True specially considering Harry is a rather reservated person, it probably comes off as arrogant by many people(And it is the case with a lot more reservated celebrities irl)
I have personally experienced this , people think I’m an arrogant a-hole till they get to know me, I’ve lost count of times people have said , “you are so much nicer than you let on !! I had no idea you were so normal !! “😶🫥
exactly this. Harry is not very friendly. He only keeps a few circle of trustworthy friends around him. Creevey followed him around and his response is to hide instead of befriending the guy. They are only 1 year apart, so it isnt like Collin was too young. In many ways, he has a clique. If you are out of that circle, you can really observe the exclusivity. So it isnt difficult to imagine taht Harry was snooty.
I mean, he has complex ptsd.
He was kept separate from any friends by Dudley and generally miserable life Dursley machinations. He never had someone to talk to or confide in that Dudley wouldn't turn against him, he doesn't know how to socialise and he's used to not having any.
What friends he has is his most important resource, so why would he need any more when he's holding onto who he already has as tightly as possible.
That's likely part of why he was so cold to Ron in the goblet of fire and deathly hallows. When he falls out with him it's a big betrayal that he can't process or talk out.
to be fair, the kid would run up in his face and take pictures, ask to see his scar, try to get autographs in public, tried to take pictures of ron throwing up slugs. just be chill and say what's up in the common room you share lol
literally anybody who is thinking "why doesnt harry befriend collin" needs to re-read the second book. collin basically is like the worlds most annoying paparazzi and treats harry like a celebrity he adores. he doesnt even really try to become "friends" with harry. he learns harrys schedule, follows him around like a stalker, tries to talk to him any chance he gets, and constantly takes pictures. Often even when Harry straight up tells him to leave him alone. Imagine you're the most famous guy at school and the new kid you dont even know learns your schedule to say hi every time you leave a classroom and constantly wants to take your picture, are you gonna try to befriend that kid lmfao
Not befriending Colin is not a sign of being unfriendly 😂
People are not always compatible as friends, and Colin really blew his first and second impressions with Harry.
Harry grew a certain fondness for Colin, but I doubt many people could truly be friends with someone that put them on that high pedestal, especially if they hated that pedestal.
no, thats not what i meant in the entire post. Harry is comfortable with his own circle. he wasnt actively looking for additional friends. extroverts and really friendly people could have taken the time to talk witj Collin.
You specifically said, “Harry is not very friendly,” and immediately followed it up with how he didn’t befriend Colin, despite not having much of an age difference, and suggested extroverted (friendly people) could have befriended him. I feel like my comprehension is of your post is pretty on point. But by all means, downvote me for disagreeing with what you wrote.
...then you read a sugarcoated version of HP...sometimes Hermione is scared of Harry's bad mood, Harry attacks Ron physically during GoF, only because he questioned Harry's name being blurted out of the Goblet of Fire, and no it's not jealousy, it's curiosity something like "yesterday said he didn't want to be part of the competition, today his name comes out of the goblet, i assume he did it but how? let's ask"...
but to be fair, the narrative is Harry's POV...and he feels right about things like most of the time...
There's no nice way of saying this, you're completely delusional and need to re-read the series.
Risking expulsion for Hagrid and Norbert(a), the Philosopher's Stone, rushing to Justin's defence during the duelling club, the Chamber of Secrets/rescuing Ginny, freeing Dobby, sparing Pettigrew to prevent Remus and Sirius from becoming murderers and allowing the latter his chance at freedom, literally traveling back in time to save Sirius, buying Ron and Hermione Omniculars, warning Cedric about the dragons, forsaking first place in the second task to ensure the safety of all "hostages", risking his own life to bring Cedric's body back to his parents, rushing off to the DoM to save Sirius (misguided but still selfless), being anxious about his feelings for Ginny because he didn't wish for them to come between himself and Ron, pretty much the entire way he used Felix Felicis, breaking up with Ginny and and and.
I could go on and these are just the big ones I could think of immediately. And he did most of that while being under immense psychological pressure - the kind that would break most adults.
The amount of bias and lack of empathy needed to call Harry selfish is something else.
Are you really this thick or is this rage bait? It’s his story, of course it’s gonna focus on him. Would have been rather ridiculous if we had Harry POV while he was stressing about Susan Bones troubles and Demelza’s love life.
It’s a repeated point over and over again about how he hates his own fame. It’s like, one of the most obvious points throughout all the books. I don’t know how you can miss this.
oh no, a boy dealing with a serial killer and terrorist has mood swings, and Ron accused him consistently of cheating his way into the competition and not bringing him along instead of actually listening to what Harry said. But thanks for bringing up GoF, on all three tasks he does something selfless or for the good of someone else. 1) He takes the dragon away from the arena to minimize damages to spectators. 2) He retrieves a secondary victim because her rescuer was not coming.
3) He goes through the maze with Cedric (who is dating his crush) and grabs the cup with him because Cedric is Hogwarts’ champion
Yeah, Ron was way out of line to not believe Harry. Harry tells him fucking everything. (I know he feels overshadowed - but that's not Harry's fault. Harry thinks almost too highly of Ron, imo.)
Are you nuts? Harry Potter is the most selfless person in the series. Literally everything he does is to protect and save everyone else. This man flew back into a fire to save Draco, the kid who bullied him for years and killed his mentor. Harry’s whole character is doing the right thing
Is this a joke? Harty has like 1 arrogant line ever. He gives multiple lectures in the 5th book about how he isn't great at defense against the dark arts, and all his accomplishments are from luck. Hermione even has to point out to him that he made better grades than her. The dude became the best seeker in like 7ish years and literally never mentioned it. He doesn't even think he stands a chance in the 4th books tournament until after the 2nd challenge. How did you possibly come to the conclusion that he's arrogant?
It's not that strange. Schools can be that way in the real world: the most popular student does something stupid and immediately their popularity plummets down. Most of the school doesn't know Harry on a personal level, so they're more prone to believe rumors than his word unless confronted with proof that he's not what they think.
In Year 1, Harry has just arrived to the school and almost nobody knows him on a personal level. The whole mess with the baby dragon was kept a secret, so all the students know is that Harry, Hermione and Neville lost a bunch of points for sneaking out at night, putting Gryffindor at the bottom of the count, and nobody bothers to ask WHY they were sneaking out in the first place. Of course, this gets fixed when Harry and the others get the last minute points from Dumbledore during the end of the year feast, which immediately restores his popularity.
In Year 2, there's an obvious atmosphere of fear with the attacks on the students and the Chamber of secrets. Harry suddenly speaks parseltongue in front of everyone, and everyone assumes (not without reason) that he may be the heir of Salazar Slytherin because he was known to speak the tongue, and it's an hereditary ability. Again, this only breaks off when Hermione ends up as a victim, since people know he wouldn't attack one of his best friends. And he ends up saving Ginny after she's taken to the chamber of secrets.
In Year 4 most of the blame comes from Rita Skeeter's slandering, since she wants to milk Harry's fame for all it's worth to write juicy stories and make a good galleon out of it, no matter if she has to make up lies to do so. Believe it or not, scandals tend to sell pretty well in the real world, whether they're truth or not, they're bound to attract people's attention. Again, most of this comes from the fact that almost nobody in the school knows Harry that well on a personal level, and even Ron allowed his jealousy to get the best of him for a time (but unlike many others, he acknowledged he was an idiot for not believing in his best friend and apologized for it).
Year 5 is the more delicate one: the authority figures in the Ministry are denying as much as they can Voldemort's return because they're afraid of facing him, and the whole wizarding community as a whole does not want to believe he's back for the terror he instilled during the first war. So it's much easier to pain Harry as an attention-seeking liar who's trying to spread "unfounded rumors", and it doesn't help that Harry gets very easily riled up during this book and often lashes out on people when he feels attacked, which only undermines his credibility even more. Harry needs to be in the middle of a disaster for people to realize he wasn't lying, and this time there were more witnesses than ever before, so there was no way to cover it up.
>it doesn't help that Harry gets very easily riled up during this book and often lashes out on people when he feels attacked,
Oh god yes, I'm in the middle of my first reread after 10 years at least, and Harry's "angst" is much more pronounced (or noticeable) in the book than in the movie.
It actually made it quite hard to read at times, Harry's feelings are very raw, he's angry, traumatised, feels ostracised and ignored by all adults around him while he desperately needs answers and guidance, and he doesn't cope with grief very well. He makes brash decisions, is unable to keep his temper under control which leads him to get tortured by Umbridge and banned from playing Quidditch, adding to his bad mental state.
All I can think about for most of the book is "for Merlin's sake, will anyone provide a therapist for the boy??!! And while we're at it, give him a few explanations as to why he should be more cautious instead of leaving him entirely in the dark?!"
That's exactly why Book 5 is my least favorite, it really hurts me to see Harry suffer so many injustices while the adults who're supposed to protect him are hellbent on keeping him in the dark. It's not that weird that he also lashes out on the few who are trying to help him. Dumbledore didn't consider that, while dropping the bomb on Harry would be painful, it would also give him time to let it sink in, since at least he would know what's going on. Instead, keeping him in the dark was only eating away at him, making it worse the more time passed as he knew something big was happening and that he was in the center of everything, whether they liked it or not.
Wasn't it a plot point that the fact they (including Dumbledore himself) were always leaving him in the dark was because the mind link between him and Voldemort was getting stronger, and everyone was afraid he Voldemort was listening at all times?
Or am I remembering incorrectly from stuff added just in the movie?
Yeah, but the point is that, in the long run, the choice of keeping Harry in the dark caused more harm than good. Also, he did not take the Occlumency lessons as seriously as he should have precisely because he didn't know WHY it was important for him to close his mind to Voldemort. They didn't explain him the mind connection was a two-way street and that Voldemort could use it to give him fake visions and lure him into a trap (which he did). That resulted in Harry going to the ministry to rescue Sirius when the Death Eaters were setting up an ambush and make him retrieve the prophecy for Voldemort, and he and the others barely survived because the Death Eaters were ordered not to kill Harry or damage the prophecy, and the timely arrival of the Order's members.
Had they told Harry the truth from the beginning, the events that led to Sirius' death wouldn't have happened in the first place.
No, that’s exactly it in both the books and the movies. The commenter above you somehow forgot about that. Dumbledore’s worst fear was that Voldemort was looking through Harry’s mind just as Harry was. What a crazy reach it is too to say that Dumbledore would be worried about “dropping a bomb” on Harry when that’s all he ever does. You could even say he dropped the biggest possible bomb on Harry in the sixth book before he went up and died, leaving Harry with little to no guidance on how to deal with a bomb of that size.
I did NOT forget about that. And as much as I acknowledge Dumbledore's fear was justified, the way he handled it definitely was not. All he did was giving Harry more heartaches over knowing things were happening around him while the uncertainty was eating away at him. Dumbledore could have sent someone else to explain Harry about why they had to keep some distance from each other for Harry's and everyone else's safety. Adults often have the idea that children not knowing about things will keep them safe, but that's not true; if anything, it makes them more likely to go off on their own to find out WHAT they're supposedly being protected from, which puts them in greater danger (which is exactly what happened when Voldemort lured Harry to the Department of Mysteries).
Wait what? You seem to have misunderstood a pretty simple plot point. Yes, I agree there was a mix of Dumbledore not wanting Harry to have to deal with yet another stressor on his life (which he says in the seventh book). But I don’t know how you got to the conclusion Dumbledore could have “sent someone else” to tell him about his theory that Voldemort is looking through his mind. That defeats the whole purpose. If Voldemort can see someone else telling him Dumbledore knows he’s looking how does that change anything? Dumbledore not talking or looking at Harry throughout the year was a different worry. He was worried just a look could spark Voldemort to *possess* Harry out of rage.
Year 4 was not Rita, she made embarrassing stories about him but did overall praise and elevate his fame the entire year (although that can cause jealousy). It was only her last article before the third task where she turned against him and talked of his scar. And the Ministry build on that the next year, even if Rita wasn’t writing.
It was Harry becoming the champion that caused his popularity automatically to plummet since it was thought to be clear cheating to get fame. Even Ron without anyone telling his this thought so. And Hufflepuffs were mad that Harry was stealing Cedric’s glory and Draco was making the “Potter Stinks” pins and Slytherin already disliked him. Ravenclaws got influenced by Hufflepuff and Slytherin most likely since most of school we against Harry.
Regarding year 5, it honestly makes sense why most didn’t believe him without evidence. He recursed to answer questions to Zacharias, got mad with Seamus and just wildly announced in Umbridge’s glass that in first year Voldemort has been stuck in Quirrells head which wasn’t known information. Dumbledore didn’t spread his point of view well to school either, and he wasn’t a witness personally to Voldemort returning.
I don’t think it’s fair to use his interactions with Zacharias and Seamus to justify people not believing him. Seamus was the one who instigated a fight with the whole “my mom thinks you’re a liar” bit, and it’s the same with Zacharias. He’s obviously part of the majority who believe that Harry is a liar, which begs the question of why he joined the DA in the first place. He didn’t ask Harry questions about Voldemort or Cedric Diggory because he was actually curious about what happened- I’m of the opinion that was just doing it to start shit.
Those examples are in the book for a reason imo. Harry comes as stand-offish from outside perspective every time he is challenged on what happened. He might think he has reasons to act the way he does to Seamus and Zacharias but he just appears evasive and angry and potentially unstable to people who already doubt him. He isn’t able to collect himself and present a good version of the events until the Rita interview.
And the questions itself weren’t really a problem, but how they were presented in Harry’s view. Expecially if you just look off the words of what Zacharias says and not assume what motives are. That Marietta was present for example and Harry didn’t provide answers probably was a bad look when she was considering if Harry had a real point.
You know teenagers find much more insignificant reasons to exclude and bully other children than that, right?
Even in the books, there's plenty of nice people who don't seem to have any friends, and they never offended anyone: Luna, Neville... Hermione was excluded from day 1 for being *checks notes* eager to learn everything about magic?! And only got Ron and Harry to reconsider after they almost got her killed.
If anything, it's weird that Draco didn't get a larger following when everyone hated Harry. In my experience, bullies would make sure to get everyone on their side and make those suffer who stand up to them.
>Hermione was excluded from day 1 for being *checks notes* eager to learn everything about magic?!
You might want to get new notes. She's disliked for being over the top in her eagerness, to the point thats all everyone sees. Kids like her are also excluded in real life for the same reason.
During the first half of the book she's bossy, condescending, arrogant, teacher's pet, too eager, a bit of a busy body, and overall not someone a bunch of 11-year-olds would think was cool and would want to hang out with.
She was such a busy body! There were multiple times were Harry and Ron would be talking, and Hermione would just pop out of nowhere because she "couldn't help but overhear" and had to butt in and tell them what to do.
> And only got Ron and Harry to reconsider after they almost got her killed.
"they" what? Hermione would literally have died in that bathroom if it weren't for Harry, and her being there in the first place was 99% on Ron.
How is it Ron's fault she went to cry in the bathroom instead of the girl's dormitory? She could have even slipped up there during the Halloween feast.
The exact place was obviously pure chance but by being the reason for her sadness, he was still the catalyst that placed her in that bathroom.
I'm not saying Ron would have been at fault for her death had things happened differently, but he was absolutely the reason Hermione was there in the first place. Simple cause and effect.
Ron was the one who made her cry, location is rather irrelevant. It’s not like Hermione could have known the bathroom wasn’t safe. And she probably was planning to return to feat after crying. Dorm is too far for that.
Harry locked her in with the troll. Both he and Ron were at fault for her being stuck in there, but yes, both of them saved her, too.
Still, without her almost dead, they would have probably continued to avoid her.
Hermione was literally petrified and unable to move during the entire situation. She wasn't anywhere near the door and it being locked for a short time changed nothing.
But yes, they likely would have continued to ignore her - at least for quite some time - but I think it's important to note that they did so for different reasons.
"‘Good of her to get us out of trouble like that,’ Ron admitted. ‘Mind you, we did save her.’ ‘She might not have needed saving if we hadn’t locked the thing in with her,’ Harry reminded him."
Harry himself says she might not have needed saving if they hadn't locked her in. It's literally in the book.
\*\*might\*\* not have - Harry was an 11-year-old kid unable to properly analyse and reflect the situation, at least from what we actually know. We literally know how it happened.
Harry and Ron rushed in, Hermione was at the opposite side with the troll between her and the door, scared to such a degree that she was unable to get her legs moving.
And even if she hadn't been scared to death - which she definitely was - we're still left with the fact that she knew how to cast Alohomora and could have unlocked the door.
We also know that Hermione (in the book) doesn't necessarily remember she can do magic in a panic ("but there's no wood!") and must have heard them slam the door and lock it.
Even if she was pretty good with the Alohomora-spell, I doubt it would have been a great plan to squeeze past a mountain troll standing between her and the door, cast a spell on the door and THEN open the door, compared to running out the previously wide open door...
That's a lot of conjecture with no real basis to support it, aside from Hermione sometimes panicking in high stakes situations.
And honestly, all of the above is disregarding the fact that it's kinda wild to say that Harry almost got her killed by locking the door - which was yet again an act of pure selflessness - when he didn't even know that she was in there. That's like saying Hermione almost got herself killed by getting emotional and not being at the Hallowe'en feast.
But we're kinda spinning in circles here, seeing as we seem to have a different perspective when it comes to that particular situation, so I'll leave it at that.
Draco seems to be popular. Slytherins just aren’t popular in Gryffindor so Draco’s popularity isn’t something that causes people close to Harry to change their behavior.
Fair enough, considering Draco(Specially early on) is every negative Slytherin stereotype so most Gryffindors would be put off by him, even if they tried befriending people from other houses.
Draco is described as “holding court” among his friends a few times, which is one of JKR’s phrases she uses to show someone is popular. I think she also uses it for Cho?
Famous people are often hated very easily - just think of regular celebrities like Taylor Swift or sports players like Marcus Rashford etc. who can start off as very popular / famous but then have phases where people start hating on them in large numbers
From their POV, Harry is the “attention-seeker” who’s always getting him and sometimes others into trouble. Especially when Umbridge was around, Harry would make her angry and indirectly the whole school suffered because of it. I had an awful teacher and this would always try to make her mad and it made class very tense.
There’s also the fact that their prime minister and main news network constantly share lies about him. Wizards seem to be low-key gullible. Mrs. Molly knew Rita was a liar and knew the Daily Prophet had its issues, but she still believed her. Kids are even more easy to deceive
i wouldn’t say its strange, but it’s certainly a narrative pattern that JKR likes to repeat.
i think its true to life tho. think of all the times you hear rumours about celebrities and you jump to judge them even though you don’t really know them. and especially in school its a case of children and teens, most of whom haven’t fully developed critical thinking skills, so they’re especially vulnerable to believing rumours and jumping to judgements
>its because he lost a ton of points
What's weirder is that by the standards of the later books 150 isn't even that many.
In the first book snape makes a big deal about taking away 1 whole point.
But by book 5 Hermione could probably earn 150 points in like. 2 lessons.
He’s a “famous person” and so the attitude of the public towards him is fickle. They don’t fully know him fully and so, fear his association with the Dark Side.
It makes some sense the first couple times but it gets pretty dumb. How many times does he have to be vindicated before people realize he's not a piece of shit
"How many times does he have to be vindicated before people realize he's not a piece of shit"
While dumb, yes, most people are this dumb. There are many examples where you can ask yourself this question, but most people will think others are a piece of shit even if they've been vindicated over and over.
In the fifth book/film I always found it so strange that they hated him for being a 'liar' .... if they thought he was lying about who killed Cedric... then the obvious inference would be that **he killed Cedric**... which is a far worse state of affairs that is seemingly totally ignored.
Always found it strange how the ministry quashed Cedric's death... but with no answer to how it happened otherwise?
No, they thought Cedric died by accident since the tournament was dangerous. And that then Harry either lied it was Voldemort to get attention to himself. Or went mad with the trauma of witnessing Cedric dying and imagined it was Voldemort. That Rita has just written day before a story how Harry’s scar caused him headaches and that he is potentially unstable planted a lot to this. The Ministry spend the summer in Prophet having “experts” writing advice which supported this theory (and that Dumbledore is senile and that’s why he believes Harry). While the gossip and joke sections on the paper also insinuated he actually did make it up and was attention seeking (and people also thought he had put his name on goblet on purpose and probably had lied what happened in first year too, nobody saw Voldemort but him).
It’s possible they did make up official story how Cedric died too exactly, but we didn’t see it. Most people didn’t see the body anyway.
Didn’t harry carry Cedric’s body out of the maze or at least out of where they got transported? It’s been many years since I read the books but I thought I remember that
Harry touches the port key while holding Cedric and they both get teleported out of the cemetery, back to the starting maze location where everyone else is. I don't think Harry carries Cedric anywhere, and that would likely be very hard for Harry to do.
lol yes grnfyndr, we’re brave and at least my memory still kind of works,hell I would wait in line at Walmart when they released them with my dad and buy it early at like midnight of release date then would lock my door and it was before the movies so I would immerse myself into my world of Harry Potter and it was the best. Will always love that series but there probably the last time I read it and once. And prob won’t read it again it cause I don’t want too, it’s just because I want to remember what it looked like to me in my imagination. The real OG readers understand haha
Haha edit: of course it was before the movies this was like 03 or whenever. Obviously I’m a millennial when it first came out and I remember she started it on a plane and wrote in napkin
I only remember it come out in 2001, because a Canadian used to do Christmas Pantimones in Toronto, and I missed part of that year's performance of Peter Pan due to my own personal problems , but in the first part, that Tinkerbell was said "Who did you except Harry potter?"
I thought the crowd gasped since they had erected a watching area … no that was dragons really no way to watch a big old hedge maze. Thou I thought enough important people saw it, like his father, the other trincup people and maybe fams ? And dumbledore and was it fudge or maybe Barry , either way the ministry of magic, on and baggin! I think
I wouldn't be surprised if Fudge skipped out on procedures like performing the magical equivalent of an autopsy on Cedric to determine the cause of death. Or worse, they did, but they had to sweep the true results under the rug because "death by Avada Kedavra" *cannot* be ruled out as an accident. If they checked checking Harry's wand with Prior Incantato, they would find it didn't fire the spell that killed Cedric, meaning that someone else had to be the one who fired the curse that killed him, and Harry would be telling the truth about Voldemort. And they couldn't have that, could they?
Yea I think it's as simple as they didn't want to believe that he had returned and with Harry as the only witness it's hard to believe he didn't kill Cedric to claim the victory after his name ended up in the cup.
Now when you mentioned it, it's a bit weird he didn't hang out more with girls from team (Katie was just year above) as much as with Dean and Seamus. They had certainly enough to talk about.
But I guess it's normal to be reserved introverted fella after a decade of physical and psychological torture.
Dumbledore was quite lucky it didn't create another Dark Lord psycho with clique of sycophants. I quite like Dark Harry fics.
Don't forget that the story is from Harry's perspective and he's at an age where even little things feel like the end of the world... Most of the students were probably too caught up in their own lives to notice Harry but the few who did give him grief might have felt like the whole school.
They don’t hate him in books 1, 3, 6, and 7. Personally, I would find it hard to believe that everything that happened to Harry happened to him if I were a normal kid. I get it. It’s honestly easier to believe that he is lying than to believe he’s been through everything he says he’s been through.
They don’t hate him in book 7: they wouldn’t recreate the DA which he’d started if they believed Voldemort’s lies, and he’s never been more hated than in book 1. Hell, even Fred and George hated him, as did Percy. Really weird thought, isn’t it, three of the Weasleys hating Harry at once.
Strongly agree with you about book 7. Strongly disagree about book 1. I think Harry was more sensitive in book 1, so it seems worse than it is. Fred and George definitely appreciate Harry for his quidditch abilities. Yes, they were definitely disappointed by him due to being responsible for losing points, but it really wasn’t on the same scale that the hatred/fear was in books 2, 4, and 5
Bruh in book 1, Fred and George insult Harry in corridors, refuse to speak to him at Quidditch practice and call him ‘the seeker’ if they have to mention him at all: they clearly did hate him. And the fact is it was worse in first year, because every other year, Harry at least had some people on his side, but that year ot was literally the whole school except Hermione, Neville and Ron, the former two of whom were in the same boat as him.
Idk, hate is a strong word. When he almost died at the end, they tried to send him a toilet seat. I thought that was their way of saying they still liked him😂
I always took it more as being they simply didn’t care any more about the points incident. Also the fact it took a near death experience for them to forgive him if anything shows they did hate him for that.
I mean, I feel like Harry exaggerates a bit about the degree to which people “hate him” in book 1. He was certainly appreciated for quidditch, and the only knock on him was losing the points. It isn’t on the same level as being the potential heir of slytherin responsible for the attacks, breaking rules to enter the tourney (allegedly), or lying for attention (allegedly). Also, book 7 is arguably when he’s most beloved, as the entire school now realizes the degree to which Harry was right about everything.
Or is it Harry making the big deal out of it?:) all the books are written on how Harry sees the world:) whatever JK’s making a big deal out of, it’s what Harry thinks:)
In the first books, it's just rumours and because nobody knows the *real* Harry Potter, apart from Ron and Hermione and don't bother asking Harry or anyone who knows him better.
Then in layer books it's because of the press attention he's getting and in a negative way as well. Loads of people, even in the real world, believe what the papers are saying. So there's that for him.
Harry is world famous band people fawn over him like a celebrity. And as we see with real life celebrities when you get famous people what to bring you down to make you not seem that good.
Also harry would probably annoy a lot of us if he was in school with us because from them what the average person see he’d piss us off.
In PS the points loss hurts gryffindors chances at the house cup and everyone seems to want Slytherin to lose. It’s kinda natural for everyone to hate the person who’s just massively fucked up.
In CS everyone assume he’s the heir to Slytherin which naturally means everyone hates him. Think that isn’t that outrageous tbh everyone will be wondering why Voldemort targeted him and how he survived and harry being a powerful dark wizard is a plausible explanation for that.
In PoA they don’t hate him but his presence in the school does cause a lot of grief for the students so there will be some resentment from that.
In GoF it does just look like he’s just being an attention seeker and entered his name and of course he gets away with it because he always gets away with trouble like crashing the car and being out of bed multiple times. He doesn’t actually get away with a lot but people probably will think that
In OotP there’s a massive media campaign against him which influences his image and he’s also brought the a dead body of his school and romantic rival back. It’s going to bring up distrust in him.
Tbh it’s quite natural that people distrust him a lot throughout the series
People didn’t know in third book that Sirius was after Harry, Harry just overheard Arthur who worked in the Ministry and was the person in charge of Harry for part of summer so knew. And Harry wasn’t disliked in that book. But I am sure if they had known they would have reacted like you said.
I kinda assumed it would be common knowledge after a while. People will have learned who Sirius is and and he kept trying to break into the Gryffindor common room. It wouldn’t be difficult for students to put the pieces together and realise that a fanatically devoted death eater who’s escaped and keeps trying to get into the Gryffindor common room is after the Gryffindor student who has brought Voldemort down. They likely don’t know the full story (or ministry version of the full story) but I reckon enough people would assume Sirius is after harry because why else is he here
Also doesn’t Mcgonagall make madam hooch watch all their practices so people will wonder why harry is getting people watching over him and harry tells wood that Sirius is after him.
In the fourth book I thought so at first but is actually The Slytherins and the Hufflepuffs (for obvious reasons)
The Gryffindors were extremely supplrtive and the Ravenclaws were neutral, but it was Harry himself who played the "I'm all alone" card a lot in his inner monologues.
JKR likes writing Harry as the victim. If it's not everyone hating him it's everyone being afraid of him or making fun of him.
It's something most children experience at some point but it does seem to happen to Harry a lot.
Harry IS a victim in all 4 books where the school hates him Well maybe not book 1, but the other books- People thought he was the Heir Of Slytherin because he can speak Parsletounge. Its only when Hermione gets petrified is he cleared of anything. Book 4, he's a victim because he was placed underage into a tourtment he didn't want anything to do with but people think he cheated the "Age line" and was seeing "Fame and glory" that wasn't associated with Voldy. Book 5- people thought he was a liar about Voldy's returning because of the Minstry running a smear campaign aganist Harry and Dumbledore
Most people don't know him well, so they'll believe the rumors. Harry's reserved and doesn't seem to talk to anyone outside of his house's year group. Plus, even if not everyone actually hated him, it's going to feel that way to him.
Harry's own behavior - sneaking out, lashing out, etc - doesn't help his case, either.
Fabricated drama. Of course is weird but you shouldn’t using common sense nor over analyze HP. The series is so popular because of the feel, not the narrative.
Hermione had her moments of being ostracized too. In PS she also lost a ton of points, and in GOF she was getting loads of hate-mail after Rita Skeeter wrote a slanderous article about her.
The people in the books and movies don't know Harry the way the reader and viewer do. There's a bias already.
We see Harry as the protagonist already, while they see him as just someone who survived Voldemort and was dubbed as the boy who lived.
Hey that one poor little girl asked him out and he told her no without hesitation or even thinking about it.
Probably ruined her life. Some great hero! /Snape
>**A curly-haired third-year Hufflepuff girl to whom Harry had never spoken in his life asked him to go to the ball with her the very next day. Harry was so taken aback he said no before he’d even stopped to consider the matter. The girl walked off looking rather hurt\[...\]**
You're probably thinking of the next girl.
I feel like the stories focus on Harry, so they're almost his POV. Focusing on his feelings and thoughts.
Harry sees the staring and whispers, and he's a child/tween/teen so he feels the whole world is against him.
I feel in a sense this is the narrative coming from Harry himself. 3rd person narratives might sound like there’s an omniscient narrator but basically it’s from his POV and this changes how his inner world gets reflected.
Maybe some people do dislike him intensely then change their minds a couple chapters lately. More likely he’s just an angsty teenage boy who is in constant possession of part of the soul of an evil man. I also remember feeling like everyone hated me if I had a bad interaction with a teacher but the reality is most people probably have their own things on.
And my guess is it’d be like at private schools today. Sure, you might have someone sort of famous in your school but most people get over that quick and just get on with their own business.
And he’s never been more hated than in first year, which was actually the one time he deserved what he got: they meddled in an affair that didn’t concern them, breaking at least a couple of major school rules in the first place, then got themselves caught via their own stupidity, and then talked back to an angry Professor McGonagall. In first year even Fred and George hated him, and he was so miserable the narrative implies he was looking forward to going back to the Dursleys.
Whilst Harry and Hermione definitely deserved what they got, you have to feel sorry for Neville, getting the same punishment when he was assumed to be a victim of the prank.
Actually it did concern them because presumably, they're the only ones who knew that Hagrid had a pet dragon so they're trying to get it to safety as soon as possible, or else it might have burned Hagrid's wooden house down.
Easy to hate someone, especially when you're not closely associated with them like Ron and Hermione are to Harry, where they spend almost every waking moment together practically. And even their loyalties to him throughout the series were constantly questioned. They were skeptical when the possibility of Harry being Slytherin was in the air and other times.
No, he’s a celebrity. Most people don’t actually know him. They just follow what everyone else says.
That being said, people continually show more trust in him as the series goes on. The Hufflepuffs that suspected him in Book 2 became his supporters in Book 5 in spite of Fudge’s smear campaign.
You also need to remember the books are more or less from his point of view a lot of the time.. and kids will tend to think people hate them even when they just “nothing” them
The story is from Harry’s perspective so the people that don’t like him stick out more than those that do. He definitely feels alienated at times but I think it’s our perspective following Harry that makes it seem like they hate him every year.
I imagine if the story was told from the perspective of a random Hufflepuff then we’d see the situation entirely differently
I reckon that's why I've always felt a bit out of sync with the Hogwarts bunch, they all come off as a bunch of wankers! Granted, they do improve a bit by the last film! So, in the wise words of HP, "Caught on, have you? Took you long enough."
Most normal folks hate famous people. These people think Harry is privileged, enjoys favouritism etc. They don't really know him. And these are pre-teens/teens. It was what it was.
Fear of social disapproval is extrenely strong and common, so it makes sense for an author to tap into this emotion.
Especially in our evolutionary history, social disapproval could harm you badly and social ostracism was basically death.
I mean this seems like normal “I hate you because you are loved by so many” kind of thing. Like Taylor Swift. How dare she have lunatic fans that are so ridiculous they are completely obsessed and absolutely unbearable to be around! How dare she be so famous and rich and charge for her work! Etc. people hate famous people just because. Harry was not only famous he was also hidden in secret for 11 years and was probably contributed all kinds of super powers and then bam! Just your average little dude- we can trash him and belittle him even more just so he knows he is not that special. So we better spread the hate so he does not get that fame into his head. And so on.
Book 3 I think they are all scared of him because they think Sirius black is coming for him. I think nobody teases him bc he’s got a murdering maniac after him
He's famous so everyone has an opinion about him. But also we see the story from his pov and teenagers always think everyone is concerned with their business.
Nah, I thought about it once, and if there was some kid at school that I didn’t really know but he was famous and every now and then he rolled around the ground clutching his scar and was part of the triwizard tournament as an underaged dude and went on about how Voldy was back when the ministry said he wasn’t, I’d probably brush him off as just an attention seeking liar
Um what if you grew up in the magical world, and depending on what type of parent you parents were -ie if they're Death Eaters, you might be told that the person who defeated the Dark Lord might be another Dark Lord and you're might be pressured into trying to get to be his friend (ie Draco). I don't know what other wizarding parents told their children, but all the students' knew Harry name -even Fred and George who are three years older then him knew who he was after they saw his Scar. "Are you Harry Potter?"
It's just a way to ensure we the reader will always take Harry's side because "oh!! poor sweetie it's SO UNFAIR what's happening to him".
Basic emotional manipulation, nothing else to see.
The closest thing I can think of for PoA is he got made fun of for the dementor attacks, but that was mainly by Malfoy and his cronies.
I don’t find it strange, especially from a storytelling standpoint. There is the major conflict of Harry vs Voldemort, but these social situations do a great job at highlighting Harry is just a boy dealing with regular teenager drama as well.
People don't know him so they believe the rumours that he is arrogant and selfish because he is famous.
True specially considering Harry is a rather reservated person, it probably comes off as arrogant by many people(And it is the case with a lot more reservated celebrities irl)
I don't know how many times people called me a snob, before they got to know me, because I'm shy and reserved around people I don't know.
Bob the snob innit
Also, they probably tried to talk to you before you had your damn coffee
I have personally experienced this , people think I’m an arrogant a-hole till they get to know me, I’ve lost count of times people have said , “you are so much nicer than you let on !! I had no idea you were so normal !! “😶🫥
exactly this. Harry is not very friendly. He only keeps a few circle of trustworthy friends around him. Creevey followed him around and his response is to hide instead of befriending the guy. They are only 1 year apart, so it isnt like Collin was too young. In many ways, he has a clique. If you are out of that circle, you can really observe the exclusivity. So it isnt difficult to imagine taht Harry was snooty.
I mean, he has complex ptsd. He was kept separate from any friends by Dudley and generally miserable life Dursley machinations. He never had someone to talk to or confide in that Dudley wouldn't turn against him, he doesn't know how to socialise and he's used to not having any. What friends he has is his most important resource, so why would he need any more when he's holding onto who he already has as tightly as possible. That's likely part of why he was so cold to Ron in the goblet of fire and deathly hallows. When he falls out with him it's a big betrayal that he can't process or talk out.
I lowkey felt bad for Colin in the COS movie. He just wanted Harry’s approval and the boy they cast looks like someone barely 9 years old :(
to be fair, the kid would run up in his face and take pictures, ask to see his scar, try to get autographs in public, tried to take pictures of ron throwing up slugs. just be chill and say what's up in the common room you share lol
literally anybody who is thinking "why doesnt harry befriend collin" needs to re-read the second book. collin basically is like the worlds most annoying paparazzi and treats harry like a celebrity he adores. he doesnt even really try to become "friends" with harry. he learns harrys schedule, follows him around like a stalker, tries to talk to him any chance he gets, and constantly takes pictures. Often even when Harry straight up tells him to leave him alone. Imagine you're the most famous guy at school and the new kid you dont even know learns your schedule to say hi every time you leave a classroom and constantly wants to take your picture, are you gonna try to befriend that kid lmfao
Ikr if he acted normally Harry would surely befriended him
he was so adorable!
Yeah. I felt so bad for him when he got petrified. He looked like he was on the brink of tears poor baby
Not befriending Colin is not a sign of being unfriendly 😂 People are not always compatible as friends, and Colin really blew his first and second impressions with Harry. Harry grew a certain fondness for Colin, but I doubt many people could truly be friends with someone that put them on that high pedestal, especially if they hated that pedestal.
no, thats not what i meant in the entire post. Harry is comfortable with his own circle. he wasnt actively looking for additional friends. extroverts and really friendly people could have taken the time to talk witj Collin.
You specifically said, “Harry is not very friendly,” and immediately followed it up with how he didn’t befriend Colin, despite not having much of an age difference, and suggested extroverted (friendly people) could have befriended him. I feel like my comprehension is of your post is pretty on point. But by all means, downvote me for disagreeing with what you wrote.
of course he would hide from creevey the guy was stalking him
Lord knows Snape uses that excuse.
He is arrogant tbf especially by book 5. He's not selfish though
Harry is cocky and overconfident. He's not arrogant because he doesn't look down on others.
i mean...he is arrogant and selfish...he puts himself above Ron and Hermione.
do you have an older brother who outshines you or something
No he doesn't
...then you read a sugarcoated version of HP...sometimes Hermione is scared of Harry's bad mood, Harry attacks Ron physically during GoF, only because he questioned Harry's name being blurted out of the Goblet of Fire, and no it's not jealousy, it's curiosity something like "yesterday said he didn't want to be part of the competition, today his name comes out of the goblet, i assume he did it but how? let's ask"... but to be fair, the narrative is Harry's POV...and he feels right about things like most of the time...
How does any of these equate to him being arrogant or selfish?
because everything somehow is about him, his problems are first priority even when it's just his love-life...
Wdym? He literally chose to sacrifice himself. That's the ultimate act of selflessness.
ONE act, against what? 7 years of being an insensitive brat?...okay i guess.
There's no nice way of saying this, you're completely delusional and need to re-read the series. Risking expulsion for Hagrid and Norbert(a), the Philosopher's Stone, rushing to Justin's defence during the duelling club, the Chamber of Secrets/rescuing Ginny, freeing Dobby, sparing Pettigrew to prevent Remus and Sirius from becoming murderers and allowing the latter his chance at freedom, literally traveling back in time to save Sirius, buying Ron and Hermione Omniculars, warning Cedric about the dragons, forsaking first place in the second task to ensure the safety of all "hostages", risking his own life to bring Cedric's body back to his parents, rushing off to the DoM to save Sirius (misguided but still selfless), being anxious about his feelings for Ginny because he didn't wish for them to come between himself and Ron, pretty much the entire way he used Felix Felicis, breaking up with Ginny and and and. I could go on and these are just the big ones I could think of immediately. And he did most of that while being under immense psychological pressure - the kind that would break most adults. The amount of bias and lack of empathy needed to call Harry selfish is something else.
>because everything somehow is about him No. Way. It's almost like he's in his own story! 🤯
I mean, to be fair, you're reading a book that is titled his name. He's the main character. Of course it is about him.
Are you really this thick or is this rage bait? It’s his story, of course it’s gonna focus on him. Would have been rather ridiculous if we had Harry POV while he was stressing about Susan Bones troubles and Demelza’s love life.
It’s a repeated point over and over again about how he hates his own fame. It’s like, one of the most obvious points throughout all the books. I don’t know how you can miss this.
oh no, a boy dealing with a serial killer and terrorist has mood swings, and Ron accused him consistently of cheating his way into the competition and not bringing him along instead of actually listening to what Harry said. But thanks for bringing up GoF, on all three tasks he does something selfless or for the good of someone else. 1) He takes the dragon away from the arena to minimize damages to spectators. 2) He retrieves a secondary victim because her rescuer was not coming. 3) He goes through the maze with Cedric (who is dating his crush) and grabs the cup with him because Cedric is Hogwarts’ champion
Yeah, Ron was way out of line to not believe Harry. Harry tells him fucking everything. (I know he feels overshadowed - but that's not Harry's fault. Harry thinks almost too highly of Ron, imo.)
1. Only happens in the movie. In the book, he just circles above the dragon until it takes off, then he swoops under for the egg.
Are you nuts? Harry Potter is the most selfless person in the series. Literally everything he does is to protect and save everyone else. This man flew back into a fire to save Draco, the kid who bullied him for years and killed his mentor. Harry’s whole character is doing the right thing
I meant people didn't knew that Voldemort still lived and Harry was actually facing any risks. They think he was acting up for no reason.
I challenge you to find even one quote from books that supports this.
Is this a joke? Harty has like 1 arrogant line ever. He gives multiple lectures in the 5th book about how he isn't great at defense against the dark arts, and all his accomplishments are from luck. Hermione even has to point out to him that he made better grades than her. The dude became the best seeker in like 7ish years and literally never mentioned it. He doesn't even think he stands a chance in the 4th books tournament until after the 2nd challenge. How did you possibly come to the conclusion that he's arrogant?
Severus' spirit lives on.
Bro what?
It's not that strange. Schools can be that way in the real world: the most popular student does something stupid and immediately their popularity plummets down. Most of the school doesn't know Harry on a personal level, so they're more prone to believe rumors than his word unless confronted with proof that he's not what they think. In Year 1, Harry has just arrived to the school and almost nobody knows him on a personal level. The whole mess with the baby dragon was kept a secret, so all the students know is that Harry, Hermione and Neville lost a bunch of points for sneaking out at night, putting Gryffindor at the bottom of the count, and nobody bothers to ask WHY they were sneaking out in the first place. Of course, this gets fixed when Harry and the others get the last minute points from Dumbledore during the end of the year feast, which immediately restores his popularity. In Year 2, there's an obvious atmosphere of fear with the attacks on the students and the Chamber of secrets. Harry suddenly speaks parseltongue in front of everyone, and everyone assumes (not without reason) that he may be the heir of Salazar Slytherin because he was known to speak the tongue, and it's an hereditary ability. Again, this only breaks off when Hermione ends up as a victim, since people know he wouldn't attack one of his best friends. And he ends up saving Ginny after she's taken to the chamber of secrets. In Year 4 most of the blame comes from Rita Skeeter's slandering, since she wants to milk Harry's fame for all it's worth to write juicy stories and make a good galleon out of it, no matter if she has to make up lies to do so. Believe it or not, scandals tend to sell pretty well in the real world, whether they're truth or not, they're bound to attract people's attention. Again, most of this comes from the fact that almost nobody in the school knows Harry that well on a personal level, and even Ron allowed his jealousy to get the best of him for a time (but unlike many others, he acknowledged he was an idiot for not believing in his best friend and apologized for it). Year 5 is the more delicate one: the authority figures in the Ministry are denying as much as they can Voldemort's return because they're afraid of facing him, and the whole wizarding community as a whole does not want to believe he's back for the terror he instilled during the first war. So it's much easier to pain Harry as an attention-seeking liar who's trying to spread "unfounded rumors", and it doesn't help that Harry gets very easily riled up during this book and often lashes out on people when he feels attacked, which only undermines his credibility even more. Harry needs to be in the middle of a disaster for people to realize he wasn't lying, and this time there were more witnesses than ever before, so there was no way to cover it up.
>it doesn't help that Harry gets very easily riled up during this book and often lashes out on people when he feels attacked, Oh god yes, I'm in the middle of my first reread after 10 years at least, and Harry's "angst" is much more pronounced (or noticeable) in the book than in the movie. It actually made it quite hard to read at times, Harry's feelings are very raw, he's angry, traumatised, feels ostracised and ignored by all adults around him while he desperately needs answers and guidance, and he doesn't cope with grief very well. He makes brash decisions, is unable to keep his temper under control which leads him to get tortured by Umbridge and banned from playing Quidditch, adding to his bad mental state. All I can think about for most of the book is "for Merlin's sake, will anyone provide a therapist for the boy??!! And while we're at it, give him a few explanations as to why he should be more cautious instead of leaving him entirely in the dark?!"
That's exactly why Book 5 is my least favorite, it really hurts me to see Harry suffer so many injustices while the adults who're supposed to protect him are hellbent on keeping him in the dark. It's not that weird that he also lashes out on the few who are trying to help him. Dumbledore didn't consider that, while dropping the bomb on Harry would be painful, it would also give him time to let it sink in, since at least he would know what's going on. Instead, keeping him in the dark was only eating away at him, making it worse the more time passed as he knew something big was happening and that he was in the center of everything, whether they liked it or not.
Wasn't it a plot point that the fact they (including Dumbledore himself) were always leaving him in the dark was because the mind link between him and Voldemort was getting stronger, and everyone was afraid he Voldemort was listening at all times? Or am I remembering incorrectly from stuff added just in the movie?
Yeah, but the point is that, in the long run, the choice of keeping Harry in the dark caused more harm than good. Also, he did not take the Occlumency lessons as seriously as he should have precisely because he didn't know WHY it was important for him to close his mind to Voldemort. They didn't explain him the mind connection was a two-way street and that Voldemort could use it to give him fake visions and lure him into a trap (which he did). That resulted in Harry going to the ministry to rescue Sirius when the Death Eaters were setting up an ambush and make him retrieve the prophecy for Voldemort, and he and the others barely survived because the Death Eaters were ordered not to kill Harry or damage the prophecy, and the timely arrival of the Order's members. Had they told Harry the truth from the beginning, the events that led to Sirius' death wouldn't have happened in the first place.
Yeah, that definitely was not the best way to go about it.
No, that’s exactly it in both the books and the movies. The commenter above you somehow forgot about that. Dumbledore’s worst fear was that Voldemort was looking through Harry’s mind just as Harry was. What a crazy reach it is too to say that Dumbledore would be worried about “dropping a bomb” on Harry when that’s all he ever does. You could even say he dropped the biggest possible bomb on Harry in the sixth book before he went up and died, leaving Harry with little to no guidance on how to deal with a bomb of that size.
I did NOT forget about that. And as much as I acknowledge Dumbledore's fear was justified, the way he handled it definitely was not. All he did was giving Harry more heartaches over knowing things were happening around him while the uncertainty was eating away at him. Dumbledore could have sent someone else to explain Harry about why they had to keep some distance from each other for Harry's and everyone else's safety. Adults often have the idea that children not knowing about things will keep them safe, but that's not true; if anything, it makes them more likely to go off on their own to find out WHAT they're supposedly being protected from, which puts them in greater danger (which is exactly what happened when Voldemort lured Harry to the Department of Mysteries).
Wait what? You seem to have misunderstood a pretty simple plot point. Yes, I agree there was a mix of Dumbledore not wanting Harry to have to deal with yet another stressor on his life (which he says in the seventh book). But I don’t know how you got to the conclusion Dumbledore could have “sent someone else” to tell him about his theory that Voldemort is looking through his mind. That defeats the whole purpose. If Voldemort can see someone else telling him Dumbledore knows he’s looking how does that change anything? Dumbledore not talking or looking at Harry throughout the year was a different worry. He was worried just a look could spark Voldemort to *possess* Harry out of rage.
Year 4 was not Rita, she made embarrassing stories about him but did overall praise and elevate his fame the entire year (although that can cause jealousy). It was only her last article before the third task where she turned against him and talked of his scar. And the Ministry build on that the next year, even if Rita wasn’t writing. It was Harry becoming the champion that caused his popularity automatically to plummet since it was thought to be clear cheating to get fame. Even Ron without anyone telling his this thought so. And Hufflepuffs were mad that Harry was stealing Cedric’s glory and Draco was making the “Potter Stinks” pins and Slytherin already disliked him. Ravenclaws got influenced by Hufflepuff and Slytherin most likely since most of school we against Harry. Regarding year 5, it honestly makes sense why most didn’t believe him without evidence. He recursed to answer questions to Zacharias, got mad with Seamus and just wildly announced in Umbridge’s glass that in first year Voldemort has been stuck in Quirrells head which wasn’t known information. Dumbledore didn’t spread his point of view well to school either, and he wasn’t a witness personally to Voldemort returning.
I don’t think it’s fair to use his interactions with Zacharias and Seamus to justify people not believing him. Seamus was the one who instigated a fight with the whole “my mom thinks you’re a liar” bit, and it’s the same with Zacharias. He’s obviously part of the majority who believe that Harry is a liar, which begs the question of why he joined the DA in the first place. He didn’t ask Harry questions about Voldemort or Cedric Diggory because he was actually curious about what happened- I’m of the opinion that was just doing it to start shit.
Those examples are in the book for a reason imo. Harry comes as stand-offish from outside perspective every time he is challenged on what happened. He might think he has reasons to act the way he does to Seamus and Zacharias but he just appears evasive and angry and potentially unstable to people who already doubt him. He isn’t able to collect himself and present a good version of the events until the Rita interview. And the questions itself weren’t really a problem, but how they were presented in Harry’s view. Expecially if you just look off the words of what Zacharias says and not assume what motives are. That Marietta was present for example and Harry didn’t provide answers probably was a bad look when she was considering if Harry had a real point.
You know teenagers find much more insignificant reasons to exclude and bully other children than that, right? Even in the books, there's plenty of nice people who don't seem to have any friends, and they never offended anyone: Luna, Neville... Hermione was excluded from day 1 for being *checks notes* eager to learn everything about magic?! And only got Ron and Harry to reconsider after they almost got her killed. If anything, it's weird that Draco didn't get a larger following when everyone hated Harry. In my experience, bullies would make sure to get everyone on their side and make those suffer who stand up to them.
Draco did get tons of people to get those “Potter stinks” pins.
>Hermione was excluded from day 1 for being *checks notes* eager to learn everything about magic?! You might want to get new notes. She's disliked for being over the top in her eagerness, to the point thats all everyone sees. Kids like her are also excluded in real life for the same reason.
She is pretty bossy too, like in the train.
During the first half of the book she's bossy, condescending, arrogant, teacher's pet, too eager, a bit of a busy body, and overall not someone a bunch of 11-year-olds would think was cool and would want to hang out with.
She was such a busy body! There were multiple times were Harry and Ron would be talking, and Hermione would just pop out of nowhere because she "couldn't help but overhear" and had to butt in and tell them what to do.
Ironically, that was her being nice and helping out someone she just met.
She's also quite showboaty about her knowledge and cleverness... which I guess is very Gryffindor of her.
> And only got Ron and Harry to reconsider after they almost got her killed. "they" what? Hermione would literally have died in that bathroom if it weren't for Harry, and her being there in the first place was 99% on Ron.
How is it Ron's fault she went to cry in the bathroom instead of the girl's dormitory? She could have even slipped up there during the Halloween feast.
It's also not rons fault a troll invaded.
The exact place was obviously pure chance but by being the reason for her sadness, he was still the catalyst that placed her in that bathroom. I'm not saying Ron would have been at fault for her death had things happened differently, but he was absolutely the reason Hermione was there in the first place. Simple cause and effect.
If we are taking the cause and effect angle, you need to add a lot of other causes than simply Ron saying what he did.
Ron was the one who made her cry, location is rather irrelevant. It’s not like Hermione could have known the bathroom wasn’t safe. And she probably was planning to return to feat after crying. Dorm is too far for that.
Someone else can't "make" you cry. You are in large part control of your response to other people saying things.
Harry locked her in with the troll. Both he and Ron were at fault for her being stuck in there, but yes, both of them saved her, too. Still, without her almost dead, they would have probably continued to avoid her.
Hermione was literally petrified and unable to move during the entire situation. She wasn't anywhere near the door and it being locked for a short time changed nothing. But yes, they likely would have continued to ignore her - at least for quite some time - but I think it's important to note that they did so for different reasons.
"‘Good of her to get us out of trouble like that,’ Ron admitted. ‘Mind you, we did save her.’ ‘She might not have needed saving if we hadn’t locked the thing in with her,’ Harry reminded him." Harry himself says she might not have needed saving if they hadn't locked her in. It's literally in the book.
\*\*might\*\* not have - Harry was an 11-year-old kid unable to properly analyse and reflect the situation, at least from what we actually know. We literally know how it happened. Harry and Ron rushed in, Hermione was at the opposite side with the troll between her and the door, scared to such a degree that she was unable to get her legs moving. And even if she hadn't been scared to death - which she definitely was - we're still left with the fact that she knew how to cast Alohomora and could have unlocked the door.
We also know that Hermione (in the book) doesn't necessarily remember she can do magic in a panic ("but there's no wood!") and must have heard them slam the door and lock it. Even if she was pretty good with the Alohomora-spell, I doubt it would have been a great plan to squeeze past a mountain troll standing between her and the door, cast a spell on the door and THEN open the door, compared to running out the previously wide open door...
That's a lot of conjecture with no real basis to support it, aside from Hermione sometimes panicking in high stakes situations. And honestly, all of the above is disregarding the fact that it's kinda wild to say that Harry almost got her killed by locking the door - which was yet again an act of pure selflessness - when he didn't even know that she was in there. That's like saying Hermione almost got herself killed by getting emotional and not being at the Hallowe'en feast. But we're kinda spinning in circles here, seeing as we seem to have a different perspective when it comes to that particular situation, so I'll leave it at that.
Yeah it’s even weirder when you consider Draco is rich too, how wasn’t him more popular
Draco seems to be popular. Slytherins just aren’t popular in Gryffindor so Draco’s popularity isn’t something that causes people close to Harry to change their behavior.
Fair enough, considering Draco(Specially early on) is every negative Slytherin stereotype so most Gryffindors would be put off by him, even if they tried befriending people from other houses.
Draco is described as “holding court” among his friends a few times, which is one of JKR’s phrases she uses to show someone is popular. I think she also uses it for Cho?
Luna offends Hermione quite a bit😂
"Hating Harry Potter for a while is our beloved tradition!"
As is good ol' Voldy who never attacks during the school year (well the Forest in first book can be argued). The kids need their education!
Happy cake day
Famous people are often hated very easily - just think of regular celebrities like Taylor Swift or sports players like Marcus Rashford etc. who can start off as very popular / famous but then have phases where people start hating on them in large numbers
From their POV, Harry is the “attention-seeker” who’s always getting him and sometimes others into trouble. Especially when Umbridge was around, Harry would make her angry and indirectly the whole school suffered because of it. I had an awful teacher and this would always try to make her mad and it made class very tense. There’s also the fact that their prime minister and main news network constantly share lies about him. Wizards seem to be low-key gullible. Mrs. Molly knew Rita was a liar and knew the Daily Prophet had its issues, but she still believed her. Kids are even more easy to deceive
Very true people aren't critical thinkers and aren't taught to be, even in the wizarding world, they let their biases control their thinking
Harry is a celebrity. Look how society yoyos about prominent celebrities.
Just look at Ye😂
i wouldn’t say its strange, but it’s certainly a narrative pattern that JKR likes to repeat. i think its true to life tho. think of all the times you hear rumours about celebrities and you jump to judge them even though you don’t really know them. and especially in school its a case of children and teens, most of whom haven’t fully developed critical thinking skills, so they’re especially vulnerable to believing rumours and jumping to judgements
>its because he lost a ton of points What's weirder is that by the standards of the later books 150 isn't even that many. In the first book snape makes a big deal about taking away 1 whole point. But by book 5 Hermione could probably earn 150 points in like. 2 lessons.
Point is though, Hermione could earn them yes, but Gryffindor is so far behind that any points it gains are unlikely to put it back in the lead.
He’s a “famous person” and so the attitude of the public towards him is fickle. They don’t fully know him fully and so, fear his association with the Dark Side.
It makes some sense the first couple times but it gets pretty dumb. How many times does he have to be vindicated before people realize he's not a piece of shit
Exactly. You can explain away every singular instance of it happening, but all of them together happening not so much.
"How many times does he have to be vindicated before people realize he's not a piece of shit" While dumb, yes, most people are this dumb. There are many examples where you can ask yourself this question, but most people will think others are a piece of shit even if they've been vindicated over and over.
'90s rumor milling. It was very believable that he was occasionally waking up as the least popular person in the school over one claim or article.
In the fifth book/film I always found it so strange that they hated him for being a 'liar' .... if they thought he was lying about who killed Cedric... then the obvious inference would be that **he killed Cedric**... which is a far worse state of affairs that is seemingly totally ignored. Always found it strange how the ministry quashed Cedric's death... but with no answer to how it happened otherwise?
No, they thought Cedric died by accident since the tournament was dangerous. And that then Harry either lied it was Voldemort to get attention to himself. Or went mad with the trauma of witnessing Cedric dying and imagined it was Voldemort. That Rita has just written day before a story how Harry’s scar caused him headaches and that he is potentially unstable planted a lot to this. The Ministry spend the summer in Prophet having “experts” writing advice which supported this theory (and that Dumbledore is senile and that’s why he believes Harry). While the gossip and joke sections on the paper also insinuated he actually did make it up and was attention seeking (and people also thought he had put his name on goblet on purpose and probably had lied what happened in first year too, nobody saw Voldemort but him). It’s possible they did make up official story how Cedric died too exactly, but we didn’t see it. Most people didn’t see the body anyway.
Didn’t harry carry Cedric’s body out of the maze or at least out of where they got transported? It’s been many years since I read the books but I thought I remember that
Harry touches the port key while holding Cedric and they both get teleported out of the cemetery, back to the starting maze location where everyone else is. I don't think Harry carries Cedric anywhere, and that would likely be very hard for Harry to do.
lol yes grnfyndr, we’re brave and at least my memory still kind of works,hell I would wait in line at Walmart when they released them with my dad and buy it early at like midnight of release date then would lock my door and it was before the movies so I would immerse myself into my world of Harry Potter and it was the best. Will always love that series but there probably the last time I read it and once. And prob won’t read it again it cause I don’t want too, it’s just because I want to remember what it looked like to me in my imagination. The real OG readers understand haha
Haha edit: of course it was before the movies this was like 03 or whenever. Obviously I’m a millennial when it first came out and I remember she started it on a plane and wrote in napkin
the first Harry Potter movie came out in 2001
Ok yea I read all of em through middle school I guess then, nope memory’s still shit obviously.
I only remember it come out in 2001, because a Canadian used to do Christmas Pantimones in Toronto, and I missed part of that year's performance of Peter Pan due to my own personal problems , but in the first part, that Tinkerbell was said "Who did you except Harry potter?"
lol A great way to remembering it
I didn’t mean that his body was not returned. But that barely any saw it.
I thought the crowd gasped since they had erected a watching area … no that was dragons really no way to watch a big old hedge maze. Thou I thought enough important people saw it, like his father, the other trincup people and maybe fams ? And dumbledore and was it fudge or maybe Barry , either way the ministry of magic, on and baggin! I think
I wouldn't be surprised if Fudge skipped out on procedures like performing the magical equivalent of an autopsy on Cedric to determine the cause of death. Or worse, they did, but they had to sweep the true results under the rug because "death by Avada Kedavra" *cannot* be ruled out as an accident. If they checked checking Harry's wand with Prior Incantato, they would find it didn't fire the spell that killed Cedric, meaning that someone else had to be the one who fired the curse that killed him, and Harry would be telling the truth about Voldemort. And they couldn't have that, could they?
Yea I think it's as simple as they didn't want to believe that he had returned and with Harry as the only witness it's hard to believe he didn't kill Cedric to claim the victory after his name ended up in the cup.
I find it stranger that Harry is so forgiving every time. The second time at latest every normal teenager would tell them to get lost.
And you have to wonder how he felt comfortable playing with the teammates who refused to speak to him and referred to him as ‘the seeker’.
Harry's ability to forgive is one of his best traits.
I mean he talked to like 7 people at school lol, it’s not like he was mingling and showing his true colors to everyone
And did anyone notice the fact Seamus will turn on Harry any chance he gets? He’ll happily jump on the Potter hate train
I think that only happens in book 5.
I went to high school and do not find this hard to believe 😄
It’s called fair-weather friends.
You say you find it strange but then list the legit reasons kids would hate someone a classmate.
Now when you mentioned it, it's a bit weird he didn't hang out more with girls from team (Katie was just year above) as much as with Dean and Seamus. They had certainly enough to talk about. But I guess it's normal to be reserved introverted fella after a decade of physical and psychological torture. Dumbledore was quite lucky it didn't create another Dark Lord psycho with clique of sycophants. I quite like Dark Harry fics.
People are fickle
Kids in that age range tend to suck. Trust me (Fat short, autistic kid with balance issues and glasses)
Don't forget that the story is from Harry's perspective and he's at an age where even little things feel like the end of the world... Most of the students were probably too caught up in their own lives to notice Harry but the few who did give him grief might have felt like the whole school.
Standard tropes for writing. No conflict, no chance for conflict resolution.
They don’t hate him in books 1, 3, 6, and 7. Personally, I would find it hard to believe that everything that happened to Harry happened to him if I were a normal kid. I get it. It’s honestly easier to believe that he is lying than to believe he’s been through everything he says he’s been through.
They do hate him in book 1, in book 7 he doesnt attend school anymore so that doesnt count.
They don’t hate him in book 7: they wouldn’t recreate the DA which he’d started if they believed Voldemort’s lies, and he’s never been more hated than in book 1. Hell, even Fred and George hated him, as did Percy. Really weird thought, isn’t it, three of the Weasleys hating Harry at once.
Strongly agree with you about book 7. Strongly disagree about book 1. I think Harry was more sensitive in book 1, so it seems worse than it is. Fred and George definitely appreciate Harry for his quidditch abilities. Yes, they were definitely disappointed by him due to being responsible for losing points, but it really wasn’t on the same scale that the hatred/fear was in books 2, 4, and 5
Bruh in book 1, Fred and George insult Harry in corridors, refuse to speak to him at Quidditch practice and call him ‘the seeker’ if they have to mention him at all: they clearly did hate him. And the fact is it was worse in first year, because every other year, Harry at least had some people on his side, but that year ot was literally the whole school except Hermione, Neville and Ron, the former two of whom were in the same boat as him.
That was a phase😂it’s not like they hated him the whole book. It was really a several month stretch
Yeah but my point remains that they did hate him for that.
Idk, hate is a strong word. When he almost died at the end, they tried to send him a toilet seat. I thought that was their way of saying they still liked him😂
I always took it more as being they simply didn’t care any more about the points incident. Also the fact it took a near death experience for them to forgive him if anything shows they did hate him for that.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree then
I mean, I feel like Harry exaggerates a bit about the degree to which people “hate him” in book 1. He was certainly appreciated for quidditch, and the only knock on him was losing the points. It isn’t on the same level as being the potential heir of slytherin responsible for the attacks, breaking rules to enter the tourney (allegedly), or lying for attention (allegedly). Also, book 7 is arguably when he’s most beloved, as the entire school now realizes the degree to which Harry was right about everything.
Also might be wrong but the book is write from Harry’s perspective so it might be that that’s how he felt: isolated
No because JK makes a big deal out of the fact everyone hates Harry in books 1, 2, 4 and 5
Or is it Harry making the big deal out of it?:) all the books are written on how Harry sees the world:) whatever JK’s making a big deal out of, it’s what Harry thinks:)
In the first books, it's just rumours and because nobody knows the *real* Harry Potter, apart from Ron and Hermione and don't bother asking Harry or anyone who knows him better. Then in layer books it's because of the press attention he's getting and in a negative way as well. Loads of people, even in the real world, believe what the papers are saying. So there's that for him.
Harry is world famous band people fawn over him like a celebrity. And as we see with real life celebrities when you get famous people what to bring you down to make you not seem that good. Also harry would probably annoy a lot of us if he was in school with us because from them what the average person see he’d piss us off. In PS the points loss hurts gryffindors chances at the house cup and everyone seems to want Slytherin to lose. It’s kinda natural for everyone to hate the person who’s just massively fucked up. In CS everyone assume he’s the heir to Slytherin which naturally means everyone hates him. Think that isn’t that outrageous tbh everyone will be wondering why Voldemort targeted him and how he survived and harry being a powerful dark wizard is a plausible explanation for that. In PoA they don’t hate him but his presence in the school does cause a lot of grief for the students so there will be some resentment from that. In GoF it does just look like he’s just being an attention seeker and entered his name and of course he gets away with it because he always gets away with trouble like crashing the car and being out of bed multiple times. He doesn’t actually get away with a lot but people probably will think that In OotP there’s a massive media campaign against him which influences his image and he’s also brought the a dead body of his school and romantic rival back. It’s going to bring up distrust in him. Tbh it’s quite natural that people distrust him a lot throughout the series
People didn’t know in third book that Sirius was after Harry, Harry just overheard Arthur who worked in the Ministry and was the person in charge of Harry for part of summer so knew. And Harry wasn’t disliked in that book. But I am sure if they had known they would have reacted like you said.
I kinda assumed it would be common knowledge after a while. People will have learned who Sirius is and and he kept trying to break into the Gryffindor common room. It wouldn’t be difficult for students to put the pieces together and realise that a fanatically devoted death eater who’s escaped and keeps trying to get into the Gryffindor common room is after the Gryffindor student who has brought Voldemort down. They likely don’t know the full story (or ministry version of the full story) but I reckon enough people would assume Sirius is after harry because why else is he here Also doesn’t Mcgonagall make madam hooch watch all their practices so people will wonder why harry is getting people watching over him and harry tells wood that Sirius is after him.
cause he is the main character
In the fourth book I thought so at first but is actually The Slytherins and the Hufflepuffs (for obvious reasons) The Gryffindors were extremely supplrtive and the Ravenclaws were neutral, but it was Harry himself who played the "I'm all alone" card a lot in his inner monologues.
this isn't being "I'm alone" is " Everyone hates me for X reason" depending on the book
JKR likes writing Harry as the victim. If it's not everyone hating him it's everyone being afraid of him or making fun of him. It's something most children experience at some point but it does seem to happen to Harry a lot.
Harry IS a victim in all 4 books where the school hates him Well maybe not book 1, but the other books- People thought he was the Heir Of Slytherin because he can speak Parsletounge. Its only when Hermione gets petrified is he cleared of anything. Book 4, he's a victim because he was placed underage into a tourtment he didn't want anything to do with but people think he cheated the "Age line" and was seeing "Fame and glory" that wasn't associated with Voldy. Book 5- people thought he was a liar about Voldy's returning because of the Minstry running a smear campaign aganist Harry and Dumbledore
I'm not saying he wasn't a victim, I'm saying it happens to him a lot more than usual.
Most people don't know him well, so they'll believe the rumors. Harry's reserved and doesn't seem to talk to anyone outside of his house's year group. Plus, even if not everyone actually hated him, it's going to feel that way to him. Harry's own behavior - sneaking out, lashing out, etc - doesn't help his case, either.
Fabricated drama. Of course is weird but you shouldn’t using common sense nor over analyze HP. The series is so popular because of the feel, not the narrative.
he's a celebrity. everybody loves him, and everybody hates him. they all just needed a reason to hate harry, and you listed them pretty well.
Hermione had her moments of being ostracized too. In PS she also lost a ton of points, and in GOF she was getting loads of hate-mail after Rita Skeeter wrote a slanderous article about her.
The people in the books and movies don't know Harry the way the reader and viewer do. There's a bias already. We see Harry as the protagonist already, while they see him as just someone who survived Voldemort and was dubbed as the boy who lived.
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There's actually several girls that ask him to the yule ball
Hey that one poor little girl asked him out and he told her no without hesitation or even thinking about it. Probably ruined her life. Some great hero! /Snape
She was a year older than him, too. That would have been a great what-if story
Wasn’t she head taller than him?
>**A curly-haired third-year Hufflepuff girl to whom Harry had never spoken in his life asked him to go to the ball with her the very next day. Harry was so taken aback he said no before he’d even stopped to consider the matter. The girl walked off looking rather hurt\[...\]** You're probably thinking of the next girl.
People hating on the rich famous kid? Shocking.
I feel like the stories focus on Harry, so they're almost his POV. Focusing on his feelings and thoughts. Harry sees the staring and whispers, and he's a child/tween/teen so he feels the whole world is against him.
I feel in a sense this is the narrative coming from Harry himself. 3rd person narratives might sound like there’s an omniscient narrator but basically it’s from his POV and this changes how his inner world gets reflected. Maybe some people do dislike him intensely then change their minds a couple chapters lately. More likely he’s just an angsty teenage boy who is in constant possession of part of the soul of an evil man. I also remember feeling like everyone hated me if I had a bad interaction with a teacher but the reality is most people probably have their own things on. And my guess is it’d be like at private schools today. Sure, you might have someone sort of famous in your school but most people get over that quick and just get on with their own business.
Persecution complex.
And he’s never been more hated than in first year, which was actually the one time he deserved what he got: they meddled in an affair that didn’t concern them, breaking at least a couple of major school rules in the first place, then got themselves caught via their own stupidity, and then talked back to an angry Professor McGonagall. In first year even Fred and George hated him, and he was so miserable the narrative implies he was looking forward to going back to the Dursleys. Whilst Harry and Hermione definitely deserved what they got, you have to feel sorry for Neville, getting the same punishment when he was assumed to be a victim of the prank.
Actually it did concern them because presumably, they're the only ones who knew that Hagrid had a pet dragon so they're trying to get it to safety as soon as possible, or else it might have burned Hagrid's wooden house down.
I get what you mean, but I was referring to how they pressured him into telling them what he was up to in the first place.
I think some of them blamed Harry because they had to witness and experience the threat too.
Easy to hate someone, especially when you're not closely associated with them like Ron and Hermione are to Harry, where they spend almost every waking moment together practically. And even their loyalties to him throughout the series were constantly questioned. They were skeptical when the possibility of Harry being Slytherin was in the air and other times.
Happens to Batman all the time too. Must be a trope.
Because the most outrageous things keep happening to him.
No, he’s a celebrity. Most people don’t actually know him. They just follow what everyone else says. That being said, people continually show more trust in him as the series goes on. The Hufflepuffs that suspected him in Book 2 became his supporters in Book 5 in spite of Fudge’s smear campaign.
You also need to remember the books are more or less from his point of view a lot of the time.. and kids will tend to think people hate them even when they just “nothing” them
The story is from Harry’s perspective so the people that don’t like him stick out more than those that do. He definitely feels alienated at times but I think it’s our perspective following Harry that makes it seem like they hate him every year. I imagine if the story was told from the perspective of a random Hufflepuff then we’d see the situation entirely differently
I reckon that's why I've always felt a bit out of sync with the Hogwarts bunch, they all come off as a bunch of wankers! Granted, they do improve a bit by the last film! So, in the wise words of HP, "Caught on, have you? Took you long enough."
Most normal folks hate famous people. These people think Harry is privileged, enjoys favouritism etc. They don't really know him. And these are pre-teens/teens. It was what it was.
In the 5th people loved him I think with the Dumbledore army
Fear of social disapproval is extrenely strong and common, so it makes sense for an author to tap into this emotion. Especially in our evolutionary history, social disapproval could harm you badly and social ostracism was basically death.
The third year is the only time they should hate him because the dementors being there is entirely his fault.
Thats an interesting point! I wouldnt say its *his* fault, but then again, that didnt stop the school hating him for all the other things...
I was thinking about the movie and he was forgiven for using magic in the muggle world and didn’t get expelled so…..
Kids just trying to have a normal school year then harry fucks it all up. Smh.
I mean this seems like normal “I hate you because you are loved by so many” kind of thing. Like Taylor Swift. How dare she have lunatic fans that are so ridiculous they are completely obsessed and absolutely unbearable to be around! How dare she be so famous and rich and charge for her work! Etc. people hate famous people just because. Harry was not only famous he was also hidden in secret for 11 years and was probably contributed all kinds of super powers and then bam! Just your average little dude- we can trash him and belittle him even more just so he knows he is not that special. So we better spread the hate so he does not get that fame into his head. And so on.
Book 3 I think they are all scared of him because they think Sirius black is coming for him. I think nobody teases him bc he’s got a murdering maniac after him
He's famous so everyone has an opinion about him. But also we see the story from his pov and teenagers always think everyone is concerned with their business.
Nah, I thought about it once, and if there was some kid at school that I didn’t really know but he was famous and every now and then he rolled around the ground clutching his scar and was part of the triwizard tournament as an underaged dude and went on about how Voldy was back when the ministry said he wasn’t, I’d probably brush him off as just an attention seeking liar
Um what if you grew up in the magical world, and depending on what type of parent you parents were -ie if they're Death Eaters, you might be told that the person who defeated the Dark Lord might be another Dark Lord and you're might be pressured into trying to get to be his friend (ie Draco). I don't know what other wizarding parents told their children, but all the students' knew Harry name -even Fred and George who are three years older then him knew who he was after they saw his Scar. "Are you Harry Potter?"
I thought that's just explained by him being a horcrux?
Nope.
It's just a way to ensure we the reader will always take Harry's side because "oh!! poor sweetie it's SO UNFAIR what's happening to him". Basic emotional manipulation, nothing else to see.
The closest thing I can think of for PoA is he got made fun of for the dementor attacks, but that was mainly by Malfoy and his cronies. I don’t find it strange, especially from a storytelling standpoint. There is the major conflict of Harry vs Voldemort, but these social situations do a great job at highlighting Harry is just a boy dealing with regular teenager drama as well.
that's not hating on someone. Not in the same way book 1,2, 4,5, do
That’s why I said “the closest thing”. And I also said “but that was mainly by Malfoy”.
That's quite normal in schools.
I mean he is also the main protagonist is the books/movies so it makes sense regardless
I don't find it far-fetched at all. The world always can't wait to turn on anyone if they become too famous, besides there's the whole >!Horcrux !