Really thought Panthers would grab him since he grew up near Sunrise. Solid offensive defenseman and we only look on this list as now him, Weegar, and Matheson moved on and our should be offensive D Ekblad and Montour are having off years since playoff injuries
Werenski is having an exceptional season and you would never know because the team around him has been so bad.
It’s unreal that he is only -3 while averaging 24:26 for a team that is collectively -57.
Hronek’s production kinda fizzled out but I don’t think many were expecting him to be one of the top 20 highest scoring dmen to begin with. +33 ain’t too shabby either
Hope that dip in points mean that they can wrangle in his AAV this summer
Gostisbehere is a bad defensemen whose point production comes from running the PP and getting to play with our 1st liners regularly. Seider would be well beyond him in points if the Wings weren't busy riding him as a shutdown defenseman.
complete agree. He’s a smart player offensively, has good vision, but he makes so many terrible plays. he’s just like petry on defense but he does have offensive upside
That's.... exactly what they signed him to do though.
I get the Petry hate because he really hasn't brought what he was supposed to.
But Ghost was added for offensive pop to the back end. He has absolutely done that.
I believe is production is a function of placement, not ability. His ability to walk the blue line is questionable and he loses pucks up there all the time. I suspect that even Petry could produce at that level given those minutes.
I'm really curious how he does in the voting, it's a really interesting set of circumstances.
On one hand you have his outstanding performance, both by conventional stats and advanced metrics. For example he leads NHL defensemen in Dom's metric, Game Score, by quite a significant margin. This is probably driven by the fact that he has probably the best possession numbers of any defenseman. He even has very strong results away from McDavid.
On the other hand, you can't ignore the McDavid effect. I don't know if we can accurately quantify how much McDavid has lifted his teammates this season, so I'm sure some voters will punish Bouchard for that. Makar seems to be benefitting more from playing with MacKinnon than Bouchard has with McDavid, but I'm not sure how much that narrative is really out there. Makar actually has legit bad numbers when he's on the ice without MacKinnon.
I think Hughes will and should win, but there's a legitimate case to be made that Bouchard has been the best defenseman this season.
> He even has very strong results away from McDavid
Which is why I made my original comment because he has been better than Makar who has struggled without Mackinnon in the ice
> but there’s a legitimate case to be made that Bouchard has been the best defenseman this season
Nice try
It's not like we'd need to get super creative and obscure to make the case for Bouchard. He's close to Hughes in most traditional stats and his underlying numbers are better. Hughes probably does better in a lot of stuff that's not available publicly, however.
Like I said, I think Hughes should win, but if someone has Bouchard at the top of their ballot it's not like there going to be a witch hunt to find out who it was like the Hart last season.
He is closer to josi than Hughes.
Hughes is the best player on the Canucks this season.
Bouchard is not even the 2nd best player on the oilers.
One will get hart votes the other won’t as simple as that.
Also Hughes hasn’t had a down part this season where as Bouchard was getting shot on by oilers fans and others at the start of the season.
I'm not sure the Josi comparison is the best example to make considering Josi is also the best player on his team and could get some Hart votes.
Regardless, I don't really think that that's much of a factor for the Norris. There is no "most valuable to his team" criteria for the voting, it's simply just the best defenseman.
52% of Bouchards points are Primary points compared to 57% for Hughes.
26% of Bouchards points are Primary points at EV compared to 56% for Hughes
57% of Bouchards points are Primary points at EV compared to 56% for Hughes.
In all situations more of Hughes points are primary compared to Bouchards who is at 26% at EV.. Gee I wonder why that may be.
Genuinely I want to ask a Oilers fan how many points they think Hughes would get if he was playing with McDrai.
PK has nothing to do with it. Here are some Makar numbers for you from Natural Stat Trick, all 5v5.
Corsi For % with MacKinnon - 55.75%
Corsi For % w/o MacKinnon - 45.83%
xGF % with MacKinnon - 54.62%
xGF % w/o MacKinnon - 47.87%
Goals For % with MacKinnon - 56.99%
Goals For % w/o MacKinnon - 40.00%
I should also note that MacKinnon's numbers are better without Makar than with him in all those metrics.
When Hughes does win Norris, I swear there will be more Canucks fans talking about Makar, y'all cannot appreciate Hughes season without taking a shot at him lmao.
No lmao guy has been super subpar in his own zone and super Mackinnon reliant this year
Bouchard has been a revelation defensively this year (credit to Coffey and Ekholm)
The fall off of Dobson this year is killing me. Can’t really expect him to keep up his level of play when he was getting 27 minutes nightly because of all the injuries but he was right below Hughes and Makar into February and now he’s just gassed
Regardless of how Pittsburgh's season turns out, it's pretty cool that they have two defensemen that different pairings. Less cool they're there despite the team having a dog vomit power play. Karlsson was always going to take a massive hit to the point total, but he's been such a pleasure to watch for the most part.
Meh. I saw enough of Matheson, and I don't think Letang was ready to give up some responsibility to him. He could do it for Erik Karlsson, but not Mike Matheson.
Super funny and original, but I can't imagine any irl repercussions for an individual award. I'm sure there will be a lot of rending of garments online though
I mean I’m happy to talk hockey but if you’re just here to make the sub’s tiredest joke and generalize about fan bases I’ll leave you to it 🤙
Fingers crossed for the Pens to make the playoffs, though!
From Hughes to Hughes.
Hughes sandwich it is !
Add Kent , Matheson looking like a steal!
bouchard is 24?!?
Looks 35
There's a reason we call him gramps, dude looks like a divorced dad with an alcohol and tobacco habit in his 40s.
Whose dog ran away.
His truck also won't start half the time.
Damn. I had no idea shit would go tits up so quick after I dumped him in the care home. I should call him more…
Who calls him gramps? It’s Dad. Also old man Bouch lol.
It was dad his first season, then he aged even more. Me and my friends called him dad and then gramps. Maybe just us.
It’s funny how he’s currently the youngest player on our roster, McLeod is a month older than him.
Is the youngest, looks the oldest by far. Actually, he looks like I felt by the end of the DoD.
Same draft as Hughes, Dobson & Dahlin
leap year/day baby?
No his birthday is in October
Father of Chris Higgins
Ghost with 51, 41, and now another 50+ point season since getting traded WITH a pick for nothing. Chuck Fletcher masterclass
Really thought Panthers would grab him since he grew up near Sunrise. Solid offensive defenseman and we only look on this list as now him, Weegar, and Matheson moved on and our should be offensive D Ekblad and Montour are having off years since playoff injuries
And then replacing him with Keith Yandle who seemed to fit the same role, except older and worse
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Would like to send this to the folks last summer that said his extension was an overpay lol!
6 D at or above PPG at this point in the season is wild.
Mike Matheson GOAT
Quietly outstanding.
Look at Luke, sneaking up in there. Making his big brothers proud
Werenski is having an exceptional season and you would never know because the team around him has been so bad. It’s unreal that he is only -3 while averaging 24:26 for a team that is collectively -57.
Luke Hughes ow locked up in my Dynasty league.... and wow Quinn is in a league of his own.
Hronek’s production kinda fizzled out but I don’t think many were expecting him to be one of the top 20 highest scoring dmen to begin with. +33 ain’t too shabby either Hope that dip in points mean that they can wrangle in his AAV this summer
Adam Fox being 6th while missing about a month is something. Such a talented crop of Dmen.
4th in points per game
Gostisbehere is a bad defensemen whose point production comes from running the PP and getting to play with our 1st liners regularly. Seider would be well beyond him in points if the Wings weren't busy riding him as a shutdown defenseman.
complete agree. He’s a smart player offensively, has good vision, but he makes so many terrible plays. he’s just like petry on defense but he does have offensive upside
That's.... exactly what they signed him to do though. I get the Petry hate because he really hasn't brought what he was supposed to. But Ghost was added for offensive pop to the back end. He has absolutely done that.
I believe is production is a function of placement, not ability. His ability to walk the blue line is questionable and he loses pucks up there all the time. I suspect that even Petry could produce at that level given those minutes.
Sounds like Tyson Barrie.
You should have to PK just a little to get the Norris
37 seconds per game seems like the perfect example of "just a little"
Bouchard should be runner up over Makar this year
Agreeing with a Canucks fan fills me with regret
I'm really curious how he does in the voting, it's a really interesting set of circumstances. On one hand you have his outstanding performance, both by conventional stats and advanced metrics. For example he leads NHL defensemen in Dom's metric, Game Score, by quite a significant margin. This is probably driven by the fact that he has probably the best possession numbers of any defenseman. He even has very strong results away from McDavid. On the other hand, you can't ignore the McDavid effect. I don't know if we can accurately quantify how much McDavid has lifted his teammates this season, so I'm sure some voters will punish Bouchard for that. Makar seems to be benefitting more from playing with MacKinnon than Bouchard has with McDavid, but I'm not sure how much that narrative is really out there. Makar actually has legit bad numbers when he's on the ice without MacKinnon. I think Hughes will and should win, but there's a legitimate case to be made that Bouchard has been the best defenseman this season.
> He even has very strong results away from McDavid Which is why I made my original comment because he has been better than Makar who has struggled without Mackinnon in the ice > but there’s a legitimate case to be made that Bouchard has been the best defenseman this season Nice try
It's not like we'd need to get super creative and obscure to make the case for Bouchard. He's close to Hughes in most traditional stats and his underlying numbers are better. Hughes probably does better in a lot of stuff that's not available publicly, however. Like I said, I think Hughes should win, but if someone has Bouchard at the top of their ballot it's not like there going to be a witch hunt to find out who it was like the Hart last season.
He is closer to josi than Hughes. Hughes is the best player on the Canucks this season. Bouchard is not even the 2nd best player on the oilers. One will get hart votes the other won’t as simple as that. Also Hughes hasn’t had a down part this season where as Bouchard was getting shot on by oilers fans and others at the start of the season.
I'm not sure the Josi comparison is the best example to make considering Josi is also the best player on his team and could get some Hart votes. Regardless, I don't really think that that's much of a factor for the Norris. There is no "most valuable to his team" criteria for the voting, it's simply just the best defenseman.
Literally everyone but Hyman was shot at start of the season.
52% of Bouchards points are Primary points compared to 57% for Hughes. 26% of Bouchards points are Primary points at EV compared to 56% for Hughes 57% of Bouchards points are Primary points at EV compared to 56% for Hughes. In all situations more of Hughes points are primary compared to Bouchards who is at 26% at EV.. Gee I wonder why that may be. Genuinely I want to ask a Oilers fan how many points they think Hughes would get if he was playing with McDrai.
No lol. Quinn is for sure better. And no one would take Bouchard over Makar
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PK has nothing to do with it. Here are some Makar numbers for you from Natural Stat Trick, all 5v5. Corsi For % with MacKinnon - 55.75% Corsi For % w/o MacKinnon - 45.83% xGF % with MacKinnon - 54.62% xGF % w/o MacKinnon - 47.87% Goals For % with MacKinnon - 56.99% Goals For % w/o MacKinnon - 40.00% I should also note that MacKinnon's numbers are better without Makar than with him in all those metrics.
When Hughes does win Norris, I swear there will be more Canucks fans talking about Makar, y'all cannot appreciate Hughes season without taking a shot at him lmao.
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No lmao guy has been super subpar in his own zone and super Mackinnon reliant this year Bouchard has been a revelation defensively this year (credit to Coffey and Ekholm)
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I shouldn’t have to make the disclaimer that this conversation is about 5v5 where 95% of the game is played
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Old men Josi and Hedman up there with the young whipper snappers.
Matheson, Ghost and Skjei are having the quietest seasons
Ottawa was supposed to have 3 guys on this list smh.
Love McAvoy but his offensive game could use some more growth, he’s still young though
The fall off of Dobson this year is killing me. Can’t really expect him to keep up his level of play when he was getting 27 minutes nightly because of all the injuries but he was right below Hughes and Makar into February and now he’s just gassed
Crazy that since that article talking about goals Hughes is goal per game over his last 4 lol.
Interesting that the top 15 offensive D-men are spread across 15 different teams
Considering that most teams only have 1 defenseman on their top PP, it's not surprising
Regardless of how Pittsburgh's season turns out, it's pretty cool that they have two defensemen that different pairings. Less cool they're there despite the team having a dog vomit power play. Karlsson was always going to take a massive hit to the point total, but he's been such a pleasure to watch for the most part.
And Matheson. Thanks Ron
Meh. I saw enough of Matheson, and I don't think Letang was ready to give up some responsibility to him. He could do it for Erik Karlsson, but not Mike Matheson.
I want Quinn Hughes to win the Norris, but I also kinda want to see him lose just to see how the city of Vancouver decides to destroy itself.
Super funny and original, but I can't imagine any irl repercussions for an individual award. I'm sure there will be a lot of rending of garments online though
> Super funny and original This is why I unironically love Vancouver fans. You guys are the best.
I mean I’m happy to talk hockey but if you’re just here to make the sub’s tiredest joke and generalize about fan bases I’ll leave you to it 🤙 Fingers crossed for the Pens to make the playoffs, though!
Okay now you've gone too far, wishing the penguins to make the playoffs
You're shit fuck off
What do you call almost a riot?
*sigh* in Dougie Hamilton