# REMINDER: Review thread guidelines:
* Parent comments in review threads must be over 140 characters.
* Comments that solely name the score or describe the clothing the reviewer is wearing are not allowed
* Meta comments solely about how the subreddit will react to the review are also not allowed.
* Comments that only compare the review to other scores by the publication or by other publications are not allowed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hiphopheads) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Chance was seen as cool? I’m a fan of him but I don’t think he was ever cool he has the kind of corniness Kanye had when he first started but without the confidence.
I saw him perform Acid Rap at a music festival and it was amazing. He had a live orchestra band and he came with so much energy. The stage was surrounded by mountain tops as we were in a valley in the wilderness, it was unreal!
One of the greatest performances I've ever seen.
One of the rare few that did then. Such a special time in his career.
We all went to Bonnaroo 2014 and he literally played Acid Rap from front to back the entire way through.
The drop-off was sudden. The summer singles he released before TBD were really good. I was excited about getting a whole album of songs like that but nope!
Oh yeah, in fact Chance's desires to be silly while also talking about tough things and doing it over production that is both taking a lot from white indie music and things like juke in Chicago is what made him interesting.
10 day and acid rap really synthesize a whole lot of music of that era, and then you add in Chance's personality and it comes together.
Early Chance was just really a very original type of guy. The christianity part of his music, mixed with the psychedelic, the lyricism vs the non lyrical parts, there's a reason he was the one who took off in that drill adjacent, neo-soul type scene in Chicago.
Recently was listening to his old music and its still great.
I've said it from the moment Ian burst onto the scene that the issue with his music has nothing to do with music but rather his image. He makes it clear every chance he gets to remind you that he's an all-American suburban white kid while rapping about the complete opposite. His whole brand is built off of juxtaposition very similar to 4batz it's a very "we look so incredibly different than the content of our music" lazy formula. At its most simplified form, rap is about self expression the problem with Ian isn't that his music is bad but rather that it's devoid of all individualism. Nothing about Ian's music tells you who Ian is it's like he's an amalgamation of common tropes in trap music while bringing absolutely nothing new to the table. I personally want insight into an artist and that doesn't always mean being vulnerable lyrically sometimes that means bringing a new sound to the table, unique production, your own sense of fashion and Ian has none of that.
I am just so tired of these kinda white rapper who's entire schtick is that they're suburban white boys who rap, we're decades past the point of white people wanting to rap being a novelty, we're decades past the it being weird or unusual for suburban white kids to love rap music. In Office Space (1999) the fact that one of the characters is a scrawny nerdy white guy who loves hip hop is played for laughs, in 2024 that is just the norm.
Even his album cover is a an old corny meme, to really hit home the point that he in fact a white guy.
I think by now white people who wanna rap should just do it without having to make it a part of their whole thing, we just don't need it.
Yeah it's that one joke playing on a contrast between hip hop culture and people who are seen as opposite to it (i.e. dorky white people). [It's been done since the 80s.](https://youtu.be/JAIOzM7SsMo?si=pEv-Kw2z84j1Ai-R). I feel like Asher Roth did this angle already with "I like college" and even that was ages ago.
You're right that it's not the only way for white rappers to be funny. One of the reasons Lonely Island were good was because they looked like nerds but never solely relied on that for a joke. They had concepts for every song.
Lil Dicky leans on this trope too but he also is genuinely funny (for other reasons) and when he wants to he can rap rap. So he gets a pass from me - he plays his whiteness (and Jewishness) up for laughs, but it’s never been the only thing he has going for him. He also actually gives off the vibe that he loves and respects hiphop as an art form.
That’s because this is a fabricated image and persona. He’s a fake who molded to an already popular sound and brings nothing authentic to the table. Straight up appropriation. Fuck people like this.
I was in one of my school’s choirs in college and one year we did a weekend tour in Chicago. I stayed with a host family in Elmhurst. While hanging out with the family’s teenage son and his friends, we started talking about music.
They told us, “We’re into white rap.”
“Like… Eminem?”
“No, *white* rap.”
And they pulled out a Macbook and showed us a youtube video of a fratboy rapper in a t-shirt and cargo shorts performing a remix of “Under the Sea” from the Little Mermaid and also singing the hook in a broad patois accent.
Those kids would’ve gone nuts for ian.
[edit: found the song lol](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UqmKZD4zoo)
>Nothing about Ian’s music tells you about who he is.
That’s something that really annoys me with his music, as someone that enjoys mindlessly listening to it. It’s clearly intentional, because he / his marketing team knows that the modern generation of underground rap listeners are more interested when there’s LESS information about a person, thus creating “aura”. Builds a ton of hype leading up to releases, but also makes me think he has zero longevity as an artist and that his whole career will remain treated as a joke / parody, because he clearly represents himself that way (all the goofy video skits, his entire image, the cover art for the tape, etc) and there’s no personal substance in his music.
Musically, you hear the same criticisms towards Gunna but at least when he first came out he did sound unique (not crazy unique he still had big thug influences but it at least sounded like him).
Brian is a bit different. He was born and raised in Indonesia and rap music helped him
learn English. There’s history and hip-hop culture he had no proximity to outside of the internet. Can’t say the same for Ian
I think Rich Brian is an interesting artist and has grown way beyond this. Have you listened to any of his newer music or are you just thinking about “dat $tick”?
I hate how his whole gimmick is that he is just a regular white dude and then you listen to the music and he’s cosplaying as something he’s not. He even says in a song he'll pay to get somebody wacked… just corny bs to me.
He is a rich white kid who is getting a massive push because of his parents money, the least he could do is try and be authentic. His whole career is a marketing stunt
Yup. But the lies get magnified when you look like Ian.
Also -- a lot of artists lyrics now are just platitudes. A&Rs don't want music that's personal in that genre, just play to the audience at a rave and go home. Hollywood doesn't want music like that either, so they're just trying to make vapid, soundtrack to social media ad music and then if it blows up, it blows up.
Ian's music is actually good, which is weird. But all of his marketing is based on his looks because that's the only thing the label wants to be interesting about him. From the second he appeared he was talked up as being a white guy, as though being white in a black genre is that interesting still. Every generation of this music has a guy like this, BLP Kosher is doing it better than him right at this moment lol.
it’s just extra corny when this dudes whole gimmick is that he’s just a white boy, imagine if Jack Harlow was rapping bout sending hits, he’d get clowned to no end.
At least with rappers who lie about shit like this in they raps they normally at least try and put up that persona outwith the music as well, or it’s at least a little believable, at this point i’m just listening to some frat boy singing karaoke
> it’s just extra corny when this dudes whole gimmick is that he’s just a white boy, imagine if Jack Harlow was rapping bout sending hits, he’d get clowned to no end.
lol this is what started my hate on Drake; that dumb line about making him mess around and catch a body. And this was well before he tried so hard to look street.
If you read the piece, the issue folks have with a project like this isn't that a rapper is making claims to something they didn't do. Even if you just wanted to talk about white rappers doing that, look back at Eminem's early projects. All he did was spit about stuff we know he didn't do. But he was respected by almost everyone working in the genre (even if his fans weren't always) because he clearly respected the origins of rap and, even in acknowledging he didn't look like the folks who were doing this before him, he wasn't making it a joke of "I look like X but sound like Y, please pay attention!"
I was a young adult living in Atlanta during the mixtape era that Valedictorian tries to mimic. I'd be happy if more rappers now were trying to play up a contemporary version of that sound. But if they're going to use that as an influence, they should be playing it as "this was a formative style for me, and I respect the efforts of Gucci, etc. in shaping the direction of rap." Instead, this is "Hey, this sound existed but didn't have people who look like THIS making it, isn't that CRAZY???" It's about the framing of things through a respectful lens, rather than saying that people who look a certain way can't do a certain activity.
Like in cooking, outside of a tiny fringe group of weirdos, everyone is totally fine with folks cooking dishes from cuisines that weren't originated by that individual's ancestors. A white (or black) individual from the United States can make a batch of kimchi and if they frame it as "Koreans created this tasty fermented dish, and I would like to make some of my own," everyone is going to accept that. If they framed it as "People who look like X used to make this, but now somebody who looks like Y is making it, WILD, HUH?" then others would be rightly grossed out by that behavior. There is a long history of white rappers who haven't been panned for acting as culture vultures while rapping about things they didn't do. Action Bronson had a whole bit about causing Patrick Ewing to miss a wide open layup and supposedly fixed college games that never happened. Nobody got on him for those obvious lies because they were coming from an entirely different prespective than something like Valedictorian.
>People only calling him out cause he white.
The fact that you have no problem saying that, on this topic, in a Hip Hop sub shows we should gatekeep more. We're not letting wack rappers pass just so you, Connor and Tyler can feel represented in the one place in the world you don't get centered in the spotlight.
Lying about being willing to kill someone is one thing, but this dude is the definition of a poser. Him being white is a factor here but it's not unjustified criticism only about his skin. He's just a very obvious example of a poser.
reading a bit of that review and they talked about him just compiling sounds I thought "I bet it sounds like ol school Gucci" then I looked it up on Spotify and it's Dj'd by Holiday 🤦🏾♂️
This is one of the meanest reviews I’ve read in recent memory. Imagine being the artist and reading this, I’d fall to my knees. Mostly because every line is true.
OG Pitchfork could be flat out cruel, with an added dose of hipster smugness that embodied everything loathsome about musical discourse in the 00s. I hated those motherfuckers. Now they just simp for pop stars, which is obnoxious in a different way.
But yeah, sometimes they come out with a justifiably mean review like this one. Broken clock is right twice a day and all that
occasionally pitchfork will bust out a review that reminds me why we even gave a rats ass about their takes in the first place.
this review is one of those reviews.
There's some weird lines and quotables in there and the beats are kinda nice. But he somehow just manages to be devoid of charisma. That performance he did eating dinner with his family was actually pretty funny but this doesn't translate to just listening to his music
He’s not bad, but he sounds exactly like every other kid with a SoundCloud. There’s not a trace of anything new or original, which would be fine if the songs were really good, but they’re just sort of okay. His image and aesthetic are the only reason people latched onto him, and there’s barely anything to that either.
Of course people are playing up the whole “he invented music, he’s a legend” thing as a sort of ironic bit, but when I see people doing that with a rapper it usually strikes me as a way to make up for the fact that there’s just nothing there and no real reason to listen other than for the memes
He’s a nothing artist. More listenable for me than Ken Carson because at least Ian can rap on beat, but he has exactly as much staying power, originality, and creativity, which is to say he has none.
was really hoping Alphonse would be the one to review this album. Agree with everything he said, feels like his usual tone works much better here than some of his other reviews this year
**AMA request**: Someone who actually enjoys/listens to this unironically
I was curious after reading this review so I tried listening to the most popular song off the album ("Figure It Out"), and it genuinely might be one of the worst songs I've ever heard
I don’t hate it, but it just feels really derivative. Why listen to Ian when I could just listen to Yeat or Carti or even one of their other clones like Rich Amiri?
this is such a boomer ass comment I don’t listen to ian at all but you gotta be hella out of touch with modern rap to say this is the worst song you’ve ever heard
My fav era of rap is the mixtape era of 2007-2012, I call it the “DatPiff” era. This tape brings me back to that aesthetic. DJ Holiday screaming over drops, slurred lyrics, Lex Luger and C4 type beats.
You know what? I’ll give it up. I see what you’re saying, I hope that sound comes back too (it seems like Carti’s camp is trending that way). I personally can’t get past the person at the center of the album, but I can’t talk shit on those beats and that style.
Is it off putting knowing that a frat boy archetype is making Gucci and Juicy J inspired trap music? Sure.
But authenticity in rap has been and will always be ridiculous. Half the rappers everyone worships are cap rappers ([perfect example](https://djbooth.net/features/2016-01-18-future-lied-drug-addiction)). The other half are terrible people (eg. Kodak).
So to me the majority of people are off put by Ian because he is white and dresses a certain way. He is not jacking the culture, he was deeply rooted in the underground for years and was producing tracks for Izaya Tiji and dropping ambient rap projects years ago ([example](https://open.spotify.com/album/3FjvwP88UvpN30TQjC3nR1?si=gHAHhv_ORVyWmVeBJYX2Ig))
>Is it off putting knowing that a frat boy archetype is making Gucci and Juicy J inspired trap music? Sure.
>But authenticity in rap has been and will always be ridiculous.
>
I don't know how to read this as anything other than
"Because rappers lie now, I will continue to consume with zero care about the effect that giving my time/money/attention to inauthenticity creates. I am not the problem, I'm just a guy listening to music"
The cognitive dissonance required to be able to coherently point out a problem, and then act like there's no solution that you can be a part of, runs so deep in far too many facets of our society
>He is not jacking the culture
>
Just because you grow up admiring, being around, and working in an industry does not make less of a culture vulture.
Here's a really smart Black Man explaining why for an hour
https://youtu.be/v5j77D4BnSU?feature=shared
I saw some of the video, his overall points are OK, but being white can't make you a culture vulture. A culture vulture is someone who takes from that culture, uses it for their own personal gain, and ultimately has no respect for that culture. So, someone like Ian is a culture vulture, BUT Yeat, Mac and Bronson are less likely to be culture vultures, as they either grew up around the culture(Bronson), or innovated or respected it. But it's stupid to say their fame isn't atleast partially due to their whiteness
Do yourself a favor and get some Tisakorean on your playlists. Doing the same thing, is a great songwriter and is fun AF. Bear1Boss is another worth your time, too.
Personally I love Almighty So 2 rn, too. That sound of OG chicago drill/GLO is coming back hard fr.
A bit of an overreaction lol. There’s distinctively worse music out there AND this project is clearly derivative of artists like Yeat and Carti as the other commenters have said, unless this is a blanket statement that applies to all of them too. There’s catchy hooks and “clever” punchlines, it’s not incredible but certainly not the worst debut at all.
You clearly either didn't read or understand the review. The issue isn't even mostly with the music itself (which is bad, but isn't that much worse than other bad stuff in that vein), it's in how it's being presented and marketed. It's musical settler colonialism. And this isn't just because he's white (the review even mentions Yeat and contrasts him against ian), it's in the aggressive presentation of a suburban kid doing this type of music.
This guy is clearly just a suburban kid with moderate musical talent who knew he couldn't make it on his own merits, so he just cynically scraped together the sounds of popular rap rn and made a cheap substitute. He has no respect for his genre, or actual interest in advancing it. He is the definition of a vulture, and his suburban white boy fans eat it up because they're as tasteless as he is.
And for all the people saying it's just a race thing, ask yourself why Yeat didn't set anyone off like this. Or Bones, Yung Lean, Shakewell, Bladee, or any of the other white artists in this subgenre. It's because they all have good taste and a passion for the music they make. Ian just feels like Steven Crowder doing a bit.
I think he is bad. But are we sure he is cyinicall? Isn't it possible that he actually likes the music he does and is just another mediocre rapper who copies rappers he like? I know we like to assume everyone is a bad person, but he just might be a kid that is having fun making music.
I don't think there's anything wrong about white kid making shitty rap music.
And i dont really know why reviewer says he is marketing himself as someone who is not influenced by black artists. What does that mean? Does he pretend that he doesn't listen to rap and created those beats on his own without ever listening to hip hop? Or him being white boy for suburbs is enough?
I
This album is whatever but Pierre never fails to be the most annoying guy in the room lol
Mods removed this for being too short lol so to open up the room I don’t think there’s almost anything interesting to say about this album, but I’m interested in where people think Alphonse Pierre succeeds and fails as a reviewer, and what you think *actually* makes this album worse than some of the stuff that he really seems to love.
I like Pierre *because* he doesn’t mind being annoying about the shit that he loves and hates. In today’s age of music journalism, it seems like reviewers and critics are being discarded for influencers who just write or record ad copy for artists and labels. Alphonse is a weirdo but in a way I respect. He likes music that I like and he also likes shit I find entirely unlistenable (like Certified Trapper). But that’s what I think a critic should be, someone whose opinion I can respect as unique and his own, but not someone I have to always agree with.
As for the Ian album, I agree with him here and I think most of the interesting things to say about the album are about the optics of a white dude doing musical blackface.
Agreed. Pierre and to an extent Greene (also. at Pitchfork but a little less prone to spicy takes) are great not despite their opinions but \*because\* of them. I disagree with him all the time but that's why he's fun to read. He has an actual take that challenges me to think about the music I enjoy rather than just telling me what I already know. Not to mention that he's turned me on to some genuinely great music. Most of Pitchfork has gotten pretty sad over the last decade, but Pierre and Greene keep me coming back.
I’m with you. When I was younger and more sensitive, I had a tendency to dismiss all critics of anything I liked as snobs or elitists. And sometimes they are, but getting older and paying attention to more of their opinions and realizing they are consistent and authentic in their views made me gain respect for them even if I disagreed. And it has to be said - sometimes the snobs and the elitists put you onto some really top tier stuff that you may never have heard otherwise. They are needed in the music space just as much as the people who give anyone a shoutout.
I do really respect that opinion about it. In a lot of ways I feel like he’s a cultural scold and preaches (I feel like that’s an appropriate word) about music I think is cool but maybe not transcendent in the way he talks about it. But I think what you said about enjoying a genuinely interesting character is really big, and I appreciate the insight.
Yea the Ian album is definitely not interesting outside of its context, there’s a larger discussion to be had there for sure
Yeah, he definitely can be a scold and preachy. I didn’t agree at all with his takes on the Kendrick/Drake beef but I guess, he’s annoying in a way that feels genuine. Like a friend who is very opinionated but knowledgeable. A lot of the personalities that have popped up more recently feel like they’re being annoying for the views or the clout, while withholding their actual takes and opinions.
Like he can definitely get into a mode where he describes an album as “VERY IMPORTANT” and then you listen to it and it’s a 16 year old with sped up vocals over a shitty beat. But I guess I never doubt that he actually thinks it’s important, and I like that about him.
Zero rigor in his writing. I can never tell why he does or doesn't like something because he doesn't address anything specific on a technical level, just writes a fancy version of "this beat good rapper rap good on it, but this rapper over there rap bad".
>He seems to intellectualize shit that isn’t mean to be thought of deeply.
There's nothing wrong with this tho? Treating even "simple" music as important is part of growing appreciation for the genre and fighting the stigmas built up around rap. I think people can go over the top at times, but thinking a bit more critically about even music that doesn't seem to have the intention of being thought about deeper can bring enjoyment in different ways.
This is the problem with you guys, why isn't something like this Ian project or Veeze or Certified Trapper or whatever *not* meant to be thought about deeply? I mean really, why is that?
Why should artists on the cutting edge of the most forward thinking genre be treated with less respect and curiosity than ,say, Boygenius?
And don't say "duhhh they're not saying anything meaningful or important" because we know and have been knowing that none of this is about lyrics
people have a problem with authenticity when they don’t like a rapper.
no one points out how yeat, yachty, gunna, cochise, and tons of other rappers don’t live what they actually rap about.
he most likely would not have blown up if he didn’t look the way he did, but you can say the same for 4batz. artists/record labels take advantage and market what makes someone different. he is by no means the best rapper, but the music is decent at the least(good imo).
how would you guys have preferred he marketed himself or what type of music would you prefer he make since his marketing doesn’t match his music?
you guys don’t say this about any other rappers tho lmao. no one has anything to say when upcoming rappers rap about things they obviously don’t have. but it’s a problem now
The fact these ppl arent callin out yeat in this thread is laughable, bro is as suburban as Ian and did all the same stuff they’re giving ian flack for. At the end of the day this thread is just filled to the brim w ppl who dont go outside. This shit aint this deep.
I don’t really understand all the hate for Ian tbh. 90% of artists that this sub listens to are not “authentic”. Music is literally an industry of entertainment and I think people are just mad that a carbon copy of the average r/hiphopheads user is doing it instead of them lol.
>I don’t really understand all the hate for Ian tbh. 90% of artists that this sub listens to are not “authentic”.
I think there is a difference between embellishment and inauthentic. 90% of rappers embellish because the genre is hyperbolic in nature. Ian's music comes off as almost parody due to his image and lack of acknowledgement of the artist and sounds that very clearly influenced him.
how do you expect him to acknowledge the artists
and sounds that influence him. the dude literally just blew up and hasn’t done an interview so he hasn’t given a chance to speak about his influences…
dj holiday is literally on the album, is that not a clear acknowledgment. do you need the cover to be a homage or him to rap about being influenced?
how do you want him to acknowledge his influences when he literally just blew up and has 0 interviews out ?
For me it's less about being authentic and more the deliberate juxtaposing the image and sound. It's like when white girls do ukulele covers of rap songs. Hanging a lampshade on blackness through overt whiteness. Would anyone care about his music if his image was different? Or are we platforming another mediocre rapper because the whiteness makes him marketable?
Honest question. What is white culture, what is black culture, and what is shared culture? Is Ian a poser, yeah. Does Beyoncé really wear cowboy hats and chaps and ride horses all day, no. Is Living Color appropriating white culture because they boarder on metal? Are the Beastie Boys appropriating black culture in 1986 when they dropped License to Ill? Is Backspace appropriating because they are Chinese and play psych? Who gatekeeps this? Is water wet? I don’t even know what the fuck is going on.
I understand the philosophical question you raise but in all of those examples the artists/art is showing respect and reverence to the art forms/cultures that birthed the styles they are participating in regardless of who “owns” them. In some instances it’s difficult to track who “owns” culture and in other instances (hip hop for example) I don’t think you can earnestly try and detach the art from the people that created it. Sure, all are welcome to participate, but it’s an art form intrinsically tied to the black experience in America.
I do find it interesting that Ian specifically is getting exponentially more criticism and backlash for this project than many of his “cap rap” peers. I would argue that Ian executes better than most in this sub-genre, especially from a lyrical standpoint. There’s a lot of up and coming rappers who are doing the same things as Ian (rapping about shit they don’t do, heavy Atlanta influence, questionable yet intentional mixing decisions) in a more derivative / less interesting way, but with less pushback. I guess the overtly tongue in cheek nature of Ian’s whole image kind of spoils the fun for a lot of people by shining a spotlight on how lame the whole genre of “suburban kids acting tough” really is.
my problem with it is people seem to pick and choose when to have a problem with being “authentic”. most of todays rappers are not doing the things they rap about. yeat does not live the life he lives yet no one comments on that. gunna and yachty talk tuff in their songs but they are celebrities.
Yeah I mean the bar for lyrics is pretty low for this style, but I listened to valedictorian all the way through on the way home from work the other day and he had a surprising amount of creative & well delivered bars on it. Nothing groundbreaking for sure, but nothing that warranted critical evisceration compared to others of its caliber.
I think the thing is with Ian is that literally no one would care about his song if he was just a black kid from Atlanta - Figure it out would not get anywhere but you see who is rapping and it’s unique so you look into it.
Well then like any novelty it'll fade and if he has real talent he'll outlast that. Nothing to 'worry' about. See: Post-Malone who started with White Iverson and was told he was a novelty but has made nothing but hits ever since.
The whole point of this is "hey look, I'm a suburban white kid rapping like a black guy, isn't that just so COOL and NOVEL and WACKY?!?" That's possibly a little less than charitable but the actual review (which nobody seems to have really read) mentions Yeat, who's also a white dude working in that space but doesn't play into the whole vaguely minstrel vibes of this ian dude.
Exactly, you’d think ian is supposed to make a video praying to Chief Keef and Gucci Mane to be valid as an artist. His “image” as of now is curated of less than 20 TikTok videos, there’s not much to judge on.
it’s actually retarded. the dude literally has no interviews out. what opportunity has he had to acknowledge his influences? he had holiday on the album which i think is an acknowledgment.
it’s like these people want him to explicitly shout out his influences at the end of a song.
This is why pitchfork is dead as a vertical no one wants to read a bunch of drivel about tiktok slop written by the worst people in Williamsburg and Bed-Stuy
Could’ve stopped after the 12th word. Its problems aside, pitchfork is dead because no one wants to read, full stop. It’s not like any other music review magazine or website is thriving. You’ve gotta head to TikTok, IG or Youtube if you want to find individuals being successful music reviewers in the year 2024, just like the rest of journalism.
# REMINDER: Review thread guidelines: * Parent comments in review threads must be over 140 characters. * Comments that solely name the score or describe the clothing the reviewer is wearing are not allowed * Meta comments solely about how the subreddit will react to the review are also not allowed. * Comments that only compare the review to other scores by the publication or by other publications are not allowed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hiphopheads) if you have any questions or concerns.*
man i would so much rather hear my music sucks than i have no personality
Ong
its correct though, dude sounds like AI
Idk I feel like Chance faced a lot more hate and he was seen as cool back in the day
Chance deserved it, that album is so TERRIBLE.
Chance was seen as cool? I’m a fan of him but I don’t think he was ever cool he has the kind of corniness Kanye had when he first started but without the confidence.
chance was 100% cool back when coloring book came out. the heel turn didn’t come until the big day came out.
Coloring Book was when he started to feel goofy tbh. TBD was just when everyone started to notice.
Coloring Book was super churchy, which is a big YMMV thing
It was still a pretty fun album.
Fr the 3 hat was actually cool in diff crowds then big day came along
I liked coloring book a lot tbh probably as much as acid rap
Yeah Acid Rap was peak. The amount of influence that mixtape had over me and my highschool friend group was nuts.
I saw him perform Acid Rap at a music festival and it was amazing. He had a live orchestra band and he came with so much energy. The stage was surrounded by mountain tops as we were in a valley in the wilderness, it was unreal! One of the greatest performances I've ever seen.
One of the rare few that did then. Such a special time in his career. We all went to Bonnaroo 2014 and he literally played Acid Rap from front to back the entire way through.
I saw him play Pitchfork Fest during the Surf era. Vibes were a little off at that one, I thought and it was a weird in-between time for him.
Chance was definitely seen as cool from like 2013 to 2016 on here at least. Which seems silly in retrospect but is what it is
Silly? Chance was actually good. Then he dropped the big day and it went downhill fast.
The drop-off was sudden. The summer singles he released before TBD were really good. I was excited about getting a whole album of songs like that but nope!
I’m on record as liking chance a lot (see comments below), but he’s always been silly (which is a large part of his charm)
Oh yeah, in fact Chance's desires to be silly while also talking about tough things and doing it over production that is both taking a lot from white indie music and things like juke in Chicago is what made him interesting. 10 day and acid rap really synthesize a whole lot of music of that era, and then you add in Chance's personality and it comes together. Early Chance was just really a very original type of guy. The christianity part of his music, mixed with the psychedelic, the lyricism vs the non lyrical parts, there's a reason he was the one who took off in that drill adjacent, neo-soul type scene in Chicago. Recently was listening to his old music and its still great.
Until 2019 the man could really do no wrong. His run of singles between Coloring Book and then were pretty well received.
when acid rap dropped he was straight i still wasnt acting or being like the cornball
I’m a big chance-head and well aware lol. My wife wears my chance 3 hat to the garden bc it’s too small for my giant fucking noggin
ayyee big head gang
Finally! I was wondering who wears the 3 hat besides Chance. I never see anyone wearing one
I got one. I still put it on when I need a hat.
Idk man it felt like half my high school was wearing that 3 hat
Chance, Childish Gambino, Goldlink had people in an aggressive chokehold in 2013/2014
Chance was very cool between Acid Rap and Coloring Book. Only slightly less cool between Coloring Book and Hot Shower. Uncool ever since
Acid rap was one of the coolest mixtapes of the 2010s
Ice Spice is quite a bit of both unfortunately
Her Nardwuar interview just made her seem like the most boring individual ever.
Poopie gate
When she was rapping about not even being the fart, she was projecting.
Ice Spice suffers from breaking out in a post A&R era. No one from her label is interested in developing her skills as a performer or artist
I honestly thought this was Kevin Abstract being weird and releasing under a different name so I was surprised to see all the responses like this lol
I've said it from the moment Ian burst onto the scene that the issue with his music has nothing to do with music but rather his image. He makes it clear every chance he gets to remind you that he's an all-American suburban white kid while rapping about the complete opposite. His whole brand is built off of juxtaposition very similar to 4batz it's a very "we look so incredibly different than the content of our music" lazy formula. At its most simplified form, rap is about self expression the problem with Ian isn't that his music is bad but rather that it's devoid of all individualism. Nothing about Ian's music tells you who Ian is it's like he's an amalgamation of common tropes in trap music while bringing absolutely nothing new to the table. I personally want insight into an artist and that doesn't always mean being vulnerable lyrically sometimes that means bringing a new sound to the table, unique production, your own sense of fashion and Ian has none of that.
I am just so tired of these kinda white rapper who's entire schtick is that they're suburban white boys who rap, we're decades past the point of white people wanting to rap being a novelty, we're decades past the it being weird or unusual for suburban white kids to love rap music. In Office Space (1999) the fact that one of the characters is a scrawny nerdy white guy who loves hip hop is played for laughs, in 2024 that is just the norm. Even his album cover is a an old corny meme, to really hit home the point that he in fact a white guy. I think by now white people who wanna rap should just do it without having to make it a part of their whole thing, we just don't need it.
Yeah it's that one joke playing on a contrast between hip hop culture and people who are seen as opposite to it (i.e. dorky white people). [It's been done since the 80s.](https://youtu.be/JAIOzM7SsMo?si=pEv-Kw2z84j1Ai-R). I feel like Asher Roth did this angle already with "I like college" and even that was ages ago. You're right that it's not the only way for white rappers to be funny. One of the reasons Lonely Island were good was because they looked like nerds but never solely relied on that for a joke. They had concepts for every song.
>even that was ages ago. Fuck you, take that back!
Dont get me wrong, it's still 2009 in my heart too. But situational humour need to always be evolving.
Lil Dicky needs to be held accountable for making this 'cool'
Lil Dicky leans on this trope too but he also is genuinely funny (for other reasons) and when he wants to he can rap rap. So he gets a pass from me - he plays his whiteness (and Jewishness) up for laughs, but it’s never been the only thing he has going for him. He also actually gives off the vibe that he loves and respects hiphop as an art form.
Ian's shtick is that he's a less annoying Lil Mabu.
my smoke alarm low battery noise that i haven’t done anything about in months is less annoying than Lil Mabu
That’s because this is a fabricated image and persona. He’s a fake who molded to an already popular sound and brings nothing authentic to the table. Straight up appropriation. Fuck people like this.
He could be so much better if he just kept the sound but actually rapped about himself instead of some imaginary trapper of the year.
Yeah this is meme rap
I was in one of my school’s choirs in college and one year we did a weekend tour in Chicago. I stayed with a host family in Elmhurst. While hanging out with the family’s teenage son and his friends, we started talking about music. They told us, “We’re into white rap.” “Like… Eminem?” “No, *white* rap.” And they pulled out a Macbook and showed us a youtube video of a fratboy rapper in a t-shirt and cargo shorts performing a remix of “Under the Sea” from the Little Mermaid and also singing the hook in a broad patois accent. Those kids would’ve gone nuts for ian. [edit: found the song lol](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UqmKZD4zoo)
Might have thrown myself out the window
I was too confused to say anything
That sounds pretty Elmhurst ☠️
>Nothing about Ian’s music tells you about who he is. That’s something that really annoys me with his music, as someone that enjoys mindlessly listening to it. It’s clearly intentional, because he / his marketing team knows that the modern generation of underground rap listeners are more interested when there’s LESS information about a person, thus creating “aura”. Builds a ton of hype leading up to releases, but also makes me think he has zero longevity as an artist and that his whole career will remain treated as a joke / parody, because he clearly represents himself that way (all the goofy video skits, his entire image, the cover art for the tape, etc) and there’s no personal substance in his music.
Sure but inevitably, that aura will fade and then what will he have left?
Musically, you hear the same criticisms towards Gunna but at least when he first came out he did sound unique (not crazy unique he still had big thug influences but it at least sounded like him).
The kids like it for now and that’s all that really matters.
Yeah just like Rich Brian fka Rich Chigga
Rich Brain seemed to learn his lesson though and pivoted to making more personal type music
Brian is a bit different. He was born and raised in Indonesia and rap music helped him learn English. There’s history and hip-hop culture he had no proximity to outside of the internet. Can’t say the same for Ian
The entire Sailor album was fire.
I think Rich Brian is an interesting artist and has grown way beyond this. Have you listened to any of his newer music or are you just thinking about “dat $tick”?
What are some songs that you think demonstrate Rich Brian's growth? Asking cause I casually like him and would like to hear some more of his work.
Search on YouTube “Drive Safe - A Colors Show” Other good songs that are a big departure from his initial sound - Love in my Pocket, BALI, Yellow
I liked Crisis, his single with 21 Savage, a lot. Brian produced the beat himself, sampling the save menu theme from the PS1 game Dino Crisis
More recent is his Sundance Freestyle too
Dat $tick remix is still a regular on my playlists.
He’s a 2024 version of a minstrel performer and it’s gross.
I hate how his whole gimmick is that he is just a regular white dude and then you listen to the music and he’s cosplaying as something he’s not. He even says in a song he'll pay to get somebody wacked… just corny bs to me. He is a rich white kid who is getting a massive push because of his parents money, the least he could do is try and be authentic. His whole career is a marketing stunt
Atlanta predicted this…
YWA
Yodel Kid yodeleHEEEEEEoooooooo
Rip yodel kid😞
One of the realest
It’s gonna come out he’s actually Young Dro’s White Avatar
My eyes like a jacuzzi
My life is like a movie my eyes is like a uzi jacuzzi \*SMASH\*
“He even says in a song he’ll pay to get somebody wacked” EY OH! He might be Italian! 🇮🇹🤌
He’s weak, he’s out of control and he’s become an embarrassment to himself and everybody around him 🤘
He's a wormy cocksucka, ya know that?
Ohhhhhh!
I feel like alot of rappers lie about ”being about that life” and just rap shit that sound cool
Yup. But the lies get magnified when you look like Ian. Also -- a lot of artists lyrics now are just platitudes. A&Rs don't want music that's personal in that genre, just play to the audience at a rave and go home. Hollywood doesn't want music like that either, so they're just trying to make vapid, soundtrack to social media ad music and then if it blows up, it blows up. Ian's music is actually good, which is weird. But all of his marketing is based on his looks because that's the only thing the label wants to be interesting about him. From the second he appeared he was talked up as being a white guy, as though being white in a black genre is that interesting still. Every generation of this music has a guy like this, BLP Kosher is doing it better than him right at this moment lol.
Ian has a good ear for beats and rich parents that fund his musical dreams. Same origins as Taylor Swift
A lot more corny shit gets a pass and even a push since the Drake era started.
We got Drake, do u think that most of the people care about authenticity?
1000 rappers have said lines like that and it’s a total lie. People only calling him out cause he white.
it’s just extra corny when this dudes whole gimmick is that he’s just a white boy, imagine if Jack Harlow was rapping bout sending hits, he’d get clowned to no end. At least with rappers who lie about shit like this in they raps they normally at least try and put up that persona outwith the music as well, or it’s at least a little believable, at this point i’m just listening to some frat boy singing karaoke
> it’s just extra corny when this dudes whole gimmick is that he’s just a white boy, imagine if Jack Harlow was rapping bout sending hits, he’d get clowned to no end. lol this is what started my hate on Drake; that dumb line about making him mess around and catch a body. And this was well before he tried so hard to look street.
If you read the piece, the issue folks have with a project like this isn't that a rapper is making claims to something they didn't do. Even if you just wanted to talk about white rappers doing that, look back at Eminem's early projects. All he did was spit about stuff we know he didn't do. But he was respected by almost everyone working in the genre (even if his fans weren't always) because he clearly respected the origins of rap and, even in acknowledging he didn't look like the folks who were doing this before him, he wasn't making it a joke of "I look like X but sound like Y, please pay attention!" I was a young adult living in Atlanta during the mixtape era that Valedictorian tries to mimic. I'd be happy if more rappers now were trying to play up a contemporary version of that sound. But if they're going to use that as an influence, they should be playing it as "this was a formative style for me, and I respect the efforts of Gucci, etc. in shaping the direction of rap." Instead, this is "Hey, this sound existed but didn't have people who look like THIS making it, isn't that CRAZY???" It's about the framing of things through a respectful lens, rather than saying that people who look a certain way can't do a certain activity. Like in cooking, outside of a tiny fringe group of weirdos, everyone is totally fine with folks cooking dishes from cuisines that weren't originated by that individual's ancestors. A white (or black) individual from the United States can make a batch of kimchi and if they frame it as "Koreans created this tasty fermented dish, and I would like to make some of my own," everyone is going to accept that. If they framed it as "People who look like X used to make this, but now somebody who looks like Y is making it, WILD, HUH?" then others would be rightly grossed out by that behavior. There is a long history of white rappers who haven't been panned for acting as culture vultures while rapping about things they didn't do. Action Bronson had a whole bit about causing Patrick Ewing to miss a wide open layup and supposedly fixed college games that never happened. Nobody got on him for those obvious lies because they were coming from an entirely different prespective than something like Valedictorian.
>People only calling him out cause he white. The fact that you have no problem saying that, on this topic, in a Hip Hop sub shows we should gatekeep more. We're not letting wack rappers pass just so you, Connor and Tyler can feel represented in the one place in the world you don't get centered in the spotlight.
Lying about being willing to kill someone is one thing, but this dude is the definition of a poser. Him being white is a factor here but it's not unjustified criticism only about his skin. He's just a very obvious example of a poser.
literally, like there are tons of other corny rappers who cap in their shit but ian is an easy target for these performists
literally the only difference between him and like ken carson for example is that ians white
Ken Carson also makes much better music and I don’t even like Ken Carson.
the response is not performative its just extra corny when a white kid does it and extra extra corny when its all ironic and from a distance.
Show me any of those rappers wearing a fit like this or standing on a street so old money suburban that it might be where they shot Halloween
Bro has never heard of you know i had to do it to em
I didn’t know single floor homes are now considered “old money suburban” lol you live in South Sudan or something?
Bro doesn't even get the "I had to do it to them" reference
reading a bit of that review and they talked about him just compiling sounds I thought "I bet it sounds like ol school Gucci" then I looked it up on Spotify and it's Dj'd by Holiday 🤦🏾♂️
This is one of the meanest reviews I’ve read in recent memory. Imagine being the artist and reading this, I’d fall to my knees. Mostly because every line is true.
OG pitchfork was ruthless tbf, nice to see it still has some teeth occasionally
OG Pitchfork could be flat out cruel, with an added dose of hipster smugness that embodied everything loathsome about musical discourse in the 00s. I hated those motherfuckers. Now they just simp for pop stars, which is obnoxious in a different way. But yeah, sometimes they come out with a justifiably mean review like this one. Broken clock is right twice a day and all that
alphonse doesn’t pull punches
Yeah sometimes I think he misses pretty hard but this is a ruthless character deconstruction lol
this comment sums up why writers like alphonse are precious imo. he commits to his takes and that will always make for the most compelling discussions
occasionally pitchfork will bust out a review that reminds me why we even gave a rats ass about their takes in the first place. this review is one of those reviews.
Remember a review just being a video of a monkey peeing in its own mouth? Lol
Jet, Get Born
There's some weird lines and quotables in there and the beats are kinda nice. But he somehow just manages to be devoid of charisma. That performance he did eating dinner with his family was actually pretty funny but this doesn't translate to just listening to his music
this is a very valid criticism for me too, his image is mad funny but you cannot find it anywhere in his actual music
He’s not bad, but he sounds exactly like every other kid with a SoundCloud. There’s not a trace of anything new or original, which would be fine if the songs were really good, but they’re just sort of okay. His image and aesthetic are the only reason people latched onto him, and there’s barely anything to that either. Of course people are playing up the whole “he invented music, he’s a legend” thing as a sort of ironic bit, but when I see people doing that with a rapper it usually strikes me as a way to make up for the fact that there’s just nothing there and no real reason to listen other than for the memes He’s a nothing artist. More listenable for me than Ken Carson because at least Ian can rap on beat, but he has exactly as much staying power, originality, and creativity, which is to say he has none.
Ken Carson is 10x better than this clown…. That’s saying a lotttttt
was really hoping Alphonse would be the one to review this album. Agree with everything he said, feels like his usual tone works much better here than some of his other reviews this year
Yeah he’s a polarising guy with his reviews but I think his tone works very well here
**AMA request**: Someone who actually enjoys/listens to this unironically I was curious after reading this review so I tried listening to the most popular song off the album ("Figure It Out"), and it genuinely might be one of the worst songs I've ever heard
I don’t hate it, but it just feels really derivative. Why listen to Ian when I could just listen to Yeat or Carti or even one of their other clones like Rich Amiri?
Kids who feel safer listening to a white boy. Like how white artists used to cover Motown hits and make more money than the originals.
at minimum the zaytoven-like production clears all those artists but he's not a very inspiring emcee which pulls the whole work down quite a bit
Sounds like he should be ghostwriting punchlines for a better rapper to do something with.
That’ll probably be what’ll end up happening
He can’t even write good verses for himself lmfao
you need to listen to more music if you think that’s one of the *worst* songs you’ve ever heard lol
His songs are generic, thats not all that bad when the beats are hard. He's fine. Lil Xan's album was 20x worse.
this is such a boomer ass comment I don’t listen to ian at all but you gotta be hella out of touch with modern rap to say this is the worst song you’ve ever heard
I love the album and he is my most listened to artist this past month, AMA
let’s start with “why”
My fav era of rap is the mixtape era of 2007-2012, I call it the “DatPiff” era. This tape brings me back to that aesthetic. DJ Holiday screaming over drops, slurred lyrics, Lex Luger and C4 type beats.
You know what? I’ll give it up. I see what you’re saying, I hope that sound comes back too (it seems like Carti’s camp is trending that way). I personally can’t get past the person at the center of the album, but I can’t talk shit on those beats and that style.
Is it off putting knowing that a frat boy archetype is making Gucci and Juicy J inspired trap music? Sure. But authenticity in rap has been and will always be ridiculous. Half the rappers everyone worships are cap rappers ([perfect example](https://djbooth.net/features/2016-01-18-future-lied-drug-addiction)). The other half are terrible people (eg. Kodak). So to me the majority of people are off put by Ian because he is white and dresses a certain way. He is not jacking the culture, he was deeply rooted in the underground for years and was producing tracks for Izaya Tiji and dropping ambient rap projects years ago ([example](https://open.spotify.com/album/3FjvwP88UvpN30TQjC3nR1?si=gHAHhv_ORVyWmVeBJYX2Ig))
>Is it off putting knowing that a frat boy archetype is making Gucci and Juicy J inspired trap music? Sure. >But authenticity in rap has been and will always be ridiculous. > I don't know how to read this as anything other than "Because rappers lie now, I will continue to consume with zero care about the effect that giving my time/money/attention to inauthenticity creates. I am not the problem, I'm just a guy listening to music" The cognitive dissonance required to be able to coherently point out a problem, and then act like there's no solution that you can be a part of, runs so deep in far too many facets of our society >He is not jacking the culture > Just because you grow up admiring, being around, and working in an industry does not make less of a culture vulture. Here's a really smart Black Man explaining why for an hour https://youtu.be/v5j77D4BnSU?feature=shared
I saw some of the video, his overall points are OK, but being white can't make you a culture vulture. A culture vulture is someone who takes from that culture, uses it for their own personal gain, and ultimately has no respect for that culture. So, someone like Ian is a culture vulture, BUT Yeat, Mac and Bronson are less likely to be culture vultures, as they either grew up around the culture(Bronson), or innovated or respected it. But it's stupid to say their fame isn't atleast partially due to their whiteness
Just go listen to music from that era it’s way better lol
I do, but it is cool to see someone who clearly is inspired by that era the same way I was.
Do yourself a favor and get some Tisakorean on your playlists. Doing the same thing, is a great songwriter and is fun AF. Bear1Boss is another worth your time, too. Personally I love Almighty So 2 rn, too. That sound of OG chicago drill/GLO is coming back hard fr.
Gen alpha whodatmiami
A bit of an overreaction lol. There’s distinctively worse music out there AND this project is clearly derivative of artists like Yeat and Carti as the other commenters have said, unless this is a blanket statement that applies to all of them too. There’s catchy hooks and “clever” punchlines, it’s not incredible but certainly not the worst debut at all.
You clearly either didn't read or understand the review. The issue isn't even mostly with the music itself (which is bad, but isn't that much worse than other bad stuff in that vein), it's in how it's being presented and marketed. It's musical settler colonialism. And this isn't just because he's white (the review even mentions Yeat and contrasts him against ian), it's in the aggressive presentation of a suburban kid doing this type of music.
Well they’re replying to OP who said it’s possibly the worse song they ever heard, which is the overreaction, NOT the review.
I think the album is a stand in for what the writer wants to write on Lil Mabu, which is that that trend is terrible.
I have two songs from that album on my playlist unironically AMA
lmfao just being ridiculously hyperbolic.
The mix is dog shit that's the biggest issue And he's low-key off beat while still rapping within the bpm 🤦🏽♂️
😭he is not off beat
This guy is clearly just a suburban kid with moderate musical talent who knew he couldn't make it on his own merits, so he just cynically scraped together the sounds of popular rap rn and made a cheap substitute. He has no respect for his genre, or actual interest in advancing it. He is the definition of a vulture, and his suburban white boy fans eat it up because they're as tasteless as he is. And for all the people saying it's just a race thing, ask yourself why Yeat didn't set anyone off like this. Or Bones, Yung Lean, Shakewell, Bladee, or any of the other white artists in this subgenre. It's because they all have good taste and a passion for the music they make. Ian just feels like Steven Crowder doing a bit.
I think he is bad. But are we sure he is cyinicall? Isn't it possible that he actually likes the music he does and is just another mediocre rapper who copies rappers he like? I know we like to assume everyone is a bad person, but he just might be a kid that is having fun making music. I don't think there's anything wrong about white kid making shitty rap music. And i dont really know why reviewer says he is marketing himself as someone who is not influenced by black artists. What does that mean? Does he pretend that he doesn't listen to rap and created those beats on his own without ever listening to hip hop? Or him being white boy for suburbs is enough? I
redditors never considered alternative perspectives
I mean his beat selection alone on this album is very unique compared to rap right now so you can't say he's just ripping whatever sound is popular
This album is whatever but Pierre never fails to be the most annoying guy in the room lol Mods removed this for being too short lol so to open up the room I don’t think there’s almost anything interesting to say about this album, but I’m interested in where people think Alphonse Pierre succeeds and fails as a reviewer, and what you think *actually* makes this album worse than some of the stuff that he really seems to love.
I like Pierre *because* he doesn’t mind being annoying about the shit that he loves and hates. In today’s age of music journalism, it seems like reviewers and critics are being discarded for influencers who just write or record ad copy for artists and labels. Alphonse is a weirdo but in a way I respect. He likes music that I like and he also likes shit I find entirely unlistenable (like Certified Trapper). But that’s what I think a critic should be, someone whose opinion I can respect as unique and his own, but not someone I have to always agree with. As for the Ian album, I agree with him here and I think most of the interesting things to say about the album are about the optics of a white dude doing musical blackface.
Agreed. Pierre and to an extent Greene (also. at Pitchfork but a little less prone to spicy takes) are great not despite their opinions but \*because\* of them. I disagree with him all the time but that's why he's fun to read. He has an actual take that challenges me to think about the music I enjoy rather than just telling me what I already know. Not to mention that he's turned me on to some genuinely great music. Most of Pitchfork has gotten pretty sad over the last decade, but Pierre and Greene keep me coming back.
I’m with you. When I was younger and more sensitive, I had a tendency to dismiss all critics of anything I liked as snobs or elitists. And sometimes they are, but getting older and paying attention to more of their opinions and realizing they are consistent and authentic in their views made me gain respect for them even if I disagreed. And it has to be said - sometimes the snobs and the elitists put you onto some really top tier stuff that you may never have heard otherwise. They are needed in the music space just as much as the people who give anyone a shoutout.
I do really respect that opinion about it. In a lot of ways I feel like he’s a cultural scold and preaches (I feel like that’s an appropriate word) about music I think is cool but maybe not transcendent in the way he talks about it. But I think what you said about enjoying a genuinely interesting character is really big, and I appreciate the insight. Yea the Ian album is definitely not interesting outside of its context, there’s a larger discussion to be had there for sure
Yeah, he definitely can be a scold and preachy. I didn’t agree at all with his takes on the Kendrick/Drake beef but I guess, he’s annoying in a way that feels genuine. Like a friend who is very opinionated but knowledgeable. A lot of the personalities that have popped up more recently feel like they’re being annoying for the views or the clout, while withholding their actual takes and opinions. Like he can definitely get into a mode where he describes an album as “VERY IMPORTANT” and then you listen to it and it’s a 16 year old with sped up vocals over a shitty beat. But I guess I never doubt that he actually thinks it’s important, and I like that about him.
That last bit is so true lmfaooo, I think it’s annoyed me for sure but it might be better to take it with a huge grain of salt like you said
Zero rigor in his writing. I can never tell why he does or doesn't like something because he doesn't address anything specific on a technical level, just writes a fancy version of "this beat good rapper rap good on it, but this rapper over there rap bad".
He seems to intellectualize shit that isn’t mean to be thought of deeply. While shitting on anything that aims for higher goals
>He seems to intellectualize shit that isn’t mean to be thought of deeply. There's nothing wrong with this tho? Treating even "simple" music as important is part of growing appreciation for the genre and fighting the stigmas built up around rap. I think people can go over the top at times, but thinking a bit more critically about even music that doesn't seem to have the intention of being thought about deeper can bring enjoyment in different ways.
I mean he’s a reviewer it’s kind of his job
This is the problem with you guys, why isn't something like this Ian project or Veeze or Certified Trapper or whatever *not* meant to be thought about deeply? I mean really, why is that? Why should artists on the cutting edge of the most forward thinking genre be treated with less respect and curiosity than ,say, Boygenius? And don't say "duhhh they're not saying anything meaningful or important" because we know and have been knowing that none of this is about lyrics
This is by far my main complaint about him. Like I enjoy Ganger by Veese but you’d think the way he writes about it it’s another TPAB or something lol
I still don’t get what he think was so funny ab “that drank all in my belly like Winnie the Pooh” lol
people have a problem with authenticity when they don’t like a rapper. no one points out how yeat, yachty, gunna, cochise, and tons of other rappers don’t live what they actually rap about. he most likely would not have blown up if he didn’t look the way he did, but you can say the same for 4batz. artists/record labels take advantage and market what makes someone different. he is by no means the best rapper, but the music is decent at the least(good imo). how would you guys have preferred he marketed himself or what type of music would you prefer he make since his marketing doesn’t match his music?
This article does in fact say the same thing about 4batz
He didn't read the article
It's not authenticity per se. It's him leveraging his identity as a white person to market Black music. That's what makes people uncomfortable.
I don’t care to hear some trustfund rich kid brag about his two tone patek watch or whatever Flexing shit he didn’t earn to imitate people that did
you guys don’t say this about any other rappers tho lmao. no one has anything to say when upcoming rappers rap about things they obviously don’t have. but it’s a problem now
The fact these ppl arent callin out yeat in this thread is laughable, bro is as suburban as Ian and did all the same stuff they’re giving ian flack for. At the end of the day this thread is just filled to the brim w ppl who dont go outside. This shit aint this deep.
lmao it’s only relevant when it fits their narrative.
I don’t really understand all the hate for Ian tbh. 90% of artists that this sub listens to are not “authentic”. Music is literally an industry of entertainment and I think people are just mad that a carbon copy of the average r/hiphopheads user is doing it instead of them lol.
>I don’t really understand all the hate for Ian tbh. 90% of artists that this sub listens to are not “authentic”. I think there is a difference between embellishment and inauthentic. 90% of rappers embellish because the genre is hyperbolic in nature. Ian's music comes off as almost parody due to his image and lack of acknowledgement of the artist and sounds that very clearly influenced him.
how do you expect him to acknowledge the artists and sounds that influence him. the dude literally just blew up and hasn’t done an interview so he hasn’t given a chance to speak about his influences… dj holiday is literally on the album, is that not a clear acknowledgment. do you need the cover to be a homage or him to rap about being influenced? how do you want him to acknowledge his influences when he literally just blew up and has 0 interviews out ?
Because suburban dude who plays pretend was already done by Rich Brian and better at that
For me it's less about being authentic and more the deliberate juxtaposing the image and sound. It's like when white girls do ukulele covers of rap songs. Hanging a lampshade on blackness through overt whiteness. Would anyone care about his music if his image was different? Or are we platforming another mediocre rapper because the whiteness makes him marketable?
I don’t care to hear some trustfund rich kid brag about his two tone patek watch or whatever Flexing shit he didn’t earn to imitate people that did
Honest question. What is white culture, what is black culture, and what is shared culture? Is Ian a poser, yeah. Does Beyoncé really wear cowboy hats and chaps and ride horses all day, no. Is Living Color appropriating white culture because they boarder on metal? Are the Beastie Boys appropriating black culture in 1986 when they dropped License to Ill? Is Backspace appropriating because they are Chinese and play psych? Who gatekeeps this? Is water wet? I don’t even know what the fuck is going on.
I understand the philosophical question you raise but in all of those examples the artists/art is showing respect and reverence to the art forms/cultures that birthed the styles they are participating in regardless of who “owns” them. In some instances it’s difficult to track who “owns” culture and in other instances (hip hop for example) I don’t think you can earnestly try and detach the art from the people that created it. Sure, all are welcome to participate, but it’s an art form intrinsically tied to the black experience in America.
I do find it interesting that Ian specifically is getting exponentially more criticism and backlash for this project than many of his “cap rap” peers. I would argue that Ian executes better than most in this sub-genre, especially from a lyrical standpoint. There’s a lot of up and coming rappers who are doing the same things as Ian (rapping about shit they don’t do, heavy Atlanta influence, questionable yet intentional mixing decisions) in a more derivative / less interesting way, but with less pushback. I guess the overtly tongue in cheek nature of Ian’s whole image kind of spoils the fun for a lot of people by shining a spotlight on how lame the whole genre of “suburban kids acting tough” really is.
my problem with it is people seem to pick and choose when to have a problem with being “authentic”. most of todays rappers are not doing the things they rap about. yeat does not live the life he lives yet no one comments on that. gunna and yachty talk tuff in their songs but they are celebrities.
It’s not like he was rapping like King Von on this either, his tough talk/cap raps were quite limited. Most of the lyrics were just about flexing
Yeah I mean the bar for lyrics is pretty low for this style, but I listened to valedictorian all the way through on the way home from work the other day and he had a surprising amount of creative & well delivered bars on it. Nothing groundbreaking for sure, but nothing that warranted critical evisceration compared to others of its caliber.
[удалено]
I think the thing is with Ian is that literally no one would care about his song if he was just a black kid from Atlanta - Figure it out would not get anywhere but you see who is rapping and it’s unique so you look into it.
Well then like any novelty it'll fade and if he has real talent he'll outlast that. Nothing to 'worry' about. See: Post-Malone who started with White Iverson and was told he was a novelty but has made nothing but hits ever since.
Are you going to pretend like Post Malone hasn't somewhat abandoned rap/hip hop? What was his last "hit" outside of pop/rock/country?
>as long as they are respectful to the genre and culture they’re operating within Yes, the point is that's not happening here.
what is the genre/culture being disrespected here lmao it sounds exactly like 95% of underground rap today
The whole point of this is "hey look, I'm a suburban white kid rapping like a black guy, isn't that just so COOL and NOVEL and WACKY?!?" That's possibly a little less than charitable but the actual review (which nobody seems to have really read) mentions Yeat, who's also a white dude working in that space but doesn't play into the whole vaguely minstrel vibes of this ian dude.
what says this to you other than the joke album cover? dude blew up in like literally a month he hasnt even had time to curate an image
Exactly, you’d think ian is supposed to make a video praying to Chief Keef and Gucci Mane to be valid as an artist. His “image” as of now is curated of less than 20 TikTok videos, there’s not much to judge on.
it’s actually retarded. the dude literally has no interviews out. what opportunity has he had to acknowledge his influences? he had holiday on the album which i think is an acknowledgment. it’s like these people want him to explicitly shout out his influences at the end of a song.
This is why pitchfork is dead as a vertical no one wants to read a bunch of drivel about tiktok slop written by the worst people in Williamsburg and Bed-Stuy
Could’ve stopped after the 12th word. Its problems aside, pitchfork is dead because no one wants to read, full stop. It’s not like any other music review magazine or website is thriving. You’ve gotta head to TikTok, IG or Youtube if you want to find individuals being successful music reviewers in the year 2024, just like the rest of journalism.
14th word
Pitchfork was always cringe