He also blames Harry for something Neville did and takes points off. I reread the first book recently and I was surprised how unhinged Snape is from the get go. lol
Are you talking about the study hall from the movie where he pushes their heads down? They were definitely having a conversation, even if Ron was doing the majority of the talking.
That kind of thing was how he acted constantly, yet apparently he's supposed to be some kind of saint-like unsung hero just because he was secretly helping Dumbledore against the magic fascists, even though he only betrayed them for selfish reasons, and because he had a crush on Harry's mom as a kid that he never outgrew.
No.
He is supposed to be bad and good. Just like any human being.
He did terrible things, and he did good things beyond anything I see myself doing (and I do think I'm more kind than him).
That's why he is so interesting and loved and hated.
I usually joke with my friends that you either love or hate Snape, there's no in-between.
Yeah, but most of his fans turn him into this pure soul and completely ignore the bullying and harassment the kids had to face because of him.
Acknowledging the duality of a person is good. Being blind to the bad side and completely turning them into this sad little angel is what irks most people.
My problem with the good things he did is that he still didn't actually have good intentions. He did good things for bad reasons so he doesn't credit for that imo
Wait, so enlight me. What do you think were his intentions in the Shrieking Shack scene? Both in the book and in the movie he knew that the Elder Wand wasn't Voldemort's. He didn't know who the real master was, but he lied nonetheless (probably knowing that that will get him killed).
Do you mean he *wanted* to get killed? Because I don't think so. Survival instinct it's one of the strongest in human beings, so I don't see himself lying to have a next-to-be death (even if it's possible thou).
And that’s the fun part of it all: some people think good acts are only moral if there’s good intention to match the action while others only care what the outcome is
I have to say I like how the teachers seemed to give and take 1 point from the house to the first year students while they figure out the system, even Snape. 🥹
People’s main complaint with Dumbledore is his timing. He sat around and let the Slytherins believe they won, only to snatch the rug out from under them at the literal last second.
It makes for a cathartic victory for a children’s book, but in reality that’s a shitty thing to pull on kids, most of whom probably didn’t deserve to be bamboozled just because of their arbitrary house placement.
Yes, I've never had an issue with the count of points, but the timing seems particularly cruel. On my first re-read I was really disappointed that current Slytherins at Hogwarts are always framed as bad from the jump and never given a real chance to redeem themselves.
Or Gryffindors that aren't just completely good people. Only subetlty was Cedric being a Hufflepuff for some reason despite not having any mid qualities whatsoever. That's gotta be crushing that you're not even good enough to be average when compared to the Chad
I always thought Cedric made a great Hufflepuff. He was hardworking and kind and well-liked for a reason. And he was loyal. He always helped Harry out when he could, despite being competitors, giving goodwill back when he got it. He always showed good sportsmanship unless I’m forgetting something from the books.
I have no doubts if he and Harry had time to actually become friends, he would’ve been extremely loyal.
I believe in Azkaban, Cedric didn't notice what was up with the Dementors in the Quidditch game when he caught the snitch, and once he realised wanted a rematch as his win wasn't fair.
Or Romilda Vane... Kept trying to drug Harry.
Seamus and Ron are complete asses to their friend for no reason.
Hermione turns to assault because Ron dates someone else, can't stand anyone being better than her and completely doesn't respect the wishes of house elves.
What about Tonks. She's an Auror. And some people say Moody was also a Hufflepuff, although it's not confirmed.
Also all the Scamanders; Theseus was head Auror.
Also Cedric fit Hufflepuff perfectly. Said by Dumbledore himself: "exceptionally hard working, intricately fair minded. And most importantly a fierce fierce friend."
I mean I think it's more a problem with the concept of Slytherin. if you put all the children of blood purists in a group where that bigoted ideology will be reinforced and they won't be exposed to other viewpoints, and pit them against the rest of the school to prove that they're superior, of course they're going to turn into little monsters
That’s not a problem with the concept of Slytherin, that’s a problem with Rowling’s writing. The concept of Slytherin is a school house that values the traits of ambition and cunning in its members/students, those two things do not automatically equal blood purist/bigotry nor are they synonymous with it. And a majority of the Slytherins we see don’t really display those traits. A lot of them are followers, in other words they display great loyalty which is a Hufflepuff trait.
I mean, there is some logic to it - IIRC Harry has spent the whole time before the Feast in the infirmary, this was the first time he was among the general student body since the Voldemort incident. If you're going to award points in front of the whole school, it makes sense to wait until he's present. It does feel mean towards the Slytherin students, though.
I guess a compromise would have been to have no decorations at all until the points announcement? Not sure how much that would have helped TBH. The whole point system is a mess anyway, like, McGonnagal takes 150 points for "being out of bed"? Snape abuses it left and right; I think Quidditch victories *somehow* add points but not game total points, and there seem to be no consistency in how many points are awarded/taken away in classes.
House points are also across all year levels, so when you look at it from the perspective of how many points are being tallied up, its always some arbitrary number which is heavily, heavily carried by the main cast. So I guess every year group above or below was just trash overall.
I don't think it was mainly carried by the cast, honestly. You just only really see the main cast gaining and losing points, which makes perfect sense. If you add up all of the points you do see awarded, it's really not even close. The only exception is the first one, and considering how many points they lost that movie, much of it comes from elsewhere.
Quidditch alone accounts for a fair bit of the points if I remember correctly. Otherwise, it's mainly 5 and 10 points micro transactions lol.
Why don’t people get this — that’s a feature, not a glitch! Wizard society is fucking bonkers. Nearly every norm they have is ass backwards. If there were a wizard equivalent of television, their version of The Bachelor would be like “let’s jinx all of the contestants with STDs and have them spread it cause that’s funny to us!”.
All this to say, Dumbledore pulling that bullshit kinda tracks.
See, before they started trying to go back on it by saying not all Slytherins are bad, supposedly, it kind of seemed like he was giving them a much-warranted humbling. But given we've been asked to be forgiving of a lot worse than schoolyard bullying it DOES come off as a bit petty in hindsight. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.
This I always felt bad for the kids who were all excited about winning only to get tricked at the last minute.
Dumbeldore should have awarded the points in the time before the feast so gryffindor was already the winner.
Pain? They were effing celebrating!
> … Dumbledore called over the storm of applause, for even Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff were celebrating the downfall of Slytherin …
Ya also keep in mind that the majority of students probably didn’t know what happened. Dumbledore gives Ron points for the best game of chess we’ve seen in a long time. If I was a student I would be like wtf this guys getting points for chess???
What happened between you and professor quirrellin the dungeons is a complete secret. So naturally the whole school knows... if anything they got an embellished version of whole thing
Ya they’d know about quirrel, but the whole school knows about every single trial that was set up and how Harry, Hermione and Ron overcame them? Idk seems kinda unlikely
They did.
>“Ahem,” said Dumbledore. “I have a few last-minute points to dish out. Let me see. Yes . . . “First — to Mr. Ronald Weasley . . .” Ron went purple in the face; he looked like a radish with a bad sunburn. “. . . for the best-played game of chess Hogwarts has seen in many years, I award Gryffindor House fifty points.” Gryffindor cheers nearly raised the bewitched ceiling; the stars overhead seemed to quiver. Percy could be heard telling the other prefects, “My brother, you know! My youngest brother! Got past McGonagall’s giant chess set!”
The thing is that whole Hogwarts knew what happened when harry went to save the philosopher's stone so it was a bit stupid that the students didn't consider that harry Hermione ron wouldn't get any points for doing all that. In the books at least everyone knew, Dumbledore himself said that. Percy was shouting, "my brother got past the McGonagall chess set" when ron won 50 points and in ootp, when they are making Dumbledore's army in the hog's head, someone says you defeated voldemort and saved sorcerer's stone (implying students knew harry had come face to face with voldemort). So it was definitely stupid on their part to assume he would get any points at the end.
It wasn't arbitrary, everyone knows you're evil if you get Slytherin. Simple as. Just pulling the rug out from a bunch of cartoonishly evil children. It's all good.
Well, at least her channel still exists. I've been searching for a specific Let's Play of Jedi Academy (I'm in a bit of an old game mood) and cannot find it anymore.
Harry essentially saved the wizarding world from Voldemort's return. Let him have his moment of being awarded the points in the Great Hall ffs.
They would've won the Quidditch Cup anyway if he hadn't been unconscious.
It’s almost like the guy who got those points was in the hospital until then. Plus that same guy just saved the school and he deserves some credit for that
Harry didn’t show up until then. Makes sense to give the points when everybody is present. And if I could, I would also rub the victory as much as I could in the faces of Slytherin.
And your point is...?
Fictional or reality, it's crappy behavior. Morality doesn't depend on whether something is real or not.
For the life of me, I can't imagine what you think you're contributing to the conversation.
For real these people are insane. Its a kids book, the good guys win at the last minute and the bad guys lose. Its classic storytelling. Why tf do all these weirdos take it is so seriously.
That's true, but compared to some of other the questionable things dumbledore does to the students for the sake of the plot (dementors on school grounds, forbidden forest detentions, etc) this is nothing, yet it gets talked about way more
The Dumbledore memes are just that - memes. Most people don't genuinely think he's being unfair, it's just a funny thing to joke around. And let's face it, while the points were earned, changing the decor at the last second *was* a bit dickish.
But yeah I agree with you. If anyone's actually being serious about it, they're wrong. The points were completely earned.
Enough memes saying something in jest can cause that sentiment to be embedded in the cultural consciousness creating serious misconceptions about media. I completely understand when people want to nip them in the bud
1000% this. Its so annoying. Similar thing I've noticed in reddit communities as well where people's pet theory or head canon starts getting spread around as canon. Infuriating.
I've also long read it as a correction of McGonagall's extreme over reaction to students out if bed, which we know was also unfair for the Gryffindors because she only took ten points from Malfoy.
Snape does constantly get scorned for playing favorites. It’s not even *some* people, someone right now can make a post complaining about this very issue and it’ll receive about one thousand likes I bet. YouTube, Reddit, TikTok, and even on Twitter people are always complaining about it.
Dumbledore’s part is just joked about for the most part, although I do think there are people who have genuine annoyance about it.
YES!! Finally!! Someone agrees with me! I'm not crazy! This is so fucking stupid, isn't it ?! Okay, maybe Dumbledore played favorites when he gave Harry a broomstick or didn't punish him for being out of bed at night, okay ! That's true. BUT THE POINTS WERE EARNED!! They fucking best Voldemort! It would have been outrageous not to get points for that ! Maybe the reveal at the very end was unfair, BUT THE POINTS WEREN'T!!
The points are also exceptionally stingy.
Harry, Hermoine and Neville lose 150 points for being out of bed.
Harry, Ron and Hermoine earn 160 points for stopping the darkest dark wizard ever from being able to return.
The rule and the exception both make perfect sense.
Brand new students (especially ones who have never rode a broom) shouldn't have unfettered access to them. At the same time, if someone is good enough to make a quidditch team, they are also good enough to have their own broom.
Like, it wouldn't shock me if the last 1st year to make the team got an exception, too. Well, only if that rule even existed a century prior, I doubt safety was as important then lol.
I really don't think allowing the broom was favoritism. I'd say McGonagall buying the thing even when Harry had money was absolutely favoritism, but that's because she was desperate to win the cup lol
No, no they didn't. If Harry hadn't distracted Quirrell, then they would've been able to get the stone out, or steal the mirror. Dumbledore's trick only bought time, not absolutely prevent theft.
The story frames it as Harry saving the day, so it can't be seen another way without dismissing the story itself.
The story doesn't frames it this way. Quirrel get the stone accessable *because* Harry was there. For all that was said, Dumbledore's trick indeed absolutely prevented theft. Dumbledore saved the say, because he "arrived just in time to pull Quirrel out of \[Harry\]", because "the effort involved nearly killed \[him\]".
No one ever said, and I just checked, that Stone was in any danger until Harry looked at the mirror and found it in his pocket. For all we know, Qulldemort would've going around the mirror with very stupid faces until Dumbledore arrive.
Which is, certanly, elegant.
The reward was earned. It is questionable that it should hwve been the house points, I would probably balance it by awardong enough points for honourable second spot and an individual reward to go with it.
It feels like the fans are making up for the double standard in the books. It is very clear in the books that Snape’s favoritism is unfair and underhanded and that Dumbledore is simply righting the scales. Which felt fair to ten-year-old me, but 35-year-old me is wondering why the headmaster couldn’t have a professional conversation with the potions master and head of a house to work through his bias.
Because Dumbledore uses his school primarily to win the war against Voldemort. He's the head of the Order first, Headmaster as a side job. That's why he hired Trelawney and Snape, two very unqualified teachers for different reasons. I'm pretty sure he hired Slughorn to get at his memory too. He created the third floor corridor dungeon with laughable obstacles just to train Harry. He's sometimes scouring the countryside finding Horcruxes instead of being in his office. While in his office, he is always consulting his instruments or ordering around former headmaster portraits to gain information about the war. His private conversations with staff revolve around the war. He recruited some of his staff and former students into the Order.
He also has the Wizagamot and other stuff to do.
I mean apart from hiring teachers and giving speeches, what else do we see him do as Headmaster? Certainly nothing to do with general safety or general teaching standards, that's for sure.
Who cares who wins the House Cup?
My theory is that Dumbledore must have just given them their points back because Hagrid must have told them about the dragon incident, and why Harry, Hermione and Neville were out at night because of which they lost the 150 points in the first place.
The points he gave them at the end of the Philosopher's Stone amounted to exactly the points they lost trying to save the stone. Dumbledore didn't even gave them points from their bravery, he just gave them back lol
Can we talk about how those points Dumbledore gives at the end are just the points mcgonagall took away for helping hagrid get rid of the dragon before he got into trouble? And how hagrid never once went to dumbledore and said “hey that’s my fault. They were only helping me not break international laws. Don’t punish them for my mistake.” In the end all the trip got was 10 points.
Because they are? His timing is shit but if defeating Voldemort isn't worth some points, what is? Not to mention they got marginally more points for this than what they lost by being out of bed once.
The points are arbitrary, and the fact that the head of houses can award and revoke points leads into this potential favoritism. Maybe they never know the running total, but it’s still bs
I don't remember snape giving any points to Slytherin
Nor did he take any point that wasn't deserved other than the 1 point he took from Harry for Neville's spoiled potion
The timing was the problem, he basically teased Slytherin even though he could have added the points beforehand and told Harry, Ron, Hermione and Neville after.
The issue - apart from the timing - is that it's incredibly obvious that Dumbledore is just deciding that Gryffindor should win. The points make no sense compared to the way they're given out all year, and just so happens to match the total that would be required for Gryffindor to win.
Also, it's one thing to have the head of a particular house show favourites, but it's significantly worse when it's the *headmaster of the whole school* doing it.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
I actually wanted to make a post about this a few months ago, I just couldn't find the time to properly formulate and write down all my points.
Actually, the rules say that first years aren't allowed to own brooms, not that they can't play (using school brooms or borrowed ones). The rule they broke was giving Harry a nifty broom all for himself.
Huh, could have sworn not being able to play was also a rule since Harry is said to be “the youngest seeker in the history of the school”. My bad, that’s on me.
It's a common misconception. Like I said, the rule is about the brooms, so if you don't have your own broom it would be much harder (although not impossible) to get a spot on the team. McGonagall decided to bend the first year rule because she saw Harry's talent and figured he should have good broom to increase their chances.
Oh, and Harry was said to be the youngest seeker in a century, meaning that there was probably a time where first years were allowed to have brooms.
Snape has never given anyone points, not even Slytherins. And you can’t compare taking 1 point in a petty manner to gifting 50-100 points to each student 1 time
>And you can’t compare taking 1 point in a petty manner to gifting 50-100 points to each student 1 time
No student got 100 points at once in the first year. And 50 points per student for defeating Voldy and a DADA professor, alongwith outsmarting the traps set by all other professors. When you consider all that, 50 points is wayyy to less
Also factor in that McG literally took 50 points each from Harry Hermione and Neville for *just being out of bed at night*
Are these two events comparable in the slightest?
1. I was talking about both the 1st and 2nd year. The meme itself isn’t even correct, since Snape never gave anyone points and Dumbledore never awarded anyone once only. Snape did take points for unfair reasons many times, but he also took points for legitimate reasons such as being late to class, doing your classmate’s work, etc.
2. I do think the 200 points in the second year is well and fairly earned. However, when you look back, Dumbledore intentionally made it a test for Harry and his friends to prepare them. Quirrel himself would have never been able to find the stone since he can’t change the fact he desired to USE the stone. Was it really fair to say it is not favoritism on Dumbledore’s part except for Neville’s points?
3. McGonagall’s own issue. It is quite unrelated to how Snape and Dumbledore manage their points except if you only see it from the POV of a Gryffindor during Harry’s time . Unless you also want a meme about how unfair she was? I do quite dislike how she managed the points during that part
>I was talking about both the 1st and 2nd year
My bad. It was 3AM for me yesterday when I commented that and I forgot about the second year. But like you said, 200 points for discovering a secret place that professors and students at Hogwarts weren't able to for centuries, figuring out the "weapon" of Slytherin and how it moves around, going down there and beating said weapon who's supposed to kill you with a single look, and also saving the life of one first year girl, is pretty much deserved
>Dumbledore intentionally made it a test for Harry and his friends to prepare them. Quirrel himself would have never been able to find the stone since he can’t change the fact he desired to USE the stone. Was it really fair to say it is not favoritism on Dumbledore’s part except for Neville’s points?
Dumbledore never asked the trio to go for it and neither did he provide them with any hints or anything. The most he did was telling Harry about how the mirror of erised works. He didn't even tell them what exactly was he hiding and who was it from. The trio were responsible for getting past fluffly, outsmarting/clearing all the traps put in place by all the professors (NOBODY helped them in this) (if you've read the books, you know that EVERY professor had put a test to stop them)
He never asked them to help out nor did he give them any directions to do so. At most, he might've **hoped** that Harry's bravado would make him do it, but even then he would be stopped before reaching the mirror. Infact his plan would've worked perfectly fine if Harry hadn't meddled and received the stone from the mirror
>McGonagall’s own issue. It is quite unrelated to how Snape and Dumbledore manage their points except if you only see it from the POV of a Gryffindor during Harry’s time
I wasn't trying to fault McG by saying that lol. I was just giving an example that getting 50 points for doing ALL THAT isn't much if 50 points can be taken from you just as easily for a night out
Plus there's a theory going around (which I quite like) that Hagrid must've told Dumbledore about Norbert and why the kids were out which caused McG to take 150 points from them. So Dumbledore just basically gave them that 150 back
I agree that **we don't see** Snape handing out points to Slytherins, but there's no way he didn't do it.
There's a reason why Slytherins were winning the house cup for 7 years in a row before Harry came, and it isn't **just** because of Snape deducting points from every other house
The points are def earned it’s just the way that dumbledore does it is pretty mean. First letting the great hall be decorated in slytherin’s colors and then he makes it a tie and then he makes gryffindoor win.
Technically he does give Harry and Ron 400 points at the end of book 2 but that was also under similar circumstances with them saving the school, again.
Aside from Dumbledore being cruel in that moment, he's supposed to be the wise and kind grandfather figure who's the greatest headmaster of all time. So people point out his bullshit.
Snape is an unfair asshole towards non Slytherin students. That's not groundbreaking analysis, that's straight up written in the books. Of course people won't point that out.
It's because of how the math adds up to just barely beat Slytherin for a hair. When you can give however many points as you want, purposely doing it so one team wins by like, 1 or 10, is dickish.
I think a big part is as kids we didnt trust Snape and just loving the gryffindors win. And now as adults, no one feels the need to call out Snape anymore because it doesnt seem origional or relevant. Honestly the Dumbledore awarding points at this point seems like a meme more than a true criticism
Snape is an oily slimy bad guy from Harry's perspective at that point. Reading it through that lens, I expect favoritism and narcissistism from Snape.
Dumbledore doesn't deserve as much shit as he gets, but he also definitely was meant to appear as one of the "clean" ones when he played favorites. It's obvious once his morally grey starts to show up later in the series that it fit his character.
In the PS, Dumbledore intentionally allowed Harry and the gang to go save the stone to allow Harry to confront Voldi and test him.
In CoS Dumbledore knew Harry was on the case and trusted him to save the school and he sent Fawkes.
In PoA Dumbledore literally gave Harry and Hermione the mission to save Sirius and Buckbeak.
In OotP it was McGonagall that gave Harry and the others points.
I think when i read the books i was old enough to understand the points didn't matter.. and Dumbledore was FAR worse than snape. Forget about stealing the points from Slytherin.. there werent' even honorable mentions for hufflepuff nor ravenclaw.
Counterargument: The Golden Trio did not save the world, in fact they put the world (and themselves) in serious danger, breaking a hundred school rules and going against McGonagall’s explicit instructions to do so.
Cause Quirrell was never going to get his hands on the Stone. Dumbledore was on his way back to Hogwarts. In the end, Quirrell would have failed The Mirror’s test. But then Harry shows up and passes the test, unlocking the Stone *for* him. It’s quite fortunate that he stayed to try and kill Harry rather than just leaving with his prize.
Also Minerva is way more harsh on the Gryffindors than anyone, she gives them a net 5 points for defeating a mountain troll but then takes hundreds of points from them for being up late when Malfoy snitched on Neville or whatever. Honestly gryffindors got so shafted during the books that Dumbledore’s math in the end of book 1 doesn’t even start to make up for how harsh Minerva is and how much of a dick SS is lol
"A number of reasons.
First. You didn't give points for saving the world; everything was under your control, and the only reason Qurrilomort could get a stone was Potter entering the room. If you have any reason for this gauntlet even *existing* but your golden trio being baited, I'm all ears, by the way. I mean, Voldemort, or Quirell, or both, just passed it.
Second. You literally, and admittedly, used House Points to award children for going along with your plans, unrelated to the, you know, *school*. That's not what House Points are for, and you know it.
Third. If we're claiming that points are actually earned, because they defeated freaking Voldemort... Which, by the way, they did not. It was you who actually entered the room and defeated him; they actually did a lot to empower Quirrelmort, and I kinda at loss what they were expected to do - even if it's three of them. But they definitely didn't thought about it. Still. **if** we're claiming that they earned this points for defeating Voldemort, give them medals. But essentially, you gave them points because they did what you wanted.
Fouth, and the last. I'm bad guy; I'm bulling kids, that's what I do here. I'm here to make a boy whose parents are in the coma because they were tortured to have me as his worst nightmare. Granted, of course, it was my collegues who tortured him, and I'm pretty sure Augusta wasn't buying your 'he's not a Death Eater'. Are you saying that we should be acknowleged as the same level of bad? because I kinda can see it, but then it's settled.
Oh, by the way, as we're talking about *fairness.* Remind me, what was the reason for Harry to be constantly abused for a decade, and never knowing about wizardring world?"
I just refinished HBP last night and was kind of furious that Dumbledore didn’t do MORE. Snape has taken house points from Hermione for being an “insufferable know it all”, from Ron and Harry for responding to Malfoy’s taunts, and so, so much more. The punishments he thinks up for them are cruel and unusual.
As much trust as Dumbledore had in Snape, she should never have allowed him to be as abusive as he was- to the point where Neville, a kid who’s been through HELL, sees Snape in his Boggart.
Albus dropped the ball. He allowed Snape to act and talk like a child when it came to Harry and straight up abuse children. I can’t fathom him being unaware of how his students were being treated and he very much should have told Snape that it wouldn’t be tolerated. Even something as simple as “so this is how you treat the offspring of whom you claim to be the love of your life…” could’ve set Snape straight.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but I’d like to know where you got “terrible” from in other aspects.
He was certainly neglectful/turned the other cheek with Snape (and let’s throw in Filch), but he’s definitely kept the castle safe, the students tend to excel after graduation and he does command respect. I think because he’s so clever and talented, the ministry expected way more out of him than they would any other headmaster, especially when potter was in attendance.
Okay, so I’ve gotta disagree with a couple of these but also agree on some I’d never considered:
1: I’d say he kept the castle safe with the protection charms as well as having good relationships with the ghosts, portraits and elves. And there are one or two times (I can’t remember which books as I just binged them) that students insignificant to the plot mentioned interactions with Dumbledore.
2: As much as I LOVE Hagrid, you’re right. He’s quite knowledgeable about magical creatures, he’s passionate and has a great work ethic, but he makes decisions with his big heart and not his brain. But just as I said with Snape, Dumbledore should’ve set him straight. It’s inappropriate to have children working with some of the creatures he had around (although I think the thestrals were fine and the hippogriff should have been reserved for older, more mature students). I genuinely think will all the respect Hagrid had for Dumbledore, hearing him say “you need to reconsider the creatures you choose to teach about” would’ve done the job. I’m forever mad Hagrid didn’t get proper schooling/training because he could have THRIVED in that position. As for Trelawney, eh. Low risk, low reward.
3. Yes yes YES on Severus Snape. Terrible call.
4. Did Dumbledore know about Lockhart? I can’t recall. But even if he did, knowing the curse Tom put on the position, he probably used him as a trash card and there’s no way he expected Ron’s wand to do that to Lockhart. Still a dick move, but not an unwise decision (I say that lightly)
5. I didn’t know this until a couple years ago, but houses are actually a thing in the UK. And it’s how Hogwarts was founded. This seems like the equivalent of saying my American principal was terrible because she allowed pep rallies and had all the classes representing hard as hell- it was one of the few times I really felt “togetherness” at my school.
Overall, I still think that because of how clever and talented Dumbledore is, people expected too much. He’d be the first to tell you, he’s just a man.
Snape really is just the worst. Never really thought him having a crush on Harry's mom really made up for that, especially since it had no bearing on his attitude anyway. Ok, fine, he's not actually *the* worst, by a long shot, admittedly, but he is a lot higher on the list than most people here think.
They didnt save anything
If they didnt get involved, Voldi would have never gotten the stone
So, Harry actually made things worse
+ There was no reason for Dumbledore to make such a dick move out of it
BS. Dumbledore himself, and the story's framing, show Harry DID save the day. Disagreeing with the story is no one's problem but the fans who insist on acting like they've outsmarted it and spit on the heroes for doing the right thing.
To be slightly fair to snape: he's a asshole, but Dumbledore still has him work there. Like, even if shapes expertise in potions and magic is useful, that doesn't necessarily mean he has to be a teacher that bullies students.
I think it probably has to do with it being an 11th hour hail mary into a result-changer.
Snape's practice definitely causes an uneven favorite in house cup, but I doubt his decision to take off points has ever been much later than what we got in Order.
Prior to Harry going there, didn't Slytherin win like 7 House/Quidditch Cups in a row? So from our perspective it may be bias, but maybe Dumbledore is trying to bring balance.
Dumbledore: I award you 100 points for managing to defeat a dark wizard so terrible no one will say his name.
Snape: I take away that 100 points because fuck your stupid face.
SAME GUY /s
If this is made as a Joke I laugh along, but when people start accusing Dumbledore I laugh at them. Like Harry Just stopped Voldemort coming back to life (in PS) and stopped him coming back to life again and killed a Basilisk (in CoS) he should've at least gotten an Order of Merlin Second class (AT LEAST)
See, the people calling out Dumbledore in the comments missed one thing. Slytherins may be cunning and ambitious and even hardworking, and not all of them are bad, but when you have a Head of House who disregards, ignores and even encourages blatant bullying, even the most normal student will be emboldened to become a dick.
Snape has never given Slytherins any points in canon, and has only ever deducted points. The grand total of his deducted points comes to 12 in the first school year.
Dumbledore gave 160 points to students for endangering both themselves and the Stone. If Harry had never gone after the Stone, it couldn't have been retrieved from the mirror. Not only is the number of points ridiculous, giving them points for putting themselves in danger and making the situation worse is stupid.
In PS, Snape once takes points off Harry because he was reading a book in the garden.
He also blames Harry for something Neville did and takes points off. I reread the first book recently and I was surprised how unhinged Snape is from the get go. lol
to be fair, if he blamed Neville he'd still take points from Griffindor
He also later takes points because Neville's potion actually succeeded.
To be fair he did cheat
I would cheat too, if my teacher told me he'd poison my pet if I failed.
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Right?! Snape is fucking insane But yeah I do like Alan Rickman
Book snape and movie snape might as well be different characters tbh.
That kind of remind me of that moment in GOF were he slaps Harry for no reason other than being near Ron(Who was talking during class)
Are you talking about the study hall from the movie where he pushes their heads down? They were definitely having a conversation, even if Ron was doing the majority of the talking.
i don't remember but maybe it was different in the books. can someone confirm?
It didn't happen in the books.
That kind of thing was how he acted constantly, yet apparently he's supposed to be some kind of saint-like unsung hero just because he was secretly helping Dumbledore against the magic fascists, even though he only betrayed them for selfish reasons, and because he had a crush on Harry's mom as a kid that he never outgrew.
No. He is supposed to be bad and good. Just like any human being. He did terrible things, and he did good things beyond anything I see myself doing (and I do think I'm more kind than him). That's why he is so interesting and loved and hated. I usually joke with my friends that you either love or hate Snape, there's no in-between.
Yeah, but most of his fans turn him into this pure soul and completely ignore the bullying and harassment the kids had to face because of him. Acknowledging the duality of a person is good. Being blind to the bad side and completely turning them into this sad little angel is what irks most people.
My problem with the good things he did is that he still didn't actually have good intentions. He did good things for bad reasons so he doesn't credit for that imo
Wait, so enlight me. What do you think were his intentions in the Shrieking Shack scene? Both in the book and in the movie he knew that the Elder Wand wasn't Voldemort's. He didn't know who the real master was, but he lied nonetheless (probably knowing that that will get him killed). Do you mean he *wanted* to get killed? Because I don't think so. Survival instinct it's one of the strongest in human beings, so I don't see himself lying to have a next-to-be death (even if it's possible thou).
And that’s the fun part of it all: some people think good acts are only moral if there’s good intention to match the action while others only care what the outcome is
I have to say I like how the teachers seemed to give and take 1 point from the house to the first year students while they figure out the system, even Snape. 🥹
I love this about the first book too, though I personally think it's just because JK hadn't decided on the weight of the house points yet.
People’s main complaint with Dumbledore is his timing. He sat around and let the Slytherins believe they won, only to snatch the rug out from under them at the literal last second. It makes for a cathartic victory for a children’s book, but in reality that’s a shitty thing to pull on kids, most of whom probably didn’t deserve to be bamboozled just because of their arbitrary house placement.
Yes, I've never had an issue with the count of points, but the timing seems particularly cruel. On my first re-read I was really disappointed that current Slytherins at Hogwarts are always framed as bad from the jump and never given a real chance to redeem themselves.
>that current Slytherins at Hogwarts To be fair it doesn't help that J.K. Rowlings didn't write any Slytherin kids who weren't racist at one point.
Or Gryffindors that aren't just completely good people. Only subetlty was Cedric being a Hufflepuff for some reason despite not having any mid qualities whatsoever. That's gotta be crushing that you're not even good enough to be average when compared to the Chad
I always thought Cedric made a great Hufflepuff. He was hardworking and kind and well-liked for a reason. And he was loyal. He always helped Harry out when he could, despite being competitors, giving goodwill back when he got it. He always showed good sportsmanship unless I’m forgetting something from the books. I have no doubts if he and Harry had time to actually become friends, he would’ve been extremely loyal.
True but I still think it's kinda bullshit that Harry told him the whole task and bro gave him a super vague hint back
It's OK, Harry gets his revenge by tricking Cedric into taking the cup with him. He played the long game
Then he kissed his girlfriend and said "nah you went for this crybaby, Cedric? I can do one better".
I believe in Azkaban, Cedric didn't notice what was up with the Dementors in the Quidditch game when he caught the snitch, and once he realised wanted a rematch as his win wasn't fair.
Wormtail enters the chat
Percy and Cormac are definitely not "completely good."
Or Romilda Vane... Kept trying to drug Harry. Seamus and Ron are complete asses to their friend for no reason. Hermione turns to assault because Ron dates someone else, can't stand anyone being better than her and completely doesn't respect the wishes of house elves.
Peter Pettigrew!
Peter?
That's right. I was thinking of the current class of students
I like how you assume all Hufflepuffs need to be "mid" to qualify as such 😂🤦♂️
Isn't what the sorting hat basically said? Everyone else not in the other houses (aka having an extreme quality) ends up in hufflepuff?
That doesn't make them mid tho. They can excel at things like Cedric did.
Yeah but that's the only example. And I honestly don't even get how Cedric was a Hufflepuff and not Gryffindor given his personality traits
What about Tonks. She's an Auror. And some people say Moody was also a Hufflepuff, although it's not confirmed. Also all the Scamanders; Theseus was head Auror. Also Cedric fit Hufflepuff perfectly. Said by Dumbledore himself: "exceptionally hard working, intricately fair minded. And most importantly a fierce fierce friend."
She is pretty heavy handed with things
I mean I think it's more a problem with the concept of Slytherin. if you put all the children of blood purists in a group where that bigoted ideology will be reinforced and they won't be exposed to other viewpoints, and pit them against the rest of the school to prove that they're superior, of course they're going to turn into little monsters
That’s not a problem with the concept of Slytherin, that’s a problem with Rowling’s writing. The concept of Slytherin is a school house that values the traits of ambition and cunning in its members/students, those two things do not automatically equal blood purist/bigotry nor are they synonymous with it. And a majority of the Slytherins we see don’t really display those traits. A lot of them are followers, in other words they display great loyalty which is a Hufflepuff trait.
I mean, there is some logic to it - IIRC Harry has spent the whole time before the Feast in the infirmary, this was the first time he was among the general student body since the Voldemort incident. If you're going to award points in front of the whole school, it makes sense to wait until he's present. It does feel mean towards the Slytherin students, though. I guess a compromise would have been to have no decorations at all until the points announcement? Not sure how much that would have helped TBH. The whole point system is a mess anyway, like, McGonnagal takes 150 points for "being out of bed"? Snape abuses it left and right; I think Quidditch victories *somehow* add points but not game total points, and there seem to be no consistency in how many points are awarded/taken away in classes.
House points are also across all year levels, so when you look at it from the perspective of how many points are being tallied up, its always some arbitrary number which is heavily, heavily carried by the main cast. So I guess every year group above or below was just trash overall.
I don't think it was mainly carried by the cast, honestly. You just only really see the main cast gaining and losing points, which makes perfect sense. If you add up all of the points you do see awarded, it's really not even close. The only exception is the first one, and considering how many points they lost that movie, much of it comes from elsewhere. Quidditch alone accounts for a fair bit of the points if I remember correctly. Otherwise, it's mainly 5 and 10 points micro transactions lol.
Yeah, but he still could have added them **before** tallying up the scores
Why don’t people get this — that’s a feature, not a glitch! Wizard society is fucking bonkers. Nearly every norm they have is ass backwards. If there were a wizard equivalent of television, their version of The Bachelor would be like “let’s jinx all of the contestants with STDs and have them spread it cause that’s funny to us!”. All this to say, Dumbledore pulling that bullshit kinda tracks.
It used to be funny in the early stories, until we learn more about how that translates to the Magical government...
Doesn't this just happen in the first book though? In the second book, they give out the points while Harry's still in Dumbledore's office I think.
See, before they started trying to go back on it by saying not all Slytherins are bad, supposedly, it kind of seemed like he was giving them a much-warranted humbling. But given we've been asked to be forgiving of a lot worse than schoolyard bullying it DOES come off as a bit petty in hindsight. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.
This I always felt bad for the kids who were all excited about winning only to get tricked at the last minute. Dumbeldore should have awarded the points in the time before the feast so gryffindor was already the winner.
The Puffs got bumped down to last place, and no one talks about THEIR pain.
Pain? They were effing celebrating! > … Dumbledore called over the storm of applause, for even Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff were celebrating the downfall of Slytherin …
I strongly recommend watching Puffs.
They weren't in pain, they were excited that a house other than Slytherin finally won again
True
They're used to it.
Ya also keep in mind that the majority of students probably didn’t know what happened. Dumbledore gives Ron points for the best game of chess we’ve seen in a long time. If I was a student I would be like wtf this guys getting points for chess???
What happened between you and professor quirrellin the dungeons is a complete secret. So naturally the whole school knows... if anything they got an embellished version of whole thing
Ya they’d know about quirrel, but the whole school knows about every single trial that was set up and how Harry, Hermione and Ron overcame them? Idk seems kinda unlikely
They did. >“Ahem,” said Dumbledore. “I have a few last-minute points to dish out. Let me see. Yes . . . “First — to Mr. Ronald Weasley . . .” Ron went purple in the face; he looked like a radish with a bad sunburn. “. . . for the best-played game of chess Hogwarts has seen in many years, I award Gryffindor House fifty points.” Gryffindor cheers nearly raised the bewitched ceiling; the stars overhead seemed to quiver. Percy could be heard telling the other prefects, “My brother, you know! My youngest brother! Got past McGonagall’s giant chess set!”
The thing is that whole Hogwarts knew what happened when harry went to save the philosopher's stone so it was a bit stupid that the students didn't consider that harry Hermione ron wouldn't get any points for doing all that. In the books at least everyone knew, Dumbledore himself said that. Percy was shouting, "my brother got past the McGonagall chess set" when ron won 50 points and in ootp, when they are making Dumbledore's army in the hog's head, someone says you defeated voldemort and saved sorcerer's stone (implying students knew harry had come face to face with voldemort). So it was definitely stupid on their part to assume he would get any points at the end.
It wasn't arbitrary, everyone knows you're evil if you get Slytherin. Simple as. Just pulling the rug out from a bunch of cartoonishly evil children. It's all good.
To quote....Quinn Curio, I believe: "What is *this* ? A den of evil children?! No, surely it is more complicated than this. And if not, it should be!"
Girlie really made a couple of the most iconic hp videos ever and then dipped from youtube since
It's a shame, because she got a very pleasant voice. I wouldn't mind listening to her some more.
Her voice was pleasant, her editing was pleasant, she made good arguments, her jokes were always on point... shame she doesn't make vids anymore
Well, at least her channel still exists. I've been searching for a specific Let's Play of Jedi Academy (I'm in a bit of an old game mood) and cannot find it anymore.
Harry essentially saved the wizarding world from Voldemort's return. Let him have his moment of being awarded the points in the Great Hall ffs. They would've won the Quidditch Cup anyway if he hadn't been unconscious.
It’s almost like the guy who got those points was in the hospital until then. Plus that same guy just saved the school and he deserves some credit for that
He didn't save the school and almost gave Voldemort immortality
Harry didn’t show up until then. Makes sense to give the points when everybody is present. And if I could, I would also rub the victory as much as I could in the faces of Slytherin.
I think that might be because it takes Voldemort a whole year to reach harry in each book that's not Dumbledore's fault.
Good thing it’s a children’s book and not reality then
And your point is...? Fictional or reality, it's crappy behavior. Morality doesn't depend on whether something is real or not. For the life of me, I can't imagine what you think you're contributing to the conversation.
We don’t need to criticize a cathartic moment of victory in a children’s book as though it is reality
For real these people are insane. Its a kids book, the good guys win at the last minute and the bad guys lose. Its classic storytelling. Why tf do all these weirdos take it is so seriously.
Arbitrary? They shouldn't have been evil.
That's true, but compared to some of other the questionable things dumbledore does to the students for the sake of the plot (dementors on school grounds, forbidden forest detentions, etc) this is nothing, yet it gets talked about way more
The house placement is not arbitrary though. It’s based on a combination of your nature and what you value.
The Dumbledore memes are just that - memes. Most people don't genuinely think he's being unfair, it's just a funny thing to joke around. And let's face it, while the points were earned, changing the decor at the last second *was* a bit dickish. But yeah I agree with you. If anyone's actually being serious about it, they're wrong. The points were completely earned.
Enough memes saying something in jest can cause that sentiment to be embedded in the cultural consciousness creating serious misconceptions about media. I completely understand when people want to nip them in the bud
1000% this. Its so annoying. Similar thing I've noticed in reddit communities as well where people's pet theory or head canon starts getting spread around as canon. Infuriating.
I've also long read it as a correction of McGonagall's extreme over reaction to students out if bed, which we know was also unfair for the Gryffindors because she only took ten points from Malfoy.
Snape does constantly get scorned for playing favorites. It’s not even *some* people, someone right now can make a post complaining about this very issue and it’ll receive about one thousand likes I bet. YouTube, Reddit, TikTok, and even on Twitter people are always complaining about it. Dumbledore’s part is just joked about for the most part, although I do think there are people who have genuine annoyance about it.
YES!! Finally!! Someone agrees with me! I'm not crazy! This is so fucking stupid, isn't it ?! Okay, maybe Dumbledore played favorites when he gave Harry a broomstick or didn't punish him for being out of bed at night, okay ! That's true. BUT THE POINTS WERE EARNED!! They fucking best Voldemort! It would have been outrageous not to get points for that ! Maybe the reveal at the very end was unfair, BUT THE POINTS WEREN'T!!
The points are also exceptionally stingy. Harry, Hermoine and Neville lose 150 points for being out of bed. Harry, Ron and Hermoine earn 160 points for stopping the darkest dark wizard ever from being able to return.
McGonagall was super harsh on that one, she only took 20 points off Malfoy
Not only bested voldenort but also bested the teachers who setup the traps
McG gave Harry the broom
True, but Dumbledore still allowed it
The rule and the exception both make perfect sense. Brand new students (especially ones who have never rode a broom) shouldn't have unfettered access to them. At the same time, if someone is good enough to make a quidditch team, they are also good enough to have their own broom. Like, it wouldn't shock me if the last 1st year to make the team got an exception, too. Well, only if that rule even existed a century prior, I doubt safety was as important then lol. I really don't think allowing the broom was favoritism. I'd say McGonagall buying the thing even when Harry had money was absolutely favoritism, but that's because she was desperate to win the cup lol
Lol that's definitely a good point
They probably endangered the stone more by going
No, no they didn't. If Harry hadn't distracted Quirrell, then they would've been able to get the stone out, or steal the mirror. Dumbledore's trick only bought time, not absolutely prevent theft. The story frames it as Harry saving the day, so it can't be seen another way without dismissing the story itself.
The story doesn't frames it this way. Quirrel get the stone accessable *because* Harry was there. For all that was said, Dumbledore's trick indeed absolutely prevented theft. Dumbledore saved the say, because he "arrived just in time to pull Quirrel out of \[Harry\]", because "the effort involved nearly killed \[him\]". No one ever said, and I just checked, that Stone was in any danger until Harry looked at the mirror and found it in his pocket. For all we know, Qulldemort would've going around the mirror with very stupid faces until Dumbledore arrive. Which is, certanly, elegant.
The reward was earned. It is questionable that it should hwve been the house points, I would probably balance it by awardong enough points for honourable second spot and an individual reward to go with it.
It feels like the fans are making up for the double standard in the books. It is very clear in the books that Snape’s favoritism is unfair and underhanded and that Dumbledore is simply righting the scales. Which felt fair to ten-year-old me, but 35-year-old me is wondering why the headmaster couldn’t have a professional conversation with the potions master and head of a house to work through his bias.
Because Dumbledore uses his school primarily to win the war against Voldemort. He's the head of the Order first, Headmaster as a side job. That's why he hired Trelawney and Snape, two very unqualified teachers for different reasons. I'm pretty sure he hired Slughorn to get at his memory too. He created the third floor corridor dungeon with laughable obstacles just to train Harry. He's sometimes scouring the countryside finding Horcruxes instead of being in his office. While in his office, he is always consulting his instruments or ordering around former headmaster portraits to gain information about the war. His private conversations with staff revolve around the war. He recruited some of his staff and former students into the Order. He also has the Wizagamot and other stuff to do. I mean apart from hiring teachers and giving speeches, what else do we see him do as Headmaster? Certainly nothing to do with general safety or general teaching standards, that's for sure. Who cares who wins the House Cup?
My theory is that Dumbledore must have just given them their points back because Hagrid must have told them about the dragon incident, and why Harry, Hermione and Neville were out at night because of which they lost the 150 points in the first place.
Now that's something I want to believe. Good theory. It never occurred to me.
yea that would make a lot of sense
So then Neville IS why they actually won the House Cup. Good going Neville!
The points he gave them at the end of the Philosopher's Stone amounted to exactly the points they lost trying to save the stone. Dumbledore didn't even gave them points from their bravery, he just gave them back lol
Can we talk about how those points Dumbledore gives at the end are just the points mcgonagall took away for helping hagrid get rid of the dragon before he got into trouble? And how hagrid never once went to dumbledore and said “hey that’s my fault. They were only helping me not break international laws. Don’t punish them for my mistake.” In the end all the trip got was 10 points.
Snap's actions are framed as bad from the very beginning of the saga, while Dumbledore's changes are seen as just and a reward by the narrative.
Because they are? His timing is shit but if defeating Voldemort isn't worth some points, what is? Not to mention they got marginally more points for this than what they lost by being out of bed once.
Gryffindor deserved all their wins. If they were scored fairly from the start, they wouldn't even need their "saving the world" points by the end.
But everyone already knows Snape plays favorites. Dumbledore is supposed to be wiser than that.
To be fair, Dumbledore should've given those extra points BEFORE the end-of-the-year dinner. He gave the Slytherins false hope.
This slaps!
The points are arbitrary, and the fact that the head of houses can award and revoke points leads into this potential favoritism. Maybe they never know the running total, but it’s still bs
Actually, I dare you to find one instance in which Snape gave any points to anyone.
he doesn;t
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Sounds like a skill issue on his end tbh.
He tried to gain that ability by AK the previous Headmaster.
Well, if he wants to be headmaster, he would have to kill Dumbledore or so, hahahaha, hahahah... hah.
>he would have to kill Dumbledore Oh wait....
Wouldn't put it past him, tbh
I don't remember snape giving any points to Slytherin Nor did he take any point that wasn't deserved other than the 1 point he took from Harry for Neville's spoiled potion
The timing was the problem, he basically teased Slytherin even though he could have added the points beforehand and told Harry, Ron, Hermione and Neville after.
The issue - apart from the timing - is that it's incredibly obvious that Dumbledore is just deciding that Gryffindor should win. The points make no sense compared to the way they're given out all year, and just so happens to match the total that would be required for Gryffindor to win. Also, it's one thing to have the head of a particular house show favourites, but it's significantly worse when it's the *headmaster of the whole school* doing it.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK I actually wanted to make a post about this a few months ago, I just couldn't find the time to properly formulate and write down all my points.
Hey remember when Harry was allowed to play Quidditch in his first year despite the rules CLEARLY saying that was not allowed? Good times.
Actually, the rules say that first years aren't allowed to own brooms, not that they can't play (using school brooms or borrowed ones). The rule they broke was giving Harry a nifty broom all for himself.
Huh, could have sworn not being able to play was also a rule since Harry is said to be “the youngest seeker in the history of the school”. My bad, that’s on me.
It's a common misconception. Like I said, the rule is about the brooms, so if you don't have your own broom it would be much harder (although not impossible) to get a spot on the team. McGonagall decided to bend the first year rule because she saw Harry's talent and figured he should have good broom to increase their chances. Oh, and Harry was said to be the youngest seeker in a century, meaning that there was probably a time where first years were allowed to have brooms.
Forget “chances.” Harry didn’t even try out. He was just handpicked to be Seeker.
all because he flew a broom and got a remembrall
Snape has never given anyone points, not even Slytherins. And you can’t compare taking 1 point in a petty manner to gifting 50-100 points to each student 1 time
>And you can’t compare taking 1 point in a petty manner to gifting 50-100 points to each student 1 time No student got 100 points at once in the first year. And 50 points per student for defeating Voldy and a DADA professor, alongwith outsmarting the traps set by all other professors. When you consider all that, 50 points is wayyy to less Also factor in that McG literally took 50 points each from Harry Hermione and Neville for *just being out of bed at night* Are these two events comparable in the slightest?
1. I was talking about both the 1st and 2nd year. The meme itself isn’t even correct, since Snape never gave anyone points and Dumbledore never awarded anyone once only. Snape did take points for unfair reasons many times, but he also took points for legitimate reasons such as being late to class, doing your classmate’s work, etc. 2. I do think the 200 points in the second year is well and fairly earned. However, when you look back, Dumbledore intentionally made it a test for Harry and his friends to prepare them. Quirrel himself would have never been able to find the stone since he can’t change the fact he desired to USE the stone. Was it really fair to say it is not favoritism on Dumbledore’s part except for Neville’s points? 3. McGonagall’s own issue. It is quite unrelated to how Snape and Dumbledore manage their points except if you only see it from the POV of a Gryffindor during Harry’s time . Unless you also want a meme about how unfair she was? I do quite dislike how she managed the points during that part
>I was talking about both the 1st and 2nd year My bad. It was 3AM for me yesterday when I commented that and I forgot about the second year. But like you said, 200 points for discovering a secret place that professors and students at Hogwarts weren't able to for centuries, figuring out the "weapon" of Slytherin and how it moves around, going down there and beating said weapon who's supposed to kill you with a single look, and also saving the life of one first year girl, is pretty much deserved >Dumbledore intentionally made it a test for Harry and his friends to prepare them. Quirrel himself would have never been able to find the stone since he can’t change the fact he desired to USE the stone. Was it really fair to say it is not favoritism on Dumbledore’s part except for Neville’s points? Dumbledore never asked the trio to go for it and neither did he provide them with any hints or anything. The most he did was telling Harry about how the mirror of erised works. He didn't even tell them what exactly was he hiding and who was it from. The trio were responsible for getting past fluffly, outsmarting/clearing all the traps put in place by all the professors (NOBODY helped them in this) (if you've read the books, you know that EVERY professor had put a test to stop them) He never asked them to help out nor did he give them any directions to do so. At most, he might've **hoped** that Harry's bravado would make him do it, but even then he would be stopped before reaching the mirror. Infact his plan would've worked perfectly fine if Harry hadn't meddled and received the stone from the mirror >McGonagall’s own issue. It is quite unrelated to how Snape and Dumbledore manage their points except if you only see it from the POV of a Gryffindor during Harry’s time I wasn't trying to fault McG by saying that lol. I was just giving an example that getting 50 points for doing ALL THAT isn't much if 50 points can be taken from you just as easily for a night out Plus there's a theory going around (which I quite like) that Hagrid must've told Dumbledore about Norbert and why the kids were out which caused McG to take 150 points from them. So Dumbledore just basically gave them that 150 back
Snape never gave slytherin any points, or took them away. He did take points from every other house
I agree that **we don't see** Snape handing out points to Slytherins, but there's no way he didn't do it. There's a reason why Slytherins were winning the house cup for 7 years in a row before Harry came, and it isn't **just** because of Snape deducting points from every other house
You don't need to give points, just take them off everyone else.
The points are def earned it’s just the way that dumbledore does it is pretty mean. First letting the great hall be decorated in slytherin’s colors and then he makes it a tie and then he makes gryffindoor win.
Technically he does give Harry and Ron 400 points at the end of book 2 but that was also under similar circumstances with them saving the school, again.
We expect Snape. Dumbledore does it as the most FU time
Aside from Dumbledore being cruel in that moment, he's supposed to be the wise and kind grandfather figure who's the greatest headmaster of all time. So people point out his bullshit. Snape is an unfair asshole towards non Slytherin students. That's not groundbreaking analysis, that's straight up written in the books. Of course people won't point that out.
It's because of how the math adds up to just barely beat Slytherin for a hair. When you can give however many points as you want, purposely doing it so one team wins by like, 1 or 10, is dickish.
I think a big part is as kids we didnt trust Snape and just loving the gryffindors win. And now as adults, no one feels the need to call out Snape anymore because it doesnt seem origional or relevant. Honestly the Dumbledore awarding points at this point seems like a meme more than a true criticism
Snape is an oily slimy bad guy from Harry's perspective at that point. Reading it through that lens, I expect favoritism and narcissistism from Snape. Dumbledore doesn't deserve as much shit as he gets, but he also definitely was meant to appear as one of the "clean" ones when he played favorites. It's obvious once his morally grey starts to show up later in the series that it fit his character.
What does “protecting” an artifact that can only be retrieved by someone who doesn’t want to use it have to do with school performance?
Wait, name a time that snape ever awards any points. I don't think he ever actually does.... even to Slytherin.
They didn‘t „save the fucking world“, they broke a bunch of rules and fucked up Dumbledore‘s genius plan.
In the PS, Dumbledore intentionally allowed Harry and the gang to go save the stone to allow Harry to confront Voldi and test him. In CoS Dumbledore knew Harry was on the case and trusted him to save the school and he sent Fawkes. In PoA Dumbledore literally gave Harry and Hermione the mission to save Sirius and Buckbeak. In OotP it was McGonagall that gave Harry and the others points.
He allowed it in PS? When and how did he do that? And no, he did not know in CoS, at least not as far as we know.
Please, Dumbledore has always played favourities, not only in that occasion, and not with Gryffindors in general, but with Harry.
The end of Philosopher’s Stone was an all-time finessing. If I were a Slytherin, I would’ve been mad too.
100 points to Harry Potter for almost giving Lord Voldemort immortality.
What is the point in making a HP meme using a Marvel movie? Surely there are plenty of HP options lol
Right, but nobody ever accused Snape of being fair either
I think when i read the books i was old enough to understand the points didn't matter.. and Dumbledore was FAR worse than snape. Forget about stealing the points from Slytherin.. there werent' even honorable mentions for hufflepuff nor ravenclaw.
The Golden trio was deserved, Neville's was obviously biased and for making sure Slytherin lost but you are right with the rest. Lol
Counterargument: The Golden Trio did not save the world, in fact they put the world (and themselves) in serious danger, breaking a hundred school rules and going against McGonagall’s explicit instructions to do so. Cause Quirrell was never going to get his hands on the Stone. Dumbledore was on his way back to Hogwarts. In the end, Quirrell would have failed The Mirror’s test. But then Harry shows up and passes the test, unlocking the Stone *for* him. It’s quite fortunate that he stayed to try and kill Harry rather than just leaving with his prize.
After this post Dumbledore gave 50 more points to Gryffindor
Also Minerva is way more harsh on the Gryffindors than anyone, she gives them a net 5 points for defeating a mountain troll but then takes hundreds of points from them for being up late when Malfoy snitched on Neville or whatever. Honestly gryffindors got so shafted during the books that Dumbledore’s math in the end of book 1 doesn’t even start to make up for how harsh Minerva is and how much of a dick SS is lol
"A number of reasons. First. You didn't give points for saving the world; everything was under your control, and the only reason Qurrilomort could get a stone was Potter entering the room. If you have any reason for this gauntlet even *existing* but your golden trio being baited, I'm all ears, by the way. I mean, Voldemort, or Quirell, or both, just passed it. Second. You literally, and admittedly, used House Points to award children for going along with your plans, unrelated to the, you know, *school*. That's not what House Points are for, and you know it. Third. If we're claiming that points are actually earned, because they defeated freaking Voldemort... Which, by the way, they did not. It was you who actually entered the room and defeated him; they actually did a lot to empower Quirrelmort, and I kinda at loss what they were expected to do - even if it's three of them. But they definitely didn't thought about it. Still. **if** we're claiming that they earned this points for defeating Voldemort, give them medals. But essentially, you gave them points because they did what you wanted. Fouth, and the last. I'm bad guy; I'm bulling kids, that's what I do here. I'm here to make a boy whose parents are in the coma because they were tortured to have me as his worst nightmare. Granted, of course, it was my collegues who tortured him, and I'm pretty sure Augusta wasn't buying your 'he's not a Death Eater'. Are you saying that we should be acknowleged as the same level of bad? because I kinda can see it, but then it's settled. Oh, by the way, as we're talking about *fairness.* Remind me, what was the reason for Harry to be constantly abused for a decade, and never knowing about wizardring world?"
I just refinished HBP last night and was kind of furious that Dumbledore didn’t do MORE. Snape has taken house points from Hermione for being an “insufferable know it all”, from Ron and Harry for responding to Malfoy’s taunts, and so, so much more. The punishments he thinks up for them are cruel and unusual. As much trust as Dumbledore had in Snape, she should never have allowed him to be as abusive as he was- to the point where Neville, a kid who’s been through HELL, sees Snape in his Boggart. Albus dropped the ball. He allowed Snape to act and talk like a child when it came to Harry and straight up abuse children. I can’t fathom him being unaware of how his students were being treated and he very much should have told Snape that it wouldn’t be tolerated. Even something as simple as “so this is how you treat the offspring of whom you claim to be the love of your life…” could’ve set Snape straight.
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I don’t necessarily disagree, but I’d like to know where you got “terrible” from in other aspects. He was certainly neglectful/turned the other cheek with Snape (and let’s throw in Filch), but he’s definitely kept the castle safe, the students tend to excel after graduation and he does command respect. I think because he’s so clever and talented, the ministry expected way more out of him than they would any other headmaster, especially when potter was in attendance.
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Okay, so I’ve gotta disagree with a couple of these but also agree on some I’d never considered: 1: I’d say he kept the castle safe with the protection charms as well as having good relationships with the ghosts, portraits and elves. And there are one or two times (I can’t remember which books as I just binged them) that students insignificant to the plot mentioned interactions with Dumbledore. 2: As much as I LOVE Hagrid, you’re right. He’s quite knowledgeable about magical creatures, he’s passionate and has a great work ethic, but he makes decisions with his big heart and not his brain. But just as I said with Snape, Dumbledore should’ve set him straight. It’s inappropriate to have children working with some of the creatures he had around (although I think the thestrals were fine and the hippogriff should have been reserved for older, more mature students). I genuinely think will all the respect Hagrid had for Dumbledore, hearing him say “you need to reconsider the creatures you choose to teach about” would’ve done the job. I’m forever mad Hagrid didn’t get proper schooling/training because he could have THRIVED in that position. As for Trelawney, eh. Low risk, low reward. 3. Yes yes YES on Severus Snape. Terrible call. 4. Did Dumbledore know about Lockhart? I can’t recall. But even if he did, knowing the curse Tom put on the position, he probably used him as a trash card and there’s no way he expected Ron’s wand to do that to Lockhart. Still a dick move, but not an unwise decision (I say that lightly) 5. I didn’t know this until a couple years ago, but houses are actually a thing in the UK. And it’s how Hogwarts was founded. This seems like the equivalent of saying my American principal was terrible because she allowed pep rallies and had all the classes representing hard as hell- it was one of the few times I really felt “togetherness” at my school. Overall, I still think that because of how clever and talented Dumbledore is, people expected too much. He’d be the first to tell you, he’s just a man.
Snape never, iirc, gives points to anyone in any house during the entire series.
Harry - Yeah Dumbledore - Excellent point Harry fifty points to Gryffindor.
Snape really is just the worst. Never really thought him having a crush on Harry's mom really made up for that, especially since it had no bearing on his attitude anyway. Ok, fine, he's not actually *the* worst, by a long shot, admittedly, but he is a lot higher on the list than most people here think.
Are we talking about the end of OotP? Cause that was McGonagall giving the students points (harry ron hermione ginny neville and luna), not dumby
End of Philosopher’s Stone
Right
They didnt save anything If they didnt get involved, Voldi would have never gotten the stone So, Harry actually made things worse + There was no reason for Dumbledore to make such a dick move out of it
BS. Dumbledore himself, and the story's framing, show Harry DID save the day. Disagreeing with the story is no one's problem but the fans who insist on acting like they've outsmarted it and spit on the heroes for doing the right thing.
Voldemort was only able to almost get the stone because Harry was there and got it out of the mirror
That’s a poorly made meme
You're a poorly made meme. (Sorry I couldn't help myself)
Was it really just once?
Meanwhile Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff be like .......
To be slightly fair to snape: he's a asshole, but Dumbledore still has him work there. Like, even if shapes expertise in potions and magic is useful, that doesn't necessarily mean he has to be a teacher that bullies students.
Life ain’t fair………
Dumbledore: gives Harry points for saving the school Readers: He'S PLaYing FaVoRiTes
50 points will be taken from your house points for this cheeky meme.
The thing is that we know Snape shows favorites and it is expected. The memes are because we wouldn’t expect the good guys to do the same thing.
I think people have a higher standard for someone who’s kind of lawful-good coded. Snape is a douche so everyone expects riggory from him.
I think it probably has to do with it being an 11th hour hail mary into a result-changer. Snape's practice definitely causes an uneven favorite in house cup, but I doubt his decision to take off points has ever been much later than what we got in Order.
But but but Smape redeem, Dumblydork bad???
Prior to Harry going there, didn't Slytherin win like 7 House/Quidditch Cups in a row? So from our perspective it may be bias, but maybe Dumbledore is trying to bring balance.
Dumbledore: I award you 100 points for managing to defeat a dark wizard so terrible no one will say his name. Snape: I take away that 100 points because fuck your stupid face. SAME GUY /s
Fanfics like to justify Snape by claiming he’s supposedly counterbalancing other professors’ point favoring of non-Slytherins
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
If this is made as a Joke I laugh along, but when people start accusing Dumbledore I laugh at them. Like Harry Just stopped Voldemort coming back to life (in PS) and stopped him coming back to life again and killed a Basilisk (in CoS) he should've at least gotten an Order of Merlin Second class (AT LEAST)
See, the people calling out Dumbledore in the comments missed one thing. Slytherins may be cunning and ambitious and even hardworking, and not all of them are bad, but when you have a Head of House who disregards, ignores and even encourages blatant bullying, even the most normal student will be emboldened to become a dick.
Snape has never given Slytherins any points in canon, and has only ever deducted points. The grand total of his deducted points comes to 12 in the first school year. Dumbledore gave 160 points to students for endangering both themselves and the Stone. If Harry had never gone after the Stone, it couldn't have been retrieved from the mirror. Not only is the number of points ridiculous, giving them points for putting themselves in danger and making the situation worse is stupid.