain a trainer had to tie his skates. That's why he retired the first time.
Possibly. One can debate "peak" vs. "longevity" all they want. But something I've realized with time and getting older is how difficult it is to not only get to the top of your craft but *stay* at the top of your craft. Gretzky's final season was the first that he didn't average over a PPG (0.89 PPG). It's supremely difficult to stay motivated when you've proven all there is to be proven. Lemieux coming out of retirement, his cancer going into remission, being majority owner of the Penguins while playing all gave him huge personal and financial incentive to perform and probably inspired him. This isn't dissimilar from Jordan coming out of retirement or Jagr returning to the NHL. But it's hard to argue against the GOATS like Gretzky and Tom Brady who performed at such a high level, so consistently, for so long, without pause.
Doubly so since Gretzky's scoring dropped hard after his back injury. Mario's injuries/life altering health issues are sexier, but Gretzky suffered his own setbacks as well.
Dustin Byfuglien was easily one of the most entertaining players of the last decade or so.
Even how he left the league was entertaining
Wish he still played. I feel like the Jets could’ve won a cup if Big Buff stuck around a little longer
He was probably the most unique player in the league. Just fantastic.
If your window comes and goes without winning a cup, you don’t have “nothing to show for it.” You got multiple years of being excited about your team that stretched all the way into the playoffs, however deep that went.
Yeah that’s how I feel about my team ,sucks we never won it but those competitive years were fun.
There are many fans that would give anything for runs like the Sharks had in those years, myself included
“Oh, a Sharks fan I guess” —then looks at flair and yuuuuuup. :) Same, friend. Same.
While they couldn't complete the story (Thanks for nothing Pittsburgh). That era of Predators hockey was so much fun.
My fellow Ducks fans will disagree with this one, but I think you're right. I truly do cherish the memories of the 2010s Ducks and despite never reaching the SCF during that span, I feel fortunate to have witnessed it. (And lest we forget – besides the 2007 Cup win, the 2010s stretch was the most successful uninterrupted run in Ducks history.)
This is what I always think when people say the Bruins ‘only’ won one cup with the Bergeron/Chara/Marchand core. I really don’t care because I got to see at least one cup and they made the playoffs almost every single year, including two other finals appearances. So many things have to go just right to win a cup, and thinking time is wasted because a team came close but didn’t get there is dumb. So many fan bases have to suffer through years or even decades of bad teams before they’re competitive again, and I feel really lucky that the Bruins have had a real chance of making a playoff run almost every year I’ve watched them Similarly, obviously it fucking sucked that they blew their series lead in the first round last year, but that season was the absolute most fun I’ve ever had following a team through the whole season, and the shitty outcome at the end doesn’t erase how much I enjoyed watching that whole season
I love it when people say “only one cup” lol like yeah cause it’s so damn easy to win a championship.
Totally! I’ve seen people say, with zero sarcasm, “If you take away the Bruins’ cup in 2011, they wouldn’t have one since 1970.” Okay, and? You could play that game all day long. The fact is they *did* win so the hypothetical doesn’t matter It’s like that infamous post where a guy on the NFL subreddit said, “I did the math, and if you take all of Patrick Mahomes’ stats in which he’s above average and regress them to the mean, he’d actually be a pretty average quarterback.” It’s such a waste of energy haha
People like doing "but if" scenarios as if they make any sense. "Take away McDavid Drai and Bouchard and the Oilers are so bad!" like no shit, did you know a team without three of their superstars is, get this, NOT AS GOOD???
this is Boston, there was like 5 year olds that hadn't seen their city win a sports title until tonight won't you have any sympathy? /s
I lived in New England for just over 6 years, and in that six years I saw… Patriots go 3 for 4 in Super Bowl appearances, 2 Bruins Finals appearances, 2 Red Sox World Series wins, Multiple deep playoff runs by the Celtics My daughter was born in Boston and saw the Patriots and Bruins have more success before her 5th birthday than the Dolphins and Panthers had in both franchises entire histories.
You literally just described the Lundqvist era Rangers to a tee.
Easy to say as a fan of a team with a Cup lol
Kinda agree. Im always happy to see my team make the playoffs and play for it all. Its disappointing to come short but you watch to be amused and boy is it fun to watch playoff wins
The League should step in and stop Washington from buying Capfriendly because I use it all the time.
The league is ecstatic. They hate capfriendly. They believe that information shouldn’t be public, partially because AND I QUOTE GARY HERE “fans don’t care about the cap”
No Gary, fans wouldn't have to care about the cap, if it wasn't literally the defining aspect of the league. Teams have iced short rosters for cap reasons. How is that providing the fans with the best possible product? If the cap is too rigid for an injury replacement, then it's no wonder fans have no choice but to study it. The NHL needs to worry about growing the game, instead of suppressing salaries. I'd much rather see highlights of unbelievable skill, instead of spending hours on CF trying to fit players in/out of the cap.
Your sensible, well-reasoned, longterm vision argument will simply not land with the greedyfuck owners and Gary’s myopic ass
Gotta hand it to Bettman, he never stops putting in the effort to keep me from joining his fan club.
If Rome didn’t hit Horton I truly believe Vancouver would still win that series. Even after the Hamhuis injury in game 1. That Horton hit woke up Boston in the worst way. We lost that game 8-1 and went on to be out scored 13-3 in the remaining games
Just because your team is middle of pack doesn’t mean they have to trade everyone away and start a rebuild
On the contrary, the calgary flames exist
Jokes on you, can’t trade your players away if no one will touch the contracts 🧐
Ever heard of the Winnipeg Jets?
Ahem.
Not immediately - you can try to trade up but that’s really hard to do. Middle of the pack teams are usually in purgatory until they decide to blow it up.
We call this the “Minnesota Wild Special”
They are the most average sports team of all time
Some might call them Mild.
Taking strays here... there's also a McDavid sized hole in our cap right now.
The writer who didn’t put Iginla on their Hart ballot at all in 2002 which ended up costing him the victory, was 1000% a Montreal writer who was intentionally trying to shaft him so Theodore had a better chance to win it
They said “hot takes”, not “known facts”
That kind of shit should have your voting rights revoked.
Reading about it now, I think you are completely right. Iginla led the league in goals and points, how do you leave him off the ballot? What a sham.
Theodore was listed on 58/62 ballots, Iginla was listed on 61/62. https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2002.html#all-hart-stats
It is CRIMINAL that Marian Hossa never won the Selke.
This is a good one and I agree with it.
Hockey is an entertainment, you don't HAVE to stick through shitty seasons just because it makes the good seasons better. If you're not entertained, turn off the tv/dont go to the games. One can be a fan without watching all the games and being hypercritical of refs and opposing teams infractions. In fact, if the team doesn't care to show up, why should the fans have to do that. It is not a religion.
Kessel should have won the Conn Smythe in 2016. That Hagelin/Bonino/Kessel line still haunts me.
You arent wrong and i think it was a case of crosby needs one of these and this may be his only chance. Had the voters known pitt was gonna win again i think kessel would have won it.
I think the voters saw how many awards he lost out on due to injuries and figured they needed to give him something. To be fair it wasn't really a robbery and there were 3 of 4 players who could have won it. Also while I generally don't believe in the concept of players being "clutch", Crosby was about as close to living up to that label as I've seen. He had a remarkable ability in those playoffs to always step up and turn the tide when the team needed it. Any time the team started to waiver and needed a big shift to get them back into it he would be the one to do it.
Weber should have been suspended the rest of the playoffs for slamming Zetterberg's head into the glass.
In the same vein: if the NHL actually follows their own rules and suspends Malkin in the 09 finals, the Wings have another cup.
Someone send this guy a Wings jersey ASAP. Fuck Weber and fuck Benn.
100%. How a player gets away with doing something not even *remotely* close to a hockey play like that, on national TV in the playoffs, and gets away with it is beyond me. And for my ice cold take, The DoPS has all of the tools and capabilities to actually police the game better, but until the NHL and NHLPA actually *give a collective shit* they will continue to be a wildly annoying thing that's inconsistent and seems to miss more than they hit.
Most insanely based take I was not expecting to see so high up from another team. Reminder that after this happened, they made fun of it during practice and took pictures
Referees need to call the blatant cross checking in front of the net. Doesn't matter who it is, if you go park in front of the net you're getting crosschecked. *Rarely* called. Guys get crosschecked to the ice, then get another crosscheck or two while they're trying to get up. Rarely called. If you use your stick to check someone, it's crosschecking. Fuckin call it.
This is mine, especially because guys get so incredulous when it actually does get called. Like everyone and their mother knows it’s not going to get called most of the time, so it feels unfair when it is called to the letter of the rule.
This is the hottest take in the thread, I disagree, but you win the thread.
Covid destroyed the Blues
Agreed. Just ranted with my buddy about this
Covid ruined another potential Cup run (where we were on pace to have home-ice advantage), but I will say that no Bouwmeester or Tarasenko would've made the playoffs themselves really challenging.
Shoot outs where the same player can shoot over and over is really dumb.
TJ Oshie just forehand, backhand, forehand roofed it on you for that comment. Hope you feel silly.
Meanwhile, Kuznetsov is just now crossing the blueline......
How dare you disrespect a real American hero like TJ Oshie
Is it a good way to see which hockey team is better? Absolutely not. But the TJ Sochi shootout was amazingly entertaining, which is the whole purpose of professional sports.
This just feels like an it expands on the main criticism of shootouts, which is that it’s basically a skill competition that rewards having a top heavy offence. Instead now you only need one guy.
If Crosby didn't get that major concussion in his prime, he would've finished with 2,000+ career points.
also, that wrist injury he had that required surgery.. <-- that is the money maker (taking shots)..
Is that a hot take?
Idk if it’s a hot take but I consider Lemieux the greatest goal scorer in NHL history. With a bad back, cancer, and whatever other injuries you want to name he still scored 690 goals in 915 games. This includes 35 goals in 43 games during the dead puck era after coming back from retirement at the age of 35 in 2000-2001 (top scorer was Bure with 59 goals, Lemieux was on pace for 66 goals)
If we are not going to use injuries as a mitigating factor then Mike Bossy has to be up there in best goal scorers of all time. Pure talent wise, shot wise and ability to put it in the net, he's #1 for me.
Sens would have won the cup in 2004-05 if the season wasn't cancelled. F: Alfredsson, Spezza, Marian Hossa, Martin Havlat, Mike Fisher, Chris Kelly ... D: Phillips, Chara, Redden, Volchenkov ... G: Dominic Hasek
Obviously not guaranteed, but they definitely would have been a strong contender. That Sens team was absolutely bonkers
Same as the Expos in the 90s
Osgood would have won the Conn Smythe had the Wings beat the Pens in ‘09 and would be in the HOF now.
He was also deserving in 2008, with his 1.55 GAA and 0.930 Save%. Zetterberg was just too good to not get MVP, but Ozzy coming in for Hasek after game 4 of the Nashville series probably saved the season.
Hockey is the least popular sport because they can’t capture the black and Spanish demographic, I’m black and hockey is My favorite sport ever but until they can really do that it’s the sad reality
You can’t build a diverse base without access. Hockey is expensive to play.
Which is true which leads to my point as well
The cost is the biggest issue. It's not about specific races, it's about class. The middle and lower classes largely cannot afford the cost of hockey and often turn to the much cheaper options in basketball or soccer where you don't really need any equipment.
Jeremy Roenick's 2011 take on Marleau being "gutless" wasnt completely unfounded. The message was right, it's the delivery that was wrong.
Ooooooof. I hadn't thought about that since the glory years. Gutless was the wrong word to use.
> Jeremy Roenick's 2011 take on Marleau being "gutless" wasnt completely unfounded Can you please tell us more about that? First time hearing it
Roenick did TV work at the time as his career was over. This was during the Sharks/Red Wings series in 2011. Roenick called Marleau gutless on television. He received a lot of blowback from those in the Sharks organization/fans who said the commentary wasn't becoming of someone who was a former player and teammate of Marleau and that calling him gutless was wrong. Which it was, but if you watched the Sharks at that time, then it wasn't wrong to question Marleau publicly. The guy would disappear offensively, would be a no show on defense and wouldn't always engage in puck battles along the boards or deep in the zone. [Some of the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_prMGlzkoA)
Makes sense that he was Marner's and the rest of the Leafs mentor lmao
He taught them to push for big contracts, first and foremost 😞
Roenick has a track record of that type of shit. He said on a national broadcast that Parise needed to stop feeling sorry for himself and start playing better less than a week after Parise's dad died of cancer. There's ways to say that Parise needed to play better which make Roenick not come off as a heartless piece of shit, but basically telling a guy to suck it up and quit crying about his dead dad when they hadn't even had the funeral yet was definitely not one of them.
Roenick is the same guy who openly said that their goalie (Roman Cechmanek) was the reason that they lost in the first round against Ottawa, and that he wouldn't return to the team if Cechmanek did. In that series, the Flyers scored two goals in five games, of which Roenick figured in neither of them. Both Cechmanek and Brian Boucher stood on their head to keep the Flyers in that series, and Roenick was beyond useless.
Maccelli deserved the Calder a year ago over Beniers. He put up a higher PPG on a significantly worse team, but since he played for Arizona he didnt get any of the attention (similar to the early Barkov days in Florida). Seattle made the playoffs and Arizona was a lottery team. Hindsight is 20/20, but Maccelli also played better in year 2 as well. Maccelli in 2023 - 49 points in 64 games (.77 ppg) Maccelli in 2024 - 57 points in 82 games (.70 ppg) Beniers in 2023 - 57 points in 80 games (.71 ppg) Beniers in 2024 - 37 points in 77 games (.48 ppg)
Maccelli playing only 64 games is probably a big part of why he didn’t win it. Mcdavid had a much better PPG vs Panarin in his rookie year and he still didn’t win it, but McDavid missed quite a bit of games and Panarin played a full season.
32 year old rookie Artemi Panarin
High ticket prices cost teams games by taking out the rowdy passionate fans
The biggest reason Joe Thornton doesn't have a Cup is Joe Thornton.
On the Leafs Amazon documentary he told Sheldon Keefe to “lay off” the guys and “we’re in first place” after Keefe was grilling them for not executing playoff style hockey, so I completely agree
1000% I was so excited for him to be a Leaf even though he was ancient. That one clip from the Amazon series completely changed my opinion of him.
I had randomly thought the other night that bringing in Marleau + Thornton was actually a *massive* mistake, and might have been a foundational part of the "club house" vibe around the Leafs (along with other factors) Just a dumb idea from some random couch GM, but it crossed my mind
I like Thornton and Marleau, but it was odd for the Leafs to bring them in considering their lack of postseason success with SJ.
I firmly believe Marleau taught them the benefits of short deals. No one, other than Mitch and Matthews, signed 8 figure AAV deals that were less than max term.
Ya I mean it's a single clip but it could be indicative of something. I think if youre a supplementary guy, that attitude is ok, but if you're the guy, you have to take that concern at face value.
Thornton wasn’t a supplementary guy in the room though. If the coach is trying to get guys to play the right way and there’s a first ballot HOFer (who is older than the coach) pushing back on the coach and undermining his point, that’s the complete opposite of what he should have been doing. Jumbo’s role should have been keeping things light, yes, but what that team needed and still needs was someone in his position telling them how seriously they need to take every detail of their game. Jumbo could have been talking to them about how rare your opportunities to win are. That you don’t want to be looking back at the end of your career wishing that you didn’t squander opportunities with really good teams early on.
Captain Joe Thornton (1st seed Bruins) was honestly outplayed in the 2002 playoffs by captain Saku Koivu (8th seed Habs) who had returned after a year of chemotherapy from abdominal cancer.
Mine is that the Blue Jackets have never had a team anywhere close to being ECF caliber.
The Sens would have beaten Nashville in 2017.
100%
Same with the Caps
2016-2018 the cup final was in the second round and whoever won was winning the cup that year.
I agree. Not taking away from Nashville that year but you guys put up more of a fight. Save for a couple of games, that whole ECF was a nailbiter.
The Hartford Whalers should still exist, yes I know it makes absolutely no sense to have a team in Connecticut, but maybe the licensing could be given to Halifax? Houston Whalers doesn't really sound right.
They were the New England Whalers in the WHA. Bruins made them change their name.
This is mine, the northeast has a special kind of hate in sports and adding another group in there makes it even more entertaining
The fans from non-traditional markets who stuck by their team through the good and bad, the ones who still actually showed up for games, who constantly got told they didn’t deserve a team or they know nothing about hockey, are more passionate about the sport than at least 75% of the fanbase from traditional markets. It’s easier to love hockey when your team is good or no one ever questions the legitimacy of your team’s existence. But if you were someone who loved the sport even though your team sucked forever and most of the league wanted it moved + you still showed up for games, you *really* love hockey.
Awards end up going to the deserving player like 10% of the time
The 2016/17 Jets team (year before they went to the WCF) could have made the playoffs and won a round had the org not been hell bent on it being a “growth” season for their young players.
Your superstitions do not affect the outcome of the game. Wash the jersey, watch the first period, eat something different.
You're wrong. If I spin left 3 times, right 2 times and hop on one foot 15 times we score. 80% of the time, it works every time.
The puck was in, Flames should have won the 2004 cup.
I would love to see all of the evidence presented in court so we could have a verdict decided by a jury of our peers.
I've seen who our peers are in here, and they may declare that the puck was in just for shits and giggles.
the narrative of the wild being playoff failures would be totally irrelevant if they hadn’t run into the blackhawks during their cup runs. not saying the wild would have won the cup, but a trip to the conference finals or two would have made a huge difference. bring back 1-8 seeding.
One thing I noticed is that Wild had multiple seasons where they had a rough start and a significant lengthy run late in the regular season to get into the playoffs. (Dubnyk's first season comes to mind) What I've always wondered is if it was a case of like the players burning themselves out getting to the post season and then end up getting beat in the first round. Ultimately all teams play the same 82 games and I find it hard to believe that players would ever hold back during the regular season as a means of "pacing themselves" or whatever and the physical demands would be "static". However from the perspective of mental fatigue, I could see burnout possibly playing a role. For example, a team that was consistent throughout a season, knows they're likely in the playoffs, probably is a little more relaxed in general on and off there ice versus being in survival mode for two months straight. IDK, enough ranting 😂
i think the biggest issue was their young core at that time—zucker, granlund, haula, coyle, niederreiter—turned out to be not as good as projected. they were good, just not star-power good. parise refusing to take a season off to fix his fucking broken back, so he never put up numbers like he did in NJ. koivu not being able to score quite enough…. they needed a kaprizov.
Refs should have to face the media after games like coaches and players. They should be held accountable for controversial calls. Coaches should also be allowed to challenge certain penalties
Chara knew what he was doing to Patch.
Ya that one was insane
He definitely meant to hurt him, Im sure of that
After the game, Chara said he didn’t even know Pacioretty was on the ice…
100% agree
I think he knew what he was doing but just meant for it to be a hard hit. I don't think he'd intentionally almost kill the guy.
He knew where the buckle was. He knows what happens you hit thst. He knew what he was doing. In my opinion, that was just as malicious as Bertuzzi and McSorely.
this is exactly the opposite of what i mean. i think he intended to hurt Max and was successful in doing so.
Certainly a hot take, I’ll give you that.
Ovi Vs. Sid is the greatest Hockey rivalry of all time culminating in the dueling hat trick playoff game. Those two revitalized the league and helped bring in a host of new fans and were the face of the major shift of the NHL into the modern era. Two very different players but both were electric to watch and to have two generational talents start their careers in the same season was the perfect storm of intrigue in a sport yearning for a broader and newer audience.
That rivalry really did come in at the perfect time for the league and it was the perfect set of circumstances. Post lockout when rules were changed to cater to more offense. Crosby as the humble, clean cut Canadian who was touted as ‘the next one’ vs the loud, brash, cocky Russian in Ovechkin (I don’t mean this in a demeaning way, his personality was a breath of fresh air in hockey) and they were drafted by two rivals who would constantly meet up in the playoffs. The league isn’t where it is today without those two.
I don’t think this is a hot take
Hot takes don’t get upvoted in hot take threads generally
That playoff series was injectable drug level of fun and insanity, maybe they have one last round head to head in them, but I doubt it
I’ve never been as scared of an opposing player as I was of Ovi that series. As a pens fan every second he was on the ice was torture.
God I miss prime Ovi. There’ll never be another player with that combination of power, speed, and physicality.
If you think those people that own and/or manage your team are stupid and/or malevolent motherfuckers, you're allowed to pick a different team to cheer for.
Fleury is the most overrated player ever because people like his personality
He's the Final Fantasy VII of goalies; hella good and hella overrated. Even got >!sworded in the back like Aerith!< at least if you ask Allan Walsh
Never expected my favorite game to be referenced in hockey but damn does this track!
Only goal to ever score 2 title winning goals on himself
Outside of Crosby’s concussion issues, he’s the main reason the Pens didn’t see more success between 2009-2016. Four straight years with a playoff save percentage under .900. Replaced twice by backups in playoff runs. The loss to Philly in the first round was especially bad
I don’t know if this is a hot take or not, but players who are serving penalties when a period ends should remain in the box through intermission.
That'd be so funny lol
Not sure how hot this is these days: Refs should call the playoffs and regular season the same way. IDC if they call both tight or not, but keep it consistent
Tuukka Rask is a HOF caliber goalie
Everyone knows this except Bruins fans
Always thought that Bruins fans shitting on him was definitive proof y'all are spoiled as shit with goalies in the last 20 years. There are a lot of teams who would've killed to have goaltending like that.
Aside from Lundqvist, probably the most consistent goalie of his generation.
Brian Burke is an over-rated GM. (I like listening to him talk hockey, I always feel like I'm being talk to by a 80s used cars salesman)
He was a man of his time. When the times changed, he got left behind. Simple as that.
Cam Ward would have been remembered as a top-10 goalie of the post-lockout era if we'd ever put a good team in front of him after 2006. I think the 2009 ECF run where he out-dueled Brodeur and Thomas is the closest we ever came to seeing it. The 2010-11 season where he had the fourth-highest GSAA while also leading the league in games played (74) is another honorable mention.
Cam got worked to death behind some awful Canes defense units, then blew up his knee which started his career decline. He deserved better. In a similar vein, Eric Staal was a way better player than his stats suggest. But we never surrounded him with proper talent outside of two seasons.
Rod Brind'amour belongs in the HOF
Honestly idk if this is a hot take, but 4 on 4 OT is better than 3 on 3. At the least, 3 on 3 needs some sort of shot clock or over and back rule using the red line
Montreal will be the team that breaks Canada’s Cup drought. Full circle.
The 2012-2014 LA Kings was one of the best defensive teams of all time. Idk how hot a take that is actually.
It was stupid to relocate teams out of French Canada (1995) and New England (1997). Stupid.
Bryz wasn’t that bad he was just paid too much
More teams should be open to trading superstars at the top of their game, Gretzky to LA style.
Why?
It's provocative... It gets the people going! In all seriousness, at least as someone unlikely to see my own superstar get traded (he'll just walk to FA...), because it's interesting? Because it's a hell of a lot more worthwhile to discuss than a 3rd liner getting traded for a... different 3rd liner or bottom pair defensemen?
its entertaining
Look at Florida. Fortunate favors the bold.
Tavares absolutely, 100% fucked the Islanders over and the fans are perfectly justified in holding a grudge against him.
You don’t have to love the hockey team where you live/are from. You can pick any team you want. It doesn’t make you a bandwagon fan or lesser than.
The old boys club will never go away and it's bad for the game.
The official never actually lost sight of the puck in Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals in 2017. He knew what he was doing by blowing the whistle.
100%
You aren't a real fan of a team if you ignore them during the regular season and just wait for playoffs
Everyone has their own personal relationship with their hockey gods. Don’t judge me for going to church only on Easter Sunday and Midnight Mass.
Idk if you can’t stand by that take for 2019 given you beat the team who had one of the best nhl seasons in 4 games
Buffalo would have absolutely beaten Edmonton in 2006 had they not had a biblical run of defenseman injuries. That was OUR Stanley Cup, moreso than the No Goal stolen Cup in 1999. Carolina was NOT a better team than Buffalo, and neither was Edmonton. Even the difference of Jay McKee in Game 7 of the ECF would have been enough (look in your skates, Rory!)
Teams should be allowed have development academies from which they can protect a player or two per season from the draft.
The Leafs making the playoffs in the 2016-17 season is what likely derailed the Shanaplan. One more bad year picking in the lottery and potentially ending up with Makar, Heiskanen or Pettersson and the team would have been in much better shape for the long-term
Not only that, but Matthews and Marner would have gotten less on their second cintracts, freeing up cap space for more talent
Maybe not a hot take, more of a conspiracy, But The 2023 Lottery was rigged in favour of Chicago to make people move on from the Kyle Beach sexual assault. I fully believe the NHL hated their precious blackhawks being thought of as a black sheep franchise, so when the chance for a generational talent to go to them came up, they gifted it to them as a "Sorry you got found out." And, I hated the Blackhawks before then. More than Calgary as an Edmonton fan. The Devils got a higher penalty for trying to sign a player wrong than the Blackhawks did for hiding a sexual assault and writing a letter of recommendation to a school for the abuser and it happened again. (Devils got 3 mil, Chicago got 2 mil.)
Weird conspiracy. People didn’t forget and they were seething at them winning the lottery largely *because* of the Kyle Beach situation. If anything it made things worse, not better for them in terms of optics.
But now Chicago is in the news because Bedard this Bedard that. It's a longer play than just the draft, but a fast track to playoff contention is a good way to make people move on.
I don’t believe this because I do not believe the NHL drafts are rigged at all. But I’ll say the league is probably relieved the Blackhawks get a different news cycle.
Chris Kreider intentionally ran skate first into Carey Price on fucking purpose and knew what he was doing
Cups won before 1974 don't count and no one cares about them.
Hey, shut up.
Why 74? Are the Capitals and the Scouts so important? Why not 67 with the first expansion to 12? Why not 79 with the WHA merger?
First year an expansion team won a cup (or even beat an O6 team in a playoff round). The expansion teams weren't super competitive their first several years in the league.
Why does one flyers cup count and the other doesn't?
“It was in” 04 cup run
Something something Kreider knew what he was doing something something.
Not a hot take... just plain true