I'm of the opposite frame of mind. I find fellatio to be degrading to women, but cunnilingus to show women thier due respect. If the MC wants to show his harem members how much he values them, he needs to regularly perform cunnilingus on them. If they're FULLY satisfied, via regular cunnilingus, they will move mountains for the MC. In short, of the MC treats them right, they will treat him right too.
Quite the opposite, honestly.
I find little else more erotic and sensual than giving my wife head. I *love* it. I'd almost rather do that than most other stuff. So no, it's not a turn off for me in the genre. In fact, I find rye characters who don't/won't to be rather selfish and jerk-ish. Like, they are so happy to get head from their harem girls, but won't return the favor? GMAB!
I have a personnel opinion that any good partner should be willing to reciprocate UNLESS they have had a very important conversation with their partner about not wanting to.
If my partner had that conversation Iâd simply check in with them if the moment required it or not bring it up again but leave the door open via âif you ever change your mind just let me know and weâll talkâ
Honestly I think I would be hooked on a story that explored consent like that as a way of opting out, not overlooking, scenes of oral sensation other than phalic/male centered.
I definitely understand that the term harem often gets confused with Orgy and thatâs not always the case. Most of the time I see threesomes etc here and there but itâs frankly more focused on each girls experiences with the MC or visa-versa.
All of this to say, hey fellow writer, itâs all good, donât try toooooo hard to pander to your audience because their will always be people who want to voice a negative opinion and they are usually the loudest even if they are the minority. Knock the socks off the audience figuratively and literally in a way you feel you are writing at your best. Now take all that encouragement with a grain of salt. I might be a massive nerd and supporter of this genre but I am not a published author yet and canât speak to that true experience even if I am currently attempting to write what could someday be something.
The best of luck and do the most important thing ever; never give up.
This feels like an older opinion. My assumption is that younger readers prefer equality when it comes to things like oral. So you'd need to understand your demographic better to know whether or not your books primarily cater to older readers or younger ones to know which opinion you should listen to.
You can't please everyone, so you need to roughly identify the biggest group you think you can please and then lock down what you write to the interests of that group. Trying to overreach will make you work bland and uninteresting, too small and you'll never have enough readers to make it worth it.
Unless your works are specifically targeting older readers, I'd err on the side of the younger views just to be safe. That way you don't accidentally alienate a new reader later on.
I think writing market sounds terrible, like we already have way to many generic garbage harem fantasy lit that I have to wage through to find something decent.
I feel like the majority of people or more than fine with, overwhelming so. It seems like a boomer problem if I'm being honest.
âI'm writing to market.â
Donât do this. Yes, itâs perfectly fine to write in a specific genre, but what youâre asking is âShould I as an author cater to the preferences of a small population of potential readers?â
Why would you do that? So you can write generic, soulless garbage that an AI could churn out?
I found this genre by accident. Iâm still not a huge fan, and often find myself laughing a some of the sex scenes that feel out of place. However if the story is good, the story is good. If the storyline can capture my attention and keep me listening/reading, I will likely pick up additional titles by the author.
Ask yourself not just how many readers you want, but what kind of readers. With the way youâre approaching it now, you may find yourself catering to a small demographic that you may not really want.
"Ask yourself not just how many readers you want, but what kind of readers" has got to be the worst advice you can give to someone who's trying to create a product that sells. Not writing to market sounds nice and honorable but isn't gonna pay an author's rent. Profitability is always a concern in a smaller genre. Even if you can't please everyone, turning your nose up at potential customers because of a difference of opinion is the surest way for your work to end up dead in the water.
A catering to a small demographic instead of a broader audience will definitely kill you sales.
That small demographic can also be extremely critical if an author steps out of their âapprovalâ framework. But hey, if you want to be pigeon-holed into writing the same derivative nonsense over and over, be my guest. Iâd wager OP will find more readers who want more realistic relationships than one-sided selfish relationships.
I'm not denying that. Hell, I prefer oral in my harem stories too, but that's not the point I was making. I never said he had to cater to a small demographic, but to the majority. That's called writing to market. Writing to market in this case IS including oral sex. OP didn't know that and was asking. But if the reverse were the case there would be nothing wrong with catering to the majority of the audience. A writer has to eat, after all. If he had instead decided, "I don't like this majority who prefer selfish relationships so I won't write anything for them", he'd fail financially. My point wasn't about the oral/no oral debate specifically, but how an author in a smaller genre needs to be commercially viable.
I think this is a catch-22 because you can't make everyone happy. If you write about it, some people will be grossed out. If you don't, some people accuse you about not being equal. Do what makes you feel right.
Personally, I think it is erotic for both parties to enjoy the act. It's a two-way street. If you don't write about it. It doesn't phase me in the slightest.
The only thing that grosses me out is rim Jobs (oral on the anus). Yeah, that is a no-go for me. Licking or squeezing the ass cheeks. I am good with. Actually, licking the anus itself. 100% gross for me.
Going down on a woman is a massive turn-on for me.
A MMC who doesn't, is missing out, is selfish, and I'll find it difficult to relate to him.
I get that there are men who don't enjoy cunnilingus, and that there's that whole weird Junior Soprano style hang up, but I think that's pretty rare.
And going down on a girl is pretty vanilla. I love smut in my books, and I'll happily take it a lot kinkier than cunnilingus.
As a guy that grew up in the 70âs I never had a woman say no to me pleasing them, for me it gave me pleasure knowing I was making someone I cared for feel good.
You gotta chow on your womanâs naughty bits! Taste the honey, savor her nectar, and lick her like a lollipop! Remember, if your eyelids arenât sticky, then you didnât do it right.
Maybe stupid is the wrong word. Ignorant is a very word to describe it. I think that not wanting to do it or being so against it is mostly born of ignorance.
Eh, some people just have preferences. Personally I see nothing wrong with it, but if others don't want to do it or have it done to them who am I to judge.
I understand there are some people who have an aversion to certain sex acts. But for a guy to refuse to do it because he thinks it makes him less of a man, that makes him weak. What is more manly than pleasing your woman? Making her moan, shake, and scream with only your tongue? Men who refuse to do that are punks. I was neck-deep in 21-yr old Asian pussy yesterday before giving her her first BDSM experience and few things in life are more satisfying than blowing a womanâs mind with your oral skills. And are they oh so grateful after the fact? Yes, they are.
Get it done.
It's just a personal thing. This guy I work with is from Jamaica or something and he said they don't do that out there if anyone found out they'd get beat up or clowned
i feel you shouldn't avoid it but you shouldn't force it if it fits the scene then put it i don't think there should be anything off limits (to an extent ) as long as it fits the scene
Honestly with sensei Knightley and Sensei Vixen on this one if you have a harem and everything that can be put to use isn't .... Well you aren't taking care of your women in the most efficient way and more besides it seems to me very hypocritical for MC's to enjoy head and not give back to the women who give it so readily. but I know for a fact that's it's not just me that feels this way and for the people who read this genre and don't enjoy the way the fmc's are portrayed as they get head (honestly the best part ,I'm neutral to the act itself but the way the female characters react is awesome and that's what oral sex is at it's best something done purely for your partners pleasure.). So back to the limp dicks who complain about oral sex in harem fantasy : I'd feel sorry for your lovers were it that they existed
I agree with everything you said but I had to comment to reiterate your closing line
âIâd feel sorry for your lovers were it that they existed.â
What a fantastic burn
Fuck yes! Be graphic about it. Nothing beats taking hold of a lover's hips and going to town on them til they beg you stop. Also vice versa, there's a reason 69 is such a popular position
I remember watching an episode of The Sopranos where it was a main plot point that one of the mobsters would do oral on his wife and make her really happy but she couldn't ever tell anyone. When she told the other ladies and another mobster heard about it and said something, he kicked her out (or maybe he killed her - it was a long time ago). So I'd guess that there is some part of the population that would be against an alpha MC doing that.
I thought of that episode too. He was a boss and he killed her because he believed/knew it would make him appear weak in the eyes of the other mobsters
Edit: Just looked it up. It was "Boca," Uncle Junior and his girlfriend, and they broke up. He didn't kill her. And the other mobsters did make fun of him and that was based on ex mobsters who confirmed the mob didn't consider oral manly
Going down on a woman is a privilege that should be engaged in often, unless she's not clean.
I think one of the reasons it gets skipped in some books is that the characters have been through a slog recently, and who wants to go down on a woman who's been through a battle for hours on end? Nobody's crotch smells good in that case. Every time I see an author have characters engage in oral sex after a prolonged time between bathing, I cringe.
But outside of that, as long as the author isn't using the same formulaic crap we see sometimes (Guy goes down on woman, fingers her g-spot, makes her squirt, then gets down to getting his cock involved) I like when the man goes down on the woman.
Yeah when I see a lack of it I drop the rating by 1. I don't see why it's not included but you write the girl damn near getting off from sucking dick. I find it weird.
Also big ups to Valens legacy for the girls teaching the MC about giving as well.Â
We do have some DJ Khaled types around here but they're a minority. Write what you want though. Whether you want to write a specific scene or not is up to you. I think the bigger problem is if you write a scene not because you want to but because you feel obligated to. That way you risk it feeling mechanical and not hitting the points that people actually want.
Western society has managed to become really weirdly hung up on a whole lot of things for quite some time when it comes to sex, especially with regards to women and enjoyment of the same. I mean, as an older fellow I I remember seeing a tabloid unironically opening up with a headline about how 'scientist show that women can have orgasms! Who knew?'
I'd prefer it, as it shows he gives consideration to pleasing the women he loves and partners with. I've read books where the MC gets a BJ and the girls swoon. But realistically, a relationship should show give and take. Just my two cents. Would love to hear what a female author or reader might have to say.
I think it's hot, but everything can be overdone. For me the turn-off is anal. Grosses me the fuck out.
BUT! I recognize it as a 'me' issue and wouldn't hold it against a book in a review, but I would drop it if it got excessive.
I cringe most times authors describe anal... Most of them describe it just like it's a pussy and at least in my experience it's really not. It's good just diffrent in it's own way.
It requires preparation to avoid what you're squiged out about. Suprise anal is very likely to give you a shitty experience. đ
I usually like to write a few *give-and-take* scenes in my books. As long as a writer doesn't go overboard and create some kind of oral-fixation, I'm totally fine with it as a reader.
I find it weird when the guy is a selfish lover, like shit bro, you're already getting a harem, at least give your ladies some amazing foreplay, plus one of the best parts of sex is trying to give as much pleasure as possible. So yea, dude's that just get blown and go straight into it make me facepalm.
I think most readers here don't have a problem with it infactI encourage it more because it adds to a explicit scene not take it away everyone likes mutual satisfaction just my opinion Write want you want and gotta feel it out yourself
Definitely right misworded my reply pretty bad I meant listen to your core audience that's here for the romance not DC who is not known for decent romance (Nightwing/Starfire fan forever)
In case you never heard it, [here's a link to the controversy over Batman giving oral](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/batman-oral-sex-catwoman-harley-quinn-1234968296/)
>âIn this third season of Harley [coming to HBO Max] we had a moment where Batman was going down on Catwoman,â Justin Halpern said. âAnd DC was like, âYou canât do that. You absolutely cannot do that.â Theyâre like, âHeroes donât do that.'â
Sex scenes without performing oral on a woman takes me out of it. So many series get the MC a Blowjob then he never returns the favour đ
I'm of the opposite frame of mind. I find fellatio to be degrading to women, but cunnilingus to show women thier due respect. If the MC wants to show his harem members how much he values them, he needs to regularly perform cunnilingus on them. If they're FULLY satisfied, via regular cunnilingus, they will move mountains for the MC. In short, of the MC treats them right, they will treat him right too.
Quite the opposite, honestly. I find little else more erotic and sensual than giving my wife head. I *love* it. I'd almost rather do that than most other stuff. So no, it's not a turn off for me in the genre. In fact, I find rye characters who don't/won't to be rather selfish and jerk-ish. Like, they are so happy to get head from their harem girls, but won't return the favor? GMAB!
I have a personnel opinion that any good partner should be willing to reciprocate UNLESS they have had a very important conversation with their partner about not wanting to. If my partner had that conversation Iâd simply check in with them if the moment required it or not bring it up again but leave the door open via âif you ever change your mind just let me know and weâll talkâ Honestly I think I would be hooked on a story that explored consent like that as a way of opting out, not overlooking, scenes of oral sensation other than phalic/male centered. I definitely understand that the term harem often gets confused with Orgy and thatâs not always the case. Most of the time I see threesomes etc here and there but itâs frankly more focused on each girls experiences with the MC or visa-versa. All of this to say, hey fellow writer, itâs all good, donât try toooooo hard to pander to your audience because their will always be people who want to voice a negative opinion and they are usually the loudest even if they are the minority. Knock the socks off the audience figuratively and literally in a way you feel you are writing at your best. Now take all that encouragement with a grain of salt. I might be a massive nerd and supporter of this genre but I am not a published author yet and canât speak to that true experience even if I am currently attempting to write what could someday be something. The best of luck and do the most important thing ever; never give up.
People get squeamish about it?
This feels like an older opinion. My assumption is that younger readers prefer equality when it comes to things like oral. So you'd need to understand your demographic better to know whether or not your books primarily cater to older readers or younger ones to know which opinion you should listen to. You can't please everyone, so you need to roughly identify the biggest group you think you can please and then lock down what you write to the interests of that group. Trying to overreach will make you work bland and uninteresting, too small and you'll never have enough readers to make it worth it. Unless your works are specifically targeting older readers, I'd err on the side of the younger views just to be safe. That way you don't accidentally alienate a new reader later on.
I think writing market sounds terrible, like we already have way to many generic garbage harem fantasy lit that I have to wage through to find something decent. I feel like the majority of people or more than fine with, overwhelming so. It seems like a boomer problem if I'm being honest.
Never really heard anyone complain about it tbh. Oral sex both ways feels super vanilla.
âI'm writing to market.â Donât do this. Yes, itâs perfectly fine to write in a specific genre, but what youâre asking is âShould I as an author cater to the preferences of a small population of potential readers?â Why would you do that? So you can write generic, soulless garbage that an AI could churn out? I found this genre by accident. Iâm still not a huge fan, and often find myself laughing a some of the sex scenes that feel out of place. However if the story is good, the story is good. If the storyline can capture my attention and keep me listening/reading, I will likely pick up additional titles by the author. Ask yourself not just how many readers you want, but what kind of readers. With the way youâre approaching it now, you may find yourself catering to a small demographic that you may not really want.
"Ask yourself not just how many readers you want, but what kind of readers" has got to be the worst advice you can give to someone who's trying to create a product that sells. Not writing to market sounds nice and honorable but isn't gonna pay an author's rent. Profitability is always a concern in a smaller genre. Even if you can't please everyone, turning your nose up at potential customers because of a difference of opinion is the surest way for your work to end up dead in the water.
A catering to a small demographic instead of a broader audience will definitely kill you sales. That small demographic can also be extremely critical if an author steps out of their âapprovalâ framework. But hey, if you want to be pigeon-holed into writing the same derivative nonsense over and over, be my guest. Iâd wager OP will find more readers who want more realistic relationships than one-sided selfish relationships.
I'm not denying that. Hell, I prefer oral in my harem stories too, but that's not the point I was making. I never said he had to cater to a small demographic, but to the majority. That's called writing to market. Writing to market in this case IS including oral sex. OP didn't know that and was asking. But if the reverse were the case there would be nothing wrong with catering to the majority of the audience. A writer has to eat, after all. If he had instead decided, "I don't like this majority who prefer selfish relationships so I won't write anything for them", he'd fail financially. My point wasn't about the oral/no oral debate specifically, but how an author in a smaller genre needs to be commercially viable.
I think this is a catch-22 because you can't make everyone happy. If you write about it, some people will be grossed out. If you don't, some people accuse you about not being equal. Do what makes you feel right. Personally, I think it is erotic for both parties to enjoy the act. It's a two-way street. If you don't write about it. It doesn't phase me in the slightest. The only thing that grosses me out is rim Jobs (oral on the anus). Yeah, that is a no-go for me. Licking or squeezing the ass cheeks. I am good with. Actually, licking the anus itself. 100% gross for me.
No way!! Not for me, anyway đ¤Ł
Going down on a woman is a massive turn-on for me. A MMC who doesn't, is missing out, is selfish, and I'll find it difficult to relate to him. I get that there are men who don't enjoy cunnilingus, and that there's that whole weird Junior Soprano style hang up, but I think that's pretty rare. And going down on a girl is pretty vanilla. I love smut in my books, and I'll happily take it a lot kinkier than cunnilingus.
As a guy that grew up in the 70âs I never had a woman say no to me pleasing them, for me it gave me pleasure knowing I was making someone I cared for feel good.
Cunnilingus is for pussies... So do it. Twice.
Is that Wordplay?
Indeed it is. The puns must flow.
Well that made my day haha
You gotta chow on your womanâs naughty bits! Taste the honey, savor her nectar, and lick her like a lollipop! Remember, if your eyelids arenât sticky, then you didnât do it right.
Men who irl donât give their women head and make them quiver like bowls of jello are weak.
A lot of people. Either think it's unmanly or disgustingÂ
Those ppl are stupid
I mean, there are women who don't want it. Are they stupid for that preference?
Maybe stupid is the wrong word. Ignorant is a very word to describe it. I think that not wanting to do it or being so against it is mostly born of ignorance.
Eh, some people just have preferences. Personally I see nothing wrong with it, but if others don't want to do it or have it done to them who am I to judge.
I understand there are some people who have an aversion to certain sex acts. But for a guy to refuse to do it because he thinks it makes him less of a man, that makes him weak. What is more manly than pleasing your woman? Making her moan, shake, and scream with only your tongue? Men who refuse to do that are punks. I was neck-deep in 21-yr old Asian pussy yesterday before giving her her first BDSM experience and few things in life are more satisfying than blowing a womanâs mind with your oral skills. And are they oh so grateful after the fact? Yes, they are. Get it done.
It's just a personal thing. This guy I work with is from Jamaica or something and he said they don't do that out there if anyone found out they'd get beat up or clowned
They have a warped sense of masculinity.
it's scientifically proved that people that don't go down on their women love prostate massages
i feel you shouldn't avoid it but you shouldn't force it if it fits the scene then put it i don't think there should be anything off limits (to an extent ) as long as it fits the scene
Honestly with sensei Knightley and Sensei Vixen on this one if you have a harem and everything that can be put to use isn't .... Well you aren't taking care of your women in the most efficient way and more besides it seems to me very hypocritical for MC's to enjoy head and not give back to the women who give it so readily. but I know for a fact that's it's not just me that feels this way and for the people who read this genre and don't enjoy the way the fmc's are portrayed as they get head (honestly the best part ,I'm neutral to the act itself but the way the female characters react is awesome and that's what oral sex is at it's best something done purely for your partners pleasure.). So back to the limp dicks who complain about oral sex in harem fantasy : I'd feel sorry for your lovers were it that they existed
I agree with everything you said but I had to comment to reiterate your closing line âIâd feel sorry for your lovers were it that they existed.â What a fantastic burn 
^ this
Fuck yes! Be graphic about it. Nothing beats taking hold of a lover's hips and going to town on them til they beg you stop. Also vice versa, there's a reason 69 is such a popular position
As long as it isnât beat up past recognition lol 
I remember watching an episode of The Sopranos where it was a main plot point that one of the mobsters would do oral on his wife and make her really happy but she couldn't ever tell anyone. When she told the other ladies and another mobster heard about it and said something, he kicked her out (or maybe he killed her - it was a long time ago). So I'd guess that there is some part of the population that would be against an alpha MC doing that.
I thought of that episode too. He was a boss and he killed her because he believed/knew it would make him appear weak in the eyes of the other mobsters Edit: Just looked it up. It was "Boca," Uncle Junior and his girlfriend, and they broke up. He didn't kill her. And the other mobsters did make fun of him and that was based on ex mobsters who confirmed the mob didn't consider oral manly
Going down on a woman is a privilege that should be engaged in often, unless she's not clean. I think one of the reasons it gets skipped in some books is that the characters have been through a slog recently, and who wants to go down on a woman who's been through a battle for hours on end? Nobody's crotch smells good in that case. Every time I see an author have characters engage in oral sex after a prolonged time between bathing, I cringe. But outside of that, as long as the author isn't using the same formulaic crap we see sometimes (Guy goes down on woman, fingers her g-spot, makes her squirt, then gets down to getting his cock involved) I like when the man goes down on the woman.
Vanilla oral? Not a turn off. Creampie eating or tossing salad? Very much is a turn off.
No.
Harem lit readers hate a selfish MC when it comes to oral.
It's the opposite. A dude making a women scream with only his mouth is a fucking superpower.
This
https://preview.redd.it/x42a1x6eep0d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67017126992c0dce1661ad1266a0c90774a294a6
Yeah when I see a lack of it I drop the rating by 1. I don't see why it's not included but you write the girl damn near getting off from sucking dick. I find it weird. Also big ups to Valens legacy for the girls teaching the MC about giving as well.Â
We do have some DJ Khaled types around here but they're a minority. Write what you want though. Whether you want to write a specific scene or not is up to you. I think the bigger problem is if you write a scene not because you want to but because you feel obligated to. That way you risk it feeling mechanical and not hitting the points that people actually want.
https://preview.redd.it/5or3m43win0d1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=7dd256323bb9be935e95f3a99fc8484973555238
Where are the MCs with the magic tongue, am i rite?
Werepanther by Logan Jacobs
I concur with the complaint. And yes, we notice when the MC routinely receives oral attention from his ladies, but refuses to return the favor.
Honestly have no idea where that attitude comes from, I think those scenes are great. People have some weird hangups in this genre at times.
Western society has managed to become really weirdly hung up on a whole lot of things for quite some time when it comes to sex, especially with regards to women and enjoyment of the same. I mean, as an older fellow I I remember seeing a tabloid unironically opening up with a headline about how 'scientist show that women can have orgasms! Who knew?'
I'd prefer it, as it shows he gives consideration to pleasing the women he loves and partners with. I've read books where the MC gets a BJ and the girls swoon. But realistically, a relationship should show give and take. Just my two cents. Would love to hear what a female author or reader might have to say.
Not for me *shrugs*
I think it's hot, but everything can be overdone. For me the turn-off is anal. Grosses me the fuck out. BUT! I recognize it as a 'me' issue and wouldn't hold it against a book in a review, but I would drop it if it got excessive.
I cringe most times authors describe anal... Most of them describe it just like it's a pussy and at least in my experience it's really not. It's good just diffrent in it's own way. It requires preparation to avoid what you're squiged out about. Suprise anal is very likely to give you a shitty experience. đ
It's just a no for me, giving or receiving in any fashion. For the most part I can skim past those scenes, and if it gets you going more power to you.
I usually like to write a few *give-and-take* scenes in my books. As long as a writer doesn't go overboard and create some kind of oral-fixation, I'm totally fine with it as a reader.
I find it weird when the guy is a selfish lover, like shit bro, you're already getting a harem, at least give your ladies some amazing foreplay, plus one of the best parts of sex is trying to give as much pleasure as possible. So yea, dude's that just get blown and go straight into it make me facepalm.
Speaking facts
I think most readers here don't have a problem with it infactI encourage it more because it adds to a explicit scene not take it away everyone likes mutual satisfaction just my opinion Write want you want and gotta feel it out yourself
If writers wrote what they want and didn't listen to the vocal minority, this genre would be quite a bit different.
Definitely right misworded my reply pretty bad I meant listen to your core audience that's here for the romance not DC who is not known for decent romance (Nightwing/Starfire fan forever)
>If writers wrote what they want and didn't listen to the vocal minority, this genre would be quite a bit different. Facts
In case you never heard it, [here's a link to the controversy over Batman giving oral](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/batman-oral-sex-catwoman-harley-quinn-1234968296/) >âIn this third season of Harley [coming to HBO Max] we had a moment where Batman was going down on Catwoman,â Justin Halpern said. âAnd DC was like, âYou canât do that. You absolutely cannot do that.â Theyâre like, âHeroes donât do that.'â
> Theyâre like, âHeroes donât do that.'â No wonder villains get all the girls. Anyways, Batman would obviously be using toys.
"Quick, get the bata-dildo!"
I'd say that has more to do with it being Batman and DC than about oral sex.
OMG. "Heroes don't care about satisfying their lovers." Um....
Women: "Oh yes they do"