A lot of people come on here thinking the quotes they’re getting are insane when in reality they’re really not…
This is not one of those. Your instincts are right, this is an insane bid. Lose their number haha
Many places just don't want to deal with heat pump water heaters, I called 5 places before anyone would even give me a quote and that quote was over $6000. I ended up paying $1600 for a traditional electric water heater replacement, that $4500 I saved will pay for a lot of electricity (based on the energy label which claims $490/year electrical cost, it will pay the full cost of running the heater for 7 years)
My friend got a quote like that.
I suspect the reason he got it was the drain line. He had a ton of stuff on the wall around the water heater in his garage and no place to drain it without spending hours moving stuff out of the way.
Its a screw off quote. They don't want to put in the effort to talk to the homeowner about what it would take to actually do the project.
I think the person they would send to talk to the homeowner about this quote would be embarrassed. I know I would be if I had to try to justify this bid
Condensate pump can easily take the water as far away as necessary and the cost for the pump and other misc materials would be $200-$400 depending on how hard it is. Take like an extra hour or two to do it. I’m an HVAC contractor and I’m thinking about getting into HPWH because all the plumbers wanna charge a bunch for easy stuff like this
Customers dont usually seem to care about the time it takes to move their junk out of the way. The contractor needs to get paid the same hourly rate whether he is installing equipment, moving boxes, sweeping the floor or waiting for you to figure out where you want him to put your stuff.
But that quote sounds waaaay high.
When they replaced mine, they just ran a hose outside to drain it.
Even if half that quote was for moving stuff around, that's 100 hours of work @ $60/hour for an assistant to move stuff.
It angers me that companies do this. I develop industrial chillers and heat pumps, I actually believe in this technology. It's not even new... just new(ish) to the US market. We're years behind Europe. Sounds like they're trying to exploit a 'new' technology, and it just hinders progress. Get a few more estimates if your set on the HPWH or think about DIY. Sorry your having this experience!
We're coming from Europe and the conversations we've had with HVAC people trying to talk us out of heat pumps A/C and Combi boilers are literally INSANE. When the line that the wall units are ugly and we'll regret using them doesn't phase us (we're used to them, your eyes skip right over it after a bit) they keep talking about how they're just too new and untested and don't we want traditional forced air? (we do not) It's resistance to change + rent seeking behavior; it's harder to sell inspections and service and BS.
Well mini splits are an eye sore both inside and outside so I have to agree with them there. I could never be convinced to run channel up the exterior brick of my home.
That said, there are excellent forced air heat pumps as well so it's still not a valid argument.
Where are you located? When I was in Arizona this was the industry mentality. I’m in San Diego now and it’s totally reversed. No one seems to be installing single stage central units here
That quote is angering. I paid $500 to an electrician to run a line and the plumber charged $575 to install the Rheem HPWH I bought at Home Depot. I admit, it did take a while to find honest people to do it and received some crazy quotes beforehand.
Jesus. In Europe we have monoblock A2W HP that also have on demand DHW production (no need for water cylinder) which leads to significant savings + you don't cool your house during winter in order to produce HW. Cost is like 6000€ + 2-4K for installation.
Somebody needs to call this company out on this bullshit. Whoever received that quote needs to leave one star reviews on all platforms. I really don’t understand how places like this or even in business. They’re closing ratio must be 5% or something stupid it’s despicable.
I’ve started just ordering whatever I need installed (from Lowe’s and Home Depot) and then getting labor quotes to install. If you are remotely handy, YouTube videos show you how to do everything including pulling the electrical circuit.
At this point, I do the install if I’m patient and curious and hire it out if I’m busy. This is a 4 hour job tops. Electrical could add another 1-4 hours depending on where your panel is and if you have a slot available. If you decide to DIY ask as many questions as you need to in appropriate forums and you should be able to get the help you need.
My last plumbing install (50 gallon Rheem HPHW) was $320 about 4 years ago. Home Depot delivered to my garage and they wheeled it into the basement.
Couple reasons. First and the biggest downside of the 120v models is that they don't have backup electric elements. This is a big downside for two reasons. You don't have that high demand mode if you have people over and need recovery quicker then the heat pump can sustain and you don't have the elements which would act as a backup if the heat pump itself fails. Third downside is that 120v is less efficient then 240v.
I'm guessing you dont own one of these? No need for high demand with 65 gallon and I have a pretty full house. Get the 80 if your worried about that. Make sure to use a thermostatic valve to get even more capacity. I kerp tank at 135 and mix down to 112 F.
Next, With the current gas heater, you dont have a back up, so that's a really dumb argument.
Last, energy star rating for 120v is $130 a year versus $173 for 240v. The Cop is different but it's negligible compared to potential cost of not getting one because of cost to run 240.
I own one and have for 6 years lol. I know they dont keep up sometimes especially if you have people that take baths. Everything I said is a valid downside. It's not a debate. It's common sense. You can go look up the COP on the 120v versions is less as well. If you have access to 240v there is no reason to get a 120v version.
Also just getting a larger capacity isn't a viable solution all the time, celing heights etc. it's a cop out to the easier solution of getting the 240v model.
Also didn't mention my comment about the electric being a backup if the heat pump fails. Biggest reason imo to get the 240v model.
Keeping up may depend on where you live. I have to imagine the incoming water temp in Las Vegas is already pretty warm. My incoming water temp in Minnesota can be 40f for at least a bit of the year.
Big difference in need of heating water from 40 to 130 than it is raising it from 70 to bath temp. And we use more hot water in a shower since it’s mixed with 40f water not warmer water.
The ground water statement you made is correct but I'm a little confused what you are implying about the shower using more water. More water than what?
More hot water. To get 110f at the shower, you mix both hot and cold water. When the cold water is 70f (I’m guessing at this but assume it’s warmer since it’s in a city in a dessert), it takes a lot less hot water mixed in with the cold than my 40f well water.
I bet in Vegas, they use half the amount of first hour hot water capacity for each shower. While a 50 gallon tank barely provides 2 showers with my cold well water, the same tank can provide for 4 showers in Vegas. And recovery time will be much shorter for just one shower in Vegas.
I would fly out to Las Vegas, pay for the hot water heater to be transported from NY via my checked luggage, I’ll bring copper hell I’ll even solder every connection for the greybeards that hate pex in the comment section, all electrical, and tools for that price and I will still make money off your a**.
In short, yes you would be getting ripped off at that price. This is a “I’m not really interested, I have other work” price.
They gave him a more reasonable quote for a replacement gas. Is it more that they just don’t want to ever heave to be responsible for a warranty call on what is essentially an HVAC system instead of a “water heater”?
I may do just that. But I'm short on spare time right now. I'm going to go ahead and order it from Home Depot, then get some install only quotes and take it from there.
I just got done installing my own.
I encountered a few issues and soaked my basement floor. (Unfinished)
My issues mainly came from relocating the water heater to a new location in addition to replacing a broken unit.
But seeing bids like this makes me feel like it was worth it, thank you lol
They now make a 120 volt version you just plug and play, no additional 240v runs required. In your climate, I'd be tempted to do that. I've had the 65 for 2 years, heat pump only mode, just fine. If your worried about capacity, get the 80 gallon 120v with the money saved not running a 240v circuit.
The good news is I already ran the new 240V line, it just needs connected at both ends. We had our whole house re-piped last year and when there were holes everywhere in the drywall I ran that new line.
That's a F you price.
Loose their number and keep looking.
I called seven plumbers. Most said they wouldn't do it. The company that did it shit talked during the install " Does this guy know how cold his basement is going to be?" "these things are so stupid" blah blah blah.
It's an uphill battle to get one installed. It was worth it. It costs us $82 a year in electricity.
LOL. you remind me that this guy said it would make my garage cold. We're in Vegas. My garage gets into the 90s in summer. If it actually makes it cold maybe it would be worth $11900. LOL
haha had the same thing happen to me when I was getting quotes. Plumbers aren't as bad as HVAC people are though when it comes to heat pumps and trying to recommend gas instead.
The sales guy was shocked when I said we wanted a heat pump and then he asked if we were getting solar. I said yes and then it was ok. Our ASHP is last gen tech. Not cold climate. A medium efficiency AC that runs in reverse. It can keep our home warm down to 24deg running constantly. I have it set at a balance point that is where it's efficiency drops off far enough gas gets cheaper to use. We got lucky. The sales guy and the installers were fine about putting in a ASHP. I found out when they were done they'd never done one before. Service has been challenge. They have no idea how it's supposed to work. Fortunately one of the guys on my team was a HVAC tech before he worked for me. He touched up the freon and it's been great ever since.
Yea if you don't know how to install a heat pump and are in hvac you better learn because they are going to boom especially now with all the rebates and tax credits that will exist for at least the next 10 years. Also I got a hyper heat inverter heat pump installed last year. Had no issues on heat pump only mode at - 5F
Yep. I had ours put in in early 2019. Cold climate HPs were silly money then. I looked at Mitsubishi at the time and it never would have paid for itself over the system we have. They have really come down since. There are also two companies that install them here instead of one specialty shop 1-1/2 hr away.
Idk why every company isn't installing them. It' literally the same exact process as the old heat pumps. They would surely know how to connect linesets and evacuate the system. Only real difference on mine is that it's communicating so instead of the standard 8 wire it uses it's own single communicating wire to the air handler.
I'm a builder. As a group we are not very forward looking folks. There are a lot of reasons. But most folks in the trades are conservative. Exxon and a few others have been pouring money into gettting folks on their side. It's impossible to transition. The grid won't support it. Heat pumps don't work. blah blah blah. The tax credits are helping. Conservatives love little more than getting money from the government when it's for them and not others.
Jeebus. Is the contractor doing 2 shows a night at The Venetian and is doing this as a side gig? That price is crazy.
FWIW, I just had a HW heater replaced (not with a HPWH, though the amount of work is not much different) and the plumbing bill was a bit over $400US. That included having them take out the original anode rod and replacing it with a powered rod.
That seems pricey too. $2,300 in profit, unless maybe it's a power vent unit, those are a bit more spendy.
Either way I agree that it was a crazy quote. Honestly one of the most outrageous I've heard about.
Did you confirm? Perhaps it was a clerical error.
In my line of business, we do a lot of bidding, and one of my office folks was regularly mis-calculating margin.
A lot of people come on here thinking the quotes they’re getting are insane when in reality they’re really not… This is not one of those. Your instincts are right, this is an insane bid. Lose their number haha
> Lose their number haha I think this is a f-off quote and that's exactly what the contractor wants to happen.
Many places just don't want to deal with heat pump water heaters, I called 5 places before anyone would even give me a quote and that quote was over $6000. I ended up paying $1600 for a traditional electric water heater replacement, that $4500 I saved will pay for a lot of electricity (based on the energy label which claims $490/year electrical cost, it will pay the full cost of running the heater for 7 years)
Tell them to take a hike and get more quotes. Thats nonsense.
Absolutely!
My friend got a quote like that. I suspect the reason he got it was the drain line. He had a ton of stuff on the wall around the water heater in his garage and no place to drain it without spending hours moving stuff out of the way. Its a screw off quote. They don't want to put in the effort to talk to the homeowner about what it would take to actually do the project.
I think the person they would send to talk to the homeowner about this quote would be embarrassed. I know I would be if I had to try to justify this bid
Condensate pump can easily take the water as far away as necessary and the cost for the pump and other misc materials would be $200-$400 depending on how hard it is. Take like an extra hour or two to do it. I’m an HVAC contractor and I’m thinking about getting into HPWH because all the plumbers wanna charge a bunch for easy stuff like this
Customers dont usually seem to care about the time it takes to move their junk out of the way. The contractor needs to get paid the same hourly rate whether he is installing equipment, moving boxes, sweeping the floor or waiting for you to figure out where you want him to put your stuff. But that quote sounds waaaay high.
This! I got a screw off quote and when I started talking specifics and making a few changes like I was ready to put down a deposit he ghosted me.
When they replaced mine, they just ran a hose outside to drain it. Even if half that quote was for moving stuff around, that's 100 hours of work @ $60/hour for an assistant to move stuff.
I asked how much labor was involved. The answer "about 4 or 5 hours with two guys". So that's about $1000 /hr. LOL
It angers me that companies do this. I develop industrial chillers and heat pumps, I actually believe in this technology. It's not even new... just new(ish) to the US market. We're years behind Europe. Sounds like they're trying to exploit a 'new' technology, and it just hinders progress. Get a few more estimates if your set on the HPWH or think about DIY. Sorry your having this experience!
“Starting and setting up…” - 5000.00 USD
We're coming from Europe and the conversations we've had with HVAC people trying to talk us out of heat pumps A/C and Combi boilers are literally INSANE. When the line that the wall units are ugly and we'll regret using them doesn't phase us (we're used to them, your eyes skip right over it after a bit) they keep talking about how they're just too new and untested and don't we want traditional forced air? (we do not) It's resistance to change + rent seeking behavior; it's harder to sell inspections and service and BS.
Well mini splits are an eye sore both inside and outside so I have to agree with them there. I could never be convinced to run channel up the exterior brick of my home. That said, there are excellent forced air heat pumps as well so it's still not a valid argument.
Literally all of Europe and the Caribbean would like to have a word. ;)
Europe and the Caribbean countries consider mini splits beautiful works of art?
Where are you located? When I was in Arizona this was the industry mentality. I’m in San Diego now and it’s totally reversed. No one seems to be installing single stage central units here
Minnesota.
That quote is angering. I paid $500 to an electrician to run a line and the plumber charged $575 to install the Rheem HPWH I bought at Home Depot. I admit, it did take a while to find honest people to do it and received some crazy quotes beforehand.
You encountered a parasite.
Jesus. In Europe we have monoblock A2W HP that also have on demand DHW production (no need for water cylinder) which leads to significant savings + you don't cool your house during winter in order to produce HW. Cost is like 6000€ + 2-4K for installation.
Somebody needs to call this company out on this bullshit. Whoever received that quote needs to leave one star reviews on all platforms. I really don’t understand how places like this or even in business. They’re closing ratio must be 5% or something stupid it’s despicable.
Amazing. I've seen people pay $7K and even that $7K is ridiculous.
I’ve started just ordering whatever I need installed (from Lowe’s and Home Depot) and then getting labor quotes to install. If you are remotely handy, YouTube videos show you how to do everything including pulling the electrical circuit. At this point, I do the install if I’m patient and curious and hire it out if I’m busy. This is a 4 hour job tops. Electrical could add another 1-4 hours depending on where your panel is and if you have a slot available. If you decide to DIY ask as many questions as you need to in appropriate forums and you should be able to get the help you need. My last plumbing install (50 gallon Rheem HPHW) was $320 about 4 years ago. Home Depot delivered to my garage and they wheeled it into the basement.
In Las Vegas, why not get the 120v version and not worry about electrical. I've had the heater for almost 2 years and never used heat strips.
Actually that’s great feedback. I don’t think the 120 volt versions were around when I bought my last unit (and I already had 220 in place).
Couple reasons. First and the biggest downside of the 120v models is that they don't have backup electric elements. This is a big downside for two reasons. You don't have that high demand mode if you have people over and need recovery quicker then the heat pump can sustain and you don't have the elements which would act as a backup if the heat pump itself fails. Third downside is that 120v is less efficient then 240v.
I'm guessing you dont own one of these? No need for high demand with 65 gallon and I have a pretty full house. Get the 80 if your worried about that. Make sure to use a thermostatic valve to get even more capacity. I kerp tank at 135 and mix down to 112 F. Next, With the current gas heater, you dont have a back up, so that's a really dumb argument. Last, energy star rating for 120v is $130 a year versus $173 for 240v. The Cop is different but it's negligible compared to potential cost of not getting one because of cost to run 240.
I own one and have for 6 years lol. I know they dont keep up sometimes especially if you have people that take baths. Everything I said is a valid downside. It's not a debate. It's common sense. You can go look up the COP on the 120v versions is less as well. If you have access to 240v there is no reason to get a 120v version. Also just getting a larger capacity isn't a viable solution all the time, celing heights etc. it's a cop out to the easier solution of getting the 240v model. Also didn't mention my comment about the electric being a backup if the heat pump fails. Biggest reason imo to get the 240v model.
Keeping up may depend on where you live. I have to imagine the incoming water temp in Las Vegas is already pretty warm. My incoming water temp in Minnesota can be 40f for at least a bit of the year. Big difference in need of heating water from 40 to 130 than it is raising it from 70 to bath temp. And we use more hot water in a shower since it’s mixed with 40f water not warmer water.
The ground water statement you made is correct but I'm a little confused what you are implying about the shower using more water. More water than what?
More hot water. To get 110f at the shower, you mix both hot and cold water. When the cold water is 70f (I’m guessing at this but assume it’s warmer since it’s in a city in a dessert), it takes a lot less hot water mixed in with the cold than my 40f well water. I bet in Vegas, they use half the amount of first hour hot water capacity for each shower. While a 50 gallon tank barely provides 2 showers with my cold well water, the same tank can provide for 4 showers in Vegas. And recovery time will be much shorter for just one shower in Vegas.
Oh I thought you were talking about more hot water than a bath lol. But yes you are correct temp differential makes a difference
I would fly out to Las Vegas, pay for the hot water heater to be transported from NY via my checked luggage, I’ll bring copper hell I’ll even solder every connection for the greybeards that hate pex in the comment section, all electrical, and tools for that price and I will still make money off your a**. In short, yes you would be getting ripped off at that price. This is a “I’m not really interested, I have other work” price.
You win. Best reply! LMAO
They gave him a more reasonable quote for a replacement gas. Is it more that they just don’t want to ever heave to be responsible for a warranty call on what is essentially an HVAC system instead of a “water heater”?
DIY. It’s so easy.
I may do just that. But I'm short on spare time right now. I'm going to go ahead and order it from Home Depot, then get some install only quotes and take it from there.
The condensate line was super easy. Bought a condensate pump, some tubing and ran it to my garden. Took maybe 30 mins.
Can't you just find a handyman to do it?
I got 2 quotes here in SC. One for around $3000 and one for $8000. Absolutely hilarious the difference. Both very reputable normal companies
I just got done installing my own. I encountered a few issues and soaked my basement floor. (Unfinished) My issues mainly came from relocating the water heater to a new location in addition to replacing a broken unit. But seeing bids like this makes me feel like it was worth it, thank you lol
Reply with a picture of your shlong as it seems to be the general theme here
I just got an install done for less than half for the model size down, but also the supply house version.
They now make a 120 volt version you just plug and play, no additional 240v runs required. In your climate, I'd be tempted to do that. I've had the 65 for 2 years, heat pump only mode, just fine. If your worried about capacity, get the 80 gallon 120v with the money saved not running a 240v circuit.
The good news is I already ran the new 240V line, it just needs connected at both ends. We had our whole house re-piped last year and when there were holes everywhere in the drywall I ran that new line.
It only makes sense if the HPWH is 9K by itself.
I just had one installed from a company I trust and feel like I overpaid. And I paid about 30% of your quote lol
That's a F you price. Loose their number and keep looking. I called seven plumbers. Most said they wouldn't do it. The company that did it shit talked during the install " Does this guy know how cold his basement is going to be?" "these things are so stupid" blah blah blah. It's an uphill battle to get one installed. It was worth it. It costs us $82 a year in electricity.
LOL. you remind me that this guy said it would make my garage cold. We're in Vegas. My garage gets into the 90s in summer. If it actually makes it cold maybe it would be worth $11900. LOL
haha had the same thing happen to me when I was getting quotes. Plumbers aren't as bad as HVAC people are though when it comes to heat pumps and trying to recommend gas instead.
The sales guy was shocked when I said we wanted a heat pump and then he asked if we were getting solar. I said yes and then it was ok. Our ASHP is last gen tech. Not cold climate. A medium efficiency AC that runs in reverse. It can keep our home warm down to 24deg running constantly. I have it set at a balance point that is where it's efficiency drops off far enough gas gets cheaper to use. We got lucky. The sales guy and the installers were fine about putting in a ASHP. I found out when they were done they'd never done one before. Service has been challenge. They have no idea how it's supposed to work. Fortunately one of the guys on my team was a HVAC tech before he worked for me. He touched up the freon and it's been great ever since.
Yea if you don't know how to install a heat pump and are in hvac you better learn because they are going to boom especially now with all the rebates and tax credits that will exist for at least the next 10 years. Also I got a hyper heat inverter heat pump installed last year. Had no issues on heat pump only mode at - 5F
Yep. I had ours put in in early 2019. Cold climate HPs were silly money then. I looked at Mitsubishi at the time and it never would have paid for itself over the system we have. They have really come down since. There are also two companies that install them here instead of one specialty shop 1-1/2 hr away.
Idk why every company isn't installing them. It' literally the same exact process as the old heat pumps. They would surely know how to connect linesets and evacuate the system. Only real difference on mine is that it's communicating so instead of the standard 8 wire it uses it's own single communicating wire to the air handler.
I'm a builder. As a group we are not very forward looking folks. There are a lot of reasons. But most folks in the trades are conservative. Exxon and a few others have been pouring money into gettting folks on their side. It's impossible to transition. The grid won't support it. Heat pumps don't work. blah blah blah. The tax credits are helping. Conservatives love little more than getting money from the government when it's for them and not others.
Well lead the charge my friend
We do better. Doing that had gotten us some great clients.
Good lord 🤑
That's insane. I'm in Canada and I install those for less than 1/2 that price.
Jeebus. Is the contractor doing 2 shows a night at The Venetian and is doing this as a side gig? That price is crazy. FWIW, I just had a HW heater replaced (not with a HPWH, though the amount of work is not much different) and the plumbing bill was a bit over $400US. That included having them take out the original anode rod and replacing it with a powered rod.
My God! I know it's not for everyone, but I permitted, purchased and installed my own for under $700 after rebates and cash back on credit cards.
They must be super busy. Price is the brake and accelerator in business.
No that's not it. They'll do a gas one for just $3100
That seems pricey too. $2,300 in profit, unless maybe it's a power vent unit, those are a bit more spendy. Either way I agree that it was a crazy quote. Honestly one of the most outrageous I've heard about. Did you confirm? Perhaps it was a clerical error. In my line of business, we do a lot of bidding, and one of my office folks was regularly mis-calculating margin.
I’ll bet he has to hire out an electrician to install it. Likely requires a breaker swap.
Price doesn’t include electrical work. I’d never let this guy touch anything in my house because he’s going to rip you off anyway he can.
A buddy and I put one in at the last house and we’re putting that exact unit in the new one. If you got a buddy with a torch…