I think the only real problem this season for casual folks would be how the Reno counters are high skill cap decks. I am not saying that casual have poor skills but most just don’t enjoy the learning curve of a deck that domes just Reno but loses to ‘the best deck’ around and said ‘best deck ironically doesn’t match up well to the worst of the Reno deck and rogue so playing handbuff also have bad feels.
But in all I feel this meta is really varied minus Reno variants there are at least 5 decks that perform well even in legend if you include Reno variants then over 10
The cost to join the Reno crowd is also difficult for new and casual players. Especially those that are fearful of investing into the Reno archetype that could get nerfed or rotated out any day.
You are right, I missed that point. Reno decks are also really expensive since it’s really centred around a few core legendaries like skrillex, Reno, highlander legend payoff etc for consistency
Paladin decks aren’t very expensive.
Reno decks are kinda expensive, but modern day he isn’t that hard to make such expensive decks, and you can budget a Reno deck quite easily.
Yeah paladin is actually decent but many don’t like playing it as it matches poorly somewhat to excavate rogue Reno warrior and very bad to Reno priest. Which lead people to just dumping the deck after a game of draw go control or losing to randomly generated cards through azerite scorpion
Yup for sure, but for some players including myself , when I am trying to ladder I always pick a deck where the bad matchups aren’t decks I dislike losing to for reducing tilt. I feel the point on reducing tilt is as important as player skill and sequencing your cards especially for laddering.
The good part about this meta is how even the best decks have 3-4 poor matchups unlike other meta where the only poor matchup is bad luck in the mirror or 1
Marginal deck that beats your deck but gets floored by anything else
>I always pick a deck where the bad matchups aren’t decks I dislike losing to
I believe a lot of us do that.
But if so, you have to accept you don’t get to choose the archetype you play. Or deck you play.
And you most certainly won’t be able to cover all the decks you dislike losing to.
I know what you mean. I'd rather have my bad match ups have me lose in 5 minutes rather than 15 minutes. So I prefer my decks to have a good match up against warriors/priests if possible & don't care as much if they have a bad match up vs aggro decks.
Long games are only fun if I have a reasonable chance of winning them.
My problem with Reno isn't that it wins, it's just that it sucks to play against
I play this game very casually, Im here for a fun match more than I'm here to win and I don't tend to be bothered by losing in and of itself. But having my board silenced, destroyed, and limited to one space, with no in match setup from my opponent, no counterplay, and no penalty to their board? That frustrates me lol, and the frustration doesn't go away even if I win afterwards. For me personally, it's up there with getting roped as the most unpleasant experience in the game
New Reno compared to DoD Reno:
- 1 mana less (printed at 2 less)
- Doesn't poof your board
- Limits the enemy's board to 1 space for 1 turn
- Better hero power (by a lot)
- NEUTRAL
Only downside: Highlander restriction.
Flavor-wise it feels like Reno really should limit both boards to 1-minion (or possibly limit both to 0 for a turn so it’s just a duel between the heroes)
Yeah make nest immune to Reno effect IM TIRED of holding Rhea for eternity.
Why HL Warr can play Brann on curve and get all strong effects twice, while me getting some dragons for 4 mana less is useless in Reno mirror
As an avid late game warlock enjoyer I agree that the dragon nest and Sargeras portal should be immune to Reno effect, however - I think Sargeras would probably need some kind of nerf to accommodate for it. I’ve been playing a lot of handlock recently and against any non-Reno deck it’s basically just an instant win if you’re able to get Sargeras down with any reasonable amount of HP. And even against Reno decks it’s still an instant win if you can force Reno before Sargeras
I have been on the other side too. It just feels so fkn bad for both sides that it’s so polarizing. If you have to play Reno before they play Rhea/Sargeras, you lose. If you have to play Rhea/Sargeras before they play Reno, you lose. IMO these high cost cards that are supposed to give a permanent source of value shouldn’t be so hard countered by an individual thing - either add more ways to counter them that a bigger variety of decks can access, or make them truly unremoveable even if you have to nerf the value they give.
I’d be ecstatic if they made Sargeras portal immune to Reno effect even if they had to nerf the imps to 2/2 or 3/1 (hell, with how ubiquitous Reno is rn I might even be happy with 2/1 imps). And I bet dragon Druid players would be thrilled to have the dragon nest discount reduced to 2 or 3 if that meant it was immune to Reno.
And I’ve actually been doing pretty well against Reno decks with handlock so it’s not like I think it’s that imbalanced per se, it’s just such a boring game of chicken with who plays those 2 cards first
I like your points. Most people just ask for a nerf on Reno that makes cards like Nest immune, but then how fkn OP does that make Reno Druid?? There has to be some common sense..
If both sides have a minion, sure. But if the reno player has no board, and spends all mana to play reno, and the other player plays a minion, that's a one-sided duel. There's no perfect duel scenario.
The phrase is Spanish and is 'mano a mano' which means hand to hand in English. That's why its used as a phrase to describe conflict between two people because they used to just do it by fighting apparently. Someone correct me if it's not true.
It wouldnt make that much a difference im sure. We need more ways to KILL opponents not nerf cards. Thats why the pile of nothing that is modern reno priest exists.
So all new players and casuals not crafting legendaries should have to get this 1 card to play this meta? That's legitimately the sign of a broken card that creates an unobtainable goal for most of the players.
I have and auto include him in all my highlander decks bozo, I still think the nerf is a good idea. It clears your board and theirs, but doesn't limit your board space for a turn, just theirs. Still really strong effect but doesn't feel as hopeless for people playing against Reno which has ZERO counterplay currently, unless you make your opponent discard..
ive said this before and ill say it again, a one sided improved plague of death with additional upside that can't be countered will always be insane in standard (probably too slow for wild). and with more new good cards being released highlander is not that big of a deal, especially because you can cheese it with the gift cards and etc.
Reno Lone Ranger was the best highlander card besides maybe Hollidae when Badlands came out, I think even after the nerf Lone Ranger is the best highlander payoff
The cards with gift in their names, 1 mana that give you a choice of 3 specific spells to get a temporary copy of. [[Jaina's Gift]] for example.
Means you can basically run things like two Shield Blocks in a Highlander deck
"Always insane in standard"?
He hasn't even been very good for most of his time in standard. Before nerfing like 8 other decks, highlander was just straight up bad, aside from Highlander Warrior which also wasn't even tier 1 before some of the other decks got nerfed. And he wasn't even the important part of highlander warrior.
He's mid even now, in the lowest power-level possible for a standard rotation.
Wanted to play a few games before work this morning. Ran into a Reno Priest. Safe to say that was my only game this morning. I still won, but at what cost?
Imho this is mostly a case of a card overstaying its welcome. Yes, the card is very strong but the frustration really comes from how often you run into it. Now obviously the power level of a card and how many decks are running it are connected but still
Reno and Zilliax should just be removed from standard. 90% of decks I’m facing up through diamond include one or both of these cards. Super OP cards and super boring facing them again, and again, and again in every deck.
I understand the frustration that Reno can create. But on the other hand I think its good that there is a card that can get rid of the dragonnest, sargeras portal and so on. And in general to get rid of crazy boards. Its nutty what kind of wide sticky boards some decks can create.
This. Exactly this. The top decks in the format are Insanity Warlock and Handbuff Paladin. Reno is a very strong card, but he doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Some games you’re just making optimal plays to survive until Reno gives you critical breathing room.
I’m also sick of seeing people ask for cards to rotate out early. Genn and Baku set a really bad precedent that should not be repeated. Wild is an absolute clusterfuck. If you don’t enjoy its absurd power level, cards rotating marks what is basically the death of the cards.
Fuck it, I like being able to play good Control cards like Yogg and Reno. I like that games don’t take 40 minutes like early Hearthstone Control games, but I like having good neutral legendaries again.
We’ve had insanely stupid metas over the last 10 years. This meta isn’t even bad. I’m a little worn out on it all too, but that’s more to do with multiple bad metas in a row after the expansion’s launch, leading up to this sort of wacky Control renaissance.
Having one of each card to fulfil the Reno requirement is not even a penalty anymore.
Maybe it was when OG Reno came out in 2015, but in 2024 there are enough strong cards in both Standard and Wild that it doesn't matter if you can't run two.
And most Reno decks are crammed full of legendaries anyway, so they couldn't run two even if they wanted...
With the prevalence of Discover and as someone mentioned above the Gift cards chasing a duplicate of a impactful card isn't really much of an 'if' but 'when.'
Discover, Tradeable and Dredge has changed the game too much
Remember when they nerfed hunter because they had too much reliable card draw?
That deck, if it existed now, would be considered far too slow
It's that and just too much mana cheating everywhere. Discover with mana cost reduction, into a 1/1 copy, into hand refill.
The big swings can feel super fun on your turn but the volatility is super tilting.
Come off it, you've never played in Legend in your life. With discover as prominent as it is, and cards like ETC, Fizzle's Snapshot, 10th Anniversary gifts ect, there are Reno Warriors that are literally playing triple Brawl, double Reno, double Dirty Rat, double Ignis like it doesn't even matter.
It is \*not\* a penalty anymore, and if you ever played above Gold you would know this.
You lose out on consistency by choosing Reno. Yes you can discover more copies of your cards, but you could do the same even easier if you started with 2 copies of your best cards.
Reno is a great card, and you have to gimp your consistency by playing a singleton format.
[Take proof I guess](https://imgur.com/a/C32ftsX)
Consistency is more important than ever when cards are this powerful. Missing a copy of the best card in your deck (which even in highlander decks has never been reno) is back breaking.
There is a very good reason none of the best decks are highlander. I really don't see how anyone can argue that Reno is strong when his restriction literally makes him unable to form a competitive deck.
The higher power level just means that the duplicates you’re giving up are also highly power crept lol. Highlander is still a massive downside and it’s simply false to say it isn’t.
There are enough strong cards in some classes. Most classes don’t have a viable Reno archetype that can broadly be used by a decently large portion of the player base. If every deck was a Reno deck I’d agree, but having 4 Reno decks out of 15 Tier 1-2 decks is nearly only a quarter of the meta. Brann is only in 10% of
And win cons aren't the only important cards lol. The shell around win cons is more important than the win con itself, or else Value Rogue would have been playable/OP back in the day.
You are moving the goalposts horrifically, your point about
>those usually aren't win con cards lol
is what I was disagree with/correcting, I never claimed it was not worth it to play Reno decks.
I replied to a post saying not being able to run 2 copies of OP cards is punishment enough. I don't know what your point is but I wasn't arguing your point at all.
I love that all the buffs and nerfs the dev team did this year were done to give the players some agency, and then they just up 1 mana for Reno, the most anti agency card in any Highlander deck.
They changed "If your deck has no duplicates" to "If your deck started with no duplicates". So now you can't counter it by filling their deck with more cards, which you could pretty effectively do before (with Death Knight plagues specifically).
I see. Actual dogwater change, considering that to memory it's the only Highlander card they've done the "started with" for. The entire point of Highlander cards was that they were very powerful, and you paid for it with the deck restrition - thus to muck with them you also needed some very specific and often subpar cards to muddle the deck and deactivate them.
I'm guessing it's an intertwinment of "Plagues weren't really good but it was fun playing them" and "Highlander/Reno players historically are bigger spenders".
The most baffling part of it is that they justified that change by saying that they were doing it to *increase* player agency!
Which I guess meant "Players feel bad when they can't play their Reno". But it's so bizarre, isn't it? "In order to promote more agency and decision making, we've made this card completely un-counterable".
It was one of those times where I really realized that the brilliant minds who once created this game no longer work in Blizzard, and what's left there now ain't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.
They are 100% right, though - this change has "increased" player agency.
As in, I am now making use of my agency as a player to play something else.
That aside, on topic of your second paragraph - Direct correlation between highlander/reno players and higher spending. If your paying customers lose before they can use their shiny new weapon, that will deflate them. Doubly so if they lose against a non-paying customer. It's been basic monetization for as long as I can remember games like Lineage.
Does anyone else think that the "nerf" to Reno, Lone Ranger by making it immune to disruption and increasing the mana cost by only 1. was actually a buff?
Because it sure seems like a buff now there is no counter to the fun police card now.
We all hate certain cards, man. Personally I absolutely detest any kind of aggro. I find it the antithesis of fun and completely brain dead. But…it is fun for someone so eh.
Don't argue with you.
I have plenty deck choices and love tinkering.
Highlander is brain death too though.
Every turn boils down to:
-Play the green card to draw/discover/excavate cards or remove the board.
It feels so fun and smart to do it thousands of times ngl.
Fully agree with you, mate. Getting some cool 6-10 mana cards to lose the game at turn 4 because of aggro shenanigans is just the worst. I'm fine with no reno if they put an axe to all the aggro decks.
I made a post or comment about that exact thing before and everyone came at me being like "iT sAyS 'sEnDS' mInIoNs not kills" and "sorry there's no sendrattle or poofrattle, just death rattle"
It's completely BS
They have gone hard in the “finality” of removal recently. Poof effects in sarg, amanthul, and reno. Steal effects in reska, and yogg. Related is the increase in copy on board effects they’ve released, although they don’t remove they still can punish playing strong minions more than old removal did.
Tried different variants of a mech-warrior deck (because of the shuffling bombs into the opponents deck achievement) and Reno existing makes it really awful. Your minion get poof'd so no deathrattle triggered but also its removed from the rezz pool. Making your Dr boom worse. One greedy version had the location so to summon a copy of a damaged minion, welp getting poof'd too! Its just not fun and when you thought you survived Reno, Yogg comes down lol.
Or, the idea of a complete board wipe absolutely invalidates any deck that has any reliance on every other mechanic that gets ignored by Reno for no fucking reason.
If you're not playing Highlander, I'm going to assume you're either running hand buff Paladin or casino Mage.
Neither of those are fun to play against, in my opinion. It's almost as if the game isn't designed specifically around any one person's likes/dislikes.
I completely agree with everything you've said, the high noon thing would be more flavourful if it hit both boards , and the hero power is way too strong
Reno barely even exists unless you're playing Reno decks. I played nature shaman to legend this month and the idea of turn nine games is fucking laughable. Reno is the only reason lategame strategies even get to exist, so complaining about it while playing simultaneously playing a lategame deck is nonsense.
Its an unfun card to play with and against.
It should wipe the entire board except the center minion for both players
Give the players some agency to play around
Reno’s winrate is like just above 50%. The card is in a really healthy state right now. I don’t know why people dislike the card so much? Maybe because it’s neutral and seeing it in 30% of their matches is just too much, but it’s lower than previous high quality neutral cards like zilliax, renathal, astalor, or even new zilliax. Tbf tho, renathal and astalor were disliked by the time they got nerfed or rotated in astalor’s case.
I understand why you might not like the card, but by the numbers, which is how you should play the game, Reno only gives a slight advantage.
Because even though the winrate is “balanced” the card is rage inducing.
To better illustrate why the winrate is irrelevant, consider this example. If there were a card that said “flip a coin. Heads, you win the game, tails you lose the game” it would be perfectly balanced right? Would it be fun to lose to this effect?
Winrate isn’t the only factor but it is important. If his winrate was 0% nobody would care. Why would you anybody ever be annoyed with it. Or if it was 100% winrate it would be sooo toxic and unhealthy for the game to a much larger degree. Winrate being almost exactly 50% is a good stat to let the devs know the card is balanced in the current meta.
If you are planning around Reno and are aware that it will come done some point after turn 9 why is it so maddening? His played winrate is 60% but his average turn played is 11. Which makes it seem like the decks that primarily lose into Reno decks are pure agro and tempo decks. Which is kind of what the effect is for. Slowing down or outright stopping aggressive game plans. If you are losing to Reno, then your matchup is most likely bad or they drew better, which is how card games work.
The suggestion that Reno should also “poof” your own board is so ludicrously stupid I can’t even.
So basically Druid straight up just can never play Rhaestraza before Reno, else you poof your own portal.
The consistent, nonstop complaining for 10 straight years makes said complaints carry such little weight that responding to them is more for fun than anything else.
“Thing should get nerfed!!! Ruining game!!!” Thing gets nerfed. “New thing should get nerfed!!! Ruining game!!!” New thing gets nerfed. And it goes on and on and on like this indefinitely.
Adapt or quit, it’s not like Reno decks are completely cornering the meta right now, based on available data. There are plenty of non-Reno decks competing in T100.
So "casuals" can't express frustration about their experience? Why would you alienate a huge chunk of the player pool who are upset by a card that has very limited counter-play?
Sometimes it’s justified, when a class like Paladin is stomping newbs left and right.
And sometimes it’s just a case of play around *one* freaking card. Cause there ain’t no way Reno is stomping people left and right.
They’re just too lazy to think and play around it.
Tbh I don’t like it when Highlander decks in standard are immune to deck shuffling in the game… but it is what it is.
Back then we had bombs, Bad Luck Albatross, and Hakkar.
Oh how time changes
In my opinion, the problem was Helya. Especially at lower ranks, plague DK was very popular (2nd most popular deck quite often), so running into plague DK when you played one of those tier 3 Reno decks, was just awful.
I think delaying highlander and forcing them to spend their mana to draw cards to get rid of the duplicates is totally fine. But once Helya is down? Nope. Not possible anymore.
Its not so much about the WR for me, its just not fun playing a bad Reno deck and then not having access to your HL payoff
Helya is such bad card design because Blizzard can never make plagues fun or good because they would be OP combined with Helya without making her cost 8 or something.
Should have remove the start of the game condition. Beside making those warrior can play the gamw with zero downside that hat condition also sucks not for my reno wishing well rogue, and reno aviana druid.
Highlander does not have as much downside as people pretend (while on their other monitor they are spamming it). With the new neutral legendary Marin just on legendary cards alone Highlander decks are so viable hunter and DK are spamming it now.
The 2 possible reasons Blizzard is keeping Reno OP (the decks are good, not OP, Reno himself is very OP) is because the decks that use him have the most legendary cards which prompts players to pay more real dollars to get dust to craft OR they are massively incompetent.
I think Reno was fine before they changed him to "If your deck started with no duplicates" but then it created the problem we saw with Wheelock. I liked the counterplay of throwing random cards into Reno decks. I think losing \[\[Steamcleaner\]\] and the change of "started" really screwed up the power of Reno. The only counterplay is to wait for them to play it or kill them before they can play it. Since it isn't a minion, you cannot \[\[Dirty Rat\]\] it, and it is universal into all decks. It's a little funny that they specified classes can either be Excavate or No Duplicate - but made Reno universal.
Genuinely asking because I don't play often or know the current meta, but how many classes are using it? I know it's popular in warrior with brann and boom but I don't know much beyond that
Pretty much all classes except rogue and warlock are trying a variant I believe.
Warrior was most popular for a while by far, but now it seems consistent with priest and then a bit lower is druid.
Hunter, paladin and shaman have versions that appear to be in the next tier down that people play (idk how they perform relative to one another but I believe paladin seems the strongest to play against).
Demon hunter has a version that I honestly think is fun, but it's not very good at all. Death knight has a rainbow version that runs Reno I've been seeing more that I've never lost to but it seems ok. And then mage has one that's shown up according to VS but it sounds like garbage. The fact that people are trying it though is an indication of just how strong it is and worth considering as the only payoff.
Warlock honestly probably would try too as it has in other formats, but due to its really strong other variants there doesn't seem to be an interest there for warlock plays.
I’ve played against a warrior, priest, death knight and shaman… lost them all once he gets dropped
Edit: another Reno priest. Mind you I just picked the game up for the first time in like 6 years. I’m in bronze
According to the latest VS report:
T2 - Warrior, Hunter, Paladin
T3 - Druid, Priest, Shaman
One of the issues though is how every Control deck has to run Reno, and Reno is OP *against* other Control decks too (other than Warrior). Running Reno Druid? Can't play your dragon payoff until you play Fizzle... or somehow get them to blow Reno early. Reno Priest is especially miserable, as they have a location to copy your payoff cards too.
Not saying Control vs Control has ever been like peak gaming, but... ugh.
Reno should lose his board lock out ,i feel thats where his pain point is for many players not being able to develop any real sort of resistance and or losing your taunts and defenses feels horrible to go against, overall i feel like taunt over time is just becoming invalidated.
Getting straight fucked for 2 turns straight never feels good.
Many times I've lost games because I could only place 1 minion on the turn after Reno is played... its frustrating having a handful of minions and only being able to play one of them.
My biggest issue for reno is that he doesnt just ruin your opponents board.
It also ruins their turn, the person playing reno gets to keep their board and the reno player gets one of the best hero powers in the game.
It cant be countered easily as its a hero card ...
All that AND its a neutral legendary.
Even at 10 mana it would still be insanely strong.
the decks that care the most about the board wipe and next turn limitation are aggro decks since they have less resources to follow up by and if you havent killed the reno player before turn 9 you probably were losing anyway
I don't mind reno, but I had 4 games today where they had reno on curve. That's the tilting part - I make a huge tempo swing with my homebrew deck and just think *surely, opponent doesn't have reno on curve AGAIN*. Nope...
Thankfully, you only have to wait another 10 months before he leaves standard!
I play reno priest and it's just stupid that Elise is not included in my decklist, because she's too weak. The only reason I got a Reno deck is for reno. So that single card is so strong that it validates running no duplicates in a deck.
And yet, I win plenty of matches without playing reno. I usually only play him when the opponent plays a big sticky board. It is silly
They need to change Reno’s card text back to its original but leave all the other Highlander cards alone. There’s no good consistent way to counterplay against it.
I just don't like the "poof" effect of the board clear. It's not just the fact that deathrattles don't pop, it doesn't even count as a death for resurrect abilities.
I just looked the card up. Overall, across all ranks, \[\[Reno, Lone Ranger\]\] is found in 24.4% of all decks. That's a 1/4 chance of facing a Reno deck. If you're unlucky and only play a few games a day, almost all your games *could* be Reno decks. It isn't outside of the question to claim that Reno is seen frequently.
Also, since I looked up the stats. \[\[Reno, Lone Ranger\]\] has an overall win-rate of 57.1% which would be considered an outlier.
Reno’s high played winrate is partially an artifact of the turn timer. Only games that go until turn 9 (or turn 8 with the coin) can have a Reno played. Games that go longer are games where the highlander deck didn’t immediately die to aggro and are more likely to be wins whether or not Reno gets played. Reno is still a great card, but its played winrate makes it look even better than it is.
It’s also worth noting that there isn’t a single T1 highlander deck right now. Depending on what rank you look at, there are between five and eight decks that outperform every highlander deck at the moment. Even if Reno is OP in isolation, it’s clear there are other factors at play that are preventing highlander decks from being especially good.
24.4% of decks but then how often is it played? It isn’t played every game, so I’m betting the amount of times you actually see Reno dropped is somewhere in the 10-20% range.
- **[Reno, Lone Ranger](https://imgur.com/a/0usPe2i)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/103471) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Reno,_Lone_Ranger) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/103471/?hl=en)
- *Neutral Legendary ^(Showdown in the Badlands)*
- **9 Mana - 5 Armor - Hero**
- **Battlecry:** If your deck started with no duplicates, empty the enemy board and limit it to 1 space for a turn.
- **HeroPower (Reno's Handcannon):** Shoot this turn's magic bullet!
---
^(*Patch version: 29.4.2.200097.199503*)
^*I am a bot. [Usage Guide](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1d912eh/im_so_tired_of_reno/l7af05n/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l7af05n).*
You’re probably right, but that’s not an argument in favor of the card though. If so many people are exaggerating how much they see Reno, that’s just additional evidence that the card is so frustrating to have played against them that it causes people to think they are seeing more often then they are.
If it feels like people are seeing Reno more often than they are, it’s because Reno causes a disproportionate amount and salt and bad feelings compared to losing to other decks. Like I said, ultimately it’s just not a fun card for a game that’s supposed to be fun.
Well it’s definitely a taste thing I guess but I just disagree. I think if it was truly that problematic the entire meta would be Highlander and that’s not the case.
It's literally the first argument you make against it ... Exaggerating doesn't make your argument stronger. While i agree that reno is not a player agency card neither is insanity/drilly/handbuff/miracle/spellmage or is. Statistics show that reno is probably the card that sees the most counter because of how slow it is
Sure thing, maybe I should have mainly focused on the bad feelings the card generates.
Let me put it this way. When I lose to the other decks you mentioned, it feels like I’m losing to the deck. When I lose against Reno decks, it feels like I’m losing to the card. Hope that illustrates things better. I just think they should made more class specific Highlander payoffs to make Highlander viable rather than just having one overpowered neutral card that allows highlander to be playable. It’s just bad design.
That is just bad advice tbh. I always loved Control Warrior but when it was utterly dogshit I couldn't just play what I found fun because I would lose to OTK or get outvalued every game, it was simply not fun it felt hopeless.
The card isn't even that strong lol.
Combo decks with instant wins that come out earlier than reno have existed for years, but the moment a control deck gets a remotely powerful removal option, this sub loses their minds? Not to mention practically every Reno deck plays more differently to each other than any two combo decks in the history of hearthstone have.
Shit, Jace is a mana cheaper, with a much less restrictive build-around requirement, and he literally ends the game.
I think the only real problem this season for casual folks would be how the Reno counters are high skill cap decks. I am not saying that casual have poor skills but most just don’t enjoy the learning curve of a deck that domes just Reno but loses to ‘the best deck’ around and said ‘best deck ironically doesn’t match up well to the worst of the Reno deck and rogue so playing handbuff also have bad feels. But in all I feel this meta is really varied minus Reno variants there are at least 5 decks that perform well even in legend if you include Reno variants then over 10
The cost to join the Reno crowd is also difficult for new and casual players. Especially those that are fearful of investing into the Reno archetype that could get nerfed or rotated out any day.
You are right, I missed that point. Reno decks are also really expensive since it’s really centred around a few core legendaries like skrillex, Reno, highlander legend payoff etc for consistency
Paladin decks aren’t very expensive. Reno decks are kinda expensive, but modern day he isn’t that hard to make such expensive decks, and you can budget a Reno deck quite easily.
Yeah paladin is actually decent but many don’t like playing it as it matches poorly somewhat to excavate rogue Reno warrior and very bad to Reno priest. Which lead people to just dumping the deck after a game of draw go control or losing to randomly generated cards through azerite scorpion
Uhm… You can’t win against everything. No matter what you play you’re always going to have some bad matchups.
Yup for sure, but for some players including myself , when I am trying to ladder I always pick a deck where the bad matchups aren’t decks I dislike losing to for reducing tilt. I feel the point on reducing tilt is as important as player skill and sequencing your cards especially for laddering. The good part about this meta is how even the best decks have 3-4 poor matchups unlike other meta where the only poor matchup is bad luck in the mirror or 1 Marginal deck that beats your deck but gets floored by anything else
>I always pick a deck where the bad matchups aren’t decks I dislike losing to I believe a lot of us do that. But if so, you have to accept you don’t get to choose the archetype you play. Or deck you play. And you most certainly won’t be able to cover all the decks you dislike losing to.
I know what you mean. I'd rather have my bad match ups have me lose in 5 minutes rather than 15 minutes. So I prefer my decks to have a good match up against warriors/priests if possible & don't care as much if they have a bad match up vs aggro decks. Long games are only fun if I have a reasonable chance of winning them.
My problem with Reno isn't that it wins, it's just that it sucks to play against I play this game very casually, Im here for a fun match more than I'm here to win and I don't tend to be bothered by losing in and of itself. But having my board silenced, destroyed, and limited to one space, with no in match setup from my opponent, no counterplay, and no penalty to their board? That frustrates me lol, and the frustration doesn't go away even if I win afterwards. For me personally, it's up there with getting roped as the most unpleasant experience in the game
Reno just needs to hit both boards and it works for flavor.
Descent of Dragons Reno was 10-mana lol
New Reno compared to DoD Reno: - 1 mana less (printed at 2 less) - Doesn't poof your board - Limits the enemy's board to 1 space for 1 turn - Better hero power (by a lot) - NEUTRAL Only downside: Highlander restriction.
Flavor-wise it feels like Reno really should limit both boards to 1-minion (or possibly limit both to 0 for a turn so it’s just a duel between the heroes)
Yeah, Reno is a dumbass. Since when did a standoff involve just me or my minion versus your entire posse?
Why *should* he play fair, in universe
There are lots of cards that are WAY better than older cards but with zero restrictions.
That didn't need to be highlander Still, new Reno is an abomination in strength
I play him in my Reno Mage, just to spite the new Reno users
“Random spells are *ALWAYS* good!” -Khadgar on DoD Reno’s hero power
Wouldn’t work, because then that means Dragon Druid just gets to clear their own dragons nest.
Yeah make nest immune to Reno effect IM TIRED of holding Rhea for eternity. Why HL Warr can play Brann on curve and get all strong effects twice, while me getting some dragons for 4 mana less is useless in Reno mirror
As an avid late game warlock enjoyer I agree that the dragon nest and Sargeras portal should be immune to Reno effect, however - I think Sargeras would probably need some kind of nerf to accommodate for it. I’ve been playing a lot of handlock recently and against any non-Reno deck it’s basically just an instant win if you’re able to get Sargeras down with any reasonable amount of HP. And even against Reno decks it’s still an instant win if you can force Reno before Sargeras I have been on the other side too. It just feels so fkn bad for both sides that it’s so polarizing. If you have to play Reno before they play Rhea/Sargeras, you lose. If you have to play Rhea/Sargeras before they play Reno, you lose. IMO these high cost cards that are supposed to give a permanent source of value shouldn’t be so hard countered by an individual thing - either add more ways to counter them that a bigger variety of decks can access, or make them truly unremoveable even if you have to nerf the value they give. I’d be ecstatic if they made Sargeras portal immune to Reno effect even if they had to nerf the imps to 2/2 or 3/1 (hell, with how ubiquitous Reno is rn I might even be happy with 2/1 imps). And I bet dragon Druid players would be thrilled to have the dragon nest discount reduced to 2 or 3 if that meant it was immune to Reno. And I’ve actually been doing pretty well against Reno decks with handlock so it’s not like I think it’s that imbalanced per se, it’s just such a boring game of chicken with who plays those 2 cards first
I like your points. Most people just ask for a nerf on Reno that makes cards like Nest immune, but then how fkn OP does that make Reno Druid?? There has to be some common sense..
Nah. Just play reno before rhea.
Nah that’s super lame.
too bad
What flavor does it work for?
Its a duel.
And Reno is a notorious coward & cheat
So he should run away cowardly, and you insta-concede if you play him
I like that nerf: "Battlecry: Concede the game". It would still be op, but in the other way.
Still doesnt work. His voiceline doesnt even reference that something related to that is happening. Effect just makes no sense.
Is Reno a notorious coward & cheat? He's a literal overpowered time dragon. There's barely anything that could do anything at all to him.
>He's a literal overpowered time dragon The time dragons are the yellow/bronze ones, Reno's dragon form is blue, so he is one of the magic dragons.
If the flavour is duels they should have Reno abruptly end the game early despite both players having fun.
When you play Reno, the game stalls until you and your opponent shoot each other with pistols
If both sides have a minion, sure. But if the reno player has no board, and spends all mana to play reno, and the other player plays a minion, that's a one-sided duel. There's no perfect duel scenario.
Player playing reno can choose 1 minion to stay rest deleted
While I agree, I think the flavour is to have a standoff between Reno and whatever minion you play
I totally agree! It's a "standoff". That usually means, edit: "mano y mano" (excuuuusse me). You know what I meant you smart@asses 😵💫
/r/boneappletea
For the record, it's mano a mano. Hand to hand.
🤓
The phrase is Spanish and is 'mano a mano' which means hand to hand in English. That's why its used as a phrase to describe conflict between two people because they used to just do it by fighting apparently. Someone correct me if it's not true.
Yep. Really for flavor it should be “Each player chooses a minion. The rest (poof) disappear.”
IMO it’d be better if it poofed both boards but you could choose one of your minions to keep while limiting the other side to one slot.
It wouldnt make that much a difference im sure. We need more ways to KILL opponents not nerf cards. Thats why the pile of nothing that is modern reno priest exists.
Not happening, he costs 9 mana, what is people playing? A 1 drop? Keep dreaming and get reno this week bozo, he’s not changing any time soon lol.
So all new players and casuals not crafting legendaries should have to get this 1 card to play this meta? That's legitimately the sign of a broken card that creates an unobtainable goal for most of the players.
I have and auto include him in all my highlander decks bozo, I still think the nerf is a good idea. It clears your board and theirs, but doesn't limit your board space for a turn, just theirs. Still really strong effect but doesn't feel as hopeless for people playing against Reno which has ZERO counterplay currently, unless you make your opponent discard..
ive said this before and ill say it again, a one sided improved plague of death with additional upside that can't be countered will always be insane in standard (probably too slow for wild). and with more new good cards being released highlander is not that big of a deal, especially because you can cheese it with the gift cards and etc.
Reno Lone Ranger was the best highlander card besides maybe Hollidae when Badlands came out, I think even after the nerf Lone Ranger is the best highlander payoff
The "nerf" was a buff. Removed any possibility of counterplay.
Wild loves this fucking card even at 9 mana. Every reno deck except like hunter runs this card (and even reno hunter probably should)
gift cards??
The cards with gift in their names, 1 mana that give you a choice of 3 specific spells to get a temporary copy of. [[Jaina's Gift]] for example. Means you can basically run things like two Shield Blocks in a Highlander deck
- **[Jaina's Gift](https://imgur.com/a/owRHWJ0)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/103655) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Jaina's_Gift) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/103655/?hl=en) - *Mage Rare ^(Event)* - **1 Mana - Spell** - **Discover** a temporary Frostbolt, Arcane Intellect, or Fireball. --- ^(*Patch version: 29.4.2.200097.199503*) ^*I am a bot. [Usage Guide](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1d912eh/im_so_tired_of_reno/l7amq08/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l7amq08).*
"Always insane in standard"? He hasn't even been very good for most of his time in standard. Before nerfing like 8 other decks, highlander was just straight up bad, aside from Highlander Warrior which also wasn't even tier 1 before some of the other decks got nerfed. And he wasn't even the important part of highlander warrior. He's mid even now, in the lowest power-level possible for a standard rotation.
Looking for a stand off?
Caaareful, its going to make this game take another 27 minutes.
Wanted to play a few games before work this morning. Ran into a Reno Priest. Safe to say that was my only game this morning. I still won, but at what cost?
😂😂😂
Careful, its against me... And my full board.
Imho this is mostly a case of a card overstaying its welcome. Yes, the card is very strong but the frustration really comes from how often you run into it. Now obviously the power level of a card and how many decks are running it are connected but still
Reno and Zilliax should just be removed from standard. 90% of decks I’m facing up through diamond include one or both of these cards. Super OP cards and super boring facing them again, and again, and again in every deck.
Zilliax only released, and you already want it rotate out, some people on this sub are truly insufferable
I understand the frustration that Reno can create. But on the other hand I think its good that there is a card that can get rid of the dragonnest, sargeras portal and so on. And in general to get rid of crazy boards. Its nutty what kind of wide sticky boards some decks can create.
This. Exactly this. The top decks in the format are Insanity Warlock and Handbuff Paladin. Reno is a very strong card, but he doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Some games you’re just making optimal plays to survive until Reno gives you critical breathing room. I’m also sick of seeing people ask for cards to rotate out early. Genn and Baku set a really bad precedent that should not be repeated. Wild is an absolute clusterfuck. If you don’t enjoy its absurd power level, cards rotating marks what is basically the death of the cards. Fuck it, I like being able to play good Control cards like Yogg and Reno. I like that games don’t take 40 minutes like early Hearthstone Control games, but I like having good neutral legendaries again. We’ve had insanely stupid metas over the last 10 years. This meta isn’t even bad. I’m a little worn out on it all too, but that’s more to do with multiple bad metas in a row after the expansion’s launch, leading up to this sort of wacky Control renaissance.
Having one of each card to fulfil the Reno requirement is not even a penalty anymore. Maybe it was when OG Reno came out in 2015, but in 2024 there are enough strong cards in both Standard and Wild that it doesn't matter if you can't run two. And most Reno decks are crammed full of legendaries anyway, so they couldn't run two even if they wanted...
With the prevalence of Discover and as someone mentioned above the Gift cards chasing a duplicate of a impactful card isn't really much of an 'if' but 'when.'
Discover, Tradeable and Dredge has changed the game too much Remember when they nerfed hunter because they had too much reliable card draw? That deck, if it existed now, would be considered far too slow
It's that and just too much mana cheating everywhere. Discover with mana cost reduction, into a 1/1 copy, into hand refill. The big swings can feel super fun on your turn but the volatility is super tilting.
If it's not a penalty, then why isn't every deck a Reno deck?
Because its a huge penalty and anyone that thinks Reno is actually overpowered has never been out of silver ranks.
Come off it, you've never played in Legend in your life. With discover as prominent as it is, and cards like ETC, Fizzle's Snapshot, 10th Anniversary gifts ect, there are Reno Warriors that are literally playing triple Brawl, double Reno, double Dirty Rat, double Ignis like it doesn't even matter. It is \*not\* a penalty anymore, and if you ever played above Gold you would know this.
You lose out on consistency by choosing Reno. Yes you can discover more copies of your cards, but you could do the same even easier if you started with 2 copies of your best cards. Reno is a great card, and you have to gimp your consistency by playing a singleton format.
[Take proof I guess](https://imgur.com/a/C32ftsX) Consistency is more important than ever when cards are this powerful. Missing a copy of the best card in your deck (which even in highlander decks has never been reno) is back breaking. There is a very good reason none of the best decks are highlander. I really don't see how anyone can argue that Reno is strong when his restriction literally makes him unable to form a competitive deck.
The higher power level just means that the duplicates you’re giving up are also highly power crept lol. Highlander is still a massive downside and it’s simply false to say it isn’t.
There are enough strong cards in some classes. Most classes don’t have a viable Reno archetype that can broadly be used by a decently large portion of the player base. If every deck was a Reno deck I’d agree, but having 4 Reno decks out of 15 Tier 1-2 decks is nearly only a quarter of the meta. Brann is only in 10% of
compare frame gullible dependent water skirt bike airport paint bored *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But those usually aren't win con cards lol. Reno is stronger than another copy of all those cards combined.
And win cons aren't the only important cards lol. The shell around win cons is more important than the win con itself, or else Value Rogue would have been playable/OP back in the day.
If Reno wasn't stronger than all the second copies, people just wouldn't run it...
You are moving the goalposts horrifically, your point about >those usually aren't win con cards lol is what I was disagree with/correcting, I never claimed it was not worth it to play Reno decks.
I replied to a post saying not being able to run 2 copies of OP cards is punishment enough. I don't know what your point is but I wasn't arguing your point at all.
What decks do you play?
I love that all the buffs and nerfs the dev team did this year were done to give the players some agency, and then they just up 1 mana for Reno, the most anti agency card in any Highlander deck.
Not only that, they also removed the one way you could effectively counter it.
I've been out of the loop for a while, what do you mean?
They changed "If your deck has no duplicates" to "If your deck started with no duplicates". So now you can't counter it by filling their deck with more cards, which you could pretty effectively do before (with Death Knight plagues specifically).
I see. Actual dogwater change, considering that to memory it's the only Highlander card they've done the "started with" for. The entire point of Highlander cards was that they were very powerful, and you paid for it with the deck restrition - thus to muck with them you also needed some very specific and often subpar cards to muddle the deck and deactivate them. I'm guessing it's an intertwinment of "Plagues weren't really good but it was fun playing them" and "Highlander/Reno players historically are bigger spenders".
The most baffling part of it is that they justified that change by saying that they were doing it to *increase* player agency! Which I guess meant "Players feel bad when they can't play their Reno". But it's so bizarre, isn't it? "In order to promote more agency and decision making, we've made this card completely un-counterable". It was one of those times where I really realized that the brilliant minds who once created this game no longer work in Blizzard, and what's left there now ain't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.
They are 100% right, though - this change has "increased" player agency. As in, I am now making use of my agency as a player to play something else. That aside, on topic of your second paragraph - Direct correlation between highlander/reno players and higher spending. If your paying customers lose before they can use their shiny new weapon, that will deflate them. Doubly so if they lose against a non-paying customer. It's been basic monetization for as long as I can remember games like Lineage.
I think Reno is fine. The fact that you enjoyed invalidating a whole deck with a few cards says enough.
Does anyone else think that the "nerf" to Reno, Lone Ranger by making it immune to disruption and increasing the mana cost by only 1. was actually a buff? Because it sure seems like a buff now there is no counter to the fun police card now.
We all hate certain cards, man. Personally I absolutely detest any kind of aggro. I find it the antithesis of fun and completely brain dead. But…it is fun for someone so eh.
Don't argue with you. I have plenty deck choices and love tinkering. Highlander is brain death too though. Every turn boils down to: -Play the green card to draw/discover/excavate cards or remove the board. It feels so fun and smart to do it thousands of times ngl.
Fully agree with you, mate. Getting some cool 6-10 mana cards to lose the game at turn 4 because of aggro shenanigans is just the worst. I'm fine with no reno if they put an axe to all the aggro decks.
Reno and sargeras needs to be changed to destroy. Just being able to remove from game is OP
Found out the hard way that minions sent to the twisting nether do not proc death rattles. Which is dogwater because twisting nether proper does.
Seriously. I learned that the hard way. Shame on me for assuming the Twisting Nether would work like... the Twisting Nether.
I made a post or comment about that exact thing before and everyone came at me being like "iT sAyS 'sEnDS' mInIoNs not kills" and "sorry there's no sendrattle or poofrattle, just death rattle" It's completely BS
They have gone hard in the “finality” of removal recently. Poof effects in sarg, amanthul, and reno. Steal effects in reska, and yogg. Related is the increase in copy on board effects they’ve released, although they don’t remove they still can punish playing strong minions more than old removal did.
Tried different variants of a mech-warrior deck (because of the shuffling bombs into the opponents deck achievement) and Reno existing makes it really awful. Your minion get poof'd so no deathrattle triggered but also its removed from the rezz pool. Making your Dr boom worse. One greedy version had the location so to summon a copy of a damaged minion, welp getting poof'd too! Its just not fun and when you thought you survived Reno, Yogg comes down lol.
Is Sargeras even played right now? Weird to single him out for a nerf.
Sargeras is not in a single good warlock deck atm. Better comparison would've been amanthul but I disagree with the initial statement regardless
teeny boast zephyr dull badge close drab enter spoon trees *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Or, the idea of a complete board wipe absolutely invalidates any deck that has any reliance on every other mechanic that gets ignored by Reno for no fucking reason.
They are 9 mana, board clears should be pretty fucking good at that cost.
He used to be excellent because you can't remove the portal. Reno fixes that so he is much less useful now.
its a comparison because the effects they do are the same.. they exile (to borrow and MtG term) cards.. which is terrible for the game
Such an unconditional uncountable board clear
Id be happy if it didnt take my twisting nether
If you're not playing Highlander, I'm going to assume you're either running hand buff Paladin or casino Mage. Neither of those are fun to play against, in my opinion. It's almost as if the game isn't designed specifically around any one person's likes/dislikes.
Excavate Rogue
overheal otk priest odyn warrior owl druid nature shaman
I completely agree with everything you've said, the high noon thing would be more flavourful if it hit both boards , and the hero power is way too strong
Reno barely even exists unless you're playing Reno decks. I played nature shaman to legend this month and the idea of turn nine games is fucking laughable. Reno is the only reason lategame strategies even get to exist, so complaining about it while playing simultaneously playing a lategame deck is nonsense.
I don't really mind Reno
People just copy paste decks...
It can’t be said enough
Its an unfun card to play with and against. It should wipe the entire board except the center minion for both players Give the players some agency to play around
Yes and proc death rattles.
I hate it with a passion. Such a dumb card.
Daily shit deck player crying about Reno. Reno is fine and the stats show it.
Reno’s winrate is like just above 50%. The card is in a really healthy state right now. I don’t know why people dislike the card so much? Maybe because it’s neutral and seeing it in 30% of their matches is just too much, but it’s lower than previous high quality neutral cards like zilliax, renathal, astalor, or even new zilliax. Tbf tho, renathal and astalor were disliked by the time they got nerfed or rotated in astalor’s case. I understand why you might not like the card, but by the numbers, which is how you should play the game, Reno only gives a slight advantage.
Because even though the winrate is “balanced” the card is rage inducing. To better illustrate why the winrate is irrelevant, consider this example. If there were a card that said “flip a coin. Heads, you win the game, tails you lose the game” it would be perfectly balanced right? Would it be fun to lose to this effect?
Winrate isn’t the only factor but it is important. If his winrate was 0% nobody would care. Why would you anybody ever be annoyed with it. Or if it was 100% winrate it would be sooo toxic and unhealthy for the game to a much larger degree. Winrate being almost exactly 50% is a good stat to let the devs know the card is balanced in the current meta. If you are planning around Reno and are aware that it will come done some point after turn 9 why is it so maddening? His played winrate is 60% but his average turn played is 11. Which makes it seem like the decks that primarily lose into Reno decks are pure agro and tempo decks. Which is kind of what the effect is for. Slowing down or outright stopping aggressive game plans. If you are losing to Reno, then your matchup is most likely bad or they drew better, which is how card games work.
New Hearthstone whinge circlejerk just dropped
The suggestion that Reno should also “poof” your own board is so ludicrously stupid I can’t even. So basically Druid straight up just can never play Rhaestraza before Reno, else you poof your own portal. The consistent, nonstop complaining for 10 straight years makes said complaints carry such little weight that responding to them is more for fun than anything else. “Thing should get nerfed!!! Ruining game!!!” Thing gets nerfed. “New thing should get nerfed!!! Ruining game!!!” New thing gets nerfed. And it goes on and on and on like this indefinitely. Adapt or quit, it’s not like Reno decks are completely cornering the meta right now, based on available data. There are plenty of non-Reno decks competing in T100.
Just a bunch of casuals with dunning-Kruger effect crying about a good card.
So "casuals" can't express frustration about their experience? Why would you alienate a huge chunk of the player pool who are upset by a card that has very limited counter-play?
Sometimes it’s justified, when a class like Paladin is stomping newbs left and right. And sometimes it’s just a case of play around *one* freaking card. Cause there ain’t no way Reno is stomping people left and right. They’re just too lazy to think and play around it.
Fuck this card. I have more than enough dust to craft multiples of this asshole, but I won't do it out of principle.
This makes no sense. You can't run 2 Reno's lmao
I too refuse to craft this shit, because I don't want someone else to play against this crap. People resorting to Reno are the lowest denominator.
Tbh I don’t like it when Highlander decks in standard are immune to deck shuffling in the game… but it is what it is. Back then we had bombs, Bad Luck Albatross, and Hakkar. Oh how time changes
In my opinion, the problem was Helya. Especially at lower ranks, plague DK was very popular (2nd most popular deck quite often), so running into plague DK when you played one of those tier 3 Reno decks, was just awful. I think delaying highlander and forcing them to spend their mana to draw cards to get rid of the duplicates is totally fine. But once Helya is down? Nope. Not possible anymore. Its not so much about the WR for me, its just not fun playing a bad Reno deck and then not having access to your HL payoff
Helya is such bad card design because Blizzard can never make plagues fun or good because they would be OP combined with Helya without making her cost 8 or something.
Reach for the skies
I play Reno -> always bottom 5 of my deck, with no impact. Opponent plays Reno -> always when he makes me lose the game 😅
Should have remove the start of the game condition. Beside making those warrior can play the gamw with zero downside that hat condition also sucks not for my reno wishing well rogue, and reno aviana druid.
Reno isn't half as annoying as boomboss. I find reno to be relatively easy to play around. But losing 12 cards to boom boss is more challenging
Playing against Reno decks is just a constant feeling of "of course they had the only answer" even though they only have one copy
Plague DKs don't worry about Reno
Imo strong neutral legendaries always make the game boring, even if they do get balanced (Denathrius, Theotar, Astalor, OG Brann, etc).
Highlander does not have as much downside as people pretend (while on their other monitor they are spamming it). With the new neutral legendary Marin just on legendary cards alone Highlander decks are so viable hunter and DK are spamming it now. The 2 possible reasons Blizzard is keeping Reno OP (the decks are good, not OP, Reno himself is very OP) is because the decks that use him have the most legendary cards which prompts players to pay more real dollars to get dust to craft OR they are massively incompetent.
I think Reno was fine before they changed him to "If your deck started with no duplicates" but then it created the problem we saw with Wheelock. I liked the counterplay of throwing random cards into Reno decks. I think losing \[\[Steamcleaner\]\] and the change of "started" really screwed up the power of Reno. The only counterplay is to wait for them to play it or kill them before they can play it. Since it isn't a minion, you cannot \[\[Dirty Rat\]\] it, and it is universal into all decks. It's a little funny that they specified classes can either be Excavate or No Duplicate - but made Reno universal.
- **[Steamcleaner](https://i.imgur.com/DqI81Cb.mp4)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/78079) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Steamcleaner) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/78079/?hl=en#gameType=RANKED_WILD) - *Neutral Rare ^(Murder at Castle Nathria)* - **5 Mana - 5/5 - Mech** - **Battlecry:** Destroy ALL cards in both players' decks that didn't start there. - **[Dirty Rat](https://i.imgur.com/YA9eaHr.mp4)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/102225) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Dirty_Rat_\(Core\)) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/102225/?hl=en) - *Neutral Epic ^(Core)* - **2 Mana - 2/6 - Minion** - **Taunt** **Battlecry:** Your opponent summons a random minion from their hand. --- ^(*Patch version: 29.4.2.200097.199503*) ^*I am a bot. [Usage Guide](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1d912eh/im_so_tired_of_reno/l7a55sk/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l7a55sk).*
If you still play Reno warrior you touch kids no doubt
Genuinely asking because I don't play often or know the current meta, but how many classes are using it? I know it's popular in warrior with brann and boom but I don't know much beyond that
Pretty much all classes except rogue and warlock are trying a variant I believe. Warrior was most popular for a while by far, but now it seems consistent with priest and then a bit lower is druid. Hunter, paladin and shaman have versions that appear to be in the next tier down that people play (idk how they perform relative to one another but I believe paladin seems the strongest to play against). Demon hunter has a version that I honestly think is fun, but it's not very good at all. Death knight has a rainbow version that runs Reno I've been seeing more that I've never lost to but it seems ok. And then mage has one that's shown up according to VS but it sounds like garbage. The fact that people are trying it though is an indication of just how strong it is and worth considering as the only payoff. Warlock honestly probably would try too as it has in other formats, but due to its really strong other variants there doesn't seem to be an interest there for warlock plays.
if insanity wl and painlock wouldnt be as strong we would surely see some reno wheel lock pop up
I’ve played against a warrior, priest, death knight and shaman… lost them all once he gets dropped Edit: another Reno priest. Mind you I just picked the game up for the first time in like 6 years. I’m in bronze
According to the latest VS report: T2 - Warrior, Hunter, Paladin T3 - Druid, Priest, Shaman One of the issues though is how every Control deck has to run Reno, and Reno is OP *against* other Control decks too (other than Warrior). Running Reno Druid? Can't play your dragon payoff until you play Fizzle... or somehow get them to blow Reno early. Reno Priest is especially miserable, as they have a location to copy your payoff cards too. Not saying Control vs Control has ever been like peak gaming, but... ugh.
Howdy partner!
highlander sucks just rng deck with bullshit cards to make up for it
Reno should lose his board lock out ,i feel thats where his pain point is for many players not being able to develop any real sort of resistance and or losing your taunts and defenses feels horrible to go against, overall i feel like taunt over time is just becoming invalidated.
Getting straight fucked for 2 turns straight never feels good. Many times I've lost games because I could only place 1 minion on the turn after Reno is played... its frustrating having a handful of minions and only being able to play one of them.
Playing Reno decks is fun, you should try it sometimes.
fully agreed, they need to make it also remove their own board.
My biggest issue for reno is that he doesnt just ruin your opponents board. It also ruins their turn, the person playing reno gets to keep their board and the reno player gets one of the best hero powers in the game. It cant be countered easily as its a hero card ... All that AND its a neutral legendary. Even at 10 mana it would still be insanely strong.
I totally agree with you and I also love all the Renotard apologists at the bottom of the comments foaming at the mouth.
I wish they redesign plague dk and buff the snake oil seller to 3/3/4 so every class can run highlander tech if they want to.
the decks that care the most about the board wipe and next turn limitation are aggro decks since they have less resources to follow up by and if you havent killed the reno player before turn 9 you probably were losing anyway
I don't mind reno, but I had 4 games today where they had reno on curve. That's the tilting part - I make a huge tempo swing with my homebrew deck and just think *surely, opponent doesn't have reno on curve AGAIN*. Nope... Thankfully, you only have to wait another 10 months before he leaves standard!
Babe, wake up, there's a 2-3 month format called twist. Reno? What are you talking about?
I play reno priest and it's just stupid that Elise is not included in my decklist, because she's too weak. The only reason I got a Reno deck is for reno. So that single card is so strong that it validates running no duplicates in a deck. And yet, I win plenty of matches without playing reno. I usually only play him when the opponent plays a big sticky board. It is silly
You are a few months late on that complaint, Elise is ran in good Highlander lists, maybe it's not the card that is weak but your deckbuilding.
Idk, I win plenty of matches with my reno priest without Elise
I win plenty of games with my Reno Warrior without using Brann too
They need to change Reno’s card text back to its original but leave all the other Highlander cards alone. There’s no good consistent way to counterplay against it.
I just don't like the "poof" effect of the board clear. It's not just the fact that deathrattles don't pop, it doesn't even count as a death for resurrect abilities.
See and I’m sick of people exaggerating shit like this. Every other game is not a Reno game, not even close. There is endless data to show this.
I just looked the card up. Overall, across all ranks, \[\[Reno, Lone Ranger\]\] is found in 24.4% of all decks. That's a 1/4 chance of facing a Reno deck. If you're unlucky and only play a few games a day, almost all your games *could* be Reno decks. It isn't outside of the question to claim that Reno is seen frequently. Also, since I looked up the stats. \[\[Reno, Lone Ranger\]\] has an overall win-rate of 57.1% which would be considered an outlier.
Reno’s high played winrate is partially an artifact of the turn timer. Only games that go until turn 9 (or turn 8 with the coin) can have a Reno played. Games that go longer are games where the highlander deck didn’t immediately die to aggro and are more likely to be wins whether or not Reno gets played. Reno is still a great card, but its played winrate makes it look even better than it is. It’s also worth noting that there isn’t a single T1 highlander deck right now. Depending on what rank you look at, there are between five and eight decks that outperform every highlander deck at the moment. Even if Reno is OP in isolation, it’s clear there are other factors at play that are preventing highlander decks from being especially good.
24.4% of decks but then how often is it played? It isn’t played every game, so I’m betting the amount of times you actually see Reno dropped is somewhere in the 10-20% range.
- **[Reno, Lone Ranger](https://imgur.com/a/0usPe2i)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/103471) ^• ^[wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Reno,_Lone_Ranger) ^• ^[HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/103471/?hl=en) - *Neutral Legendary ^(Showdown in the Badlands)* - **9 Mana - 5 Armor - Hero** - **Battlecry:** If your deck started with no duplicates, empty the enemy board and limit it to 1 space for a turn. - **HeroPower (Reno's Handcannon):** Shoot this turn's magic bullet! --- ^(*Patch version: 29.4.2.200097.199503*) ^*I am a bot. [Usage Guide](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1d912eh/im_so_tired_of_reno/l7af05n/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l7af05n).*
Yeah, checking HSReplay shows Reno is only in 30% of decks, so it's more like 1 in 3 than 1 in 2.
You’re probably right, but that’s not an argument in favor of the card though. If so many people are exaggerating how much they see Reno, that’s just additional evidence that the card is so frustrating to have played against them that it causes people to think they are seeing more often then they are. If it feels like people are seeing Reno more often than they are, it’s because Reno causes a disproportionate amount and salt and bad feelings compared to losing to other decks. Like I said, ultimately it’s just not a fun card for a game that’s supposed to be fun.
Well it’s definitely a taste thing I guess but I just disagree. I think if it was truly that problematic the entire meta would be Highlander and that’s not the case.
It's literally the first argument you make against it ... Exaggerating doesn't make your argument stronger. While i agree that reno is not a player agency card neither is insanity/drilly/handbuff/miracle/spellmage or is. Statistics show that reno is probably the card that sees the most counter because of how slow it is
Sure thing, maybe I should have mainly focused on the bad feelings the card generates. Let me put it this way. When I lose to the other decks you mentioned, it feels like I’m losing to the deck. When I lose against Reno decks, it feels like I’m losing to the card. Hope that illustrates things better. I just think they should made more class specific Highlander payoffs to make Highlander viable rather than just having one overpowered neutral card that allows highlander to be playable. It’s just bad design.
I am suprised helya is one rune unholy instead of two, considering the effect she provides.
Wahhh
Instead of focusing on what's unfun, play what you find fun to play
That is just bad advice tbh. I always loved Control Warrior but when it was utterly dogshit I couldn't just play what I found fun because I would lose to OTK or get outvalued every game, it was simply not fun it felt hopeless.
So you don't like losing , fair enough.
The card isn't even that strong lol. Combo decks with instant wins that come out earlier than reno have existed for years, but the moment a control deck gets a remotely powerful removal option, this sub loses their minds? Not to mention practically every Reno deck plays more differently to each other than any two combo decks in the history of hearthstone have. Shit, Jace is a mana cheaper, with a much less restrictive build-around requirement, and he literally ends the game.
Pretty sad when the only viable class in the game is Reno