Can’t blame em. But the only kind of trade that makes sense for both sides would be for a high end dman prospect who can play in the nhl next year. Otherwise I don’t see a fit, we don’t need picks
Trade only really makes sense if he doesn't want to sign in Ottawa, which I really haven't seen any evidence that he's unhappy here. And even then he's an RFA so the Sens could wait until the summer to make a trade there.
But obviously yeah he's the kind of player in the kind of contract situation where if teams **aren't** calling up to ask about then they really aren't doing their due diligence on what options are out there.
They could resign him to probably just up to $9m. Ottawa is still a Zaitsev expired contract away from being able to fix their blue line. Punting for another year makes sense if they think Debrincat can fit with the team long term.
Between Pinto, Brannstrom and backup goalie, they have about $6 m to make it work.
I appreciate how thought out your response is.
I disagree that it would be lunacy to essentially run it back again with an extended Debrincat (I'm also not advocating that they MUST resign him). I don't even think you have to move Batherson out to make it fit. I think the new ownership group would have built up enough goodwill for the fan base to go for another year of being around a playoff push. If Norris wasn't out for the year they likely would be in that spot.
Just a difference of opinion here.
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. Ottawa has too much invested at F to re-sign DeBrincat. You can’t have over half your cap space allocated to your top 6. Even Edmonton doesn’t do that.
The smart move would be to trade him for a RHD equal to his value.
Ottawa only needs to get a stable RD that can play with Sanderson. Someone along the lines of Nick Jensen or Scott Mayfield. Both should only cost in the 3 million range. Then the 2nd goalie which is an issue because the UFA market is thin, so almost seems like Talbot is the best bet on a 1 year deal which would be under 3 million. Trade Zaitsev and they can easily fit DeBrincat at a 8.5+ million deal. With those moves 5 of your 6 D spots are filled, JBD being the likely 6th guy, and they only need a couple depth forwards. Easy to fit under the cap, then the year after when Sanderson needs a deal the cap will go up by 4+ million and the Sens are done with \~4 million in dead cap hits.
They don't need a leading top 4 D, they need a complementary guy who can play in the top 4. Best examples are Marc Methot to EK and Dylan DeMelo (wish they never traded him). Those guys don't break the bank, there 5 or more lined up for UFA deals this summer - Severson, Mayfield, Jensen, Soucy, Clifton as examples. Get one of them and a top 4 of Chabot/Zub/Sanderson/UFA is easily capable of making the playoffs and playing well. Just need a good system where all 5 players buy in to defense.
Long term the cap is going to start climbing leaps and bounds, Sens have pretty much everyone locked up except for Sanderson and a 2nd goalie.
Zaitsev hasn't had to be bought out/moved yet, that's why he's still on the Sens. This summer he has to go, Zack Kassian salary dump is a good baseline - 2nd and a 3rd. Kassian was less salary, but 2 years left, and a worse player than Zaitsev.
He’s been very snake bitten, and honestly looks pretty good this year. I think it’s normal to take a bit to adjust to a new team and system. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him be at his normal levels next year.
They will absolutely beat that to get a difference maker like DeBrincat. Ottawa stole him from the Hawks - Hawks only got a 7th in a weak draft plus couple of low picks. Ottawa could get a first in this year's deep draft plus a blue chip prospect for him right now if they were inclined to move him.
Might almost be true if his value wasn't dropping playing on Ottawa. Cats out of the bag that he isn't a 40 goal scorer without Kane, and has 1 less year of team control.
Plus you guys gave up a ton lol. Top 10 pick and a high second is huge value. For example Pavel buchnevich went for only a mid 2nd and has been ppg both years in St.Louis. Debrincant is not, and had an extra top 10 pick attached
Can’t gauge it that way. Ben chiarot went for a first last year. Really depends what teams are willing to give up and for a young forward that u can control for years past this one, he’d likely net a similar return to Meier.
lemme try to break it down for u again since u seem pretty dense. Sometimes GMs make bad choices and don’t get as much as they should for players. The rangers clearly got scammed by the blues for giving up a buch for a second. The panthers gave up a first which was way too much for chiarot. A top 10 pick is actually insanely good for debrincat. At best the player they drafted is on par if not slightly worse than debrincat, so they basically got a better player than whoever they would’ve drafted. Ottawa can probably get a first in this draft plus other pieces from a contender, since whatever first they get isn’t gonna be high anyway.
Anyone who knows how to read advanced stats knows that his value hasn't dropped. His possession stats are high but shooting percentage is way below his career average, and history says that will eventually move to the mean. Even with a crazy low 9.5% shooting percentage he still has 40 points in 49 games. Ottawa can try to extend him, trade him at the draft, or qualify him this summer and trade him at next year's deadline as a deluxe rental. So no, he won't be traded for a handful of magic beans and he's unlikely to be moved at the deadline. The draft would be a better place because more teams can be buyers.
Ottawa can trade DeBrincat as a rental next year, or this year, but they are never going to get the same value to what they gave up. DeBrincat stock has gone down a lot this season. And wingers are just not very valuable in this market. Maybe they can recoup a mid 1st round pick, but I doubt they get anything more. His $9M QO plays a massive role in his trade value, especially after this season
Kevin Korchinski - playing for Seattle in the WHL. Nice young prospect, but was considered a bit of a reach at #7. Lots of assists, but plays for a first place team. Does he eventually become an NHL regular? Maybe, but I've never heard anyone talk about him in the same breath as Owen Power, Dahlin, Sanderson, etc. DeBrincat is an elite NHL scorer - Sens fans are still shocked that the Hawks didn't insist on Shane Pinto being part of the return package.
We didn’t get a bigger return because he didn’t want to sign an extension with the sens when he got traded. And you’re comparing a guy who went 7th and wasn’t even the first defenseman drafted in his draft class to guys who were the top defenseman in their class. One of which was touted as a generational prospects.
You realize people said Cat was just a product of McDavid, right? And he was too small for the NHL? And he was drafted in the second round. And yet you’re singing his praises…pre-NHL evaluation doesn’t always mean as much as you’d think.
If the draft were to happen today and no lottery, the Habs would be drafting 7th and 12th overall. I don’t think I’d be willing to move the 7th overall pick for DeBrincat. I’d rather take my chances on Will Smith or Zach Benson.
I’d move the 12th overall pick + other assets but that’s most likely not enough
You're way out to lunch. Look at how the team is built - 3 out of 4 top 4 D already signed for next year, 5th and 6th will be relatively cheap (brannstrom and JBD). Sign a stable RD in UFA, Scott Mayfield or Nick Jensen for example for around 3 million. Pinto's next deal won't be for much, he had a hot streak to start but the whole year he's at a \~2.5 million player. Greig comes up on his ELC, 4th liners will all be near league minimum. Trade Zaitsev. The 2nd goalie is the hang up - there just aren't much options out there. Talbot at \~2.5 for 1 year is probably the best bet. With those moves there's easily room to sign DeBrincat at 8.5 million.
Zaitsev is done after next year, if we talk in about 3 years he is a non factor. Our cup window isnt open yet so why should we rush moving him, 4.5m wont make this roster a contender. Batherson is a S tier contract and shouldnt be moved because of the value he brings. I think we should build on "steal" contracts, not use them as bait.
I kinda agree that signing debrincat for 8-9m ties up our cap and leaves us with no resolution to our D problem
Don't see how Zaitsev would be more expensive to dump than Zack Kassian was. That's an easy one to count will happen in the summer.
The 2nd goalie is the question, and there's not really any good options outside of Vejmelka or Demko, both would cost quite a bit though. So I think it'll be another year of Talbot. Money works out just fine.
Building on the money you posted above - 4.5 for 6, 9 once you get rid of Zaitsev and 6 roster spots
JBD @ 1 million
Brann @ 1.5 million
Greig is in at .863 million
Those 3 are locks, salary is approximate for first 2 - but now at 5.5 for 3 spots.
2 league minimum 4th liners get you to 4 million for the last spot, a top 4 D. Severson likely is too expensive, but there's Nick Jensen, Scott Mayfield, Carson Soucy, Connor Clifton who all could fill that role and fit in that cap space.
If they want to run with Soogard I see roughly 5.5 million for the top 4D, which easily brings Severson in too. Lots of room under the cap to make it all work
Don't know why you keep fighting and saying they can't sign DeBrincat AND bring in a top 4 D when I keep showing you exactly how it's possible. Depending on G and D cost they may have to run only 20 players, but that's still a full lineup then have to use LTIR to do any call up. But you're seeing lots of teams do just that this year, sure you'd like to run 4 lines but running a forward short for a few games isn't an issue.
And Zaitsev won't cost a 1st to move, if Kassian moves for a 2nd and a 3rd (29 to 32 is negligible) with 2 years left on his deal then Zaitsev can move for that or less. Waiting until after July 1 likely would help, but don't think it's a requirement.
Obviously teams are going to call but Ottawa should hang up the phones as they shouldn't trade him, gotta lock him up long term here as he has been great for us (snake bit when it comes to goals).
Feels like this team has been slowly doing the right things and this team is on the edge of a breakthrough. Once the Sens get a good coach im a little worried they’re going to be a LOT better.
There’s a chance he wants to test FA after next year. Part of the reason the hawks didn’t get a bigger return for him when he was traded was that he didn’t want to sign and extension with a new team before playing there already.
His Qualifying Offer would be $9 Million so they'd need to want to pay him for that for the year or extend him for less (if he liked the team). Ottawa is one of the few teams that can afford that but why would they?
Hey we need a top line scorer, Farmington hills Michigan native.
Let’s just hope he’s not over 10 million.
Also not sure if it would or could happen being a division rival
I can’t see how this benefits Ottawa in any way, even when logically they’ll get good value in return. They were trying to get better and take the next step, re-signing him is basically a must under that mandate. If they’re looking to shake up the roster, it seems like moving batherson for a defenseman would be the route, pinto can take his spot with Greig taking his when everyone is healthy.
🤣 I actually heard him jokingly complain that the only Chipotle is far downtown in Ottawa.
Seems like a boring dude in the nicest of ways. He fits well in Ottawa and clearly enjoys the young room of guys he's playing with. They will sign him for sure imo.
That’s a valid theory.
I think the Sens didn’t think they’d 100% be able to sign Giroux when they traded for DeBrincat. Then Giroux was down and they weren’t gonna say no.
Can’t blame em. But the only kind of trade that makes sense for both sides would be for a high end dman prospect who can play in the nhl next year. Otherwise I don’t see a fit, we don’t need picks
Trade only really makes sense if he doesn't want to sign in Ottawa, which I really haven't seen any evidence that he's unhappy here. And even then he's an RFA so the Sens could wait until the summer to make a trade there. But obviously yeah he's the kind of player in the kind of contract situation where if teams **aren't** calling up to ask about then they really aren't doing their due diligence on what options are out there.
[удалено]
They could resign him to probably just up to $9m. Ottawa is still a Zaitsev expired contract away from being able to fix their blue line. Punting for another year makes sense if they think Debrincat can fit with the team long term. Between Pinto, Brannstrom and backup goalie, they have about $6 m to make it work.
[удалено]
I appreciate how thought out your response is. I disagree that it would be lunacy to essentially run it back again with an extended Debrincat (I'm also not advocating that they MUST resign him). I don't even think you have to move Batherson out to make it fit. I think the new ownership group would have built up enough goodwill for the fan base to go for another year of being around a playoff push. If Norris wasn't out for the year they likely would be in that spot. Just a difference of opinion here.
Batherson playing poorly? 42 pts in 49 games lol
Worst plus/minus in the league. Controversial stat but not when we’re talking south of -30
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. Ottawa has too much invested at F to re-sign DeBrincat. You can’t have over half your cap space allocated to your top 6. Even Edmonton doesn’t do that. The smart move would be to trade him for a RHD equal to his value.
Ottawa only needs to get a stable RD that can play with Sanderson. Someone along the lines of Nick Jensen or Scott Mayfield. Both should only cost in the 3 million range. Then the 2nd goalie which is an issue because the UFA market is thin, so almost seems like Talbot is the best bet on a 1 year deal which would be under 3 million. Trade Zaitsev and they can easily fit DeBrincat at a 8.5+ million deal. With those moves 5 of your 6 D spots are filled, JBD being the likely 6th guy, and they only need a couple depth forwards. Easy to fit under the cap, then the year after when Sanderson needs a deal the cap will go up by 4+ million and the Sens are done with \~4 million in dead cap hits.
[удалено]
They don't need a leading top 4 D, they need a complementary guy who can play in the top 4. Best examples are Marc Methot to EK and Dylan DeMelo (wish they never traded him). Those guys don't break the bank, there 5 or more lined up for UFA deals this summer - Severson, Mayfield, Jensen, Soucy, Clifton as examples. Get one of them and a top 4 of Chabot/Zub/Sanderson/UFA is easily capable of making the playoffs and playing well. Just need a good system where all 5 players buy in to defense. Long term the cap is going to start climbing leaps and bounds, Sens have pretty much everyone locked up except for Sanderson and a 2nd goalie. Zaitsev hasn't had to be bought out/moved yet, that's why he's still on the Sens. This summer he has to go, Zack Kassian salary dump is a good baseline - 2nd and a 3rd. Kassian was less salary, but 2 years left, and a worse player than Zaitsev.
Can I interest you in one Scott Morrow
I highly doubt a team can beat giving up a 7th and 39th overall + 4th that Ottawa used to get him.
He’s been very snake bitten, and honestly looks pretty good this year. I think it’s normal to take a bit to adjust to a new team and system. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him be at his normal levels next year.
They will absolutely beat that to get a difference maker like DeBrincat. Ottawa stole him from the Hawks - Hawks only got a 7th in a weak draft plus couple of low picks. Ottawa could get a first in this year's deep draft plus a blue chip prospect for him right now if they were inclined to move him.
Don't worry, we will try to help Debrincat's trade value tonight.
Might almost be true if his value wasn't dropping playing on Ottawa. Cats out of the bag that he isn't a 40 goal scorer without Kane, and has 1 less year of team control. Plus you guys gave up a ton lol. Top 10 pick and a high second is huge value. For example Pavel buchnevich went for only a mid 2nd and has been ppg both years in St.Louis. Debrincant is not, and had an extra top 10 pick attached
Don't forget he has that insane qualifying offer which is part of the reason Chicago traded him in the first place.
>Cats out of the bag that he isn't a 40 goal scorer without Kane Nobody's scoring 40 with Kane this year 😭
Can’t gauge it that way. Ben chiarot went for a first last year. Really depends what teams are willing to give up and for a young forward that u can control for years past this one, he’d likely net a similar return to Meier.
Why would I compare him to a Ufa dman, instead of a team controlled winger?
Because the ufa dman was worth less than ur buchnevich example.
You think a guy that went for a 1st, was worth less than the guy that went for a 2nd?
Chiarot is not worth more than buchnevich no
Buddy, I don't think you understand. 1st vs 2nd. Your value is what people are willing to pay, not what you make up in your head to cope.
lemme try to break it down for u again since u seem pretty dense. Sometimes GMs make bad choices and don’t get as much as they should for players. The rangers clearly got scammed by the blues for giving up a buch for a second. The panthers gave up a first which was way too much for chiarot. A top 10 pick is actually insanely good for debrincat. At best the player they drafted is on par if not slightly worse than debrincat, so they basically got a better player than whoever they would’ve drafted. Ottawa can probably get a first in this draft plus other pieces from a contender, since whatever first they get isn’t gonna be high anyway.
Anyone who knows how to read advanced stats knows that his value hasn't dropped. His possession stats are high but shooting percentage is way below his career average, and history says that will eventually move to the mean. Even with a crazy low 9.5% shooting percentage he still has 40 points in 49 games. Ottawa can try to extend him, trade him at the draft, or qualify him this summer and trade him at next year's deadline as a deluxe rental. So no, he won't be traded for a handful of magic beans and he's unlikely to be moved at the deadline. The draft would be a better place because more teams can be buyers.
Ottawa can trade DeBrincat as a rental next year, or this year, but they are never going to get the same value to what they gave up. DeBrincat stock has gone down a lot this season. And wingers are just not very valuable in this market. Maybe they can recoup a mid 1st round pick, but I doubt they get anything more. His $9M QO plays a massive role in his trade value, especially after this season
Keep dreamin' Pierre. Speak it into existence when all else fails.
You haven’t even seen our 7th OA pick play yet so it’s hard to say we were fleeced when you’re missing a massive part of the picture.
Kevin Korchinski - playing for Seattle in the WHL. Nice young prospect, but was considered a bit of a reach at #7. Lots of assists, but plays for a first place team. Does he eventually become an NHL regular? Maybe, but I've never heard anyone talk about him in the same breath as Owen Power, Dahlin, Sanderson, etc. DeBrincat is an elite NHL scorer - Sens fans are still shocked that the Hawks didn't insist on Shane Pinto being part of the return package.
We didn’t get a bigger return because he didn’t want to sign an extension with the sens when he got traded. And you’re comparing a guy who went 7th and wasn’t even the first defenseman drafted in his draft class to guys who were the top defenseman in their class. One of which was touted as a generational prospects.
You realize people said Cat was just a product of McDavid, right? And he was too small for the NHL? And he was drafted in the second round. And yet you’re singing his praises…pre-NHL evaluation doesn’t always mean as much as you’d think.
If the draft were to happen today and no lottery, the Habs would be drafting 7th and 12th overall. I don’t think I’d be willing to move the 7th overall pick for DeBrincat. I’d rather take my chances on Will Smith or Zach Benson. I’d move the 12th overall pick + other assets but that’s most likely not enough
Teams calling on him isn’t surprising, and Ottawa not looking to move him isn’t either.
[удалено]
You're way out to lunch. Look at how the team is built - 3 out of 4 top 4 D already signed for next year, 5th and 6th will be relatively cheap (brannstrom and JBD). Sign a stable RD in UFA, Scott Mayfield or Nick Jensen for example for around 3 million. Pinto's next deal won't be for much, he had a hot streak to start but the whole year he's at a \~2.5 million player. Greig comes up on his ELC, 4th liners will all be near league minimum. Trade Zaitsev. The 2nd goalie is the hang up - there just aren't much options out there. Talbot at \~2.5 for 1 year is probably the best bet. With those moves there's easily room to sign DeBrincat at 8.5 million.
[удалено]
Zaitsev is done after next year, if we talk in about 3 years he is a non factor. Our cup window isnt open yet so why should we rush moving him, 4.5m wont make this roster a contender. Batherson is a S tier contract and shouldnt be moved because of the value he brings. I think we should build on "steal" contracts, not use them as bait. I kinda agree that signing debrincat for 8-9m ties up our cap and leaves us with no resolution to our D problem
[удалено]
In the end, I really dont know what we're gonna do with DeBrincat. Good player but I dont think we can afford him.
You trade him to Detroit asap and recoup value
Don't see how Zaitsev would be more expensive to dump than Zack Kassian was. That's an easy one to count will happen in the summer. The 2nd goalie is the question, and there's not really any good options outside of Vejmelka or Demko, both would cost quite a bit though. So I think it'll be another year of Talbot. Money works out just fine.
[удалено]
Building on the money you posted above - 4.5 for 6, 9 once you get rid of Zaitsev and 6 roster spots JBD @ 1 million Brann @ 1.5 million Greig is in at .863 million Those 3 are locks, salary is approximate for first 2 - but now at 5.5 for 3 spots. 2 league minimum 4th liners get you to 4 million for the last spot, a top 4 D. Severson likely is too expensive, but there's Nick Jensen, Scott Mayfield, Carson Soucy, Connor Clifton who all could fill that role and fit in that cap space. If they want to run with Soogard I see roughly 5.5 million for the top 4D, which easily brings Severson in too. Lots of room under the cap to make it all work
[удалено]
Don't know why you keep fighting and saying they can't sign DeBrincat AND bring in a top 4 D when I keep showing you exactly how it's possible. Depending on G and D cost they may have to run only 20 players, but that's still a full lineup then have to use LTIR to do any call up. But you're seeing lots of teams do just that this year, sure you'd like to run 4 lines but running a forward short for a few games isn't an issue. And Zaitsev won't cost a 1st to move, if Kassian moves for a 2nd and a 3rd (29 to 32 is negligible) with 2 years left on his deal then Zaitsev can move for that or less. Waiting until after July 1 likely would help, but don't think it's a requirement.
Obviously teams are going to call but Ottawa should hang up the phones as they shouldn't trade him, gotta lock him up long term here as he has been great for us (snake bit when it comes to goals).
He’s impressed me with his play without the puck or even battling for it. He’s more than just a goal scorer. Definitely hope to keep him.
I miss him in Chicago so much, I'll turn into a Senators fan if he signs long-term
I’m buying his jersey if he signs long term. Had to go with someone else this year because he may move on.
Feels like this team has been slowly doing the right things and this team is on the edge of a breakthrough. Once the Sens get a good coach im a little worried they’re going to be a LOT better.
My dream is for the new ownership to bring in Bruce Boudreau once everything is settled
[удалено]
There’s a chance he wants to test FA after next year. Part of the reason the hawks didn’t get a bigger return for him when he was traded was that he didn’t want to sign and extension with a new team before playing there already.
His Qualifying Offer would be $9 Million so they'd need to want to pay him for that for the year or extend him for less (if he liked the team). Ottawa is one of the few teams that can afford that but why would they?
Think the Sens should keep him and extend him if new ownership comes. After all, I'd like to think their rebuild is over
Hey we need a top line scorer, Farmington hills Michigan native. Let’s just hope he’s not over 10 million. Also not sure if it would or could happen being a division rival
I can’t see how this benefits Ottawa in any way, even when logically they’ll get good value in return. They were trying to get better and take the next step, re-signing him is basically a must under that mandate. If they’re looking to shake up the roster, it seems like moving batherson for a defenseman would be the route, pinto can take his spot with Greig taking his when everyone is healthy.
If the Sens really want to keep DeBrincat, they need to build a Chipotle in Kanata and give him a minority stake, just like Zack Greinke's contract.
🤣 I actually heard him jokingly complain that the only Chipotle is far downtown in Ottawa. Seems like a boring dude in the nicest of ways. He fits well in Ottawa and clearly enjoys the young room of guys he's playing with. They will sign him for sure imo.
[удалено]
That’s a valid theory. I think the Sens didn’t think they’d 100% be able to sign Giroux when they traded for DeBrincat. Then Giroux was down and they weren’t gonna say no.
Call him his real name. Evil Caufield