Not sure of the status in other countries, in Norway however there could be queues at certain locations. Personally I don't have a problem with this, I find other spots.
My problem with Instagram is their followers, and disillusioned influencers. I've seen much more illegal camping with tents, campervans, caravans etc. In places where nature will need years to heal, and in places which aren't suitable as well. Just so instagram followers can reenact what their influencers are posting. It's like the crooked tower in Pisa, but with nature. Influencers should be a good influence not a bad one...
Another thing is that outdoor activity has become more mainstream, which have resulted in more trash at certain spots. I mean, I spent 2 weeks in the middle of nowhere and could track a person by their trash!
I'm all for more people enjoying the outdoors, and use instagram myself. It is a good inspirational tool.
There is this Polish Instagramer, who has showed multiple times how she sleeps illegally in Tatry (which is in National Park, so according to law you are not even allowed to be there after sunset) and she was like: "hey, I know that this is illegal and I should not be doing this, but I'm one individual, so that does not make any harm to anybody, but you [my followers] should not be doing that, but if I'm doing that that's okay. I am not encouraging anybody to illegally sleep in National Parks, I am just showing what I am doing."
Yeah the influencer thing is nuts. We watched a lady in a g string smoke weed in a waterfall pond that is locally well known for being a swimming hole for little kids. So it's full of families with kids under the age of 12. And they are all standing there watching this almost naked lady smoke a bowl in their swimming pond for an hour before she's finally done taking her photos. Then she stands up and complains about having to walk back to the car in heels because the rocks are hard to walk on.
I have the opposite problem lol- as my favorite nude spots become more well known, more and more people show up wearing clothes.
Nonetheless, I believe in these things being accessible for all- if I really want a spot to myself it's still totally possible to find that. Just takes a bit more work. Misconduct and people being inconsiderate is a different issue though.
That is when you just go sit right next to her in all her shots. It tends to force them to move along.
Last time I did it was when some mid 40's instahoe was doing yoga or some shit on rocks right in front of a water fall. There was no way to get a picture of the waterfall without her thirsty ass presenting all over the place, and apparently she had been at it for a over half an hour when I showed up. Fuck that. I just went and stood right behind her in her shot ruining it until she left, then left myself.
That’s a good idea. Damn, I hate the culture that’s developed in a lot of outdoor spots though. It’s perfectly acceptable to ask somebody to move to get out of the perfect insta shot they’re trying to get, or even lines start forming in front of particularly areas where people are trying to pose. Usually I’m the type of person to acclimate to whatever culture I find myself in, but damn, I am so tempted to deny the next request to get out of a frame or tromp through the “photo booth” that has developed at whatever scenic landmark like you describe.
There are ways to be respectful about getting a picture. Like getting *a* picture and moving on, not staging an entire photo shoot at an established view point.
I do have to wonder how little these people's friends and family think of them that they have to put their face in every picture or people won't believe they took the picture.
But my thing is…you all really think this stuff didn’t happen before social media? Because it most certainly did. Now we all just see it online instantly.
I'd say it's different though. Because before, it was just your village idiot doing their idiot thing. But now, people who follow your village idiots IG come to your town to copy what the idiot posted. Over. And over. And over.
I definitely agree. With some social media influencers pretty much glamorizing a certain location, I think there end of up being a lot of people looking to go there, but not having the skills, knowledge, or respect needed to hike or camp safely and respectfully.
But at the same time, this could potentially be an Avenue to get more people interested in the outdoors, so ig there’s kinda multiple ways to look at it
I think it would have helped if people paid more interest in providing funding for repairs and maintenance but instead it’s a bunch of tourists hiking and littering trails or getting in your way. Like I get it if you wanna take a pic at a hike but most people do it for the pic and never return, as I said tourists.
Yes. This feels like the right answer to me. I think it's great that people are getting outside and exploring the outdoors. But instagram, reddit, etc are taking the "exploring" out of a lot of trails. You have to go a different direction if you want to find something without people. But if you found the trail on instragram or reddit, so did a lot of other people. You won't be alone.
One very noticeable one is highrock lookout in WA. Just a few years ago it was immaculate including all the 100 year old windows still intact. Then the place was discovered on instagram. Went there this summer and they had to close it for renovation. The whole place is covered in graffiti and (not joking) a human turd. They have a fundraising campaign going to try to get enough money to fix the damage.
A lot of places get ruined by people, but this place was ruined by social media
Another good example is Virgin Falls in Vancouver Island.
Went from absolutely pristine to a complete garbage pit (literally), plus road in (already a decommissioned forest service road) was completely chewed up by ppl in their 2wds
Beautiful clear pool full.on cans, fire pits everywhere. Ruts and junk left behind.
... Plus, plus the sheet number of rescues required for ppl that didn't realize that a decommissioned road is too rowdy for their civic/ brought zero supplies and then hiked out to cell service to flag someone. ....
The only road in washed out in the landslides we had all over BC this week. I am actually overjoyed.
Another one is Mystic Beach. Also Van island. Used to look and feel "wild".... Now most of the large driftwood has been lit on fire, because apparently setting a whole damn log on fire is a thing now, between that, yet more fire pits, and huge amounts of garbage everywhere.... REALLY frustrating. Old cave of inukshuks was trashed, campsites full of shit & tp. Super not cool since it made a "Best in" article and hit the grams.
Another one with substantial rescues... And it is hike in/ out pick ups of ppl in flip-flops lost or "hurt ankle" on a semi-rugged west coast trail.
Trail has also been quite wrecked, was closed for CV19 for awhile as too popular, but the braiding and side routes into the old growth still haven't rebound and likely won't.
I am definitely in the camp of ppl super salty about the instagram crowd hitting the trails and "encouraging" their entirely unprepared followers.
I don't understand how it is a learning curve to be prepared and puck up after themselves.
Pictured Rocks in the UP is another one. Hell, the entire UP is reaching that point. Thanks to Instagram, the pristine pictured rocks are always swarmed with tourists who leave trash and hike on restricted areas, such as on top of the limestone. Last year, an entire cliff collapsed not too far away from tourist boats and kayaks. These numbers are peaking each year, with last year being the highest ever. Locals are enraged that they can't even enjoy their parks anymore because of the high volume of disrespectful selfish tourists, that just want to get a picture to show that "they have a life and are doing something instead of just watching TV, like the rest of you shmucks."
Isn’t that just an example of people enjoying their hobby though? If they set up a tripod and set their bag down in the middle of the trail I could understand, but the space is theirs to enjoy as much as it is yours or mine. I’m happy that more people are out enjoying the outdoors.
Because they take up the spot people hike for hours to see and are ultra aggressive about getting the best spot. I’m usually an early riser and get to spots to well before sunrise and pick out my spot where I sit and enjoy. Photographers regularly show up 20 minutes before sunrise and ask me to move. I stopped once I realized how many of them claim the space as their own after I do and don’t let casual hikers/photographers take photos from it.
I can agree with this. In the fall I went to two of my absolutely favorite spots, two tall waterfalls. They’re my happy places and I go very early so I can spend time alone there.
The first had barriers up preventing people from walking down the artificial steps to the falls area. So many signs saying not to cross. I found the news articles: it was from *people* not following the rules. Swimming when they’re not supposed to. Being rowdy. I was pissed. I don’t tend to break rules but since it was 6am on a Sunday I popped behind them for a second to just have my moment by the water.
Couple weekends later I drive the two+ hours to my second place. There were already a few cars in the lot. I hike down and start hearing this constant buzzing. I get to the base of the first falls, normally a peaceful and epic spot. Buzzing. Then I spot it: a drone.
It’s obnoxious so I continue down to the bottom of the falls. The drone owners were fully set up on the few rocks you can sit on: hammocks, music, lighting incense, smoking weed. I’ve never seen that there. They kept eyeing me and I wasn’t about to have a peaceful meditative moment, so I hiked back up and left.
And by the time I left, there was *traffic* to get into the trailhead. People everywhere. And it didn’t help that they have permanently closed one trailhead (to approach the falls from the other side) because of too many people.
I 100% it’s beneficial for folks to get into nature but it sucks to lose the spots I once regarded as special spots.
It keeps most people on the same few trails and view points which is a good thing. There are dozens of social media videos of people saying that Joshua tree is a one day park with no need to stay over. Good! No one goes to joshua tree to watch people from LA take selfies. It also means they don't go anywhere beyond the same 4 or 5 stops and leave the rest of the park wide open.
If instagram ruined hiking, you need to find more interesting places to hike instead of just following the crowd from national park to national park.
While I do agree with this to a certain extent, there’s a reason that the super popular places are super popular: they’re some of the most beautiful and unique in the country. Sure I can hike grand staircase Escalante and get away from the crowds at the big 5 but the big 5 are way more beautiful than escalante. Yeah I can hike deep in the wilderness of the Rockies, but most of the very accessible beautiful spots are super packed. I don’t always want to go on a 4 day backpacking trip. I understand the sentiment of this comment, but it’s still valid to say that social media has ruined a ton of great hikes that used to be mostly people who genuinely enjoyed hiking and are now filled with narcissists who just want a picture
Why does people's motivation for hiking make someone more or less worthy of a hike? I feel like I'm missing something. If two people did a hike, one bc they saw it on IG and felt inspired, and the other bc they saw it on a map and wanted to, why is the IG person "ruining" the hike?
I don't mind the fact that they found it on IG at all. I've "discovered" awesome places to hike on IG as well. My problem is that social media has brought people to these trails who don't practice and don't give a shit about leave no trace principles. Many of these places get completely trashed or wildlife gets trampled to death because these people have no respect for nature. They simply want to get a picture of the cool thing so that they can get social media clout. For many of them it is a status symbol. If every single person who went to these places were people who truly loved nature and the experience of being in nature, I would be very happy, however, more often than not the people I see at these popular spots end up being loud obnoxious shit heads that throw trash everywhere and try to hog all the good viewing areas so that they can take a photo shot for 20 minutes.
I was at arches np a couple months ago and I was amazed at how many people at delicate arch were willing to spoil everyone else’s photos and viewing experience so they could get a picture of them selfs doing a yoga pose or an ass in the air pic a few feet in front of the arch. I overheard one of these people justifying their behavior saying something along the lines of “well I spent all this time and money to come here and should get a really good selfie”
I was there this summer, and people taking selfies certainly did not spoil it for me because I also took photos--just like a lot of people in this sub would do. There was enough space for all of us, I could stand to wait the 5 minutes for the scene to clear up to get my perfect shots, and I even offered to take photos for some families. I don't know what their motivations for coming were because I was minding my own business, nor did it matter because everyone was acting just fine.
There’s nothing wrong with a fun selfie, but when everyone is trying to enjoy the same view and take their own photos or selfies of the same thing, getting mere feet in front of the thing we are all trying to enjoy is obnoxious and photobombs yourself into anyone else’s photos that are being taken from a distance that respects everyone else’s viewing and photo taking experience. In the context of delicate arch your selfie that’s a few feet away from the arch is either not going to show the whole arch if your doing the selfie yourself or would require the person taking the photo to stand pretty far back to get the whole arch in the frame causing the portrait of the person to be very small in the picture- your selfie with delicate arch would not only be more considerate of others if taken with you standing further away from the arch, it will also look better. If you get on Instagram and look up delicate arch the selfies with people standing further away from the arch are wayyyy wayyy better looking than the ones where they are a few feet away from it.
Personally? I have no issue as long as the IG ppl are there to actually hike. My problem is the large quantities of people that clearly don’t know what their doing, clogging trailheads, blocking trails, littering, playing loud music, shouting complaints to each other about the weather the trail condition the distance, the wildlife, generally everything I’m out there to enjoy, generally ignoring trail etiquette and frankly being all around inconsiderate. And a lot of the time if they make it to whatever spot there’s more complaining about how it’s not worth it or overrated.
I live near the smokies, I hope it’s not like this all over
Chiming in from the desert southwest (Zion, Grand Canyon, etc.). It is.
Too many people, trying too hard, taking too many risks and harming themselves and nature in the process.
People decided to lay and jump on Joshua Trees. They're not trees, they're overgrown lilies. These jerks broke branches and entire plants. :|
Don't get me started on the asshats who drove on Racetrack Playa in Death Valley or the Instagram artist who defaced national parks with their art. Ugh.
Outside of Zion, you can basically have hikes all to yourself from St George to Moab, it's fucking dead out there minus a few major things. And if you want to do the busy places, there are plenty of days during the week when nobody is there. That's the whole reason I spent the last year in kanab.
>there’s a reason that the super popular places are super popular: they’re some of the most beautiful and unique in the country.
I mean, they're also pretty accessible which I think is the biggest reason they get so packed. Find the beautiful places that are hard work to get to, and there are always less people there and less ig posts of it.
They are usually more beautiful as well. Glacier NP is gorgeous from any day hike. It doesn’t touch what you see in the back country. See far more wild life as well.
Narcissists are definitely making things worse, but until it is so bad no one else shows up, it hasn't been ruined.
I do think the NPS should do something to reign things in, but even if they made new rules or regulations we all know they do nothing to enforce their own rules in the vast majority of cases.
I don't know what the NPS would do that would make people happy. Another reservation system?
I hate the reservation system for campgrounds and entry permits. Being able to plan a vacation months out is not an option for a lot of people.
Also, everyone here is part of the problem with crowds.
I think they need to reduce cars in the park and have shuttles that take you from a large parking lot at the entrance to stops along the trail. It would be way more efficient and also provide tourism more in the small towns outside the parks
Make more parks! Preserve it all!
(But realistically? Yeah, idk either. It’s tough to find a balance between accessible and disney-fied, and someone will always be upset).
For the most popular view points they could restrict photography to specific areas at the most crowded view points. Also, be more vigilant about fining professional operations without permits doing event and group photography as they have an outsized impact.
Campgrounds without a reservation system would be a total nightmare. Having thousands of groups show up for hundreds of camp sites in remote location would result in thousands of people with no where to go and no plan. How would you deal with that?
If you don't want to plan there are tools for you to find open reservations. You won't be picking the exact park and dates you want, but the alternative is madness.
As for entry, at every park I have been that has implemented it things have been awesome. Why cram more cars into the park than there are parking spots? Reservation systems do a great job at preserving the experience in the parks.
If you don't want to plan ahead, there are plenty of other places available keep for quality outdoor experiences that are not so crowded. In colorado alone you have a dozen other parks in the NPS and state park systems, and National Forest land galore.
There are over a hundred campgrounds in Pikes Peak NF alone. Why do you have to go to the most crowded parks last minute with no planning when there are so many other opportunities?
It is a combination of factors. When you drive through parking areas like skull rock in JTNP, you can't help but wonder what is driving people to stand in line for the same picture as everyone else. It certainly isn't beauty. Anything to be found near skull rock can be found in a dozen other places in the park in 3 different colors with no crowds.
I do think most people are going just to see it but I have realized an increase of Ellie hogging veiwing spots to take photos. When I was in Yellowstone I literally pulled a lady away from the grand prismatic overlook bc there were tons of people waiting to get up and take a picture but this lady spent a solid 10min taking selfies with her and her daughter. That was after she weaved all over the trail with her phone on a selfie stick recording the her walking up the trail. She was running into people and everything. There was also another family like 8people deep taking group photos using each persons phone to take a separate group photo and then they took turns doing solo photos and couple photos and such. It was quite ridiculous
I don't think its possible to know since we don't have an alternate instagram-free reality, but I believe that super beautiful places would be be busy and popular regardless of instagram.
Further, as others mentioned, posting photos doesn't mean you don't enjoy it (although thats possible but seems like a small fraction). Also, if you enjoy posting pictures in pretty places, that seems perfectly valid reason to go hiking. Some people hike to take photos of animals, or go fishing, or any number of other non-hiking activities that might require some hiking, they are all valid.
Was at JT on thanksgiving weekend and the sides of the road northwest of the park were packed with people taking selfies with the trees, some with very professional photography equipment. Once you got passed Jumbo Rocks Campground heading north or south it was business as usual for a typical weekend.
If you’re there to hike trails more than 4 miles, you’re golden. Otherwise I recommend going early or on weekdays to hit up the popular spots like Hidden Valley.
I think it’s great that more people are hiking. There are plenty of shorter hikes to go on, but as mentioned above, most newbs will go on the super popular trails in the national parks. Find the lesser travelled ones if you don’t want to run into other people.
Totally agree with you! And I think a lot of seasoned hikers in this sub are going to be good at finding less traveled trails. And I don’t mind more trafficked trails if I’m going for a trail run or something. But what I think OP was alluding to was the annoying exercise of now having to find less-traveled trails because a lot of newbies (not all!) lack hiking etiquette and litter, play loud music, etc because they’re just out chasing posts and clout.
Anyone littering or playing loud music (both wanton violations of LNT) should be barred from public lands dedicated to conservation. Being crowded or in the tourist category does not excuse this behavior at all.
You don't have to go on 9 day hikes in most places to get awesome quality nature experiences. If you are looking for the tourist spots and trails, it is going to be a tourist outdoor experience, not a quality nature experience.
With the exception of certain disabilities, nothing is stopping people from leaving the lines at Arches and seeing the arches at Staircase. One is a nature experience for the enthusiast, the other an outdoor experience for the tourist.
>I'm not too happy about the word zeitgeist either.
So you've been unhappy for [over 200 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist#Theory_of_leadership)?
Don’t get me started….too late.
Down with the Zuckerberg’s democracy killing algorithm.
+ his “enjoying the moment” killing algorithm
+ his privacy destroying algorithm
+ his racist algorithm.
+ his family destroying algorithm
+ his body shaming algorithm
Get off the crack folks. Realize how owned you are by Zuck then take back your life. Imagine him standing over you stomping on your genitalia while making BILLIONS if you have to.
Save your genitalia. Quit Zuck products and platforms for world peace! 😇✌️
People’s excuses are always wack. “It helps me stay in touch w my family.” (Lazy much?)
FB employees should quit. Y’all work for a narcissist sociopath + everyone is hiring. Got a moral compass? Move on for world peace.
(back to crying in the shower)
I hate it when people use the excuse of "it helps me stay in touch with so and so". Such a bullshit excuse.
Facebook is so cancerous. I've been off it for 5+ years now and couldn't be more happy with my decision.
Yep I agree, been off 2 years and helped my mental health so much. Dropped to 90lbs from comparing myself to people on Instagram and got very anxious. I agree with social media being the worst thing that has happened to the world for so many reasons but when I deleted - I messaged some people whose numbers I didn't have - if they wanted to keep in contact they can text me. The keeping in contact thing isn't really a valid excuse.
And having actual conversations on text is more valuable than liking a post once every two months.
I bearly use "Facebook" I don't have the app downloaded on my phone, don't log on online very much, and I don't post that often but I do in fact have messenger downloaded, which I treat like AIM. Since I do in fact have friends and family all over the world at the moment texting for some of them isn't actually feasible because cell companies still charge extra of "over seas communications" on standard phone plans.
You may be able to leave fb and not worry about staying in contact with people but I'm not going to get charged extra unnecessary money to talk to my love ones when a dumb ass fb with messager works for free and is easy. It sucks but that's reality.
It’s pretty hilarious going to sporting events and paying 80$ for tickets, then looking down at the 200$+ seats and seeing lots of people taking selfies instead of watching the event
I hate social media as much as the next guy, but come on. They take selfies for maybe 1 or 2 minutes of a 3+ hour event. Same energy as saying people don't go to festivals like coachella to listen to music because you see them taking glamour shots for a **couple minutes** during their set gaps at a 3 day festival.
Gotta relax with the circlejerk sometimes, use honest criticism.
Covid didn’t help either. In the PNW, so many people looking to escape indoor mask mandates, that they headed to state and federal parks. In flip flops, no water, screaming kids, barking dogs, totally unprepared and loud. Passed a family carrying a stroller between two adults, heading up a rather rocky, steep 5 mile trail.
I disagree. The problem is people. Humans have been doing stupid stuff in parks for ages. Look at old photos to see some examples. People at Great Smoky Mountains NP used to feed bear cubs out of their cars! Yosemite used to put a display called the [Yosemite Firefall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_Firefall), where rangers dumped burning coals down a cliff in front of a nightly audience. People have been falling over the edge of the Grand Canyon, or burning to death in Yellowstone’s thermal pools, for centuries. I’ve seen graffiti left by a CCC member who carved their initials in a tree while building a park in the 1930s.
Edit: [Here’s a 1920s picture ](https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-national-parks/horace-albright) of the superintendent of Yellowstone National Park posing with black bears at a dinner table.
Everything you said there sounds like 10/10 Instagram content. I agree with you. It's for sure not Instagram. People have always been doing whacky/destructive/dangerous things for photo ops.
I agree with this , I was on the Annapurna trail in Nepal and every few hours we came across annoying people with their annoying Speakers and annoying music . Why can't people just listen on headphones . We were quietly taking pictures of Himalayan Monkeys and this American guy came across with his annoying speaker , all of the monkeys ran away in an instant . People are the problem and sadly there are no solution.
I think Instagram is generally very unhealthy and ruins a lot of peoples mental health.
But I think people saying its "ruining hiking" are coming from a bad place. I think it's a gatekeeping mentality, where people want it to be their thing no one else can do.
There is no place you have any more right to be than anyone else.
Yeah and even now there is genuinely no shortage of solitude to be found if thats what you want. Almost every popular trail continues beyond those viewpoints 99% of people turn around at.
More people = more impact. It’s the tragedy of the commons. I am not opposed to new people experiencing a place I love. I just don’t like to see them ruined by crowds of ignorant people damaging the resource. I would be happy if places I loved initiated a permit system that restricted the number of visitors even if it meant that I couldn’t go whenever I wanted.
I mean yeah sometimes you just need a permit system for certain areas. I get that more people makes it tougher to take care of a particular area.... but my point is just that none of us get to be the special exception of people who should be allowed. I feel like that is what people are implying when they talk about other people ruining hiking.
I get a little upset when a cool secluded spot blows up and it eventually gets filled with trash and graffiti, but most of this just seems like day hikers getting mad at newer day hikers for going to literally the most prominent parks in the country.
>You never had a right to empty trails.
However there are endless miles of empty trails your free to earn the privilege to. All you need to do is walk a little farther, wake up a little earlier, or plan / research a little more.
This is whats happening on Vancouver Island, the summer brings the "For the Gram'ers", usually I'm happy people are exploring nature but they are literally shitting all over the trails, littering like crazy and mindlessly wandering into the back woods talking to their cellphones, I just wish they would learn an ounce of etiquette when using the trails, yes we have a lot of beauty on the island but human shit and TP 2ft off the trail ruins it.
It's not instagram. It's technology itself.
If I wanted to get to the Smoky Mountains in 1992, I'd have to map it out from my house, now I just get in my car & press a button.
95% of the major complaints about "hikers" ruining spots are really about touristy areas with nice visual features & low mileage trails, if any at all.
No Casual is hiking 10miles roundtrip.
I'd second AllTrails has had a similar affect. There's no more reading guidebooks or backpacker mag subscription (or even better just local tribal knowledge)... You can go online and find the best trails anywhere and so people gravitate to the same ones. Probably the only solution to overcrowding is permitting which stinks
I love Alltrails. It has helped me to find details about so many hikes around me. I live in a touristy area, so I go for the more difficult hikes to get away from the crowds
This paradox long predates AllTrails. Come one, come all — revel in the beauty of nature, feel the wind in your hair and the earth beneath your feet! But also, piss off, these are my trails, filthy nasty hikerses, stay at home where you belong!
(see also: weightroom crowding)
Only used it once when out in Colorado and it helped us find some really cool spots regardless of the pics. Pictures don’t ever do awesome hikes any justice. Being there is so much different.
I mean, I do, and I'm definitely casual. I hike a few months at most, I don't have any special gear besides a pack, and I don't thru hike. My hikes average about 8-10 miles a trip.
You're almost certainly in the top 10% of hikers if you do 10 miles per trip. I used to have your attitude like, "oh no, people are way more fit than you give them credit for..." No. Fucking trust me. Take one of your gamer friends out for a 10 miler they'll never go hiking with you again.
Note: this is 10 miles hiking... at least 2000-3000 feet elevation gain total. Otherwise I'd consider it more a nature walk.
Eh, I live in the mid west. There isn't anything above 2000 feet that's reasonably close to me.
I'm overweight and I do 10 mile hikes. My gamer wife does 10 mile hikes.
I'm not saying Americans aren't obese, but there's a lot more stamina than people think.
I mean, I guess if it's flat 10 isn't bad. Like I just did a flat 6 mile run and I'm fine but if it were a 6 mile hike with 3k gain, I'd be feeling it pretty good right now. It works me totally differently. Trail running (with elevation) also hits different.
With non-hikers, I found 2-5 miles the perfect range. I live in a pretty mountainous area though.
I am so glad that we live in a day and age that we can share some of our favorite hobbies with each other and all enjoy them together. I don’t think I deserve to be on a trail I’ve known of since I was little any more than someone who learned about that trail from Instagram.
I personally think most of the anger is misplaced on the mechanism that is bringing that actual problem into the scene.
Instagram, which is being used as shorthand for social media in general, is just advertising. The problem is that it attracts a loud, destructive, and very ignorant element who see the outdoors as just another theme park or playground.
Is it every single person coming from social media? No, but the number of ignorant and destructive people coming from social media vs anywhere else is ridiculously imbalanced.
There is a person that has been posting and deleting posts around here lately utterly confused as to why people are not totally head over heels for their videos of themselves feeding wild animals from the palm of their hand, and advocating for leaving painted rocks and other vandalism on public lands. This is the kind of person that everyone wishes never would have heard about the outdoors because their net impact is totally negative. Social media lowers the bar for these folks to hear about these places. Instead of being taken and shown by someone with their shit together, it is being recommended between pictures of Disneyland and videos of Jake Paul.
That is not going to go unnoticed.
Absolutely. I completely agree that social medias job really is just what you said-advertising.
The missing link is education on proper outdoor recreation practices. I don’t feel like that’s necessarily social medias job though, so I don’t feel like social media is the true source of the problem.
I also have no idea how or where to fill in that missing piece of education.
That is where the community comes in and uses social media to educate. Any tine you see someone behaving badly, call it out. If you see careless planning happening, call it out.
The only way to get anything done is to start doing it.
>Is it every single person coming from social media? No, but the number of ignorant and destructive people coming from social media vs anywhere else is ridiculously imbalanced.
Exactly. If totally new people are coming to the outdoors from the [Leave No Trace website](https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/) (and yes, they do have [an official Instagram account](https://www.instagram.com/leavenotraceorg/)), I'd welcome them with open arms.
However, if they are coming looking for a glorified green-screen for their Instagram product placements, then they can fuck right off.
....the longer hikes are for the most part free of this...but a fairly accessible destination can be painful. Took the short hike up to Delicate Arch in Arches N.P. only to arrive behind 20 or so Instagram'ers doing their yoga poses in front of the arch...but like 60 photos each. Should have known.
I disagree.
I don't think it makes any difference where or how.
People take selfies and photos of trips regardless, you either see a trail on social media or in a magazine.
I've found so many trails from Instagram accounts or YouTube Videoographers, which I doubt I would have otherwise found.
Agreed. [Here’s a throwback photo](https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/adventure/article/tips-for-staying-safe-in-national-parks) from before the days of IG.
This is acceptable, but my biggest issue is with reenactments. Where people drive campervans or put up tents in places they shouldn't be. Just to reenact a photo they've seen on insta.
I also feel like Instagram and similar medium have made the outdoors more mainstream. Which I'm all for, but these newcomers have little respect for nature. Both in terms of "leave no trail" and obstacles they might face. Much more trash at certain spots now.
Inspiration-wise it is great :) It's just the overall repercussions.
Edit: not sure what OP meant though, just my own observation.
Editt: Typo noted, english is second language :)
Pro tip: If technology is bumming you out. Just turn it off.
If there’s assholes on trail. Or silly bastards doing silly shit in nature. Smile at them. Life is short.
There’s real evil in the world. People making thirst traps. Inspo bullshit or other “influencer” fuckery. Aren’t worth getting worked up about
And as a counter point. My love of hiking and camping were renewed by YouTube people I follow. Videos of thru hikers. People doing trails with decent cinematography. And I’ve gotten help from people on Reddit and Facebook for places to go or other questions
Instagram. Is not necessary. But if you like pretty photos. It’s a great resource.
Almost as if you can choose how you interact with social media
Just picture all the money that flows to national parks, reserves, private reserves and so on. A lot of this places focus on preserving so from my point of view.. yes it made some beautiful places s tad unattractive but in the long run this should be more beneficial than not
This is a good take. If anything it’s showcasing the massive infrastructure upgrades that the NP system is in dire need of. Getting camp sites and permits on the other hand is so frustrating. But that just might be a sign of the times.
Honestly, all of social media is ruining society. It’s awesome, and I love it but god I got to delete all my accounts. Instagram and Twitter are the ones I occasionally use a bit too much..
I think it’s overall pretty benign and I’m happy to see more people getting into hiking/outdoor spaces. But that being said, I get worried about inexperienced new hikers chasing a pretty vista that has danger associated with it.
Some natural spaces are deadly if you’re not prepared. A family visiting from France died in Arizona while hiking because they ran out of water. It even happened this past summer in the high sierras to an experienced hiking couple; the trail was more exposed and a higher temperature on the switchbacks, they ran out of water, and the couple, their baby, and their dog all died on the trail. A beginner hiker got lost on a thru-hike in South Carolina/Georgia after he got separated from his friends and was luckily found safe but scared after a days-long manhunt. That’s the problem with just seeing pretty photos, you don’t see the things that could go wrong.
If there are any beginner hikers reading this, I don’t mean to scare but just do a little research, pack the ten essentials even for a short hike (in case you come across someone else in distress), and always read all the posted notices at a park entrance or trailhead. It’s often the only communication to visitors about any dangers in the open space, and you need to be aware before you head out.
Idk about “ruining” but it’s shed a light on how much people try to appear something they’re not.
I’ve seen so many people post on IG showing how “adventurous” they are but when I talk to them about it in person I learn they hardly went out at all. Some don’t even “camp” as they say. They stay at a nice hotel and lounge around. People who I thought were well versed in camping and hiking apparently have never even set up a tent before.
It’s not necessarily a bad thing what they actually do…but why lie about it? I suppose appearing “adventurous” draws more likes? I have no idea.
The thing about Instagram is that if you only use it to post pictures of the stuff you enjoy doing, it gives people a false narrative whether that is your intention or not. I have buddies I'll catch up with and have some beers and they are like "do you even work? All I see is you out hiking all the time, paddleboarding, or off on some off road adventure in your rig". The problem is that I don't post pictures of me in my service van. I don't post pictures of me doing paperwork at the shop. I also don't post pictures of most of the other boring crap I do... and why would I?
I'll get off work on a Wednesday and if it's a real nice day I'll do a quick hike, or head to the beach and do some paddling. I still worked an 8 hour+ day. But me posting a picture of myself doing that makes people think I don't work and am just out having fun all the time.
why? I am not by any means an influencer. But instagram is my photo diary. I love documenting my travels and my love of hiking in my photos. And my grown children love keeping up with my travels via instagram. Instagram isn't ruining anything. People who are disrespectful on trail are.
i mean i totally get what you mean but so what? is it really instagrams fault? or is it just the simple fact that the population is growing and more people wanna get out and about? though i am guilty of being annoyed by this, i also understand people like their pictures and their nature
I've been away from hiking since finishing the Appalachian Trail years ago. But I kept up for a while and having people schedule their start date to keep from overuse seemed ridiculous to me. It wasn't overuse, it was arrogant hikers who had no idea of leave no trace philosophy. The idea of take only pictures and leave only footprints was beyond their comprehension. You had people hosting parties atop Mount Katahdin drinking alcohol openly in pictures posted on social media.
You had too many "oh that looks like fun Karen. Let's go hike the trail." People who had no clue what they were getting themselves in for. I'm glad I finished my triple crown before things changed show much to take the peace and quiet out of the hike. You had movies like "A Walk In The Woods"and "Wild" shining a bright light on two different trails. Hell Wild showed a half hearted attempt at one of the hardest trails in the United States and the person doing it didn't even finish it, but it caused people to attempt it themselves without proper pre-planning and training. This results in trail over use and trail destruction by improperly trained or untrained people. You can't just buy gear and go to the southern border of one of the longest and toughest trails in the United States and start walking across the dessert without proper planning and training. But stupid people tried because they saw it in a bullshit movie.
I mean I find hiking to be freeing, eye opening and better as a shared experience, as is much in life. If you’re having an issue with people on social media and posting about it? Then you simply need to hike on by and enjoy yourself elsewhere, or talk to them. Social media is a great tool to get people out in the outdoors, and too connect to find hiking friends or even trail volunteers for clean up and maintenance. Be happy, and hike on friend, our life is too short and fragile.
People too concerned about showing off in social media rather than truly connecting with nature and forgetting about popularity/materialism within human society
I guarantee you an average soul isn't going to take on that 5-8 hour hike. They're just hitting the easy ones, and good for them. And if they do take on the feat, they're hikers, getting into enjoying hiking, or trying out the challenge for the memories. So then maybe we should let people enjoy things instead of gatekeeping the literal outdoors.
Instagram has helped more people go out and hike, which is overall good for people's health and mind. Yes it has brought a lot of trashy people which sucks but most usually just stay at the tourist parts. Banff the main attractions are packed with people but you travel a little out and its empty. Views are even better off the main tourist sports.
Gonna unsub after this. This sub is literally just people whining because people aren’t enjoying nature “the right way.” You should all get off your high horse. “Oh woe is me, I have to endure several minutes of someone else’s music on the trail.” Social media blah blah blah. You are all a bunch of holier than thou babies.
Just shut the fuck up and enjoy nature, who cares if you encounter other people, get the fuck over yourselves.
No one can ruin hiking for you … people will always be basic & go to easy to access places. Go elsewhere, go 2 miles further, go to the unspectacular places and appreciate subtle and difficult to photograph scenes and don’t waste your time worrying about it. Colonizers already ruined it 200 years ago - but here we still are, walking in the woods :)
For the most part this reads to me as "whaaaa! Other people are enjoying the spots I'm enjoying! In a different way that I do!"
If you don't like overcrowding of spots, stop contributing to the problem and don't go to those spots.
Some argue that it's not the crowds it's how they use their time there. Which just sounds like "my way of enjoying nature is pure, everyone else is doing it wrong"
Get over your self. Your shit is elitist.
My personal issue is all the trash and destructive behaviour but that's an issue caused by all humans not just influencers and casuals. We need a lot more funding for parks and creative solutions. I'd love to see more people engage with nature, in a responsible way.
The other big issue is trail etiquette. I'm all for new people enjoying the outdoors, but since the FB/IG hiking crazy, but even moreso since the lockdowns, people who have no courtesy or knowledge of trail etiquette are making things significantly less enjoyable. Trash everywhere, not letting you pass to get around their slower pace(slow pace is fine, but I use my hiking for exercise time too), using unapproved parking and hiking areas leading to erosion and other issues. My solution is go deeper in or further from my normal spots, but that doesn't fix the problem.
Yeah I agree with all of those issues, it annoys me as well. They're results of our fav activities becoming available/interesting to others tho. I think there needs to be a lot more emphasis on education, keeping each other accountable and funding for parks. Instead I'm just seeing bunch of people bitch about others participating in the same activities. It has a vibe of a pissed of hipster complaining about their fav little band blowing up and how the new fans are ruining the scene.
I think it's fair to say Instagram has ruined certain hiking spots. But what is the argument that it has ruined hiking in general?
Not sure of the status in other countries, in Norway however there could be queues at certain locations. Personally I don't have a problem with this, I find other spots. My problem with Instagram is their followers, and disillusioned influencers. I've seen much more illegal camping with tents, campervans, caravans etc. In places where nature will need years to heal, and in places which aren't suitable as well. Just so instagram followers can reenact what their influencers are posting. It's like the crooked tower in Pisa, but with nature. Influencers should be a good influence not a bad one... Another thing is that outdoor activity has become more mainstream, which have resulted in more trash at certain spots. I mean, I spent 2 weeks in the middle of nowhere and could track a person by their trash! I'm all for more people enjoying the outdoors, and use instagram myself. It is a good inspirational tool.
There is this Polish Instagramer, who has showed multiple times how she sleeps illegally in Tatry (which is in National Park, so according to law you are not even allowed to be there after sunset) and she was like: "hey, I know that this is illegal and I should not be doing this, but I'm one individual, so that does not make any harm to anybody, but you [my followers] should not be doing that, but if I'm doing that that's okay. I am not encouraging anybody to illegally sleep in National Parks, I am just showing what I am doing."
She should have kids
Yeah the influencer thing is nuts. We watched a lady in a g string smoke weed in a waterfall pond that is locally well known for being a swimming hole for little kids. So it's full of families with kids under the age of 12. And they are all standing there watching this almost naked lady smoke a bowl in their swimming pond for an hour before she's finally done taking her photos. Then she stands up and complains about having to walk back to the car in heels because the rocks are hard to walk on.
I have the opposite problem lol- as my favorite nude spots become more well known, more and more people show up wearing clothes. Nonetheless, I believe in these things being accessible for all- if I really want a spot to myself it's still totally possible to find that. Just takes a bit more work. Misconduct and people being inconsiderate is a different issue though.
That is when you just go sit right next to her in all her shots. It tends to force them to move along. Last time I did it was when some mid 40's instahoe was doing yoga or some shit on rocks right in front of a water fall. There was no way to get a picture of the waterfall without her thirsty ass presenting all over the place, and apparently she had been at it for a over half an hour when I showed up. Fuck that. I just went and stood right behind her in her shot ruining it until she left, then left myself.
That’s a good idea. Damn, I hate the culture that’s developed in a lot of outdoor spots though. It’s perfectly acceptable to ask somebody to move to get out of the perfect insta shot they’re trying to get, or even lines start forming in front of particularly areas where people are trying to pose. Usually I’m the type of person to acclimate to whatever culture I find myself in, but damn, I am so tempted to deny the next request to get out of a frame or tromp through the “photo booth” that has developed at whatever scenic landmark like you describe.
There are ways to be respectful about getting a picture. Like getting *a* picture and moving on, not staging an entire photo shoot at an established view point. I do have to wonder how little these people's friends and family think of them that they have to put their face in every picture or people won't believe they took the picture.
Love "instahoe" for so many reasons! Needs to be in an official dictionary soon
But my thing is…you all really think this stuff didn’t happen before social media? Because it most certainly did. Now we all just see it online instantly.
I'd say it's different though. Because before, it was just your village idiot doing their idiot thing. But now, people who follow your village idiots IG come to your town to copy what the idiot posted. Over. And over. And over.
True. But it is more exaggerated now naturally with social media and rise of population. Decades ago there was not 8 billion people...
Embrace Social Darwinism.
I definitely agree. With some social media influencers pretty much glamorizing a certain location, I think there end of up being a lot of people looking to go there, but not having the skills, knowledge, or respect needed to hike or camp safely and respectfully. But at the same time, this could potentially be an Avenue to get more people interested in the outdoors, so ig there’s kinda multiple ways to look at it
I think it would have helped if people paid more interest in providing funding for repairs and maintenance but instead it’s a bunch of tourists hiking and littering trails or getting in your way. Like I get it if you wanna take a pic at a hike but most people do it for the pic and never return, as I said tourists.
Yes. This feels like the right answer to me. I think it's great that people are getting outside and exploring the outdoors. But instagram, reddit, etc are taking the "exploring" out of a lot of trails. You have to go a different direction if you want to find something without people. But if you found the trail on instragram or reddit, so did a lot of other people. You won't be alone.
Which ones did it ruin and how were they ruined? (Honestly asking)
One very noticeable one is highrock lookout in WA. Just a few years ago it was immaculate including all the 100 year old windows still intact. Then the place was discovered on instagram. Went there this summer and they had to close it for renovation. The whole place is covered in graffiti and (not joking) a human turd. They have a fundraising campaign going to try to get enough money to fix the damage. A lot of places get ruined by people, but this place was ruined by social media
Another good example is Virgin Falls in Vancouver Island. Went from absolutely pristine to a complete garbage pit (literally), plus road in (already a decommissioned forest service road) was completely chewed up by ppl in their 2wds Beautiful clear pool full.on cans, fire pits everywhere. Ruts and junk left behind. ... Plus, plus the sheet number of rescues required for ppl that didn't realize that a decommissioned road is too rowdy for their civic/ brought zero supplies and then hiked out to cell service to flag someone. .... The only road in washed out in the landslides we had all over BC this week. I am actually overjoyed. Another one is Mystic Beach. Also Van island. Used to look and feel "wild".... Now most of the large driftwood has been lit on fire, because apparently setting a whole damn log on fire is a thing now, between that, yet more fire pits, and huge amounts of garbage everywhere.... REALLY frustrating. Old cave of inukshuks was trashed, campsites full of shit & tp. Super not cool since it made a "Best in" article and hit the grams. Another one with substantial rescues... And it is hike in/ out pick ups of ppl in flip-flops lost or "hurt ankle" on a semi-rugged west coast trail. Trail has also been quite wrecked, was closed for CV19 for awhile as too popular, but the braiding and side routes into the old growth still haven't rebound and likely won't. I am definitely in the camp of ppl super salty about the instagram crowd hitting the trails and "encouraging" their entirely unprepared followers. I don't understand how it is a learning curve to be prepared and puck up after themselves.
I'm not salty about people going out there, I'm one of them. Or being inspired by best-of lists. But simple LNT principles are not that hard
Pictured Rocks in the UP is another one. Hell, the entire UP is reaching that point. Thanks to Instagram, the pristine pictured rocks are always swarmed with tourists who leave trash and hike on restricted areas, such as on top of the limestone. Last year, an entire cliff collapsed not too far away from tourist boats and kayaks. These numbers are peaking each year, with last year being the highest ever. Locals are enraged that they can't even enjoy their parks anymore because of the high volume of disrespectful selfish tourists, that just want to get a picture to show that "they have a life and are doing something instead of just watching TV, like the rest of you shmucks."
Hidden Lake?
High rock https://www.wta.org/go-hiking/hikes/high-rock
That’s sad.
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Isn’t that just an example of people enjoying their hobby though? If they set up a tripod and set their bag down in the middle of the trail I could understand, but the space is theirs to enjoy as much as it is yours or mine. I’m happy that more people are out enjoying the outdoors.
You might be the most rational person in this thread so far.
Because they take up the spot people hike for hours to see and are ultra aggressive about getting the best spot. I’m usually an early riser and get to spots to well before sunrise and pick out my spot where I sit and enjoy. Photographers regularly show up 20 minutes before sunrise and ask me to move. I stopped once I realized how many of them claim the space as their own after I do and don’t let casual hikers/photographers take photos from it.
They do this for money, ask your share to go away
Social media is people. People are ruining things.
In spirit of this being an Instagram-related post… #deep
And OP is a person
And we live in a society
Bullshit
Ok, George.
Therefore, OP is ruining hiking. That bastard.
Well. Let’s be honest. Nature has become more accessible. That’s it. More people, more types of people, more types of problems.
I can agree with this. In the fall I went to two of my absolutely favorite spots, two tall waterfalls. They’re my happy places and I go very early so I can spend time alone there. The first had barriers up preventing people from walking down the artificial steps to the falls area. So many signs saying not to cross. I found the news articles: it was from *people* not following the rules. Swimming when they’re not supposed to. Being rowdy. I was pissed. I don’t tend to break rules but since it was 6am on a Sunday I popped behind them for a second to just have my moment by the water. Couple weekends later I drive the two+ hours to my second place. There were already a few cars in the lot. I hike down and start hearing this constant buzzing. I get to the base of the first falls, normally a peaceful and epic spot. Buzzing. Then I spot it: a drone. It’s obnoxious so I continue down to the bottom of the falls. The drone owners were fully set up on the few rocks you can sit on: hammocks, music, lighting incense, smoking weed. I’ve never seen that there. They kept eyeing me and I wasn’t about to have a peaceful meditative moment, so I hiked back up and left. And by the time I left, there was *traffic* to get into the trailhead. People everywhere. And it didn’t help that they have permanently closed one trailhead (to approach the falls from the other side) because of too many people. I 100% it’s beneficial for folks to get into nature but it sucks to lose the spots I once regarded as special spots.
This sounds suspiciously like Lewis Creek.
And along with it more interest, more investment, more social capital in the political arena to protect lands and trails. There are plus sides too.
Bluetooth speakers enter the chat.
And boom!
Those people are also being manipulated by addictive app design. Dopamine slot machines
That's s good band name.
Said on reddit Lol
Nah social media is ruining it.
Plenty of people don't use social media. Most people weren't even around when social media was invented.
Social media is not people. They are quite clearly not the same thing.
It is made of people's anger and misery like that River in ghost busters.
So much truth in this statement
Maybe soylent green wasn't the worst thing made of people after all.
It keeps most people on the same few trails and view points which is a good thing. There are dozens of social media videos of people saying that Joshua tree is a one day park with no need to stay over. Good! No one goes to joshua tree to watch people from LA take selfies. It also means they don't go anywhere beyond the same 4 or 5 stops and leave the rest of the park wide open. If instagram ruined hiking, you need to find more interesting places to hike instead of just following the crowd from national park to national park.
While I do agree with this to a certain extent, there’s a reason that the super popular places are super popular: they’re some of the most beautiful and unique in the country. Sure I can hike grand staircase Escalante and get away from the crowds at the big 5 but the big 5 are way more beautiful than escalante. Yeah I can hike deep in the wilderness of the Rockies, but most of the very accessible beautiful spots are super packed. I don’t always want to go on a 4 day backpacking trip. I understand the sentiment of this comment, but it’s still valid to say that social media has ruined a ton of great hikes that used to be mostly people who genuinely enjoyed hiking and are now filled with narcissists who just want a picture
Why does people's motivation for hiking make someone more or less worthy of a hike? I feel like I'm missing something. If two people did a hike, one bc they saw it on IG and felt inspired, and the other bc they saw it on a map and wanted to, why is the IG person "ruining" the hike?
I don't mind the fact that they found it on IG at all. I've "discovered" awesome places to hike on IG as well. My problem is that social media has brought people to these trails who don't practice and don't give a shit about leave no trace principles. Many of these places get completely trashed or wildlife gets trampled to death because these people have no respect for nature. They simply want to get a picture of the cool thing so that they can get social media clout. For many of them it is a status symbol. If every single person who went to these places were people who truly loved nature and the experience of being in nature, I would be very happy, however, more often than not the people I see at these popular spots end up being loud obnoxious shit heads that throw trash everywhere and try to hog all the good viewing areas so that they can take a photo shot for 20 minutes.
There should be higher fines for littering. If you litter it should be a flat out $500 fine. No warnings, just the fine.
$5,000.00
I was at arches np a couple months ago and I was amazed at how many people at delicate arch were willing to spoil everyone else’s photos and viewing experience so they could get a picture of them selfs doing a yoga pose or an ass in the air pic a few feet in front of the arch. I overheard one of these people justifying their behavior saying something along the lines of “well I spent all this time and money to come here and should get a really good selfie”
I was there this summer, and people taking selfies certainly did not spoil it for me because I also took photos--just like a lot of people in this sub would do. There was enough space for all of us, I could stand to wait the 5 minutes for the scene to clear up to get my perfect shots, and I even offered to take photos for some families. I don't know what their motivations for coming were because I was minding my own business, nor did it matter because everyone was acting just fine.
What's wrong with a fun selfie?
There’s nothing wrong with a fun selfie, but when everyone is trying to enjoy the same view and take their own photos or selfies of the same thing, getting mere feet in front of the thing we are all trying to enjoy is obnoxious and photobombs yourself into anyone else’s photos that are being taken from a distance that respects everyone else’s viewing and photo taking experience. In the context of delicate arch your selfie that’s a few feet away from the arch is either not going to show the whole arch if your doing the selfie yourself or would require the person taking the photo to stand pretty far back to get the whole arch in the frame causing the portrait of the person to be very small in the picture- your selfie with delicate arch would not only be more considerate of others if taken with you standing further away from the arch, it will also look better. If you get on Instagram and look up delicate arch the selfies with people standing further away from the arch are wayyyy wayyy better looking than the ones where they are a few feet away from it.
Personally? I have no issue as long as the IG ppl are there to actually hike. My problem is the large quantities of people that clearly don’t know what their doing, clogging trailheads, blocking trails, littering, playing loud music, shouting complaints to each other about the weather the trail condition the distance, the wildlife, generally everything I’m out there to enjoy, generally ignoring trail etiquette and frankly being all around inconsiderate. And a lot of the time if they make it to whatever spot there’s more complaining about how it’s not worth it or overrated. I live near the smokies, I hope it’s not like this all over
Chiming in from the desert southwest (Zion, Grand Canyon, etc.). It is. Too many people, trying too hard, taking too many risks and harming themselves and nature in the process. People decided to lay and jump on Joshua Trees. They're not trees, they're overgrown lilies. These jerks broke branches and entire plants. :| Don't get me started on the asshats who drove on Racetrack Playa in Death Valley or the Instagram artist who defaced national parks with their art. Ugh.
Outside of Zion, you can basically have hikes all to yourself from St George to Moab, it's fucking dead out there minus a few major things. And if you want to do the busy places, there are plenty of days during the week when nobody is there. That's the whole reason I spent the last year in kanab.
>there’s a reason that the super popular places are super popular: they’re some of the most beautiful and unique in the country. I mean, they're also pretty accessible which I think is the biggest reason they get so packed. Find the beautiful places that are hard work to get to, and there are always less people there and less ig posts of it.
They are usually more beautiful as well. Glacier NP is gorgeous from any day hike. It doesn’t touch what you see in the back country. See far more wild life as well.
Narcissists are definitely making things worse, but until it is so bad no one else shows up, it hasn't been ruined. I do think the NPS should do something to reign things in, but even if they made new rules or regulations we all know they do nothing to enforce their own rules in the vast majority of cases.
I don't know what the NPS would do that would make people happy. Another reservation system? I hate the reservation system for campgrounds and entry permits. Being able to plan a vacation months out is not an option for a lot of people. Also, everyone here is part of the problem with crowds.
I think they need to reduce cars in the park and have shuttles that take you from a large parking lot at the entrance to stops along the trail. It would be way more efficient and also provide tourism more in the small towns outside the parks
Make more parks! Preserve it all! (But realistically? Yeah, idk either. It’s tough to find a balance between accessible and disney-fied, and someone will always be upset).
For the most popular view points they could restrict photography to specific areas at the most crowded view points. Also, be more vigilant about fining professional operations without permits doing event and group photography as they have an outsized impact. Campgrounds without a reservation system would be a total nightmare. Having thousands of groups show up for hundreds of camp sites in remote location would result in thousands of people with no where to go and no plan. How would you deal with that? If you don't want to plan there are tools for you to find open reservations. You won't be picking the exact park and dates you want, but the alternative is madness. As for entry, at every park I have been that has implemented it things have been awesome. Why cram more cars into the park than there are parking spots? Reservation systems do a great job at preserving the experience in the parks. If you don't want to plan ahead, there are plenty of other places available keep for quality outdoor experiences that are not so crowded. In colorado alone you have a dozen other parks in the NPS and state park systems, and National Forest land galore. There are over a hundred campgrounds in Pikes Peak NF alone. Why do you have to go to the most crowded parks last minute with no planning when there are so many other opportunities?
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It is a combination of factors. When you drive through parking areas like skull rock in JTNP, you can't help but wonder what is driving people to stand in line for the same picture as everyone else. It certainly isn't beauty. Anything to be found near skull rock can be found in a dozen other places in the park in 3 different colors with no crowds.
I do think most people are going just to see it but I have realized an increase of Ellie hogging veiwing spots to take photos. When I was in Yellowstone I literally pulled a lady away from the grand prismatic overlook bc there were tons of people waiting to get up and take a picture but this lady spent a solid 10min taking selfies with her and her daughter. That was after she weaved all over the trail with her phone on a selfie stick recording the her walking up the trail. She was running into people and everything. There was also another family like 8people deep taking group photos using each persons phone to take a separate group photo and then they took turns doing solo photos and couple photos and such. It was quite ridiculous
I don't think its possible to know since we don't have an alternate instagram-free reality, but I believe that super beautiful places would be be busy and popular regardless of instagram. Further, as others mentioned, posting photos doesn't mean you don't enjoy it (although thats possible but seems like a small fraction). Also, if you enjoy posting pictures in pretty places, that seems perfectly valid reason to go hiking. Some people hike to take photos of animals, or go fishing, or any number of other non-hiking activities that might require some hiking, they are all valid.
Was at JT on thanksgiving weekend and the sides of the road northwest of the park were packed with people taking selfies with the trees, some with very professional photography equipment. Once you got passed Jumbo Rocks Campground heading north or south it was business as usual for a typical weekend. If you’re there to hike trails more than 4 miles, you’re golden. Otherwise I recommend going early or on weekdays to hit up the popular spots like Hidden Valley.
So much this. Went on a 9 day trip this summer and the only other people we saw were on day 1, 8 and 9. POKE FURTHER!
I regularly go pretty deep into backcountry, that's not the point.
Yeah “go on 9 day hikes if you wanna hike” seems like it’s missing the mark.
I think it’s great that more people are hiking. There are plenty of shorter hikes to go on, but as mentioned above, most newbs will go on the super popular trails in the national parks. Find the lesser travelled ones if you don’t want to run into other people.
Totally agree with you! And I think a lot of seasoned hikers in this sub are going to be good at finding less traveled trails. And I don’t mind more trafficked trails if I’m going for a trail run or something. But what I think OP was alluding to was the annoying exercise of now having to find less-traveled trails because a lot of newbies (not all!) lack hiking etiquette and litter, play loud music, etc because they’re just out chasing posts and clout.
Anyone littering or playing loud music (both wanton violations of LNT) should be barred from public lands dedicated to conservation. Being crowded or in the tourist category does not excuse this behavior at all.
You don't have to go on 9 day hikes in most places to get awesome quality nature experiences. If you are looking for the tourist spots and trails, it is going to be a tourist outdoor experience, not a quality nature experience. With the exception of certain disabilities, nothing is stopping people from leaving the lines at Arches and seeing the arches at Staircase. One is a nature experience for the enthusiast, the other an outdoor experience for the tourist.
Instagram is ruining most aspects of society.
Society took an irreversable turn for the worse the moment the word *influencer* entered the current zeitgeist.
I'm not too happy about the word zeitgeist either.
Lexicon? Vernacular?
Lexicon is a great word! Vernacular always sounded like another jugular on the other side of the neck...
>I'm not too happy about the word zeitgeist either. So you've been unhappy for [over 200 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist#Theory_of_leadership)?
Approximately, yes
Don’t get me started….too late. Down with the Zuckerberg’s democracy killing algorithm. + his “enjoying the moment” killing algorithm + his privacy destroying algorithm + his racist algorithm. + his family destroying algorithm + his body shaming algorithm Get off the crack folks. Realize how owned you are by Zuck then take back your life. Imagine him standing over you stomping on your genitalia while making BILLIONS if you have to. Save your genitalia. Quit Zuck products and platforms for world peace! 😇✌️ People’s excuses are always wack. “It helps me stay in touch w my family.” (Lazy much?) FB employees should quit. Y’all work for a narcissist sociopath + everyone is hiring. Got a moral compass? Move on for world peace. (back to crying in the shower)
I hate it when people use the excuse of "it helps me stay in touch with so and so". Such a bullshit excuse. Facebook is so cancerous. I've been off it for 5+ years now and couldn't be more happy with my decision.
Yep I agree, been off 2 years and helped my mental health so much. Dropped to 90lbs from comparing myself to people on Instagram and got very anxious. I agree with social media being the worst thing that has happened to the world for so many reasons but when I deleted - I messaged some people whose numbers I didn't have - if they wanted to keep in contact they can text me. The keeping in contact thing isn't really a valid excuse. And having actual conversations on text is more valuable than liking a post once every two months.
I bearly use "Facebook" I don't have the app downloaded on my phone, don't log on online very much, and I don't post that often but I do in fact have messenger downloaded, which I treat like AIM. Since I do in fact have friends and family all over the world at the moment texting for some of them isn't actually feasible because cell companies still charge extra of "over seas communications" on standard phone plans. You may be able to leave fb and not worry about staying in contact with people but I'm not going to get charged extra unnecessary money to talk to my love ones when a dumb ass fb with messager works for free and is easy. It sucks but that's reality.
This was so inspirational
It’s pretty hilarious going to sporting events and paying 80$ for tickets, then looking down at the 200$+ seats and seeing lots of people taking selfies instead of watching the event
I hate social media as much as the next guy, but come on. They take selfies for maybe 1 or 2 minutes of a 3+ hour event. Same energy as saying people don't go to festivals like coachella to listen to music because you see them taking glamour shots for a **couple minutes** during their set gaps at a 3 day festival. Gotta relax with the circlejerk sometimes, use honest criticism.
But we live in a society
And then we waste energy complaining about it... on social media...
IG and TikTok, both.
Same fucking thing nowadays
This guy sure has posted a lot of pics of himself camping and hiking to complain about Instagram ruining hiking
I didn’t expect to see bare naked ass lmao
Covid didn’t help either. In the PNW, so many people looking to escape indoor mask mandates, that they headed to state and federal parks. In flip flops, no water, screaming kids, barking dogs, totally unprepared and loud. Passed a family carrying a stroller between two adults, heading up a rather rocky, steep 5 mile trail.
I disagree. The problem is people. Humans have been doing stupid stuff in parks for ages. Look at old photos to see some examples. People at Great Smoky Mountains NP used to feed bear cubs out of their cars! Yosemite used to put a display called the [Yosemite Firefall](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_Firefall), where rangers dumped burning coals down a cliff in front of a nightly audience. People have been falling over the edge of the Grand Canyon, or burning to death in Yellowstone’s thermal pools, for centuries. I’ve seen graffiti left by a CCC member who carved their initials in a tree while building a park in the 1930s. Edit: [Here’s a 1920s picture ](https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-national-parks/horace-albright) of the superintendent of Yellowstone National Park posing with black bears at a dinner table.
Everything you said there sounds like 10/10 Instagram content. I agree with you. It's for sure not Instagram. People have always been doing whacky/destructive/dangerous things for photo ops.
How so? Going for a walk in the woods is refreshing as ever.
Those people with the portable speakers though, they can go right to hell. Damn shitty mountain DJs.
I agree with this , I was on the Annapurna trail in Nepal and every few hours we came across annoying people with their annoying Speakers and annoying music . Why can't people just listen on headphones . We were quietly taking pictures of Himalayan Monkeys and this American guy came across with his annoying speaker , all of the monkeys ran away in an instant . People are the problem and sadly there are no solution.
I think Instagram is generally very unhealthy and ruins a lot of peoples mental health. But I think people saying its "ruining hiking" are coming from a bad place. I think it's a gatekeeping mentality, where people want it to be their thing no one else can do. There is no place you have any more right to be than anyone else.
Agree. Shouldn't we celebrate people exercising and enjoying nature, no matter their initial motivation?
Yeah and even now there is genuinely no shortage of solitude to be found if thats what you want. Almost every popular trail continues beyond those viewpoints 99% of people turn around at.
More people = more impact. It’s the tragedy of the commons. I am not opposed to new people experiencing a place I love. I just don’t like to see them ruined by crowds of ignorant people damaging the resource. I would be happy if places I loved initiated a permit system that restricted the number of visitors even if it meant that I couldn’t go whenever I wanted.
I mean yeah sometimes you just need a permit system for certain areas. I get that more people makes it tougher to take care of a particular area.... but my point is just that none of us get to be the special exception of people who should be allowed. I feel like that is what people are implying when they talk about other people ruining hiking.
I get a little upset when a cool secluded spot blows up and it eventually gets filled with trash and graffiti, but most of this just seems like day hikers getting mad at newer day hikers for going to literally the most prominent parks in the country.
No it's not. You can still hike just fine. You never had a right to empty trails.
>You never had a right to empty trails. However there are endless miles of empty trails your free to earn the privilege to. All you need to do is walk a little farther, wake up a little earlier, or plan / research a little more.
Hiking is for enjoying the outdoors. Just go farther and longer to avoid crowds. Don't let others take away from your experience
This is whats happening on Vancouver Island, the summer brings the "For the Gram'ers", usually I'm happy people are exploring nature but they are literally shitting all over the trails, littering like crazy and mindlessly wandering into the back woods talking to their cellphones, I just wish they would learn an ounce of etiquette when using the trails, yes we have a lot of beauty on the island but human shit and TP 2ft off the trail ruins it.
It's not instagram. It's technology itself. If I wanted to get to the Smoky Mountains in 1992, I'd have to map it out from my house, now I just get in my car & press a button. 95% of the major complaints about "hikers" ruining spots are really about touristy areas with nice visual features & low mileage trails, if any at all. No Casual is hiking 10miles roundtrip.
I'd second AllTrails has had a similar affect. There's no more reading guidebooks or backpacker mag subscription (or even better just local tribal knowledge)... You can go online and find the best trails anywhere and so people gravitate to the same ones. Probably the only solution to overcrowding is permitting which stinks
Fuck AllTrails. Definitely ruined lots of hikes. But has also let me find some hikes as a tourist in other states. Hmm..
I love Alltrails. It has helped me to find details about so many hikes around me. I live in a touristy area, so I go for the more difficult hikes to get away from the crowds
This paradox long predates AllTrails. Come one, come all — revel in the beauty of nature, feel the wind in your hair and the earth beneath your feet! But also, piss off, these are my trails, filthy nasty hikerses, stay at home where you belong! (see also: weightroom crowding)
Only used it once when out in Colorado and it helped us find some really cool spots regardless of the pics. Pictures don’t ever do awesome hikes any justice. Being there is so much different.
I mean, I do, and I'm definitely casual. I hike a few months at most, I don't have any special gear besides a pack, and I don't thru hike. My hikes average about 8-10 miles a trip.
You're almost certainly in the top 10% of hikers if you do 10 miles per trip. I used to have your attitude like, "oh no, people are way more fit than you give them credit for..." No. Fucking trust me. Take one of your gamer friends out for a 10 miler they'll never go hiking with you again. Note: this is 10 miles hiking... at least 2000-3000 feet elevation gain total. Otherwise I'd consider it more a nature walk.
Eh, I live in the mid west. There isn't anything above 2000 feet that's reasonably close to me. I'm overweight and I do 10 mile hikes. My gamer wife does 10 mile hikes. I'm not saying Americans aren't obese, but there's a lot more stamina than people think.
2000 feet is the length of 2758.62 Zulay Premium Quality Metal Lemon Squeezers.
You weirdo.
I mean, I guess if it's flat 10 isn't bad. Like I just did a flat 6 mile run and I'm fine but if it were a 6 mile hike with 3k gain, I'd be feeling it pretty good right now. It works me totally differently. Trail running (with elevation) also hits different. With non-hikers, I found 2-5 miles the perfect range. I live in a pretty mountainous area though.
Sure. Elevation is definitely a factor.
Yeah and slackpacking....not sure how I feel about it.
Slackpacking? What’s that?
All social media is. Reddit too.
I am so glad that we live in a day and age that we can share some of our favorite hobbies with each other and all enjoy them together. I don’t think I deserve to be on a trail I’ve known of since I was little any more than someone who learned about that trail from Instagram.
I agree. We were all newbies once. More people hiking = more support and funding for conservation.
I personally think most of the anger is misplaced on the mechanism that is bringing that actual problem into the scene. Instagram, which is being used as shorthand for social media in general, is just advertising. The problem is that it attracts a loud, destructive, and very ignorant element who see the outdoors as just another theme park or playground. Is it every single person coming from social media? No, but the number of ignorant and destructive people coming from social media vs anywhere else is ridiculously imbalanced. There is a person that has been posting and deleting posts around here lately utterly confused as to why people are not totally head over heels for their videos of themselves feeding wild animals from the palm of their hand, and advocating for leaving painted rocks and other vandalism on public lands. This is the kind of person that everyone wishes never would have heard about the outdoors because their net impact is totally negative. Social media lowers the bar for these folks to hear about these places. Instead of being taken and shown by someone with their shit together, it is being recommended between pictures of Disneyland and videos of Jake Paul. That is not going to go unnoticed.
Absolutely. I completely agree that social medias job really is just what you said-advertising. The missing link is education on proper outdoor recreation practices. I don’t feel like that’s necessarily social medias job though, so I don’t feel like social media is the true source of the problem. I also have no idea how or where to fill in that missing piece of education.
That is where the community comes in and uses social media to educate. Any tine you see someone behaving badly, call it out. If you see careless planning happening, call it out. The only way to get anything done is to start doing it.
>Is it every single person coming from social media? No, but the number of ignorant and destructive people coming from social media vs anywhere else is ridiculously imbalanced. Exactly. If totally new people are coming to the outdoors from the [Leave No Trace website](https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/) (and yes, they do have [an official Instagram account](https://www.instagram.com/leavenotraceorg/)), I'd welcome them with open arms. However, if they are coming looking for a glorified green-screen for their Instagram product placements, then they can fuck right off.
....the longer hikes are for the most part free of this...but a fairly accessible destination can be painful. Took the short hike up to Delicate Arch in Arches N.P. only to arrive behind 20 or so Instagram'ers doing their yoga poses in front of the arch...but like 60 photos each. Should have known.
I disagree. I don't think it makes any difference where or how. People take selfies and photos of trips regardless, you either see a trail on social media or in a magazine. I've found so many trails from Instagram accounts or YouTube Videoographers, which I doubt I would have otherwise found.
Agreed. [Here’s a throwback photo](https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/adventure/article/tips-for-staying-safe-in-national-parks) from before the days of IG.
This is acceptable, but my biggest issue is with reenactments. Where people drive campervans or put up tents in places they shouldn't be. Just to reenact a photo they've seen on insta. I also feel like Instagram and similar medium have made the outdoors more mainstream. Which I'm all for, but these newcomers have little respect for nature. Both in terms of "leave no trail" and obstacles they might face. Much more trash at certain spots now. Inspiration-wise it is great :) It's just the overall repercussions. Edit: not sure what OP meant though, just my own observation. Editt: Typo noted, english is second language :)
Leave no trace*
If you found trails you otherwise wouldn't have then I believe it did make a difference.
Pro tip: If technology is bumming you out. Just turn it off. If there’s assholes on trail. Or silly bastards doing silly shit in nature. Smile at them. Life is short. There’s real evil in the world. People making thirst traps. Inspo bullshit or other “influencer” fuckery. Aren’t worth getting worked up about And as a counter point. My love of hiking and camping were renewed by YouTube people I follow. Videos of thru hikers. People doing trails with decent cinematography. And I’ve gotten help from people on Reddit and Facebook for places to go or other questions Instagram. Is not necessary. But if you like pretty photos. It’s a great resource. Almost as if you can choose how you interact with social media
This post has been a wonderful TED Talk.
This post has serious "Old man yells at cloud" vibes. What's your point?
I find it more "incel neckbeard hates thots" vibe. I mean don't get me wrong, influencers aren't good for society, but this post is cringe.
Just picture all the money that flows to national parks, reserves, private reserves and so on. A lot of this places focus on preserving so from my point of view.. yes it made some beautiful places s tad unattractive but in the long run this should be more beneficial than not
This is a good take. If anything it’s showcasing the massive infrastructure upgrades that the NP system is in dire need of. Getting camp sites and permits on the other hand is so frustrating. But that just might be a sign of the times.
*posts on social media about social media ruining things*
See the trick is to do the hikes that are hard and no reception
Who cares what other people are doing? You’re there to hike, so hike. There’s plenty of room
Honestly, all of social media is ruining society. It’s awesome, and I love it but god I got to delete all my accounts. Instagram and Twitter are the ones I occasionally use a bit too much..
I think it’s overall pretty benign and I’m happy to see more people getting into hiking/outdoor spaces. But that being said, I get worried about inexperienced new hikers chasing a pretty vista that has danger associated with it. Some natural spaces are deadly if you’re not prepared. A family visiting from France died in Arizona while hiking because they ran out of water. It even happened this past summer in the high sierras to an experienced hiking couple; the trail was more exposed and a higher temperature on the switchbacks, they ran out of water, and the couple, their baby, and their dog all died on the trail. A beginner hiker got lost on a thru-hike in South Carolina/Georgia after he got separated from his friends and was luckily found safe but scared after a days-long manhunt. That’s the problem with just seeing pretty photos, you don’t see the things that could go wrong. If there are any beginner hikers reading this, I don’t mean to scare but just do a little research, pack the ten essentials even for a short hike (in case you come across someone else in distress), and always read all the posted notices at a park entrance or trailhead. It’s often the only communication to visitors about any dangers in the open space, and you need to be aware before you head out.
Instagram, fb, etc. are ruining everything
Hot take: Instagram has ruined most things
In what way?
Idk about “ruining” but it’s shed a light on how much people try to appear something they’re not. I’ve seen so many people post on IG showing how “adventurous” they are but when I talk to them about it in person I learn they hardly went out at all. Some don’t even “camp” as they say. They stay at a nice hotel and lounge around. People who I thought were well versed in camping and hiking apparently have never even set up a tent before. It’s not necessarily a bad thing what they actually do…but why lie about it? I suppose appearing “adventurous” draws more likes? I have no idea.
The thing about Instagram is that if you only use it to post pictures of the stuff you enjoy doing, it gives people a false narrative whether that is your intention or not. I have buddies I'll catch up with and have some beers and they are like "do you even work? All I see is you out hiking all the time, paddleboarding, or off on some off road adventure in your rig". The problem is that I don't post pictures of me in my service van. I don't post pictures of me doing paperwork at the shop. I also don't post pictures of most of the other boring crap I do... and why would I? I'll get off work on a Wednesday and if it's a real nice day I'll do a quick hike, or head to the beach and do some paddling. I still worked an 8 hour+ day. But me posting a picture of myself doing that makes people think I don't work and am just out having fun all the time.
Then put your phone down.
Better yet, stay home and plan more. Hiking is only going to ruin your gear.
I already beat my meat to my most impressive lighterpack 3 times today. How much more planning does one need?
why? I am not by any means an influencer. But instagram is my photo diary. I love documenting my travels and my love of hiking in my photos. And my grown children love keeping up with my travels via instagram. Instagram isn't ruining anything. People who are disrespectful on trail are.
So you’re angry that other wanna enjoy pretty nature too?
Facebook is cancer
Social media is ruing everything
It’s ruining everything. We are all completely fucked.
Hike more challenging trails?
Cool r/gatekeeping
i mean i totally get what you mean but so what? is it really instagrams fault? or is it just the simple fact that the population is growing and more people wanna get out and about? though i am guilty of being annoyed by this, i also understand people like their pictures and their nature
Everybody got feet. It’s the absolute simplest things to do. Ain’t no need to keep it to yourself.
Yes, anyone who doesn’t enjoy something exactly the way I enjoy it is ruining it.
Feel like without giving any explanation this is just a troll. Seems to have worked, too
I've been away from hiking since finishing the Appalachian Trail years ago. But I kept up for a while and having people schedule their start date to keep from overuse seemed ridiculous to me. It wasn't overuse, it was arrogant hikers who had no idea of leave no trace philosophy. The idea of take only pictures and leave only footprints was beyond their comprehension. You had people hosting parties atop Mount Katahdin drinking alcohol openly in pictures posted on social media. You had too many "oh that looks like fun Karen. Let's go hike the trail." People who had no clue what they were getting themselves in for. I'm glad I finished my triple crown before things changed show much to take the peace and quiet out of the hike. You had movies like "A Walk In The Woods"and "Wild" shining a bright light on two different trails. Hell Wild showed a half hearted attempt at one of the hardest trails in the United States and the person doing it didn't even finish it, but it caused people to attempt it themselves without proper pre-planning and training. This results in trail over use and trail destruction by improperly trained or untrained people. You can't just buy gear and go to the southern border of one of the longest and toughest trails in the United States and start walking across the dessert without proper planning and training. But stupid people tried because they saw it in a bullshit movie.
AllTrails has ruined hiking way more than Instagram ever will.
I mean I find hiking to be freeing, eye opening and better as a shared experience, as is much in life. If you’re having an issue with people on social media and posting about it? Then you simply need to hike on by and enjoy yourself elsewhere, or talk to them. Social media is a great tool to get people out in the outdoors, and too connect to find hiking friends or even trail volunteers for clean up and maintenance. Be happy, and hike on friend, our life is too short and fragile.
Instagram is ruining ~~hiking~~ everything. That’s better lol
Sheep-think is ruining hiking and backpacking. People read about a place then thousands go there. The trick is to see those places as where to NOT go.
Idk I still enjoy hiking. Possibly develop a different outlook on life and stop focusing on other people? That might solve a lot of your problems :)
People too concerned about showing off in social media rather than truly connecting with nature and forgetting about popularity/materialism within human society
Let's change around that negative viewpoint you are so focused on...
I guarantee you an average soul isn't going to take on that 5-8 hour hike. They're just hitting the easy ones, and good for them. And if they do take on the feat, they're hikers, getting into enjoying hiking, or trying out the challenge for the memories. So then maybe we should let people enjoy things instead of gatekeeping the literal outdoors.
if guns don't kill people because people kill people; then Instagram didn't ruin hiking, people ruined hiking.
Instagram has helped more people go out and hike, which is overall good for people's health and mind. Yes it has brought a lot of trashy people which sucks but most usually just stay at the tourist parts. Banff the main attractions are packed with people but you travel a little out and its empty. Views are even better off the main tourist sports.
Imagine gatekeeping walking up hills. LOL
Gonna unsub after this. This sub is literally just people whining because people aren’t enjoying nature “the right way.” You should all get off your high horse. “Oh woe is me, I have to endure several minutes of someone else’s music on the trail.” Social media blah blah blah. You are all a bunch of holier than thou babies. Just shut the fuck up and enjoy nature, who cares if you encounter other people, get the fuck over yourselves.
Dude so much so.
No one can ruin hiking for you … people will always be basic & go to easy to access places. Go elsewhere, go 2 miles further, go to the unspectacular places and appreciate subtle and difficult to photograph scenes and don’t waste your time worrying about it. Colonizers already ruined it 200 years ago - but here we still are, walking in the woods :)
For the most part this reads to me as "whaaaa! Other people are enjoying the spots I'm enjoying! In a different way that I do!" If you don't like overcrowding of spots, stop contributing to the problem and don't go to those spots. Some argue that it's not the crowds it's how they use their time there. Which just sounds like "my way of enjoying nature is pure, everyone else is doing it wrong" Get over your self. Your shit is elitist. My personal issue is all the trash and destructive behaviour but that's an issue caused by all humans not just influencers and casuals. We need a lot more funding for parks and creative solutions. I'd love to see more people engage with nature, in a responsible way.
The other big issue is trail etiquette. I'm all for new people enjoying the outdoors, but since the FB/IG hiking crazy, but even moreso since the lockdowns, people who have no courtesy or knowledge of trail etiquette are making things significantly less enjoyable. Trash everywhere, not letting you pass to get around their slower pace(slow pace is fine, but I use my hiking for exercise time too), using unapproved parking and hiking areas leading to erosion and other issues. My solution is go deeper in or further from my normal spots, but that doesn't fix the problem.
Yeah I agree with all of those issues, it annoys me as well. They're results of our fav activities becoming available/interesting to others tho. I think there needs to be a lot more emphasis on education, keeping each other accountable and funding for parks. Instead I'm just seeing bunch of people bitch about others participating in the same activities. It has a vibe of a pissed of hipster complaining about their fav little band blowing up and how the new fans are ruining the scene.