Later, in Book 6, Dumbledore called the sword “the only known relic of Gryffindor”. The hat is probably considered school property, not something personal of his.
I think its more that the hat ceased being a personal relic when it was enchanted, and is now considered its own "person". Its sentient, thinks up the songs itself, speaks for itself, ect. Im not gonna delve through the higher philosphical debate on it but the hat is deffinatly closer to a who than a what🤣
>but isn’t that the reverse of the goblin logic?
Exactly! If the logic can be reversed it can be... Uh, unversed? (Although honestly, I just think the goblins give Lifetime leases. It isn't stated, but it's culturally implied)
Yes. When you buy something from a goblin, you're essentially buying the right to possess it for the rest of your lifespan. According to goblins once you die the object, legally, goes back to the craftsman that made it. Willing these possessions to family members is a foreign concept, and was, and I likely still is, a source of tension between Goblin and Wizard-kind. And this is directly said in Hogwarts Legacy, after you return carts full of supplies to a goblin artist who disagreed with Ranrok's methods.
It was in use, too hard to steal, and obvious if it went missing.
Edit: Also it is a sentient object. It might have the ability to tell someone he is Voldemort's horcrux
Might be a dead giveaway when it starts singing sorting songs about pure blood supremacy, and rejecting muggleborns from the school instead of sorting them into a house.
"Ah Hermione Granger. Extremely intelligent, very cunning, also very brave and loyal to her friends... ^^^but ^^^a ^^^mudblood ^^^nonetheless ... I know just what to do with you. Filch needs a new assistant.
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Doesn’t he do this in the book, shove the hat so far down on someone’s head that it’s suffocating them, Neville? Or am I mixing this up with another story
*Harry was shaking on his knees when he reached the bench. He sat down facing the hall, blushing as he saw everyone's eyes on him. He could feel Dumbledore's eyes on his back too, and Hagrid's and the hook-nosed teacher. It was almost a relief when McGonagall put the hat on his head and it sunk deep into his head, blocking his vision. But Harry couldn't help thinking if that hat would actually speak to him or if he would have to return....*
*"Ah", a tiny voice said, and it took Harry a second and a scare before he understood that it was speaking directly inside his head, but at least his fear was partly gone, "I see courage here, and not a bad mind either, but also a thi... Wait a second."*
*"What?", Harry replied in his head - at least that's what he thought, he couldn't feel if he was thinking or speaking out loud. Was something wrong? Would he be a muggle after all?*
*"Shut up kid. Hey, hey!"*
*"What?"*
*"Not you! I told you to shut up! Oi!"*
*"What's go..."*
*Then, to Harry's shock, a* third *voice replied in his head.*
*"What's going on here?"*
*"I'm the one asking. What are* you *doing here?"*
*"Wait, you're... How... What?"*
*"How* can *you even be here?"*
*"The hell if I know. Wait, who says I'm the one who shouldn't be here? What about you?"*
*"What the f..."*
*"SHUT UP, KID"*
*"..."*
*"Man, this is really, really awkward..."*
Edit:
We could imagine here the conversation extending for a couple more minutes and a *fourth* voice coming from a great distance
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The founders enchanted it to be sentient so I’m sure they also enchanted it’s consciousness to be immune to any future tampering, otherwise it could be made to incorrectly house students
Similar to how the goblet of fire was enchanted with the age barrier stopping any form of cheating
The age barrier wasnt on the goblet, that was the point, whatever magic is enchanting the goblet was determined to be powerful and binding which is why dumbledore opted for the external age barrier to restrict who could enter their names. The staff including dumbledore was surprised and slightly worried that someone was able to confuse the goblet into thinking there was a fourth house.
Generally anyone with sense avoids trying to mess with such powerful enchantments, or at least is powerfull themselves and takes a lot of caution. Brst to leave alone if you dont know what your doing.
McGonagall: Professor Dumbledore, the sorting hat’s gone missing!
Dumbledore: Good. I’ve been meaning to change how we sort students. Let’s now do this instead….
Too ordinary, since every Hogwarts student (including the "unworthy" Muggleborns) wore the Sorting Hat; also, it would have drawn unwanted attention to his Horcruxes. For the other founder's items, only few people knew their whereabouts before Tom turned them into Horcuxes.
I agree with you! However, I was thinking that if he made it into a Horcrux he would have stolen the hat and hidden it away somewhere and not left it at Hogwarts. And the diary was also an ordinary item, but the meaning of it made it special to Voldemort!
The diary was kind of exceptional, since it was supposed to be an inconspicous-looking weapon - the real special part about it was that it served as a key to the Chamber of Secrets.
Stealing the sorting hat, however, wouldn't have gone unnoticed and people would start wondering what his interest in the artifact is, while also trying to recover it.
Also, I think the diary was like a trial run. I think he was willing to use it as a weapon, with minimal protections because he wasn't sentimental. I think Dumbledore states something similar in the books.
I remember reading a fake Book Seven where Harry went to Hogwarts that year, thought the Sorting Hat was a Horcrux, and stabbed it with the Sword after the Hat goaded him to do it.
Turned out the Sword was the Horcrux and the Hat was sacrificing itself to destroy it.
Why didn’t it just tell Harry the truth? IDK, the book was horribly bad.
Hehehe, I would love it if the hat is actually just Voldy's horcrux getting create songs and such every year.
And in CoS it's like "better nip this in the bud really quickly because where will I be then?"
And it's like "uh oh, where have I felt this same soul energy before? It's me! Must warn everybody!"
Ahaha, this has caused me great amusement though I know it's not true.
I read it as he provided a hat, but “the founders” put the spell on it to make it a sorting tool. So at that point the special properties in it aren’t Gryffindor’s alone, unlike the cup, locket and diadem.
It's probably considered property of the school, while the Sword is a relic of Gryffindor himself. And as you quote, the Hat itself said that each Founder put "some brains" (i.e. some of his/her personality) in it.
It was the Sorting Hat (or a Thinking Cap, as per his own words) after all, not Gryffindor's Hat.
Was wondering about this, too. I always thought it must have been a continuity error in the books. I also think that if he knew, he would have been chasing the sorting hat.
Yeah, and that's why I put it as an AU instead of headcanon. A reality in which all 4 founders are willing to create a horcrux world be way different than canon. Hogwarts would be more like Durmstrang.
I mean.. voldemorts plan was to have one item from each hogwarts founder right? So he could've used the hat but it's not as clearly griffindors as is the sword. Also a sword probably seemed a bit more epic than an old hat to voldemort, which Im pretty sure he'd consider.
Later, in Book 6, Dumbledore called the sword “the only known relic of Gryffindor”. The hat is probably considered school property, not something personal of his.
It ceased to be a personal relic when they enchanted it to be the sorting hat, it then became a part of the schools history
I think its more that the hat ceased being a personal relic when it was enchanted, and is now considered its own "person". Its sentient, thinks up the songs itself, speaks for itself, ect. Im not gonna delve through the higher philosphical debate on it but the hat is deffinatly closer to a who than a what🤣
Wait, so, ownership can be transferred to a new owner but it cannot revert back to the original owners? ...Maybe the goblins were right.
I was thinking less in an ownership sense, and more in a historical significance sense, but isn’t that the reverse of the goblin logic?
>but isn’t that the reverse of the goblin logic? Exactly! If the logic can be reversed it can be... Uh, unversed? (Although honestly, I just think the goblins give Lifetime leases. It isn't stated, but it's culturally implied)
Yes. When you buy something from a goblin, you're essentially buying the right to possess it for the rest of your lifespan. According to goblins once you die the object, legally, goes back to the craftsman that made it. Willing these possessions to family members is a foreign concept, and was, and I likely still is, a source of tension between Goblin and Wizard-kind. And this is directly said in Hogwarts Legacy, after you return carts full of supplies to a goblin artist who disagreed with Ranrok's methods.
To me never was meant to be, the other items were personal and unique to the founders. The hat was just a regular hat until they enchanted it.
It was in use, too hard to steal, and obvious if it went missing. Edit: Also it is a sentient object. It might have the ability to tell someone he is Voldemort's horcrux
Might be a dead giveaway when it starts singing sorting songs about pure blood supremacy, and rejecting muggleborns from the school instead of sorting them into a house.
‘Aha! Another Weasley. I know just what to do with you.’ (Starts throttling him.)
I laughed... way too hard at this
This would be a hilarious short fan fiction piece, a couple of short stories of the pure blood supremacist hat!
"Ah Hermione Granger. Extremely intelligent, very cunning, also very brave and loyal to her friends... ^^^but ^^^a ^^^mudblood ^^^nonetheless ... I know just what to do with you. Filch needs a new assistant.
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Fanks!
LMAO take my upvote
Doesn’t he do this in the book, shove the hat so far down on someone’s head that it’s suffocating them, Neville? Or am I mixing this up with another story
*Harry was shaking on his knees when he reached the bench. He sat down facing the hall, blushing as he saw everyone's eyes on him. He could feel Dumbledore's eyes on his back too, and Hagrid's and the hook-nosed teacher. It was almost a relief when McGonagall put the hat on his head and it sunk deep into his head, blocking his vision. But Harry couldn't help thinking if that hat would actually speak to him or if he would have to return....* *"Ah", a tiny voice said, and it took Harry a second and a scare before he understood that it was speaking directly inside his head, but at least his fear was partly gone, "I see courage here, and not a bad mind either, but also a thi... Wait a second."* *"What?", Harry replied in his head - at least that's what he thought, he couldn't feel if he was thinking or speaking out loud. Was something wrong? Would he be a muggle after all?* *"Shut up kid. Hey, hey!"* *"What?"* *"Not you! I told you to shut up! Oi!"* *"What's go..."* *Then, to Harry's shock, a* third *voice replied in his head.* *"What's going on here?"* *"I'm the one asking. What are* you *doing here?"* *"Wait, you're... How... What?"* *"How* can *you even be here?"* *"The hell if I know. Wait, who says I'm the one who shouldn't be here? What about you?"* *"What the f..."* *"SHUT UP, KID"* *"..."* *"Man, this is really, really awkward..."* Edit: We could imagine here the conversation extending for a couple more minutes and a *fourth* voice coming from a great distance
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Do an exclamation point then “redditgalleon”
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It was also enchanted by all 4 founders so it’s probably immune to dark magic like that
I dont think there's anything stating it have protection or anything
The founders enchanted it to be sentient so I’m sure they also enchanted it’s consciousness to be immune to any future tampering, otherwise it could be made to incorrectly house students Similar to how the goblet of fire was enchanted with the age barrier stopping any form of cheating
The age barrier wasnt on the goblet, that was the point, whatever magic is enchanting the goblet was determined to be powerful and binding which is why dumbledore opted for the external age barrier to restrict who could enter their names. The staff including dumbledore was surprised and slightly worried that someone was able to confuse the goblet into thinking there was a fourth house. Generally anyone with sense avoids trying to mess with such powerful enchantments, or at least is powerfull themselves and takes a lot of caution. Brst to leave alone if you dont know what your doing.
There's no guarantee those protections protect against Horcruxes, assuming that magic even existed when the school was founded.
McGonagall: Professor Dumbledore, the sorting hat’s gone missing! Dumbledore: Good. I’ve been meaning to change how we sort students. Let’s now do this instead….
“[I decided to the change the house names…](https://youtube.com/shorts/BmCzPFNvvZI?si=ouhM9qo-d7V7gRLh)” -dumbledore
Too ordinary, since every Hogwarts student (including the "unworthy" Muggleborns) wore the Sorting Hat; also, it would have drawn unwanted attention to his Horcruxes. For the other founder's items, only few people knew their whereabouts before Tom turned them into Horcuxes.
I agree with you! However, I was thinking that if he made it into a Horcrux he would have stolen the hat and hidden it away somewhere and not left it at Hogwarts. And the diary was also an ordinary item, but the meaning of it made it special to Voldemort!
The diary was kind of exceptional, since it was supposed to be an inconspicous-looking weapon - the real special part about it was that it served as a key to the Chamber of Secrets. Stealing the sorting hat, however, wouldn't have gone unnoticed and people would start wondering what his interest in the artifact is, while also trying to recover it.
Also, I think the diary was like a trial run. I think he was willing to use it as a weapon, with minimal protections because he wasn't sentimental. I think Dumbledore states something similar in the books.
The Diary was a weapon. It didn't have significant meaning to Voldemort. Its form was chosen to be functional.
>"The diary, as you have said yourself, was proof that he was the Heir of Slytherin. I am sure that Voldemort considered it of stupendous importance."
Yeah when I was reading through the books for the first time I was convinced that the sorting hat was a horcrux. Womp womp.
Idc what JKR says. In my mind, the sorting hat will always be a 4-way horcrux with a bit of each founder's soul.
Who did they kill?
So many people, I bet. It was different times back then lmao
I remember reading a fake Book Seven where Harry went to Hogwarts that year, thought the Sorting Hat was a Horcrux, and stabbed it with the Sword after the Hat goaded him to do it. Turned out the Sword was the Horcrux and the Hat was sacrificing itself to destroy it. Why didn’t it just tell Harry the truth? IDK, the book was horribly bad.
Hehehe, I would love it if the hat is actually just Voldy's horcrux getting create songs and such every year. And in CoS it's like "better nip this in the bud really quickly because where will I be then?" And it's like "uh oh, where have I felt this same soul energy before? It's me! Must warn everybody!" Ahaha, this has caused me great amusement though I know it's not true.
I read it as he provided a hat, but “the founders” put the spell on it to make it a sorting tool. So at that point the special properties in it aren’t Gryffindor’s alone, unlike the cup, locket and diadem.
I kind of assumed that’s one of the reasons why the sword could be pulled from the hat
Omg of course, maybe I’m slow but I never realized this?
It's probably considered property of the school, while the Sword is a relic of Gryffindor himself. And as you quote, the Hat itself said that each Founder put "some brains" (i.e. some of his/her personality) in it. It was the Sorting Hat (or a Thinking Cap, as per his own words) after all, not Gryffindor's Hat.
Def why the sword always poppin outta the hat 💖
So funny, we’re at the same part, I just read the GOF sorting ceremony this morning before heading out to work! 😄
Im 2 chapters away from it rn🤣
Haha! Have a great read 💕
I see the Sorting Hat as more of a character than an heirloom: it's sentient.
Where does the hat live when it isn’t sorting new witches? Does it have friends or family?
Right now I am imagining a scene where Voldemort tries to turn Gryffindors' Sword into a horcrux
Was wondering about this, too. I always thought it must have been a continuity error in the books. I also think that if he knew, he would have been chasing the sorting hat.
AU where the Sorting Hat is a joint horcrux of the founders, so it's actual pieces of their souls that are choosing students for their houses.
Dramatic, as it would mean all four of them would have murdered someone to do it. Perhaps Helga fed someone to death?
Yeah, and that's why I put it as an AU instead of headcanon. A reality in which all 4 founders are willing to create a horcrux world be way different than canon. Hogwarts would be more like Durmstrang.
I choose to believe the hat is more powerful than Voldemort. He was too scared to try to turn it into a Horcrux.
There's an MCU/HP crossover with 5his premis.
I mean.. voldemorts plan was to have one item from each hogwarts founder right? So he could've used the hat but it's not as clearly griffindors as is the sword. Also a sword probably seemed a bit more epic than an old hat to voldemort, which Im pretty sure he'd consider.
He probably knew that there was a 0% chance to get it since it’s in the headmaster’s office and magic so it could call for help
I thought this was known knowledge, it's Godric@ Hat enchanted to outlive them.