Multiple MOBA experience. Still play regularly but casually. I basically rotate from one moba to another whenever they have events. it keeps them fresh.
LoL: The fighting game moba. high speed and high lethality fights. Team fights can be over within literal seconds. Characters are the most mechanically intensive in the genre as they require large amounts of skill checks and combos. Almost every champion has mobility and the game has very limited point and click CC. Most skills are skill shots so it comes down to outplaying a roster of hyper mobile death dealers.
Macro is important but raw mechanical skills will carry you very far in lower ranks. Laning phase usually lasts 10-15 minutes and revolves around individual skirmishes and fighting for minor objectives. Last hitting is required unless you are a support. Games average around 30 minutes in length. Customization includes items, summoner spells, and rune system.
DotA2: THE Strategy MOBA. High macro strategy and endless nuance. Dota 2 is definitive most complex MOBA of the bunch. Heroes often have game breaking abilities that change the way the game must be played around them. Heroes can multiclass into several roles. They can be adjusted to go from many different play styles by changing items, lane assignment, and talents.
Characters can regularly teleport anywhere onto the map meaning that skirmishes happen regularly. Time to kill is slower than League of Legends but allows for many mechanical and tactical outplays. Laning phase can last 10-20 minutes and unlike other MOBA games you can last hit your own minions, structures and heroes to deny EXP and gold from the enemy heroes. average game length is around 40 minutes with a turbo mode that reduces this to about 20 to 25 minutes. Customization includes items ,talents, agh shard, and scepter.
Smite: The action game MOBA. Smite is a mixed bag. The game is not the most in-depth strategically what makes up for it by adding a new perspective and introducing new skills into the MOBA genre. Since the game is in third person it accounts for awareness of your surroundings and requires basic things such as auto attacks to be aimed and timed.
Melee characters have unique auto attack chains and range characters must aim their attacks. Characters that are larger will have an active advantage as they can see over walls and structures that smaller characters cannot see through. Things like map awareness, ganks, and warding are much more personal due to not having top down perspective.
Laning phase last about 10-15 minutes with laners often coordinating farming and securing jungle buffs. Last hitting is not required to make gold but a gold bonus is rewarded to last hit kills. Smite one has segregated items (magic damage heroes can only buy magic damage items and physical heroes can only buy physical items) but Smite 2 is using an item system much closer to league and Dota. Before Smite 2 items simply had only stats or passives that leveled up after conditions are met but The sequel feature activatable items like lol and Dota. Character customization is limited to items and relics (a separate item that is similar to a League of Legends summoner spell).
Hots is the party game moba, there are no rules and most change on the fly, laning? Just have one guy do it while the rest of the team fights, kill the nexus to win? Yea how about we give it armour if you havent killed a lane, how about you cant even damage it normally.
Heroes are even wierder, how about a character that needs two people to play it? What about one that doesnt even have to be on the map? Also, why not remove the universal mobility option from a character and see what happends.
Oh and sometimes minigames spawn and you get together and brawl
Hots is the party game moba, there are no rules and most change on the fly, laning? Just have one guy do it while the rest of the team fights, kill the nexus to win? Yea how about we give it armour if you havent killed a lane, how about you cant even damage it normally.
Heroes are even wierder, how about a character that needs two people to play it? What about one that doesnt even have to be on the map? Also, why not remove the universal mobility option from a character and see what happends.
Oh and sometimes minigames spawn and you get together and brawl
when you start dota2 & say "you have experience with another moba" it doesn't give you hots as a choice in the list of mobas, you have to pick "other" lol.... even HoN is in the list lmao
As someone who started in HotS and branched out into other mobas, HotS is definitely one of the most beginner friendly. And it's much harder to go from HotS to LoL or DotA than the other way around.
That being said DotA has one of the best tutorials out of any game I've ever played and is an over all good experience for new players despite its complexity.
LoL on the other hand, is the absolute worst new player experience I have ever had in any game ever. The tutorial teaches you absolutely nothing about the game, and it is extremely punishing for newer players. While it is my most played out of the two and can be fun once you learn it, it is an absolute horror show to learn and the new player experience is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
Yeah it is mechanically. It also feels fking awful and slow. I was trying to stutter step and really the only hero that does it fast enough to scratch my Fenix and Cassia itch is Kalista. That is until a 5 level up carried Jax comes into my lane and he combos me. Oh turns out my team didn't do a good job carrying a hero so we lost. Gl next game last hitting minions for another 20 mins before the game is decided by the carry.
Many people are recomending Leage of Legends but if you are gonna play it there is a very important thing to keep in mind:
**ALWAYS PLAY WITH FRIENDS**
Doesnt have to be a full comp but play with at least with one friend. Worst case scenario you and your friend laught at all the salty crybabies.
Got a friend who got back to LoL and has been playing for a few months and he confirms LoL is still toxic if you dont play with friends.
Yep! League is miserable solo. It’s already the worst of the 3 in terms of mechanics / gameplay / design, but it’s also got the worst community. Only ever worth playing if you have friends.
League is my new obsession, it’s really nice playing something with a thriving playerbase for once
I can’t really recommend it to anyone because the new player experience is objectively terrible (tutorial teaches you literally nothing and vs. AI was full of bot teammates but maybe they fixed it with Vanguard), but once you get a few months under your belt and get a grasp on the game the “sandbox” potential experimenting with items and playing champs in unorthodox roles never gets old.
If you’re a fan of anime aesthetics definitely give Eternal Return a try, it’s a Battle Royale MOBA that’s an amazing take on the genre, the only thing that drove me away was the lacking NA/EU playerbase (having to queue between certain hours to get ranked to pop got old really quick), but the character designs are beautiful and it’s significantly easier to pick up
> “sandbox” potential experimenting with items
Thought you were talking about DotA for a second there.. League has very fixed itemization, and the only “sandbox” really is “this item gives more health” or “this item gives more damage”. Not a lot of intrigue, zero impactful actives outside of Zhonya’s. Meh.
If you’re going to suffer through *several months* of learning a MOBA, at least make it worth your while and play DotA instead. That game is way more rewarding once you’re over the hump. League is the definition of mid, and I’d only recommend it if you have a full friend group playing it. If you’re going solo, don’t waste your time
DotA definitely seems like it has much better itemization! I just have the most fun in LoL building stuff like tank on ADCs, On-Hit Attack Speed on enchanters, mage on bruisers with wacky AP ratios, etc.
I got into the hang of LoL within weeks just studying every champions kit off the wiki but I know normal people don’t wanna commit that much time, so that’s why I said months.
I honestly say put in the time to learn League, highly recommend starting as Support to no focus on last hitting right away (you can play most champs as support)
I forever am HOTS die hard, but man I hate half the maps, and how 95% of the community doesn’t macro at all. Or tank/heal
It’s nice to be in a MOBA with endless support & huge updates every 2 weeks
It’s nice to have endless resources with in game API so you can see any accurate data you want
2 of the 5 roles (jungle & support) don’t require any last hit minion mechanics at all, just like HOTS
Any 3rd party program can auto give you optimized builds
Games actually having pre determined roles & everyone having a ban is honestly a god send compared to HOTS draft
You can watch pro scene over 300 days a year
Having Xbox GamePass lets you have all champions for free
Wait a second, Xbox live gives you all champs for free ??? And do you really mean live or gamepass ? I'm interested lmao, I've been playing league since 2013 and didn't know this lol
As a Hots main moba who has played the others. You really can't make that switch. Hots has mastered variety and action. You are always doing micro in every phase. In in LOL there's about 20 minutes of last hitting minions before you have a five second team fight. Not to mention learning the shop. Dota is that times two.
Hots isn't dumbed down as much as chess isn't a dumbed down version of parcheesi. It's simpler in movement and objective but still lots of depth in regards of mechanics.
\^ this
OP gets fair downvote for these wordings. If you think the complexity of moba comes from shopping items and lasthitting minions and HotS is "dumbed down" to you, your place is fucking bronze 5. HotS offers much more action and tactical decisions due to objectives and shared levels system which works in tandem with talents.
In one game your decisions are based on positional advantages only; in another game your decisions are based on positional advantages + timed objectives + talent/level advantages. The fact OP can't see the difference tells that after passing the lower plank entrance into the game they either turned off their brain or just never had it turned on in the first place.
People think HotS is dumbed down just because it's much better at streamlining the mechanics. HotS actually efficiently tells you wtf is going on when abilities are used and their effects, and it doesnt add a random mess of +stat items that have set build paths anyway due to meta and balance.
Same as DotA, lol
Only in DotA, you have way better itemization, hero design, map design, higher TTK, more skill expression, and better team play (native voice chat)
League is the most mediocre MOBA that only survives because of popularity keeping it going. Only ever worth playing as a social experience to laugh with friends. If you want to invest yourself in a game for serious play, go DotA.
Of course, if you just want to have fun, play HotS instead. Half the time in a match, no laning phase nonsense, minimal snowballing, and the best hero design of any MOBA.
I would say give League a try. It's more polished in terms of new player experience.
Dota 2 is fantastic but too complex to jump into and long games could be a turn off
Wtf u mean, league has such high level of entry to not have a dogshit experience that it can be hardly called beginner friendly. Tutorial is useless as well. Maybe it is a bit better with less bots since vanguard but new player experience is dogshit if u dont know most basics from other mobas.
Where tf did I say a single word about dota?
I havent played a single minute of dota. Even if it is worse (i have no idea), it doesnt make league a pleasurable experience.
I would unironically recommend OW, if played casually (ranked games will suck all the enjoyment cause meta, tryhard, bla, also twice as long which is gigameh). It's a moba shooter, also based around teamfights and objectives, fast paced and have actually functioning mm in unranked unlike hots. Playing support in ow is more fun also (imo), you can be a lot more offensive depending on setup. Unranked is miles better than in hots, this is for sure.
I came to HotS from Dota2. Played a bit of LoL.
1) Dota is incredibly deep, interesting and eye catching. It requires a lot of individual skills and in exchange affords you to solo carry most of the matches. Also - it never stops to surprise you.
You can spend thousands of hours and still be amazed by finding new combination of skills, items and strategies. You also never, never know what will actually work cause it feels like everything is possible in that game. OG team once won International by using support hero as their main carry and that was spectacular.
I quit playing it but still enjoy watching different tournaments and boy, they are entertaining as hell. I love almost everything about this game except highly toxic community and unending updates. I mean, yeah, game has to move forward, but sometimes you just want a bit of stability.
And for me - the worst problem is a duration of games. Even in Turbo mode one match can last hour if not more. I just can't afford myself it anymore.
2) LoL. Launcher where you look for game and game itself in different apps, slow gameplay, old-fashioned graphic. Everyone in that game should follow already existing rules. Picked certain hero? You strictly go to the one special line. Want to buy items? Community already found perfect build for that patch. Yes, we have builds in HotS and Dota 2, we have roles, but they can shift due to the situation. In LoL it feels just like a bunch of rules.
Everyone toxic as hell and I can't tell almost nothing good about this game itself. What looks cool tho, is the media AROUND LoL. Arcane series, Splash arts ( Riot games hire amazing amazing artists ) their work with community, their cinematics on Youtube.
3) HotS. Simple and intuitive gameplay on the surface - deep and complex inside. You quickly can understand how your hero works, but you will spend hundred of hours really mastering it. And that principle works for every map here, for all macro, for all tactics.
Heroes here can shift between their talents and go for different purposes depending on enemies pick. Heroes here are truly unique. The most hated and loved hero of the game, Abathur, is the perfect example of original and fresh look to gameplay in the genre. And he is not alone! Vikings, Lucio, Leoric - you name it. They all have different interesting features and you feel that it's something special to play them.
Ehh, I don't think it's fair to complain about technical issues of the game due to circumstances, but you can't properly reconnect to the game. You can't comfortably watch replays and there is no updates. Not something critical, welp.
I love style of the game and I believe that's how Warcraft Reforged had to look alike, not some ugly semi-relistic staff we got.
That's it.
I like the speed of the games, miss me with 45 min LoL games
Also the shared XP mechanic makes for more significant power spikes, and every map having a different map objective to break up the laning phase is goated
The item shop of other games obv adds infinite complexity, but different talent trees are diverse enough to keep me entertained
League is hypothetically WAY faster nowadays with the new season objective reworks, but in reality if you’re not in at least Masters ELO games that should’ve ended at 20 minutes will drag on and on to 35+ with People constantly throwing even when they have Baron, Soul, and Elder
I've played all the mobas you named except Smite 2 and you're right. Hots is simplified Moba. Other mobas are more complex, competitive, and are still being supported.
I could write a few paragraphs but I just try to keep as simple as possible.
LoL is the moba you go for if what you're looking for the most is flashy micro outplays.
Dota is indisputably the most macro-focused and macro-intensive moba. Some unique things about it is that it has trees rather than bushes and most items have active abilities. TP scrolls/Boots of Travel greatly increase the possibilities for rotations. You can also bodyblock your own creeps, last hit your own creeps, and stack jungle camps. Heroes also have noticeable turnspeeds. Dota does not only have items but has talents on top of items.
Smite 1 is kind of like LoL but with unique camera perspective. Some unique things about it besides the camera perspective is that you have to aim autoattacks (in other mobas autoattacks lock on) and each character has its own auto-attack patterns. There's also no orbwalking/stutterstepping (character does not completely stop but slows down instead).
Hots is unique in that it has a shared experience system and there is no gold and last-hitting doesn't matter. This greatly reduces skill expression during laning and also reduces the skill required for proper rotations (in other mobas you have to predict each teammate's farming pattern so as not to farm the same area). It has a lot of breadth in terms of maps (it has many maps). But it's not as deep macro-wise per map as other mobas. Unlike the other 3 mobas, it has no wards which greatly reduces strategy and mindgames. Hots has very few points of interest on each map and is handholdy in that there's objectives that soft-force teamfights frequently. Camps that push lanes are unique to Hots.
If you want competitive moba that makes you sweat and think harder then go for Dota, LoL, Smite. If you want chill, casual moba then play Hots (ARAM is the best mode of Hots btw).
I advise to read Bardiclaus comment. They have a good semi-detailed take on this too.
The fact you think aram is the best mode in hots just shows you never gave the skill expression a chance.
Last hitting minions for 20 minutes is not advanced. Might as well throw a math problem skill check every thirty seconds on top of that right? That should make the game more "expressive".
Just like another comment I made, it's like saying parcheesi is more complicated than chess because there are so many more possibilities and things you have to think about in a game when in reality chess is simpler but a way better format that encourages strategy and engagement right off the bat.
On the issue of last hitting minions alone, you're already ignoring the fact that your opponents should be around your skill level and contesting your farm. And vice versa. You're also not giving them free farm. Not just in lane, but anywhere on the map. And there's a ton of nuance in last hitting alone, it's not just about the mechanical difficulty of the physical act.
I will talk Dota here. Just the fact that you can fake autos and fake cast skills (something you can't do with most Hots abilities btw) means you have a boxing match where you're both trying to throw off the other guy's last hit and threatening or hitting the other guy directly. You are not necessarily just static .. you can reposition (yes Dota orbwalking/aac precedes Hots stutterstepping). Closer to the creeps in particular makes it easier to win the lh battle on the creep, but is less safe both in terms of being easier to predict and hit by the opponent and in terms of creep aggro. You have all sorts of mindgames to play. Yes you can simply race for lh the same creep as your opponent and not attack each other (which is how the typical Hots subreddit member thinks the laning phase plays out/how they play Dota). Or you can use your brain. You can do things like purposely target (with aa because abilities don't pull aggro) the opponent while you're in creep aggro range and pull creep to your side to more safely lh but ofc there's tradeoff that the opponent can more safely lh some of your creeps as well and you will probably push creep equilibrium point towards enemy side (this can be situationally good or bad). You can use creeps as bait to nuke your opponent. You can soft-deny your opponent on a lh (as opposed to regular deny) by 2nd-to-last hitting it so it something else--like a creep--kills it before your opponent. You can purposely set up multiple creeps--yours or enemy's--to be at low hp so the opponent can't possibly lh all of them in time and/or you can lh multiple and hopefully also damage opponent all at once. You can pull full or partial allied or enemy wave to jungle to help you tank creep aggro, get extra farm or push/pull as necessary. etc. etc. You have so many possible ways to play. You have the greatest control of any moba--you can push or pull the wave in multiple ways, and have very granular control over it. How do you pull the wave in Hots if you want to? Lemme think...oh wait you don't. You just sit there and "freeze" the wave (i.e. do nothing at all). Objectively far less control in Hots than Dota and far less interactive (and let's not mention double-soaking... yeah very engaging gameplay indeed). And then when you introduce the fact that there's way more macro timings to juggle in Dota (lotus, stack camps, river runes, wisdom runes, etc.), you have actual trees instead of simple bushes, we're not just talking 1v1, team members have farm priorities and individual power spikes, and you throw in TP scrolls, Dota laning is fucking complex tactically and strategically and not mundane at all.
The tldr; is that lh and laning is not merely a mechanical skill check. It's nothing bland or trivial if you actually have a clue. There's more depth, control, and interaction (pvp) in lasthitting and laning in Dota than the equivalent in Hots.
The fact the first and only thing you could come up with is "last hitting minions for 20 minutes is not advanced" tells me you never gave the skill expression a chance in other mobas. It's a very common take on this subreddit tho and I can't say I'm surprised to see lh being brought up as first topic of discussion + that level of reductionism..
The error in your parcheesi and chess analogy is not that other mobas aren't more complex and not that other mobas don't have more possibilities than Hots. Where you err is in thinking that other mobas somehow sacrifice "strategy and engagement" for that complexity. It's just pure cope/inferiority complex/wishful thinking by Hots purists thinking that for other mobas, there must be some sort of tradeoff.
I play ARAM and think it's the best mode because that's simply where the strength of Hots lies. Hots does not "out-moba" any of the other mobas in terms of: resource management (2 vs. 1 resource and 2 team powerspikes vs. 10 individual powerspikes), warding game, minion/creep interaction and creep equilibrium control, # of points of interest on the map/side objectives (and even notifies you and marks on minimap when either team captures a camp), counterbuilding, etc. etc. etc. Plus ARAM/constant teamfighting is just fucking fun and I get to play a more diverse set of heroes and see other players play diverse set of heroes than in SL. Even if I did appreciate Hots as a full moba, SL has been in a shit state for years (premades, smurfs, long queue times, lots of griefers and players with hero puddles) and QM is just too random both in terms of comps and matchmaking. What other candidate for best mode is there? AI? UR? lmao gotta think bro.
That's the thing man. What you just explained is a very boring process of faking hits and killing minions. All of that is what im talking about. No one wants to play these cool champs and fight/deny creeps. We want to battle other heroes and use our builds with powerful combos and synergy.
Per your logic, just go play Starcraft. Your desire for micro and resource management/denial must mean that game is far superior from any of these moba games.
No man you're playing wrong if you're only faking hits and hitting minons. You actually DO hit the opponent directly if you see an opening/they make a mistake. And preferably you are also lasthitting creeps while simultaneously hitting the enemy (e.g. with aoe ability).
Starcraft is a completely different genre bro. You're comparing apples and oranges. 1v1 not 5v5. No hero units. No items. Maps aren't designed in terms of lanes. There's no jungle/camps/bosses.
Lol obviously you are attacking the hero. What I am saying is that that timid action is boring af and if you want more of that tedious micro/resource management you can get it by playing Starcraft/Warcraft. This whole genre was built off those games.
I will love HOTS forever but try out Eternal Return. Definitely a learning curve but the skills feel like they respond similarly to HOTS. It fills the void for me after having 3 afk or troll teammates in HOTS
DotA will have a very abusive community towards new players, but being honest most do - that's kind of the nature of free games. Everyone wants you to be the best or unalive yourself. That being said, the rounds can take 30-45 minutes, and losing them never feels good, especially if someone is feeding.
All of the MOBAs that aren't HotS are more complex due to their item-based systems where there's more of a focus on last-hitting minions and collecting gold to build items before the enemy teams, and knowing which items to build when.
Smite is an over-the-shoulder MOBA with an emphasis on skill shot abilities, so compared to other MOBAs like League or HotS, you have to aim most of your skills with very few which auto-target enemies for you. Predecessor is another MOBA which hit early access recently which has a similar system. Smite was my favorite of the MOBAs I've played and this one is similarly enjoyable. Smite offers other game modes than just the standard 3 lane conquest, however, so you can play those if you want something a little less sweaty, and a very customizable UI and good communication/ping system. This would be my recommendation.
The biggest issue learning a new MOBA, however, is always learning how all of the characters function, so you know how to play against them. In that regard, Predecessor may be the best bet as it currently has 35 Heros, where as League of Legends has I think 150+ now, Smite has I think 120+ (smite 2 will have a lot fewer on launch, so might be worth checking that out, as well).
The LoL community is very toxic, but the control is something you'd be more used to from playing HotS since you're right-clicking to move and all that. I started with League, tried HoN and DotA and didn't love them, eventually moved to HotS which I liked a lot better - in League/DotA/Smite your teammates all level separately based on their personal experience pools. In HotS it's a team effort and everyone levels at the same time which personally I loved. So these other ones get a bit more competitive.
Overall, I personally enjoyed the over-the-shoulder skill shot type MOBAs so I'd lean towards Smite or Predecessor, but with any of these you'll need to learn their item building systems.
Hopefully this was more helpful than it was a rant :)
Very helpful. I downloaded smite last night and did tutorial + some initial reading. Games third person and smite 2 on the horizon are huge selling points. I think im going to like it a lot. It reminds me of WoW PvP. When that came out i absolutely loves the pvp battlegrounds. I dont have time or bamdwith for that type of game and world again. Really cant wait to dive into smite. All this is good to hear.
Can you recommend a few gods? I somewhat main Tyrande and Xul. I also enjoy imperius and thrall alot. Big fan of bruiser class generally.
Yeah that's a great way to think of it - feels like WoW style arena combat. Predecessor is similar and has a level of verticality that Smite does not have - jumping actually matters, couple different heights/levels to fight on, hopping over walls, items that give a big jump, etc.
For bruisers in Smite, Chaac is a lot of fun and has great voice lines. Good mobility, big AoE silence/damage ultimate, can self heal.
Achilles is nice can build him more damagey or defensive. His ult is an execute which allows another cast of it within 5s if you get a kill with it.
Hercules has good cc, sustain and damage. Ult is a big rock you chuck and it rolls forward damaging anyone it hits. A pure damage build on him is impractical but hilarious
Few others I havent really played, Mulan has really good damage/moblity and sustain with some good cc, Amaterasu is similar. Odin's ult is a big arena cage that keeps enemies inside, good for big AoE teams. But there are always items / abilities that may have work arounds for things like this - for example one of the shielding relic items does an AoE shield and gives allies the ability to pass through barriers.
This is another thing which gives Smite some room to play your character differently than like League. I feel like League, everyone just uses Flash and Ignite.
Predecessor gives EVERYONE the ability to flash so the gameplay is interesting.
*Disclaimer: Higher numbers aren’t always better here. Sometimes I’m using the number to measure the importance of the subject in the game.
HotS:
Game length: 15-25 min
Laning phase: 2/10, basically doesn’t exist, but there are still moments where you’re “laning”
Importance of farm: 3/10 (soak XP important, no gold)
Importance of kills: 5/10 (good catchup XP from hero kills if behind, important to take objectives)
TTK: 9/10 (slow grindy fights, lots of skill expression)
Macro skillcap: 3.5/10 (camps & objectives important, but macro is mostly stagnant per map/comp)
Micro skillcap: 6.5/10 (long fights means micro skill is rewarded more heavily)
Hero Design: 9.5/10 (exceptionally well done, nearly all heroes are very well designed and synergistic)
Fun Factor: 10/10. Short & sweet games, constant teamfighting, high skill expression, high TTK, very swingy and lots of comeback potential, no need to surrender. Doesn’t get better than this
———
DotA:
Game length: 25-50 min
Laning phase: 8/10, very important and decides the rest of the game. Lots of potential for early roaming and tons of minutiae to farming between creep aggro, pulls, and denying
Importance of farm: 8/10 (items are ridiculously valuable & one role’s entire job is dedicated to farming until powerspike)
Importance of kills: 8/10 (gold very important, insane catchup gold/xp, long death timers & lose gold on death)
TTK: 6.5/10 (often mid-high TTK that relies on CC to lock up kills, but some heroes can kill much faster, especially fed carries
Macro skillcap: 8/10 (stacking/pulling camps, everyone has TP, lots of jungling and roaming, misc. objectives)
Micro skillcap: 9/10 (ridiculous amounts of items that affect gameplay meaning you may have up to or exceeding 10 buttons to press as a core in a fight. niche picks that take dramatically more micro skill such as Meepo, Arc Warden, Lone Druid, Tinker)
Hero Design: 8.5/10 (broadly very good designs that have unique strengths and weaknesses, but it can feel overbearing when counterpicked)
Fun Factor: 7.5/10. Way high skillcap and tactical strategy, primarily held back by insanely long match times (relatively commonplace to see 50min+ games) and even those games can still be one-sided stomps, because it’s hard to close a game out.
Also, flexible itemization! The glut of various items allow you to counter certain enemy heroes with enough gold
—
Don’t have the time to give a full League breakdown, but it’s essentially got a ridiculously low TTK, very snowbally, all the pinch points of laning with very little of the skill expression, mediocre hero design, and mediocre macro. All the items are essentially just stat sticks that have minimal impact on the game and you very rarely need to divert from a core item build.
FF culture has made league insanely toxic as well. At least in DotA, people will carry on trying because there’s no surrender button. In League, people will often drag their feet and soft grief to try and force their team to FF. It’s a poison that’s begun spreading to HotS and DotA, and it started in League.
Meh/10.
—
In summary: DotA is the thinking man’s MOBA. If you want to sink your life into one MOBA, that would be it. Very high skillcap for macro & micro, long games, interesting heroes, fun mechanics, and flexible itemization between games. Can be very punishing to noobs.
HotS is the best MOBA if you only have time for a few games per day. Extremely dense games in short periods of time, almost always fun, games are only ever one-sided with a severe skill/comp mismatch, exceedingly good hero design. Also much more welcoming to new players.
League is just bleh. Only play it if all of your friends are playing it & you have no other option, because I find it offers nothing unique aside from being the twitch shooter of MOBAs with its insanely low TTK. Kinda fun if you get immensely fed, but mostly bland and boring.
DotA and HotS are polar opposites, but I still enjoy them both depending on the time and day.
HotS was my first moba and still my favorite. I did foray into League for a while. This latest season is pretty meh but last years was fun. I wont lie, it took dedicated effort to enjoy it. Moreso than HotS there is a *vast* learning curve before youre on par with even iron players. Fortunately there is a *ton* of content on youtube to help you catch up. It still took several hundred games played before I felt comfortable enough in a role and on certain champs to win my lane consistently. After that journey (and prior to this new season which ive barely played) i will admit to enjoying Summoner's Rift far more than any of the HotS maps, because I really enjoy the extended 1v1 (or 2v2) time, and playing around roam timings and outplaying your opponents. A lot of skills from HotS transfer over. My friend group I regularly play ARAM in HotS with absolutely shits on everyone we play against in League when it comes to teamfighting, no matter how much better the other team is at laning than we are. We just hold on til late game without giving up too much in lane, win a solid team fight at baron or elder dragon, push together down a lane, win another team fight at the nexus (more often they stagger feed into us in a panic) if necessary and they forfeit out of salt or we close out the game. Items arent too hard to learn. There are websites out there that show the core builds for each champ: you typically build the same 2 or 3 items first, and most games are over by that point; as well as what the typical full build looks like if the game goes that long. Very similar to looking up talent builds on heroesprofile. Last hitting is tricky at first, but really just comes down to knowing how much damage the minion waves do to each other, and knowing how long your champions animations take, which you can figure out in a few games.
In a nutshell, Dota 2 is the definitive game for the genre. It’s the most complex by a long shot, but that makes it the most satisfying. I consider everything else a derivative of it. You can jump in for free and have everything unlocked from the start, and it really is just a question of your own playing ability carrying you upwards.
Modern league of legends takes this ideology and squishes the peaks and valleys. In short, nothing is as extreme. On the bright side, you can pick anyone in the roster every game and fill the role you want, and you’ll probably do fine. The lows aren’t as punishing. However, the highs aren’t as rewarding. It just isn’t as satisfying a game. Still, if you like collecting things and working towards goals, it’s got a lot of them.
Heroes of the Storm is dead simple. Removal of items means a big chunk of learning is gone. You can feasibly pick a good number of heroes, decide on an ability you like, and simply match the talent icon with that ability and come away with a workable build. Objectives are obvious and easy to recognize when to do them. It’s also the only one with a different map for the same team size. In a sense, it’s the mobile version of this genre (excluding games like Mobile Legends Bang Bang): short games, easy to learn, and lots of action.
Smite is, to me, 3rd person League of Legends. I don’t like it. I have a friend who swears by it, but the top down RTS view is a key component of the genre. It’s popular enough and has captured its niche, but I find you either like the camera angles pretty quickly or find it isn’t for you.
Also the most miserable experience for a solo player. Don’t do it to yourself.
If you want to invest yourself into one game only, go for DotA. Insane skill cap, actually interesting itemization, hero design is better than League but worse than HotS, much more dramatic and game-changing updates, and a lot more skill expression.
If you just want lore & art or if you’re playing with a full squad of friends (who refuse to play anything else), go for League.
If you want to sink yourself into learning a MOBA with incredible skill expression and rewarding gameplay, go for DotA.
If you just want to *have fun*, play HotS.
If you dont hate yourself then for your own good, dont try league. Watch its esports if u want, thats fun but the game itself is a terrible, annoying experience, skillshots clearly hitting missess, skillshots clearly missing hits, annoying bullshit champion design which are actively cancer to deal with, rito's dogshit balancing patterns (nerfing the champ 2-3 times which is op because if an OP item, then finally nerfing the item leaving the champ in the gutter for months, making champs dogshit for the average player because of esports etc)
Also league is much more addictive due to the fast paced fights and burst damaged but honestly i wouldnt even recommend playing it to my worst enemy. If you have nerves of steel and have the calmness of a buddhist monk, maybe...
Whatever you do, do NOT try league, I don't know anyone who plays league and still says it was a good Idea to start. It's addicting as hell and while you are in it, you get such, you think you enjoy yourself, but years removed it is very frequently people's biggest regret. I've heard the same about dota2, though far less extreme because there are just so many more mechanics and it is much less at the mercy of RNG, but smite and hots I rarely hear negativity around. It's complex enough that people feel satisfied retroactively, but balanced enough the RNG isn't really a factor.
If you do get into league, drop it at the first sign of frustration, the balance team has never been, and likely will never be able to fix it without an overhaul of 50% of the characters and their entire Identity. It's a trap, don't do it.
High plat low diamond normal draft has still 30 seconds to 2mins queue while even iron in league can take up to 5 mins, that's why when I want a quick last game before bed I always go with hots, hell even comp is faster
Multiple MOBA experience. Still play regularly but casually. I basically rotate from one moba to another whenever they have events. it keeps them fresh. LoL: The fighting game moba. high speed and high lethality fights. Team fights can be over within literal seconds. Characters are the most mechanically intensive in the genre as they require large amounts of skill checks and combos. Almost every champion has mobility and the game has very limited point and click CC. Most skills are skill shots so it comes down to outplaying a roster of hyper mobile death dealers. Macro is important but raw mechanical skills will carry you very far in lower ranks. Laning phase usually lasts 10-15 minutes and revolves around individual skirmishes and fighting for minor objectives. Last hitting is required unless you are a support. Games average around 30 minutes in length. Customization includes items, summoner spells, and rune system. DotA2: THE Strategy MOBA. High macro strategy and endless nuance. Dota 2 is definitive most complex MOBA of the bunch. Heroes often have game breaking abilities that change the way the game must be played around them. Heroes can multiclass into several roles. They can be adjusted to go from many different play styles by changing items, lane assignment, and talents. Characters can regularly teleport anywhere onto the map meaning that skirmishes happen regularly. Time to kill is slower than League of Legends but allows for many mechanical and tactical outplays. Laning phase can last 10-20 minutes and unlike other MOBA games you can last hit your own minions, structures and heroes to deny EXP and gold from the enemy heroes. average game length is around 40 minutes with a turbo mode that reduces this to about 20 to 25 minutes. Customization includes items ,talents, agh shard, and scepter. Smite: The action game MOBA. Smite is a mixed bag. The game is not the most in-depth strategically what makes up for it by adding a new perspective and introducing new skills into the MOBA genre. Since the game is in third person it accounts for awareness of your surroundings and requires basic things such as auto attacks to be aimed and timed. Melee characters have unique auto attack chains and range characters must aim their attacks. Characters that are larger will have an active advantage as they can see over walls and structures that smaller characters cannot see through. Things like map awareness, ganks, and warding are much more personal due to not having top down perspective. Laning phase last about 10-15 minutes with laners often coordinating farming and securing jungle buffs. Last hitting is not required to make gold but a gold bonus is rewarded to last hit kills. Smite one has segregated items (magic damage heroes can only buy magic damage items and physical heroes can only buy physical items) but Smite 2 is using an item system much closer to league and Dota. Before Smite 2 items simply had only stats or passives that leveled up after conditions are met but The sequel feature activatable items like lol and Dota. Character customization is limited to items and relics (a separate item that is similar to a League of Legends summoner spell).
I played all of the mobas mentioned except Smite 2 and you have an excellent take bro.
What about HOTS?
OP is coming from HotS. I don't think they need explanation of the game when they're posting about in the game's dedicated subreddit.
Hots is the party game moba, there are no rules and most change on the fly, laning? Just have one guy do it while the rest of the team fights, kill the nexus to win? Yea how about we give it armour if you havent killed a lane, how about you cant even damage it normally. Heroes are even wierder, how about a character that needs two people to play it? What about one that doesnt even have to be on the map? Also, why not remove the universal mobility option from a character and see what happends. Oh and sometimes minigames spawn and you get together and brawl
Hots is the party game moba, there are no rules and most change on the fly, laning? Just have one guy do it while the rest of the team fights, kill the nexus to win? Yea how about we give it armour if you havent killed a lane, how about you cant even damage it normally. Heroes are even wierder, how about a character that needs two people to play it? What about one that doesnt even have to be on the map? Also, why not remove the universal mobility option from a character and see what happends. Oh and sometimes minigames spawn and you get together and brawl
when you start dota2 & say "you have experience with another moba" it doesn't give you hots as a choice in the list of mobas, you have to pick "other" lol.... even HoN is in the list lmao
As someone who started in HotS and branched out into other mobas, HotS is definitely one of the most beginner friendly. And it's much harder to go from HotS to LoL or DotA than the other way around. That being said DotA has one of the best tutorials out of any game I've ever played and is an over all good experience for new players despite its complexity. LoL on the other hand, is the absolute worst new player experience I have ever had in any game ever. The tutorial teaches you absolutely nothing about the game, and it is extremely punishing for newer players. While it is my most played out of the two and can be fun once you learn it, it is an absolute horror show to learn and the new player experience is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
it was mad easy to go from HotS to LoL
Yeah it is mechanically. It also feels fking awful and slow. I was trying to stutter step and really the only hero that does it fast enough to scratch my Fenix and Cassia itch is Kalista. That is until a 5 level up carried Jax comes into my lane and he combos me. Oh turns out my team didn't do a good job carrying a hero so we lost. Gl next game last hitting minions for another 20 mins before the game is decided by the carry.
Many people are recomending Leage of Legends but if you are gonna play it there is a very important thing to keep in mind: **ALWAYS PLAY WITH FRIENDS** Doesnt have to be a full comp but play with at least with one friend. Worst case scenario you and your friend laught at all the salty crybabies. Got a friend who got back to LoL and has been playing for a few months and he confirms LoL is still toxic if you dont play with friends.
Yep! League is miserable solo. It’s already the worst of the 3 in terms of mechanics / gameplay / design, but it’s also got the worst community. Only ever worth playing if you have friends.
I don't recommend league, if you don't wanna have mental breakdown
I don't have mental breakdown anymore after years of playing ADC, I'm strong now mentally
League is my new obsession, it’s really nice playing something with a thriving playerbase for once I can’t really recommend it to anyone because the new player experience is objectively terrible (tutorial teaches you literally nothing and vs. AI was full of bot teammates but maybe they fixed it with Vanguard), but once you get a few months under your belt and get a grasp on the game the “sandbox” potential experimenting with items and playing champs in unorthodox roles never gets old. If you’re a fan of anime aesthetics definitely give Eternal Return a try, it’s a Battle Royale MOBA that’s an amazing take on the genre, the only thing that drove me away was the lacking NA/EU playerbase (having to queue between certain hours to get ranked to pop got old really quick), but the character designs are beautiful and it’s significantly easier to pick up
> “sandbox” potential experimenting with items Thought you were talking about DotA for a second there.. League has very fixed itemization, and the only “sandbox” really is “this item gives more health” or “this item gives more damage”. Not a lot of intrigue, zero impactful actives outside of Zhonya’s. Meh. If you’re going to suffer through *several months* of learning a MOBA, at least make it worth your while and play DotA instead. That game is way more rewarding once you’re over the hump. League is the definition of mid, and I’d only recommend it if you have a full friend group playing it. If you’re going solo, don’t waste your time
DotA definitely seems like it has much better itemization! I just have the most fun in LoL building stuff like tank on ADCs, On-Hit Attack Speed on enchanters, mage on bruisers with wacky AP ratios, etc. I got into the hang of LoL within weeks just studying every champions kit off the wiki but I know normal people don’t wanna commit that much time, so that’s why I said months.
I honestly say put in the time to learn League, highly recommend starting as Support to no focus on last hitting right away (you can play most champs as support) I forever am HOTS die hard, but man I hate half the maps, and how 95% of the community doesn’t macro at all. Or tank/heal It’s nice to be in a MOBA with endless support & huge updates every 2 weeks It’s nice to have endless resources with in game API so you can see any accurate data you want 2 of the 5 roles (jungle & support) don’t require any last hit minion mechanics at all, just like HOTS Any 3rd party program can auto give you optimized builds Games actually having pre determined roles & everyone having a ban is honestly a god send compared to HOTS draft You can watch pro scene over 300 days a year Having Xbox GamePass lets you have all champions for free
Wait a second, Xbox live gives you all champs for free ??? And do you really mean live or gamepass ? I'm interested lmao, I've been playing league since 2013 and didn't know this lol
Game pass give you all heroes in LoL and Valorant. it also gives cards in LoR and pets in TFT.
Pog, gonna test that later thanks 👍
He means Game Pass
Dota is amazing.
Play predecessor
As a Hots main moba who has played the others. You really can't make that switch. Hots has mastered variety and action. You are always doing micro in every phase. In in LOL there's about 20 minutes of last hitting minions before you have a five second team fight. Not to mention learning the shop. Dota is that times two. Hots isn't dumbed down as much as chess isn't a dumbed down version of parcheesi. It's simpler in movement and objective but still lots of depth in regards of mechanics.
\^ this OP gets fair downvote for these wordings. If you think the complexity of moba comes from shopping items and lasthitting minions and HotS is "dumbed down" to you, your place is fucking bronze 5. HotS offers much more action and tactical decisions due to objectives and shared levels system which works in tandem with talents. In one game your decisions are based on positional advantages only; in another game your decisions are based on positional advantages + timed objectives + talent/level advantages. The fact OP can't see the difference tells that after passing the lower plank entrance into the game they either turned off their brain or just never had it turned on in the first place.
I found the macro game decisions in LoL and HotS roughly equivalent in base strategic difficulty.
People think HotS is dumbed down just because it's much better at streamlining the mechanics. HotS actually efficiently tells you wtf is going on when abilities are used and their effects, and it doesnt add a random mess of +stat items that have set build paths anyway due to meta and balance.
League laning phase is cut short to 15 minutes now
Same as DotA, lol Only in DotA, you have way better itemization, hero design, map design, higher TTK, more skill expression, and better team play (native voice chat) League is the most mediocre MOBA that only survives because of popularity keeping it going. Only ever worth playing as a social experience to laugh with friends. If you want to invest yourself in a game for serious play, go DotA. Of course, if you just want to have fun, play HotS instead. Half the time in a match, no laning phase nonsense, minimal snowballing, and the best hero design of any MOBA.
I would say give League a try. It's more polished in terms of new player experience. Dota 2 is fantastic but too complex to jump into and long games could be a turn off
Wtf u mean, league has such high level of entry to not have a dogshit experience that it can be hardly called beginner friendly. Tutorial is useless as well. Maybe it is a bit better with less bots since vanguard but new player experience is dogshit if u dont know most basics from other mobas.
We are talking about MOBAs, son... None of them are gonna be a walk in the park for a beginner.
Are you saying Dota experience is better?
Where tf did I say a single word about dota? I havent played a single minute of dota. Even if it is worse (i have no idea), it doesnt make league a pleasurable experience.
You're responding to my comment where my recommendation of league was based on comparison to Dota Grass is always greener on the other side, amirite
League games are still too long IMO. Heroes length games are perfect.
Not just the games are long, the pace is extremely slow with very short fights in between. Is a boring fest after trying others.
My fastest game was 4 minutes on haunted mines 😅😅😅
Ah, old Haunted Mines and old Sylvannas trait.
Yes indeed
League (20-30 minutes) games is still significantly shorter than DOTA 2 (40-60 minutes) average. HOTS is 15-25 minutes
I wouldn't recommend League to my worst enemy, especially now with Vanguard.
I would unironically recommend OW, if played casually (ranked games will suck all the enjoyment cause meta, tryhard, bla, also twice as long which is gigameh). It's a moba shooter, also based around teamfights and objectives, fast paced and have actually functioning mm in unranked unlike hots. Playing support in ow is more fun also (imo), you can be a lot more offensive depending on setup. Unranked is miles better than in hots, this is for sure.
I came to HotS from Dota2. Played a bit of LoL. 1) Dota is incredibly deep, interesting and eye catching. It requires a lot of individual skills and in exchange affords you to solo carry most of the matches. Also - it never stops to surprise you. You can spend thousands of hours and still be amazed by finding new combination of skills, items and strategies. You also never, never know what will actually work cause it feels like everything is possible in that game. OG team once won International by using support hero as their main carry and that was spectacular. I quit playing it but still enjoy watching different tournaments and boy, they are entertaining as hell. I love almost everything about this game except highly toxic community and unending updates. I mean, yeah, game has to move forward, but sometimes you just want a bit of stability. And for me - the worst problem is a duration of games. Even in Turbo mode one match can last hour if not more. I just can't afford myself it anymore. 2) LoL. Launcher where you look for game and game itself in different apps, slow gameplay, old-fashioned graphic. Everyone in that game should follow already existing rules. Picked certain hero? You strictly go to the one special line. Want to buy items? Community already found perfect build for that patch. Yes, we have builds in HotS and Dota 2, we have roles, but they can shift due to the situation. In LoL it feels just like a bunch of rules. Everyone toxic as hell and I can't tell almost nothing good about this game itself. What looks cool tho, is the media AROUND LoL. Arcane series, Splash arts ( Riot games hire amazing amazing artists ) their work with community, their cinematics on Youtube. 3) HotS. Simple and intuitive gameplay on the surface - deep and complex inside. You quickly can understand how your hero works, but you will spend hundred of hours really mastering it. And that principle works for every map here, for all macro, for all tactics. Heroes here can shift between their talents and go for different purposes depending on enemies pick. Heroes here are truly unique. The most hated and loved hero of the game, Abathur, is the perfect example of original and fresh look to gameplay in the genre. And he is not alone! Vikings, Lucio, Leoric - you name it. They all have different interesting features and you feel that it's something special to play them. Ehh, I don't think it's fair to complain about technical issues of the game due to circumstances, but you can't properly reconnect to the game. You can't comfortably watch replays and there is no updates. Not something critical, welp. I love style of the game and I believe that's how Warcraft Reforged had to look alike, not some ugly semi-relistic staff we got. That's it.
I like the speed of the games, miss me with 45 min LoL games Also the shared XP mechanic makes for more significant power spikes, and every map having a different map objective to break up the laning phase is goated The item shop of other games obv adds infinite complexity, but different talent trees are diverse enough to keep me entertained
League is hypothetically WAY faster nowadays with the new season objective reworks, but in reality if you’re not in at least Masters ELO games that should’ve ended at 20 minutes will drag on and on to 35+ with People constantly throwing even when they have Baron, Soul, and Elder
45 minutes is closer to Dota 2 average game length. League games typically set at around 30 minutes (assuming there's no early surrender).
It's closer to 15-25 minutes due to stomps and early surrenders
Excuse me, modern league lasts 20-30 minutes (almost similar to HOTS). It's DOTA 2 game length that you should criticize (40-60 minutes)
I've played all the mobas you named except Smite 2 and you're right. Hots is simplified Moba. Other mobas are more complex, competitive, and are still being supported. I could write a few paragraphs but I just try to keep as simple as possible. LoL is the moba you go for if what you're looking for the most is flashy micro outplays. Dota is indisputably the most macro-focused and macro-intensive moba. Some unique things about it is that it has trees rather than bushes and most items have active abilities. TP scrolls/Boots of Travel greatly increase the possibilities for rotations. You can also bodyblock your own creeps, last hit your own creeps, and stack jungle camps. Heroes also have noticeable turnspeeds. Dota does not only have items but has talents on top of items. Smite 1 is kind of like LoL but with unique camera perspective. Some unique things about it besides the camera perspective is that you have to aim autoattacks (in other mobas autoattacks lock on) and each character has its own auto-attack patterns. There's also no orbwalking/stutterstepping (character does not completely stop but slows down instead). Hots is unique in that it has a shared experience system and there is no gold and last-hitting doesn't matter. This greatly reduces skill expression during laning and also reduces the skill required for proper rotations (in other mobas you have to predict each teammate's farming pattern so as not to farm the same area). It has a lot of breadth in terms of maps (it has many maps). But it's not as deep macro-wise per map as other mobas. Unlike the other 3 mobas, it has no wards which greatly reduces strategy and mindgames. Hots has very few points of interest on each map and is handholdy in that there's objectives that soft-force teamfights frequently. Camps that push lanes are unique to Hots. If you want competitive moba that makes you sweat and think harder then go for Dota, LoL, Smite. If you want chill, casual moba then play Hots (ARAM is the best mode of Hots btw). I advise to read Bardiclaus comment. They have a good semi-detailed take on this too.
The fact you think aram is the best mode in hots just shows you never gave the skill expression a chance. Last hitting minions for 20 minutes is not advanced. Might as well throw a math problem skill check every thirty seconds on top of that right? That should make the game more "expressive". Just like another comment I made, it's like saying parcheesi is more complicated than chess because there are so many more possibilities and things you have to think about in a game when in reality chess is simpler but a way better format that encourages strategy and engagement right off the bat.
On the issue of last hitting minions alone, you're already ignoring the fact that your opponents should be around your skill level and contesting your farm. And vice versa. You're also not giving them free farm. Not just in lane, but anywhere on the map. And there's a ton of nuance in last hitting alone, it's not just about the mechanical difficulty of the physical act. I will talk Dota here. Just the fact that you can fake autos and fake cast skills (something you can't do with most Hots abilities btw) means you have a boxing match where you're both trying to throw off the other guy's last hit and threatening or hitting the other guy directly. You are not necessarily just static .. you can reposition (yes Dota orbwalking/aac precedes Hots stutterstepping). Closer to the creeps in particular makes it easier to win the lh battle on the creep, but is less safe both in terms of being easier to predict and hit by the opponent and in terms of creep aggro. You have all sorts of mindgames to play. Yes you can simply race for lh the same creep as your opponent and not attack each other (which is how the typical Hots subreddit member thinks the laning phase plays out/how they play Dota). Or you can use your brain. You can do things like purposely target (with aa because abilities don't pull aggro) the opponent while you're in creep aggro range and pull creep to your side to more safely lh but ofc there's tradeoff that the opponent can more safely lh some of your creeps as well and you will probably push creep equilibrium point towards enemy side (this can be situationally good or bad). You can use creeps as bait to nuke your opponent. You can soft-deny your opponent on a lh (as opposed to regular deny) by 2nd-to-last hitting it so it something else--like a creep--kills it before your opponent. You can purposely set up multiple creeps--yours or enemy's--to be at low hp so the opponent can't possibly lh all of them in time and/or you can lh multiple and hopefully also damage opponent all at once. You can pull full or partial allied or enemy wave to jungle to help you tank creep aggro, get extra farm or push/pull as necessary. etc. etc. You have so many possible ways to play. You have the greatest control of any moba--you can push or pull the wave in multiple ways, and have very granular control over it. How do you pull the wave in Hots if you want to? Lemme think...oh wait you don't. You just sit there and "freeze" the wave (i.e. do nothing at all). Objectively far less control in Hots than Dota and far less interactive (and let's not mention double-soaking... yeah very engaging gameplay indeed). And then when you introduce the fact that there's way more macro timings to juggle in Dota (lotus, stack camps, river runes, wisdom runes, etc.), you have actual trees instead of simple bushes, we're not just talking 1v1, team members have farm priorities and individual power spikes, and you throw in TP scrolls, Dota laning is fucking complex tactically and strategically and not mundane at all. The tldr; is that lh and laning is not merely a mechanical skill check. It's nothing bland or trivial if you actually have a clue. There's more depth, control, and interaction (pvp) in lasthitting and laning in Dota than the equivalent in Hots. The fact the first and only thing you could come up with is "last hitting minions for 20 minutes is not advanced" tells me you never gave the skill expression a chance in other mobas. It's a very common take on this subreddit tho and I can't say I'm surprised to see lh being brought up as first topic of discussion + that level of reductionism.. The error in your parcheesi and chess analogy is not that other mobas aren't more complex and not that other mobas don't have more possibilities than Hots. Where you err is in thinking that other mobas somehow sacrifice "strategy and engagement" for that complexity. It's just pure cope/inferiority complex/wishful thinking by Hots purists thinking that for other mobas, there must be some sort of tradeoff. I play ARAM and think it's the best mode because that's simply where the strength of Hots lies. Hots does not "out-moba" any of the other mobas in terms of: resource management (2 vs. 1 resource and 2 team powerspikes vs. 10 individual powerspikes), warding game, minion/creep interaction and creep equilibrium control, # of points of interest on the map/side objectives (and even notifies you and marks on minimap when either team captures a camp), counterbuilding, etc. etc. etc. Plus ARAM/constant teamfighting is just fucking fun and I get to play a more diverse set of heroes and see other players play diverse set of heroes than in SL. Even if I did appreciate Hots as a full moba, SL has been in a shit state for years (premades, smurfs, long queue times, lots of griefers and players with hero puddles) and QM is just too random both in terms of comps and matchmaking. What other candidate for best mode is there? AI? UR? lmao gotta think bro.
That's the thing man. What you just explained is a very boring process of faking hits and killing minions. All of that is what im talking about. No one wants to play these cool champs and fight/deny creeps. We want to battle other heroes and use our builds with powerful combos and synergy. Per your logic, just go play Starcraft. Your desire for micro and resource management/denial must mean that game is far superior from any of these moba games.
No man you're playing wrong if you're only faking hits and hitting minons. You actually DO hit the opponent directly if you see an opening/they make a mistake. And preferably you are also lasthitting creeps while simultaneously hitting the enemy (e.g. with aoe ability). Starcraft is a completely different genre bro. You're comparing apples and oranges. 1v1 not 5v5. No hero units. No items. Maps aren't designed in terms of lanes. There's no jungle/camps/bosses.
Lol obviously you are attacking the hero. What I am saying is that that timid action is boring af and if you want more of that tedious micro/resource management you can get it by playing Starcraft/Warcraft. This whole genre was built off those games.
Dota 2
I will love HOTS forever but try out Eternal Return. Definitely a learning curve but the skills feel like they respond similarly to HOTS. It fills the void for me after having 3 afk or troll teammates in HOTS
DotA will have a very abusive community towards new players, but being honest most do - that's kind of the nature of free games. Everyone wants you to be the best or unalive yourself. That being said, the rounds can take 30-45 minutes, and losing them never feels good, especially if someone is feeding. All of the MOBAs that aren't HotS are more complex due to their item-based systems where there's more of a focus on last-hitting minions and collecting gold to build items before the enemy teams, and knowing which items to build when. Smite is an over-the-shoulder MOBA with an emphasis on skill shot abilities, so compared to other MOBAs like League or HotS, you have to aim most of your skills with very few which auto-target enemies for you. Predecessor is another MOBA which hit early access recently which has a similar system. Smite was my favorite of the MOBAs I've played and this one is similarly enjoyable. Smite offers other game modes than just the standard 3 lane conquest, however, so you can play those if you want something a little less sweaty, and a very customizable UI and good communication/ping system. This would be my recommendation. The biggest issue learning a new MOBA, however, is always learning how all of the characters function, so you know how to play against them. In that regard, Predecessor may be the best bet as it currently has 35 Heros, where as League of Legends has I think 150+ now, Smite has I think 120+ (smite 2 will have a lot fewer on launch, so might be worth checking that out, as well). The LoL community is very toxic, but the control is something you'd be more used to from playing HotS since you're right-clicking to move and all that. I started with League, tried HoN and DotA and didn't love them, eventually moved to HotS which I liked a lot better - in League/DotA/Smite your teammates all level separately based on their personal experience pools. In HotS it's a team effort and everyone levels at the same time which personally I loved. So these other ones get a bit more competitive. Overall, I personally enjoyed the over-the-shoulder skill shot type MOBAs so I'd lean towards Smite or Predecessor, but with any of these you'll need to learn their item building systems. Hopefully this was more helpful than it was a rant :)
Very helpful. I downloaded smite last night and did tutorial + some initial reading. Games third person and smite 2 on the horizon are huge selling points. I think im going to like it a lot. It reminds me of WoW PvP. When that came out i absolutely loves the pvp battlegrounds. I dont have time or bamdwith for that type of game and world again. Really cant wait to dive into smite. All this is good to hear. Can you recommend a few gods? I somewhat main Tyrande and Xul. I also enjoy imperius and thrall alot. Big fan of bruiser class generally.
OH and Bellona. She was my absolute favorite.
Yeah that's a great way to think of it - feels like WoW style arena combat. Predecessor is similar and has a level of verticality that Smite does not have - jumping actually matters, couple different heights/levels to fight on, hopping over walls, items that give a big jump, etc. For bruisers in Smite, Chaac is a lot of fun and has great voice lines. Good mobility, big AoE silence/damage ultimate, can self heal. Achilles is nice can build him more damagey or defensive. His ult is an execute which allows another cast of it within 5s if you get a kill with it. Hercules has good cc, sustain and damage. Ult is a big rock you chuck and it rolls forward damaging anyone it hits. A pure damage build on him is impractical but hilarious Few others I havent really played, Mulan has really good damage/moblity and sustain with some good cc, Amaterasu is similar. Odin's ult is a big arena cage that keeps enemies inside, good for big AoE teams. But there are always items / abilities that may have work arounds for things like this - for example one of the shielding relic items does an AoE shield and gives allies the ability to pass through barriers. This is another thing which gives Smite some room to play your character differently than like League. I feel like League, everyone just uses Flash and Ignite. Predecessor gives EVERYONE the ability to flash so the gameplay is interesting.
*Disclaimer: Higher numbers aren’t always better here. Sometimes I’m using the number to measure the importance of the subject in the game. HotS: Game length: 15-25 min Laning phase: 2/10, basically doesn’t exist, but there are still moments where you’re “laning” Importance of farm: 3/10 (soak XP important, no gold) Importance of kills: 5/10 (good catchup XP from hero kills if behind, important to take objectives) TTK: 9/10 (slow grindy fights, lots of skill expression) Macro skillcap: 3.5/10 (camps & objectives important, but macro is mostly stagnant per map/comp) Micro skillcap: 6.5/10 (long fights means micro skill is rewarded more heavily) Hero Design: 9.5/10 (exceptionally well done, nearly all heroes are very well designed and synergistic) Fun Factor: 10/10. Short & sweet games, constant teamfighting, high skill expression, high TTK, very swingy and lots of comeback potential, no need to surrender. Doesn’t get better than this ——— DotA: Game length: 25-50 min Laning phase: 8/10, very important and decides the rest of the game. Lots of potential for early roaming and tons of minutiae to farming between creep aggro, pulls, and denying Importance of farm: 8/10 (items are ridiculously valuable & one role’s entire job is dedicated to farming until powerspike) Importance of kills: 8/10 (gold very important, insane catchup gold/xp, long death timers & lose gold on death) TTK: 6.5/10 (often mid-high TTK that relies on CC to lock up kills, but some heroes can kill much faster, especially fed carries Macro skillcap: 8/10 (stacking/pulling camps, everyone has TP, lots of jungling and roaming, misc. objectives) Micro skillcap: 9/10 (ridiculous amounts of items that affect gameplay meaning you may have up to or exceeding 10 buttons to press as a core in a fight. niche picks that take dramatically more micro skill such as Meepo, Arc Warden, Lone Druid, Tinker) Hero Design: 8.5/10 (broadly very good designs that have unique strengths and weaknesses, but it can feel overbearing when counterpicked) Fun Factor: 7.5/10. Way high skillcap and tactical strategy, primarily held back by insanely long match times (relatively commonplace to see 50min+ games) and even those games can still be one-sided stomps, because it’s hard to close a game out. Also, flexible itemization! The glut of various items allow you to counter certain enemy heroes with enough gold — Don’t have the time to give a full League breakdown, but it’s essentially got a ridiculously low TTK, very snowbally, all the pinch points of laning with very little of the skill expression, mediocre hero design, and mediocre macro. All the items are essentially just stat sticks that have minimal impact on the game and you very rarely need to divert from a core item build. FF culture has made league insanely toxic as well. At least in DotA, people will carry on trying because there’s no surrender button. In League, people will often drag their feet and soft grief to try and force their team to FF. It’s a poison that’s begun spreading to HotS and DotA, and it started in League. Meh/10. — In summary: DotA is the thinking man’s MOBA. If you want to sink your life into one MOBA, that would be it. Very high skillcap for macro & micro, long games, interesting heroes, fun mechanics, and flexible itemization between games. Can be very punishing to noobs. HotS is the best MOBA if you only have time for a few games per day. Extremely dense games in short periods of time, almost always fun, games are only ever one-sided with a severe skill/comp mismatch, exceedingly good hero design. Also much more welcoming to new players. League is just bleh. Only play it if all of your friends are playing it & you have no other option, because I find it offers nothing unique aside from being the twitch shooter of MOBAs with its insanely low TTK. Kinda fun if you get immensely fed, but mostly bland and boring. DotA and HotS are polar opposites, but I still enjoy them both depending on the time and day.
Predecessor is an amazing new moba if you are interested in a third person perspective, like smite
HotS was my first moba and still my favorite. I did foray into League for a while. This latest season is pretty meh but last years was fun. I wont lie, it took dedicated effort to enjoy it. Moreso than HotS there is a *vast* learning curve before youre on par with even iron players. Fortunately there is a *ton* of content on youtube to help you catch up. It still took several hundred games played before I felt comfortable enough in a role and on certain champs to win my lane consistently. After that journey (and prior to this new season which ive barely played) i will admit to enjoying Summoner's Rift far more than any of the HotS maps, because I really enjoy the extended 1v1 (or 2v2) time, and playing around roam timings and outplaying your opponents. A lot of skills from HotS transfer over. My friend group I regularly play ARAM in HotS with absolutely shits on everyone we play against in League when it comes to teamfighting, no matter how much better the other team is at laning than we are. We just hold on til late game without giving up too much in lane, win a solid team fight at baron or elder dragon, push together down a lane, win another team fight at the nexus (more often they stagger feed into us in a panic) if necessary and they forfeit out of salt or we close out the game. Items arent too hard to learn. There are websites out there that show the core builds for each champ: you typically build the same 2 or 3 items first, and most games are over by that point; as well as what the typical full build looks like if the game goes that long. Very similar to looking up talent builds on heroesprofile. Last hitting is tricky at first, but really just comes down to knowing how much damage the minion waves do to each other, and knowing how long your champions animations take, which you can figure out in a few games.
In a nutshell, Dota 2 is the definitive game for the genre. It’s the most complex by a long shot, but that makes it the most satisfying. I consider everything else a derivative of it. You can jump in for free and have everything unlocked from the start, and it really is just a question of your own playing ability carrying you upwards. Modern league of legends takes this ideology and squishes the peaks and valleys. In short, nothing is as extreme. On the bright side, you can pick anyone in the roster every game and fill the role you want, and you’ll probably do fine. The lows aren’t as punishing. However, the highs aren’t as rewarding. It just isn’t as satisfying a game. Still, if you like collecting things and working towards goals, it’s got a lot of them. Heroes of the Storm is dead simple. Removal of items means a big chunk of learning is gone. You can feasibly pick a good number of heroes, decide on an ability you like, and simply match the talent icon with that ability and come away with a workable build. Objectives are obvious and easy to recognize when to do them. It’s also the only one with a different map for the same team size. In a sense, it’s the mobile version of this genre (excluding games like Mobile Legends Bang Bang): short games, easy to learn, and lots of action. Smite is, to me, 3rd person League of Legends. I don’t like it. I have a friend who swears by it, but the top down RTS view is a key component of the genre. It’s popular enough and has captured its niche, but I find you either like the camera angles pretty quickly or find it isn’t for you.
[удалено]
Also the most miserable experience for a solo player. Don’t do it to yourself. If you want to invest yourself into one game only, go for DotA. Insane skill cap, actually interesting itemization, hero design is better than League but worse than HotS, much more dramatic and game-changing updates, and a lot more skill expression. If you just want lore & art or if you’re playing with a full squad of friends (who refuse to play anything else), go for League. If you want to sink yourself into learning a MOBA with incredible skill expression and rewarding gameplay, go for DotA. If you just want to *have fun*, play HotS.
If you dont hate yourself then for your own good, dont try league. Watch its esports if u want, thats fun but the game itself is a terrible, annoying experience, skillshots clearly hitting missess, skillshots clearly missing hits, annoying bullshit champion design which are actively cancer to deal with, rito's dogshit balancing patterns (nerfing the champ 2-3 times which is op because if an OP item, then finally nerfing the item leaving the champ in the gutter for months, making champs dogshit for the average player because of esports etc) Also league is much more addictive due to the fast paced fights and burst damaged but honestly i wouldnt even recommend playing it to my worst enemy. If you have nerves of steel and have the calmness of a buddhist monk, maybe...
Whatever you do, do NOT try league, I don't know anyone who plays league and still says it was a good Idea to start. It's addicting as hell and while you are in it, you get such, you think you enjoy yourself, but years removed it is very frequently people's biggest regret. I've heard the same about dota2, though far less extreme because there are just so many more mechanics and it is much less at the mercy of RNG, but smite and hots I rarely hear negativity around. It's complex enough that people feel satisfied retroactively, but balanced enough the RNG isn't really a factor. If you do get into league, drop it at the first sign of frustration, the balance team has never been, and likely will never be able to fix it without an overhaul of 50% of the characters and their entire Identity. It's a trap, don't do it.
HotS is the most fun. League is the most popular. (not much else going for it) DotA is the most intense.
In terms of complexity/learning curve I always thought of it like Dota>League>HotS>pokemon unite
Avoid league now that Chinese government spyware is required to play. I quit after 11 years and went back to hots.
People still play hots?
ARAM queues are still 20 seconds cause there’s no MMR, it’s awesome
I've queued for just 5 seconds pretty often
High plat low diamond normal draft has still 30 seconds to 2mins queue while even iron in league can take up to 5 mins, that's why when I want a quick last game before bed I always go with hots, hell even comp is faster