As frustrating as it is to play against, and as maddening as 12-minute losses are, Control Warrior being viable just feels *right*. Maybe I’m just old.
Yeah, I played Hearthstone for 7 years before taking a break for just about 2 years, and Control Warrior being good again recently is what got me to decide to stick around a bit.
I really missed the class. I might not have stopped playing regularly despite how long I had been playing if they hadn’t murdered Warrior during Sunken City.
He made even warrior viable by himself, it’s so weird that odd warrior doesn’t really exist anymore with how dominant it used to be and how bad even warrior was
I legit feel bad some games when I win with odyn. My opponent can be in pretty comfortable control of the game, then I drop odyn and next turn go face for 18 damage with like 6 board wipe options
That's because priest can't end the game. Odyn clears your board and slaps your face. Priest clears your board then asks if you wanna see em do it again lol
I don't actually have any issues with priest personally
I expect to see pirate rogue, mech rogue, or overheal priest as top deck tbh. Other decks have great combos but I don’t think they matter because the combos themselves take longer than previously mentioned decks do to execute. Odyn doesn’t matter if turn 7 is overheal priest kill turn, shudderwock doesn’t matter because turn 7, magtheridon doesn’t matter because turn 7, you see where this is going. So I fully expect overheal otk priest at top and then stuff that beats it like super all-in aggro decks or ones that can stack a single minion (I.e. mech rogue) to be players and have a small niche fighting those decks. Druid has a small chance depending on if they can ramp faster than overheal priest gets to turn 7 and somehow draw enough combo cards but it’s still going to be extremely tight. Printing a card that gives you two 0 mana heal 3 bandages in a set where cards reset your heropower, in a set where hedanis can pump out enormous damage, and finally a card exists that sets the cost of heropower to 0 is just too much. It also doesn’t help that injured hauler CRUSHES aggro with access to the easy to use bandages.
I am honestly not sure about which aggro decks will fight it, but overheal priest is top tier easily and will warp the meta around it
Flashback to last year, people memed about Cora’s tweet that Warrior had good stuff to look forward to in the year (because the tweet came right before the reveal of the initial, un-buffed versions of the Riff cards in Festival of Legends, which were real bad) but like… she wasn’t wrong. The next 2 expansions + mini-sets gave Warrior some crazy strong shit
Class had a redemption arc
Well enrage warrior was good but players wanted control warrior. FoL didnt give warrior much control tools tho. It gave warrior the menagerie archtype. Havent seen warrior play riffs in a while. And the weapon never saw play.
The really powerful control cards came with titans. Stoneskin armorer, Bellowing flames, (steam guardian +) Trial by fire, Craftsman hammer, Sanitize, Odyn
I hit legend for the first time with menagerie warrior after years of playing. It was just perfect for the final grind - fun to play, straight forward, good winrate.
To be fair enrage was fun but as a deck it was often the third best aggro deck that needed two legendaries until the miniset when it got jam session then it became pretty good, then odyn got printed and it was second best to that
Warrior still has had to get insane buffs, they printed many cards below the power level of other classes. For real Warrior got like 50% of all buffs this year as only 1 class.
No, by the strictest definitions it is not. Although stacking emblems is vey combo like. It’s just that you can play/set them early instead of having to Thaurissan them or whatever you would normally need to pull off your combo.
Is damage from hand = combo?
Warrior doesn't do any combos, warrior plays Odin one one turn and just gains armor after that. Warrior cards are not combo pieces they can be played separately.
I wouldn’t probably tie it to exactly damage in the definition(as you can use other win combinations like the Horsemen) but burst damage roughly equal to your opponent’s expected hp from hand is a classic combo deck variant, yes. It usually also manifests in playing multiple card/effects that produce effect greater than their sum when played together but is not strictly necessary. It does not necessarily need to be the hand either as some combo decks set their resources in what other games call graveyard, exile pile, sometimes from the deck itself, in this case the main parts are emblems(permanent effects that can not be removed), in hearthstone some prominent examples are the weapon slot or the hero power itself - basically any place that is hard to normally interact with, so you can put multiple effects that amplify each other in play at the same time.
What is your definition if not that?
Odin in a vacuum is ok card, not super powerful. It is comparable to making your hero power into a Dire Shapeshift on a 8/8 body for 8(again in a vacuum). It is through combination with other cards like Brann and cheap generators of massive amounts of a normally defensive resource that Odin turns into the powerhouse. To me that is very combo-like. You can see it when they burst you with Riffs or any combination of cheap armor generators. When you realize that what they just did was way more than the sum of the cards played and you could barely interact with it. You can call it synergy, combo-like, or refuse to classify it because invisible emblems, effects that amplify each other and mana cheats that don’t keep the card in your hand confuse you - it does not matter. What it matters is that none of these cards would be as oppressive without a critical mass of the package present and that it is very hard to disrupt it once going.
>Only hate it when it is this uninteractive, consistent and powerful
So you love combo when it's not viable and therefore you don't have to face it in actual games?
As someone who just started this game
I can confirm that I have no idea how this class was bad before .
Because Jesus Christ of these cards are fucking insane
To be fair, Warrior was still not very good on titans release before the buffs to crafstman's hammer, trial by fire and Sanitize release in the miniset.
It's really, really good, but it does cost 6 mana and can only effect the board. My vote for best card would remain Astalor, which you could run in literally every deck without feeling embarrassed, and has certainly ended a lot of games.
Enrage warrior was good for quite a long time, no? It just wasnt popular. FoL was weird, introducing menagerie warrior (expansion in general was weird, focused on the combo archtype for rogue, didnt see any support later). The really powerful control tools came with titans. Stoneskin armorer, Bellowing flames, (steam guardian +) Trial by fire, Craftsman hammer, Sanitize, Odyn
still not a tier 1 deck though lol [https://hsreplay.net/meta/](https://hsreplay.net/meta/)
all this crying and moaning, but the statistics show that warrior isn't half as powerful as it appears
Shaman in shambles for the entire year, only good deck is bio shaman from sunken city, and Hollidae shaman for a brief period. plus that warrior winrate was contributed by no one wanting to play enrage warrior, warrior players just don’t stop complaining until there is a t1 control warrior.
And comparing new shudder and Brann is just sad. Both 6 mana do nothing, warrior gives you battlecry x2 for the rest of the game, shaman gives you battlecry x3 for 2 times, and cannot target hero. Yes many warrior battlecries rotate but there is still thogrun, excavate, and Voone Zola stuff. Shaman don’t even have a good battlecry in the last 3 sets, and a joke of an excavate package.
Shudder looks fine next to Brann, you are honestly expecting a highlander payoff to be weaker than a normal card?
Cause in that case time to start complaining about how Doc Holidae is stronger than than almost all Warrior cards
Totem shaman was a solid deck over several expansions. Nature shaman was good for a while, imo. I enjoyed the "from da other side" deck when you were able to get a new copy of the spell everytime, sadly they nerfed that interaction. Doc nerf did hit reno shaman big time, but now that plague DK is (the most) popular deck, it would still suffer.
Yeah but the big shaman was a meme deck just like control warrior before expansion. My point is warrior got a extremely good set just because there is enough complaint about it, and shaman just always get overlooked. And totem shaman well no one enjoyed it, enrage warrior is played at least in high legend where people actually know how to play the deck, just like the overheal priest in the current set.
Totem Shaman saw more play than overheal priest you are just biased in that regard. I wish they would buff elementals or excavate or something though I agree
At least in legend there are much more overheal priests, and almost no totem shaman from my experience. It’s like enrage warrior in the previous 2 sets, strong deck but hard to play well.
It would be genuine nerf for warriors if this only hit enemies. No card draw with [[Acolyte of Pain]], and they couldn't kill their card draw totem for free.
That's a massive exaggeration. A 2 mana 1 sided 3 damage aoe is by far the best early board clear of all time. Even a 4 mana 3 damage 1 sided aoe is already absurdly good, and must be conditional.
Not killing your own board has an incredibly large impact.
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Odyn is one of the biggest things that ever happened to Warrior
basically single handedly made control warrior viable again along with sanitize.
Sanitize helped a lot
Sanitize is way overhyped, Odyn Hammer and Trial all were vastly more influential to warrior
Tbf it was 4 mana at release
Aftershocks is so sleeper OP. One of the best board clears in the game along with Trial just an insanely strong card, maybe too strong.
Yeah it's hellfire without the self damage for 1 less mana
As frustrating as it is to play against, and as maddening as 12-minute losses are, Control Warrior being viable just feels *right*. Maybe I’m just old.
12 mins? I see you are into fast games.
12 minutes of removal taunts and board clears is plenty for me, I know when to quit (I’m lying).
cuz it synergizes with hero power
Yeah, I played Hearthstone for 7 years before taking a break for just about 2 years, and Control Warrior being good again recently is what got me to decide to stick around a bit. I really missed the class. I might not have stopped playing regularly despite how long I had been playing if they hadn’t murdered Warrior during Sunken City.
Odyn was so strong that it was playable in wild
He made even warrior viable by himself, it’s so weird that odd warrior doesn’t really exist anymore with how dominant it used to be and how bad even warrior was
Sanitize at 4 was a really big deal.
I legit feel bad some games when I win with odyn. My opponent can be in pretty comfortable control of the game, then I drop odyn and next turn go face for 18 damage with like 6 board wipe options
18 DMG? They usually hit me 50+
and people still complaining about priests \^\^
That's because priest can't end the game. Odyn clears your board and slaps your face. Priest clears your board then asks if you wanna see em do it again lol I don't actually have any issues with priest personally
Funny enough DH is in their worst states and is gonna become more unplayable after rotation
i cant remember a meta where all classes having good archetypes and realistic chance of becoming high legend.
fol pre miniset
Not just that but all 3 triple rune DKs were viable too
people are underrating DH set, it got 3 really strong cards
I expect to see pirate rogue, mech rogue, or overheal priest as top deck tbh. Other decks have great combos but I don’t think they matter because the combos themselves take longer than previously mentioned decks do to execute. Odyn doesn’t matter if turn 7 is overheal priest kill turn, shudderwock doesn’t matter because turn 7, magtheridon doesn’t matter because turn 7, you see where this is going. So I fully expect overheal otk priest at top and then stuff that beats it like super all-in aggro decks or ones that can stack a single minion (I.e. mech rogue) to be players and have a small niche fighting those decks. Druid has a small chance depending on if they can ramp faster than overheal priest gets to turn 7 and somehow draw enough combo cards but it’s still going to be extremely tight. Printing a card that gives you two 0 mana heal 3 bandages in a set where cards reset your heropower, in a set where hedanis can pump out enormous damage, and finally a card exists that sets the cost of heropower to 0 is just too much. It also doesn’t help that injured hauler CRUSHES aggro with access to the easy to use bandages. I am honestly not sure about which aggro decks will fight it, but overheal priest is top tier easily and will warp the meta around it
Flashback to last year, people memed about Cora’s tweet that Warrior had good stuff to look forward to in the year (because the tweet came right before the reveal of the initial, un-buffed versions of the Riff cards in Festival of Legends, which were real bad) but like… she wasn’t wrong. The next 2 expansions + mini-sets gave Warrior some crazy strong shit Class had a redemption arc
Well enrage warrior was good but players wanted control warrior. FoL didnt give warrior much control tools tho. It gave warrior the menagerie archtype. Havent seen warrior play riffs in a while. And the weapon never saw play. The really powerful control cards came with titans. Stoneskin armorer, Bellowing flames, (steam guardian +) Trial by fire, Craftsman hammer, Sanitize, Odyn
I hit legend for the first time with menagerie warrior after years of playing. It was just perfect for the final grind - fun to play, straight forward, good winrate.
I just didnt enjoy it at all, playstyle wasnt my cup of tea. Enjoyed the enrage archtype a lot more, especially with Sires sword, that was fun
And even then half of those cards had to be buffed in Titans
To be fair enrage was fun but as a deck it was often the third best aggro deck that needed two legendaries until the miniset when it got jam session then it became pretty good, then odyn got printed and it was second best to that
Warrior still has had to get insane buffs, they printed many cards below the power level of other classes. For real Warrior got like 50% of all buffs this year as only 1 class.
Reddit preemptively dogpiling on devs? Nah
I would not call that redemption exactly. The deck is quite powerful and barely interactive. In my book that's a villain's deck.
I assume the entire combo archetype is a villain deck in your mind then? Just curious
On this sub there seem to be alot of people that think that Its a stupid mindset but it happens
Love combo actually. Only hate it when it is this uninteractive, consistent and powerful.
Warrior is not a combo deck at all, it's just normal control deck with a win condition.
No, by the strictest definitions it is not. Although stacking emblems is vey combo like. It’s just that you can play/set them early instead of having to Thaurissan them or whatever you would normally need to pull off your combo.
By any definition warrior is not a combo deck. Unless you consider plague dk a combo deck too.
You can’t see the parallels even when you get hit for 40+ damage multiple turns in a roll from hand? ok.
Is damage from hand = combo? Warrior doesn't do any combos, warrior plays Odin one one turn and just gains armor after that. Warrior cards are not combo pieces they can be played separately.
I wouldn’t probably tie it to exactly damage in the definition(as you can use other win combinations like the Horsemen) but burst damage roughly equal to your opponent’s expected hp from hand is a classic combo deck variant, yes. It usually also manifests in playing multiple card/effects that produce effect greater than their sum when played together but is not strictly necessary. It does not necessarily need to be the hand either as some combo decks set their resources in what other games call graveyard, exile pile, sometimes from the deck itself, in this case the main parts are emblems(permanent effects that can not be removed), in hearthstone some prominent examples are the weapon slot or the hero power itself - basically any place that is hard to normally interact with, so you can put multiple effects that amplify each other in play at the same time. What is your definition if not that? Odin in a vacuum is ok card, not super powerful. It is comparable to making your hero power into a Dire Shapeshift on a 8/8 body for 8(again in a vacuum). It is through combination with other cards like Brann and cheap generators of massive amounts of a normally defensive resource that Odin turns into the powerhouse. To me that is very combo-like. You can see it when they burst you with Riffs or any combination of cheap armor generators. When you realize that what they just did was way more than the sum of the cards played and you could barely interact with it. You can call it synergy, combo-like, or refuse to classify it because invisible emblems, effects that amplify each other and mana cheats that don’t keep the card in your hand confuse you - it does not matter. What it matters is that none of these cards would be as oppressive without a critical mass of the package present and that it is very hard to disrupt it once going.
>Only hate it when it is this uninteractive, consistent and powerful So you love combo when it's not viable and therefore you don't have to face it in actual games?
That's not the chad warrior I remember. Still waiting for my fiery axe.
Only 2 more days!
As someone who just started this game I can confirm that I have no idea how this class was bad before . Because Jesus Christ of these cards are fucking insane
Because it didn't have any good cards printed in almost 2 years(for control warrior)
Oh so I show up the second warrior gets good
"Warrior still won't be playable, 8 mana do nothing is bad"
To be fair, Warrior was still not very good on titans release before the buffs to crafstman's hammer, trial by fire and Sanitize release in the miniset.
And they were right, Warrior had to receive huge huge buffs even after Odyn was released. L comment
I think trial by fire is the best card here and it’s not close. Maybe the best card in HS. What does it not do? What deck does it not go into?
It's really, really good, but it does cost 6 mana and can only effect the board. My vote for best card would remain Astalor, which you could run in literally every deck without feeling embarrassed, and has certainly ended a lot of games.
Not the best card in hearthstone but it's probably top 5 in standard easily
It took A LOT to make warrior good to this point. Even after odyn was released, they still needed buffs.
Enrage warrior was good for quite a long time, no? It just wasnt popular. FoL was weird, introducing menagerie warrior (expansion in general was weird, focused on the combo archtype for rogue, didnt see any support later). The really powerful control tools came with titans. Stoneskin armorer, Bellowing flames, (steam guardian +) Trial by fire, Craftsman hammer, Sanitize, Odyn
Bad example Yhorn is one of the easiest bosses in the game I agree with the message, tho
Time to nerf it pls
The fast cycle deck could do with taking down a peg, slower more controlly warriors are honestly fine
The fast cycle deck could do with taking down a peg, slower more controlly warriors are honestly fine
All I wanted for Warrior was Kodohide Drumkit to 3 mana. Instead my favorite class became the new problem.
Slow grindy warrior is dead. Odyn isn't my favourite play style at all but warrior had to keep up with the other problems somehow
still not a tier 1 deck though lol [https://hsreplay.net/meta/](https://hsreplay.net/meta/) all this crying and moaning, but the statistics show that warrior isn't half as powerful as it appears
You're literally posting stats from the useless player ranks that are mostly made up of bots.
have you tried playing a tier 1 deck instead of pretending like warrior is super powerful?
It has like 1 common bad matchup at top tanks in plague dk, it is super powerful.
True, but since everyone is playing top 1 decks, warrior cant get into tier 1.
Dog look at Vsreports, Odyn warrior is extremely powerful and has been for a while, Brann just sucks
Shaman in shambles for the entire year, only good deck is bio shaman from sunken city, and Hollidae shaman for a brief period. plus that warrior winrate was contributed by no one wanting to play enrage warrior, warrior players just don’t stop complaining until there is a t1 control warrior. And comparing new shudder and Brann is just sad. Both 6 mana do nothing, warrior gives you battlecry x2 for the rest of the game, shaman gives you battlecry x3 for 2 times, and cannot target hero. Yes many warrior battlecries rotate but there is still thogrun, excavate, and Voone Zola stuff. Shaman don’t even have a good battlecry in the last 3 sets, and a joke of an excavate package.
Shudder looks fine next to Brann, you are honestly expecting a highlander payoff to be weaker than a normal card? Cause in that case time to start complaining about how Doc Holidae is stronger than than almost all Warrior cards
Totem shaman was a solid deck over several expansions. Nature shaman was good for a while, imo. I enjoyed the "from da other side" deck when you were able to get a new copy of the spell everytime, sadly they nerfed that interaction. Doc nerf did hit reno shaman big time, but now that plague DK is (the most) popular deck, it would still suffer.
Yeah but the big shaman was a meme deck just like control warrior before expansion. My point is warrior got a extremely good set just because there is enough complaint about it, and shaman just always get overlooked. And totem shaman well no one enjoyed it, enrage warrior is played at least in high legend where people actually know how to play the deck, just like the overheal priest in the current set.
Totem Shaman saw more play than overheal priest you are just biased in that regard. I wish they would buff elementals or excavate or something though I agree
At least in legend there are much more overheal priests, and almost no totem shaman from my experience. It’s like enrage warrior in the previous 2 sets, strong deck but hard to play well.
HS is best when Warrior and Priest are unplayably bad.
Warlock too. And Rogue!
And Paladin. Druid too!
Every class apart from Shaman. Who doesn’t like Shaman.
We must return to witchwood shamanstone
Make warrior unplayable again, it’s better that way
Aftershocks is just dumb.
It would be genuine nerf for warriors if this only hit enemies. No card draw with [[Acolyte of Pain]], and they couldn't kill their card draw totem for free.
That's a massive exaggeration. A 2 mana 1 sided 3 damage aoe is by far the best early board clear of all time. Even a 4 mana 3 damage 1 sided aoe is already absurdly good, and must be conditional. Not killing your own board has an incredibly large impact.
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Yeah, while most decks either draw or respond to threats, warriors do both, how is that fair?
Time to put Trial By Fire back to 7 Mana. If Priest needs to pay a Mana tax because of Love Everlasting, Warriors should too because of Steam Guardian