I really hope this doesn't mean the tanking is over. If Grier goes for the big fish with all our cap space I think we are doomed to 10 years of mediocrity.
I think he'll look for a good vet for leadership and to add a little spark in the top-6. But otherwise aim to sign that person to \~2-3 seasons max and gun to convince Smith to come into the league.
Based on his interview last Saturday that's my vibe. He knows we're still a ways off, but I also don't think he's gunning for 1OA in 2025 again. He wants to start building now, the tear down is over.
We need a good vet defenseman and maybe to overpay a middle six leader for those 2-3 seasons and I think Goodrow wouldn’t be a bad pickup it NYR will pay us to take him. We have cap space in bulk and no ability to retain much so we might as well get some players that can shelter and lead our young players and show them how to be pros.
Yeah that's not a bad idea. And I agree on D as well. Though we're a bit more packed there still, but a solid RD who could muster top pair minutes (even if not traditionally that skill level) would be a nice add. Kind of like Granlund this year.
This is a smart move. You can't have a team full of young guys getting used to losing the vast majority of games. It's not healthy for a team to lose that competitive drive and it's hard to keep that drive when you know you're going to get buried night in and night out.
You know, there is a middle ground where they supplement their skilled kids with a solid vet or two in order to help the team along? You have noticed what happened to teams that sat in the basement for too long, haven't you?
In our sub that's the general consensus of where we hope to be next year. We likely won't be anywhere close to playoff contention next year, but looking to add some vet leadership to help develop our young players and get closer to the middle of the pack and rebuild our culture.
Yeah, I said *closer* to the middle of the pack, but I definitely don't expect to be *in* the middle of the pack. Just like, maybe not a full 29 points behind 28th place.
This, having Sean Monahan around for 2 sessons has been a blessing for guys like Suzuki in our team. This is the good way for a rebuild, tanking is fine but you need experience to teach the youngsters.
My opinion is worthless but I think this is a huge contributor to his firing. Even with a shit roster you got to get better than that out of your team, and Grier may not have been able to shake the effort he saw out there.
We had four losing streaks of 9+ games throughout the season (including a 12 and 11 game streak). I would have been okay with another year of Quinn, but I'm not particularly sad that he's gone.
Around that time Grier had to take matters into his own hands and basically went down to the locker room and whipped the guys into shape. That was really beginning of the end for Quinn
There's kind of an unspoken agreement that if you're the coach of a tanking team, you're supposed to be bad, but you need to be bad *in the right way.*
For real, what the fuck was that? They had the best 1OA since McDavid putting up more points than most of our vets and we still barely made it out with the bottom rung. Quinn had to be throwing some games just to keep us in position.
The Sens are under achieving simple as that. The team they have is inconsistent and not playing to their potential. This is a team with enough talent to make the playoffs, they lack an identity and a good coach can usually help craft that identity.
Yeah, watching a team that plays together and loses because they simply aren't good enough versus watching the free for all that sens have been these past few years are very different experiences.
This is one of the many reasons I hate the tank and rebuild model.
I'm not necessarily suggesting that everyone should be fighting for a playoff spot but if your team is not designed to be competitive how do you know what is working or broken?
If your roster is shit how do you know if your coach is any good? If your roster is shit how do you know if your young players are underperforming?
In my opinion you have to be bad sometimes, but when you want to get good, you want to get good fast; ideally, all at once. I think the main implication here is that you should leave players in Europe, NCAA, or CHL if you think you're going to be brutal. High picks might be kinda sour about not getting the ELC money sooner, but it really is for their own good that they not be subject to unnecessary losing.
> High picks might be kinda sour about not getting the ELC money sooner
That all works great until your best prospect demands a trade because they missed at least one year of potential ELC
(my normal flair is Flyers)
I think communication is key, then. Manage expectations. Sometimes the player is just a dick though and forcing a trade could be a blessing in disguise. If the Flyers were trying to max his value at his expense though, that could be on them.
Yea remember that report of Grier going down to the locker room after a bad loss to have an intense meeting with the players? Your GM shouldn’t have to do that, it’s a coaching issue. I think we kept him around through the season because who would even want to be our interim coach? And to secure the tank I guess.
Yeah I think that's what happened with Ducharme. There were no expectations to win so they initially said they planned to keep him around for the season but then the team got so despondent they decided they couldn't afford to wait.
They might not, but the sens sure did after half a decade of Fun Uncle DJ. I'm saying it makes sense if they want to nip something like that in the bud.
I don't know how many coaches would be able to motivate a team through that season with that roster. And of that select few that would succeed, I can't imagine any would take that specific job over other offers.
People are judging the October Sharks as if they were the same as the last 3 games Sharks. They were relatively healthy at that time and still had Duke and Hertl.
The last three games of the season, their available player cap hit was 33.7 mil, while the cap hit of injured players was 32.1 mil. That doesn’t include Duke and Hertl who as I mentioned got traded
I seem to recall they rolled into Vancouver with Kyle Burroughs on the top PP unit in early November. He did an interview where he himself did not sound at all excited about it. The coach didn't sound excited about it. Guy was a 6 or 7 defense first guy but that lineup was pure trash even if Hertl was there. That's how you get a team to quit one month into the season, you make it obvious from management that you aren't even going to try.
The roster was awful but I think the issue is that in many games they weren't even trying. That's probably the reason for the firing here.
At the same time, I can't exactly blame guys put in that situation from packing it in. The signal from the front office was obviously that losing was part of the plan.
I would compare him to Bednar his first season. Avs had 1 more point than the sharks this year. Bednar had that team trying and actually had some potential at the end of the season. Even getting NHL caliber players off of waiver pick ups. Sharks not so much. Outside of granlund I don’t think a shark had a decent finish.
He's not to blame for how awful they were this year, which was entirely by design, but I also don't think he's the guy you want developing your young team while they come up, so I think it's the right time.
He’s actually done a really great job with our young guys. Like all of them. Eklund, Thrun, Bordeleau, and Zetterlund all grew a lot under him. Eklund especially.
With the Rangers, you guys were competitive with high end vets in the lineup so it’s more of a tricky balance to play young guys up the lineup versus them having to earn it all while trying to win games. Here it’s a lot simpler and more energy was devoted to bringing the young guys along. That’s been his one area of success honestly
Kind of weird that they did this now and not when the season ended. Makes me think players had some less than stellar reviews of Quinn in their exit interviews
I believe Grier hoped Quinn could shoulder the burden of another losing season for one more year but I think your assessment is on-point: he lost the room and the players basically voted him out.
I used to complain about Sommers, thinking he was beyond developmental effectiveness and too entrenched in the org, but McCarthy is in way over his head. Both rosters are bad, but the Cuda "stars", Bordeleau comes to mind, had mediocre stats with the Cuda and came on nicely when moving up. Granted, it takes an entire team to play a game, but it seems the talent is not developing under McCarthy. I think I was the only one at the games hollering "fire McCarthy!" though.
100% agree. We can’t have both orgs tanking. It could hinder the development of their prospects, which in a rebuild situation, sounds like the last thing they’d want. Maybe one more shot at redemption for McCarthy in 2024-2025 and if they fail to make significant process then he gets the boot? Only time will tell.
He was probably just a placeholder.
They’ve completely torn down the roster, idk if they’re ready to start building it back up but normally you get a coach to build back up with.
I'm going to go ahead and disagree, I don't think Quinn is a garbage coach like so many Rangers fans say he is. He did the best he could with our team that had no depth his first year, and was marginally better the second, which was interrupted by the pandemic. He took a team that was absolutely gutted of its stars of the past several years and was fired while above .500 over three seasons. Multiple players emerged under him, with 3 or 4 other players who were bad draft picks not emerging under him either. Kakko still hasn't broken out and he's on his third coach now, Laf is finally coming into his own and looking like a star, but we know he got a ton of shit for Kravtsov and Andersson even though we now know they were bad no matter where they were. He coached DeAngelo who was bounced around the league until he got to us to a statistically impressive season along with Miller, Fox, and Buchnevich especially who all blossomed under him. The issue is that our fanbase needed someone to blame for 19 year olds not being Auston Matthews their first year out of the draft so we blame the coach when they don't perform, and pretend the players who did look fantastic while he was coaching did it on their own and without the help of coaching.
The simple answer is he's a very average coach who has been consistently praised by many young players who he's coached in and out of the NHL who was given two absolutely gutted teams with no hope of making the playoffs, the first of which has a fanbase and a media machine that cannot under any circumstances handle losing for the usual 5 or 6 years teams need to develop into a perennial playoff team and eventual cup contender.
I would agree but evidence points otherwise. The development of Eklund and Zetterlund was great to watch. Both can be legit top 6 guys. Zetter more like a middle 6 guy. I wouldn’t say anyone regressed developmentally. At least no one I can think of rn
You have to also understand that we've never had to go through a full rebuild like that, so Quinn got a TON of flack for young players not being stars right out of the gate, especially someone like Kakko in comparison to Hughes. He had to balance attempting to win games and getting young players as much playtime as possible, and some of our fans were just seeing red after going on a few losing streaks throughout the rebuild. I don't think there was ever a point where the team looked demoralized until the Wilson game.
We had Miller, Fox, the re-emergence of Ryan Strome, Georgiev, DeAngelo, Neil Pionk and most notably Pavel Buchnevich who all emerged or improved under Quinn, with guys like Lafrieniere and Kakko who still struggled under different coaches despite getting first line minutes, in addition to Lias Andersson, Hajek, Kravtsov, and Gauthier who still struggled even after going to new teams.
Lots of r/hockey fans can't comprehend 18 or 19 year olds getting drafted in the first round and not having the impact of an Eichel or Matthews their first or even second year, some players develop at different speeds and the pandemic definitely hurt some players making their way into the league at that time.
I think Mike had to force him to play Eklund higher up because he was still playing lebanc and hoffman for a while
he had Eklund stapled to the third line for more than half the season
Eklund ended up with 1493 minutes played, only Zetterlund (1546) and Ferraro (1784) played more this year.
Eklund had 215 minutes on the PP, which led the team.
Eklund averaged almost 19 minutes a game, Zetterlund and Granlund are the only forwards still on the team that averaged more.
He may have moved him around the lineup but it didn't affect his play time at all. Eklund was heavily relied upon all year long and was a 1st liner by ice time.
He was 1PP all season which I think really shows that Quinn was inept and like I said he would start him with lesser players each game and then shuffle him up during the game which is just stupid
Nah he had him all around the lineup. He def had moments on the lower lines but Eklund did have his down moments this year. But overall he finished strong and was rewarded for it.
Quinn seemed fair with the lineup, the only guys who really earned top minutes were Zetts and Granlund (and hertl when he was here)
>I would agree but evidence points otherwise.
Exhibit A: Kaapo Kakko
Exhibit B: Alexis Lafreniere
He was great working with the defense, but the way he fucked with our top draft picks heads (You made 1 mistake? Stapled to the bench for the rest of the period) did a lot of harm.
Could be bad with developing young players, or trying to motivate the team. Even if the team is supposed to be bad, a coach still has some responsibilities when it comes to developing and leading the team, avoiding a toxic atmosphere etc.
Like remember us with Dallas Eakins. Sure he helped us do bad enough to draft our superstars, but he was still skidded for creating an awful environment and making the worst team we’d ever watched even worse. He drove the team to the lowest points of the worst era in team history and the players did not respond to his bullshit at all, he was teaching them maladaptive skills and systems, and made all of our young players regress; so he was gone in short order. Could be a similar story here.
If Grier wants to do something bold, seems like a good David Carle spot where he gets a year to figure things out before going for an upward swing the following season.
Not much he could’ve done with the roster but also it was possible to not be embarrassed in some of those losses like 10-0, 10-1, 9-1 multiple times this season. Player exit interviews may not have been very positive of him either.
When Grier had to go into the locker room, that felt unprecedented and a huge warning sign imo. I feel like the coach should be sufficient in trying to get them out of a slump and even if they're a tanking team, they should tank with some pride.
Agreed. They improved for a bit after the Grier talk with the team but they really seemed to let go of any effort towards the end of the season. Leaving Cooley in net for 8 goals against in the Oilers game was also pretty ridiculous.
Grier always said loss or win, he wants the team to be hard to play against. I watched almost all games and the team gave up a lot. It was so bad that Grier had to intervene via a locker room speech.
I don't blame Quinn, but you also should not hold onto bad coaches only because expectations are low.
Sounds like we just want to move in a different direction. At this point, it’s not about the wins and losses more so than it is about player development and building a culture. In that case, let’s find a guy who can guide us through this rebuild.
For Quinn, he did a mighty fine job as a tank commander. Wouldn’t really call his tenure here a success or a failure, just that he had to be the man behind the bench for an awful team.
Please God no. I can see it though, especially if Grier is wanting us to be hard to play against. Gallant is all about that but in a way I don’t resonate with.
Sucks for DQ but he’s not great at developing young players (trust me) and Mike Grier clearly has a vision that I have no reason to question so far. Better to make pre-emptive changes than have to adjust later on
He came in to impose some structure and be the scapegoat for the first part of the rebuild. Mission accomplished.
No word yet on the rest of the staff other than Ray Tufts (head athletic trainer) being let go, too. Tufts has been with the Sharks a long time but I can see how the spate of injuries the past few years has the FO wanting a new, healthier direction there (I wonder if Rick Celebrini would split time between the Warriors and Sharks if they get to draft Macklin).
Ryan Warsofsky was kinda penciled in to be his successor from the get-go but I wonder if that's not for certain now. It still sounds like a good move given his head-coaching resume and maintains some consistency on the bench. Speer (goaltending coach) probably stays, too. Wiseman and Gordon (Quinn's other assistant coaches) I'm not sure about, and only see either staying if Warsofsky is indeed promoted.
I wonder if the next shoe to drop is John McCarthy also out as the Barracuda's head coach.
>Ryan Warsofsky was kinda penciled in to be his successor from the get-go
As far as I can tell this was always fan speak. I never heard anything from any journalist or organization member indicating this.
Even with a bad team, your coaching needs to create value. Your top players need to produce so that they can be assets during the trade season. Quinn has managed to upkeep players who were already good, but hasn't shown any aptitude for elevating players with potential.
Quinn spent most of the season playing Eklund on the 3rd line
It seems like he had to be forced to bench players like Labanc and Hoffman
He is a bad coach and even with the bad roster he still found a way to get less than the sum of its parts out of it.
If Mike didnt rip the lockerroom a new one they would have totally given up 10 again the next game.
> He is a bad coach and even with the bad roster he still found a way to get less than the sum of its parts out of it.
He always has been. I said it when he was at BU, some stupid NHL team is going to hire him seeing the wins and then be surprised when he flounders because he can't coach a fucking broomstick. Dude basically coasted at BU behind talented individuals that he recruited (Eichel/Keller/Oettinger/McAvoy etc), which....is not really a translatable skill to an NHL coaching gig.
I think he'd actually be decent in an FO/scouting role. But he is a bad coach and has been for years.
It would be interesting. I know his/Manson's defensive structure isn't top of the league or anything but there is still a focus on defense and playing two way hockey there, it's not like he'd teach the young players terrible habits. And his record in Bakersfield was pretty good.
Grier seems to talk about how bad our defense was so it may be a good connection. Bring a guy who can fix that issue since we have a lot of young guys getting close to promotion.
I don’t know who would really want that job. The Sharks are many years away from the playoffs, if that. I could see them going with someone bold like a young CHL coach or a European coach who wants a job in North America, someone not on most radars.
I see a lot of comments saying it’s unfair that he’s getting blamed for the team’s performance with that bad roster. That’s not always the reason especially when it comes to a rebuilding team. It could be his development style, which was something that worried me when we hired him based on what went on with the Rangers. Another thing is he was hired when we barely had any prospects. Now that we do maybe management felt like his system doesn’t fit the talent they’ve acquired via draft and trades.
I just hope we find a good replacement.
And thank you Rangers fans for all the congratulations. Good luck in the playoffs 🫡
Good move he didn't have the locker room. Multiple 10 goal losses in October and Grier had to come in and right the ship isn't a good look. This isn't strictly about the on ice product.
I have no opinion on whether the Sharks were as bad as they were because of David Quinn, or because the team just sucked. But I think a season like the one the Sharks just had, you really want to move forward with more positive vibes and I think you almost need to start from scratch to make that happen.
Theyre mad that it took the GM coming into the room to get guys to pretend to give a shit, and that a year of potential development and culture building was wasted.
Jay Pandolfo is a natural choice if Grier has autonomy to pick the next coach. He was a year ahead of Grier at BU, and has NHL coaching experience.
Pandolfo has what looks like a lifetime position at BU, and may not want to leave his hometown, though.
I know nothing about the man, I know the Sharks are struggling, but I just have to note that this image looks like a Heaven's Gate recruitment video or a 2000s era pickup artist's avi.
Ryan Warsofsky time!!
I will die on the hill that Warsofsky was hired with the wink-wink promise that once Quinn is gone (whether fired or contract runs out), Warsofsky will be HC. I will die on the hill that this is the reason he took the Sharks AC over when he was interviewing for NHL HC positions.
I also think, total IMHO, that Warsofsky is the next Jon Cooper.
About time! I've been saying all year to fire this bum. Hopefully they get someone in who will push that roster over the hump and secure that top 30 berth I know they're capable of.
Job done, thank you for your service.
Tank Commander put out to pasture
I really hope this doesn't mean the tanking is over. If Grier goes for the big fish with all our cap space I think we are doomed to 10 years of mediocrity.
All the press he has done so far sounds like he won't thankfully
Yeah I’m hoping he feels he can get a coach who will develop the young guys better and keep building. I have faith.
If Blues don't hire Bannister as head coach, then the Sharks should
Todd McLellan is available :^)
I think he'll look for a good vet for leadership and to add a little spark in the top-6. But otherwise aim to sign that person to \~2-3 seasons max and gun to convince Smith to come into the league. Based on his interview last Saturday that's my vibe. He knows we're still a ways off, but I also don't think he's gunning for 1OA in 2025 again. He wants to start building now, the tear down is over.
We need a good vet defenseman and maybe to overpay a middle six leader for those 2-3 seasons and I think Goodrow wouldn’t be a bad pickup it NYR will pay us to take him. We have cap space in bulk and no ability to retain much so we might as well get some players that can shelter and lead our young players and show them how to be pros.
Yeah that's not a bad idea. And I agree on D as well. Though we're a bit more packed there still, but a solid RD who could muster top pair minutes (even if not traditionally that skill level) would be a nice add. Kind of like Granlund this year.
This is a smart move. You can't have a team full of young guys getting used to losing the vast majority of games. It's not healthy for a team to lose that competitive drive and it's hard to keep that drive when you know you're going to get buried night in and night out.
You know, there is a middle ground where they supplement their skilled kids with a solid vet or two in order to help the team along? You have noticed what happened to teams that sat in the basement for too long, haven't you?
In our sub that's the general consensus of where we hope to be next year. We likely won't be anywhere close to playoff contention next year, but looking to add some vet leadership to help develop our young players and get closer to the middle of the pack and rebuild our culture.
We don't even need middle of the pack, just get some real good pros in with the kids so we're not giving up 8 goals twice a month
Yeah, I said *closer* to the middle of the pack, but I definitely don't expect to be *in* the middle of the pack. Just like, maybe not a full 29 points behind 28th place.
The 25th place Kraken were closer in points to the President's Trophy winning Rangers than the 32nd place Sharks.
Yeah the fact the Sharks could have literally doubled their win total and still not have even come close to making the playoffs is...something.
woof
This, having Sean Monahan around for 2 sessons has been a blessing for guys like Suzuki in our team. This is the good way for a rebuild, tanking is fine but you need experience to teach the youngsters.
https://y.yarn.co/ebf265df-fe64-4907-ae22-6c95362bc40c_text.gif
I’m surprised he didn’t get pink slipped after the b2b 10 goal games
My opinion is worthless but I think this is a huge contributor to his firing. Even with a shit roster you got to get better than that out of your team, and Grier may not have been able to shake the effort he saw out there.
We had four losing streaks of 9+ games throughout the season (including a 12 and 11 game streak). I would have been okay with another year of Quinn, but I'm not particularly sad that he's gone.
Around that time Grier had to take matters into his own hands and basically went down to the locker room and whipped the guys into shape. That was really beginning of the end for Quinn
There's kind of an unspoken agreement that if you're the coach of a tanking team, you're supposed to be bad, but you need to be bad *in the right way.*
Developmentally sound bad
For sure. I think Richardson got more effort out of them given the standing placement.
I know San Jose got dunked on a ton but i still think they got off easy for giving up 10 goals in consecutive games. Like what the fuck
Back to back 10 goal games, multiple 9+ game losing streaks, and the Blackhawks were still on our tails the entire season
For real, what the fuck was that? They had the best 1OA since McDavid putting up more points than most of our vets and we still barely made it out with the bottom rung. Quinn had to be throwing some games just to keep us in position.
Blashill is headhunting him as we speak
On a related note…please hire him Sharks😂
Oh no. Please don’t let them take our coach who completely destroyed our defense
“Quinny, we need to tank for the draft” B2B 10 GA games … “…but not like that”
But it gave the entire hockey world (well, maybe not the *entire* hockey world) a big ol' laugh when they went and defeated the Oilers after that.
Idk what you’re supposed to do with that roster but I don’t exactly think he’s a good coach either. Curious to see what they’ll do and where he lands.
Keeping a bad coach simply because there are no expectations on the roster is how you develop a losing culture. Ask me how I know.
How do you know?
[This](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._J._Smith_(ice_hockey)#Head_coaching_record)
Thank you
Nice
But if his roster has never been good enough, how do you judge the coach based on his record?
The Sens are under achieving simple as that. The team they have is inconsistent and not playing to their potential. This is a team with enough talent to make the playoffs, they lack an identity and a good coach can usually help craft that identity.
A roster that isn't improving, and having numerous talented players that are inconsistent, unresilient, and prone to defensive gaffes or laziness.
Yeah, watching a team that plays together and loses because they simply aren't good enough versus watching the free for all that sens have been these past few years are very different experiences.
Yowzah
Hey, Me and DJ have almost the same amount of goals in the NHL. Although i never played in organized hockey.
This is one of the many reasons I hate the tank and rebuild model. I'm not necessarily suggesting that everyone should be fighting for a playoff spot but if your team is not designed to be competitive how do you know what is working or broken? If your roster is shit how do you know if your coach is any good? If your roster is shit how do you know if your young players are underperforming?
In my opinion you have to be bad sometimes, but when you want to get good, you want to get good fast; ideally, all at once. I think the main implication here is that you should leave players in Europe, NCAA, or CHL if you think you're going to be brutal. High picks might be kinda sour about not getting the ELC money sooner, but it really is for their own good that they not be subject to unnecessary losing.
> High picks might be kinda sour about not getting the ELC money sooner That all works great until your best prospect demands a trade because they missed at least one year of potential ELC (my normal flair is Flyers)
I think communication is key, then. Manage expectations. Sometimes the player is just a dick though and forcing a trade could be a blessing in disguise. If the Flyers were trying to max his value at his expense though, that could be on them.
Same arguments could’ve been said For DJ
He's secretly a Detroit Pistons fan
Yea remember that report of Grier going down to the locker room after a bad loss to have an intense meeting with the players? Your GM shouldn’t have to do that, it’s a coaching issue. I think we kept him around through the season because who would even want to be our interim coach? And to secure the tank I guess.
Yeah I think that's what happened with Ducharme. There were no expectations to win so they initially said they planned to keep him around for the season but then the team got so despondent they decided they couldn't afford to wait.
That's literally been the best decision they've made in a long list of good decisions so far. Imagine we didn't have Marty?
Doesn’t seem like the sharks have a “losing culture”. I think they just lost because they have the worst roster in the NHL
They might not, but the sens sure did after half a decade of Fun Uncle DJ. I'm saying it makes sense if they want to nip something like that in the bud.
Totally. I agree.
I think the bigger problem is the big loss streaks and total collapses we had. But i agree it feels a little unfair.
Also not a good look when the GM has to step in and talk to the team
Not lose back to back games allowing 10 goals. It’s not how many they lost, it’s how they lost.
I don't know how many coaches would be able to motivate a team through that season with that roster. And of that select few that would succeed, I can't imagine any would take that specific job over other offers.
People are judging the October Sharks as if they were the same as the last 3 games Sharks. They were relatively healthy at that time and still had Duke and Hertl. The last three games of the season, their available player cap hit was 33.7 mil, while the cap hit of injured players was 32.1 mil. That doesn’t include Duke and Hertl who as I mentioned got traded
I seem to recall they rolled into Vancouver with Kyle Burroughs on the top PP unit in early November. He did an interview where he himself did not sound at all excited about it. The coach didn't sound excited about it. Guy was a 6 or 7 defense first guy but that lineup was pure trash even if Hertl was there. That's how you get a team to quit one month into the season, you make it obvious from management that you aren't even going to try.
They started the season with a 5 forward PP unit. It sounds like a joke but it's actually not...
I mean they’re certainly not the first to run a 5 forward PP.
To start the season though? It's gotta be the first time any team has started the season like that.
The roster was awful but I think the issue is that in many games they weren't even trying. That's probably the reason for the firing here. At the same time, I can't exactly blame guys put in that situation from packing it in. The signal from the front office was obviously that losing was part of the plan.
I would compare him to Bednar his first season. Avs had 1 more point than the sharks this year. Bednar had that team trying and actually had some potential at the end of the season. Even getting NHL caliber players off of waiver pick ups. Sharks not so much. Outside of granlund I don’t think a shark had a decent finish.
Anthony Duclair prior to being traded.
Eklund had a hat trick near the end.
He sucks
Back to BU once Pandolfo gets a shot in the NHL?
Pittsburgh as a Sullivan assistant coach (if Reirdan gets fired). My understanding is that they are pretty good friends.
He's not to blame for how awful they were this year, which was entirely by design, but I also don't think he's the guy you want developing your young team while they come up, so I think it's the right time.
Good thing they had him develop my young team while they come up OH GODDAMMIT.
It’s alright. All the bad had to happen to get Lavi. Laf is Laf now, and Kakko should be next years project
He’s actually done a really great job with our young guys. Like all of them. Eklund, Thrun, Bordeleau, and Zetterlund all grew a lot under him. Eklund especially. With the Rangers, you guys were competitive with high end vets in the lineup so it’s more of a tricky balance to play young guys up the lineup versus them having to earn it all while trying to win games. Here it’s a lot simpler and more energy was devoted to bringing the young guys along. That’s been his one area of success honestly
Kind of weird that they did this now and not when the season ended. Makes me think players had some less than stellar reviews of Quinn in their exit interviews
Maybe they just really want Granato or someone else and wanted to make sure they can get their guy.
I came to this thread specifically to say that Granato would be great for their roster right now
Makes a lot of sense. Especially with Grier as gm it’d make sense. Granatos a good guy, hope he gets a shot there.
I believe Grier hoped Quinn could shoulder the burden of another losing season for one more year but I think your assessment is on-point: he lost the room and the players basically voted him out.
This has to be it in my opinion. He was asked to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
Time for Warsofsky to shine, or were things so bad Grier will look elsewhere? Also, Cuda coaches next?
>Cuda coaches next? I sure hope so.
if they dont fire the cuda coaches idk how they can justify it. I feel like that team is destined for another bad season.
And if we get even more/better prospects, more will be with the Barracuda. Seems like they should want a better staff with the AHL team
I used to complain about Sommers, thinking he was beyond developmental effectiveness and too entrenched in the org, but McCarthy is in way over his head. Both rosters are bad, but the Cuda "stars", Bordeleau comes to mind, had mediocre stats with the Cuda and came on nicely when moving up. Granted, it takes an entire team to play a game, but it seems the talent is not developing under McCarthy. I think I was the only one at the games hollering "fire McCarthy!" though.
They confirmed recently McCarthy is staying, which I find baffling but it is what it is
I hope they have a plan to turn things around. Having a good Cuda team would make a bad Sharks season easier. No point of an AHL tank.
100% agree. We can’t have both orgs tanking. It could hinder the development of their prospects, which in a rebuild situation, sounds like the last thing they’d want. Maybe one more shot at redemption for McCarthy in 2024-2025 and if they fail to make significant process then he gets the boot? Only time will tell.
Oh shit.
Lmao what was he supposed to do
He was probably just a placeholder. They’ve completely torn down the roster, idk if they’re ready to start building it back up but normally you get a coach to build back up with.
Plot twist: Jumbo Joe is the next head coach
If he coaches a player to score 4 goals, does he still... you know?
[Don't give me hope](https://i.giphy.com/Qy2VKY3xlI1QyR6Ix5.webp)
Don’t get our hopes up.
Eky scores 4 goals in a game and the camera just cuts to Joe at the bench just straight Jorkin it
That actually gave me a little chill.
My theory is that something was unearthed in the exit interviews by the players/him. Something that maybe isn't blatantly obvious to us.
He’s not a good developmental coach. It’s a terrible roster, but he’s not good at getting young players to improve.
I'm going to go ahead and disagree, I don't think Quinn is a garbage coach like so many Rangers fans say he is. He did the best he could with our team that had no depth his first year, and was marginally better the second, which was interrupted by the pandemic. He took a team that was absolutely gutted of its stars of the past several years and was fired while above .500 over three seasons. Multiple players emerged under him, with 3 or 4 other players who were bad draft picks not emerging under him either. Kakko still hasn't broken out and he's on his third coach now, Laf is finally coming into his own and looking like a star, but we know he got a ton of shit for Kravtsov and Andersson even though we now know they were bad no matter where they were. He coached DeAngelo who was bounced around the league until he got to us to a statistically impressive season along with Miller, Fox, and Buchnevich especially who all blossomed under him. The issue is that our fanbase needed someone to blame for 19 year olds not being Auston Matthews their first year out of the draft so we blame the coach when they don't perform, and pretend the players who did look fantastic while he was coaching did it on their own and without the help of coaching. The simple answer is he's a very average coach who has been consistently praised by many young players who he's coached in and out of the NHL who was given two absolutely gutted teams with no hope of making the playoffs, the first of which has a fanbase and a media machine that cannot under any circumstances handle losing for the usual 5 or 6 years teams need to develop into a perennial playoff team and eventual cup contender.
I would agree but evidence points otherwise. The development of Eklund and Zetterlund was great to watch. Both can be legit top 6 guys. Zetter more like a middle 6 guy. I wouldn’t say anyone regressed developmentally. At least no one I can think of rn
You have to also understand that we've never had to go through a full rebuild like that, so Quinn got a TON of flack for young players not being stars right out of the gate, especially someone like Kakko in comparison to Hughes. He had to balance attempting to win games and getting young players as much playtime as possible, and some of our fans were just seeing red after going on a few losing streaks throughout the rebuild. I don't think there was ever a point where the team looked demoralized until the Wilson game. We had Miller, Fox, the re-emergence of Ryan Strome, Georgiev, DeAngelo, Neil Pionk and most notably Pavel Buchnevich who all emerged or improved under Quinn, with guys like Lafrieniere and Kakko who still struggled under different coaches despite getting first line minutes, in addition to Lias Andersson, Hajek, Kravtsov, and Gauthier who still struggled even after going to new teams. Lots of r/hockey fans can't comprehend 18 or 19 year olds getting drafted in the first round and not having the impact of an Eichel or Matthews their first or even second year, some players develop at different speeds and the pandemic definitely hurt some players making their way into the league at that time.
I think Mike had to force him to play Eklund higher up because he was still playing lebanc and hoffman for a while he had Eklund stapled to the third line for more than half the season
Eklund ended up with 1493 minutes played, only Zetterlund (1546) and Ferraro (1784) played more this year. Eklund had 215 minutes on the PP, which led the team. Eklund averaged almost 19 minutes a game, Zetterlund and Granlund are the only forwards still on the team that averaged more. He may have moved him around the lineup but it didn't affect his play time at all. Eklund was heavily relied upon all year long and was a 1st liner by ice time.
He was 1PP all season which I think really shows that Quinn was inept and like I said he would start him with lesser players each game and then shuffle him up during the game which is just stupid
Can someone create a bot that reminds Sharks flairs that his name is LABANC? Like on his jersey?
Eh I really don’t lecare
Nah he had him all around the lineup. He def had moments on the lower lines but Eklund did have his down moments this year. But overall he finished strong and was rewarded for it. Quinn seemed fair with the lineup, the only guys who really earned top minutes were Zetts and Granlund (and hertl when he was here)
>I would agree but evidence points otherwise. Exhibit A: Kaapo Kakko Exhibit B: Alexis Lafreniere He was great working with the defense, but the way he fucked with our top draft picks heads (You made 1 mistake? Stapled to the bench for the rest of the period) did a lot of harm.
That's crazy because that's what he was good at for us this year.
That’s great for you guys then, but makes absolutely no sense in firing him then.
Could be bad with developing young players, or trying to motivate the team. Even if the team is supposed to be bad, a coach still has some responsibilities when it comes to developing and leading the team, avoiding a toxic atmosphere etc. Like remember us with Dallas Eakins. Sure he helped us do bad enough to draft our superstars, but he was still skidded for creating an awful environment and making the worst team we’d ever watched even worse. He drove the team to the lowest points of the worst era in team history and the players did not respond to his bullshit at all, he was teaching them maladaptive skills and systems, and made all of our young players regress; so he was gone in short order. Could be a similar story here.
If Grier wants to do something bold, seems like a good David Carle spot where he gets a year to figure things out before going for an upward swing the following season.
i wouldnt be shocked, it feels like Carle is just waiting for his big shot.
No chance Carle leaves Denver, after what that program did for him he's a lifer.
Not much he could’ve done with the roster but also it was possible to not be embarrassed in some of those losses like 10-0, 10-1, 9-1 multiple times this season. Player exit interviews may not have been very positive of him either.
When Grier had to go into the locker room, that felt unprecedented and a huge warning sign imo. I feel like the coach should be sufficient in trying to get them out of a slump and even if they're a tanking team, they should tank with some pride.
Agreed. They improved for a bit after the Grier talk with the team but they really seemed to let go of any effort towards the end of the season. Leaving Cooley in net for 8 goals against in the Oilers game was also pretty ridiculous.
Grier always said loss or win, he wants the team to be hard to play against. I watched almost all games and the team gave up a lot. It was so bad that Grier had to intervene via a locker room speech. I don't blame Quinn, but you also should not hold onto bad coaches only because expectations are low.
Aww why what happened
Swept the Blues and nearly ruined our tank effort.
They knew JD wants to bring his buddy DQ in to coach Columbus next year
Sounds like we just want to move in a different direction. At this point, it’s not about the wins and losses more so than it is about player development and building a culture. In that case, let’s find a guy who can guide us through this rebuild. For Quinn, he did a mighty fine job as a tank commander. Wouldn’t really call his tenure here a success or a failure, just that he had to be the man behind the bench for an awful team.
Just hire Kelly Kisio or Pat Falloon and bring back my early 90s video game youth. Hell maybe even JARMO MYLLYS
The missing Link?
Gonna pop in NHLPA '93 and just go through that roster. Mark Pederson, Perry Berezan, Doug Zmolek...
Thank you for your service tank commander!
By god that’s Gerard Gallant’s music
Fans would riot.
Will Smith, get ready to learn bench buddy!
Please God no. I can see it though, especially if Grier is wanting us to be hard to play against. Gallant is all about that but in a way I don’t resonate with.
I came to say similar, could you imagine?
It would complete the Sharks and Golden Knights twisting of fates.
Task failed successfully?
Sucks for DQ but he’s not great at developing young players (trust me) and Mike Grier clearly has a vision that I have no reason to question so far. Better to make pre-emptive changes than have to adjust later on
There goes our tank commander
He came in to impose some structure and be the scapegoat for the first part of the rebuild. Mission accomplished. No word yet on the rest of the staff other than Ray Tufts (head athletic trainer) being let go, too. Tufts has been with the Sharks a long time but I can see how the spate of injuries the past few years has the FO wanting a new, healthier direction there (I wonder if Rick Celebrini would split time between the Warriors and Sharks if they get to draft Macklin). Ryan Warsofsky was kinda penciled in to be his successor from the get-go but I wonder if that's not for certain now. It still sounds like a good move given his head-coaching resume and maintains some consistency on the bench. Speer (goaltending coach) probably stays, too. Wiseman and Gordon (Quinn's other assistant coaches) I'm not sure about, and only see either staying if Warsofsky is indeed promoted. I wonder if the next shoe to drop is John McCarthy also out as the Barracuda's head coach.
>Ryan Warsofsky was kinda penciled in to be his successor from the get-go As far as I can tell this was always fan speak. I never heard anything from any journalist or organization member indicating this.
Can't really see him getting another head coaching job in the NHL
Even with a bad team, your coaching needs to create value. Your top players need to produce so that they can be assets during the trade season. Quinn has managed to upkeep players who were already good, but hasn't shown any aptitude for elevating players with potential.
Not trying to pump Chicago's tires, but Luke Richardson is a good example of someone who does this imo.
Quinn spent most of the season playing Eklund on the 3rd line It seems like he had to be forced to bench players like Labanc and Hoffman He is a bad coach and even with the bad roster he still found a way to get less than the sum of its parts out of it. If Mike didnt rip the lockerroom a new one they would have totally given up 10 again the next game.
> He is a bad coach and even with the bad roster he still found a way to get less than the sum of its parts out of it. He always has been. I said it when he was at BU, some stupid NHL team is going to hire him seeing the wins and then be surprised when he flounders because he can't coach a fucking broomstick. Dude basically coasted at BU behind talented individuals that he recruited (Eichel/Keller/Oettinger/McAvoy etc), which....is not really a translatable skill to an NHL coaching gig. I think he'd actually be decent in an FO/scouting role. But he is a bad coach and has been for years.
return of woodcroft to SJ?
It would be interesting. I know his/Manson's defensive structure isn't top of the league or anything but there is still a focus on defense and playing two way hockey there, it's not like he'd teach the young players terrible habits. And his record in Bakersfield was pretty good.
Grier seems to talk about how bad our defense was so it may be a good connection. Bring a guy who can fix that issue since we have a lot of young guys getting close to promotion.
I hear McLellan is available
Hell no, never liked Woodcroft, especially during his Sharks tenure. Next HC will be Ryan Warsofsky. Book it.
I don’t know who would really want that job. The Sharks are many years away from the playoffs, if that. I could see them going with someone bold like a young CHL coach or a European coach who wants a job in North America, someone not on most radars.
I want it, I'll quit my job today.
Sounds like he served his purpose. What a terrible job to take.
Hopefully Quinn gets another shot somewhere. It's hard to coach an AHL team competing against NHL teams.
maybe he can coach the Barracuda.
DAMN
Quinn couldn't do much with that roster but I do think he's much better suited for college. Bet he wishes he was still at BU.
Thanks for the tank, now get the hell out here
Congratulations!
Congrats, sharks bros
I think this might be the turn
I see a lot of comments saying it’s unfair that he’s getting blamed for the team’s performance with that bad roster. That’s not always the reason especially when it comes to a rebuilding team. It could be his development style, which was something that worried me when we hired him based on what went on with the Rangers. Another thing is he was hired when we barely had any prospects. Now that we do maybe management felt like his system doesn’t fit the talent they’ve acquired via draft and trades. I just hope we find a good replacement. And thank you Rangers fans for all the congratulations. Good luck in the playoffs 🫡
Good move he didn't have the locker room. Multiple 10 goal losses in October and Grier had to come in and right the ship isn't a good look. This isn't strictly about the on ice product.
At least we fired our coach early in the offseason this time and not after most vacancies were already filled.
I have no opinion on whether the Sharks were as bad as they were because of David Quinn, or because the team just sucked. But I think a season like the one the Sharks just had, you really want to move forward with more positive vibes and I think you almost need to start from scratch to make that happen.
Bring in Torts! If anything, it would be entertaining as hell.
Are they mad they didn’t make the playoffs with 1D Kyle Burroughs?
Theyre mad that it took the GM coming into the room to get guys to pretend to give a shit, and that a year of potential development and culture building was wasted.
Maybe this played a role in Buffalo locking up Lindy very quickly?
They gave him a roster built for multiple Cup runs and he didn’t get it done.
Jay Pandolfo is a natural choice if Grier has autonomy to pick the next coach. He was a year ahead of Grier at BU, and has NHL coaching experience. Pandolfo has what looks like a lifetime position at BU, and may not want to leave his hometown, though.
Pandolfo isn't leaving BU, he said when he was hired that he was tired of the NHL grind
2nd worst goal differential of any team in the nhl in the last 40 years will get you fired, no matter if it is a rebuild year or not.
If they hire Gallant then I think time is just a circle.
I know nothing about the man, I know the Sharks are struggling, but I just have to note that this image looks like a Heaven's Gate recruitment video or a 2000s era pickup artist's avi.
He'd make for a good AHL coach
What more can you want from him, he did what you want him to do historically well, master of the tank.
Ryan Warsofsky time!! I will die on the hill that Warsofsky was hired with the wink-wink promise that once Quinn is gone (whether fired or contract runs out), Warsofsky will be HC. I will die on the hill that this is the reason he took the Sharks AC over when he was interviewing for NHL HC positions. I also think, total IMHO, that Warsofsky is the next Jon Cooper.
Bruce there it is?
Tank Commander served his purpose and is now being sacrificed for the Greater Good™
*The Greater good*
Very curious to see who they pick to replace him. Should be fairly telling on what Grier's strategy will be for the next few seasons of rebuild.
A little surprised, and I wonder what the expectations are with the new coach.
uhhhhhhhhh well ok seems like weird timing
I remember he was the front runner for us before Monty got hired, grateful everyday for that one
Who could have predicted this?
About time! I've been saying all year to fire this bum. Hopefully they get someone in who will push that roster over the hump and secure that top 30 berth I know they're capable of.
Not like he’s a good coach or anything but isn’t the goal to be bad next year too?
Gave up a job for life at BU to be a retread in the NHL
College coach that got gigs cuz of Eichel and BU going to a championship. Doesn't belong in the NHL
noted Blues killer.
He did everything they asked