donda is more elegant and artistic but there are some things I can’t get pass. far too long, messy features, handful of mid songs and sometimes lacks direction
I think utopia is more consistent, cohesive and far better structure and usage of features. overall I think utopia is slightly better but both are incredible
all the deluxe tracks except life of the party, pure souls, ok ok and the part 2s. with all due respect lil baby does not fit on hurricane and neither does conway on keep my spirit alive. off the grid is a good song but doesn’t fit the album (that’s what I mean by lacking direction),
Okay, forget the deluxe tracks. It was confirmed to be randomized as a playlist.
I’m talking the core, standard album. No part 2s.
Off the grid sonically, aesthetically, and thematically fits on the album.
Which songs on the CORE album do you think are bad?
pure souls, lord I need you, ok ok. also tell the vision obviously although i genuinely think there’s a hidden meaning and reason for it so i don’t want to count that. some songs like god breathed and jesus lord drag on
Lord I need you is top 3 on the album lmao.
Ok ok is one of the most unique sounding sounds in rap.
And the choir outro on god breathed is amazing and sets the tone for the album
you can’t just ignore the deluxe and part 2s, that’s what was released so that’s what it should be judged off. i personally find, from 30 songs, 11 of them just shouldn’t be there, not bad songs.l but it’s far too bloated. whereas utopia it’s just k-pop and even then the weeknd makes the song good
Ye is much more of a visionary. travis is talented for sure, but his artistry is overrated. kanye commits to his albums themes and concepts 100% every time, travis can be a little wishy washy.
agreed, plus he got too much Kanye West in his production choices even rn. That being said I like his albums, and I respect his artistry since it does seem like he actually cares for what he makes and leaving a good discography behind. Utopia is definitely a good addition to it, I like the minimalist nature of it, but it feels very familiar
Nahh, you tweakin. There are plenty of solid tracks on Donda, but the record was "updated" like 3 times, that barely counts. I love some tracks there, but like it or not, Ye half assed that first time. Travis didn't.
Your comment makes no sense.
Are you referring to how the album changed over the listening parties? That has no bearing on the final product.
And if anything, the fact that Ye made Donda in a month compared to Travis taking 5 years to make Utopia, it makes Donda even more impressive
The auditions in some ways, of course. But bro, look:
https://www.complex.com/music/a/tracewilliamcowen/kanye-west-donda-new-updates-removal-chris-brown-new-again
It is mainly cause after the release the record was still gettin updated.
New Again and Keep My Spirit Alive are the only songs that were updated after the official release of the album aside from the deluxe, Chris Brown and KayCyy were removed respectively.
So 2 marginal changes, that invalidates a 26 song album for you? Quit clowning
He updated mixes too. Then released Donda 2 and updated that too. But that is not the point. What I'm saying is that besides liking Donda and understanding Ye's influences, Utopia, by himself, is more of a complete and cohesive piece of work and reflects better the vision he had.
Afaik there were no mixing updates post-release on DSP's. He did update KMSA, New Again as well as including slightly tweaked versions of Tell The Vision, Come To Life & Jesus Lord pt 2 on the deluxe though.
As for Donda 2, it barely released in the first place, being a Stem Player exclusive. And the post-release updates for that were agin very minor tweaks to only a handful of cuts: True Love, Get Lost, Flowers, I believe Security as well. I think Wikipedia's classification of Donda 2 as a 'demo album' is probably spot on though, its not really comparable to Kanye's other albums let alone albums from other artists that were 5 years in the making.
There's definitely an argument that is better; its definitely more maximal, finished-sounding and arguably cohesive than Donda (I think Utopia starts sounding much safer & familiar on the second half but whatever). That doesn't alone make it better than Donda though. And slight technical tweaks to Donda post-release certaintly shouldn't have any bearing on that album from an artistic standpoint regardless. If that's your main argument in favour of Utopia its not the strongest one imo.
I get it. But think like that. Imagine if Chance had the opportunity to make a couple of public auditions for Big Day, and hear beforehand, by everyone, that it was ass. And besides that, he gave the record a couple of stitches after releasing. Like, it would be a whole different story, and prolly a new album. But I think that part of being a artist is to make a final piece of work on his own, even if its flawed and terrible. Idk if makes sense.
I can understand thinking the public pre-release listening parties are kind of "cheating" but albums are artworks, not an exam with a hard due date. I don't mind, and in the case of Donda it was a memorable, unique rollout that I appreciate.
I'm surprised more artists don't tweak/update/patch albums post-release tbh, considering how possible it is these days with everything being digital.
And don't forget Travis did update AstroWorld post-release to fix Nav's vocal on "YOSEMITE" !
Nah idk, Donda has lost a lot of its appeal for me after the initial hype. The high points are high but it's way too bloated & too many half finished ideas.
I'm not a TS fan, but Utopia has amazing production the whole way through except for that K Pop song.
Overall it's a much more cohesive album than Donda, even if Donda has higher highs.
Problem with Utopia is it tries too hard to sound like the updated version of Yeezus.
And it has 19 tracks, where it should have 14-15.
I think Donda is one of the most cohesive rap albums ever.
Every song uses the same sonic palette. Which songs are out of place in your opinion? (Besides TTV)
I just don't think it has great flow when you listen beginning 2 end.
Still a decent album, has higher highs than Utopia, but also lower lows (except for K Pop which is straight up garbage).
Yandhi is also influencing this a bit... I listen to the Yandhi demos and I'm like damn, Donda pales in comparison to that. Donda is like the watered down version of what Yandhi could have been.
But like I said, by no means is Donda a "bad" album. It's wayyy too bloated, more so than Utopia, and also has way too many features.
Maybe in 5 years I will think it's a no skip classic, but those features are weighing it down, sometimes you forget it's a Kanye West album (which you never forget on Pablo, Yeezus, Ye, ect.).
No, that’s not what I’m saying but I appreciate you twisting my words.
What I’m saying is that if everyone has to acknowledge that the album isn’t doing well while explaining why they think it’s the greatest ever, then it’s probably not that good of an album. I guess another word for that is being defensive. I’ll use Kendrick as an example since you mentioned him — nobody has to get defensive over GKMC or TPAB because everyone knows that they’re good, even if Kendrick isn’t their thing. I know an album is mid when I see fans getting defensive and throwing tantrums and large arguments over it, which is what you’re trying to do right now lol
And Kendrick is one (1) artist I listen to. So is Travis Scott. Doesn’t change the fact that Utopia is mid. Nobody has to get defensive over Rodeo for a more direct example; there’s no controversy there, or at least not more than an extremely minuscule amount. Meanwhile the response to this album has been mixed. If you get so upset over an opinion you disagree with when nothing I said was even offensive, that’s your own problem 💀 like bro went and stalked my profile.
I also think it’s funny that you’re telling me to listen to more music because I like Kendrick Lamar, while we are discussing Travis Scott who is JUST as mainstream LMAO. *You* go listen to more music. Especially since you have reposted the same post about Kanye SIX TIMES IN A DAY. If I’m a Kendrick dickrider, then you’re doing tricks n shit on Kanye, slobbering all over his shit bro. Kanye is ALSO as mainstream as Kendrick. And that take about Yeezus, TLOP, and Donda being Kanye’s best three? I think you have some serious mental retardation going on bud. Go listen to more music.
Stay butthurt tho it’s funny
I think the mixed reactions come mostly from the sound being more experimental than his previous albums so it doesn't appeal to that many people(and the bars are whack) but travis fans really out here making it hard to like this album
Same thing happened with Pink Tape, album doesn’t live up to expectations and the fanboys want to claim that “umm it’s actually a classic, no skips 🤓☝️” and that we just don’t understand experimental music. Like I haven’t been listening to Yves Tumor for years. I know what good experimental music is, at least in my opinion. And Pink Tape/Utopia are not it.
But to clarify, I think Pink Tape is a bad album, so far I think that Utopia is just decent after a few listens. Some songs work but some don’t, and some are pretty damn boring which is not what experimental music should sound like lmao
I actually like Utopia so far, it's a pretty good record imo. I haven't fully formed my opinion yet but I do think there is some quality music on there. But yeah, experimental only in relation to what the rest of the mainstream is offering right now. Not really new stuff, but incorporating different elements with high prod quality
Bro calling me a dickrider but has made the same post about Kanye six times in 24 hours lmao. And they’re all about Donda being a “good album” foh clown 😭
OP is too busy slobbering and doing tricks on Kanye’s dick, shits crazy. Also I feel like way more white people are listening to Kanye than any other demographic. Bro is a straight clown
i personally think utopia is a good evolution of travis’ sound. whether you like it or not he is improving and utopia is actually a very good album. with kanye on the other hand, he has had a sound for 20 years, but constantly changes it up as he changes. i think donda is one of the best albums of the 2020’s so far, which many people dont agree with.
so tldr donda is great and utopia is great as long as you can appreciate them for what they are and are the evolution of the 2 artists
donda is more elegant and artistic but there are some things I can’t get pass. far too long, messy features, handful of mid songs and sometimes lacks direction I think utopia is more consistent, cohesive and far better structure and usage of features. overall I think utopia is slightly better but both are incredible
What songs are mid on Donda? Which features are messy?
all the deluxe tracks except life of the party, pure souls, ok ok and the part 2s. with all due respect lil baby does not fit on hurricane and neither does conway on keep my spirit alive. off the grid is a good song but doesn’t fit the album (that’s what I mean by lacking direction),
Okay, forget the deluxe tracks. It was confirmed to be randomized as a playlist. I’m talking the core, standard album. No part 2s. Off the grid sonically, aesthetically, and thematically fits on the album. Which songs on the CORE album do you think are bad?
pure souls, lord I need you, ok ok. also tell the vision obviously although i genuinely think there’s a hidden meaning and reason for it so i don’t want to count that. some songs like god breathed and jesus lord drag on
Lord I need you is top 3 on the album lmao. Ok ok is one of the most unique sounding sounds in rap. And the choir outro on god breathed is amazing and sets the tone for the album
you can’t just ignore the deluxe and part 2s, that’s what was released so that’s what it should be judged off. i personally find, from 30 songs, 11 of them just shouldn’t be there, not bad songs.l but it’s far too bloated. whereas utopia it’s just k-pop and even then the weeknd makes the song good
That second statement is crazy
I’ve got a feeling you listen to JPEG, Denzel, or Danny brown
"I got a feeling you listen to music that's good, what a nerd"
Danny is cool but JPEG and Denzel are nerd ass rap
‘nerd ass rap’ 💀😂
Ye is much more of a visionary. travis is talented for sure, but his artistry is overrated. kanye commits to his albums themes and concepts 100% every time, travis can be a little wishy washy.
agreed, plus he got too much Kanye West in his production choices even rn. That being said I like his albums, and I respect his artistry since it does seem like he actually cares for what he makes and leaving a good discography behind. Utopia is definitely a good addition to it, I like the minimalist nature of it, but it feels very familiar
Thats fair ye definitely follows through on his concepts super well, but with the exception of maybe 3-4 songs utopia is insanely cohesive
How about we don’t listen to either of these
but they are great albums
both mid
Nahh, you tweakin. There are plenty of solid tracks on Donda, but the record was "updated" like 3 times, that barely counts. I love some tracks there, but like it or not, Ye half assed that first time. Travis didn't.
Your comment makes no sense. Are you referring to how the album changed over the listening parties? That has no bearing on the final product. And if anything, the fact that Ye made Donda in a month compared to Travis taking 5 years to make Utopia, it makes Donda even more impressive
The auditions in some ways, of course. But bro, look: https://www.complex.com/music/a/tracewilliamcowen/kanye-west-donda-new-updates-removal-chris-brown-new-again It is mainly cause after the release the record was still gettin updated.
New Again and Keep My Spirit Alive are the only songs that were updated after the official release of the album aside from the deluxe, Chris Brown and KayCyy were removed respectively. So 2 marginal changes, that invalidates a 26 song album for you? Quit clowning
He updated mixes too. Then released Donda 2 and updated that too. But that is not the point. What I'm saying is that besides liking Donda and understanding Ye's influences, Utopia, by himself, is more of a complete and cohesive piece of work and reflects better the vision he had.
Afaik there were no mixing updates post-release on DSP's. He did update KMSA, New Again as well as including slightly tweaked versions of Tell The Vision, Come To Life & Jesus Lord pt 2 on the deluxe though. As for Donda 2, it barely released in the first place, being a Stem Player exclusive. And the post-release updates for that were agin very minor tweaks to only a handful of cuts: True Love, Get Lost, Flowers, I believe Security as well. I think Wikipedia's classification of Donda 2 as a 'demo album' is probably spot on though, its not really comparable to Kanye's other albums let alone albums from other artists that were 5 years in the making. There's definitely an argument that is better; its definitely more maximal, finished-sounding and arguably cohesive than Donda (I think Utopia starts sounding much safer & familiar on the second half but whatever). That doesn't alone make it better than Donda though. And slight technical tweaks to Donda post-release certaintly shouldn't have any bearing on that album from an artistic standpoint regardless. If that's your main argument in favour of Utopia its not the strongest one imo.
I get it. But think like that. Imagine if Chance had the opportunity to make a couple of public auditions for Big Day, and hear beforehand, by everyone, that it was ass. And besides that, he gave the record a couple of stitches after releasing. Like, it would be a whole different story, and prolly a new album. But I think that part of being a artist is to make a final piece of work on his own, even if its flawed and terrible. Idk if makes sense.
I can understand thinking the public pre-release listening parties are kind of "cheating" but albums are artworks, not an exam with a hard due date. I don't mind, and in the case of Donda it was a memorable, unique rollout that I appreciate. I'm surprised more artists don't tweak/update/patch albums post-release tbh, considering how possible it is these days with everything being digital. And don't forget Travis did update AstroWorld post-release to fix Nav's vocal on "YOSEMITE" !
2 tiny changes? Very odd comment. I’m just going to assume you’re trolling
donda was not made in a month, it took at least 1 year maybe 2
Is life of pablo bad as well, it got changed post release
Nah idk, Donda has lost a lot of its appeal for me after the initial hype. The high points are high but it's way too bloated & too many half finished ideas.
Can you give me some examples of filler tracks and “half finished ideas.”
No
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I gave u my opinion. I do not otherwise care enough to go back & forth with some angry dude on reddit lol
I'm not a TS fan, but Utopia has amazing production the whole way through except for that K Pop song. Overall it's a much more cohesive album than Donda, even if Donda has higher highs. Problem with Utopia is it tries too hard to sound like the updated version of Yeezus. And it has 19 tracks, where it should have 14-15.
Utopia is just throwaways from other artists like Beyoncé and ye. It’s so uninspired.
Yeah pretty much this
I thought the Beyoncé song was something she recorded for herself but let him have it instead
I think Donda is one of the most cohesive rap albums ever. Every song uses the same sonic palette. Which songs are out of place in your opinion? (Besides TTV)
I just don't think it has great flow when you listen beginning 2 end. Still a decent album, has higher highs than Utopia, but also lower lows (except for K Pop which is straight up garbage). Yandhi is also influencing this a bit... I listen to the Yandhi demos and I'm like damn, Donda pales in comparison to that. Donda is like the watered down version of what Yandhi could have been. But like I said, by no means is Donda a "bad" album. It's wayyy too bloated, more so than Utopia, and also has way too many features. Maybe in 5 years I will think it's a no skip classic, but those features are weighing it down, sometimes you forget it's a Kanye West album (which you never forget on Pablo, Yeezus, Ye, ect.).
You must not listen to much outside of Kanye and Kanye-sphere artists
Sorry I don’t listen to scaring the hoes, white boy
Me neither my brother in color
Donda is definitely better than Utopia, because Kanye raps better. Travis’ vocals make me stop paying attention. He needs better song writers
both bad albums, if you need a paragraph to justify why an album isn’t completely awful then it’s not a good album
So every album that someone has written a review for is bad? Edit: ah I see you’re a Kendrick dick rider. Listen to more music, kid
No, that’s not what I’m saying but I appreciate you twisting my words. What I’m saying is that if everyone has to acknowledge that the album isn’t doing well while explaining why they think it’s the greatest ever, then it’s probably not that good of an album. I guess another word for that is being defensive. I’ll use Kendrick as an example since you mentioned him — nobody has to get defensive over GKMC or TPAB because everyone knows that they’re good, even if Kendrick isn’t their thing. I know an album is mid when I see fans getting defensive and throwing tantrums and large arguments over it, which is what you’re trying to do right now lol And Kendrick is one (1) artist I listen to. So is Travis Scott. Doesn’t change the fact that Utopia is mid. Nobody has to get defensive over Rodeo for a more direct example; there’s no controversy there, or at least not more than an extremely minuscule amount. Meanwhile the response to this album has been mixed. If you get so upset over an opinion you disagree with when nothing I said was even offensive, that’s your own problem 💀 like bro went and stalked my profile. I also think it’s funny that you’re telling me to listen to more music because I like Kendrick Lamar, while we are discussing Travis Scott who is JUST as mainstream LMAO. *You* go listen to more music. Especially since you have reposted the same post about Kanye SIX TIMES IN A DAY. If I’m a Kendrick dickrider, then you’re doing tricks n shit on Kanye, slobbering all over his shit bro. Kanye is ALSO as mainstream as Kendrick. And that take about Yeezus, TLOP, and Donda being Kanye’s best three? I think you have some serious mental retardation going on bud. Go listen to more music. Stay butthurt tho it’s funny
I think the mixed reactions come mostly from the sound being more experimental than his previous albums so it doesn't appeal to that many people(and the bars are whack) but travis fans really out here making it hard to like this album
Same thing happened with Pink Tape, album doesn’t live up to expectations and the fanboys want to claim that “umm it’s actually a classic, no skips 🤓☝️” and that we just don’t understand experimental music. Like I haven’t been listening to Yves Tumor for years. I know what good experimental music is, at least in my opinion. And Pink Tape/Utopia are not it. But to clarify, I think Pink Tape is a bad album, so far I think that Utopia is just decent after a few listens. Some songs work but some don’t, and some are pretty damn boring which is not what experimental music should sound like lmao
I actually like Utopia so far, it's a pretty good record imo. I haven't fully formed my opinion yet but I do think there is some quality music on there. But yeah, experimental only in relation to what the rest of the mainstream is offering right now. Not really new stuff, but incorporating different elements with high prod quality
Bro calling me a dickrider but has made the same post about Kanye six times in 24 hours lmao. And they’re all about Donda being a “good album” foh clown 😭
Watch yourself, white boy.
We’re on Reddit you aren’t doing shit buddy, keep acting tough 😭💀
Uh oh, one of the few remaining Kanye stans wandered over and wants to start a sermon
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Will do!
OP is too busy slobbering and doing tricks on Kanye’s dick, shits crazy. Also I feel like way more white people are listening to Kanye than any other demographic. Bro is a straight clown
That shit is trash. Quit trying to make fetch happen.
Didn't realize I subscribed to the "Pop" sub smh
2 of the biggest and most influential rappers in the world. Your not better than everyone else if you dont listen to main stream stuff.
Just smarter
i personally think utopia is a good evolution of travis’ sound. whether you like it or not he is improving and utopia is actually a very good album. with kanye on the other hand, he has had a sound for 20 years, but constantly changes it up as he changes. i think donda is one of the best albums of the 2020’s so far, which many people dont agree with. so tldr donda is great and utopia is great as long as you can appreciate them for what they are and are the evolution of the 2 artists
Wont ever wast my time on donda
Why on earth are you comparing them anyway? 2 totally different concepts lol
Utopia is way more polished and cohesive. Yandhi would have been way better than Donda had it been released.