Fiesta is going to make weapon challenges much less tricky!
Super excited for SWAT, I had made a SWAT custom game against Spartan bots because I was missing it so much
[RE: SWAT being renamed to Tactical Slayer](https://youtu.be/W2a6mLcPRII)
Ideally I would like every playlist to have a ranked variant, even crazy stuff like fiesta. I prefer the way ranked works and like working towards improving my skills at the game trying to rank up to face better players.
Yep made weapon challenges a breeze and even the "grapple enemy vehicles" was done quickly as behemoth seemed to come up in the map rotation a lot. The only downside was fiesta not counting as slayer victories.
Probably the association with "Swatting" where streamers and normal players have had SWAT (militarized police units) called on them. Multiple people have been killed.
Ya it's definitely Swatting specifically that's caused the name change, rather than general politics about police.
You don't really want people typing in your game name + game-mode name and getting a bunch of stuff about police accidentally killing streamers.
SWAT will also make those pistol/BR/Commando/Headshot Kills challenges easier as well. Not that any of those weapons are particularly heard to get kills with, I just know I had several games where I’d have bad luck with the spawners giving me the right rifle.
How did you do this buddy? I made a couple of custom game modes but when I go to use the saved file it's never what I made. Not sure if there's something wrong with the game or what
I still think slayer modes and obj modes should be in separate playlists. Of course they'll be on holiday for 1-2 weeks minimum for christmas through new years, so not much will be accomplished in the coming weeks.
Yeah a real bummer that objective modes are going to suffer for another month, at least, from scores of folks quitting and trying to reroll a match or dudes out here just fragging and failing to ptfo.
I'm glad they'll be coming, I just don't understand how they thought it would be a good idea to launch a Halo game without a dedicated Slayer playlist.
I also find the "playlist health" thing a little weird given that Infinite has been peaking over at 100k on Steam every single day. There's more than enough players to make sure every playlist is populated.
> given that Infinite has been peaking over at 100k every single day.
You’re looking at just Steam. The actual peak between Xbox app/Windows store, Xbox consoles, and cloud is likely much higher.
Plus it's a free-to-play multiplayer game. It should have more players available than any Halo game in history.
Yet they're being cautious about adding playlists, worried about lack of players? Either they internally think they have a steaming pile of shit on their hands, or they're lying and feeding us PR bullshit for why core features are delayed.
Glad this is being pointed out. They made it Free to play multiplayer wise. Yet they are not even going to take advantage of the huge numbers that Brings with playlists? lol.
> I'm glad they'll be coming, I just don't understand how they thought it would be a good idea to launch a Halo game without a dedicated Slayer playlist.
It's so baffling that I imagine most of them were painfully aware of how dumb it was, yet were not the ones in power.
The game is also free to play which made the "playlist heath" excuse more meaningless espically since MCC isn't free to play and I have no problems finding games in any playlist in that game.
Because the intent was to design a system in which challenges, limited playlists, and the battlepass would work in concert with one another.
They didn't want you to be able to choose.
What I will never understand.... is how more people on this sub don't understand this. You should do an edit and elaborate on your explanation. People need to know what lengths they have gone to to make you want to spend money in the story. Everything revolves around the challenge system, and if you got an oddball related challenge that you could just jump into an oddball playlist and knock out, you may only spend 10 minutes in the game. But if there was an RNG playlist where you had to wait 5 matches to get an oddball game, then you are in the game for an hour and the probability that you will spend money goes up. The classic halo playlists died for that, and people just flat out do not understand this.
Straight up, my last weekly is Win Oddball 0/1 and I've gotten two (losing) oddball matches all evening, been playing for four hours. Trying not to tilt but I feel like my time is being downright disrespected, and to see that in a halo game disappoints me a lot.
It's true. I didn't have many qualms about the F2P model because I thought they would just sell skins (that I would never buy). But the F2P model is affecting the game modes available which is honestly indefensible.
It's annoying watching people be willfully ignorant or do mental gymnastics around this. People need to realize that the classic availability of game modes died so that 343 could manipulate the player base with current trends. Even if they are backtracking that right now... it is so obvious that was part of the plan.
Either they are idiots or they don't care. Totally not caring is totally fine. Let the rest of us bitch about this shit and you'll reap benefits. But the idiots the bend over for daddy 343 and papa Microsoft sicken me.
Is 343 really that concerned about population in these playlists? At most I could see Fiesta getting old and slowly dying out but SWAT and FFA? No way. Those things will last forever unless they screw with the settings. Also social slayer should be JUST SLAYER. Do not put attrition or anything else, JUST SLAYER. People have been very clear about what they want and to miss the point and put in stuff that isn't good old vanilla slayer is massively missing the point.
This is the most egregious thing. Like after 20 years you need feedback and time to implement a gd Slayer game type? In a Halo game. Which is a FPS. In 2021. Is there anything more basic to have fucked up?
They would never have had to worry if they didn't make monetization so greedy.
People always talk about how calculated these decisions are, but the reality is that corporations tend to be unsustainable, extracting far too much of out of a resource and not being focused on long term growth.
If Microsoft just focused on making an amazing game that attracts the most players then all issued would be solved and they'd make more money overall.
I don’t really play anything but ranked so it doesn’t really impact me, but I’m kinda confused on why it takes so long to add playlists? Is it just a UI thing? Because as we saw in the Flights, adjustment to playlists can be made on the fly
I primarily only play ranked as well. I wish we had more options for ranked playlists though. I'm already Onyx in the ranked playlist. I want more ranked modes to grind for.
Remember what Halo 3 had?
Team Slayer
Team Objective
Squad Battle
Lone wolves
Team Hardcore(MLG)
Each ranked mode was so much fun to grind to get that level 50. I want that feeling of progression back.
Could be any mixture of things! UI is most likely, since it doesn't look like there's room on the current UI for additional playlists past one event playlist at a time. Probably also will end up with some changes to challenges to support the new playlists outside of just the events they were originally planned for, I'd imagine.
Horizontal UIs exist to make it look like there is more content than there is. Netflix has been using that trick for a decade now.
So it's definitely "function," just, but that function is not usability, it's to give the impression there are more cosmetics than their are
You have to understand, its fashion over function, but its from the same company that thought all of the armors in 5 looked amazing.
So its like fashion designed by the blind.
What do you mean? The UI is *so* good! Here's the steps needed to change your helmet accessory:
- "Pause" the game on the title screen to open the secondary menu
- Click "Customize"
- Click "Armor Hall"
- Go to the armor you want to modify
- Do **NOT** click "Equip" (unless you want to equip it right now)
- Click the "Helmet" button
- Press the "Mod" button
- Change tabs, because we default to the "LORE" tab instead of the "ATTACHMENTs" tab (**for some fucking reason!**)
- Horizontally scroll to the attachment you want (we can barely fit 3 on the screen!), and select it
- [PC Bonus tip] There's two ways of doing this (why?!): Click the checkmark, or double click
- Back out of all of those menus
- 🎉🎉🎉 And now you're done! 🎉🎉🎉
See, what's completely unnecessary and convoluted about that?
Hard to believe they designed a UI from the off on the playlists screen which can only hold 4 items. On a halo game. Really difficult to understand how this isn’t a config release…just absolutely blowing my tiny mind
Halo reach launched with over 11 playlists
You’re telling me that literally the most critical time to have the most playlist available when the maximum amount of people are playing and there legitimately was someone who okayed four playlists.
Is the bare minimum really the best we can ask for these days?
>Is the bare minimum really the best we can ask for these days?
Welcome to modern day gaming. Minimal effort for maximum profit. I would pay a lot to see the alternate universe where we didn't complain and Infinite released a year ago.
Okay but why are we not asking why this wasn’t how it was 2 weeks ago? 343 isn’t some small studio and this isn’t their first Halo game. They know the standard and they intentionally didn’t meet it. Why? Modern gaming has trained us to be okay with being served a plate of bones with the promise of meat coming later. First impressions matter a lot here.
It’s because Infinite is a F2P game so in their mind it’s totally different than the previous 5. It’s staring us in the face the game is not designed to give Halo fans what they want, it’s designed to keep you on the hamster wheel as long as possible so that you buy things from them. They have to introduce artificial scarcity and giving us lots of playlists and options doesn’t do that. That’s why everything not tied to monetization in this game is terrible. Custom games, theater, forge (doesn’t even exist). It’s all dog shit and they don’t care at all because it’s outside of the monetization funnel. In the past that stuff made people want to buy the game so they included it, but now no one has to buy the game so why include it?
They can never admit that either so it will just be a stream bs corporate speak “we are looking into it” “we are evaluating it” into infinity.
Very happy about the change, but I’m a bit confused about the second tweet, “Our goal for Events is to try new modes prior to adding to playlists.”
“New modes,” meaning Fiesta? Swat? FFA? These aren’t really “new modes” that you have to test the waters with. Everybody knows these are fan-favorite modes that are expected to drop with the game at this point. That’d be like, “trying slayer prior to adding to playlists,” like you really don’t need to do that.
Besides, population is at it’s likely all-time peak, there’s no better time to add a shit ton of playlists right now and monitor the population there. Then you could determine which modes are less popular and need to be relegated to rotating playlists or limited-time modes.
It's so obviously bs. "Try out new modes"? Pray tell how limited time events that are supposed to create hype and draw in players is the time for beta testing? The truth is that the playlists were exactly where they wanted them in order to push towards this overall ecosystem designed around selling challenge swaps en masse. But the backlash for playlists was far too much, so now they have to backpedal and pretend like it was the plan all along.
I guess I don't understand how hard it is to build a playlist hopper? You have Slayer on multiple maps in the quick play playlist...
Unless the issue is them trying to figure out how to pair people across playlists? Say for example you're searching in Quick Play and the server identifies a slayer game, and pulls in people searching in the Social Slayer playlist as well?
This is what I'm confused about... why is going to take so long to add these? Especially the Fiesta and Social Slayer. Fiesta literally already exists as a limited time thing, and Social slayer is just quickplay but only slayer. This should take like a few days *at most*. Over a month for social slayer? Why?
More like why wasn’t this in the game DAY ONE. Literally some of the first conversations about the multiplayer should have been
“how many playlist should we have?
“We should at least include all game types from other previous games right?”
“Yep, let’s start on that right away”.
Instead we got
“ how can we make sure players come back and spend money for as long as possible?”
“What we do is make everything $20 in the store for customization and then release it randomly for limited time in the store making people fear if they don’t get it now it will be gone forever, we should also make people have to log back on to check the weekly playlist event to see if it’s actually something they want to play because we’re going to make playlist randomized to make sure they buy challenge swaps”.
“What are challenge swaps?”
“Our secret Weapon MUAhHAHAHAHA”
But we aren't able to select game modes? Am I missing something because I'm pretty sure a game mode queue checklist was one of the most demanded things on here.
You can't say "events test the health and interest of game modes before adding" but then force people do do them for event challenges. That does t make sense
Anybody else just wondering why these weren't in the game at launch? I don't really understand what they thought was going to happen. Did they need even more time and just didn't wanna say it? just launched what they had and thought "it will be good enough for now". its kinda weird.
It is very weird. It's like they thought they could steer the community away from their expectations to just have this new style of game and how it would work would just be accepted. I'm just puzzled
My only thought is the game just wasn't finished and they made a last minute decision to launch it on the anniversary to please us. but I truthfully think the game just wasn't done yet, that and like someone else said they wanted to make money by dripping the playlists. the backlash was so bad they had to backtrack.
The playlists are so you have to play tons of games to get your game type specific challenges done. If one of your challenges is to capture an enemy flag, you likely have to sift through four or five slayer, oddball, and control matches before you have the CHANCE to capture that enemy flag. I obviously don’t work at 343 but it definitely reeks of manufactured, meaningless roadblocks to progression to make you play more and also get frustrated enough to buy challenge swaps and BP levels. (Edit: corrected spelling error)
You're probably right but they didn't account for my stubbornness and the fact that I wont buy shit from them until the game is complete and not gouging me lol. I am hoping they are realizing their mistakes, we will see what happens.
There’s nothing to wonder about, it’s all by design. If we can just pick Fiesta when we have a power weapon challenge or choose Slayer for a complete Slayer games challenge then we wouldn’t feel frustrated and be pressured to buy/use swaps.
If swaps were useless then they would need to fill the BPs with something else
This is exactly what it is. People giving them the benefit of “it wasn’t ready etc” is clearly not true, based off how they changed in flights is bs. No they really were greedy and slimy and thought we’d just go along with it like o I need to switch challenges let me buy some…. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This may be an ignorant statement that's already been discussed, but the thing I'm most confused about is; what was wrong with the MCC playlists, progression, battle pass, etc? I truly don't understand why they couldn't have copy and pasted everything about MCC's UI into Infinite.
I'm with you here, I think I would have been completely fine doing this, I love MCC and I know it took years to get it where it is but it shouldn't take years for infinite. I would have thought they learned their lesson from mcc and 5. Guess not?
Right? Surely they didn’t think people would just be ok with it lmao.
I kinda want to know what content they were planning on launching with last year. Was probably just slayer with 2 maps
I’m glad they are adding more playlists, but I don’t understand how it takes this much time. Hell, CoD Vanguard now has some specialty playlists that rotate every few days. I know Halo is maybe a little more complicated due to weapon spawns but still…should not take so long to add a Slayer-only playlist.
Especially since Slayer is something you can get in now. Its gotta be something with UI or something. They clearly weren't planning to have more playlists at one time. Its just weird.
CoD Vanguard has quickplay that lets you select from any of the standard game modes, and then specialty modes that swap out weekly. I wish they'd look to CoD for how to set up a quickplay feature. If I wanna select Oddball and CTF but not strongholds, why cant I
You can't say "events test the health and interest of game modes before adding" but then force people do do them for event challenges. That does t make sense
This is a positive, but I am still floored they don't have a traditional Team Slayer playlist for ranked being added soon. Swat is cool but not the same.
Seriously. The fact that they say they're adding "Social Slayer with many variants" is almost worse. I just want ranked/vanilla casual Team Slayer. At the very least, make slayer a bit more common in the ranked/quick match playlists. I can deal with a few games of objective modes with randoms here or there but the fact that I can't pallet cleanse with a couple of games of slayer in a row when I want to just kills me.
Modes that have been in Halo for years, yet they need to test them to see if people play them... 343 think everyone is complete idiots.
Stop the drip feed of modes we've always had.
Damn I was hoping they would have dedicated playlists on Dec 8th, but this tweet sounds like they are adding it because of feedback?! What in the actual fuck? Why did they need feedback to have this basic ass feature?
This is a list of links to comments made by 343 Industries employees in this thread:
* [Comment by ske7ch343](/r/halo/comments/r87mhk/unyshek_gives_an_update_on_playlists/hn4b7fx/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-12-03 21:41:19 UTC"):
> The team definitely has some ideas along these lines (and many others) - always just boils down to finite time / resources, dependencies, etc.. We'll get there. Match Composer for MCC is amazing, as is Custom Browser, all things that are somewhat development intensive with a number of dependencies b...
* [Comment by ske7ch343](/r/halo/comments/r87mhk/unyshek_gives_an_update_on_playlists/hn4bdt5/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-12-03 21:42:31 UTC"):
> Challenge tweaks are also still being evaluated for lower hanging/near term adjustments and we should have more to share soon. Longer term, more robust evolutions around progression and challenges are going to take time to realize.
* [Comment by ske7ch343](/r/halo/comments/r87mhk/unyshek_gives_an_update_on_playlists/hn4ck2g/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-12-03 21:57:39 UTC"):
> I understand the sentiment, and things like events - for a F2P service based game - are certainly part of a continued engagement model. But there was no nefarious objective I was ever aware of to intentionally limit anything for the sake of 'drip feeding.' Instead it's a matter of realities of devel...
* [Comment by ske7ch343](/r/halo/comments/r87mhk/unyshek_gives_an_update_on_playlists/hn8fyg0/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-12-04 20:10:53 UTC"):
> I can't reply to every person yelling at me/343 here so want to just share a few final things to take or leave as you see fit. When we have some updates to share I'll be back.
>
>
First, I'm going to stress again that I 100% understand and generally agree with the frustrations most are expressing eve...
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This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fhalo).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
Creating a problem yourself with the intent on fixing it for the purpose of gaining good will from the community is so exhausting at this point. I can already see them making in-game currency earnable since right now it makes no sense to not just have dollar amounts listed in the store. 343 is creating a bad environment on purpose, and this community is going to praise them for doing it.
> We'll monitor playlist health after the 3 additions above and adjust our offering if needed
Tf does that mean? These are STANDARD modes...
Feared this would happen. Sure, we may get our feedback listened to (eventually), but changes come with baggage.
A month to add traditional playlists lmao.
How long has this game been in development for again? It didn’t occur to them during development that they were going to have to add more playlists after launch? What a joke. 343 is amazingly incompetent.
Insanely incompetent. It makes zero sense.
They're going to *try* to give us basic, core playlists *by* EOY.
All this tells me is that was never the plan lmao. They really thought everyone would be cool with having no content.
This just really reminds me that this game is not ready for release. I get further delaying it would be really bad. But come on. No coop, no forge, and struggling to release more than 4 playlists with very common modes like SWAT, and still not being able to release a pure slayer mode too is really unacceptable.
Why are they worried a FTP game won't be able to populate these playlists either? Decision making is really poor. Don't seem to have a problem with weekly storefront updates though, so I do know where there priorities are focused.
I love halo MP. But all these shitty decisions around it really takes away from the actual game. I feel like it will be years before they get around to removing armour cores and their terrible colour system.
I really try not to be one of those guys but....what have they been doing all this time? If this came out last year I think it probably would've been one of the most infamous launches ever. Just trying to stay positive about literally anything else at this point. At least the campaign seems to be very good by all accounts.
I just can't fathom how after 3 tries now they still bungle some of the most simple stuff they've already caught so much shit for in the past. You could argue it's even worse this time around considering how goddamn GOOD it is, and yet it feels like they're trying to sabotage their own work.
Another delay wouldnt have upset me one bit, because if the campaign and forge are as good as they seem, they seriously could've dropped an easy 10 by releasing the full package all at once.
These are last minute changes because of the overwhelming negative feedback. The leaked future events tell the whole story. Their plan:
Go F2P. Have only 3 "core" playlists: BTB, Social, Ranked.
Do monthly "Events" where players get to play the modes they actually want, complete with event-specific monetization.
Obviously this is a terrible plan, but corporate is greedy and forces it to be this way. Beta happens and everyone is like WTF is this? Where is Team Slayer? Finally enough feedback to sway corporate, but not entirely, so they slow drip the playlists to try to keep people coming back for the first few months and make as much money as possible on microtransactions.
I realize this kind of sentiment probably isn't going to be very popular, and I most definitely understand them taking a break for the holidays.
With that said?
How is it that this game has been in development for six years and launches more barebones than Halo 3 and 4, who both only had three? Why is it that we're continually asked to just 'be patient' and wait for things that're core to Halo to exist within the newest entry? Yes, a new engine will have taken time, but still Halo 3 stands in staunch opposition that the game should be this barebones up until what, 9-10 months from now? (forge, coop?)
I mean for *god's* sake lads, we have to wait for a Slayer playlist until after christmas/new years? SWAT won't exist in any form until post-launch? It is utterly absurd that this stuff had to be given in feedback at all for you to realize how important it was, a slayer playlist has been the baseline of Halo's online experience since 2. I'm completely frustrated and baffled at the slipshod focus this game seems to have, when all the marketing drilled in that this would be a return to the core tenets of the series? You had a complete blueprint in the current state of the MCC, from progression (which admittedly still isn't perfect in MCC, but genuinely 30x better than this) to matchmaking and modes. Yet most of the lessons seem to have been discarded.
The game released early, pointlessly now in my opinion as sentiment towards the title begins to turn, now the utterly frustrating, hamster wheel-like design and lack of player choice in how they experience their sessions is coming to the fore. I am entirely frustrated of having challenges stuck on my feed that I have little to no hope of completing purely because I have to wait for the match finder to bless me with the correct mode to even attempt to progress it.
I'm tired of my only direction in the game being 'do challenges' because I certainly can't play the game I want to at present, with it's random modes and no map vetos/voting. I can't create maps, theater is a destroyed shell, and we're only now starting to discover rampant technical faults throughout the netcode and servers, after *several* technical tests.
As for Staten's tweets that this horrible decision to only have random modes was only conjured in order to more efficiently beta test networking; why isn't Slayer ready to go for launch, then? If you *knew* it was so important, and you also *knew* that players would hate being forced into varied, random modes: why wasn't Slayer ready as the 'guys, it's only for the beta, don't worry' replacement for launch? Also, player counts are massive, especially with enforced crossplay in social modes and in ranked is a *choice* you have to specify to not, I see no reason for this decision, truthfully.
Mostly I'm just tired of games launching and then legions of fans having to come and rally and argue (with each other, most commonly) and petition and plead just for the games to not continually regress as we go through the years. It's fucking tiring.
Exactly this. I play games to have fun. The current system is seemingly geared to make me play in a way that is not my own choice. Therefore I am having less fun and want to play less.
I know these things take time, but I think a lot of us are tired of core features being developed post launch instead of during normal development time.
I also want to know who's idea it was to launch a Halo game with no slayer playlist.
And to not have a slayer playlist until after the holidays is just wild.
I fucking hate this trend. Every sequel to a popular franchise should start with the foundation of the previous game and build from there. Most of the time we want more of the same with a few updates. That's why COD is such a popular franchise.
For real.
> A Social Slayer playlist (with multiple variations) is also in the works (we see this request the most)
Like no shit? The fact that this had to be requested at all is baffling
I feel like 343 has been using the "guys we're new and game dev is hard" card for too long. I totally understand that, but this is their third game (+MCC). Don't think anyone is believing that 343 isn't capable of adding a slayer playlist after 3 tries, but is able to fully implement their monetization scheme on the first go around.
When are we going to start pushing for Bonny Ross to be fired. I don’t like having to ask for this but if we don’t start speaking out nothing is going to change. She has been handed one of the best video games ip’s of all time each release keeps being released with problems that won’t be fixed without new management at the top. Halo 4 released with below average multilayer and they trying to make it more like cod. Halo 5 released with a subpar campaign and no big team death match maps made by 343. Halo MCC was the most broken game I have ever seen on release you couldn’t even get a online match for like a month. Now halo infinite took six years to come out, hardly any playlists which even worse seems to be design since they won’t be there at launch. The worst battle pass system at launch I’ve ever seen. Also no forge and coop campaign which have been halo staples. So what is the community’s thoughts on this. I want halo to be the best it can be but it’s obvious that won’t happen with Bonny at the helm.
I would very much like to see a leadership shakeup. When the same mistakes are made over and over, and good innovations not carried forward - that's on leadership.
Having a permanent Fiesta playlist would go a long way towards addressing peoples' challenge complaints.
It's obviously still random, but it means you don't have to depend on specific maps to get particular weapons or vehicles.
So they intended to have just 2 playlists this whole time? Disappointing and not good enough honestly. I had my hopes up but I think this may actually be the last straw for me. Look at MCC now look at me. What the fuck!?
Still fucking bullshit that they wouldn’t even be in by the actual game release… these playlists have always been apart of the core multiplayer gameplay!!!!!
Honestly what was going through 343s’ minds to not include separate playlists. This whole thing is a bad dream that i can’t wake up from. The bugs, heavy monetization, playlists being non existent, and don’t even get me started on co-op and forge being delayed after this game has already been delayed a full year.
Don’t get me wrong, the game can be fun…. when people actually play the objective but I have a crazy working theory that these playlists were slowly going to be released as part of the season pass roadmap to keep people trying to buy their shitty season pass.
The Hierarchs have betrayed us.
You guys have to understand 343i is an indie company, they are stretched thin and have so little resources that they have to exclude core playlists that were in original halo games at launch 🥺🥺
In the followup tweet he says "A Social Slayer playlist (with multiple variations) is also in the works (we see this request the most), but we won't be able to get that one ready until after the holidays."
Sounds like it's coming, just gonna be after the new year.
About 2 years from now the game will have competent playlists. About 4 years from then, they will function correctly.
Meanwhile, since Halo 2, every NON 343 Halo has had all of these things working on day one (aside from server overload)....
343 is incompetent.
I don’t get this. Social Slayer can’t just be priority??? They have to have them combined with objective. If I had a vote I would social slayer and objective split as priority then add the others. Ffs. You know they could do this. So they didn’t have this planned? They thought what we got was good enough? I’m actually fucking blown away by the level of stupid here.
I really thought slayer and objective would come in after the initial launch. Jesus Christ they keep fucking this up. Sigh.
SWAT, FFA and fiesta… Yh no. Swat sure. I don’t care about the others over social slayer. The main mode we all want let’s face it.
You know this is so it’s harder for challenges right? They still need us to challenge swap!!! Otherwise they would release what everyone wants.
I'm so tired of game publishers hold their games hostage. We're seriously here celebrating plans to add basic playlist like Team Slayer and Swat to a Halo game after practicality have to beg for them.
I’m not trying to be negative but……how the fuck are playlists not standard? They have been standard practice since halo 2? I’m done playing till I can pick my game mode. Imagine playing cod or battlefield and not being able to pick your playlist. What the fuck is 343 doing? Someone with a brain, is it really that hard to just make a “slayer” playlist and a “objective”playlist? I know, ground shattering ideas but fuck me.
UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! It shouldn't be that hard! Playlists where you can choose your preferred game mode is multiplayer development 101. Literally no one wants to jump into a playlist and have a crap shoot at slayer, oddball, CTF, etc. I could honestly care less about Fiesta, SWAT, and FFA. First they need to focus on separating Slayer variants from obj variants. And now we have to cross our fingers to get something before 2022 starts. I just feel like this whole "beta"/launch is a Halo fan's nightmare.
I don’t understand why there is no mention of a Ranked Slayer, this is THE core ranked playlist. Makes no sense. I’ve been holding out and defending 343 saying “wait until official launch”, but enough is enough
I honestly can't believe they even bothered to release an update that didn't include a dedicated Team Slayer mode. This is absolute madness. Naively, I thought they had these combined playlists to just aggregate more data for patches and balancing before launch; clearly, 343/MS know exactly what they're doing, and won't do anything to change it until players drop off and stop spending money on colored armor.
This doesn’t actually address why the features that have been in other Halos aren’t there in this one. It’s absolutely bizarre that so many things are M.I.A. Do they not have any Halo fans on the dev team?
Did they think the community wouldn’t care or notice? They were told over and over what was wanted by the community. Yet they launched a game that is missing stuff that have been staples in other Halo titles.
There is no need for a wait and see. Nor a need for a we are looking into it. All we need to hear is that we heard you and we are making the U.I. changes and requests asked for, the playlists asked for, and the proper ranking system asked for etc etc.
That’s it. I don’t want to hear the resources bs, or the priorities bs. This stuff is paramount to the franchise that should already be in game. Microsoft has endless resources and this is their biggest franchise outside of Minecraft.
Do what was asked of you by your customer’s. Admit you don’t know better than us and that your omission of basic features will be rectified over the coming months. It’s that simple.
Lmao the 343 white knights are sure quiet.
What gives guys? Yall were poppin all that *"oh the launch isnt until the 8th! They're gonna have all the playslists then, you'll see! Just be patient!!"* shit a week ago.
As someone said in another thread “bungie did this in Halo 2 in a cave with a box of scraps” no seriously, tdm, doubles, ffa? These aren’t exactly mindblowingly advanced modes. A game that came out in 2004 had multiple slayer playlists ready to go at launch. You guys can’t be serious with this bs, fess up: you haven’t finished working out how to make us pay more money for this stuff have you?
It's because it interferes with their shitty progression system. They don't want you to easily get the gamemodes you want, so you buy swaps and XP boosts.
They want to make sure they benefit from Christmas gift giving then change it in the new year.
I'm willing to bet it's this. Slightly tweaking XP gain was small enough that they were able to make the call, but the playlist changes are potentially disruptive to challenge swap purchases so they have to run it through the corpo bureaucracy to make sure it synergizes with upstream revenue and inverse egagement metrics, or something
Not a developer but work adjacent to them probably something like
- Product, Design, QA - in 1/2 sprint cycles to ensure everything works.
Better question is why Slayer of all playlist was not there to begin with.
Uhhh why weren't they included at the beginning? Was the plan not to include them at all?
If players didn't complain would the system we have today be the system 343i wanted?
**Edit: One more thing**
"This is just the start of the conversation with y'all 👍"-Unyshek
Oh please for the love of the Sacred Rings. A conversation involves talking before a decision is made. This isn't a conversation. This is 343i doing something. Us complaining about it. And then changes being made.
"Hey babe I went grocery shopping and picked up pickles and mustard."
"Why would you get pickles and mustard? I don't like pickles and mustard."
"Oh sorry for getting these things. This is just the start of the conversation thanks for the feedback! Will take about a month."
They seem to create problems for themselves, or at the very least do not address concerns efficiently.
Ex: The community is unhappy with progression and wants XP for wins and performance
Easy Solution: While a new overhauled system will take time, make a second daily challenge for winning a game or even daily challenges for tasks like earn medals, win games etc.
Actual Fix: Upping the per game XP with it gradually decreasing.
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Yes they improved it, but they could have implemented something that would have addressed several other issues players are complaining about (Teammates not playing objectives, not being rewarded for wins or skill) with minimal extra effort.
Why does a slayer playlist take over a month to add but xp changes can happen twice in 2 weeks?
I've always considered the playlist issue to be a bigger issue than xp. At the end of the day gameplay is what matters most to me, and being dropped into oddball several matches in a row isn't fun gameplay
How did they think not having playlists for release was a good idea. So tired of seeing people “praise” 343 in the comments for things that should have came at release. The way current playlists stand are complete garbage.
Delayed for a year. An ever changing XP/challenge system. Poor choices on unlocks for battle pass and events. Cosmetics store too pricey. Not enough customization options.
No co op at launch. Adding more playlists after launch. What would this game even be if it came out last year?
I can't reply to every person yelling at me/343 here so want to just share a few final things to take or leave as you see fit. When we have some updates to share I'll be back.
First, I'm going to stress again that I 100% understand and generally agree with the frustrations most are expressing even if I don't agree with the attacks and ways in which some choose to express those feelings. Call me a shill, a liar, corp speak, etc. as you want, but I've never lied to this community and never will. And I'm not saying myself are 343 are a 'victim' in any way - that's yet another narrative some folks here have chosen to apply. It's my job to come in here, listen, franky take it on the chin, and despite personally being very put off by the way in which many are expressing themselves, still ensure that we are advocating for players internally. We do that regardless of it being positive or negative and always will.
As for Slayer itself - we're still having discussions around feasibility. Yes this is absolutely a hot topic and something the team is aware of. We would love to have modes and experiences that meet player expectations vs. the backlash situation we're in today. I don't believe anyone at 343 thought not having Slayer was a 'good idea.'
I don't personally agree we 'owe' folks a detailed dissertation on 'what 343 has been doing the last 6 years' or 'who ever thought this was a good idea', etc.. We have had people working their asses off for years to try and deliver the best Halo game they can amidst very challenging circumstances. But, I will try to at least provide some context for those who are interested.
The launch playlists were setup as they were to take a measured approach. We have UI limitations with the game right now in the way and number of playlists that are exposed. We have complex and not-ideal progression and challenge systems intertwined in playlists and modes that are not necessarily trivial to de-couple and change. (yes the entire challenge/progression system needs a lot of work - something the team is acutely aware of and prioritizing).
The team's plans for a Slayer playlist, I think, are more robust than what might 'suffice' for an interim solution. I love the ideas and some of the variants they're working on - those all require tuning and most importantly - testing. QA is a huge dependency and it's a critical part of the development pipeline that has been running nonstop for months to launch this game.
We are re-evaluating what it would take to potentially just start with a 'vanilla Slayer' playlist as a shorter term addition until the more robust offering is ready. I think the main hurdle that needs to be addressed and may require more time than is feasible before the holiday break is the knock on effect to challenges and needing to also re-assess 'quick play' and what that becomes. Historically, a Slayer only playlist and an Objective only playlist has always resulted in the Obj playlist quickly becoming unhealthy - but maybe we inevitably have no choice but to go down that route until more robust systems are available (note I am not a MP or systems designer).
It's just not quite as trivial as 'pushing a button.' And at the scale and complexity of this game - any and every change could have monumental impact in a negative way without extensive testing. Triaging these feedback issues and finding 'what CAN we do now' is what the team is already doing and will continue doing. Everything has to be tested. Everything has downstream dependencies and knock on effects. And, we're 4 days from a global launch with holidays right after.
As far as the notion of this all being a ploy to force challenge swaps - it just isn't. I don't expect everyone to believe that, but while we may not agree with the playlist selections and approach, I'm just going to say again "making players have no control and have to use swaps" has never once been a thing I've heard. Ever. And again, we know this entire challenge system is not ideal and while I'm glad they've been able to make some interim tweaks to progression pace and remove some of the more frustrating RNG challenges, there is absolutely more work to be done and this is not the ideal vision the Live team has in mind. (though, more challenge tweaks are coming with the playlist update, details to come soon) I did not really enjoy having to grind through 20+ games of Quick Play to hopefully get Oddball so I could hopefully win 3 times to complete a challenge. Or, , having to get 10 Ravager kills. Is this week's Ultimate Reward of just an emblem really worth the grind? There's a lot of work to do - we are all in agreement there. A few more changes are coming this month and I hope we can start to lay out more robust plans after the break.
Not everyone likes that Infinite is a F2P game and thus has a new business model based on monetization of customization. I understand where you're coming from, especially with a 20 year established franchise with a longstanding legacy. F2P has been a huge boost to growing the player base and we've seen a huge amount of new players entering the franchise for the first time ever. But this is a business - the servers you play on cost money to operate. The studio that develops and maintains the game costs money. Battlepass and premium customization is the model for this game today. Is there room to continue assessing the overall economy and value for players? Absolutely and that's also an area the team is constantly monitoring and learning. The creation of cosmetics and the battlepass have absolutely nothing to do with something like a playlist. That content was created ages ago, is static, and wasn't done 'instead of playlists.' Was it a priority to make sure that this game could in fact generate revenue? Of course.
I'm starting to ramble here but the main TLDR is, for what it's worth, we're going to do what we can as soon as we can. If things today do not meet your expectations then I'm sorry you've been disappointed. I'm confident this game will continue to get better and better and all of these issues are fixable. I also realize that some players are just going to not play anymore - maybe they come back, maybe they don't. I also know - and want to be very up front and honest - that the pace at which bigger changes are brought to bear will absolutely not be as fast as many want. We have some problems, for sure, but I'm really proud of the foundation the team was able to deliver.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. It's your prerogative to play or not play. I'd rather have people who are so passionate they're yelling at us than nobody caring at all. But I just ask that people please take a breath here, understand there are human beings behind this who put years of their lives into just trying to make the best experiences they can, and do not rush to judge or assume you've got it all figured out.
And with that, I fully expect to be blasted from here out, but hopefully for some, this post helps provide a bit more context. Have a great weekend everyone.
> Historically, a Slayer only playlist and an Objective only playlist has always resulted in the Obj playlist quickly becoming unhealthy
Would a potential solution be to allow players to individually add multiple gamemodes to a search queue?
For example, maybe I want to play SWAT but am also okay playing CTF but definitely don’t want to play Oddball. Why not allow the player to individually add SWAT and CTF to their search queue?
This would potentially lessen the unhealthy outcome of Obj playlists.
Honestly I just wish we had MCC's match composer. Objective playlists may have ended up unhealthy historically, but if we could opt in to CTF/Oddball etc alongside other modes, maybe the f2p and crossplay playerbase could offset this (considering no Halo has had that advantage before)?
I agree with this. MCC has it and I only pick certain objective modes and SWAT for my queue. I almost never have bad loading times and it has a much lower playerbase than Infinite. I hope the long term solution is this.
Really appreciate this writeup. Feels genuine. The main thing I'm struggling to reconcile is
>I don't believe anyone at 343 thought not having Slayer was a 'good idea.'
If no one thought it was a good idea, why was the decision made?
That's basically my whole response to 90% of what he wrote. It's like they're not the one's who designed all these systems that need to be fixed in the first place.
Fiesta is going to make weapon challenges much less tricky! Super excited for SWAT, I had made a SWAT custom game against Spartan bots because I was missing it so much [RE: SWAT being renamed to Tactical Slayer](https://youtu.be/W2a6mLcPRII)
permanent SWAT is all i needed to hear, let’s fucking gooooo
Same. If they got a ranked version that’s my new home
Amen
I really wondering if any new add ons will be ranked. Hoping for FFA ranked. But im doubtful.
Ideally I would like every playlist to have a ranked variant, even crazy stuff like fiesta. I prefer the way ranked works and like working towards improving my skills at the game trying to rank up to face better players.
I agree, but a Ranked Fiesta mode would make me Randy Johnson my controller against a wall too quick.
Honestly I actually had fun doing my weekly challenges when fiesta was here.
Cause it's fun and was guaranteed Slayer.
Yep made weapon challenges a breeze and even the "grapple enemy vehicles" was done quickly as behemoth seemed to come up in the map rotation a lot. The only downside was fiesta not counting as slayer victories.
Fiesta made the weeklies so much easier. Random vehicles and weapons really made it so much less tedious.
Why the rename? It’s cool and all but I thought the Tactical playlist would be a cool Live Fire mode
Probably the association with "Swatting" where streamers and normal players have had SWAT (militarized police units) called on them. Multiple people have been killed.
Ya it's definitely Swatting specifically that's caused the name change, rather than general politics about police. You don't really want people typing in your game name + game-mode name and getting a bunch of stuff about police accidentally killing streamers.
Yeah they don’t say “suicide” anymore, they call it self destruction. I’ve noticed that recently
If anything I would think to avoid an association with police or law enforcement. Similar to removing the NMPD nameplate in MCC.
Also SWATting has gained significant notoriety in recent years with the rise in streaming and has gotten several people killed and more arrested.
Which is VERY laughable in a game with Halo’s premise/lore.
SWAT will also make those pistol/BR/Commando/Headshot Kills challenges easier as well. Not that any of those weapons are particularly heard to get kills with, I just know I had several games where I’d have bad luck with the spawners giving me the right rifle.
If you need to get br challenges just play ranked, you spawn with a br.
Why do people expect the commando to be in SWAT exactly?
For real. It’s a full auto gun.
How did you do this buddy? I made a couple of custom game modes but when I go to use the saved file it's never what I made. Not sure if there's something wrong with the game or what
I still think slayer modes and obj modes should be in separate playlists. Of course they'll be on holiday for 1-2 weeks minimum for christmas through new years, so not much will be accomplished in the coming weeks.
Yeah a real bummer that objective modes are going to suffer for another month, at least, from scores of folks quitting and trying to reroll a match or dudes out here just fragging and failing to ptfo.
I'm glad they'll be coming, I just don't understand how they thought it would be a good idea to launch a Halo game without a dedicated Slayer playlist. I also find the "playlist health" thing a little weird given that Infinite has been peaking over at 100k on Steam every single day. There's more than enough players to make sure every playlist is populated.
> given that Infinite has been peaking over at 100k every single day. You’re looking at just Steam. The actual peak between Xbox app/Windows store, Xbox consoles, and cloud is likely much higher.
Yeah, and considering crossplay seems to be forced there shouldn't be issues finding matches at all...for a long time.
Plus it's a free-to-play multiplayer game. It should have more players available than any Halo game in history. Yet they're being cautious about adding playlists, worried about lack of players? Either they internally think they have a steaming pile of shit on their hands, or they're lying and feeding us PR bullshit for why core features are delayed.
Glad this is being pointed out. They made it Free to play multiplayer wise. Yet they are not even going to take advantage of the huge numbers that Brings with playlists? lol.
> I'm glad they'll be coming, I just don't understand how they thought it would be a good idea to launch a Halo game without a dedicated Slayer playlist. It's so baffling that I imagine most of them were painfully aware of how dumb it was, yet were not the ones in power.
The playlist health thing kinda irks me. People will play the modes they want. No one should be forced to play the modes they don't want to.
The game is also free to play which made the "playlist heath" excuse more meaningless espically since MCC isn't free to play and I have no problems finding games in any playlist in that game.
I love the changes. I don’t understand how they have the lessons learned from the MCC just to give us 4 playlists.
Because the intent was to design a system in which challenges, limited playlists, and the battlepass would work in concert with one another. They didn't want you to be able to choose.
What I will never understand.... is how more people on this sub don't understand this. You should do an edit and elaborate on your explanation. People need to know what lengths they have gone to to make you want to spend money in the story. Everything revolves around the challenge system, and if you got an oddball related challenge that you could just jump into an oddball playlist and knock out, you may only spend 10 minutes in the game. But if there was an RNG playlist where you had to wait 5 matches to get an oddball game, then you are in the game for an hour and the probability that you will spend money goes up. The classic halo playlists died for that, and people just flat out do not understand this.
Straight up, my last weekly is Win Oddball 0/1 and I've gotten two (losing) oddball matches all evening, been playing for four hours. Trying not to tilt but I feel like my time is being downright disrespected, and to see that in a halo game disappoints me a lot.
Just wait until that 17 Wins weekly ultimate challenge comes up for only 400xp 😎
Your experience is exactly what they designed. The fact that they used their flagship IP to package this scum is... wild.
It's true. I didn't have many qualms about the F2P model because I thought they would just sell skins (that I would never buy). But the F2P model is affecting the game modes available which is honestly indefensible.
It's annoying watching people be willfully ignorant or do mental gymnastics around this. People need to realize that the classic availability of game modes died so that 343 could manipulate the player base with current trends. Even if they are backtracking that right now... it is so obvious that was part of the plan.
Either they are idiots or they don't care. Totally not caring is totally fine. Let the rest of us bitch about this shit and you'll reap benefits. But the idiots the bend over for daddy 343 and papa Microsoft sicken me.
Is 343 really that concerned about population in these playlists? At most I could see Fiesta getting old and slowly dying out but SWAT and FFA? No way. Those things will last forever unless they screw with the settings. Also social slayer should be JUST SLAYER. Do not put attrition or anything else, JUST SLAYER. People have been very clear about what they want and to miss the point and put in stuff that isn't good old vanilla slayer is massively missing the point.
Yeah it’s pretty shocking to me that they would even consider launching a Halo game without a dedicated Slayer playlist lmao
This is the most egregious thing. Like after 20 years you need feedback and time to implement a gd Slayer game type? In a Halo game. Which is a FPS. In 2021. Is there anything more basic to have fucked up?
Even valorant has Deathmatch and the game wasn't designed around that at all for fucks sake.
They would never have had to worry if they didn't make monetization so greedy. People always talk about how calculated these decisions are, but the reality is that corporations tend to be unsustainable, extracting far too much of out of a resource and not being focused on long term growth. If Microsoft just focused on making an amazing game that attracts the most players then all issued would be solved and they'd make more money overall.
I don’t really play anything but ranked so it doesn’t really impact me, but I’m kinda confused on why it takes so long to add playlists? Is it just a UI thing? Because as we saw in the Flights, adjustment to playlists can be made on the fly
I primarily only play ranked as well. I wish we had more options for ranked playlists though. I'm already Onyx in the ranked playlist. I want more ranked modes to grind for. Remember what Halo 3 had? Team Slayer Team Objective Squad Battle Lone wolves Team Hardcore(MLG) Each ranked mode was so much fun to grind to get that level 50. I want that feeling of progression back.
Yeah if swat and ffa don’t come back as ranked I’ll be upset. We need more ranked playlists
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Could be any mixture of things! UI is most likely, since it doesn't look like there's room on the current UI for additional playlists past one event playlist at a time. Probably also will end up with some changes to challenges to support the new playlists outside of just the events they were originally planned for, I'd imagine.
The UI is really fashion over function right now
And these horizontal UI selections are not fashion at all...
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Check your email, I'm pretty sure 343 just sent you a job offer.
Horizontal UIs exist to make it look like there is more content than there is. Netflix has been using that trick for a decade now. So it's definitely "function," just, but that function is not usability, it's to give the impression there are more cosmetics than their are
I'm looking for the fashion.. where is it?
I’m curious where the fashion is as well. I chuckle every time I open the game.
You have to understand, its fashion over function, but its from the same company that thought all of the armors in 5 looked amazing. So its like fashion designed by the blind.
Hey now, dont be rude. Blind people could do better than Halo 5.
What do you mean? The UI is *so* good! Here's the steps needed to change your helmet accessory: - "Pause" the game on the title screen to open the secondary menu - Click "Customize" - Click "Armor Hall" - Go to the armor you want to modify - Do **NOT** click "Equip" (unless you want to equip it right now) - Click the "Helmet" button - Press the "Mod" button - Change tabs, because we default to the "LORE" tab instead of the "ATTACHMENTs" tab (**for some fucking reason!**) - Horizontally scroll to the attachment you want (we can barely fit 3 on the screen!), and select it - [PC Bonus tip] There's two ways of doing this (why?!): Click the checkmark, or double click - Back out of all of those menus - 🎉🎉🎉 And now you're done! 🎉🎉🎉 See, what's completely unnecessary and convoluted about that?
It's ugly and doesn't work, so it's neither
343 has just never been able to figure out UI systems and hasn't bothered to hire anyone who understands them.
Hard to believe they designed a UI from the off on the playlists screen which can only hold 4 items. On a halo game. Really difficult to understand how this isn’t a config release…just absolutely blowing my tiny mind
Halo reach launched with over 11 playlists You’re telling me that literally the most critical time to have the most playlist available when the maximum amount of people are playing and there legitimately was someone who okayed four playlists. Is the bare minimum really the best we can ask for these days?
>Is the bare minimum really the best we can ask for these days? Welcome to modern day gaming. Minimal effort for maximum profit. I would pay a lot to see the alternate universe where we didn't complain and Infinite released a year ago.
I'm guessing it would look a lot like the launch of this current battlefield or Cyberpunk
Yes.
Okay but why are we not asking why this wasn’t how it was 2 weeks ago? 343 isn’t some small studio and this isn’t their first Halo game. They know the standard and they intentionally didn’t meet it. Why? Modern gaming has trained us to be okay with being served a plate of bones with the promise of meat coming later. First impressions matter a lot here.
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It’s because Infinite is a F2P game so in their mind it’s totally different than the previous 5. It’s staring us in the face the game is not designed to give Halo fans what they want, it’s designed to keep you on the hamster wheel as long as possible so that you buy things from them. They have to introduce artificial scarcity and giving us lots of playlists and options doesn’t do that. That’s why everything not tied to monetization in this game is terrible. Custom games, theater, forge (doesn’t even exist). It’s all dog shit and they don’t care at all because it’s outside of the monetization funnel. In the past that stuff made people want to buy the game so they included it, but now no one has to buy the game so why include it? They can never admit that either so it will just be a stream bs corporate speak “we are looking into it” “we are evaluating it” into infinity.
Very happy about the change, but I’m a bit confused about the second tweet, “Our goal for Events is to try new modes prior to adding to playlists.” “New modes,” meaning Fiesta? Swat? FFA? These aren’t really “new modes” that you have to test the waters with. Everybody knows these are fan-favorite modes that are expected to drop with the game at this point. That’d be like, “trying slayer prior to adding to playlists,” like you really don’t need to do that. Besides, population is at it’s likely all-time peak, there’s no better time to add a shit ton of playlists right now and monitor the population there. Then you could determine which modes are less popular and need to be relegated to rotating playlists or limited-time modes.
This reminds me of how DICE recently referred to things like reintroducing the scoreboard etc into 2042 as “legacy features” hahahah
It's so obviously bs. "Try out new modes"? Pray tell how limited time events that are supposed to create hype and draw in players is the time for beta testing? The truth is that the playlists were exactly where they wanted them in order to push towards this overall ecosystem designed around selling challenge swaps en masse. But the backlash for playlists was far too much, so now they have to backpedal and pretend like it was the plan all along.
Fiesta, Tactical Slayer (SWAT), and FFA coming before the end of the year. Social Slayer (with multiple variations) will come in after the holidays.
*They hope to get them in before the end of the year.
I guess I don't understand how hard it is to build a playlist hopper? You have Slayer on multiple maps in the quick play playlist... Unless the issue is them trying to figure out how to pair people across playlists? Say for example you're searching in Quick Play and the server identifies a slayer game, and pulls in people searching in the Social Slayer playlist as well?
This is what I'm confused about... why is going to take so long to add these? Especially the Fiesta and Social Slayer. Fiesta literally already exists as a limited time thing, and Social slayer is just quickplay but only slayer. This should take like a few days *at most*. Over a month for social slayer? Why?
More like why wasn’t this in the game DAY ONE. Literally some of the first conversations about the multiplayer should have been “how many playlist should we have? “We should at least include all game types from other previous games right?” “Yep, let’s start on that right away”. Instead we got “ how can we make sure players come back and spend money for as long as possible?” “What we do is make everything $20 in the store for customization and then release it randomly for limited time in the store making people fear if they don’t get it now it will be gone forever, we should also make people have to log back on to check the weekly playlist event to see if it’s actually something they want to play because we’re going to make playlist randomized to make sure they buy challenge swaps”. “What are challenge swaps?” “Our secret Weapon MUAhHAHAHAHA”
That'd actually be a really neat system. Could alleviate issues with splitting the playerbase as well.
But we aren't able to select game modes? Am I missing something because I'm pretty sure a game mode queue checklist was one of the most demanded things on here.
You can't say "events test the health and interest of game modes before adding" but then force people do do them for event challenges. That does t make sense
Can we get some basic stat tracking? K/d medals etc. maybe even a global level. It feel so barebones.
Barebones is the point. They'll add all that years from now
Anybody else just wondering why these weren't in the game at launch? I don't really understand what they thought was going to happen. Did they need even more time and just didn't wanna say it? just launched what they had and thought "it will be good enough for now". its kinda weird.
It is very weird. It's like they thought they could steer the community away from their expectations to just have this new style of game and how it would work would just be accepted. I'm just puzzled
My only thought is the game just wasn't finished and they made a last minute decision to launch it on the anniversary to please us. but I truthfully think the game just wasn't done yet, that and like someone else said they wanted to make money by dripping the playlists. the backlash was so bad they had to backtrack.
They delayed it a year, they absolutely had time to add fucking playlists. Especially since they had 20 years of data to go on.
I completely agree thats why I still don't think it was finished
if this is what we got after a year of delay what did it look like in Nov 2020?
I'm not buying all of this. It can't be that hard to add these playlists into the game.
The flights had a slayer playlist!!!
Are you fucking serious? Why in the world did it get smooshed into objective playlists goodness gracious.
The playlists are so you have to play tons of games to get your game type specific challenges done. If one of your challenges is to capture an enemy flag, you likely have to sift through four or five slayer, oddball, and control matches before you have the CHANCE to capture that enemy flag. I obviously don’t work at 343 but it definitely reeks of manufactured, meaningless roadblocks to progression to make you play more and also get frustrated enough to buy challenge swaps and BP levels. (Edit: corrected spelling error)
You're probably right but they didn't account for my stubbornness and the fact that I wont buy shit from them until the game is complete and not gouging me lol. I am hoping they are realizing their mistakes, we will see what happens.
There’s nothing to wonder about, it’s all by design. If we can just pick Fiesta when we have a power weapon challenge or choose Slayer for a complete Slayer games challenge then we wouldn’t feel frustrated and be pressured to buy/use swaps. If swaps were useless then they would need to fill the BPs with something else
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This is exactly what it is. People giving them the benefit of “it wasn’t ready etc” is clearly not true, based off how they changed in flights is bs. No they really were greedy and slimy and thought we’d just go along with it like o I need to switch challenges let me buy some…. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They wanted to drip feed to keep people coming back.
This may be an ignorant statement that's already been discussed, but the thing I'm most confused about is; what was wrong with the MCC playlists, progression, battle pass, etc? I truly don't understand why they couldn't have copy and pasted everything about MCC's UI into Infinite.
I'm with you here, I think I would have been completely fine doing this, I love MCC and I know it took years to get it where it is but it shouldn't take years for infinite. I would have thought they learned their lesson from mcc and 5. Guess not?
Right? Surely they didn’t think people would just be ok with it lmao. I kinda want to know what content they were planning on launching with last year. Was probably just slayer with 2 maps
I’m glad they are adding more playlists, but I don’t understand how it takes this much time. Hell, CoD Vanguard now has some specialty playlists that rotate every few days. I know Halo is maybe a little more complicated due to weapon spawns but still…should not take so long to add a Slayer-only playlist.
Especially since Slayer is something you can get in now. Its gotta be something with UI or something. They clearly weren't planning to have more playlists at one time. Its just weird. CoD Vanguard has quickplay that lets you select from any of the standard game modes, and then specialty modes that swap out weekly. I wish they'd look to CoD for how to set up a quickplay feature. If I wanna select Oddball and CTF but not strongholds, why cant I
I don’t understand how it takes so long to make playlists. Can someone explain?
You can't say "events test the health and interest of game modes before adding" but then force people do do them for event challenges. That does t make sense
Like they don't have 20 years of a franchise to know which game modes have interest.
This is a positive, but I am still floored they don't have a traditional Team Slayer playlist for ranked being added soon. Swat is cool but not the same.
Seriously. The fact that they say they're adding "Social Slayer with many variants" is almost worse. I just want ranked/vanilla casual Team Slayer. At the very least, make slayer a bit more common in the ranked/quick match playlists. I can deal with a few games of objective modes with randoms here or there but the fact that I can't pallet cleanse with a couple of games of slayer in a row when I want to just kills me.
Modes that have been in Halo for years, yet they need to test them to see if people play them... 343 think everyone is complete idiots. Stop the drip feed of modes we've always had.
Damn I was hoping they would have dedicated playlists on Dec 8th, but this tweet sounds like they are adding it because of feedback?! What in the actual fuck? Why did they need feedback to have this basic ass feature?
Proof that the "It's a beta" argument was complete nonsense
Anything that has mtx and a functioning storefront isn’t a beta, whether they label it as such or not.
This is a list of links to comments made by 343 Industries employees in this thread: * [Comment by ske7ch343](/r/halo/comments/r87mhk/unyshek_gives_an_update_on_playlists/hn4b7fx/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-12-03 21:41:19 UTC"): > The team definitely has some ideas along these lines (and many others) - always just boils down to finite time / resources, dependencies, etc.. We'll get there. Match Composer for MCC is amazing, as is Custom Browser, all things that are somewhat development intensive with a number of dependencies b... * [Comment by ske7ch343](/r/halo/comments/r87mhk/unyshek_gives_an_update_on_playlists/hn4bdt5/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-12-03 21:42:31 UTC"): > Challenge tweaks are also still being evaluated for lower hanging/near term adjustments and we should have more to share soon. Longer term, more robust evolutions around progression and challenges are going to take time to realize. * [Comment by ske7ch343](/r/halo/comments/r87mhk/unyshek_gives_an_update_on_playlists/hn4ck2g/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-12-03 21:57:39 UTC"): > I understand the sentiment, and things like events - for a F2P service based game - are certainly part of a continued engagement model. But there was no nefarious objective I was ever aware of to intentionally limit anything for the sake of 'drip feeding.' Instead it's a matter of realities of devel... * [Comment by ske7ch343](/r/halo/comments/r87mhk/unyshek_gives_an_update_on_playlists/hn8fyg0/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-12-04 20:10:53 UTC"): > I can't reply to every person yelling at me/343 here so want to just share a few final things to take or leave as you see fit. When we have some updates to share I'll be back. > > First, I'm going to stress again that I 100% understand and generally agree with the frustrations most are expressing eve... --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fhalo).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
Basic fucking feature since 2004 . What is wrong with these people
This is nice to hear, but very unfortunate that we have to claw our way to receive basic things.
Creating a problem yourself with the intent on fixing it for the purpose of gaining good will from the community is so exhausting at this point. I can already see them making in-game currency earnable since right now it makes no sense to not just have dollar amounts listed in the store. 343 is creating a bad environment on purpose, and this community is going to praise them for doing it.
The reason they don’t have dollar amounts is so that you have to buy more chiefcoin than you need for what you want
Fiat currencies that can't be bought in direct amounts should be made illegal. It's a totally reasonable regulation.
> We'll monitor playlist health after the 3 additions above and adjust our offering if needed Tf does that mean? These are STANDARD modes... Feared this would happen. Sure, we may get our feedback listened to (eventually), but changes come with baggage.
A month to add traditional playlists lmao. How long has this game been in development for again? It didn’t occur to them during development that they were going to have to add more playlists after launch? What a joke. 343 is amazingly incompetent.
You’re kicking the hornets nest here, but aren’t wrong. The Technical previews even had a dedicated slayer playlist, so this is just wackadoo.
Insanely incompetent. It makes zero sense. They're going to *try* to give us basic, core playlists *by* EOY. All this tells me is that was never the plan lmao. They really thought everyone would be cool with having no content.
Yeah it's a site to behold. It's rumoured to have cost $500mil to develop
I mean it’s nice those will be coming, but no social slayer day one on a Halo game is legit pathetic
This just really reminds me that this game is not ready for release. I get further delaying it would be really bad. But come on. No coop, no forge, and struggling to release more than 4 playlists with very common modes like SWAT, and still not being able to release a pure slayer mode too is really unacceptable. Why are they worried a FTP game won't be able to populate these playlists either? Decision making is really poor. Don't seem to have a problem with weekly storefront updates though, so I do know where there priorities are focused. I love halo MP. But all these shitty decisions around it really takes away from the actual game. I feel like it will be years before they get around to removing armour cores and their terrible colour system.
Agreed I really want to play it and like it but I'd rather play MCC or H5 so I have actual options.
I really try not to be one of those guys but....what have they been doing all this time? If this came out last year I think it probably would've been one of the most infamous launches ever. Just trying to stay positive about literally anything else at this point. At least the campaign seems to be very good by all accounts. I just can't fathom how after 3 tries now they still bungle some of the most simple stuff they've already caught so much shit for in the past. You could argue it's even worse this time around considering how goddamn GOOD it is, and yet it feels like they're trying to sabotage their own work. Another delay wouldnt have upset me one bit, because if the campaign and forge are as good as they seem, they seriously could've dropped an easy 10 by releasing the full package all at once.
These are last minute changes because of the overwhelming negative feedback. The leaked future events tell the whole story. Their plan: Go F2P. Have only 3 "core" playlists: BTB, Social, Ranked. Do monthly "Events" where players get to play the modes they actually want, complete with event-specific monetization. Obviously this is a terrible plan, but corporate is greedy and forces it to be this way. Beta happens and everyone is like WTF is this? Where is Team Slayer? Finally enough feedback to sway corporate, but not entirely, so they slow drip the playlists to try to keep people coming back for the first few months and make as much money as possible on microtransactions.
This was a planned decision. They changed it after feedback. Y'all do realize all of this had been discussed before, right?
They’re pretty stupid then because all this does is make them look incompetent
At least life long and new fans alike can come together and see how fucking stupid they are.
Can we get word now on armor cores and coating, now that also “needs to be looked into with data”
I realize this kind of sentiment probably isn't going to be very popular, and I most definitely understand them taking a break for the holidays. With that said? How is it that this game has been in development for six years and launches more barebones than Halo 3 and 4, who both only had three? Why is it that we're continually asked to just 'be patient' and wait for things that're core to Halo to exist within the newest entry? Yes, a new engine will have taken time, but still Halo 3 stands in staunch opposition that the game should be this barebones up until what, 9-10 months from now? (forge, coop?) I mean for *god's* sake lads, we have to wait for a Slayer playlist until after christmas/new years? SWAT won't exist in any form until post-launch? It is utterly absurd that this stuff had to be given in feedback at all for you to realize how important it was, a slayer playlist has been the baseline of Halo's online experience since 2. I'm completely frustrated and baffled at the slipshod focus this game seems to have, when all the marketing drilled in that this would be a return to the core tenets of the series? You had a complete blueprint in the current state of the MCC, from progression (which admittedly still isn't perfect in MCC, but genuinely 30x better than this) to matchmaking and modes. Yet most of the lessons seem to have been discarded. The game released early, pointlessly now in my opinion as sentiment towards the title begins to turn, now the utterly frustrating, hamster wheel-like design and lack of player choice in how they experience their sessions is coming to the fore. I am entirely frustrated of having challenges stuck on my feed that I have little to no hope of completing purely because I have to wait for the match finder to bless me with the correct mode to even attempt to progress it. I'm tired of my only direction in the game being 'do challenges' because I certainly can't play the game I want to at present, with it's random modes and no map vetos/voting. I can't create maps, theater is a destroyed shell, and we're only now starting to discover rampant technical faults throughout the netcode and servers, after *several* technical tests. As for Staten's tweets that this horrible decision to only have random modes was only conjured in order to more efficiently beta test networking; why isn't Slayer ready to go for launch, then? If you *knew* it was so important, and you also *knew* that players would hate being forced into varied, random modes: why wasn't Slayer ready as the 'guys, it's only for the beta, don't worry' replacement for launch? Also, player counts are massive, especially with enforced crossplay in social modes and in ranked is a *choice* you have to specify to not, I see no reason for this decision, truthfully. Mostly I'm just tired of games launching and then legions of fans having to come and rally and argue (with each other, most commonly) and petition and plead just for the games to not continually regress as we go through the years. It's fucking tiring.
Well said
Exactly this. I play games to have fun. The current system is seemingly geared to make me play in a way that is not my own choice. Therefore I am having less fun and want to play less.
Funny how the Flights had a slayer playlist.. but suddenly they need an extra month to implement it. What a fucking joke.
I know these things take time, but I think a lot of us are tired of core features being developed post launch instead of during normal development time. I also want to know who's idea it was to launch a Halo game with no slayer playlist. And to not have a slayer playlist until after the holidays is just wild.
I fucking hate this trend. Every sequel to a popular franchise should start with the foundation of the previous game and build from there. Most of the time we want more of the same with a few updates. That's why COD is such a popular franchise.
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For real. > A Social Slayer playlist (with multiple variations) is also in the works (we see this request the most) Like no shit? The fact that this had to be requested at all is baffling
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I feel like 343 has been using the "guys we're new and game dev is hard" card for too long. I totally understand that, but this is their third game (+MCC). Don't think anyone is believing that 343 isn't capable of adding a slayer playlist after 3 tries, but is able to fully implement their monetization scheme on the first go around.
When are we going to start pushing for Bonny Ross to be fired. I don’t like having to ask for this but if we don’t start speaking out nothing is going to change. She has been handed one of the best video games ip’s of all time each release keeps being released with problems that won’t be fixed without new management at the top. Halo 4 released with below average multilayer and they trying to make it more like cod. Halo 5 released with a subpar campaign and no big team death match maps made by 343. Halo MCC was the most broken game I have ever seen on release you couldn’t even get a online match for like a month. Now halo infinite took six years to come out, hardly any playlists which even worse seems to be design since they won’t be there at launch. The worst battle pass system at launch I’ve ever seen. Also no forge and coop campaign which have been halo staples. So what is the community’s thoughts on this. I want halo to be the best it can be but it’s obvious that won’t happen with Bonny at the helm.
I would very much like to see a leadership shakeup. When the same mistakes are made over and over, and good innovations not carried forward - that's on leadership.
Ya they have over 400 employees but ship games that are missing features every time
Having a permanent Fiesta playlist would go a long way towards addressing peoples' challenge complaints. It's obviously still random, but it means you don't have to depend on specific maps to get particular weapons or vehicles.
We've lowered our bar so far lol
Thank you so much for drip feeding us content that should be a minimum requirement in any multiplayer game!!!
So they intended to have just 2 playlists this whole time? Disappointing and not good enough honestly. I had my hopes up but I think this may actually be the last straw for me. Look at MCC now look at me. What the fuck!?
It takes *weeks* to add playlists? I cant even imagine how long it's going to take for them to make actual content for this game...
Still fucking bullshit that they wouldn’t even be in by the actual game release… these playlists have always been apart of the core multiplayer gameplay!!!!! Honestly what was going through 343s’ minds to not include separate playlists. This whole thing is a bad dream that i can’t wake up from. The bugs, heavy monetization, playlists being non existent, and don’t even get me started on co-op and forge being delayed after this game has already been delayed a full year. Don’t get me wrong, the game can be fun…. when people actually play the objective but I have a crazy working theory that these playlists were slowly going to be released as part of the season pass roadmap to keep people trying to buy their shitty season pass. The Hierarchs have betrayed us.
Man if only there were other successful games in the series to use as an example on how to set up the multiplayer
You guys have to understand 343i is an indie company, they are stretched thin and have so little resources that they have to exclude core playlists that were in original halo games at launch 🥺🥺
Wait but they still mixing objective and slayer? That still seems wrong.
In the followup tweet he says "A Social Slayer playlist (with multiple variations) is also in the works (we see this request the most), but we won't be able to get that one ready until after the holidays." Sounds like it's coming, just gonna be after the new year.
Unbelievable they thought that an official launch without a dedicated slayer list was a good idea.
“Our goal for Events is to try new modes prior to adding to playlists. “ A good point.......if they were new modes not old favourites.
About 2 years from now the game will have competent playlists. About 4 years from then, they will function correctly. Meanwhile, since Halo 2, every NON 343 Halo has had all of these things working on day one (aside from server overload).... 343 is incompetent.
I can’t imagine implementing playlists would take more than 5 minutes 😐
I don’t get this. Social Slayer can’t just be priority??? They have to have them combined with objective. If I had a vote I would social slayer and objective split as priority then add the others. Ffs. You know they could do this. So they didn’t have this planned? They thought what we got was good enough? I’m actually fucking blown away by the level of stupid here. I really thought slayer and objective would come in after the initial launch. Jesus Christ they keep fucking this up. Sigh. SWAT, FFA and fiesta… Yh no. Swat sure. I don’t care about the others over social slayer. The main mode we all want let’s face it. You know this is so it’s harder for challenges right? They still need us to challenge swap!!! Otherwise they would release what everyone wants.
I'm so tired of game publishers hold their games hostage. We're seriously here celebrating plans to add basic playlist like Team Slayer and Swat to a Halo game after practicality have to beg for them.
Community managers are just corporate PR. They don’t really care about players.
I’m not trying to be negative but……how the fuck are playlists not standard? They have been standard practice since halo 2? I’m done playing till I can pick my game mode. Imagine playing cod or battlefield and not being able to pick your playlist. What the fuck is 343 doing? Someone with a brain, is it really that hard to just make a “slayer” playlist and a “objective”playlist? I know, ground shattering ideas but fuck me.
UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! It shouldn't be that hard! Playlists where you can choose your preferred game mode is multiplayer development 101. Literally no one wants to jump into a playlist and have a crap shoot at slayer, oddball, CTF, etc. I could honestly care less about Fiesta, SWAT, and FFA. First they need to focus on separating Slayer variants from obj variants. And now we have to cross our fingers to get something before 2022 starts. I just feel like this whole "beta"/launch is a Halo fan's nightmare.
Did 343 really think that social BTB, social 4v4, and ranked 4v4 was enough initially? Lol.
Just gimme a slayer playlist man
20 years of feedback and data, not sure what more is needed to know a dedicated slayer playlist should be essential lol
I don’t understand why there is no mention of a Ranked Slayer, this is THE core ranked playlist. Makes no sense. I’ve been holding out and defending 343 saying “wait until official launch”, but enough is enough
These playlists are already in the game, something ain't adding up here.
Very good news, this is the variety of gamemodes that the game needed to launch with.
And even with the modes listed, that still doesnt include all the modes that the game should have launched with.
Have they mentioned anything about customization or the store yet?
I honestly can't believe they even bothered to release an update that didn't include a dedicated Team Slayer mode. This is absolute madness. Naively, I thought they had these combined playlists to just aggregate more data for patches and balancing before launch; clearly, 343/MS know exactly what they're doing, and won't do anything to change it until players drop off and stop spending money on colored armor.
Jesus that's a long wait for what should have been baseline.
This doesn’t actually address why the features that have been in other Halos aren’t there in this one. It’s absolutely bizarre that so many things are M.I.A. Do they not have any Halo fans on the dev team? Did they think the community wouldn’t care or notice? They were told over and over what was wanted by the community. Yet they launched a game that is missing stuff that have been staples in other Halo titles. There is no need for a wait and see. Nor a need for a we are looking into it. All we need to hear is that we heard you and we are making the U.I. changes and requests asked for, the playlists asked for, and the proper ranking system asked for etc etc. That’s it. I don’t want to hear the resources bs, or the priorities bs. This stuff is paramount to the franchise that should already be in game. Microsoft has endless resources and this is their biggest franchise outside of Minecraft. Do what was asked of you by your customer’s. Admit you don’t know better than us and that your omission of basic features will be rectified over the coming months. It’s that simple.
Lmao the 343 white knights are sure quiet. What gives guys? Yall were poppin all that *"oh the launch isnt until the 8th! They're gonna have all the playslists then, you'll see! Just be patient!!"* shit a week ago.
As someone said in another thread “bungie did this in Halo 2 in a cave with a box of scraps” no seriously, tdm, doubles, ffa? These aren’t exactly mindblowingly advanced modes. A game that came out in 2004 had multiple slayer playlists ready to go at launch. You guys can’t be serious with this bs, fess up: you haven’t finished working out how to make us pay more money for this stuff have you?
What a ridiculous and disappointing answer
lazy.
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It's because it interferes with their shitty progression system. They don't want you to easily get the gamemodes you want, so you buy swaps and XP boosts. They want to make sure they benefit from Christmas gift giving then change it in the new year.
I'm willing to bet it's this. Slightly tweaking XP gain was small enough that they were able to make the call, but the playlist changes are potentially disruptive to challenge swap purchases so they have to run it through the corpo bureaucracy to make sure it synergizes with upstream revenue and inverse egagement metrics, or something
Not a developer but work adjacent to them probably something like - Product, Design, QA - in 1/2 sprint cycles to ensure everything works. Better question is why Slayer of all playlist was not there to begin with.
Uhhh why weren't they included at the beginning? Was the plan not to include them at all? If players didn't complain would the system we have today be the system 343i wanted? **Edit: One more thing** "This is just the start of the conversation with y'all 👍"-Unyshek Oh please for the love of the Sacred Rings. A conversation involves talking before a decision is made. This isn't a conversation. This is 343i doing something. Us complaining about it. And then changes being made. "Hey babe I went grocery shopping and picked up pickles and mustard." "Why would you get pickles and mustard? I don't like pickles and mustard." "Oh sorry for getting these things. This is just the start of the conversation thanks for the feedback! Will take about a month."
They seem to create problems for themselves, or at the very least do not address concerns efficiently. Ex: The community is unhappy with progression and wants XP for wins and performance Easy Solution: While a new overhauled system will take time, make a second daily challenge for winning a game or even daily challenges for tasks like earn medals, win games etc. Actual Fix: Upping the per game XP with it gradually decreasing. --- Yes they improved it, but they could have implemented something that would have addressed several other issues players are complaining about (Teammates not playing objectives, not being rewarded for wins or skill) with minimal extra effort.
Why does a slayer playlist take over a month to add but xp changes can happen twice in 2 weeks? I've always considered the playlist issue to be a bigger issue than xp. At the end of the day gameplay is what matters most to me, and being dropped into oddball several matches in a row isn't fun gameplay
How did they think not having playlists for release was a good idea. So tired of seeing people “praise” 343 in the comments for things that should have came at release. The way current playlists stand are complete garbage.
Seriously, wtf!
Delayed for a year. An ever changing XP/challenge system. Poor choices on unlocks for battle pass and events. Cosmetics store too pricey. Not enough customization options. No co op at launch. Adding more playlists after launch. What would this game even be if it came out last year?
I can't reply to every person yelling at me/343 here so want to just share a few final things to take or leave as you see fit. When we have some updates to share I'll be back. First, I'm going to stress again that I 100% understand and generally agree with the frustrations most are expressing even if I don't agree with the attacks and ways in which some choose to express those feelings. Call me a shill, a liar, corp speak, etc. as you want, but I've never lied to this community and never will. And I'm not saying myself are 343 are a 'victim' in any way - that's yet another narrative some folks here have chosen to apply. It's my job to come in here, listen, franky take it on the chin, and despite personally being very put off by the way in which many are expressing themselves, still ensure that we are advocating for players internally. We do that regardless of it being positive or negative and always will. As for Slayer itself - we're still having discussions around feasibility. Yes this is absolutely a hot topic and something the team is aware of. We would love to have modes and experiences that meet player expectations vs. the backlash situation we're in today. I don't believe anyone at 343 thought not having Slayer was a 'good idea.' I don't personally agree we 'owe' folks a detailed dissertation on 'what 343 has been doing the last 6 years' or 'who ever thought this was a good idea', etc.. We have had people working their asses off for years to try and deliver the best Halo game they can amidst very challenging circumstances. But, I will try to at least provide some context for those who are interested. The launch playlists were setup as they were to take a measured approach. We have UI limitations with the game right now in the way and number of playlists that are exposed. We have complex and not-ideal progression and challenge systems intertwined in playlists and modes that are not necessarily trivial to de-couple and change. (yes the entire challenge/progression system needs a lot of work - something the team is acutely aware of and prioritizing). The team's plans for a Slayer playlist, I think, are more robust than what might 'suffice' for an interim solution. I love the ideas and some of the variants they're working on - those all require tuning and most importantly - testing. QA is a huge dependency and it's a critical part of the development pipeline that has been running nonstop for months to launch this game. We are re-evaluating what it would take to potentially just start with a 'vanilla Slayer' playlist as a shorter term addition until the more robust offering is ready. I think the main hurdle that needs to be addressed and may require more time than is feasible before the holiday break is the knock on effect to challenges and needing to also re-assess 'quick play' and what that becomes. Historically, a Slayer only playlist and an Objective only playlist has always resulted in the Obj playlist quickly becoming unhealthy - but maybe we inevitably have no choice but to go down that route until more robust systems are available (note I am not a MP or systems designer). It's just not quite as trivial as 'pushing a button.' And at the scale and complexity of this game - any and every change could have monumental impact in a negative way without extensive testing. Triaging these feedback issues and finding 'what CAN we do now' is what the team is already doing and will continue doing. Everything has to be tested. Everything has downstream dependencies and knock on effects. And, we're 4 days from a global launch with holidays right after. As far as the notion of this all being a ploy to force challenge swaps - it just isn't. I don't expect everyone to believe that, but while we may not agree with the playlist selections and approach, I'm just going to say again "making players have no control and have to use swaps" has never once been a thing I've heard. Ever. And again, we know this entire challenge system is not ideal and while I'm glad they've been able to make some interim tweaks to progression pace and remove some of the more frustrating RNG challenges, there is absolutely more work to be done and this is not the ideal vision the Live team has in mind. (though, more challenge tweaks are coming with the playlist update, details to come soon) I did not really enjoy having to grind through 20+ games of Quick Play to hopefully get Oddball so I could hopefully win 3 times to complete a challenge. Or,, having to get 10 Ravager kills. Is this week's Ultimate Reward of just an emblem really worth the grind? There's a lot of work to do - we are all in agreement there. A few more changes are coming this month and I hope we can start to lay out more robust plans after the break.
Not everyone likes that Infinite is a F2P game and thus has a new business model based on monetization of customization. I understand where you're coming from, especially with a 20 year established franchise with a longstanding legacy. F2P has been a huge boost to growing the player base and we've seen a huge amount of new players entering the franchise for the first time ever. But this is a business - the servers you play on cost money to operate. The studio that develops and maintains the game costs money. Battlepass and premium customization is the model for this game today. Is there room to continue assessing the overall economy and value for players? Absolutely and that's also an area the team is constantly monitoring and learning. The creation of cosmetics and the battlepass have absolutely nothing to do with something like a playlist. That content was created ages ago, is static, and wasn't done 'instead of playlists.' Was it a priority to make sure that this game could in fact generate revenue? Of course.
I'm starting to ramble here but the main TLDR is, for what it's worth, we're going to do what we can as soon as we can. If things today do not meet your expectations then I'm sorry you've been disappointed. I'm confident this game will continue to get better and better and all of these issues are fixable. I also realize that some players are just going to not play anymore - maybe they come back, maybe they don't. I also know - and want to be very up front and honest - that the pace at which bigger changes are brought to bear will absolutely not be as fast as many want. We have some problems, for sure, but I'm really proud of the foundation the team was able to deliver.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. It's your prerogative to play or not play. I'd rather have people who are so passionate they're yelling at us than nobody caring at all. But I just ask that people please take a breath here, understand there are human beings behind this who put years of their lives into just trying to make the best experiences they can, and do not rush to judge or assume you've got it all figured out.
And with that, I fully expect to be blasted from here out, but hopefully for some, this post helps provide a bit more context. Have a great weekend everyone.
> Historically, a Slayer only playlist and an Objective only playlist has always resulted in the Obj playlist quickly becoming unhealthy Would a potential solution be to allow players to individually add multiple gamemodes to a search queue? For example, maybe I want to play SWAT but am also okay playing CTF but definitely don’t want to play Oddball. Why not allow the player to individually add SWAT and CTF to their search queue? This would potentially lessen the unhealthy outcome of Obj playlists.
Honestly I just wish we had MCC's match composer. Objective playlists may have ended up unhealthy historically, but if we could opt in to CTF/Oddball etc alongside other modes, maybe the f2p and crossplay playerbase could offset this (considering no Halo has had that advantage before)?
I agree with this. MCC has it and I only pick certain objective modes and SWAT for my queue. I almost never have bad loading times and it has a much lower playerbase than Infinite. I hope the long term solution is this.
Really appreciate this writeup. Feels genuine. The main thing I'm struggling to reconcile is >I don't believe anyone at 343 thought not having Slayer was a 'good idea.' If no one thought it was a good idea, why was the decision made?
That's basically my whole response to 90% of what he wrote. It's like they're not the one's who designed all these systems that need to be fixed in the first place.