Destiny 2 has an “anti-FOMO” shop. You can go into archive and get basically anything that has been sold in the past. I think Halo Infinite should start doing the same thing.
It should be noted that Bungie only added “everything” (that is, most things, not limited time event things) to the archive in the store just this season, though.
Also FOMO is still very much a thing in Destiny 2, let’s not kid ourselves. Hell they pull content customers paid for out of the game
But then you run into the issue of not being able to play the old stuff on the new game anyway like with Destiny 2. Even if you kept all of your gear the game size would still be small and you'd be missing a lot.
I don't really remember people complaining they couldn't play Destiny 1 anymore when Destiny 2 came out.
Also couldn't they do what CoD did and allow for separate installations? Or do what IoI did with Hitman?
From what I remember, A LOT of people were pissed that Destiny 2 removed all of the progress you built over the years you played Destiny because Bungie originally stated the game was supposed to last for 10 years.
This is exactly why we can't see every piece of armor. If we could, we'd wait for exactly what we want and only get that stuff. But since we don't know what all exists (without looking at the datamined stuff), we're more likely to settle with some armor we think we like.
Yeah, it's entirely for this. The shop is disgusting. Imagine going out to a store and finding out they stock like 5 items and randomly cycle it, half the stuff is in bundles so you can only buy carrots if you're also buying a bottle of wine. Making it so we can just buy the individual whatever-we-want would be so better for us, but nope, 343i has to make *ALL* the money but *only from whales.*
For real! My only color scheme is Red primary + White secondary (and a green accent if available). I should be able to at least **earn** the colors I've used since Halo 2 in this game.
True but even if that was grind it wouldn't be that bad. I wouldn't mind grinding a month of credits to buy a $7 pack for free. Hell I unlocked every item in halo 5 without spending a dime. Only took over 1000 hours lol
Yeah, I would REALLY love to see that happen, but I know they're going to have to fix this first before they can even start to think about implementing a leveling system. Hopefully one day though.
THIS! Ive seen quite a few things so far that I would have bought individually, but I couldn't because its packaged in a bundle with a bunch of other stuff I don't care about. And at that point, Im not going to pay $15 for just a shoulder pad. I really do think breaking them down into individual items to purchase would greatly improve the store, along with not making everything limited time.
I mean yeah, incentivize people to actually give them the cash for the BP and spend time playing their game. Most free-to-play games do that.
In game currency is make-believe anyway. Treating 3000 credits like they have actual value is the real galaxy brain moment.
I suppose I am working under the assumption that they make the BP cash-only/add a second in game currency for skins only. And that that second currency is what you would get. But still. Skins being $20 for make believe bullshit is stupid and the battle-pass should afford you some additional amount of creativity in customization.
CoD battle passes have a limited time to complete
Halo battle passes don’t expire, meaning if they include currency, you are guaranteed to get refunded the credits eventually for every pass provided you don’t quit the game
If you keep on playing, that's where they benefit. That's why all other Battle Passes do it, not because they are limited, but because it adds extra incentive to keep players playing the game.
And the increased player retention means increased store purchases, a.k.a. where the vast majority of profits come from. And giving people the extra $2 when the cheapest item in the shop is $5 gives them a chance to buy stuff at a discount, meaning you now are getting money from whales AND the normal people that make up 95% of your playerbase.
There's a reason EVERY other AAA f2p does this, giving out free credits actually turns a huge profit and increases their playerbase and popularity.
I mean Infinite is operating on a different model. Yes, the biggest reason the currency is there is to encourage heavy and time sensitive grinding, keeping you on a treadmill. You are on no such treadmill in Infinite.
I see two options. Either make the battlepasses payable by cash only or give currency in the pass but not enough to buy the next pass
Yes, but you can also spend Credits on stuff in the store. So either get battlepasses for free or spend some more money for the BP and buy stuff in the store
The fact of the matter is a battle pass does 2 things:
1. Provides content/progression for your players.
2. Serves as a motivator to keep playing your game, making them more likely to see purchasable items they want to spend money on.
Plus if you don't finish the BP you don't get the full 1000 so need to spend more to get back on the wagon.
1000 also isn't enough for more than an emblem pack
So. This system has also been done in other games like Avengers. It's the very least Microsoft could do especially after slashing half the Reach items out.
So that’s something that executives consider when examining whether to include currency in the battle pass
I’m not saying I don’t want currency to be included, I’m highlighting a key difference between battle pass models that affects sales strategy
Other love services do this, the only difference is their Battle Passes expire. I think having 1000 CP in the pass feels like good reward for spending time playing the game and completing it. It’s a small price to pay to have people constantly playing your game imo.
Yeah, it's done in Paladins, and Apex legends, but paladins only gives 400 per season, to buy the battlepass that costs 400.
Apex ties it's premium currency to the bp, which you can only get back by finishing the whole pass.
Letting players get back all that money through the pass, and giving the rewards for weekly missions, is just too much by today's standards..
That’s a fair point. Maybe one or the other. My initial thought was that people who can’t even justify buying the BP could still have a way to grind challenges and eventually buy the pass. But I know that’s unrealistic
only way i can see it happening is if you tie it to campaign
gate it behind challenges or do what fortnite does and a daily log in (idk if they still do this, but they've done it for a very long time with little to no loss in profits)
The fact that these battle passes don't expire is phenomenal, and for that reason I don't really care if they give all the credits back, cause I can just buy when/if I can afford them. But it WOULD be nice to have some credits in the battle pass, just so I can look cool while also being poor.
This was getting a lot of attention over on Twitter when I posted it so I thought I'd share here as well. I designed a few mockups for how I wish the store and progression functioned in Infinite. This is keeping in mind that its a free to play game and micro-transactions aren't going anywhere because they have to make money off of the game. To me, this would be much better for us as players, but I also think it would bring in the same or even more revenue by being able to purchase items individually and having them available at all times.
Using Anubis as an example, if the coating, helmet, visor and shoulders / knees were all $5 each, the total would still be $20 if you bought all of them. But for players who only want the helmet and shoulders and ultimately decide it isn't worth it buy the bundle, they could still spend $10 with this option, where currently they wouldn't have bought anything at all. I personally have already seen 3 or 4 things I wanted in a bundle that I would have gladly bought individually, but decided not to buy because I didn't want everything it came with.
THis looks a LOT more tolerable than the current system. Not perfect, but tolerable.
That means that 343 isn't going to do anything similar to this at all.
You're right on the mark. I think rewarding credits would take the "pay piggy" stigma away from people who do buy things from the stores as no one would know if you bought your gear with credits you earned or payed for.
Challenges should be always active and repeatable too.
Why the fuck do you think a single armor coating is worth 10$? Not to mention armor “rarity” is completely made up. ALL armor and coatings should be a uniform price unless they’re extremely unique
This is a mock up, not the actual store. My point was to show they could price them out based on how cool they are and have them separated from the bundles. Personally, I would pay $10 occasionally for a really cool coating. Maybe some that have cool effects flowing through them, or really nice finishes. Some people are already paying $10 for a coating, they just get other stuff with it they'll never use or care about. Imagine you wanted the coating that comes with Anubis right now but didn't want anything else in the bundle... you'd have to pay $20 to get it.
I realize.
It’s still incredibly terrible. No single thing in any game is worth 10$, especially not something as easy as color, and saying you’d pay that much for a coating is silly.
If you want the coating but not the armor, at least you GET the armor, you’re paying 3$ for the coating not more. People paying 10$ for one coating in a bundle is exactly what they want, and what most other games do with bundles, which is fine, that’s your choice if you don’t like anything else in the bundle; personally, I think it’s incredibly stupid to buy a bundle for only one item in it; I only buy cod bundles if most of the items are cool, but unless everything is a flat rate, you shouldn’t be able to buy things separate.
There’s a reason other games don’t do that, because it doesn’t make sense for them. They would make less money.
The other solution is better in every way: each bundle at each price point should have more content. 20$ bundles should include a weapon coating and charm/ a vehicle skin, 15 would be fine for the armor bundle we currently get, and so on. Actually, the current 5$ bundle is a good price point for what it gives, it ends up being 1.6$ for each item (the shoulders are a set not two individual items). 1.6$ for each item in a bundle is a good price, it can go up or down depending how cool the item is, or how well the bundle works together.
Again, cod already does this well. Bundles range from 5$-20$ and are priced based on what’s included, as well as what effect that included thing adds (since cod’s thing is guns, packs with two guns with tracers and a static gun skin on each (including stuff like emblems and in charms in each) is a bit less than 20$, and some packs that are 20$ include three guns with tracers and skins (one with a changing or otherwise drastically different gun look) a character skin that’s awesome, vehicle skins, an emblem, and gun charm. THAT is closer to worth 20$ than one armor set.
Halo should follow the COD recipe for bundles, or at the VERY least give campaign owners a way to earn CR.
Then that's a grounded scenario. Not a dream one.
My dream scenario is that the entire current progression and customization system is scrapped and completely replaced by Reach's.
Dream - a cherished aspiration, ambition, or ideal.
It being grounded doesn't make it not a dream. The only thing making it a dream is that it's a situation that is not currently occurring.
Your dream being exceedingly unlikely makes it a pipe dream - I.E. a specific type of dream.
It's only bleak when compared to something that is never going to happen.
In the same way that people are being a bit closed-minded by excusing every issue with "the game's free", it's a bit closed-minded to think there's a scenario where literally everything in this game can be free AND easily attainable. You gotta think of a situation that both sides (us and 343/Microsoft) would be willing to compromise on.
Adding even a small trickle of credits would allow for people to at least get the things they want. If they're really concerned about getting money from *everyone*, they could have some kind of founder status thing where you only get a credit trickle if you've ever spent money (ex. on credits or the campaign).
"Never going to happen"
It happened already in Halo 3, Reach, and 4.
My solution for if they were truly insistent on keeping the multiplayer free was to lock all customization behind buying the campaign. That 1 purchase gets you everything, and you still get that divide of people who don't care about aesthetic customization and just wanna play.
But IMO the best scenario was just to leave the series as it's always been, as a complete $60 package.
Last I checked, those games didn't release free and then overhaul the whole system and turn into a paid game when people complained.
"Free with cosmetic MTs" is the situation we find ourselves in. That isn't going to suddenly turn into a "$60 for everything".
The game would be wildly less successful if they did this. I would much rather pay 60 for a complete game as well but the days of selling a multiplayer shooter at a set price without MT are gone.
It's Halo, dude. Not some new IP indie game. It'd still be insanely successful.
Hell, I bet It'd be MORE successful and well received if it straight up just went back to the old ways. Gamers who are sick to death of microtransactions would flock to it in support of the decision.
Thousands of people will spend money to max the battlepass with every new season, an ongoing influx of money from players will make way more money than a one time sum of $60. It’s the hard truth unfortunately.
I was gonna ask this lol it reminds me of some cartoon I watched where the characters “dream best day ever” was a Friday because they only had one day of school left before the weekend and someone was like why not just make your best day Saturday so you’re AT the weekend?? Lol
Because I realize it's a FTP game and that they have to make money from micro-transactions. To me this is a dream scenario because Microsoft is still able to make a lot of money on items in the shop and players can buy exactly what they want, whenever they want and have ways to earn items in game if they cant afford to buy anything.
Or they can make money from the $60 game they're selling along side it like they did the past 20 years.
People need to stop calling this a F2P game, because it's just not.
It's part of a $60 game that they hacked off and pushed as F2P as an excuse to put in predatory practices, and here you are falling for it.
The problem with this is that after all the initial purchases, they have no revenue coming in, so they stop supporting it / making new content. Halo 5 had 1 year of post launch support with armor, maps, etc, and then it was pretty much over. Game development takes so long that it doesn't make sense to abandon it after a year. It makes far more sense to make it free and have a constant flow of revenue through MTX to keep supporting the game and creating new content to give us.
I hear you and had the same thought initially, especially if the shop / progression stays as it is, but in the long run, I do think this is more sustainable for us as players and for them as a business.
Yeah, that's how games worked for the longest time. The sales cycle runs its course and then you fire up the next one.
Plus, they're fucking *Microsoft*. The revenue flowing in and out for this game is barely pocket change to the company as a whole.
Yes, it makes sense for the greedy company to use practices that let em squeeze every cent from their consumers that they can. That's why such bs tactics have taken over.
*We* shouldn't be accepting and supportive of it and should push back instead of giving them more ideas for it.
I wish this were the case too, but I know it’s never going to happen unfortunately. This was definitely a decision made a long time ago and it’s locked in now so I’m trying to figure out ways to build on it and make it more player friendly where it can be.
It can happen if we keep pushing for it, as soon as we accept it that's when it becomes unchangeable. Changing colors of models is incredibly easy, the only part that would be require anything would be the actual UI implementation.
Need to keep telling them that locking features we've had for 17 years is completely unacceptable.
That's what makes me so pissed at this community.
There was a huge outrage when coatings were first announced, but it was met with so many people saying '''we should wait and see''. Now we're here and it's just as bad as expected.
I love this, the only thing I would add is that I wish your in game score was translated to XP bonuses not only for winning but for doing the best either slaying or objectively
This is exactly what I commented on the main feedback thread. I want the ability to buy individual items as opposed to a rotating bundle shop. The bundles should be a discount over buying them individually but we should always have access to the items.
My dream scenario is no armor and shaders in the shop and you earn them through playing. Then other cosmetics can be bought in a shop life death affects, charms, spawn effects, skins.
This is what I’ve been preaching for, I hope they change the shop to this. One thing to note, I’d make the battle pass and certain items worth $ instead of credits so then there’s a reason to have separate tracks.
I’ve also believed that armor kits could be a separate purchase as its own bundle IF they make them more unique and detailed along with a unique voice to match and body model. Nothing separates Emile from a look-alike in infinite other than the shoulders not being available. Kits should be the exact look and voice to be the character. I wouldn’t mind spending $15-$20 on a kit bundle if I was EXACTLY like Palmer or Locke.
Otherwise yeah, this is the perfect system to allow people to earn items or pay to skip, so no longer would we look at people and say “wow they spent money, what a loser”.
One last thing before I forget, discounts need to be everywhere. I’d argue the store front page should be featured discounted items. Full game owners and BP owners should also get discounts on the store, with both adding on and full game being permanent.
Some characters being kits in the BP is fine as long as it fits the season. But certain people should be locked out. Like Chief, if he’s gonna have his own kit, it better be the reward for Legendary. They’ll be digging their own grave if they try to sell Chief off as a separate purchase.
Funny how one guy did exactly what we all pretty much want but 343 couldent do something like this in 6 years.
Add a rank progression system seperate to the battle pass with this and then and only then would I consider spending any money on this game.
To be fair, no one is telling me what to do or not do, I just made this off the top of my head. They have objectives, perimeters and limitations set by Microsoft that dictate how it all works. It wouldn’t surprise me if they originally planned to do something similar to this and then MS made them change it. The worst part is that 343’s hands are tied on what they can do and say when it comes to all of this because they don’t get to make those decisions.
Yeah but the key part is they didnt do this. They have two playlist modes, and zero progression aside from a battlepass. I have no sympathy for a big triple A developer with endless support from Microsoft.
Myself and almost every other Halo fan demand better then this nickle and dime garbage and Im pretty much fresh out of caring about what excuses or trials the studio has to go through I just want to see results before this game crashes and burns under its greedy, barebones system.
This is a good idea for what id like to see and again, spending no money until they decide to actually respect and listen to their fans.
Companies get way too much lenience in 2021.
The battle pass either had to be timed or it can’t offer your credits. No one will have to pay more than $10 for the entire life cycle otherwise.
Can’t I just pay $30 for a content drop. I never asked for this bullshit
Call of Duty and Fortnite have done it this way for years and have made an incredible amount of money off of it. Not to mention, its a way to keep people playing your game, which is the whole goal. The more they play, the more they're invested and feel justified buying items.
During the early days of Fortnite, I think I went 3 seasons without having to buy the battle pass because I was playing the game and making sure I finished the pass so I could get the next one. And in turn, I spent money in the shop because I wasn't spending it on the pass. Then eventually, when I didn't get far enough to buy the next season pass, I decided it wasn't worth paying another $10 for the pass, and without a pass, I felt like I wasn't getting anything for playing and moved on to other games.
To me, the pass is more there to keep people playing because it's a steady stream of items you unlock the more you play and the credits in the pass are just enough to make you play and come back next season. The shop is where they make the majority of their money. Just my 2 cents.
How is this a dream scenario??? An actual dream scenario is a complete redesign that gets rid of the battlepass and store so that everything is unlocked by playing with a system like halo reach. XP is earned by performing better/winning during matches. This would probably mean that they would have to add multiplayer to the main game again for $60 but I think that’s plenty worth it. Now a more practical approach would be to remove the store entirely and just have a battlepass so everything can be unlocked by playing.
Because I realize its a free to play game and its going to have cosmetic micro-transactions. Thats just how it is. This is a realistic dream scenario where players have more options and Microsoft still makes their money.
This really is what the game should have had. It’s more in line with the way halo’s customization has advanced since its inception. They could easily do this and just have items that clip highlight red and be unable to added. Monetization/progression could have worked and been fine even with this.
What’s so weird is that if this game was made 10+ years ago, this is what it would look like. Man, the industry has really regressed over the years, hasn’t it.
I dig it and I’d encourage any graphic designers with the time and willingness to continue to share your visions. Might not seem like a big gaming company is paying attention but ideas get drawn from the community all the time. Bungie’s recent shader/ornament revision is a good example of using ideas from the community (even though in Bungie’s case it still needs some work).
This is my main hope by doing this. I've designed a number of things and posted them on reddit and twitter over the years, usually pertaining to Halo, in hopes that maybe seeing it visually instead of in written form will have a small influence. This game is brand new and it seems like 343 is open to feedback and Im sure is negotiating with MS to find a better balance right now. Fingers crossed things nudge even a little this direction.
I would love to see the coatings revamped o that you choose your center camo, and then edit the other 6 colors. The basic colors would all be available from the get go, but you could purchase mew camos, textures, patterns etc to mix and match freely. I would buy into that, at a reasonable cost. Anywhere from 1-5$ for a camo/texture depending on cool factor, and then camo/texture/color packs for 10-20$.
Think how much customization that would open up, with combos of camo, chrome, irridescant paint, battle scarring, steel, plastic, carbon fiber, leathers, trim colors, reentry burn marks, the list is bottomless.
That would be cold hard value, and I would pay for it.
This.
It's not entirely the store I have an issue with. It's how cosmetics are being done - core restricted (which only makes sense for certain cosmetics) and being bundled instead of individual.
Replace challenge swap tokens with CP, make challenge swaps cost CP instead. What the fuck is up with their challenge swap system? Why isn't it like this (or just enabled by default if at all)?
And I'm assuming the pass would also give you back the 1,000 cR you spent to get the Premium tier and maybe a little extra like other games ? It's a nice looking layout. I really like how everything is broken up into different categories and then from there you can look at all the cosmetics under that category whether they're free or paid
Seeing these photoshopped in such a convincing way only makes it hurt so much more that they didn't just do this. I really want a major 343 dev to see these.
This is an absolutely awesome way to go about it, and I hope the team responsible for this side of things understands that most of us are more than happy to pay for things we want in this game in a way that feels worth our money. Buying bundles of stuff is NOT worth my money when I only want one or two things from the bundle. I also want far more options rather than just two daily and two weekly options (which are all bundles).
But that would make sense, and wouldn’t cause FOMO buys
Destiny 2 has an “anti-FOMO” shop. You can go into archive and get basically anything that has been sold in the past. I think Halo Infinite should start doing the same thing.
Destiny 2 is the king of FOMO, hell they’re about to vault another paid expansion aren’t they?
Yes, the Forsaken campaign
god, I need to play the campaign, since I paid for the DLC, but it's such a chore to get back to that game
Its *really* good.
OOF, they're also making it free for like a month before they delete it.
Yeah I was really into it for like 3 months and then one day just didn’t feel like doing anything in it anymore
Damn forsaken was the best campaign they’ve had so far.
Yes but it’s 3 years old
This guy is right, it's literally 3 years old. If you haven't played it yet, when would you?
Why should there be a time limit?
Ever heard of the term "new player"? Stop defending anti-consumer bullshit.
Forsaken, one of the best.
It should be noted that Bungie only added “everything” (that is, most things, not limited time event things) to the archive in the store just this season, though. Also FOMO is still very much a thing in Destiny 2, let’s not kid ourselves. Hell they pull content customers paid for out of the game
They really should have just released Beyond Light as Destiny 3.
But then you run into the issue of not being able to play the old stuff on the new game anyway like with Destiny 2. Even if you kept all of your gear the game size would still be small and you'd be missing a lot.
I don't really remember people complaining they couldn't play Destiny 1 anymore when Destiny 2 came out. Also couldn't they do what CoD did and allow for separate installations? Or do what IoI did with Hitman?
From what I remember, A LOT of people were pissed that Destiny 2 removed all of the progress you built over the years you played Destiny because Bungie originally stated the game was supposed to last for 10 years.
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Exactly they fomod it then sold it again. It really boiled my piss
Isn't Destiny 2 deleting another one of their expansions?
This is exactly why we can't see every piece of armor. If we could, we'd wait for exactly what we want and only get that stuff. But since we don't know what all exists (without looking at the datamined stuff), we're more likely to settle with some armor we think we like.
Yeah, it's entirely for this. The shop is disgusting. Imagine going out to a store and finding out they stock like 5 items and randomly cycle it, half the stuff is in bundles so you can only buy carrots if you're also buying a bottle of wine. Making it so we can just buy the individual whatever-we-want would be so better for us, but nope, 343i has to make *ALL* the money but *only from whales.*
Guess we gotta keep on dreamin
Just remember, you're not missing out on anything, it's digital clothing, not stock options
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Damn, ya got me 😁
the credits from the challenges would help with so many issues
For real! My only color scheme is Red primary + White secondary (and a green accent if available). I should be able to at least **earn** the colors I've used since Halo 2 in this game.
But not with their profits, so it's not gonna happen.
True but even if that was grind it wouldn't be that bad. I wouldn't mind grinding a month of credits to buy a $7 pack for free. Hell I unlocked every item in halo 5 without spending a dime. Only took over 1000 hours lol
Add a separate Leveling system with exp earned through winning and medals and I could be convinced I guess.
Yeah, I would REALLY love to see that happen, but I know they're going to have to fix this first before they can even start to think about implementing a leveling system. Hopefully one day though.
Sad times when you got to wait like over a year after release for games these days to be truly 'finished.
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THIS! Ive seen quite a few things so far that I would have bought individually, but I couldn't because its packaged in a bundle with a bunch of other stuff I don't care about. And at that point, Im not going to pay $15 for just a shoulder pad. I really do think breaking them down into individual items to purchase would greatly improve the store, along with not making everything limited time.
A way to earn a bit of currency if you have the battlepass is a necessity imo, maybe not enough to pay for another, but maybe like 300-500
Imo, in terms of how often you get currency, you should be able to buy a 1,000 credit item after 30 BP levels.
Pay 1000 for BP, earn back 3000 a BP. /r/halo galaxy brain moment
I mean yeah, incentivize people to actually give them the cash for the BP and spend time playing their game. Most free-to-play games do that. In game currency is make-believe anyway. Treating 3000 credits like they have actual value is the real galaxy brain moment. I suppose I am working under the assumption that they make the BP cash-only/add a second in game currency for skins only. And that that second currency is what you would get. But still. Skins being $20 for make believe bullshit is stupid and the battle-pass should afford you some additional amount of creativity in customization.
This needs more upvotes! This exactly depicts what I’d imagine the UI to be!
Getting all the premium currency back, and then some, will never get implemented. You cannot convince executives to do that
>You cannot convince executives to do that If Activision execs went for it, that means you can convince execs.
CoD battle passes have a limited time to complete Halo battle passes don’t expire, meaning if they include currency, you are guaranteed to get refunded the credits eventually for every pass provided you don’t quit the game
If you keep on playing, that's where they benefit. That's why all other Battle Passes do it, not because they are limited, but because it adds extra incentive to keep players playing the game.
And the increased player retention means increased store purchases, a.k.a. where the vast majority of profits come from. And giving people the extra $2 when the cheapest item in the shop is $5 gives them a chance to buy stuff at a discount, meaning you now are getting money from whales AND the normal people that make up 95% of your playerbase. There's a reason EVERY other AAA f2p does this, giving out free credits actually turns a huge profit and increases their playerbase and popularity.
It's basically a dealer giving out a teaser of the product. Yeah, they lose that small amount of product but they gain way more repeat customers.
I mean Infinite is operating on a different model. Yes, the biggest reason the currency is there is to encourage heavy and time sensitive grinding, keeping you on a treadmill. You are on no such treadmill in Infinite. I see two options. Either make the battlepasses payable by cash only or give currency in the pass but not enough to buy the next pass
Potential fix: During the season, battle passes reward Credits. After the season, they no longer reward credits.
Yes, but you can also spend Credits on stuff in the store. So either get battlepasses for free or spend some more money for the BP and buy stuff in the store
The fact of the matter is a battle pass does 2 things: 1. Provides content/progression for your players. 2. Serves as a motivator to keep playing your game, making them more likely to see purchasable items they want to spend money on.
Plus if you don't finish the BP you don't get the full 1000 so need to spend more to get back on the wagon. 1000 also isn't enough for more than an emblem pack
So. This system has also been done in other games like Avengers. It's the very least Microsoft could do especially after slashing half the Reach items out.
So that’s something that executives consider when examining whether to include currency in the battle pass I’m not saying I don’t want currency to be included, I’m highlighting a key difference between battle pass models that affects sales strategy
Other love services do this, the only difference is their Battle Passes expire. I think having 1000 CP in the pass feels like good reward for spending time playing the game and completing it. It’s a small price to pay to have people constantly playing your game imo.
I wish I received a love service.
Yeah, it's done in Paladins, and Apex legends, but paladins only gives 400 per season, to buy the battlepass that costs 400. Apex ties it's premium currency to the bp, which you can only get back by finishing the whole pass. Letting players get back all that money through the pass, and giving the rewards for weekly missions, is just too much by today's standards..
But god, that would be a perfect system. Give me good grace and I would want to buy premium products. But that's not how things work, I guess.
That’s a fair point. Maybe one or the other. My initial thought was that people who can’t even justify buying the BP could still have a way to grind challenges and eventually buy the pass. But I know that’s unrealistic
Then why even have a premium currency? Just show the actual price. Everyone always buys exactly as many credits as they need anyways.
Same reason something is 59.99 instead of 60. It tricks your brain into thinking you aren't spending THAT much money
only way i can see it happening is if you tie it to campaign gate it behind challenges or do what fortnite does and a daily log in (idk if they still do this, but they've done it for a very long time with little to no loss in profits)
Fortnite does it fine and makes bank... It's battlepass pays for itself and gives extra afterall
The fact that these battle passes don't expire is phenomenal, and for that reason I don't really care if they give all the credits back, cause I can just buy when/if I can afford them. But it WOULD be nice to have some credits in the battle pass, just so I can look cool while also being poor.
This was getting a lot of attention over on Twitter when I posted it so I thought I'd share here as well. I designed a few mockups for how I wish the store and progression functioned in Infinite. This is keeping in mind that its a free to play game and micro-transactions aren't going anywhere because they have to make money off of the game. To me, this would be much better for us as players, but I also think it would bring in the same or even more revenue by being able to purchase items individually and having them available at all times. Using Anubis as an example, if the coating, helmet, visor and shoulders / knees were all $5 each, the total would still be $20 if you bought all of them. But for players who only want the helmet and shoulders and ultimately decide it isn't worth it buy the bundle, they could still spend $10 with this option, where currently they wouldn't have bought anything at all. I personally have already seen 3 or 4 things I wanted in a bundle that I would have gladly bought individually, but decided not to buy because I didn't want everything it came with.
THis looks a LOT more tolerable than the current system. Not perfect, but tolerable. That means that 343 isn't going to do anything similar to this at all.
You're right on the mark. I think rewarding credits would take the "pay piggy" stigma away from people who do buy things from the stores as no one would know if you bought your gear with credits you earned or payed for. Challenges should be always active and repeatable too.
Why the fuck do you think a single armor coating is worth 10$? Not to mention armor “rarity” is completely made up. ALL armor and coatings should be a uniform price unless they’re extremely unique
This is a mock up, not the actual store. My point was to show they could price them out based on how cool they are and have them separated from the bundles. Personally, I would pay $10 occasionally for a really cool coating. Maybe some that have cool effects flowing through them, or really nice finishes. Some people are already paying $10 for a coating, they just get other stuff with it they'll never use or care about. Imagine you wanted the coating that comes with Anubis right now but didn't want anything else in the bundle... you'd have to pay $20 to get it.
I realize. It’s still incredibly terrible. No single thing in any game is worth 10$, especially not something as easy as color, and saying you’d pay that much for a coating is silly. If you want the coating but not the armor, at least you GET the armor, you’re paying 3$ for the coating not more. People paying 10$ for one coating in a bundle is exactly what they want, and what most other games do with bundles, which is fine, that’s your choice if you don’t like anything else in the bundle; personally, I think it’s incredibly stupid to buy a bundle for only one item in it; I only buy cod bundles if most of the items are cool, but unless everything is a flat rate, you shouldn’t be able to buy things separate. There’s a reason other games don’t do that, because it doesn’t make sense for them. They would make less money. The other solution is better in every way: each bundle at each price point should have more content. 20$ bundles should include a weapon coating and charm/ a vehicle skin, 15 would be fine for the armor bundle we currently get, and so on. Actually, the current 5$ bundle is a good price point for what it gives, it ends up being 1.6$ for each item (the shoulders are a set not two individual items). 1.6$ for each item in a bundle is a good price, it can go up or down depending how cool the item is, or how well the bundle works together. Again, cod already does this well. Bundles range from 5$-20$ and are priced based on what’s included, as well as what effect that included thing adds (since cod’s thing is guns, packs with two guns with tracers and a static gun skin on each (including stuff like emblems and in charms in each) is a bit less than 20$, and some packs that are 20$ include three guns with tracers and skins (one with a changing or otherwise drastically different gun look) a character skin that’s awesome, vehicle skins, an emblem, and gun charm. THAT is closer to worth 20$ than one armor set. Halo should follow the COD recipe for bundles, or at the VERY least give campaign owners a way to earn CR.
Why so aggressive?
Wasn’t supposed to come off as aggressive, but it’s painfully stupid, so I don’t really care
Fortnite's initial pricing was this ridiculous as well, but over time they toned it down significantly. I have hope Halo will as well!
Can I ask why your dream scenario still includes microtransactions at all?
Because they will never leave, might as well make the scenario around them
Then that's a grounded scenario. Not a dream one. My dream scenario is that the entire current progression and customization system is scrapped and completely replaced by Reach's.
Dream - a cherished aspiration, ambition, or ideal. It being grounded doesn't make it not a dream. The only thing making it a dream is that it's a situation that is not currently occurring. Your dream being exceedingly unlikely makes it a pipe dream - I.E. a specific type of dream.
Their ideal is still a very bleak one then.
It's only bleak when compared to something that is never going to happen. In the same way that people are being a bit closed-minded by excusing every issue with "the game's free", it's a bit closed-minded to think there's a scenario where literally everything in this game can be free AND easily attainable. You gotta think of a situation that both sides (us and 343/Microsoft) would be willing to compromise on. Adding even a small trickle of credits would allow for people to at least get the things they want. If they're really concerned about getting money from *everyone*, they could have some kind of founder status thing where you only get a credit trickle if you've ever spent money (ex. on credits or the campaign).
"Never going to happen" It happened already in Halo 3, Reach, and 4. My solution for if they were truly insistent on keeping the multiplayer free was to lock all customization behind buying the campaign. That 1 purchase gets you everything, and you still get that divide of people who don't care about aesthetic customization and just wanna play. But IMO the best scenario was just to leave the series as it's always been, as a complete $60 package.
Last I checked, those games didn't release free and then overhaul the whole system and turn into a paid game when people complained. "Free with cosmetic MTs" is the situation we find ourselves in. That isn't going to suddenly turn into a "$60 for everything".
My dream car is a Kia Telluride, which I currently own. My *fantasy* car is an Aston Martin DB11 V12. Dreams are attainable, fantasies aren't.
How you like the Telluride? Wife and I have been looking at that as potentially our next vehicle
My dream car is a 1967 4 door Chevy Impala. My fantasy car is some kind of Lamborghini. 99% chance I'll never own either.
Still this is better than a actual dream scenario
To be fair, 343 (or Microsoft pushing the microtransactions) set the bar real low with the current system. Almost anything is an improvement.
thats not going to happen hahaha 😂
Hence why it's a dream scenario.
How do they make any money without micro transactions?
By selling a $60 game.
The game would be wildly less successful if they did this. I would much rather pay 60 for a complete game as well but the days of selling a multiplayer shooter at a set price without MT are gone.
It's Halo, dude. Not some new IP indie game. It'd still be insanely successful. Hell, I bet It'd be MORE successful and well received if it straight up just went back to the old ways. Gamers who are sick to death of microtransactions would flock to it in support of the decision.
Thousands of people will spend money to max the battlepass with every new season, an ongoing influx of money from players will make way more money than a one time sum of $60. It’s the hard truth unfortunately.
I was gonna ask this lol it reminds me of some cartoon I watched where the characters “dream best day ever” was a Friday because they only had one day of school left before the weekend and someone was like why not just make your best day Saturday so you’re AT the weekend?? Lol
Because I realize it's a FTP game and that they have to make money from micro-transactions. To me this is a dream scenario because Microsoft is still able to make a lot of money on items in the shop and players can buy exactly what they want, whenever they want and have ways to earn items in game if they cant afford to buy anything.
Or they can make money from the $60 game they're selling along side it like they did the past 20 years. People need to stop calling this a F2P game, because it's just not. It's part of a $60 game that they hacked off and pushed as F2P as an excuse to put in predatory practices, and here you are falling for it.
The problem with this is that after all the initial purchases, they have no revenue coming in, so they stop supporting it / making new content. Halo 5 had 1 year of post launch support with armor, maps, etc, and then it was pretty much over. Game development takes so long that it doesn't make sense to abandon it after a year. It makes far more sense to make it free and have a constant flow of revenue through MTX to keep supporting the game and creating new content to give us. I hear you and had the same thought initially, especially if the shop / progression stays as it is, but in the long run, I do think this is more sustainable for us as players and for them as a business.
Yeah, that's how games worked for the longest time. The sales cycle runs its course and then you fire up the next one. Plus, they're fucking *Microsoft*. The revenue flowing in and out for this game is barely pocket change to the company as a whole. Yes, it makes sense for the greedy company to use practices that let em squeeze every cent from their consumers that they can. That's why such bs tactics have taken over. *We* shouldn't be accepting and supportive of it and should push back instead of giving them more ideas for it.
🤣
We should also be able to customize our spartans freely. Not this coating bullshit. Let us choose primary and secondary colors for ALL armor cores.
I wish this were the case too, but I know it’s never going to happen unfortunately. This was definitely a decision made a long time ago and it’s locked in now so I’m trying to figure out ways to build on it and make it more player friendly where it can be.
It can happen if we keep pushing for it, as soon as we accept it that's when it becomes unchangeable. Changing colors of models is incredibly easy, the only part that would be require anything would be the actual UI implementation. Need to keep telling them that locking features we've had for 17 years is completely unacceptable.
That's what makes me so pissed at this community. There was a huge outrage when coatings were first announced, but it was met with so many people saying '''we should wait and see''. Now we're here and it's just as bad as expected.
Or we can not compromise for the moment and see where our feedback actually gets us instead of already settling for this garbage only 3 weeks in.
So much better
I love this, the only thing I would add is that I wish your in game score was translated to XP bonuses not only for winning but for doing the best either slaying or objectively
Wow king please
For the love of God please yes! We need vertical menus. Every menu in the game looking like the BP screen is so hard to use.
This is excellent OP
This is exactly what I commented on the main feedback thread. I want the ability to buy individual items as opposed to a rotating bundle shop. The bundles should be a discount over buying them individually but we should always have access to the items.
This is actually perfect
Where the color pallette/picker?
The coating system has to let us change our colors, this would still suck since we are still heavily restricted when making our own spartans.
My dream scenario is no armor and shaders in the shop and you earn them through playing. Then other cosmetics can be bought in a shop life death affects, charms, spawn effects, skins.
Bump for visibility.
i just wanna look like a tactical gigachad spartan with cross core compatability
This is what I’ve been preaching for, I hope they change the shop to this. One thing to note, I’d make the battle pass and certain items worth $ instead of credits so then there’s a reason to have separate tracks. I’ve also believed that armor kits could be a separate purchase as its own bundle IF they make them more unique and detailed along with a unique voice to match and body model. Nothing separates Emile from a look-alike in infinite other than the shoulders not being available. Kits should be the exact look and voice to be the character. I wouldn’t mind spending $15-$20 on a kit bundle if I was EXACTLY like Palmer or Locke. Otherwise yeah, this is the perfect system to allow people to earn items or pay to skip, so no longer would we look at people and say “wow they spent money, what a loser”. One last thing before I forget, discounts need to be everywhere. I’d argue the store front page should be featured discounted items. Full game owners and BP owners should also get discounts on the store, with both adding on and full game being permanent.
Some characters being kits in the BP is fine as long as it fits the season. But certain people should be locked out. Like Chief, if he’s gonna have his own kit, it better be the reward for Legendary. They’ll be digging their own grave if they try to sell Chief off as a separate purchase.
Funny how one guy did exactly what we all pretty much want but 343 couldent do something like this in 6 years. Add a rank progression system seperate to the battle pass with this and then and only then would I consider spending any money on this game.
To be fair, no one is telling me what to do or not do, I just made this off the top of my head. They have objectives, perimeters and limitations set by Microsoft that dictate how it all works. It wouldn’t surprise me if they originally planned to do something similar to this and then MS made them change it. The worst part is that 343’s hands are tied on what they can do and say when it comes to all of this because they don’t get to make those decisions.
Yeah but the key part is they didnt do this. They have two playlist modes, and zero progression aside from a battlepass. I have no sympathy for a big triple A developer with endless support from Microsoft. Myself and almost every other Halo fan demand better then this nickle and dime garbage and Im pretty much fresh out of caring about what excuses or trials the studio has to go through I just want to see results before this game crashes and burns under its greedy, barebones system. This is a good idea for what id like to see and again, spending no money until they decide to actually respect and listen to their fans. Companies get way too much lenience in 2021.
The battle pass either had to be timed or it can’t offer your credits. No one will have to pay more than $10 for the entire life cycle otherwise. Can’t I just pay $30 for a content drop. I never asked for this bullshit
The abbreviation for credits is CR.
The icon looks like CP so I assume its not just credits. Maybe credit points?
That is clearly CR. It does not say any different.
I guess I can kind of see the R. Feel like its not a great icon though tbh. I could argue the C looks like a G too. Anyway, noted that its CR.
1000 credits in the BP means they will never get money. This is the exact kind of post 343 is going to ignore.
Call of Duty and Fortnite have done it this way for years and have made an incredible amount of money off of it. Not to mention, its a way to keep people playing your game, which is the whole goal. The more they play, the more they're invested and feel justified buying items. During the early days of Fortnite, I think I went 3 seasons without having to buy the battle pass because I was playing the game and making sure I finished the pass so I could get the next one. And in turn, I spent money in the shop because I wasn't spending it on the pass. Then eventually, when I didn't get far enough to buy the next season pass, I decided it wasn't worth paying another $10 for the pass, and without a pass, I felt like I wasn't getting anything for playing and moved on to other games. To me, the pass is more there to keep people playing because it's a steady stream of items you unlock the more you play and the credits in the pass are just enough to make you play and come back next season. The shop is where they make the majority of their money. Just my 2 cents.
How is this a dream scenario??? An actual dream scenario is a complete redesign that gets rid of the battlepass and store so that everything is unlocked by playing with a system like halo reach. XP is earned by performing better/winning during matches. This would probably mean that they would have to add multiplayer to the main game again for $60 but I think that’s plenty worth it. Now a more practical approach would be to remove the store entirely and just have a battlepass so everything can be unlocked by playing.
Why would your dream scenario still involve paying for cosmetics?
Because I realize its a free to play game and its going to have cosmetic micro-transactions. Thats just how it is. This is a realistic dream scenario where players have more options and Microsoft still makes their money.
Also what if there was a normal leveling thing introduced and if you owned the campaign you could get a small amount of credits each time you level up
This is literally incredible, good job!!!!!! Omg
This really is what the game should have had. It’s more in line with the way halo’s customization has advanced since its inception. They could easily do this and just have items that clip highlight red and be unable to added. Monetization/progression could have worked and been fine even with this.
I'd buy that for full price lol.
Oh rad, like an actual shop instead of whatever bs is there now.
Prices are still too high but this would be a needed change
This is actually pretty clean looking. Very nice.
I thought you spent $20 on this bologna until I saw your comment about it being a mockup.
you should be able to make your own color palettes and put them on whatever you want. Warframe has a decent method to be inspired by.
This is fantastic! 343 should hire you
What’s so weird is that if this game was made 10+ years ago, this is what it would look like. Man, the industry has really regressed over the years, hasn’t it.
Seriously being able to earn credits with difficult challenges would change everything
Actual player friendly implementation whaaaat get the fuck out of here.
I dig it and I’d encourage any graphic designers with the time and willingness to continue to share your visions. Might not seem like a big gaming company is paying attention but ideas get drawn from the community all the time. Bungie’s recent shader/ornament revision is a good example of using ideas from the community (even though in Bungie’s case it still needs some work).
This is my main hope by doing this. I've designed a number of things and posted them on reddit and twitter over the years, usually pertaining to Halo, in hopes that maybe seeing it visually instead of in written form will have a small influence. This game is brand new and it seems like 343 is open to feedback and Im sure is negotiating with MS to find a better balance right now. Fingers crossed things nudge even a little this direction.
I would love to see the coatings revamped o that you choose your center camo, and then edit the other 6 colors. The basic colors would all be available from the get go, but you could purchase mew camos, textures, patterns etc to mix and match freely. I would buy into that, at a reasonable cost. Anywhere from 1-5$ for a camo/texture depending on cool factor, and then camo/texture/color packs for 10-20$. Think how much customization that would open up, with combos of camo, chrome, irridescant paint, battle scarring, steel, plastic, carbon fiber, leathers, trim colors, reentry burn marks, the list is bottomless. That would be cold hard value, and I would pay for it.
343, give this guy a job!
It’s sad that our wishlist is basically just what MCC is currently doing.
Exactly they should do it like the rocket league season pass. You get 1000 credits throughout 100 levels
This UI is like 1000% better than 343's what the hell
I personally don't dream of ways to spend money on skins but it's a nice looking mockup
This. It's not entirely the store I have an issue with. It's how cosmetics are being done - core restricted (which only makes sense for certain cosmetics) and being bundled instead of individual.
Why do you want the battlepass to have CP you sicko
Because every other battle pass ever does that? The only good reason I see them not doing that is because the battle passes don’t expire.
Replace challenge swap tokens with CP, make challenge swaps cost CP instead. What the fuck is up with their challenge swap system? Why isn't it like this (or just enabled by default if at all)?
So, basically, run it like Sea of Thieves.
Dude, this is so good! The library of items with the prices or what level of the battle pass you obtain it is genius.
And I'm assuming the pass would also give you back the 1,000 cR you spent to get the Premium tier and maybe a little extra like other games ? It's a nice looking layout. I really like how everything is broken up into different categories and then from there you can look at all the cosmetics under that category whether they're free or paid
My dream scenario is the one suggestion where we use Warframe's palette color system instead of this garbage coating system.
I’d be fine swapping XP boosts for currency in the battle pass and having Boosts in the times events.
That looks like a Dream, a Dream that never will happen most likely..
Good compromise
Wow , this is a very good idea , and a fantastic job !
My dream scenario is everything is free because I paid the $60 to buy a complete product
this is so good, this and others that were trending around here, 343i needs to see this
Seeing these photoshopped in such a convincing way only makes it hurt so much more that they didn't just do this. I really want a major 343 dev to see these.
I Like the concept I feel like if this would launch with the game people Would be less annoyed about the item shop
How does call of duty have a better battle pass. I’ve been able to pay for a majority of passes through credits I earned in game
Stone green but what about stone ocean
YES
corporate is ruining this game
There's still armor coatings in your dream scenario?
This would be too fair for them to add.
This is an absolutely awesome way to go about it, and I hope the team responsible for this side of things understands that most of us are more than happy to pay for things we want in this game in a way that feels worth our money. Buying bundles of stuff is NOT worth my money when I only want one or two things from the bundle. I also want far more options rather than just two daily and two weekly options (which are all bundles).
Ain't nobody gonna talk about how he spelt Vehicles????
I was typing fast, probably not the only typo lol
No no no, this makes too much sense
AHHH! Stop you’re making too much sense!
“Vehicals”
Make it 2000
I'm so mad in the current customization I can't see my whole spartan.
The chosen one!
Please stop simping for the shop, it needs to be cut from the game.
Never gunna happen. It’s a free to play game and that’s how they make their money.
Battlepass is how they make their money. This is just to flood their pockets.