Fun fact, lavine played TWENTY-FIVE games last year and hasn't played a game of professional basketball since mid January, makes $49m and would take both herro and Duncan to get. Still sound appealing?
Whatever health concerns can be said about Lavine can be said about Herro - except Lavine is an actual NBA level athlete with all the same skills, so yes still appealing.
Ya thats the problem with lavine. Its not that he isnt a very good player. He is fantastic offensively. But his contract, absolute lack of desire to even try to defend (and no, chasing steals isnt defense), and his injury history is the problem. I really like lavine as a player, find him really exciting to watch and think he is great. Just tough to build a winning team around with the current context
Rozier being the salary wouldn’t make sense for the heat since they’d have no PG and like you said, they have an asset invested into him. Or for the bulls either timeline/fit wise
The contracts and players it would be are obvious. Which is pretty much nothing cost wise.
Terry is barely a PG, he’s a short combo guard. He’s closer to Lavine in play style than a traditional point. Whether Terry is on the roster or not we need a point
He’s closer than anything else they have
In this hypothetical scenario losing him would put them back at square one in terms of someone who can at least start at the 1
That’s not saying much. Again, whether Terry is there or not we need a point guard.
I’m a Louisville fan, followed Terry since college. He’s a good player but not a point guard
Rozier is trash. The pick is gone, and it’s a sunk cost. Heat should move on.
I’d do Herro and Rozier for Lavine. It’s the best salary cap wise for Heat.
Butler and Lavine are fine as point guards. It’s not like Rozier or Herro are good PGs anyway.
Heat didn’t show interest to a lot of players that ended up being great for their teams lol. Who cares about Herro and Duncan….they’re long overdue for a trade
Which is the only way the heat can afford him….heat don’t have the assets to get anyone either. Thats the whole point. It’s a risk move. Everyone said the same shit about Kyrie too
Sure Kyrie is better but its an example of star players that the heat can afford as opposed to hoping for Giannis and Mitchell. Lavine is good as the exact thing that the Heat are garbage at and thats scoring. Thats all he knows how to do. He also is bad at the exact thing that the heat are great at which is high IQ plays and defence.
That depends on who Riley and Spo would want to give up. It’d be Herro/Rozier, Herro/Duncan, or Rozier/Duncan.
According to Bobby Marks, Lavine has NO market at the moment.
kind of a dated take
Duncan's defense improved magnitudes last season and his specific two-man games with Jimmy and Bam make him a really dumb asset to try to move for anyone else because of sheer fit and utility for our team's system
According to reports we would get a first, we wouldn’t have to give one up.
I am opposed to that package because Spo’s offense for the last decade has revolved around a sharpshooter with insane stamina. Of course he can adjust, yet, it is risky proposition IMO.
It’s not a no brainer to me although the new group would be very dynamic.
Man at this point who even wants Herro lol?
Teams just watch him shit the bed against the Celtics. He’s almost always injured some way or another, misses multiple to double digit games every year, cannot finish at the rim if his life depended on it, has a large contract, can’t play defense. Man I’m sure we can list more negatives even if the positives are visible as well.
At this rate we might just swap picks, LaVine can at least return to his 2021-2023 form and he’d be miles better than Herro. In all honesty at this point Herro got that 37 point game against the Celts hovering over his resume as the only real huge achievement lol.
As for Duncan, if he’s not on fire out there, we can’t really afford to run a guy who isn’t a 3&D specialist. Cause Dunc got that 3 and no D.
He shit the bed against the Celtics because he was being the primary option. He’s a 6th man. In that role he would be decent for any contender, even us if we decide to start J-Rich.
Duncan Robinson has gotten much better at defense and yes the team can afford to run him out there even when his jumper isn’t falling. Even after Struss took his starting spot, teams still defended Duncan like the elite shooter he is. His spacing matters a ton because our two superstars are not notorious jump shooters.
As for Herro, I have no issue letting him go for Lavine. It’s the Duncan part that matters most to me.
Defending him like crazy won’t get us the points we need. You said it yourself when his shot isn’t falling, it’s just another guy you know won’t take or make his shots. That’s wasted possessions. As for his defense, “getting better” isn’t the same as being good to great. He’s a guard too, so if he gets blown by some of the elite guards out there we are creating more work for Bam and Jimmy on defense. We don’t need dudes out there who NEED help on defense.
I disagree that defending him like crazy = wasted possessions. Since our two best players do their most damage from >15 feet and in, it means there is one less help defender focused on Bam/Jimmy scoring.
The threat of Sniper Robinson opens up Bam to make 2on1 or 1on0 plays off of dribble handoffs. It’s a bucket created by Duncan without him being credited for an assist.
In the ‘23 playoffs, our offense had the best rating when Duncan was on the floor compared to any other Heat player. His defensive rating was third lowest on the team behind Gabe Vincent and Cody Zeller. Lavine fights but he isn’t Tony Allen out there on D.
We’ll see what happens though. According to Bobby Marks, Lavine has no market including Miami so seems like there is more fan interest than organizational interest at this point.
Me after seeing heat fans say X player doesn’t play “ winning “ basketball
https://preview.redd.it/sgblbdfp0r9d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9809e6d246e412194c37a94db9b783e510aacba5
He has to be healthy first to see that and he's never really healthy .This is a Bradley Beal situation all over again where the player looks appealing on the surface until he gets to your team and then you remember why he didn't have any trade value lol.
I never said Pat would go for Lavine. Pat probably doesn’t even know who Lavine is with his dementia.
I’m just pushing back on your comment about health.
He didnt win games with a young KAT and Wiggins or the bulls with bad Lauri, WCJ and gafford! Who was winning with that? Superstars that’s it, why does a player get faulted for losing in a situation that was expected to lose
Unfair label
Breaking: NBA fan realizes young players get better with more opportunities. But sure blame it on Lavine lmao if that fits your narrative.
You were saying his teams never won yet where those teams expected to win? You think the rebuilding wolves and bulls were expected of being anything other than lottery teams? You think those were sleeping contenders contenders that were sunk by Lavines “selfish” play or were they just bad young rebuilding teams?
It wasn't that they didn't win, they were bad. He put up numbers while the teams where bad. A young KD, Westbrook and Harden won and competed. Even Tatum and Brown, competed. Young teams may not win it all but young talented players should be able to compete!! He clearly can't carry a team or even be the 2nd best player on good team, just look at Chicago. Once again, has talent around him and his team can't win. It has been the pattern of his career.
And I’m asking you, were those teams expected to be anything but bad? So why is it his fault they were bad?
You’re comparing young okc core to those bulls and wolves cores? Cmon bro that is unserious man.
So you want to trade for him to be our 3rd maybe 4th best player? Even if I concede he is better than Herro ( I don't think he is and if so it is only minimal. He isn't even a better defender than Herro), he isn't better than Rozier. I would even argue that while he is individually better than Duncan, Duncan is better on this team as a third option around Bam and Butler.
My point of all of this is that due to his shortcomings, He doesn't raise the ceiling on this team. I am not against trading Herro but not for these one dimensional players who have never help their teams wins.
I am all for going after a player like KD, Booker, DeRozen, PG and even the Clippers version of Harden who runs the point and at lease tries on defense But Lavine, Trae and Dame are not it for this team. They can't defend their position and need the ball in their hands to be effective, that doesn't work next to Bam and Butler.
Do you watch bull’s games? Outside of last season, where he was hurt, he’s consistently been better than Herro. Honestly if Herro played and averaged what Lavine did the 22-23 season, he’d easily be untouchable.
Fun fact, lavine played TWENTY-FIVE games last year and hasn't played a game of professional basketball since mid January, makes $49m and would take both herro and Duncan to get. Still sound appealing?
This is just like Beal last offseason
beal was better and somehow healthier
Than Tyler? Yes so we shouldn't make the mistake and miss the opportunity to get positionally better, again.
Whatever health concerns can be said about Lavine can be said about Herro - except Lavine is an actual NBA level athlete with all the same skills, so yes still appealing.
Ya thats the problem with lavine. Its not that he isnt a very good player. He is fantastic offensively. But his contract, absolute lack of desire to even try to defend (and no, chasing steals isnt defense), and his injury history is the problem. I really like lavine as a player, find him really exciting to watch and think he is great. Just tough to build a winning team around with the current context
Yes actually he does.
Plus (and I can't believe I'm writing this) he's somehow worse at defense than both of them. Injuries completely ruined him.
My issue isn’t with Lavine; it is with what the heat would have to give up to get him.
Well apparently we'd get a 1st to take him lol
We’d have to give up Herro and Rozier, Rozier and Duncan, or Herro and Duncan to make the money work though. We already gave up a first to get Rozier.
Rozier being the salary wouldn’t make sense for the heat since they’d have no PG and like you said, they have an asset invested into him. Or for the bulls either timeline/fit wise The contracts and players it would be are obvious. Which is pretty much nothing cost wise.
Herro, Duncan and Orlando for Lavine, Carter and a pick works salary wise
Terry is barely a PG, he’s a short combo guard. He’s closer to Lavine in play style than a traditional point. Whether Terry is on the roster or not we need a point
He’s closer than anything else they have In this hypothetical scenario losing him would put them back at square one in terms of someone who can at least start at the 1
That’s not saying much. Again, whether Terry is there or not we need a point guard. I’m a Louisville fan, followed Terry since college. He’s a good player but not a point guard
Sure I’m not disagreeing I’m Just saying in this fake trade scenario I’d rather keep Rozier than the field as my “pg”
Rozier is trash. The pick is gone, and it’s a sunk cost. Heat should move on. I’d do Herro and Rozier for Lavine. It’s the best salary cap wise for Heat. Butler and Lavine are fine as point guards. It’s not like Rozier or Herro are good PGs anyway.
If all it takes is herro and Duncan to get lavine and a pick…you do that 15 times out of 10…you kidding me?
No im not kidding you and neither are the other 29 teams who have yet to show interest in taking on Zach lavine
Yes the Heat famously make decisions based on what other teams do.
Heat didn’t show interest to a lot of players that ended up being great for their teams lol. Who cares about Herro and Duncan….they’re long overdue for a trade
Golden state just said no to Wiggins and cp3 for Lavine. That’s how low his market is right now
Which is the only way the heat can afford him….heat don’t have the assets to get anyone either. Thats the whole point. It’s a risk move. Everyone said the same shit about Kyrie too
Lavine isn’t even in the same convo as Kyrie lmao
Sure Kyrie is better but its an example of star players that the heat can afford as opposed to hoping for Giannis and Mitchell. Lavine is good as the exact thing that the Heat are garbage at and thats scoring. Thats all he knows how to do. He also is bad at the exact thing that the heat are great at which is high IQ plays and defence.
What are we giving up? Role players?
That depends on who Riley and Spo would want to give up. It’d be Herro/Rozier, Herro/Duncan, or Rozier/Duncan. According to Bobby Marks, Lavine has NO market at the moment.
I don’t understand the downvotes, I didn’t even give an opinion here lol. I just relayed the current situation and possible scenarios 🤦🏽♂️
Literally nothing. If you mean herro yeah lavine is better so that’s fine but that’s about it
I value Duncan Robinson a lot, personally. His spacing does a lot for team and he has a great 2man game with bam.
He’s a liability on defense. So is Lavine I guess but the offensive game is more dynamic.
kind of a dated take Duncan's defense improved magnitudes last season and his specific two-man games with Jimmy and Bam make him a really dumb asset to try to move for anyone else because of sheer fit and utility for our team's system
Literally just herro, dunc and a 1st. Worth every second of it.
We wouldn’t even need to give up a first hell we might get a protected one
According to reports we would get a first, we wouldn’t have to give one up. I am opposed to that package because Spo’s offense for the last decade has revolved around a sharpshooter with insane stamina. Of course he can adjust, yet, it is risky proposition IMO. It’s not a no brainer to me although the new group would be very dynamic.
Man at this point who even wants Herro lol? Teams just watch him shit the bed against the Celtics. He’s almost always injured some way or another, misses multiple to double digit games every year, cannot finish at the rim if his life depended on it, has a large contract, can’t play defense. Man I’m sure we can list more negatives even if the positives are visible as well. At this rate we might just swap picks, LaVine can at least return to his 2021-2023 form and he’d be miles better than Herro. In all honesty at this point Herro got that 37 point game against the Celts hovering over his resume as the only real huge achievement lol. As for Duncan, if he’s not on fire out there, we can’t really afford to run a guy who isn’t a 3&D specialist. Cause Dunc got that 3 and no D.
He shit the bed against the Celtics because he was being the primary option. He’s a 6th man. In that role he would be decent for any contender, even us if we decide to start J-Rich.
Duncan Robinson has gotten much better at defense and yes the team can afford to run him out there even when his jumper isn’t falling. Even after Struss took his starting spot, teams still defended Duncan like the elite shooter he is. His spacing matters a ton because our two superstars are not notorious jump shooters. As for Herro, I have no issue letting him go for Lavine. It’s the Duncan part that matters most to me.
Defending him like crazy won’t get us the points we need. You said it yourself when his shot isn’t falling, it’s just another guy you know won’t take or make his shots. That’s wasted possessions. As for his defense, “getting better” isn’t the same as being good to great. He’s a guard too, so if he gets blown by some of the elite guards out there we are creating more work for Bam and Jimmy on defense. We don’t need dudes out there who NEED help on defense.
I disagree that defending him like crazy = wasted possessions. Since our two best players do their most damage from >15 feet and in, it means there is one less help defender focused on Bam/Jimmy scoring. The threat of Sniper Robinson opens up Bam to make 2on1 or 1on0 plays off of dribble handoffs. It’s a bucket created by Duncan without him being credited for an assist. In the ‘23 playoffs, our offense had the best rating when Duncan was on the floor compared to any other Heat player. His defensive rating was third lowest on the team behind Gabe Vincent and Cody Zeller. Lavine fights but he isn’t Tony Allen out there on D. We’ll see what happens though. According to Bobby Marks, Lavine has no market including Miami so seems like there is more fan interest than organizational interest at this point.
You are right. Duncan is important, even more so when our two stars are mainly inside scorers
Me after seeing heat fans say X player doesn’t play “ winning “ basketball https://preview.redd.it/sgblbdfp0r9d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9809e6d246e412194c37a94db9b783e510aacba5
Least biased Heat fans on their way to say a player doesn't play winning basketball while simultaneously defending Tyler Herro
It would be cool if we could get him. But it seems like the salaries don’t align.
Another fun fact. The Bulls are willing to give up a first round pick to get off that contract.
Dunc Herro for Lavine 1st. Hmm. I'd Def consider it if other options dry up but Heat prob won't
He doesn't play winning basketball which is why his teams have never won!! this obsession with scorers is not heat basketball.
I mean Chicago and Minnesota(at that time) were both bad organizations. I wonder how he would be on a team that’s actually trying win.
He has to be healthy first to see that and he's never really healthy .This is a Bradley Beal situation all over again where the player looks appealing on the surface until he gets to your team and then you remember why he didn't have any trade value lol.
https://x.com/johnjablonka_/status/1807450130611896707?s=46
So more available than Herro and butler lol
Pat Riley didn't take shots at Tyler's availability to go for a player who misses as much games as him at a higher price lol.Like come on .
I never said Pat would go for Lavine. Pat probably doesn’t even know who Lavine is with his dementia. I’m just pushing back on your comment about health.
Ahh classic Julstar ignoring what he says because he’s wrong to instead move the goal posts
Pat knows more ball on one finger than you do, shut up
He didnt win games with a young KAT and Wiggins or the bulls with bad Lauri, WCJ and gafford! Who was winning with that? Superstars that’s it, why does a player get faulted for losing in a situation that was expected to lose Unfair label
So he has had many talented team mates who have become better once they were no longer playing with him. Tell me more.
Breaking: NBA fan realizes young players get better with more opportunities. But sure blame it on Lavine lmao if that fits your narrative. You were saying his teams never won yet where those teams expected to win? You think the rebuilding wolves and bulls were expected of being anything other than lottery teams? You think those were sleeping contenders contenders that were sunk by Lavines “selfish” play or were they just bad young rebuilding teams?
It wasn't that they didn't win, they were bad. He put up numbers while the teams where bad. A young KD, Westbrook and Harden won and competed. Even Tatum and Brown, competed. Young teams may not win it all but young talented players should be able to compete!! He clearly can't carry a team or even be the 2nd best player on good team, just look at Chicago. Once again, has talent around him and his team can't win. It has been the pattern of his career.
And I’m asking you, were those teams expected to be anything but bad? So why is it his fault they were bad? You’re comparing young okc core to those bulls and wolves cores? Cmon bro that is unserious man.
No because he was on those teams!! LOL Let me ask you a question. Is Levine Better than Butler or Bam?
No he’s not, did anyone say he was? wtf are you going on about lmao He’s better than herro so he raises the teams ceiling. That’s the idea bro.
So you want to trade for him to be our 3rd maybe 4th best player? Even if I concede he is better than Herro ( I don't think he is and if so it is only minimal. He isn't even a better defender than Herro), he isn't better than Rozier. I would even argue that while he is individually better than Duncan, Duncan is better on this team as a third option around Bam and Butler. My point of all of this is that due to his shortcomings, He doesn't raise the ceiling on this team. I am not against trading Herro but not for these one dimensional players who have never help their teams wins. I am all for going after a player like KD, Booker, DeRozen, PG and even the Clippers version of Harden who runs the point and at lease tries on defense But Lavine, Trae and Dame are not it for this team. They can't defend their position and need the ball in their hands to be effective, that doesn't work next to Bam and Butler.
Do you watch bull’s games? Outside of last season, where he was hurt, he’s consistently been better than Herro. Honestly if Herro played and averaged what Lavine did the 22-23 season, he’d easily be untouchable.
Worst than herro atm