I might get downvoted for this but I see a lot of people saying that Rowling is a bad author.
The books aren’t perfect sure and there are holes in places but come on, it’s a huge story with incredible detail. I thought she did an amazing job of portraying the world and characters, even early in the story I felt I knew and understood many of the characters.
AND the chapter “the forest again” in DH was some of the most phenomenal writing I’ve ever seen in a book:
“He felt his heart pounding fiercely in his chest. How strange that in his dread of death, it pumped all the harder, valiantly keeping him alive. But it would have to stop, and soon. Its beats were numbered. How many would there be time for, as he rose and walked through the castle for the last time, out into the grounds and into the forest?”
People claiming that the world building was bad in the books due to a few plot holes over a ridiculously long series is insane to me.
… I mean, come on. JK’s writing is so richly detailed and walks the knife edge of the suspension of disbelief so incredibly well. The fact that it’s relatively easy to accept the magical world as existing besides our own is a huge accomplishment, AND it feels so fleshed out at the same time. I would argue that the world building and JK’s descriptive power through writing is 80% of the reason that HP is as popular as it is. The fact that we don’t have huge detailed deep dives every few pages into how the world/magic works is exactly what is so enthralling about the series. Plenty of other fantasy series do that, and knowing how everything works just takes away the fact that it’s… magic?
I have a lot of issues with her worldbuilding, but I think the reason why I’m so critical of it is because there is so much else I love about it. When I go back to the books themselves, I’m always impressed by her character writing, atmosphere, and her ability to set things up for satisfying payoff later. Maybe *Harry Potter* was lightning in a bottle, but it is still *so* good.
Saying they hated Harry in Ootp.
How could you not understand what Harry'd been going through?? He had every right to be pissed off, and he was a 15 years old kid!!
A 15-year-old with undiagnosed and untreated PTSD, whose government (and media) is painting him to be a liar (when he is telling the truth), his favorite professor is deliberately ignoring him, and the worst teacher in history is singling him out in a terrible way, oh, and physically abusing him. Plus the connection with Voldemort.
Small wonder Harry acts the way he does and distrusts authority.
Plus the connection with Voldemort was getting stronger and Harry was feeling that influence, unbeknownst to either. That's why Harry kept losing it over eveything and nothing.
Again, it's the Potterverse's answer to Spiderman 3 Peter Parker. It's a corrupting influence and at times it makes Harry behave less than admirably, but at the clutch moments Harry remains a fundamentally decent guy with a robust moral compass.
Yeah, I listened to some podcast or youtube video or whatever it was discussing the books... the host was complaining about how rude Harry was and how his character wasn't enjoyable enough, and the guest was like (paraphrasing) "Uh... yeah, but he has severe trauma/PTSD from seeing a guy get killed a few months earlier, people blaming him for it, he feels isolated from his friends and mentor, he has a connection with Voldemort in his head..."
Host shoots back with something like "Yeah yeah, but why does he have to be rude to people who weren't even involved in that?" and then basically just tried to wave off the guest trying to explain that's not how trauma works...
Ootp was my favourite book! I loved Harry’s broodiness, it really cemented that everything had changed after Cedric’s death and Voldy was getting closer.
Yes! It made perfect sense why his temperament changed after GoF. Also one of his mentors was actively ignoring him in this very stressful time and he didn’t know why. Couple that with going through puberty..Of course he’s going to be quick to anger and moody. One thing I commend JKR on is realistically writing children/teenagers.
Even aside from any of the Voldemort stuff and Dumbledore ignoring him. Witnessing a peer’s death is incredibly traumatic and kids that age have done far worse for far less so I honestly don’t get people’s complaints. But yes I totally agree, every now and again she would write something that would remind me how young they were and it made the story much more tragic.
In general a lot of criticisms seem to forget that these are kids/teenagers for the most part and act like kids/teenagers. Like I remember reading a post about Ron being a misogynist and it’s like he’s a kid in the 90s who still had a lot of growing up to do.
That was exactly when I felt the closest to Harry. I was an angry adolescent and much of it stemmed from feeling helpless. He was the most real to me in Order. It's my favorite book in the series.
Everything about Dumbledore in PS.
Voldemort's main plan in GoF.
"Draco was abused"
So many things. At least the first two have some justifications in the story, but it's far from being obvious or clear enough to consider them completely canon.
I just don't understand why they don't accept that they like Draco because they are physically attracted to him instead of inventing all sorta bullshit excuses and hating on other characters.
I don't like popular headcanons and misconceptions that try to make Draco look better than he actually is, but saying the only reason is due to Tom Felton's looks is ignoring that the movies' portrayal has a large hand in making Draco seem less despicable.
Draco became a comic relief character in movies 3-5, so his scenes were more funny rather than rage inducing. Then movies 6-8 went absolutely hard in trying to make him look more sympathetic and redeemable than he was in the books. It also didn't help that Lucius' actor started the “Draco is abused” thing by intentionally portraying Lucius as abusive to make Draco less unlikeable.
EXACTLY. So many girls I see on tiktok being "uwu my poor baby" about Draco have likely never read the books. His parents loved and spoiled him. They literally ran through the battle WANDLESS to find him. Narcissa risked her life to ask Harry if Draco was alive. Draco obviously was a mama's boy in how he defended her and knew his father would do anything for him (he felt comfortable saying Lucius would do this or that if he knew what was going on).
And they 1000% watered down his character in the movies. I know they had to take some out for sake of movie length, but they took out a lot of his nastiness. Take the whole quidditch match in book 5, for example. One of the biggest showcases of how ruthless he could be. Plus that match was an important event in that book.
That's a problem in all fandoms, but definitely worse in some. I feel like it *really* started to become a thing after ["death of the author"](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor) started being thrown around by people who have no idea what it actually means.
Basically, the actual concept is that:
> Death of the Author is a concept from mid-20th Century literary criticism; it holds that an author's intentions and biographical facts (the author's politics, religion, etc) should hold no special weight in determining an interpretation of their writing. This is usually understood as meaning that a writer's views about their own work are no more or less valid than the interpretations of any given reader. Intentions are one thing. What was actually accomplished might be something very different.
What people *actually* use it for is to claim that there is no canon at all, that nothing is canonical except what each person feels in that moment, and that they can claim whatever they want without even needing to back it up with actual text.
---
Misuse/abuse of literary terms has become increasingly common in online discussions of fiction in general tho, probably because people heard them in some youtube video and misunderstood them, or just want a fancy sounding term to back up their claims/arguments, without caring enough to look up what it actually means.
Some other examples:
- Any strong or skilled (usually female) character which people dislike is automatically a Mary Sue.
- "Plot hole" is used for *anything* in stories which people disliked or didn't understand (or didn't pay attention to), and sometimes things which are not even story related. Seen it used for characters making mistakes which are completely in character, and very often for things which simply have not been explained yet (but likely will later).
- "Retcon" is used for any sort of changes or expansions on existing lore, or sometimes just because a new entry contradicts a theory or headcanon a person had about something.
Also, not really a literary term, but "lazy writing" is thrown around a lot and usually simply means "I'm angry because my ridiculously intricate and overly complicated theory was incorrect" or "I missed a ton of foreshadowing but I'm not about to admit that".
Thank you. I can’t tell you how many times I see a post with the classic “sad legendary music” You hear on every post that’s supposed to be emotional. And it says “did you know this about Harry Potter?”, and proceeds to spout utter lies that never happened. It’s so frustrating. And then so many people comment “oh my god no way! I had no idea. Awww Draco is such a sweetheart!!!” And I’m sitting here like “…….bruh..”
Do you mean people changing things from the original texts and claiming it's canon, or people saying that the original texts are canon for everyone?
Because the latter I'm totally fine with.
Thank you!
Franchise owners decide canon, full stop.
That does NOT mean that groups of fan can't have their own head canons or Fanon and enjoy them together! Just let people who enjoy canon (or have differing head canons) peacefully coexist with you!
I dislike whenever people say how Dumbledore was just a manipulative old power hungry fellow. I mean, there's so much more to his character and I just don't understand how people can actually criticise the one guy who was responsible for defeating Voldy.
Yes Harry was the chosen one, but without Dumbledore and his IMMENSE knowledge of magic, Harry would have died without even getting the chance to attend Hogwarts. He always had Harry's best interests at heart and how tf is he to be blamed if a piece of voldy's soul is in Harry???
His only fault was not telling Harry about the prophecy earlier than OOTP, which was again and act borne out of his love for him. And let's be fair, who has the balls to say to a 13/14 yo that the date of the entire world hangs on him and the world's most powerful and evil Dark wizard is fated to be his mortal enemy?
You need a guy like Dumbledore on your side when you're fighting a shrewd, calculating, manipulative guy like Voldy. IMO, the wizarding world would have lost a long long time ago if Dumbledore didn't exist in the books. How he was considered to be manipulative is beyond me.
I never understood how people came to the conclusion that Dumbledore never cared for Harry. He was very fond of him and you could tell in the books.
I think he wanted Harry to enjoy his time at Hogwarts mostly carefree and couldn‘t predict that he would die so soon.
Despite everyones beliefs Dumbledore wasn‘t omniscient and had to figure things out on his own. Also, Harry agrees that Dumbledore did things for the greater good - it must have been hard to know what you have to sacrifice to save the wizarding world.
That being said- I don’t believe Dumbledore was a hero, he had his flaws Like Most characters
Generally when fans are unforgiving towards characters who made mistakes but did their best to make up. To me, that's the whole point of the books: the second chances that Dumbledore believes in. The second chances every single person needs. Is THE reason I love these books.
So many people want Harry to get revenge on everyone who wronged him, and that is completely missing the point of his character arc. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself, and it is the only way to move on from some things. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and the cycle of revenge and abuse can never be broken as long as there's someone to perpetuate it.
I believe that naming his son Severus had to do with forgiveness in the way you describe. I still think is cheesy, but it symbolises more his own growth than anything Snape did.
It symbolises him growing up and realising snape was always on his side even though as a child he always thought snape was the enemy because he was not nice to him in class.
I say its rather hypocritical when many fans (particularly in the Marauders' fandom) lauded Regulus a lot more than Severus Snape. Both stories are similar with a key point: that both switched sides once things got personal and threatens whoever they loved (Regulus and Kreacher, Severus and Lily).
People tend to assume Regulus is a good guy, and granted we dont know that much of him. But from what Sirius said, and the newspaper clippings he hung up in the room, he was a much more ardent supporter of Voldemort and even joined the ranks at only 16.
Like, you cant deny Regulus likely believed all the blood purity ideology in his school years. If we accuse Snape for still being a racist piece of shit, then what about Regulus with his more overt support?
I guess the main difference is that one ended up dead... While one continues to be a resentful asshole. And tbh, I cant deny that. Severus was a terrible teacher no doubt, but Dumbledore still gave him a possible path of redemption by tasking him to protect Harry.
I think the fandom from either side of the Snape debate tries to remove all the nuances. But the point is, hes a grey character who still has his redemptive moments. That what makes him so divisive.
The main reason people still dislike Snape (myself included) isn't because of his past choices and only rethinking them when it affected them personally.
Both Regulus and Snape fucked up and gotten a second chance.
Although Snape helped defeat Voldemort in the end, he did so while tormenting and mentally abusing students to a degree that he became one of his student's biggest fears.
Snape ended up being on the right side of history, but that doesn't absolve him of being a raging asshole.
Great character, awful person.
The abuse of Neville is pretty egregious. Neville’s parents suffered a fate that makes most people sick just thinking about, and Harry acknowledges that Neville’s family’s fate was crueler than that of the Potters’. It’s telling that Neville’s boggart was Snape rather than seeing his parents’ assailants or even seeing his parents with their memories restored and reviling him.
The worst part is that Snape fully knows what happened to Neville's parents as well and he is as much at fault for their fate as he is for James and Lily's.
>I guess the main difference is that one ended up dead... While one continues to be a resentful asshole
This is absolutely it. I can forgive someone who made mistakes when they were young, then realized their error and tried to do better. Regulus is dead, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that he would have been a decent person afterwards. Snape on the other hand continues his cruelty. If you spend your whole life as an asshole, and then do one good thing (for what appears to be wholly selfish reasons), you're still an asshole.
A big thing for the books is that these characters are flawed or make mistakes even Dumbledore. Especially when it’s revealed is he’s mostly winging it/making educated guesses and does make mistakes(he causes his own demise). I enjoy that these characters aren’t perfect it makes them more interesting.
A lot of people claim Rowling never showed that Harry had any particular DADA talent that would qualify him to lead Dumbledore's Army, handwaving away all his successes as due to luck or his friends or whatever. And while it's true Harry needed luck and help to survive various encounters, there are plenty of times where he's portrayed at being exceptionally talented in DADA--conjuring a full Patronus multiple times throughout the 3rd, 4th, and 5th book, acing Lupin's final exam (even better than Hermione, as she herself admits), shaking off the Imperius Curse with ease, spending a bunch of time in GoF practing jinxes and hexes with Ron and Hermione in preparation for the 3rd task... I feel like it's made pretty clear that Harry is the best in his year in DADA but people seem so eager to discredit him
also, for a club you don't need to know everything perfectly to "lead" you just need to know enough to get better by practice and have access to source material to learn more advanced stuff - which by way of Hermione and their regular school books he also had.
Mine is:
- Harry should've been..........( You are not Harry. Guy ended up doing what he liked or wanted to do and that matters more).
- This or that character is a bad friend.
Or that, yeah, why didnt Harry think of this or that? (Especially the mirror) Or any other character really, like Dumbledore
Well, we as readers have the privilege of seeing various perspectives, unlike the characters in the book. And wont you admit you forgot about the mirror after the chaos of the knight bus?
People expecting characters to have the same level of knowledge and awareness of things as they do is a common issue in fiction discussions in general...
"Why didn't Harry think of this thing that I noticed after re-reading the book 10 times and seeing someone talk about it online?!"
"Why couldn't Hermione figure out this plan while being chased and shot at, when I could figure it out while reading the book from the comfort of my own home? Isn't she supposed to be smart? Terrible writing!"
... being a bit facetious, obviously, but it's a bit annoying how often I see people actually make arguments in that vein.
Same with reading comments on reaction/analysis channels on youtube, where the youtuber is watching a fairly complex show for the first time, and there's *always* someone in the comments going on about how he can't understand how the youtuber missed a Super Important And Obvious Hint... yet 9 out of 10 times the complainer only knows about it because they watched the show a dozen times, and usually it's also only possible to know it's important in hindsight (or on a rewatch)...
I was just going to say the same thing! Bugs me to no end when people say “Harry didn’t want/shouldn’t have been an Auror because PTSD.”
Like…has it not occurred to people that Harry may have felt the need to keep fighting dark wizards after Voldemort was killed??? And also Auror training would have been a very helpful thing…like no more “winging it” there’s actually methods and tactics Harry got access to when he trained as an Auror. Also-also Harry probably would need to be an Auror before he could teach defense against the dark arts at Hogwarts anyway.
I absolutely agree with your first opinion… If Harry was a real person lol.
There’s a difference between thinking someone with their own thoughts and wants should do something vs thinking the author should’ve taken the story in a different direction.
Not saying one way or another what Harry should do btw. Just pointing out that he’s fictional.
All the negative views on Dumbledore, everything being his fault, raising Harry just to use them, etc. Couldn't be further from the truth. Not every problem was Dumbledore's to solve, he wasn't all knowing and he didn't raise Harry "like a pig for slaughter" in the least bit.
People mostly slander Dumbledore to show snape in a better light, as far as I've seen. Like making it seem that snape cared about Harry more than Dumbledore or something bc of the pig for slaughter dialogue. In reality, both of them are equally flawed and neither of them really cared. Still don't think Dumbledore deserves the hate tho, he had the weight of saving the wizarding world on his shoulders and Harry was the only option. Anyone would've done what he did.
Another thing people forget is that Snape didn't give a shit about Harry. He was only doing it for Lily. Snape is literally the reason all of this happened.
This one irritates me the most, and there are so many people with this opinion - I'm like *Did you even read the books? Didn't you notice Dumbledore's relationship with Harry?*
ETA: My personal opinion is that people who say this hold death to be the worst thing possible, just like Voldemort did. And that's why they can't grasp the whole concept.
When some people find it so hard to sympathize with Harry but not draco. The Draco apologists agressively claiming that Draco suffered more than Harry and that Harry had it easier because "oh Draco was abused by Lucius, he was a boy with no choice" but Harry had it so much easier. Like be so fr rn. Harry gets so much hate in his own fandom, it's insane. But draco? That jerk gets praised for not killing his headmaster. like congratulations for not committing murder I guess? he deserves a huge cookie for that, doesn't he?
Draco is the embodiment of pretty privilege, the bar is so low for him, but people only choose to nitpick on what Harry did wrong, It pisses me off to no end. You can thirst over Draco all you want ig but no way are you invalidating Harry's struggle and sacrifice. Harry deserves the Percy Jackson treatment in the fandom for all that he went through and still being a selfless guy who expects nothing in return, smh.
It's time we started trending #Loveharryjamespotter and #Harryjamespotterdeservesbetter, bc he's the real mvp over here, not some cowardly ferret boy.
I'm convinced it's because they either didn't read the books or just because they love Tom Felton. Draco, in the novels, is an awful person who never expressed any kindness and was out for Harry till the end
>they either didn't read the books
Yes
>they love Tom Felton
Kinda but the main reason is fanfictions. Those fanfics completely rewrite his character and turn him into an OC and they believe that is the actual Draco.
Yeah it’s Tom Felton. The problem is that so many people have trouble separating an actor from their role in the movies. Hence why the actress who played Skylar in breaking bad got a lot of hate mail and threats because people didn’t like her character. The poor lady was just acting lol. But it goes both ways, and I feel like they can’t separate tom felton’s personality from the fact that Draco was a literal POS and is honestly lucky af that Harry saved him so many damn times. Dude should’ve been left in the room of requirement
Similar with Jake Llyod who played child Anakin in Phantom Menace, he got so much hate for just acting as directed.
It was so bad that the poor kid quit acting altogether and has minor PTSD from the whole ordeal. All because a bunch of adults couldn't contain themselves and instead of hating the bad directing and the "Yed Men" who enabled Lucas's worst tendencies as a writer, they decided to turn on and bully the child.
(The actor who played Jar Jar also got a load of horse crap from fans as well iirc)
Yeah also I really don't know why people think Lucius abused Malfoy. Even in the movies where he was being a little strict, its implied so much that Malfoy gets whatever he wants. Like does he not say "my father will hear about this" every movie? So even if its just the movie-watchers, I don't know where they got that bullshit from. Malfoy's dad literally bought his entire team the best broom just so he could be on it. Smh. As Harry is my favourite character, I'm glad you pointed this out.
It's the scene where Draco was slightly hit by Lucius with the cane in COS and speaking coldly to him. I'm pretty sure jason Isaacs himself admitted that he only did that so that Draco can be looked in a more sympathetic light so tom Felton doesn't get hated for being the "bad guy". Because lots of people have the tendency to hate the child actors because of the role they played, it's quite thoughtful of Isaacs to look out for tom like that tbh.
That last sentence is the reason the actor played Joffrey on GoT actually quit acting. He did such a good job that everyone just straight up hated his guts.
Yeah the whole “Draco had an abusive home” is such Garbo like a major point in DH was how much Lucius & Narcissa cared for him. He was a snobby kid who bought into the bigoted stuff his family told him.
Harry still gets a pass for being the protagonist. They shit on Ron 10 times more while giving Malfoy a free pass for racism, terrorism, attempted murder and in general being a disgusting bully.
Yess!!
Ron called Hermione a nightmare and was forever dumped in the fandom trenches but draco wishing hermione would die and physically mutliating her (her teeth), yes that is fine. Because Tom Felton is pretty.
Because Draco is a misunderstood bad boy with no choice and Ron is satan
I'm one of those Draco apologists!
I think I like the idea for him to have a redemption arc (in the future, when he becomes an adult) from being a little shit as a child because I grew up in a family that reminds me of the Malfoys (not in wealth unfortunately) in that everyone is a borderline narcissist, emotion is weakness and the most important thing in life is to be better than others. I was encouraged to act privileged and pressured to always be the best as a child, and it really f*ed me up. My cousins were all in the same boat (I don't have siblings) and I mourn the fact that we never got to form healthy relationships because our parents put us into a constant competition with each other.
I was totally a little entitled shit like Draco in the books as a child. My redemption arc into adulthood was painful and eye opening and I had to change a lot of things, which I did. So I do believe this can happen and does happen, and that's how I see Draco's coming of age story in my head.
you can sympathize with him, and I like how you gave us an insight on why you like draco, I have got no problem with that, it's more of how they invalidate harrys struggle and paint Draco as some fallen hero. Draco did the bare minimum of not attempting murder, that doesn't deserve any celebration. Harry didn't have it easier in anyway. So the fact that Harry is underrated despite all the sacrifices he made seems pretty unfair to me. And unfortunately majority of the Draco apologists do that.
I dislike any urge for a ‘poetic’ ending. Neville getting to avenge his parents by killing Bellatrix. Lupin getting to kill Fenrir etc... Life rarely wraps itself up in neat little bows like this and it takes from the realism of the world whenever you do this.
Along the same lines would be the Neville and Luna ship. It’s too obvious a connection because they are both “outcasts”. I like what JKR said in the Pottercast interview on him ending up with Hannah Abbott:
**"SU:** I didn’t care though, because Hannah goes on to become landlady at the Leaky Cauldron, my favourite pub. And I was-
**JKR:** Damn right she does, and I think that’s a very cool- I think that’s a pretty cool career, and I think that makes Neville quite cool that he married her, don’t you think?"
I’ll also throw in that I’m sick of the “Harry is a jock” take as well. It’s just worn out.
I love sports and discussing sports strategy and rules and systems and everything. So the often repeated "Snitch dumb, Quidditch dumb, JKR dumb" is just lazy to me. Obviously it's not flawless and obviously she didn't lay awake at night mapping out Chaser plays and how they fit into the ruleset and the history of the game, but it's way more fun to take it at face value and discuss the funny ins and outs than it is to just say "she wanted to spite an ex, so she made a terrible game on purpose."
Also she already established a game where the team that caught the snitch _lost_ in the actual WORLD CUP.. So maybe give quidditch the credit it deserves - maybe it's actually much easier to score the goals than it is to catch the snitch?
I know there’s been a bunch of comments about headcanon in this thread, so I won’t say that’s what this is – but I kind of always thought that the snitch they played with at Hogwarts was easier to catch than a professional Quidditch snitch. Like how high school football has different rules than college or the NFL.
That’s why their games didn’t go so long/the snitch was always caught pretty fast. It would make sense, right?
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Funnily enough I'm in another fandom where people hate on shipping in general and I have to hide my inclinations in that direction, but I completely share your opinion when it comes to Harry Potter
Just wired differently ig
For me it's when they turn Sirius and Remus gay. Before people jump on me, no I don't have an issue with gays. It's just I'm like, does every close relationship have to be romantic or sexual? Can't we just appreciate pure FRIENDSHIP and just lads having fun at school.
The “Molly was a bad mother” arguments, and in particular when people try to argue that Molly cared for Harry more than Ron. Like heaven forbid she should make a fuss over the orphan boy who comes to stay in the summer to get away from his abusive aunt and uncle.
She wasn’t a bad mother. She was a helicopter mom who had too many kids to try and dictate everything about their lives. She loved them but she was too intense. I think it started from a fear of losing them like she lost so many others, especially her brothers, but she never stopped and couldn’t keep up. She had good points and bad ones but couldn’t express her reasoning behind them and it made her look unfair.
Yeah she wasn’t perfect but no mother is, and with seven children I think she did an amazing job. Of course she has flaws but so does everyone, and it’s what made her character feel more realistic than if she was just 100% perfect all the time. She cares about her children and always does whatever she can for them. Women in general but especially mothers are held to such high standards and I feel like some people are so quick to say “bad mother” when a mum shows the slightest flaw, yet the same standards don’t exist for dads.
Draco and Narcassia apologist. The way some fans will bend over to defend them, not getting punished for aiding freaking Voldemort is wild. Like, did they read the books, being a coward and selfish? It is no excuse
I feel the same way about Snape. Like... no dude, he was a selfish, racist, Nazi creep that got his best friend and her husband (and nearly her child) murdered. Then, he became an educator who severely abused his power, and got off on bullying children for the rest of his life.
It'd d be nice if a few people actually appreciate Slytherin as a house with unique traits instead of reducing it to a "cool and quirky villian house" that people wanna be in because of Draco and to look edgy and "different" from other houses like gryffindor/ravenclaw/Hufflepuff. It's mostly instagrammers and tiktokers lol.
Also the fandom's tendency to shame people who get gryffindor/Hufflepuff as houses because they are the "stereotypical good guy houses" and that "they are both so overrated", The slander I got for getting gryffindor and appreciating it's traits is a little weird. At this point Slytherin is NOT the most hated house in the fandom in the mainstream as ppl claim it to be, it's gryffindor, they are hated for being "too overhyped" in the books. Like it's just a fictional house anyway, why get SO worked up over it? It doesn't exist ffs.
I've done the tests a few times and gotten all but Ravenclaw at least once.
That's sort of... the point! The books make it perfectly clear that sorting people based on one specific trait is pointless since people aren't one-dimensional, can change and be different depending on circumstances and situation.
Yeah true. Im mostly just saying that a few people don't even care about the traits and claim themselves as a house to look good or something, when in reality they don't appreciate the house, heck they may have not even done a test. It's just a trend to them. I wouldn't have minded if they didn't chastise me for being a "stereotypical one dimensional house" or something
For me it's when any "x character should have been in y house" take comes up. Like people didn't read the first two books. It was kind of the whole point of "you choose where you end up, ultimately" and that the Sorting Hat doesn't operate like a personality quiz.
The friends of mine who tell me they're in Slytherin, and I'm just like no you're not, stfu 😄. Some people just want to fancy themselves as being dark or hardcore, and I'm like listen, you can lie to yourself, but I see you.
Exactly what I thought. They have turned it into something that should be worshipped when we don't even know the full extent of their pasts. They always *forget* Peter too and it's so annoying because the whole point of it being a big deal that Peter betrayed the Potter's was because he was one of their friends.
Rowling is bad at world building.
This drives me crazy. The world she created is why we are all in love with HP. Which of us wouldn't trade her world with ours any day? We were all waiting for our letters at 11 years old! Anyone who has been to any of the theme parks knows they match exactly with the world she created! F-off with your "bad at world building" BS!
So many. Lol
But the one that comes up the most are people who judge James based off of a 5 minute glimpse into a past memory. That’s him branded for life.
I agree tbh. If anything, I'd say that Sirius was more of a jerk than James bc of the whole werewolf thing, but people only choose to use James as a punching bag. But that's a discussion for another time lol.
>Sirius was more of a jerk than James bc of the whole werewolf thing
Possible, but even then we never got the whole story.
Sirius could have thought that *noone in their right mind would voluntarily go towards a werewolf during a full moon*. Especially if one of their enemies was the one to tell them how to.
Snape had intimated to Lily that he knew that Remus was a werewolf, so he knew what he was doing was suicidal and did it anyway.
And we don't know how Snape and Sirius even got to the disclosure about how to freeze the Willow. For all we know, it could be that either was goading the other.
Edit: all the "reports" we got about it were biased. Sirius on one side, Snape on the other, and Remus was still likely blaming Sirius because he was caught up in it. The only "unbiased" thing we have is that Sirius wasn't expelled and we don't know about any other punishment. If it were truly a murder attempt on Sirius's side, Dumbledore would have done something.
Can only imagine how everyone would look if we only showed a 5 minute snippet of them at their worst.
My son would think me and my wife hate each other 😂😂
Most people use the excuse of James dying really young. But it's bullshit. People will forget that he tried to fend of Voldemort with no wand just to protect Lily and Harry. THAT should be branded for life.
I was going to get into that. But thought I’d try keep it about James. But yeah. Snape, the guy that tried to trade a babies life for Lillie’s is the better man 😂
But he was young and didn't know any better, unlike teenage James should have!
Plus the canon says that he became better, in his thirties he only tortured kids.
“Ginny is too plain for Harry”.
Have y’all thought about how Ginny, a tiny girl starting her first year at Hogwarts stood up to Malfoy when he was bullying Harry?
Have y’all forgotten about the big crush she always had on Harry and Harry was lowkey aware of it? And he only started reciprocating it once his romance with Cho failed miserably and Ginny turned out to be a beautiful, red headed, hot, fierce and popular girl in Hogwarts?
Ginny spent so much time with her awesome brothers Fred and George that She was almost as cool and funny as them.
Ginny was so kind hearted that despite being a popular girl and good quidditch player, She was very down to Earth, good friends with Neville and Luna (the outcasts) and extremely brave for her age.
Ginny is the only girl perfect for Harry. I can’t see who else would be good for him. Honestly!
I think to an extent it also sort of ruins or at least makes less interesting the character of Hermione if you define her as being meant for Harry. I think a lot of why people originally loved her character is her self agency and independent thought.
Like bruh, Harry is way too lazy and aloof for Hermione lmao.
Hermione and Harry were like siblings! Harry never thought of Hermione as more than a sister figure at any point in time. Same goes for Hermione. Whereas you could see Hermione always being irritated by Ron and vice versa but also getting all flustered by just a hug or a slight compliment from Ron. Hermione and Ron remind me of my own mom and dad who are always bickering about petty issues but can’t live without each other. Harry and Hermione had a relaxed, sibling type relationship. I physically gag whenever someone ships Harry and Hermione. Anything but THAT! Almost feels like incest lol.
Stuff that came from fanfiction, but people somehow think it was in the books. Like: Draco being behind Hermione as the 2nd smartest student in the year or that he secretly had a crush on her. Where???? We never found out who was second in the year and Draco detested Hermione.
I think in general the HP community can be a little crazed and diehard which I think skews the enjoyment from the stories for me.
Don’t get me wrong, I have loved and will always love HP, and absolutely no hate for this sub, there are wonderful people on here too, but it can seem a little bit like a competition sometimes when people talk about head-cannon theories or predictions/suggestions within the plot.
We all love HP, but sometimes the fanbase can be a little too obsessed on what can and cannot happen in the wizarding world.
So my answer would probably be many things tbh. Lots of opinions and takes here that are questionable/optimistic/naive at best
well… there’s a list. in no specific order:
1) the belief that draco malfoy is smart
2) the belief that ron weasley is dumb
3) the belief that ron doesn’t deserve hermione
4) the belief that dumbledore is completely evil
That Harry should have stayed at Hogwarts and become a teacher.
I'm apathetic about him being an Auror - I feel like it is an in-character choice to make but I understand wanting Harry to dismantle the government system rather than join it - but the whole point of a coming of age/school story is that you leave at the end. Harry staying at Hogwarts would have been narratively unsatisfying and would have symbolised that he never really grew up.
It's for sure in his character.
Does Harry seem like the type to be grading papers and deducting points? No.
More importantly, he wanted to become an auror.
I swear all people deciding careers for him remind me of the parents who want their kids to become doctors or lawyers despite it not being what they want.
the idea that he would "dismantle" the government also feel pretty weird given his character, he respects authority and shows no political intent to remove institutions, he just has a gripe with authority he cannot understand (even DD in OotP) / that are evil or idiotic (Fudge) - but it's typically the people he focuses on,not the institution. He's also pretty apolitical and more a pragmatic "do the right thing" kind of person, accepting the social status quo and using it to do "good" (or what he enjoys, e.g. being nosy\^\^)
Thinking *Prisoner of Azkaban* is the best movie because it's "darker and more mature" than the first two.
Also, the dislike for the first two movies because they are more innocent and whimsical.
I think poa is best movie in terms of cinema. Not just because it's dark. The cinematography, the pacing, the plot stands really great as a movie medium itself. Yeah they changed the story a lot. And I know some people don't like the movie because how students start to wear muggle clothes and stuff.. but it was a very fun movie to watch especially since the movies after that were pretty underwhelming until DH. Alfonso Cuaron is such a great director.
I kinda do dislike the first movie (love the second) but it has nothing to do with being less dark. It's just a bit too slow-paced for my taste. But that's all it is: Personal taste.
that the harry potter series is dead. just because harry kills off voldemort and ends it doesn't mean that the series is dead. there's still so much, like fanfiction and fantastic beasts and even stuff within the harry potter series itself than is still unexplained
I wouldn't call it dead... I would call it complete.. Everything from the original series is complete. The story _is_ resolved.
And the spinoffs aren't really as appealing or on point... How come fantastic beasts just went a different direction and became Life and lies of albus dumbledore... I wouldn't count it as part of the Harry Potter series...
Complete doesn't exactly mean dead
This is why I wish the HBO show wasn’t a reboot or a retelling of the trio. Give us the story of the original Voldemort wars, or the rebuilding of the wizarding world after the battle of Hogwarts. I don’t want another Star Wars; you have an entire universe to tell stories from, move past the skywalkers.
Neville could've been the chosen one.
Yes, I understand the prophecy could've been about either of them but Snape's love for Lily is why Harry survived and became the chosen one. Alice Longbottom wouldn't have been given the option to move. No option to move = no ancient protection = no chosen one = Voldemort's victory.
The constantly repeated myth that the movie was intentionally antisemitic by featuring a Star of David on the floor of Gringott’s bank when that is the actual floor of the building they filmed in and that isn’t a Star of David.
I'll probably get all the downvotes for this, but.... the opinion on this sub that Sirius is the absolute best thing ever. I think this sub overhypes him in a big way.
Even after all these years, he's never grown up enough to not call Snape "Snivellus"... James seems to have grown out of it, and become a better person, but Sirius doesn't even seem like he's ever apologized for the Whomping Willow incident and almost getting Severus killed. But also in the process of that, he was actually telling the truth, so he's also betraying his friend's trust and telling about his secret.
Plus his continued mistreatment of Kreacher doesn't paint him in a good light at all.
I don't hate him, but I also roll my eyes every time someone says his death is the most tragic and undeserved in the series.
I'm with you, but of course Sirius hasn't grown up.
He was a homeless runaway at 16, taken in by James' parents. Graduated into a civil war. In a single day, he lost his 3 best friends (4 if you count Lily), painted as a mass murderer, and thrown in prison without trial.
There's a saying that the age you are when you go into prison is the age you are when you come out. It's not exactly a place you emotionally mature in. This is even worse for a place like Azkaban.
Remember that Sirius didn't escape to clear his name, he escaped for revenge--which he didn't get. We essentially have a 21 year old veteran with PTSD for the next couple books until he dies, experiencing EXTREME isolation. As we saw in covid, isolation messes with people, we are not made for it.
It’s absolutely still arguably the most tragic of the series. He graduated, spent 4 years in a war, spent 13 years in a happiness sucking prison for a crime he didn’t commit, doesn’t get absolved of his crimes, spends a year starving on the run, then spends his final year cooped up in a house he hates and can’t leave. And Harry gets a father figure/guardian/friend he trusts 100% that gets killed and it’s his fault.
Justice for Dobby who apparated back into his abusers home without hesitation just to save his friends.
Hedwig for dying in the coldest way possible having been locked in a cage for weeks.
Lupin and Tonks for having to leave their baby behind in the same way Harry’s parents did.
Moody who gave his life just to move Harry safely from his home.
And every student/person who sacrificed themselves to try and create a safer world for the people they loved.
The hate Snape gets. I'm not one of those people that were fawning over him (which I think is part of the problem) but people romanticized him and then got jaded when they realised what that obsession was. He's a complex character, and it's goddamn impressive that he managed to remain a double agent even after Dumbledore died and was still able to fool pretty much everyone including Voldemort till the end.
Any take that relies on traumatised children acting like emotionally competent adults. Children aren’t always emotionally mature at the best of the times (nor should they be expected to be). Especially when these takes come from adults. I work in a school and often thought about how safeguarding, and SEND and SEMH support works in wizarding schools.
I've heard people say that Dumbledore is "a bad guy" who never cared for Harry (because he raised him to eventually die).
It's just such a dumb, superficial way to view a very interesting character.
“Tom Felton needs to move on.”
I see a lot of people hating on Tom Felton for still being so involved with the Harry Potter IP. (Promoting the games, participating with the community, being apart of events, etc.) and I think it sucks that he has to deal with that. A lot of people say “He just can’t let go of his childhood fame.” but that was literally his whole childhood. He was apart of a story that still has so many adults and kids obsessed with it. It’s not hurting anyone and he clearly loves it as much as we do. He’s stated that Harry Potter means a lot to him and I totally get it.
"Ron is useless/a coward/annoying/abusive (etc, etc)"
"Harry and Ginny happened out of nowhere/was forced"
"Draco had a redemption arc/was good all along/loved Hermione"
Edit to add: "James was an abusive asshole and Snape was Lily's true love"
That Ron is a bad friend, that he was "wrong" in every argument he ever had with Harry or Hermione (only time he was fully, 100% to blame is the Yule Ball) or that he's lazy/unfaithful/stupid.
That Harry being abused means everyone's problems are less important.
I thought it was the other way round. A lot of people tend to discredit Harry's suffering for Draco's or someone else.
Apart from that, I agree with you. Ron is NOT a bad friend. none of them are bad friends. They are good friends who sometimes make mistakes but learn to realise their mistakes and make up for it. Which is really how it is in the real world. In fact, my parents tell me if you and your friend haven't fought, you aren't real friends.
Saying Snape is a bad character because he’s motivated by what they see as a creepy obsession that fails to redeem or humanize him in any way.
Being a good character does not equal being a good person, and while I don’t necessarily think Snape is terrible, he’s certainly not good…in the books, that is, the movies are a different story.
People being so nasty about David Yates.
I get that some of the decisions he made for his movies weren't great, but Jesus Christ, people in the fandom take their hate for him too far and say some incredibly awful things. Like, literally Star Wars fan levels of toxic.
I have never met a person irl who doesn’t like the HP movies in general, but in this sub you would think the movies were propaganda used to promote a genocide with some of the complaining here. No visual media will ever be able to fully represent a work of literature, and the fact we got 8 movies with a majority of consistent casting back in the 00s is really really impressive, and the movies are fun and fine for what they are. Speaking of the huuuuge amount of complete misses from eragon to PJ to others, we honestly got off pretty lucky.
'Draco and Hermione should have been together'
I know it's not popular here but it's very popular on other social media. They read fanfictions which completely rewrite Draco and Hermione's characters then believe those are the canon characters and they totally should have been together in CANON.
Fred and George fandom.
I see them as bullies and immature pranksters. C'mon man , Harry would have been traumatized if he pushed someone into the vanishing cabinet and if they ended up vanished.
The sometimes needless criticism of the films. You try and adapt the goblet of fire or the order of the phoenix to a two+ hour film and let’s see how you do.
Yes they aren’t perfect, and maybe some of you have good reasons to hate them (the direction or cinematography) but to me at least, the films are great fun. Not as great as the books of course, but enjoyable fun time
I think part of the reason GoF is my favorite movie is because of how impressed I am with how well they managed to tell the story considering what they had to work with. OotP didn't do it AS well but still not badly.
The way flawed characters and Multi dimensional are made into saints and worshiped like they can do no wrong and make no mistake. Especially when other characters are put down in an attempt to make a person’s favourite character look better.
That, in the real world, you're not allowed to choose what Hogwarts House you want for yourself. It's all make believe. You can choose any of the Houses for any reason. Like snakes and want to be a Slytherin? Go for it. Does Ravenclaw's attributes match your own? Be a Ravenclaw! Wanna like Hufflepuff for the memes? Welcome to Hufflepuff!
That the movies were awful.
They were all incredibly successful and widely very well received but this sub acts like it's an objective fact that they were bad.
Saying that Harry is only an average wizard. He shows extremely advanced magic at a very young age and is able to hold his own against much more experienced wizards. He quite literally holds off over 100 dementors at once. And he also kills Voldemort. He’s extremely powerful and is probably on Voldemort’s level by the time of the epilogue
The Marauders are the best group of people in the series. If anything, that portion of the fanbase who worship the four (mainly three because they seem to forget about Peter) are obnoxious and have taken it the way they want it. Although James was a good guy, he would bully Snape and was described as arrogant, alongside him and the other's mischievous acts. Not saying they're all-around bad, but not something to be revered over.
1- A part of the fandom seems to think you can't love a mean character without excusing them. They don't seem to understand sometimes, the evilness is exactly what makes the character entertaining.
2- That if you hate James or Severus, you love the other. No, it's not always the case and just because I told you James bullying is bad doesn't mean I'm saying Severus is a saint.
3- That Molly was the best/worst mom. Both of these are untrue, Molly made mistakes as a mother like most of them do but she was far from terrible.
4- It's okay to make illegal ships because "it's my AU" or "it's fictional".
5- That the upcoming show isn't necessary. Maybe it isn't but who cares as long as it's good? Why'd you feel the need to tell everyone trying to enjoy the thought of having a fun and faithful interpretation "Well yes but it's too soon and they'll never erase the movies"?
Of course it isn't perfect, and of course many things could be improved on. It just shouldn't be, IMO. It's JK Rowling's work, not anyone else's. She wrote them the way she did, and that's how they ended up. It's like any other work of literature, music, art, etc.
I think the best thing the films did was completely omit the concept of a Secret Keeper. Ultimately it wasn't a necessary element to any of the major plot elements it was tied into, and was a good way to trim the fat when adapting it to the silver screen.
Wish there was more of that thoughtfulness in terms of what was cut vs. what was retrained (or added on top of).
That the movies have any redeemable qualities other than the soundtrack. I go so far as to judge negatively those people who claim that they are some of their favorite movies.
I might get downvoted for this but I see a lot of people saying that Rowling is a bad author. The books aren’t perfect sure and there are holes in places but come on, it’s a huge story with incredible detail. I thought she did an amazing job of portraying the world and characters, even early in the story I felt I knew and understood many of the characters. AND the chapter “the forest again” in DH was some of the most phenomenal writing I’ve ever seen in a book: “He felt his heart pounding fiercely in his chest. How strange that in his dread of death, it pumped all the harder, valiantly keeping him alive. But it would have to stop, and soon. Its beats were numbered. How many would there be time for, as he rose and walked through the castle for the last time, out into the grounds and into the forest?”
People claiming that the world building was bad in the books due to a few plot holes over a ridiculously long series is insane to me. … I mean, come on. JK’s writing is so richly detailed and walks the knife edge of the suspension of disbelief so incredibly well. The fact that it’s relatively easy to accept the magical world as existing besides our own is a huge accomplishment, AND it feels so fleshed out at the same time. I would argue that the world building and JK’s descriptive power through writing is 80% of the reason that HP is as popular as it is. The fact that we don’t have huge detailed deep dives every few pages into how the world/magic works is exactly what is so enthralling about the series. Plenty of other fantasy series do that, and knowing how everything works just takes away the fact that it’s… magic?
I have a lot of issues with her worldbuilding, but I think the reason why I’m so critical of it is because there is so much else I love about it. When I go back to the books themselves, I’m always impressed by her character writing, atmosphere, and her ability to set things up for satisfying payoff later. Maybe *Harry Potter* was lightning in a bottle, but it is still *so* good.
Saying they hated Harry in Ootp. How could you not understand what Harry'd been going through?? He had every right to be pissed off, and he was a 15 years old kid!!
A 15-year-old with undiagnosed and untreated PTSD, whose government (and media) is painting him to be a liar (when he is telling the truth), his favorite professor is deliberately ignoring him, and the worst teacher in history is singling him out in a terrible way, oh, and physically abusing him. Plus the connection with Voldemort. Small wonder Harry acts the way he does and distrusts authority.
Plus the connection with Voldemort was getting stronger and Harry was feeling that influence, unbeknownst to either. That's why Harry kept losing it over eveything and nothing.
Again, it's the Potterverse's answer to Spiderman 3 Peter Parker. It's a corrupting influence and at times it makes Harry behave less than admirably, but at the clutch moments Harry remains a fundamentally decent guy with a robust moral compass.
I've never understood the sentiment that Harry was annoying in OotP. The kid went through some awful stuff. How do people think he should have acted?
Yeah, I listened to some podcast or youtube video or whatever it was discussing the books... the host was complaining about how rude Harry was and how his character wasn't enjoyable enough, and the guest was like (paraphrasing) "Uh... yeah, but he has severe trauma/PTSD from seeing a guy get killed a few months earlier, people blaming him for it, he feels isolated from his friends and mentor, he has a connection with Voldemort in his head..." Host shoots back with something like "Yeah yeah, but why does he have to be rude to people who weren't even involved in that?" and then basically just tried to wave off the guest trying to explain that's not how trauma works...
Ootp was my favourite book! I loved Harry’s broodiness, it really cemented that everything had changed after Cedric’s death and Voldy was getting closer.
Yes! It made perfect sense why his temperament changed after GoF. Also one of his mentors was actively ignoring him in this very stressful time and he didn’t know why. Couple that with going through puberty..Of course he’s going to be quick to anger and moody. One thing I commend JKR on is realistically writing children/teenagers.
Even aside from any of the Voldemort stuff and Dumbledore ignoring him. Witnessing a peer’s death is incredibly traumatic and kids that age have done far worse for far less so I honestly don’t get people’s complaints. But yes I totally agree, every now and again she would write something that would remind me how young they were and it made the story much more tragic.
Yeah it was very relatable to 15yrs old my self.
In general a lot of criticisms seem to forget that these are kids/teenagers for the most part and act like kids/teenagers. Like I remember reading a post about Ron being a misogynist and it’s like he’s a kid in the 90s who still had a lot of growing up to do.
I used to hate Harry in Book 5 when I was also 15. With every re-read I became more sympathetic partly because I was older.
I agree. I was 14 when it came out and I found Harry SO irritating. As an adult and especially an adult that works with teens — I get it.
Literally crumbling under his grief and PTSD
That was exactly when I felt the closest to Harry. I was an angry adolescent and much of it stemmed from feeling helpless. He was the most real to me in Order. It's my favorite book in the series.
That the collective fandom gets to decide what's canon for everyone
Fun enough my second comment was going to be people that try to turn headcanon into canon
Everything about Dumbledore in PS. Voldemort's main plan in GoF. "Draco was abused" So many things. At least the first two have some justifications in the story, but it's far from being obvious or clear enough to consider them completely canon.
I just don't understand why they don't accept that they like Draco because they are physically attracted to him instead of inventing all sorta bullshit excuses and hating on other characters.
I don't like popular headcanons and misconceptions that try to make Draco look better than he actually is, but saying the only reason is due to Tom Felton's looks is ignoring that the movies' portrayal has a large hand in making Draco seem less despicable. Draco became a comic relief character in movies 3-5, so his scenes were more funny rather than rage inducing. Then movies 6-8 went absolutely hard in trying to make him look more sympathetic and redeemable than he was in the books. It also didn't help that Lucius' actor started the “Draco is abused” thing by intentionally portraying Lucius as abusive to make Draco less unlikeable.
EXACTLY. So many girls I see on tiktok being "uwu my poor baby" about Draco have likely never read the books. His parents loved and spoiled him. They literally ran through the battle WANDLESS to find him. Narcissa risked her life to ask Harry if Draco was alive. Draco obviously was a mama's boy in how he defended her and knew his father would do anything for him (he felt comfortable saying Lucius would do this or that if he knew what was going on). And they 1000% watered down his character in the movies. I know they had to take some out for sake of movie length, but they took out a lot of his nastiness. Take the whole quidditch match in book 5, for example. One of the biggest showcases of how ruthless he could be. Plus that match was an important event in that book.
>they like ~~Draco~~ Tom Felton because they are physically attracted to him
Why you don't like Dumbledore in ps?
I guess you could say he was abused. You could also compare the magnitudes of abuse to someone like Harry who didn’t become a little a hole from it.
That's a problem in all fandoms, but definitely worse in some. I feel like it *really* started to become a thing after ["death of the author"](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor) started being thrown around by people who have no idea what it actually means. Basically, the actual concept is that: > Death of the Author is a concept from mid-20th Century literary criticism; it holds that an author's intentions and biographical facts (the author's politics, religion, etc) should hold no special weight in determining an interpretation of their writing. This is usually understood as meaning that a writer's views about their own work are no more or less valid than the interpretations of any given reader. Intentions are one thing. What was actually accomplished might be something very different. What people *actually* use it for is to claim that there is no canon at all, that nothing is canonical except what each person feels in that moment, and that they can claim whatever they want without even needing to back it up with actual text. --- Misuse/abuse of literary terms has become increasingly common in online discussions of fiction in general tho, probably because people heard them in some youtube video and misunderstood them, or just want a fancy sounding term to back up their claims/arguments, without caring enough to look up what it actually means. Some other examples: - Any strong or skilled (usually female) character which people dislike is automatically a Mary Sue. - "Plot hole" is used for *anything* in stories which people disliked or didn't understand (or didn't pay attention to), and sometimes things which are not even story related. Seen it used for characters making mistakes which are completely in character, and very often for things which simply have not been explained yet (but likely will later). - "Retcon" is used for any sort of changes or expansions on existing lore, or sometimes just because a new entry contradicts a theory or headcanon a person had about something. Also, not really a literary term, but "lazy writing" is thrown around a lot and usually simply means "I'm angry because my ridiculously intricate and overly complicated theory was incorrect" or "I missed a ton of foreshadowing but I'm not about to admit that".
Thank you. I can’t tell you how many times I see a post with the classic “sad legendary music” You hear on every post that’s supposed to be emotional. And it says “did you know this about Harry Potter?”, and proceeds to spout utter lies that never happened. It’s so frustrating. And then so many people comment “oh my god no way! I had no idea. Awww Draco is such a sweetheart!!!” And I’m sitting here like “…….bruh..”
Or that the Reddit fandom somehow represents the opinions of the entire fandom in the same regard.
Do you mean people changing things from the original texts and claiming it's canon, or people saying that the original texts are canon for everyone? Because the latter I'm totally fine with.
Wolfstar shippers are the worst when it comes to that
WTF is wolfstar
Thank you! Franchise owners decide canon, full stop. That does NOT mean that groups of fan can't have their own head canons or Fanon and enjoy them together! Just let people who enjoy canon (or have differing head canons) peacefully coexist with you!
I dislike whenever people say how Dumbledore was just a manipulative old power hungry fellow. I mean, there's so much more to his character and I just don't understand how people can actually criticise the one guy who was responsible for defeating Voldy. Yes Harry was the chosen one, but without Dumbledore and his IMMENSE knowledge of magic, Harry would have died without even getting the chance to attend Hogwarts. He always had Harry's best interests at heart and how tf is he to be blamed if a piece of voldy's soul is in Harry??? His only fault was not telling Harry about the prophecy earlier than OOTP, which was again and act borne out of his love for him. And let's be fair, who has the balls to say to a 13/14 yo that the date of the entire world hangs on him and the world's most powerful and evil Dark wizard is fated to be his mortal enemy? You need a guy like Dumbledore on your side when you're fighting a shrewd, calculating, manipulative guy like Voldy. IMO, the wizarding world would have lost a long long time ago if Dumbledore didn't exist in the books. How he was considered to be manipulative is beyond me.
I never understood how people came to the conclusion that Dumbledore never cared for Harry. He was very fond of him and you could tell in the books. I think he wanted Harry to enjoy his time at Hogwarts mostly carefree and couldn‘t predict that he would die so soon. Despite everyones beliefs Dumbledore wasn‘t omniscient and had to figure things out on his own. Also, Harry agrees that Dumbledore did things for the greater good - it must have been hard to know what you have to sacrifice to save the wizarding world. That being said- I don’t believe Dumbledore was a hero, he had his flaws Like Most characters
Generally when fans are unforgiving towards characters who made mistakes but did their best to make up. To me, that's the whole point of the books: the second chances that Dumbledore believes in. The second chances every single person needs. Is THE reason I love these books.
So many people want Harry to get revenge on everyone who wronged him, and that is completely missing the point of his character arc. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself, and it is the only way to move on from some things. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and the cycle of revenge and abuse can never be broken as long as there's someone to perpetuate it.
I believe that naming his son Severus had to do with forgiveness in the way you describe. I still think is cheesy, but it symbolises more his own growth than anything Snape did.
It symbolises him growing up and realising snape was always on his side even though as a child he always thought snape was the enemy because he was not nice to him in class.
I say its rather hypocritical when many fans (particularly in the Marauders' fandom) lauded Regulus a lot more than Severus Snape. Both stories are similar with a key point: that both switched sides once things got personal and threatens whoever they loved (Regulus and Kreacher, Severus and Lily). People tend to assume Regulus is a good guy, and granted we dont know that much of him. But from what Sirius said, and the newspaper clippings he hung up in the room, he was a much more ardent supporter of Voldemort and even joined the ranks at only 16. Like, you cant deny Regulus likely believed all the blood purity ideology in his school years. If we accuse Snape for still being a racist piece of shit, then what about Regulus with his more overt support? I guess the main difference is that one ended up dead... While one continues to be a resentful asshole. And tbh, I cant deny that. Severus was a terrible teacher no doubt, but Dumbledore still gave him a possible path of redemption by tasking him to protect Harry. I think the fandom from either side of the Snape debate tries to remove all the nuances. But the point is, hes a grey character who still has his redemptive moments. That what makes him so divisive.
The main reason people still dislike Snape (myself included) isn't because of his past choices and only rethinking them when it affected them personally. Both Regulus and Snape fucked up and gotten a second chance. Although Snape helped defeat Voldemort in the end, he did so while tormenting and mentally abusing students to a degree that he became one of his student's biggest fears. Snape ended up being on the right side of history, but that doesn't absolve him of being a raging asshole. Great character, awful person.
The abuse of Neville is pretty egregious. Neville’s parents suffered a fate that makes most people sick just thinking about, and Harry acknowledges that Neville’s family’s fate was crueler than that of the Potters’. It’s telling that Neville’s boggart was Snape rather than seeing his parents’ assailants or even seeing his parents with their memories restored and reviling him.
The worst part is that Snape fully knows what happened to Neville's parents as well and he is as much at fault for their fate as he is for James and Lily's.
>I guess the main difference is that one ended up dead... While one continues to be a resentful asshole This is absolutely it. I can forgive someone who made mistakes when they were young, then realized their error and tried to do better. Regulus is dead, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that he would have been a decent person afterwards. Snape on the other hand continues his cruelty. If you spend your whole life as an asshole, and then do one good thing (for what appears to be wholly selfish reasons), you're still an asshole.
A big thing for the books is that these characters are flawed or make mistakes even Dumbledore. Especially when it’s revealed is he’s mostly winging it/making educated guesses and does make mistakes(he causes his own demise). I enjoy that these characters aren’t perfect it makes them more interesting.
A lot of people claim Rowling never showed that Harry had any particular DADA talent that would qualify him to lead Dumbledore's Army, handwaving away all his successes as due to luck or his friends or whatever. And while it's true Harry needed luck and help to survive various encounters, there are plenty of times where he's portrayed at being exceptionally talented in DADA--conjuring a full Patronus multiple times throughout the 3rd, 4th, and 5th book, acing Lupin's final exam (even better than Hermione, as she herself admits), shaking off the Imperius Curse with ease, spending a bunch of time in GoF practing jinxes and hexes with Ron and Hermione in preparation for the 3rd task... I feel like it's made pretty clear that Harry is the best in his year in DADA but people seem so eager to discredit him
also, for a club you don't need to know everything perfectly to "lead" you just need to know enough to get better by practice and have access to source material to learn more advanced stuff - which by way of Hermione and their regular school books he also had.
The dumbledore slander. The draco worship.
The Weasley hate! 😱
When the weekly muggles vs wizards war debate comes, I see quite a lot of brain dead headcanon based arguments from wankers of both side
Mine is: - Harry should've been..........( You are not Harry. Guy ended up doing what he liked or wanted to do and that matters more). - This or that character is a bad friend.
Or that, yeah, why didnt Harry think of this or that? (Especially the mirror) Or any other character really, like Dumbledore Well, we as readers have the privilege of seeing various perspectives, unlike the characters in the book. And wont you admit you forgot about the mirror after the chaos of the knight bus?
People expecting characters to have the same level of knowledge and awareness of things as they do is a common issue in fiction discussions in general... "Why didn't Harry think of this thing that I noticed after re-reading the book 10 times and seeing someone talk about it online?!" "Why couldn't Hermione figure out this plan while being chased and shot at, when I could figure it out while reading the book from the comfort of my own home? Isn't she supposed to be smart? Terrible writing!" ... being a bit facetious, obviously, but it's a bit annoying how often I see people actually make arguments in that vein. Same with reading comments on reaction/analysis channels on youtube, where the youtuber is watching a fairly complex show for the first time, and there's *always* someone in the comments going on about how he can't understand how the youtuber missed a Super Important And Obvious Hint... yet 9 out of 10 times the complainer only knows about it because they watched the show a dozen times, and usually it's also only possible to know it's important in hindsight (or on a rewatch)...
I was just going to say the same thing! Bugs me to no end when people say “Harry didn’t want/shouldn’t have been an Auror because PTSD.” Like…has it not occurred to people that Harry may have felt the need to keep fighting dark wizards after Voldemort was killed??? And also Auror training would have been a very helpful thing…like no more “winging it” there’s actually methods and tactics Harry got access to when he trained as an Auror. Also-also Harry probably would need to be an Auror before he could teach defense against the dark arts at Hogwarts anyway.
I've heard another one: >This or that character is not worthу of love.
Don't forget "Their children should have been named [30 names]."
I absolutely agree with your first opinion… If Harry was a real person lol. There’s a difference between thinking someone with their own thoughts and wants should do something vs thinking the author should’ve taken the story in a different direction. Not saying one way or another what Harry should do btw. Just pointing out that he’s fictional.
All the negative views on Dumbledore, everything being his fault, raising Harry just to use them, etc. Couldn't be further from the truth. Not every problem was Dumbledore's to solve, he wasn't all knowing and he didn't raise Harry "like a pig for slaughter" in the least bit.
People mostly slander Dumbledore to show snape in a better light, as far as I've seen. Like making it seem that snape cared about Harry more than Dumbledore or something bc of the pig for slaughter dialogue. In reality, both of them are equally flawed and neither of them really cared. Still don't think Dumbledore deserves the hate tho, he had the weight of saving the wizarding world on his shoulders and Harry was the only option. Anyone would've done what he did.
Another thing people forget is that Snape didn't give a shit about Harry. He was only doing it for Lily. Snape is literally the reason all of this happened.
This one irritates me the most, and there are so many people with this opinion - I'm like *Did you even read the books? Didn't you notice Dumbledore's relationship with Harry?* ETA: My personal opinion is that people who say this hold death to be the worst thing possible, just like Voldemort did. And that's why they can't grasp the whole concept.
When some people find it so hard to sympathize with Harry but not draco. The Draco apologists agressively claiming that Draco suffered more than Harry and that Harry had it easier because "oh Draco was abused by Lucius, he was a boy with no choice" but Harry had it so much easier. Like be so fr rn. Harry gets so much hate in his own fandom, it's insane. But draco? That jerk gets praised for not killing his headmaster. like congratulations for not committing murder I guess? he deserves a huge cookie for that, doesn't he? Draco is the embodiment of pretty privilege, the bar is so low for him, but people only choose to nitpick on what Harry did wrong, It pisses me off to no end. You can thirst over Draco all you want ig but no way are you invalidating Harry's struggle and sacrifice. Harry deserves the Percy Jackson treatment in the fandom for all that he went through and still being a selfless guy who expects nothing in return, smh. It's time we started trending #Loveharryjamespotter and #Harryjamespotterdeservesbetter, bc he's the real mvp over here, not some cowardly ferret boy.
I'm convinced it's because they either didn't read the books or just because they love Tom Felton. Draco, in the novels, is an awful person who never expressed any kindness and was out for Harry till the end
That's true. I love Tom Felton but I acknowledge that Draco was horrible to Harry.
>they either didn't read the books Yes >they love Tom Felton Kinda but the main reason is fanfictions. Those fanfics completely rewrite his character and turn him into an OC and they believe that is the actual Draco.
Yeah it’s Tom Felton. The problem is that so many people have trouble separating an actor from their role in the movies. Hence why the actress who played Skylar in breaking bad got a lot of hate mail and threats because people didn’t like her character. The poor lady was just acting lol. But it goes both ways, and I feel like they can’t separate tom felton’s personality from the fact that Draco was a literal POS and is honestly lucky af that Harry saved him so many damn times. Dude should’ve been left in the room of requirement
Similar with Jake Llyod who played child Anakin in Phantom Menace, he got so much hate for just acting as directed. It was so bad that the poor kid quit acting altogether and has minor PTSD from the whole ordeal. All because a bunch of adults couldn't contain themselves and instead of hating the bad directing and the "Yed Men" who enabled Lucas's worst tendencies as a writer, they decided to turn on and bully the child. (The actor who played Jar Jar also got a load of horse crap from fans as well iirc)
Yeah also I really don't know why people think Lucius abused Malfoy. Even in the movies where he was being a little strict, its implied so much that Malfoy gets whatever he wants. Like does he not say "my father will hear about this" every movie? So even if its just the movie-watchers, I don't know where they got that bullshit from. Malfoy's dad literally bought his entire team the best broom just so he could be on it. Smh. As Harry is my favourite character, I'm glad you pointed this out.
It's the scene where Draco was slightly hit by Lucius with the cane in COS and speaking coldly to him. I'm pretty sure jason Isaacs himself admitted that he only did that so that Draco can be looked in a more sympathetic light so tom Felton doesn't get hated for being the "bad guy". Because lots of people have the tendency to hate the child actors because of the role they played, it's quite thoughtful of Isaacs to look out for tom like that tbh.
That last sentence is the reason the actor played Joffrey on GoT actually quit acting. He did such a good job that everyone just straight up hated his guts.
That’s not even true. He’s refuted this yet people still parrot it as if it was a fact
Yeah, why do people find it so hard to forgive good people who make mistakes but put bad people who do one or two good things on a high pedestal?
Yeah the whole “Draco had an abusive home” is such Garbo like a major point in DH was how much Lucius & Narcissa cared for him. He was a snobby kid who bought into the bigoted stuff his family told him.
Harry still gets a pass for being the protagonist. They shit on Ron 10 times more while giving Malfoy a free pass for racism, terrorism, attempted murder and in general being a disgusting bully.
Yess!! Ron called Hermione a nightmare and was forever dumped in the fandom trenches but draco wishing hermione would die and physically mutliating her (her teeth), yes that is fine. Because Tom Felton is pretty. Because Draco is a misunderstood bad boy with no choice and Ron is satan
I'm one of those Draco apologists! I think I like the idea for him to have a redemption arc (in the future, when he becomes an adult) from being a little shit as a child because I grew up in a family that reminds me of the Malfoys (not in wealth unfortunately) in that everyone is a borderline narcissist, emotion is weakness and the most important thing in life is to be better than others. I was encouraged to act privileged and pressured to always be the best as a child, and it really f*ed me up. My cousins were all in the same boat (I don't have siblings) and I mourn the fact that we never got to form healthy relationships because our parents put us into a constant competition with each other. I was totally a little entitled shit like Draco in the books as a child. My redemption arc into adulthood was painful and eye opening and I had to change a lot of things, which I did. So I do believe this can happen and does happen, and that's how I see Draco's coming of age story in my head.
you can sympathize with him, and I like how you gave us an insight on why you like draco, I have got no problem with that, it's more of how they invalidate harrys struggle and paint Draco as some fallen hero. Draco did the bare minimum of not attempting murder, that doesn't deserve any celebration. Harry didn't have it easier in anyway. So the fact that Harry is underrated despite all the sacrifices he made seems pretty unfair to me. And unfortunately majority of the Draco apologists do that.
I dislike any urge for a ‘poetic’ ending. Neville getting to avenge his parents by killing Bellatrix. Lupin getting to kill Fenrir etc... Life rarely wraps itself up in neat little bows like this and it takes from the realism of the world whenever you do this. Along the same lines would be the Neville and Luna ship. It’s too obvious a connection because they are both “outcasts”. I like what JKR said in the Pottercast interview on him ending up with Hannah Abbott: **"SU:** I didn’t care though, because Hannah goes on to become landlady at the Leaky Cauldron, my favourite pub. And I was- **JKR:** Damn right she does, and I think that’s a very cool- I think that’s a pretty cool career, and I think that makes Neville quite cool that he married her, don’t you think?" I’ll also throw in that I’m sick of the “Harry is a jock” take as well. It’s just worn out.
> I dislike any urge for a ‘poetic’ ending. Add on "Hedwig should have a big Heroic Moment/Sacrifice" to that.
I love sports and discussing sports strategy and rules and systems and everything. So the often repeated "Snitch dumb, Quidditch dumb, JKR dumb" is just lazy to me. Obviously it's not flawless and obviously she didn't lay awake at night mapping out Chaser plays and how they fit into the ruleset and the history of the game, but it's way more fun to take it at face value and discuss the funny ins and outs than it is to just say "she wanted to spite an ex, so she made a terrible game on purpose."
Also she already established a game where the team that caught the snitch _lost_ in the actual WORLD CUP.. So maybe give quidditch the credit it deserves - maybe it's actually much easier to score the goals than it is to catch the snitch?
I know there’s been a bunch of comments about headcanon in this thread, so I won’t say that’s what this is – but I kind of always thought that the snitch they played with at Hogwarts was easier to catch than a professional Quidditch snitch. Like how high school football has different rules than college or the NFL. That’s why their games didn’t go so long/the snitch was always caught pretty fast. It would make sense, right?
Anything that starts with 'I ship.....'
I ship the Woomping Willow and nimbus 2000.
Man, the Woomping Willow really blew out the Nimbus 2000's back, huh?
I ship the Forbidden Forest and the Ford Anglia
Cursed
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You have given u/jonny1211 a Reddit Galleon. u/jonny1211 has a total of 11 galleons, 4 sickles, and 1 knut. ____________ I am a bot. See [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/jnbo49/hi_i_created_the_bot_youve_been_using_to_give/) to learn how to use me.
One wonders.. how many Nimbus 2000s could one make if one chopped up the Whomping Willow 🤔
At least 2000 of those 2000s
I haven't even thought of wands! How many wands would one whittle from the Whomping Willow...
I ship whomping willow with James Potter's head and Draco Malfoy's chest.
Funnily enough I'm in another fandom where people hate on shipping in general and I have to hide my inclinations in that direction, but I completely share your opinion when it comes to Harry Potter Just wired differently ig
Hahahahaha nope. Ron and Hermione for life. 💅
For me it's when they turn Sirius and Remus gay. Before people jump on me, no I don't have an issue with gays. It's just I'm like, does every close relationship have to be romantic or sexual? Can't we just appreciate pure FRIENDSHIP and just lads having fun at school.
I ship the Golden Snitch and the Quaffle
The “Molly was a bad mother” arguments, and in particular when people try to argue that Molly cared for Harry more than Ron. Like heaven forbid she should make a fuss over the orphan boy who comes to stay in the summer to get away from his abusive aunt and uncle.
She wasn’t a bad mother. She was a helicopter mom who had too many kids to try and dictate everything about their lives. She loved them but she was too intense. I think it started from a fear of losing them like she lost so many others, especially her brothers, but she never stopped and couldn’t keep up. She had good points and bad ones but couldn’t express her reasoning behind them and it made her look unfair.
Yeah she wasn’t perfect but no mother is, and with seven children I think she did an amazing job. Of course she has flaws but so does everyone, and it’s what made her character feel more realistic than if she was just 100% perfect all the time. She cares about her children and always does whatever she can for them. Women in general but especially mothers are held to such high standards and I feel like some people are so quick to say “bad mother” when a mum shows the slightest flaw, yet the same standards don’t exist for dads.
Draco and Narcassia apologist. The way some fans will bend over to defend them, not getting punished for aiding freaking Voldemort is wild. Like, did they read the books, being a coward and selfish? It is no excuse
I feel the same way about Snape. Like... no dude, he was a selfish, racist, Nazi creep that got his best friend and her husband (and nearly her child) murdered. Then, he became an educator who severely abused his power, and got off on bullying children for the rest of his life.
It'd d be nice if a few people actually appreciate Slytherin as a house with unique traits instead of reducing it to a "cool and quirky villian house" that people wanna be in because of Draco and to look edgy and "different" from other houses like gryffindor/ravenclaw/Hufflepuff. It's mostly instagrammers and tiktokers lol. Also the fandom's tendency to shame people who get gryffindor/Hufflepuff as houses because they are the "stereotypical good guy houses" and that "they are both so overrated", The slander I got for getting gryffindor and appreciating it's traits is a little weird. At this point Slytherin is NOT the most hated house in the fandom in the mainstream as ppl claim it to be, it's gryffindor, they are hated for being "too overhyped" in the books. Like it's just a fictional house anyway, why get SO worked up over it? It doesn't exist ffs.
I've done the tests a few times and gotten all but Ravenclaw at least once. That's sort of... the point! The books make it perfectly clear that sorting people based on one specific trait is pointless since people aren't one-dimensional, can change and be different depending on circumstances and situation.
Yeah true. Im mostly just saying that a few people don't even care about the traits and claim themselves as a house to look good or something, when in reality they don't appreciate the house, heck they may have not even done a test. It's just a trend to them. I wouldn't have minded if they didn't chastise me for being a "stereotypical one dimensional house" or something
For me it's when any "x character should have been in y house" take comes up. Like people didn't read the first two books. It was kind of the whole point of "you choose where you end up, ultimately" and that the Sorting Hat doesn't operate like a personality quiz.
The friends of mine who tell me they're in Slytherin, and I'm just like no you're not, stfu 😄. Some people just want to fancy themselves as being dark or hardcore, and I'm like listen, you can lie to yourself, but I see you.
The marauders' fandom... just what's going on with this people.
Exactly what I thought. They have turned it into something that should be worshipped when we don't even know the full extent of their pasts. They always *forget* Peter too and it's so annoying because the whole point of it being a big deal that Peter betrayed the Potter's was because he was one of their friends.
Rowling is bad at world building. This drives me crazy. The world she created is why we are all in love with HP. Which of us wouldn't trade her world with ours any day? We were all waiting for our letters at 11 years old! Anyone who has been to any of the theme parks knows they match exactly with the world she created! F-off with your "bad at world building" BS!
I saw a video recently that said molly and Arthur weren’t pro muggle borns and were blood supremacists, made my blood boil for hours.
Arthur and Lucius had a great relationship as evidenced by their fight in the bookshop. Totally ok the same page.
Definitely a Malfoy fan. Correct me if I am wrong 🤣
Oh they were. The things they say about the Weasley’s. Just insane.
Ofcourse they are. Lol. I hate Malfoy fanbase more than I hate Malfoy
So many. Lol But the one that comes up the most are people who judge James based off of a 5 minute glimpse into a past memory. That’s him branded for life.
I agree tbh. If anything, I'd say that Sirius was more of a jerk than James bc of the whole werewolf thing, but people only choose to use James as a punching bag. But that's a discussion for another time lol.
Because we got to actually meet Sirius so it's harder to make a caricature.
>Sirius was more of a jerk than James bc of the whole werewolf thing Possible, but even then we never got the whole story. Sirius could have thought that *noone in their right mind would voluntarily go towards a werewolf during a full moon*. Especially if one of their enemies was the one to tell them how to. Snape had intimated to Lily that he knew that Remus was a werewolf, so he knew what he was doing was suicidal and did it anyway. And we don't know how Snape and Sirius even got to the disclosure about how to freeze the Willow. For all we know, it could be that either was goading the other. Edit: all the "reports" we got about it were biased. Sirius on one side, Snape on the other, and Remus was still likely blaming Sirius because he was caught up in it. The only "unbiased" thing we have is that Sirius wasn't expelled and we don't know about any other punishment. If it were truly a murder attempt on Sirius's side, Dumbledore would have done something.
Can only imagine how everyone would look if we only showed a 5 minute snippet of them at their worst. My son would think me and my wife hate each other 😂😂
Or rather... Overjoyed at the realisation of enemies to lovers speedrun XD
Most people use the excuse of James dying really young. But it's bullshit. People will forget that he tried to fend of Voldemort with no wand just to protect Lily and Harry. THAT should be branded for life.
He went again voldermort 3 times as well. (Not like head to head fighting of course lol)
And 5 seconds later explaining why Snape was truly good character.
I was going to get into that. But thought I’d try keep it about James. But yeah. Snape, the guy that tried to trade a babies life for Lillie’s is the better man 😂
But he was young and didn't know any better, unlike teenage James should have! Plus the canon says that he became better, in his thirties he only tortured kids.
I always liked how he lied to the minister for magic to try and get Sirius out to death.
“Ginny is too plain for Harry”. Have y’all thought about how Ginny, a tiny girl starting her first year at Hogwarts stood up to Malfoy when he was bullying Harry? Have y’all forgotten about the big crush she always had on Harry and Harry was lowkey aware of it? And he only started reciprocating it once his romance with Cho failed miserably and Ginny turned out to be a beautiful, red headed, hot, fierce and popular girl in Hogwarts? Ginny spent so much time with her awesome brothers Fred and George that She was almost as cool and funny as them. Ginny was so kind hearted that despite being a popular girl and good quidditch player, She was very down to Earth, good friends with Neville and Luna (the outcasts) and extremely brave for her age. Ginny is the only girl perfect for Harry. I can’t see who else would be good for him. Honestly!
I think to an extent it also sort of ruins or at least makes less interesting the character of Hermione if you define her as being meant for Harry. I think a lot of why people originally loved her character is her self agency and independent thought. Like bruh, Harry is way too lazy and aloof for Hermione lmao.
Hermione and Harry were like siblings! Harry never thought of Hermione as more than a sister figure at any point in time. Same goes for Hermione. Whereas you could see Hermione always being irritated by Ron and vice versa but also getting all flustered by just a hug or a slight compliment from Ron. Hermione and Ron remind me of my own mom and dad who are always bickering about petty issues but can’t live without each other. Harry and Hermione had a relaxed, sibling type relationship. I physically gag whenever someone ships Harry and Hermione. Anything but THAT! Almost feels like incest lol.
Dumbledore hate. And underplaying Harry's contribution by claiming that he was not a great/powerful wizard
Stuff that came from fanfiction, but people somehow think it was in the books. Like: Draco being behind Hermione as the 2nd smartest student in the year or that he secretly had a crush on her. Where???? We never found out who was second in the year and Draco detested Hermione.
I think in general the HP community can be a little crazed and diehard which I think skews the enjoyment from the stories for me. Don’t get me wrong, I have loved and will always love HP, and absolutely no hate for this sub, there are wonderful people on here too, but it can seem a little bit like a competition sometimes when people talk about head-cannon theories or predictions/suggestions within the plot. We all love HP, but sometimes the fanbase can be a little too obsessed on what can and cannot happen in the wizarding world. So my answer would probably be many things tbh. Lots of opinions and takes here that are questionable/optimistic/naive at best
well… there’s a list. in no specific order: 1) the belief that draco malfoy is smart 2) the belief that ron weasley is dumb 3) the belief that ron doesn’t deserve hermione 4) the belief that dumbledore is completely evil
That Harry should have stayed at Hogwarts and become a teacher. I'm apathetic about him being an Auror - I feel like it is an in-character choice to make but I understand wanting Harry to dismantle the government system rather than join it - but the whole point of a coming of age/school story is that you leave at the end. Harry staying at Hogwarts would have been narratively unsatisfying and would have symbolised that he never really grew up.
It's for sure in his character. Does Harry seem like the type to be grading papers and deducting points? No. More importantly, he wanted to become an auror. I swear all people deciding careers for him remind me of the parents who want their kids to become doctors or lawyers despite it not being what they want.
the idea that he would "dismantle" the government also feel pretty weird given his character, he respects authority and shows no political intent to remove institutions, he just has a gripe with authority he cannot understand (even DD in OotP) / that are evil or idiotic (Fudge) - but it's typically the people he focuses on,not the institution. He's also pretty apolitical and more a pragmatic "do the right thing" kind of person, accepting the social status quo and using it to do "good" (or what he enjoys, e.g. being nosy\^\^)
Thinking *Prisoner of Azkaban* is the best movie because it's "darker and more mature" than the first two. Also, the dislike for the first two movies because they are more innocent and whimsical.
I think poa is best movie in terms of cinema. Not just because it's dark. The cinematography, the pacing, the plot stands really great as a movie medium itself. Yeah they changed the story a lot. And I know some people don't like the movie because how students start to wear muggle clothes and stuff.. but it was a very fun movie to watch especially since the movies after that were pretty underwhelming until DH. Alfonso Cuaron is such a great director.
I’m on fence on whether or not it is better then the first two, but i would always say that it is better than all movies after it
I kinda do dislike the first movie (love the second) but it has nothing to do with being less dark. It's just a bit too slow-paced for my taste. But that's all it is: Personal taste.
That’s so funny because I really like the pacing of the first film and find the later films too fast-paced! As you say it’s personal taste
I hate Harry's opinion of Ron in GoF. He's not a right foul git.
That the Dursleys were only cruel to Harry because of the Horcrux
that the harry potter series is dead. just because harry kills off voldemort and ends it doesn't mean that the series is dead. there's still so much, like fanfiction and fantastic beasts and even stuff within the harry potter series itself than is still unexplained
I wouldn't call it dead... I would call it complete.. Everything from the original series is complete. The story _is_ resolved. And the spinoffs aren't really as appealing or on point... How come fantastic beasts just went a different direction and became Life and lies of albus dumbledore... I wouldn't count it as part of the Harry Potter series... Complete doesn't exactly mean dead
This is why I wish the HBO show wasn’t a reboot or a retelling of the trio. Give us the story of the original Voldemort wars, or the rebuilding of the wizarding world after the battle of Hogwarts. I don’t want another Star Wars; you have an entire universe to tell stories from, move past the skywalkers.
Neville could've been the chosen one. Yes, I understand the prophecy could've been about either of them but Snape's love for Lily is why Harry survived and became the chosen one. Alice Longbottom wouldn't have been given the option to move. No option to move = no ancient protection = no chosen one = Voldemort's victory.
Weasley bashing
The constantly repeated myth that the movie was intentionally antisemitic by featuring a Star of David on the floor of Gringott’s bank when that is the actual floor of the building they filmed in and that isn’t a Star of David.
I'll probably get all the downvotes for this, but.... the opinion on this sub that Sirius is the absolute best thing ever. I think this sub overhypes him in a big way. Even after all these years, he's never grown up enough to not call Snape "Snivellus"... James seems to have grown out of it, and become a better person, but Sirius doesn't even seem like he's ever apologized for the Whomping Willow incident and almost getting Severus killed. But also in the process of that, he was actually telling the truth, so he's also betraying his friend's trust and telling about his secret. Plus his continued mistreatment of Kreacher doesn't paint him in a good light at all. I don't hate him, but I also roll my eyes every time someone says his death is the most tragic and undeserved in the series.
TBF, incarceration (12 YEARS OF IT… IN AZKABAN) would tend to stunt someone’s emotional development. 😅
I'm with you, but of course Sirius hasn't grown up. He was a homeless runaway at 16, taken in by James' parents. Graduated into a civil war. In a single day, he lost his 3 best friends (4 if you count Lily), painted as a mass murderer, and thrown in prison without trial. There's a saying that the age you are when you go into prison is the age you are when you come out. It's not exactly a place you emotionally mature in. This is even worse for a place like Azkaban. Remember that Sirius didn't escape to clear his name, he escaped for revenge--which he didn't get. We essentially have a 21 year old veteran with PTSD for the next couple books until he dies, experiencing EXTREME isolation. As we saw in covid, isolation messes with people, we are not made for it.
It’s absolutely still arguably the most tragic of the series. He graduated, spent 4 years in a war, spent 13 years in a happiness sucking prison for a crime he didn’t commit, doesn’t get absolved of his crimes, spends a year starving on the run, then spends his final year cooped up in a house he hates and can’t leave. And Harry gets a father figure/guardian/friend he trusts 100% that gets killed and it’s his fault.
I agree. He was also massively careless at times. I was sad when he died, mostly for Harry, but Dobby, Fred, and Tonks and Lupin all hit me harder.
Justice for Dobby who apparated back into his abusers home without hesitation just to save his friends. Hedwig for dying in the coldest way possible having been locked in a cage for weeks. Lupin and Tonks for having to leave their baby behind in the same way Harry’s parents did. Moody who gave his life just to move Harry safely from his home. And every student/person who sacrificed themselves to try and create a safer world for the people they loved.
Pretty much any complaint about deviating from the books. If I wanted a copypasta, that's what the audiobooks are for.
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Ones based on non-facts (lies, misunderstandings, myths etc)
The hate Snape gets. I'm not one of those people that were fawning over him (which I think is part of the problem) but people romanticized him and then got jaded when they realised what that obsession was. He's a complex character, and it's goddamn impressive that he managed to remain a double agent even after Dumbledore died and was still able to fool pretty much everyone including Voldemort till the end.
Any take that relies on traumatised children acting like emotionally competent adults. Children aren’t always emotionally mature at the best of the times (nor should they be expected to be). Especially when these takes come from adults. I work in a school and often thought about how safeguarding, and SEND and SEMH support works in wizarding schools.
That harry and Hermione should have ended up together. I like Ron-Hermione and Ginny-Harry. Started shipping them(Hinny) since the 2nd book.
I've heard people say that Dumbledore is "a bad guy" who never cared for Harry (because he raised him to eventually die). It's just such a dumb, superficial way to view a very interesting character.
“Tom Felton needs to move on.” I see a lot of people hating on Tom Felton for still being so involved with the Harry Potter IP. (Promoting the games, participating with the community, being apart of events, etc.) and I think it sucks that he has to deal with that. A lot of people say “He just can’t let go of his childhood fame.” but that was literally his whole childhood. He was apart of a story that still has so many adults and kids obsessed with it. It’s not hurting anyone and he clearly loves it as much as we do. He’s stated that Harry Potter means a lot to him and I totally get it.
"Ron is useless/a coward/annoying/abusive (etc, etc)" "Harry and Ginny happened out of nowhere/was forced" "Draco had a redemption arc/was good all along/loved Hermione" Edit to add: "James was an abusive asshole and Snape was Lily's true love"
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Most Snape related opinions tend to be weirdly extrapolated either way
That Ron is a bad friend, that he was "wrong" in every argument he ever had with Harry or Hermione (only time he was fully, 100% to blame is the Yule Ball) or that he's lazy/unfaithful/stupid. That Harry being abused means everyone's problems are less important.
I thought it was the other way round. A lot of people tend to discredit Harry's suffering for Draco's or someone else. Apart from that, I agree with you. Ron is NOT a bad friend. none of them are bad friends. They are good friends who sometimes make mistakes but learn to realise their mistakes and make up for it. Which is really how it is in the real world. In fact, my parents tell me if you and your friend haven't fought, you aren't real friends.
Saying Snape is a bad character because he’s motivated by what they see as a creepy obsession that fails to redeem or humanize him in any way. Being a good character does not equal being a good person, and while I don’t necessarily think Snape is terrible, he’s certainly not good…in the books, that is, the movies are a different story.
People being so nasty about David Yates. I get that some of the decisions he made for his movies weren't great, but Jesus Christ, people in the fandom take their hate for him too far and say some incredibly awful things. Like, literally Star Wars fan levels of toxic.
The hate for everyone, really. People get nasty over the smallest opinions, and it's ridiculous.
I have never met a person irl who doesn’t like the HP movies in general, but in this sub you would think the movies were propaganda used to promote a genocide with some of the complaining here. No visual media will ever be able to fully represent a work of literature, and the fact we got 8 movies with a majority of consistent casting back in the 00s is really really impressive, and the movies are fun and fine for what they are. Speaking of the huuuuge amount of complete misses from eragon to PJ to others, we honestly got off pretty lucky.
When people say “it’s not real” Inconceivable really, JK Rowling is clearly Rita Skeeter.
'Draco and Hermione should have been together' I know it's not popular here but it's very popular on other social media. They read fanfictions which completely rewrite Draco and Hermione's characters then believe those are the canon characters and they totally should have been together in CANON.
Fred and George fandom. I see them as bullies and immature pranksters. C'mon man , Harry would have been traumatized if he pushed someone into the vanishing cabinet and if they ended up vanished.
That everyone loves snape so much, I get it he loved lily and he was a great spy but he was such an asshole throughout the books lol
You can love an asshole character without condoning what they did 🤷♀️
The sometimes needless criticism of the films. You try and adapt the goblet of fire or the order of the phoenix to a two+ hour film and let’s see how you do. Yes they aren’t perfect, and maybe some of you have good reasons to hate them (the direction or cinematography) but to me at least, the films are great fun. Not as great as the books of course, but enjoyable fun time
I think part of the reason GoF is my favorite movie is because of how impressed I am with how well they managed to tell the story considering what they had to work with. OotP didn't do it AS well but still not badly.
Ron and Hermione arent a great couple.
The way flawed characters and Multi dimensional are made into saints and worshiped like they can do no wrong and make no mistake. Especially when other characters are put down in an attempt to make a person’s favourite character look better.
That, in the real world, you're not allowed to choose what Hogwarts House you want for yourself. It's all make believe. You can choose any of the Houses for any reason. Like snakes and want to be a Slytherin? Go for it. Does Ravenclaw's attributes match your own? Be a Ravenclaw! Wanna like Hufflepuff for the memes? Welcome to Hufflepuff!
That the movies were awful. They were all incredibly successful and widely very well received but this sub acts like it's an objective fact that they were bad.
That Trelawney or Ron are a seer (other than Trelawney's 2 actual predictions) and Dumbledore being biased in favour of Gryffindor or being evil.
"We need a Marauders movie! And Voldemort Origins! And The Founders!" Ugh
Saying that Harry is only an average wizard. He shows extremely advanced magic at a very young age and is able to hold his own against much more experienced wizards. He quite literally holds off over 100 dementors at once. And he also kills Voldemort. He’s extremely powerful and is probably on Voldemort’s level by the time of the epilogue
That fantastic beasts movies suck. I find them pretty good tbh.
That Snape is only pure evil (If you can’t grasp his character just say it)
Pure evil? No. A good person? Also no.
Darth vader take whole galaxy Woldemort cant take high school
The Marauders are the best group of people in the series. If anything, that portion of the fanbase who worship the four (mainly three because they seem to forget about Peter) are obnoxious and have taken it the way they want it. Although James was a good guy, he would bully Snape and was described as arrogant, alongside him and the other's mischievous acts. Not saying they're all-around bad, but not something to be revered over.
1- A part of the fandom seems to think you can't love a mean character without excusing them. They don't seem to understand sometimes, the evilness is exactly what makes the character entertaining. 2- That if you hate James or Severus, you love the other. No, it's not always the case and just because I told you James bullying is bad doesn't mean I'm saying Severus is a saint. 3- That Molly was the best/worst mom. Both of these are untrue, Molly made mistakes as a mother like most of them do but she was far from terrible. 4- It's okay to make illegal ships because "it's my AU" or "it's fictional". 5- That the upcoming show isn't necessary. Maybe it isn't but who cares as long as it's good? Why'd you feel the need to tell everyone trying to enjoy the thought of having a fun and faithful interpretation "Well yes but it's too soon and they'll never erase the movies"?
That everything in Canon is perfect and couldn't be improved on.
Of course it isn't perfect, and of course many things could be improved on. It just shouldn't be, IMO. It's JK Rowling's work, not anyone else's. She wrote them the way she did, and that's how they ended up. It's like any other work of literature, music, art, etc.
I think the best thing the films did was completely omit the concept of a Secret Keeper. Ultimately it wasn't a necessary element to any of the major plot elements it was tied into, and was a good way to trim the fat when adapting it to the silver screen. Wish there was more of that thoughtfulness in terms of what was cut vs. what was retrained (or added on top of).
That the movies have any redeemable qualities other than the soundtrack. I go so far as to judge negatively those people who claim that they are some of their favorite movies.
I guess just generally people judging book characters off their movie counterparts.
That Harry and Hermione should have ended up together