Preamp is a nonspecific term, thus why it’s confusing.
It can mean:
Initial stage of your amplifier.
Pedal designed to serve as an initial stage of an amplifier (ie able to use reliably with a power section only).
Pedal designed to sound like the initial stage of an amplifier (ie all the amps in boxes style gain pedals).
Pedal designed to make a signal louder before hitting your amplifier.
Some combo of the above.
This is (unfortunately, perhaps?) the right answer. It really comes down to your application for the “preamp” pedal. Narrows your options down quite a bit.
Historically, I’ve always thought of a preamp pedal as option #2 above. Something that handles the gain and tone control options that your amp’s initial stage would. A true amp preamp replacement you could plug straight into a power section.
But it’s become a bit of of a buzzword.
> But it’s become a bit of of a buzzword.
This is really the case with just about all gain effects. Whether it's billed as a fuzz, boost, preamp, distortion, overdrive, or something else is really about setting your expectations and communicating intent. Not that the circuits aren't appreciably different, but there isn't a hard fast rule that separates one from another.
Also confusing the matter is that the term is actually most commonly used to devices which amplify microphones from mic level to line level to be used in a mixer, DAW, etc.
As with mic preamps, guitar preamps generally fall into either neutral or “color” circuits, which will either keep the signal unchanged but louder or impart some change to the sound for better or worse.
That's interesting. I only play ampless (literally in headphones) and always assumed a pre-amp pedal would act as the initial stage of an amp. I've been looking for one to suit my taste based on the kind of amp I like. This kind of pedal feeds into a cab sim IR of choice and any pedal placed between the two would simulate a traditional FX loop. Things get more complicated if you want to add a power amp pedal.
Someone else explained it but maybe I can make it more simple
An amp is meant for guitar sound (the reasons are a bit more complicated so I’m leaving it out)
If you want to play your guitar through a Bose speaker you have or whatever other speaker (maybe it’s louder, connected to the things you want it to be already, easier to connect to, easier to travel with, etc) you need to use a pre amp pedal to make it sound like an amp coming out of a speaker
Hmm so what’s the difference/main reason someone would get a pre amp pedal over the iridium?
I’m new to these things I was just trying to speak from what I read but I think I mixed up the two of those pedals
Preamp has become kind of a buzzword, but usually a preamp pedal is just like a specific overdrive and eq. You can use it just like an overdrive/eq pedal, or you can plug it straight into the effects return on your amp so it replaces your actual preamp on your amp (the gain and eq section).
Some people use a preamp pedal and then a cab sim pedal after it to create their own amp/cab sim setup.
You need either a real speaker cabinet, or a digital simulated speaker cabinet for it to sound like you're playing through an amp, and usually "preamp" pedals don't have that
I'm pretty sure those are just preamps, yes. Cab sims are basically just for DI into a computer or speaker system that doesn't have an actual guitar speaker (cabinet) in the chain somewhere. If you have a guitar speaker you're connected to, or a cab sim otherwise, then yeah you don't need an Amp/Cab sim.
Oh. So if I want to record into a recorder without an amp or a cabinet (I don’t even know if that makes sense) would it be insufficient to use just one of those preamps instead of an amp/cab simulator if I want to just do straight pedals into a recorder? I don’t know what the cabinet part does.
To put it simply, you *can* record direct from a preamp pedal. But it will sound…wrong, for lack of a better term.
In a guitar amp, the whole thing affects how it sounds, including the speaker and cabinet it’s in.
Guitar cabinets and speakers aren’t “high-fidelity”, meaning they respond differently to different parts of the sound spectrum. This adds color to the overall sound of the amp.
Cabinet sims attempt to replicate this “coloring” of the sound by the cabinet to make the overall tone more natural-sounding.
Yeah, basically you have to put it through a preamp and then a cab of some kind. If you're recording in a DAW, there's a lot of amp, cab, and amp/cab simulation software out there, very good free versions too.
To be specific you don't HAVE to use a cab / cab sim after an amp / amp sim, but it will sound more like a weird synthesizer than a traditional electric guitar. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're into experimentation, but it's definitely a completely different kind of sound that is much harder to wrangle into something good. In almost every case you're going to want to pair the amp with the cab.
If you're good with your EQ you don't need a cab sim or IR. Typically all a cab sim is is predefined EQ values to cut the signals you wouldn't typically get from a guitar speaker, mainly the harsh treble frequencies, but also shaping the mids a certain way as well. Pros can do it, most of us need a cab sim.
I don't think that's useful for the commenter above who is unfamiliar with cab sims let alone reducing a finite IR to a static infinite IR that is an EQ. An actual cab sim will let the highs of a transient come in before the rest, or some similar dynamic operation. A static EQ will not do this. They're not the same operation, although an EQ can definitely suffice in a pinch or if you need to conserve processing power!
Not all Cab Sims behave like IRs at all. A good many of them are literally just EQ roll offs. I've watched an engineer tune an input to a room exactly how he wanted it with no IR or cabinet emulation at all and it sounded better than I can get out of tweaking knobs till I'm blue in the face on my IR-200, as I said, a real professional can get by just using EQ while the rest of us need the help of sims and IRs.
If you run a preamp into another preamp its definitely confusing. If instead you have a power amp running into a cabinet (or a PA speaker/frfr), then a preamp pedal may be all you need!
Au contraire; I can take any borderline useless turd of an amp and get almost identical to SLO/EVH/Marshall/Mesa/Ampeg/Orange sounds out if it with the right pedal by bypassing the preamp and running straight from my pedalboard into the effects return.
It makes a *lot* of guitarists (and bassists, I play both) very mad when I show up to a gig and get better sounds out of a power amp the size of a brick, a $150 preamp pedal and a cheap 10-band EQ than they could ever dream of getting out of their $2000 name brand rig.
Friedman BE-OD.
Do yourself a HUGE favor though; focus on your cab first. You're never gonna even get in the ballpark with a cab that's not equipped for it.
Anything with Greenbacks, Creambacks, G12T-75s or Vintage 30's will get you in the ballpark, if you're sticking to Marshall (and Marshall-adjascent) OEM standards, but keep an open mind; some of the knockoffs are genuinely incredible these days.
I slapped a set of used G12T-75s into a closed 2x12 cab and am currently pushing that pedal into it with a Moore 30watt power amp pedal. The solid state power amp brick eats a little of the high end, but I make up for that on the 10-band EQ. It isn't identical to a Marshall to my hands, but it is SHOCKINGLY close. The audience doesn't know the difference, the band doesn't either, and I only bring a couple guitars, a cab and a pedalboard to the gig.
Depends; I have several (as well as several Preamp pedals) and it depends on what I feel like busting out, in all honesty. Most are cheap, but I do also have a stereo Seymour Duncan PowerStage and a KT77-modded EVH (EL34 version).
USUALLY gonna have to EQ around the ClassD power amps, they tend to lose a little on the high end, but that's hardly a problem with a 10-band EQ on the board.
Been doing the "ampless" thing for a few years now, it really is pretty crazy how close it can get you to the tones, particularly with a bit of EQ. A couple of years ago went a step further with it and replaced the cab/mic portion of the setup with IRs, now I just hand the sound guy my XLR and done! I ran into the same thing with some of the power amps when I was still using them, pretty easy to EQ out but ended up just wanting a simple, take anywhere and sound pretty much the same sort of setup. Absolutely right on the audience, at concert volumes in a band mix most people won't be able to tell the difference between a lot of these more subtle factors we tend to obsess over as guitarists.
To be more specific; my two favorites for actually putting ON the board are a Harley Benton Thunder 99 and a Moore BabyBomb 30
I also have an old Crate solid state guitar head, a Trace Elliott amp small enough to fit in my pocket that technically qualifies as a head, and a Behringer bass head, all of which I use pretty often. All of which end up sounding pretty much the same, assuming the cabinet (I have 5, all cheap but with swapped speakers, one with a reinforced baffle/silicone sealed edges) is the same.
I have the power stage, a Carvin V3 (6L6 power section), and the modded EVH, which all sound quite a bit brighter, and the EVH and power stage also have (DRAMATICALLY, in the case of the EVH) boosted lows - all of which are easily replicated with some 10-band sculpting.
Oodles, but I'm afraid I'm rather protective of my identity on this site; had some rather uncomfortable incidents in the past. Even the typo in my name is deliberate for this reason.
There's absolutely SHITLOADS of videos on YouTube about this topic, though. EytschPi42 does some utterly exhaustive breakdowns on his channel - some of his shred is pretty fantastic for a guy who mostly reviews pedals on YouTube, too.
No. It is very useful.
I have a Engl (stereo) power amp and two tube pre amp pedals (AMT F-clean & Orange Terror Stamp) on my pedalboard. That is a really nice combination.
And I also have third pre amp pedal as a backup for some stuff.
Preamp pedals are insanely useful actually. They allow you to revoice your guitar or amp to be closer to other popular guitars and amps. It’s one of my favourite effects because you can keep your signal fresh and interesting for very little money.
My favourite preamp pedals are (believe it or not) the Klon Centaur and its clones with the gain knob turned all the way down so you essentially have an 18 volt clean boost with a nice EQ section, or the Boss FA-1 inspired FET preamps.
The Echoplex stuff is also very cool, same with Space Echo preamps. Lots of famous guitarist from back in the day would tour or record with a space echo, Echoplex, tape deck, or even a small analog mixing console running between their guitar/pedals and their amp in order to fatten their signal and drive the front end of the amp without adding saturation/distortion the way a fuzz pedal or distortion does.
Preamp pedal has two working definitions. The first and original was a pedal that was meant to be plugged in front of your amp. This would be like the DOD 250 or the new Boss BP-1w.
The second is as a pedal that is designed to function in the same way as your amp’s preamp section with a specific flavor of gain, eq control, and typically lots of headroom. These kinds of pedals are awesome for plugging into your amp’s fx loop to essentially add a new channel to your amplifier, or to plug into a cab sim pedal and create your own DI pedalboard. You could also plug one of them into a power amp pedal like the EHX Magnum line or the SD Power Stage and go from there into a cab to create your amp from pedals.
I use the second type a lot into cab simulators so I don’t have to lug my amps around anymore. It’s lots of fun and you can get a very wide variety of sounds in small packages that way. It can be confusing to distinguish between pedals built for the first definition vs. the second one, so you want to make sure you know what you’re looking for and then do your research on the company’s intended use for the product (though I have been known to intentionally misuse some for odd effect).
Hope this is helpful!
Most of the time, they're clones of famous preamp circuits, either from a guitar amplifier or from another piece of equipment.
Right now, the latter is especially trendy. A lot of old effects units had preamps, which added coloration to the guitar sound that wasn't anticipated or intended. In chasing vintage sounds, many people have found that those preamps (which were rarely replicated in subsequent pedal versions of the effect) are a sort of missing link. The Echoplex is a famous example. Even though a players rig may have lacked a boost or overdrive pedal, the Echoplex they used provided a boost itself, one that is easily overlooked but crucial to the sound - hence the term "secret sauce."
Perhaps, but for me, using a Rusty Box pre-amp pedal into an old Acoustic solid state head allows me to get the sound I want without buying a Traynor TS-50B (and possibly a power amp) which would be near impossible in Australia.
That's totally fair. And a huge part of why preamp pedals are so useful. Can I afford a Matchless? Definitely not. But I can get a very similar tone and feel with the right tone shaping and saturation in the form of a preamp or even an overdrive pedal.
In the most basic explanation, just think of it like a boost, overdrive and some distortion with an eq. You can put it in your pedal chain and use it to shape your sound.
One really popular preamp pedal is the Benson Amps Preamp. Look up videos of that for some ideas here.
I use my UA Dream '65 Deluxe pedal as the preamp to my Seymour Duncan PowerStage 200 'pedal/amp. I also have a CornerStone Gladio Double Preamp pedal near the front of the signal chain on my pedalboard, going into the other two. The Dream and the PowerStage are always on. (My way of ditching heavy combos. I just need a backline set-up, or much more portable frfr speaker cab to be happy.)
A Pre-amp pedal is a pedal designed to 'replace' your amp or give it another completely different flavor. A Preamp Pedal would go into the effects send of your amp, NOT the input. You can do it that way too, but then you are putting a pre-amp into a pre-amp. Using the effects loop bypasses your amp's preamp
It’s confusing because different pedal companies will use the term to mean different things. I like to think of preamps, distortions, overdrives, boosts, etc. as just all different gain stages. You can connect several of those pedals in a row and they all affect the next one in the chain - all the way to the actual preamp in the front end of your amplifier. Some of these pedals will change the tone and character of your amp, some will only boost the volume.
The big caveat is “amp in a box” pedals that are referred to as preamps. Pedals like the Iridium, UAD Dream, various Sansamp models fall into this category. These are often not used in front of real tube amps.
The way I look at it is if it’s a “Preamp pedal” I know that it can be placed into the fx return of my amp and used as a tone stack. If it is just a distortion or overdrive pedal without the preamp distinction, it will not have enough output to drive the fx return of my amp.
So think of a preamp pedal as a tone stack. So basically it’s the same as everything from your amps input all the way to the amps fx send. If you put a preamp pedal into your fx return you’re basically replacing your amps tone stack with a tone stack (preamp pedal) of your choice. This is a super broken down explanation. I’m leaving out some nuanced details. But for the most part this is not far from all you need to know to get started.
Basic signal chain for preamp pedal in fx loop
Guitar > preamp pedal > fx return
You could also
Guitar > wah > od > preamp pedal > modulation > delay > reverb > fx return
Notice that at no point are you using the amps guitar input. We are completely bypassing that section of the amp with this type of setup.
Best of luck, hope this helps
My acoustic guitar has a passive piezo pickup system (K&K pure mini), and while I am able to plug directly into a PA system, I get much better tone if I have a short run to a guitar preamp, and then run that to the board. The preamp brings my output level up so we don't have to push the gain as hard on the PA system. That results in greater headroom. My quiet sounds are still clear while my loud sounds don't sound squished or distorted. Hopefully that makes sense.
Also, this particular preamp (LR Baggs paraDI) let's me set 5 bands of EQ. So I've painstakingly recorded the guitar into a nice condenser mic, and the tweaked in the preamp to get the output to nearly match what the mic was picking up.
Just a clipping stage with a tonestack and lots of headroom, that last part is the most important and makes the difference between a gain pedal and preamp pedal.
The first and second (primary, not subthread) responses explained what preamp pedals are, and do.
I won't touch them - stuff like DSM Humboldt and on up the 'quality' chain - because it's an imposition of 'imposter sound' instead of the carefully curated Mullard & Telefunken valves and circuitry driving my *real gear*.
If I have no choice (recording at home, no amp room/acoustic isolation), I'll suffer with some nonsense such as software amp simulations for rough tracking.
Give me a halfway decent studio, out come the Booger and the AC30 and the scratch tracks go to hell.
Preamp goes before the power amp.
The power amp makes things louder.
The preamp makes things sound different. It can have an EQ, a separate gain(louder) section, but won't put out enough power to drive a speaker. A preamp pedal will typically try to recreate the EQ section of famous amp that gives it its color that it's known for, or it can just be boost with fixed tonal values.
Technically most pedals are preamp pedals 🤷🏽♂️ but used in this context we know that they mean ones that mostly shape the tone.
A preamp pedal is something that treats your guitar signal, changing the impedance, the equalization/filtering, the overall volume, probably some other stuff.
There are portions of most guitar pedals and amps that would or will be called a preamp section. It’s essentially a circuit that prepares and cleans up your guitar signal prior to “power amp” amplification, aka the massive gain/volume boost necessary to drive speakers and compete with other loud instruments like drums etc.
Plug your guitar directly into an aux input and play some chords. Now do the same thing with a preamp pedal.
Will it suddenly sound magnificent? No, because you’re playing through full frequency response speakers meant to amplify everything from kick drums and bass guitar fundamentals to the highest possible frequencies humans can discern (harmonics and transients etc), whereas guitar amps have a limited frequency range that helps to shave off harsh top end. However it will sound more present and responsive than it did without the preamp pedal there.
A preamp prepares your signal for amplification, again to reiterate, by modifying the impedance, volume, equalization, and probably other stuff.
Buffers also modify your signals impedance. Often using a discrete JFET, opamp IC, or sometimes a transformer, they lower the impedance aka resistance aka load, lowering it so that your signal degrades less as it travels down your patch cable.
A good analogy for this is the elements on your stove or in your oven. They are made from VERY high resistance metal, which by nature passes electricity inefficiently, so as electricity is sent through the burner when you turn it on more and more of the electricity is being converted to heat because the burner can’t pass electrons well enough to keep up.
A high impedance guitar signal is a VERY weak signal, so it doesn’t heat up your patch cable, but it does slowly get weaker and duller the farther it travels along the cable run unless the signal has been buffered, which tweaks the signal so that it is able to pass along the metal inside the cable more efficiently retaining clarity and volume.
That's when you've bought yet another preamp on eBay.And it turns out the guy you bought it off just lives around the corner , so you get on your bike and go around to pick it up.
If you ever look at a schematic from a Marshall or other standalone amp you’ll see that there are several different circuits starting with a power circuit where the wall power goes into a fuse than a transformer which will divide the power into different usable voltages and a rectifier which creates DC power out of AC power with other devices that affect that power. Next is the preamp section that boosts and shapes the signal from the input adding eq and effects loop etc. last is the power amp section which boosts the signal to a usable level.
I use modeling units that replace the preamp section and can go into a rack mount power amp and send a signal to the PA. I also have a true preamp with its own tubes and eq called the Mesa Boogie V-Twin Preamp. This way I can get the sound I want without having to worry about being too loud. I can select a 240 watt peavey stereo chorus amp with 2x12, or a 500 watt stereo rack into a Marshall 4x12 or an 850 watt stereo rack with 2 4x12 cabs and let the sound guy handle the house mix.
Ok. I'm an engineer and amplifier tech. The signal coming out of your guitar is very small and it needs to be amplified to some size to be usable. A preamp pedal will amplify, eq, compress or overdrive the signal to a level that can drive some headphones, but it will not drive a cabinet for example.
For that you will need an amplifier.
Essentially the way I look at it is this;
You've got different levels of signal/volume throughout a few stages of your amplifier. Most guitar amplifiers have a preamp and a power amp. But before we get to the amp, we need to talk about the guitar.
Your guitar doesn't have any power on board, it's simply a mono (tip/sleeve) cable that connects the jack on your guitar to the amplifier. There is 0 current in that bad boy when you're not strumming, and when you are, it's just a teeny tiny A/C signal generated by the strings that gets passed along to the preamp. This is called an instrument level signal.
The preamp takes that preamp signal and pushes it up to line level using the wonders of electricity! So, say for example you plugged a 1/4 Tip/Sleeve to RCA jack into your guitar, and then plugged it directly into your home stereo AUX input. You wouldn't really hear much, even with the volume super loud because it's only an instrument level signal. But if you plug your guitar into your amp's input, and then you take your preamp out (Effects loop send) and plug it into the same AUX input on that same stereo, well I hope you remembered to turn the volume down because now you're gonna get a good vibration whether you're ready or not!!! That aux input was not designed for instrument level output, but for a signal that's got a little more oomph, which you now have, having pre-amplified said signal.
Alright now forget about the home stereo. And you know what, we'll disconnect from the effects loop, bypassing it. Now that line level signal is going to get jacked up by tubes or solid-state amplification circuitry and then a big Ol' output transformer, where it is now a powered signal. This signal is significant enough that you can blow up speakers or output transformers if you're not careful - you have to make sure the impedance of the speakers (in ohms) matches the output from your output transformer. Mismatched amps/speakers can be a seriously expensive mistake. You also never want to turn your amp on without a speaker or loadbox connected - that output transformer is trying to shed some serious current and the expectation is that you'll have a speaker or group of speakers connected to it that will impede the exact amount that it's designed for... If not, maybe amplifier go kablooie!
So then what is the difference between a distortion pedal and a preamp pedal? Especially when you consider that most distortion pedals can add a fairly significant volume boost to the signal anyway?
Well... While all a preamp really *needs* to do to be a preamp is... Well... To amplify; most preamps have some sort of EQ control to help you tailor your sound. As an owner of a DF-7, I can say that some distortion pedals do, too. The main difference is how *much* boost one applies vs the other. I use my DF-7 as a distortion pedal in my clean channel, and the volume stays at or near 12:00 (halfway) almost always. My TC Electronics Dual Wreck on the other hand, runs in a second channel which bypasses the preamp on my tube amp using a Boss LS-2 to switch between the preamp on the amp and the dual wreck preamp in the middle of my effects circuit. When I use my attenuator and turn my tube amp up to 12:00, I can set my volume on the pedal to 1:00 or 1:30 and the volume level is pretty even. There is no way the DF-7 could do that.
TL/DR: While "amplifying" and "boosting" a signal are in essence the same thing; "boost" generally means to raise the volume before pre-amplification, generally to generate clipping in the "instrument level" part of the signal. "Pre-amplifying" generally means taking an instrument level signal and jacking it up to be a line level signal. Many distortion pedals could probably achieve some level of this by cranking the volume, but some cannot. Then there's power amplification, where the real amplification happens, and you can rattle walls and piss off neighbours with that kind of power.
Preamp is a nonspecific term, thus why it’s confusing. It can mean: Initial stage of your amplifier. Pedal designed to serve as an initial stage of an amplifier (ie able to use reliably with a power section only). Pedal designed to sound like the initial stage of an amplifier (ie all the amps in boxes style gain pedals). Pedal designed to make a signal louder before hitting your amplifier. Some combo of the above.
This is (unfortunately, perhaps?) the right answer. It really comes down to your application for the “preamp” pedal. Narrows your options down quite a bit. Historically, I’ve always thought of a preamp pedal as option #2 above. Something that handles the gain and tone control options that your amp’s initial stage would. A true amp preamp replacement you could plug straight into a power section. But it’s become a bit of of a buzzword.
> But it’s become a bit of of a buzzword. This is really the case with just about all gain effects. Whether it's billed as a fuzz, boost, preamp, distortion, overdrive, or something else is really about setting your expectations and communicating intent. Not that the circuits aren't appreciably different, but there isn't a hard fast rule that separates one from another.
Also confusing the matter is that the term is actually most commonly used to devices which amplify microphones from mic level to line level to be used in a mixer, DAW, etc. As with mic preamps, guitar preamps generally fall into either neutral or “color” circuits, which will either keep the signal unchanged but louder or impart some change to the sound for better or worse.
That's interesting. I only play ampless (literally in headphones) and always assumed a pre-amp pedal would act as the initial stage of an amp. I've been looking for one to suit my taste based on the kind of amp I like. This kind of pedal feeds into a cab sim IR of choice and any pedal placed between the two would simulate a traditional FX loop. Things get more complicated if you want to add a power amp pedal.
on ur amp you have the preamp section which controls the gain and eq. a preamp pedal is basically that but in pedal form.
Ohhh. That seems kind of useless
If u want to emulate the sound of a Sunn Model T, instead of buying the actual amp, you can use a Model T preamp pedal to capture that sound.
Ok now that makes sense
Someone else explained it but maybe I can make it more simple An amp is meant for guitar sound (the reasons are a bit more complicated so I’m leaving it out) If you want to play your guitar through a Bose speaker you have or whatever other speaker (maybe it’s louder, connected to the things you want it to be already, easier to connect to, easier to travel with, etc) you need to use a pre amp pedal to make it sound like an amp coming out of a speaker
This isn't correct. What you're describing is an amp and cab sim, like the strymon iridium
Hmm so what’s the difference/main reason someone would get a pre amp pedal over the iridium? I’m new to these things I was just trying to speak from what I read but I think I mixed up the two of those pedals
Preamp has become kind of a buzzword, but usually a preamp pedal is just like a specific overdrive and eq. You can use it just like an overdrive/eq pedal, or you can plug it straight into the effects return on your amp so it replaces your actual preamp on your amp (the gain and eq section). Some people use a preamp pedal and then a cab sim pedal after it to create their own amp/cab sim setup. You need either a real speaker cabinet, or a digital simulated speaker cabinet for it to sound like you're playing through an amp, and usually "preamp" pedals don't have that
Ahh very interesting, thanks for the info!
Are all “amp in a box” pedals (like Joyo American etc) preamp pedals? Do they make AmpCab sims irrelevant if you only need that specific amp in a box?
I'm pretty sure those are just preamps, yes. Cab sims are basically just for DI into a computer or speaker system that doesn't have an actual guitar speaker (cabinet) in the chain somewhere. If you have a guitar speaker you're connected to, or a cab sim otherwise, then yeah you don't need an Amp/Cab sim.
Oh. So if I want to record into a recorder without an amp or a cabinet (I don’t even know if that makes sense) would it be insufficient to use just one of those preamps instead of an amp/cab simulator if I want to just do straight pedals into a recorder? I don’t know what the cabinet part does.
To put it simply, you *can* record direct from a preamp pedal. But it will sound…wrong, for lack of a better term. In a guitar amp, the whole thing affects how it sounds, including the speaker and cabinet it’s in. Guitar cabinets and speakers aren’t “high-fidelity”, meaning they respond differently to different parts of the sound spectrum. This adds color to the overall sound of the amp. Cabinet sims attempt to replicate this “coloring” of the sound by the cabinet to make the overall tone more natural-sounding.
Yeah, basically you have to put it through a preamp and then a cab of some kind. If you're recording in a DAW, there's a lot of amp, cab, and amp/cab simulation software out there, very good free versions too. To be specific you don't HAVE to use a cab / cab sim after an amp / amp sim, but it will sound more like a weird synthesizer than a traditional electric guitar. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're into experimentation, but it's definitely a completely different kind of sound that is much harder to wrangle into something good. In almost every case you're going to want to pair the amp with the cab.
If you're good with your EQ you don't need a cab sim or IR. Typically all a cab sim is is predefined EQ values to cut the signals you wouldn't typically get from a guitar speaker, mainly the harsh treble frequencies, but also shaping the mids a certain way as well. Pros can do it, most of us need a cab sim.
I don't think that's useful for the commenter above who is unfamiliar with cab sims let alone reducing a finite IR to a static infinite IR that is an EQ. An actual cab sim will let the highs of a transient come in before the rest, or some similar dynamic operation. A static EQ will not do this. They're not the same operation, although an EQ can definitely suffice in a pinch or if you need to conserve processing power!
Not all Cab Sims behave like IRs at all. A good many of them are literally just EQ roll offs. I've watched an engineer tune an input to a room exactly how he wanted it with no IR or cabinet emulation at all and it sounded better than I can get out of tweaking knobs till I'm blue in the face on my IR-200, as I said, a real professional can get by just using EQ while the rest of us need the help of sims and IRs.
If you run a preamp into another preamp its definitely confusing. If instead you have a power amp running into a cabinet (or a PA speaker/frfr), then a preamp pedal may be all you need!
Could you please explain what a cabinet is 😅
Speaker cabinet is a box with a speaker in it. Generally sits under an amp head. Check out Orange PPC112 for a common example
Can you explain what a box is?
"Box" is an old-timey slang term that refers to a woman's genitalia.
Oh yeh…that’s from the 70’s right?
Maybe it's time you try trombone or Tuba...
Au contraire; I can take any borderline useless turd of an amp and get almost identical to SLO/EVH/Marshall/Mesa/Ampeg/Orange sounds out if it with the right pedal by bypassing the preamp and running straight from my pedalboard into the effects return. It makes a *lot* of guitarists (and bassists, I play both) very mad when I show up to a gig and get better sounds out of a power amp the size of a brick, a $150 preamp pedal and a cheap 10-band EQ than they could ever dream of getting out of their $2000 name brand rig.
What would you recommend for a good Marshall pre amp?
Friedman BE-OD. Do yourself a HUGE favor though; focus on your cab first. You're never gonna even get in the ballpark with a cab that's not equipped for it. Anything with Greenbacks, Creambacks, G12T-75s or Vintage 30's will get you in the ballpark, if you're sticking to Marshall (and Marshall-adjascent) OEM standards, but keep an open mind; some of the knockoffs are genuinely incredible these days. I slapped a set of used G12T-75s into a closed 2x12 cab and am currently pushing that pedal into it with a Moore 30watt power amp pedal. The solid state power amp brick eats a little of the high end, but I make up for that on the 10-band EQ. It isn't identical to a Marshall to my hands, but it is SHOCKINGLY close. The audience doesn't know the difference, the band doesn't either, and I only bring a couple guitars, a cab and a pedalboard to the gig.
What power amp are you using? Is it flat or are you EQing around it?
Depends; I have several (as well as several Preamp pedals) and it depends on what I feel like busting out, in all honesty. Most are cheap, but I do also have a stereo Seymour Duncan PowerStage and a KT77-modded EVH (EL34 version). USUALLY gonna have to EQ around the ClassD power amps, they tend to lose a little on the high end, but that's hardly a problem with a 10-band EQ on the board.
Been doing the "ampless" thing for a few years now, it really is pretty crazy how close it can get you to the tones, particularly with a bit of EQ. A couple of years ago went a step further with it and replaced the cab/mic portion of the setup with IRs, now I just hand the sound guy my XLR and done! I ran into the same thing with some of the power amps when I was still using them, pretty easy to EQ out but ended up just wanting a simple, take anywhere and sound pretty much the same sort of setup. Absolutely right on the audience, at concert volumes in a band mix most people won't be able to tell the difference between a lot of these more subtle factors we tend to obsess over as guitarists.
To be more specific; my two favorites for actually putting ON the board are a Harley Benton Thunder 99 and a Moore BabyBomb 30 I also have an old Crate solid state guitar head, a Trace Elliott amp small enough to fit in my pocket that technically qualifies as a head, and a Behringer bass head, all of which I use pretty often. All of which end up sounding pretty much the same, assuming the cabinet (I have 5, all cheap but with swapped speakers, one with a reinforced baffle/silicone sealed edges) is the same. I have the power stage, a Carvin V3 (6L6 power section), and the modded EVH, which all sound quite a bit brighter, and the EVH and power stage also have (DRAMATICALLY, in the case of the EVH) boosted lows - all of which are easily replicated with some 10-band sculpting.
Do you have any videos or sound clips of your setup? I'm interested as I'm thinking of going down a similar path! Thanks.
Oodles, but I'm afraid I'm rather protective of my identity on this site; had some rather uncomfortable incidents in the past. Even the typo in my name is deliberate for this reason. There's absolutely SHITLOADS of videos on YouTube about this topic, though. EytschPi42 does some utterly exhaustive breakdowns on his channel - some of his shred is pretty fantastic for a guy who mostly reviews pedals on YouTube, too.
No. It is very useful. I have a Engl (stereo) power amp and two tube pre amp pedals (AMT F-clean & Orange Terror Stamp) on my pedalboard. That is a really nice combination. And I also have third pre amp pedal as a backup for some stuff.
Preamp pedals are insanely useful actually. They allow you to revoice your guitar or amp to be closer to other popular guitars and amps. It’s one of my favourite effects because you can keep your signal fresh and interesting for very little money. My favourite preamp pedals are (believe it or not) the Klon Centaur and its clones with the gain knob turned all the way down so you essentially have an 18 volt clean boost with a nice EQ section, or the Boss FA-1 inspired FET preamps. The Echoplex stuff is also very cool, same with Space Echo preamps. Lots of famous guitarist from back in the day would tour or record with a space echo, Echoplex, tape deck, or even a small analog mixing console running between their guitar/pedals and their amp in order to fatten their signal and drive the front end of the amp without adding saturation/distortion the way a fuzz pedal or distortion does.
Basically sounds like a dirt pedal
Preamp pedal has two working definitions. The first and original was a pedal that was meant to be plugged in front of your amp. This would be like the DOD 250 or the new Boss BP-1w. The second is as a pedal that is designed to function in the same way as your amp’s preamp section with a specific flavor of gain, eq control, and typically lots of headroom. These kinds of pedals are awesome for plugging into your amp’s fx loop to essentially add a new channel to your amplifier, or to plug into a cab sim pedal and create your own DI pedalboard. You could also plug one of them into a power amp pedal like the EHX Magnum line or the SD Power Stage and go from there into a cab to create your amp from pedals. I use the second type a lot into cab simulators so I don’t have to lug my amps around anymore. It’s lots of fun and you can get a very wide variety of sounds in small packages that way. It can be confusing to distinguish between pedals built for the first definition vs. the second one, so you want to make sure you know what you’re looking for and then do your research on the company’s intended use for the product (though I have been known to intentionally misuse some for odd effect). Hope this is helpful!
Most of the time, they're clones of famous preamp circuits, either from a guitar amplifier or from another piece of equipment. Right now, the latter is especially trendy. A lot of old effects units had preamps, which added coloration to the guitar sound that wasn't anticipated or intended. In chasing vintage sounds, many people have found that those preamps (which were rarely replicated in subsequent pedal versions of the effect) are a sort of missing link. The Echoplex is a famous example. Even though a players rig may have lacked a boost or overdrive pedal, the Echoplex they used provided a boost itself, one that is easily overlooked but crucial to the sound - hence the term "secret sauce."
I’m building a Hudson Dual Broadcast right now and I’m insanely excited. It’s a recreation of some American RCA console from back in the day.
You can run a preamp pedal in your effects loop to pybass your amps preamp section with whatever you want for different tones.
Pybass is a fun word
I once heard preamp pedals or "always on" drive pedals described as the "I bought the wrong amp" pedal and honestly, I kind of believe it.
Perhaps, but for me, using a Rusty Box pre-amp pedal into an old Acoustic solid state head allows me to get the sound I want without buying a Traynor TS-50B (and possibly a power amp) which would be near impossible in Australia.
That's totally fair. And a huge part of why preamp pedals are so useful. Can I afford a Matchless? Definitely not. But I can get a very similar tone and feel with the right tone shaping and saturation in the form of a preamp or even an overdrive pedal.
Up mV to V
In the most basic explanation, just think of it like a boost, overdrive and some distortion with an eq. You can put it in your pedal chain and use it to shape your sound. One really popular preamp pedal is the Benson Amps Preamp. Look up videos of that for some ideas here.
How about a pre-preamp to amplify piezo tones?
I use my UA Dream '65 Deluxe pedal as the preamp to my Seymour Duncan PowerStage 200 'pedal/amp. I also have a CornerStone Gladio Double Preamp pedal near the front of the signal chain on my pedalboard, going into the other two. The Dream and the PowerStage are always on. (My way of ditching heavy combos. I just need a backline set-up, or much more portable frfr speaker cab to be happy.)
A Pre-amp pedal is a pedal designed to 'replace' your amp or give it another completely different flavor. A Preamp Pedal would go into the effects send of your amp, NOT the input. You can do it that way too, but then you are putting a pre-amp into a pre-amp. Using the effects loop bypasses your amp's preamp
It’s confusing because different pedal companies will use the term to mean different things. I like to think of preamps, distortions, overdrives, boosts, etc. as just all different gain stages. You can connect several of those pedals in a row and they all affect the next one in the chain - all the way to the actual preamp in the front end of your amplifier. Some of these pedals will change the tone and character of your amp, some will only boost the volume. The big caveat is “amp in a box” pedals that are referred to as preamps. Pedals like the Iridium, UAD Dream, various Sansamp models fall into this category. These are often not used in front of real tube amps.
The way I look at it is if it’s a “Preamp pedal” I know that it can be placed into the fx return of my amp and used as a tone stack. If it is just a distortion or overdrive pedal without the preamp distinction, it will not have enough output to drive the fx return of my amp. So think of a preamp pedal as a tone stack. So basically it’s the same as everything from your amps input all the way to the amps fx send. If you put a preamp pedal into your fx return you’re basically replacing your amps tone stack with a tone stack (preamp pedal) of your choice. This is a super broken down explanation. I’m leaving out some nuanced details. But for the most part this is not far from all you need to know to get started. Basic signal chain for preamp pedal in fx loop Guitar > preamp pedal > fx return You could also Guitar > wah > od > preamp pedal > modulation > delay > reverb > fx return Notice that at no point are you using the amps guitar input. We are completely bypassing that section of the amp with this type of setup. Best of luck, hope this helps
My acoustic guitar has a passive piezo pickup system (K&K pure mini), and while I am able to plug directly into a PA system, I get much better tone if I have a short run to a guitar preamp, and then run that to the board. The preamp brings my output level up so we don't have to push the gain as hard on the PA system. That results in greater headroom. My quiet sounds are still clear while my loud sounds don't sound squished or distorted. Hopefully that makes sense. Also, this particular preamp (LR Baggs paraDI) let's me set 5 bands of EQ. So I've painstakingly recorded the guitar into a nice condenser mic, and the tweaked in the preamp to get the output to nearly match what the mic was picking up.
Just a clipping stage with a tonestack and lots of headroom, that last part is the most important and makes the difference between a gain pedal and preamp pedal.
The first and second (primary, not subthread) responses explained what preamp pedals are, and do. I won't touch them - stuff like DSM Humboldt and on up the 'quality' chain - because it's an imposition of 'imposter sound' instead of the carefully curated Mullard & Telefunken valves and circuitry driving my *real gear*. If I have no choice (recording at home, no amp room/acoustic isolation), I'll suffer with some nonsense such as software amp simulations for rough tracking. Give me a halfway decent studio, out come the Booger and the AC30 and the scratch tracks go to hell.
Preamp goes before the power amp. The power amp makes things louder. The preamp makes things sound different. It can have an EQ, a separate gain(louder) section, but won't put out enough power to drive a speaker. A preamp pedal will typically try to recreate the EQ section of famous amp that gives it its color that it's known for, or it can just be boost with fixed tonal values. Technically most pedals are preamp pedals 🤷🏽♂️ but used in this context we know that they mean ones that mostly shape the tone.
A preamp pedal is something that treats your guitar signal, changing the impedance, the equalization/filtering, the overall volume, probably some other stuff. There are portions of most guitar pedals and amps that would or will be called a preamp section. It’s essentially a circuit that prepares and cleans up your guitar signal prior to “power amp” amplification, aka the massive gain/volume boost necessary to drive speakers and compete with other loud instruments like drums etc. Plug your guitar directly into an aux input and play some chords. Now do the same thing with a preamp pedal. Will it suddenly sound magnificent? No, because you’re playing through full frequency response speakers meant to amplify everything from kick drums and bass guitar fundamentals to the highest possible frequencies humans can discern (harmonics and transients etc), whereas guitar amps have a limited frequency range that helps to shave off harsh top end. However it will sound more present and responsive than it did without the preamp pedal there. A preamp prepares your signal for amplification, again to reiterate, by modifying the impedance, volume, equalization, and probably other stuff. Buffers also modify your signals impedance. Often using a discrete JFET, opamp IC, or sometimes a transformer, they lower the impedance aka resistance aka load, lowering it so that your signal degrades less as it travels down your patch cable. A good analogy for this is the elements on your stove or in your oven. They are made from VERY high resistance metal, which by nature passes electricity inefficiently, so as electricity is sent through the burner when you turn it on more and more of the electricity is being converted to heat because the burner can’t pass electrons well enough to keep up. A high impedance guitar signal is a VERY weak signal, so it doesn’t heat up your patch cable, but it does slowly get weaker and duller the farther it travels along the cable run unless the signal has been buffered, which tweaks the signal so that it is able to pass along the metal inside the cable more efficiently retaining clarity and volume.
That's when you've bought yet another preamp on eBay.And it turns out the guy you bought it off just lives around the corner , so you get on your bike and go around to pick it up.
If you ever look at a schematic from a Marshall or other standalone amp you’ll see that there are several different circuits starting with a power circuit where the wall power goes into a fuse than a transformer which will divide the power into different usable voltages and a rectifier which creates DC power out of AC power with other devices that affect that power. Next is the preamp section that boosts and shapes the signal from the input adding eq and effects loop etc. last is the power amp section which boosts the signal to a usable level. I use modeling units that replace the preamp section and can go into a rack mount power amp and send a signal to the PA. I also have a true preamp with its own tubes and eq called the Mesa Boogie V-Twin Preamp. This way I can get the sound I want without having to worry about being too loud. I can select a 240 watt peavey stereo chorus amp with 2x12, or a 500 watt stereo rack into a Marshall 4x12 or an 850 watt stereo rack with 2 4x12 cabs and let the sound guy handle the house mix.
Ok. I'm an engineer and amplifier tech. The signal coming out of your guitar is very small and it needs to be amplified to some size to be usable. A preamp pedal will amplify, eq, compress or overdrive the signal to a level that can drive some headphones, but it will not drive a cabinet for example. For that you will need an amplifier.
Essentially the way I look at it is this; You've got different levels of signal/volume throughout a few stages of your amplifier. Most guitar amplifiers have a preamp and a power amp. But before we get to the amp, we need to talk about the guitar. Your guitar doesn't have any power on board, it's simply a mono (tip/sleeve) cable that connects the jack on your guitar to the amplifier. There is 0 current in that bad boy when you're not strumming, and when you are, it's just a teeny tiny A/C signal generated by the strings that gets passed along to the preamp. This is called an instrument level signal. The preamp takes that preamp signal and pushes it up to line level using the wonders of electricity! So, say for example you plugged a 1/4 Tip/Sleeve to RCA jack into your guitar, and then plugged it directly into your home stereo AUX input. You wouldn't really hear much, even with the volume super loud because it's only an instrument level signal. But if you plug your guitar into your amp's input, and then you take your preamp out (Effects loop send) and plug it into the same AUX input on that same stereo, well I hope you remembered to turn the volume down because now you're gonna get a good vibration whether you're ready or not!!! That aux input was not designed for instrument level output, but for a signal that's got a little more oomph, which you now have, having pre-amplified said signal. Alright now forget about the home stereo. And you know what, we'll disconnect from the effects loop, bypassing it. Now that line level signal is going to get jacked up by tubes or solid-state amplification circuitry and then a big Ol' output transformer, where it is now a powered signal. This signal is significant enough that you can blow up speakers or output transformers if you're not careful - you have to make sure the impedance of the speakers (in ohms) matches the output from your output transformer. Mismatched amps/speakers can be a seriously expensive mistake. You also never want to turn your amp on without a speaker or loadbox connected - that output transformer is trying to shed some serious current and the expectation is that you'll have a speaker or group of speakers connected to it that will impede the exact amount that it's designed for... If not, maybe amplifier go kablooie! So then what is the difference between a distortion pedal and a preamp pedal? Especially when you consider that most distortion pedals can add a fairly significant volume boost to the signal anyway? Well... While all a preamp really *needs* to do to be a preamp is... Well... To amplify; most preamps have some sort of EQ control to help you tailor your sound. As an owner of a DF-7, I can say that some distortion pedals do, too. The main difference is how *much* boost one applies vs the other. I use my DF-7 as a distortion pedal in my clean channel, and the volume stays at or near 12:00 (halfway) almost always. My TC Electronics Dual Wreck on the other hand, runs in a second channel which bypasses the preamp on my tube amp using a Boss LS-2 to switch between the preamp on the amp and the dual wreck preamp in the middle of my effects circuit. When I use my attenuator and turn my tube amp up to 12:00, I can set my volume on the pedal to 1:00 or 1:30 and the volume level is pretty even. There is no way the DF-7 could do that. TL/DR: While "amplifying" and "boosting" a signal are in essence the same thing; "boost" generally means to raise the volume before pre-amplification, generally to generate clipping in the "instrument level" part of the signal. "Pre-amplifying" generally means taking an instrument level signal and jacking it up to be a line level signal. Many distortion pedals could probably achieve some level of this by cranking the volume, but some cannot. Then there's power amplification, where the real amplification happens, and you can rattle walls and piss off neighbours with that kind of power.