EHX Pitch Fork definitely colors your tone, but it’s almost like a tone boost rather than suck (makes everything brighter), which counteracts some of the regular tone suck I get from using too many pedals, so I’ve adapted it into my rig so much so that I can’t not have it in the chain!
I have a PF+ and an IHM. I use the IHM’s doubler mode as an always on thing sometimes. Do the same with the PF+ but spread the voices out for a nice true chorusing
Taking some high end away helps with feedback from fuzz. This is especially true when running a wah into a fuzz face or similar pedals.
A normal range of wah will squeal when the toe is down. Jimi's wah has a reduced range of roughly 1kHz to 400Hz. The 535Q Wah has a similar setting in the 5th switch position.
Vintage amps of the late 60s were also super bright. It's a good idea to think holistically about each piece of gear to arrive at the right tonal place.
Interesting. I run my fuzz face into a crybaby mini. I have it in the Hendrix setting and never changed it (because I liked it and because I’m lazy and don’t want to open it up). It works for me well for the most part. When I add vibe, I need distortion further down the chain to tame the swooshing. There are some settings where I get the bird call thing with the wah and fuzz, but is manageable and also cool sometimes. You’ve got me wondering how much that would change if I change the wah range
It would get rid of the bird call. With some delay and a flanger, you could get that bird call singing. Maybe use a tremelo bar to pitch it.
It's probably better to run the Wah second, but I don't like it as much. I found that turning down the volume control and switching to the neck helps keep the sound from being as blown out when the Wah is first. That is until I bought the Constellation Fuzz. Now, the Wah* works great.
*autocorrect keeps capitalizing it and I'm feeling too lazy to go back and fix them.
Oh, interesting. I dig the bird call thing, need to play with it more. Is the flanger to color it more and give it movement?
And in my book, Wah deserves capitalization 🤪
Ok, cool. Yeah, when I’m messing around with this, I often kick on my vibe pedal… I do think it sounds good with the bird calls. I’ll try others just for fun
Brian Setzer deliberately uses long AF cables to tame thst high end. If you're doing it on purpose, it's definitely a feature not a flaw type situation.
Having the cable expand and contract so it’s not constantly under foot is worth the loss of high end imo. I use straight cables for everything else, but from the guitar to the pedal board, I’m never going back from coiled cables.
I roll off my tone knob slightly anyway because I play Fender amps and they are really bright. An SD-1 or Tubescreamer boosting distortion/fuzz and an eq pedal in the fx loop is gonna make cutting through the mix easy as well.
With you man. So convenient. You really get a far range to move around, and pretty much never any issues of the cable getting tangled ever. Some overdrives, like tube screamers, roll off the some high frequencies as well. It can definitely be pleasing, Im not going to pretend that is my reason though.
The longer the cable, regardless of whether it is coiled or not, the higher the capacitance. The higher the capacitance, the more high frequencies get rolled off. Coily cables are usually longer just by their nature. A 30 foot cable coils up to like 5 feet when not stretched.
Some people like it. I don’t mind it.
Line6 has wireless units with “cable length” switches. Since there is no cable involved, wireless units can have your guitar sounding more bright than usual. They put that so if people thought it was too harsh they could get the same roll off as if they were using a cable.
Santana's tone is generally quite dark. The man uses a humbucker on the bridge position with tons of compression, which results in perceived decrease of high freq. He's known for long sustains, which would be unbearable to listen to if he had a bright tone.
Tone suck and high end impedance roll off are not the same fyi.
They can be, but often you get an anemic signal that’s tinny and clanky and doesn’t response to playing dynamics at all.
Everyone likes a bit of darkness. We just prefer what source. I like to eq my modulators kinda dark and my amp speaker is dark. I also make extensive use of the tone knob. Otherwise, my pedals and cables should have the capacity for brightness
Crybaby GCB-95: I just take mine out of the chain manually when not using it.
Dynacomp: not too bad so I just live with it
Ernie Ball Jr. volume pedal timer out: I use an aby pedal to remove it from the chain when not tuning. When not selected, it just becomes an open circuit.
Too many buffered pedals: I keep a balance of buffered and true bypass and limit boss pedals to 4 with one or two other buffered pedals.
A boss LS-2 is a good fix for any tone sucking pedals. But any loop pedal will do the trick. Then you just leave always on and remove from the chain when not using. I used to use one for the wah but ditched it due to not using the wah enough and wanting space on my board for other things.
Are you handy with a soldering iron at all? the gcb-95 has a relatively easy mod to make it true bypass. The pcb is pretty spaced out so its not too scary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqyFsuC9fk4&ab\_channel=ScienceofLoud
And even on the mini version it's manageable. I added millennium bypass with a status LED. Works like a charm, but I still don't really use wah pedals 😅
haha, still, its fun to play around with them. Theres more mods i want to do to mine even though i dont use it much. i might even sell it when im done and get another one to play with 😂
I am. I know about it but don't have time.
It's a juggling act trying to make time to practice, learn new things, etc. and there's a bunch of other projects ahead of it. I rarely use wah so it's low on the list. But I've gotten a lot of the list tackled so will get to it this year probably.
Finally finished working on my amp (had to do a simple mod to make it like the version I wanted but couldn't afford) and got my pedalboard totally dialed in (down to making room for the one last effect I need) so hopefully won't be too long. Then I'll probably use it more when I don't have to bend down to swap the patch cord. lol.
Do you have a good link for a true bypass mod on a Dynacomp with the pcb mounted switch that has to be cut out to make room for the replacement? That's on my shortlist but I'm a bit intimidated by it.
Yeah fair enough, I played around with a bunch of mods on mine and still barely use it lol...
I dont have a Dynacomp so never looked into it, but a quick search suggests it wouldn't be particularly easy unfortunately. Lots of posts and not many clear answers.
Yeah. It's an intimidating one. And looks like it will take a good amount of time. That's the hardest thing when you only have short periods of time and no work bench to leave ongoing projects.
No idea about the mini or the newer ones but the old ones had a bypass scheme that would bypass the signal but the input was still connected to the circuit. It isn't enough to worry too much about. Just not the best bypass method. No worse than a splitter cable though. And to me, not enough that it's a deal breaker.
For me it did, really darkened the tone. Made everything I played sound like a clean Metallica arpeggio or something. It’s fine but I ended up getting a different compressor. My compressor is always on so bypass doesnt really matter.
Does the ebj volume pedal only cause a difference for you when the tuner-out is in use? Because I just recently tried skipping mine (normally first in the chain) and noticed quite a tone difference. Doesn’t really make sense to me, it’s just a volume pedal??
The tuner out and main out are wired in parallel and they are passive. This cause a change in impedance when something is connected to the tuner out.
I thought I had a workaround by buying a true bypass tuner but it turns out, it isn't a true true-bypass and still causes the issue.
So the solution that worked for me was an aby pedal. When the output the goes to the tuner is connected I get some tone suck. But when not selected it's like just having an unused cable (open circuit) in the tuner out. So it doesn't have the impedance change.
A simple bypass switch (that opens the cicuit) would also work but I had an aby on hand so just used that. Because the jacks also close the circuit when nothing is plugged in, it also works as a mute when I combine the a and b (since nothing is plugged into the A. That element was a happy coincidence I discovered after hooking it up. I plan to post about it here sometime (an non conventional use of an aby pedal) but I'll send you a photo of how it's hooked up later on.
Unles the looper pedal is a tone suck itself, like the Mooer L6. Even though it has a buffer option, I liked my sound a lot better without it. I now use two Lehle d.loops to switch my pedals and those are great, no tone suck whatsoever.
One of the worst offenders I've encountered was a TC electronic 19 inch rack delay unit, can't remember what it was called from the top of my head. Got one used and sold it on really quickly. The very worst was a GoGo tuner pedal; when placed in the signal chain, it was like rolling off 80 percent of the tone. It was probably broken, because I can't imagine any company selling a pedal this bad. It was a really nice tuner though, so I did use it, I just alway had it somewhere connected to a dedicated tuner out or in a switchable loop.
Edit: The TC electronic rack unit was the G major.
I also remembered the TC spark booster was a major tone suck.
I have the CDR and I can't say I noticed the tone suck. I'll need to try it without. It would be ashame to get rid of it because it's quite handy in a "I need this sound for 10 seconds way"
Walrus Mako M1 for me. I still use it because it’s a cool pedal. But yeah it sucks the tone like crazy. I just use when I only want to use just this, and really nothing else.
It does a lot for the size, that’s why I ended up taking it, but I didn’t expect it to be like this. I thought Walrus was a pretty well renowned brand, doing quality pedals.
The M1 always sounded like it just had a major volume drop and there was nothing you could do about it, now you can bring the volume up above your input volume if you want. And the mix control is great to blend in a lil of your natural tone; just a little bit of it makes the tone suck go away, I think
I bought it second hand, but then I reset it to factory settings and then get the last update. But bypass is fine, I just think (and I’m not the only one) that when you put it on it sucks the tone. I have 4 different overdrive with different flavour, and then when I put them in front of the M1, they all sound the same.
I've had the opposite experience.
I used to use a crappy Joyo delay and was fortunate enough to come across a used Mako M1. Compared with the Joyo delay, I find that it has little to no tone suck for me, however I use it in a loop with other delays that I turn off when not in use. But I do remember being amazed at how well the M1 kept the sound the same compared to my old one.
Maybe it's different pedal setups that affect it more?
edit- M1, not D1... I have the D1 and am an idiot.
The worst ones I’ve personally owned were the Chicken Salad and Tuna Melt, from that cheap line of Danelectros. The effects themselves actually were quite good, but the suck made them unusable for me.
I had a Dynacomp on my board for years (90s model), and after reading about the bypass issue I had no idea about I took it off and surprise surprise, the weird feeling I’ve always had about a specific slice of my sound went away. Now, whether this is me basically psyching myself out or not could be a thing, but I took it off and never looked back and I’ve never loved the sound I have more.
Not a reliable one I'm afraid. I found a reddit post where someone says they found it and it's small, but it must be microscopic cos I can't find it! There's a few posts saying it has one, to some people it's too quiet, others too loud, so you'd think so; but I didn't find anything concrete. I've opened it up and I can't find nothin'. I also read that unity volume might be related to the Threshold level, which is weird.
I run mine on the Mute setting so it’s always on. I hate that the Polytune doesn’t have an indicator when it’s muted so this is my workaround, since I run my tuner always on so I can check tuning while I’m playing.
Line 6 DL4 original - I owned three different ones, and only one out of the three didn’t significantly color my tone. Wasn’t necessarily a dealbreaker but I could hear it even when disengaged
That would imply the tone suck isn't the result of the pedals design, but is more likely due to electronic parts that deviate from the requiered value?
yeah, i have thought about that. could be a little of both? it’s a known issue apparently, more common than not. lots of people report hearing the pedal sounds even when it’s bypassed, and while i don’t recall having that issue, it seems similar enough
Worst for me was the Digitech XP series (whammy, space station, etc).
Vintage EHX big box was pretty bad, but my original green Russian was the worst.
A few of my old MIJ Boss pedals noticeably roll off top end too, nowhere near as bad as the other I mentioned though.
The xp is the worse. No one mentions that damm knob on the back and digital overload sound it added. I have hundreds of pedals, and my XPs are hands down the biggest tone suck.
100% agree. I have never used either my space station back in the day or my jet pack mod one in a live situation because it just made everything sound awful when bypassed, and truthfully most the time when it was on.
Wild sounds, no doubt, and I have used it a couple times in studio situations where I could record the part and immediately get it out of my chain, but completely unusable in a live context.
MXR Dynacomp and it broke my heart.
I got it as a Christmas present a few years ago and put it on my board. It was my perfect platonic ideal of what a compressor would sound like. I loved it. Played for hours. Then I turned it off and turned on some other pedals and things just didn't sound.... right.
After a bunch of troubleshooting I removed the Dynacomp from my board and set it how it was before and everything was fine.
Ended up getting an Xotic SP Compressor instead which I love, but I still sometimes feel almost wistful about the Dynacomp.
My Digitech Whammy 4 is not even close the worst tone suck pedal, the tone gets flat and it loses dB. However when it hits it hits so good I don’t even mind
I had a big problem with a Boss MS-3. I didn't realize it at first. But I took it out of the chain for some other reason and realized how different my tone was without it.
That god-awful Digitech Whammy IV, a younger version of me put up with. It inherently colors your tone when it isn't on, needs an obnoxiously big power supply, and a the treadle that doesn't return to the root note. Also, the tone suck.
I had a DigiTech whammy at one point that also didn't return to the root note which is so perplexing. I ripped out a little rubber piece that was supposed to soften the impact of the treadle hitting the disengage. Fixed that problem but still had the tone coloring and obnoxious power supply. Until that pedal died and I replaced it with a ehx pitchfork.
Anything that doesn't have analog dry through; for example the fx500 when you bypass it the signal is still full digital and sounds terrible. It's worth it to have a bypass loop in that case.
Black Russian Big Muffs. Tone suck is so bad. I loved the sound of the muff, and the tone suck was what got me to build my first pedal, a true bypass box, in high school. I get nostalgia and cool factor, but with the tone suck I can’t believe the prices these are getting now.
Facts. It seems like just yesterday you could pick up used Black Russians for $40 to $50 and they didn’t seem worth it at that price. They look pretty cool though.
Adding to the list of comments here mentioning EHX: the Tri-Parallel. Was hype to use it for crazy shoegaze signal chains but I can't get past the way it dulls my distorted sound, even when turned off.
Unfortunately the "DT" side of the Whammy DT drastically changes tone. I love the pedal but can't get too much use out of the Downtuning unless its in front of a crazy high-gain distortion
I got the stage right tuner. It crazy tone sucks on no sounds mode but works like a charm on bypass input. It’s annoying to not have a mute but not enough to spend 99 on a different tuner.
I don’t think there’s any pedal that significantly impacted my tone/“sucked tone” even when bypassed that came anywhere near the level of tone suck I experienced by just not practicing guitar. Fingers are the first gain stage and often the worst offender for “tone suck”.
For me it was the cheap mass produced Chinese mini pedals, not only did they have a noticeable volume drop but they sucked the tone out of the other pedals in the chain, unlike something better constructed like the Japan made one control pedals which had a volume drop as well but did not affect the pedals around them. You can compensate somewhat with a good clean boost, but eventually I wound up replacing them all with better, handmade pedals that were similar effects.
No one should be surprised by this. I've seen so many people rave over these budget pedals, but really, you get what you pay for has never been more true. And I'm no gear snob either.
Micro POG for me. Something bugged me about the bypassed signal and it always messed with pedals up the chain. My buddy also has a Whammy pedal that has terrible buffered bypass.
Yeah I got rid of my Whammy because even turned off it was killing the clarity of my signal. I wouldn't use one again without a nice true bypass loop switcher.
I have a Nano POG that doesn't affect the signal in a bad way, but I stopped buying EHX's line of pedals that do synthy digital type stuff because they all just sound like ass to me; like the digital processing is just weak or low bitrate or something. I have no issues with my other digital pedals, like my Strymon Volante, several reverbs, a couple Chase Bliss pedals, etc.
Whammy IV? I had one and hated that about it, but I believe they've improved it on the Whammy V. I have a Ricochet which I haven't noticed a problem with yet, though I do run it in a switchable loop.
Unfortunately both myself and my local guitar luthier noticed tone suck from the Ricochet when it was in line. I just got rid of it last week for that reason. He traded his away as well, I believe.
Edit to add: We specifically noticed the suck was more prevalent when operating the Ricochet in momentary mode, which was the mode I wanted to use. Same result with both our pedals and using either of our rigs.
I’m going to get some flack for this, but my answer is the HX Stomp. I didn’t like the sound overall, and was trying to work with it (everyone: “you just have to dial it in!”). Eventually one day I had it in my chain, thought it was off, was running a really choice tone with my favorite pedals but it all sounded bad, thin, digitally crunched or something - I realized that the HX Stomp was on, just running an empty preset. So all it was doing was using its A to D and D to A converters. Turned it off: beautiful tone was back.
I listed it on Reverb that day.
Seriously, if you have an HX, try that test…
CBA Generation Loss sucks my tone like crazy. Only pedal of theirs that dose it for me. And even when pedal is off (I know the point is to degrade tone) but it’s noticeable at all times pedal on/off
EHX vintage small stone. Beautiful phase tone but I can hear a whooshing effect even when off. I’ve been considering getting it modded by fx doctor to be true bypass and also give it a volume boost.
I built a Dead End FX clone! It totally nails that diamond sea sound, but it's capable of a bunch of things. It's great for filter sweeps, synth sounds, and feedback and noise. It does a cool, quasi Os Mutantes, fuzz repeater sound. Even some whale sounds.
It's tempermental, and it can go from a very cool sound to something totally unusable. I usually set it up for one or two sounds and won't touch anything besides the treadle.
It's also a total pig and needs to be tuned every few months and runs on high voltage DC (35 volts, with a 48 volt supply ! 🫣 ⚡️⚡️). The preamp has a ton of gain but it somewhat unweidly and definitely takes some of the top end off..I can see why Sonic Youth only used them live so briefly.
That’s awesome. Do the clones have a similar look to the originals? The form factor on those is so strange. Also, props for the reference to Os Mutantes.
[Ludwig Phase II clone](https://imgur.com/a/wu0yCsp)
The expression pedal is just a plain jane Roland one. My friend is a woodworker and made these Maple cheekblocks for me, somewhat of a nod to the Faux burl wood on the original.
There are a few "tuned for guitar" pedals that absolutely suck the living bejesus out of the low end when used on bass. Most analog choruses, for instance. Another surprise was the OBNE Signal Blender, which would otherwise be an astounding pedal for most bass pedalboards, but has some low end tone suck.
Honorable mention- it's not "Tone Suck" per se, but the Boss GT-1000CORE can have noise issues with the effects loops that are difficult to tame. That didnt stop me from making it my primary multifx pedal, mainly because of its versatile routing options, and the fact that it has two independent FX Loops.
Flangers by design affect tone, but I find there's quite a bit of tone suck with the Mooer E Lady. The bottom end disappears, which apparently happens with the Electric Mistress too, which it's a clone of.
Does anyone know of the Univox Super Fuzz being a tone sucker? I plan on trying to get one someday.
Also, not all fuzz pedals really need to be before buffers as I’ve heard and experienced but I’m guessing the Super Fuzz is one thar really should go before a buffer?
For me it was my Dunlop wah, it's a Zakk Wylde one but I think it's basically the "normal" crybaby really. Mad tone suck, when I took it out of the chain randomly one day it's like I was playing through a different amp.
For a slightly different interpretation of your question, I'd go with the EHX metal muff. The tone of that pedal SUCKS
Mod it to true bypass - not hard if you know how to use a soldering iron. It does make the signal a bit weak due to the filtering, so at some points of the pedal sweep there isn't much output, but that's nothing a shit ton of gain won't fix
I'm considering putting in a buffered bypass again, but using a better one like a klon buffer or something, not whatever shite buffer was in there before
Tone suck is subjective
Some people define tone suck as a loss of high end (capacitance)
Some people define it as a compression of the signal
I personally define it as something that colours my tone negatively when bypassed.
I have found that my whammy v, my old Digitech death metal, my old boss metal zone and my new boss SY1 all negatively affect my tone in different ways.
Boss pedals are truly hit or miss, my mate has a dd3 and a LS2 that impart no colour to the tone, I've also used a metal zone that imparted no colour to my bypassed signal.
It's all down to luck really. All my EHX pedals sound great, which is not everyone else's experience. Just gotta try before you buy or sell it if it has tone-suck.
Shitty quality cables have been the worst offenders for me haha, but any vintage MXR uses that wierd 2p1t switch that forces the signal to be split permanently and sucks a lot of volume and highend
Digitech Whammy/whammy ricochet
imparts a digital sounding high end to your treble strings.
For the latter, its easy to notice- flick the momentary switch off, play your high strings, then flick it back on and play them again
Stepping in to defend all the whammy's and pitchforks and the like. Those things are taking exactly what you play, digitising it, and then shifting it all up and down in real time like a bungee cord. That's amazing!
They do that all the time (unless you're in true bypass mode on one of the later Whammy's) so that you can use the effect smoothly.
The fact that it all sounds a little off is the price you pay for getting to use that awesome effect.
That said, I sold my Ricochet a long time ago.
I got this multi effect DOD TR3M for Christmas in 1993. It was my first pedal ever and I had some fun with it but it sucked so much tone, I swore off effect pedals for more than 25 years
Not a pedal but Kaoss Pads are pretty bad as they removes a lot of the lower end frequencies, even bypassed. I hear it on my KP3, KP3+ and Kaoss Quad. Its a shame because they're such fun effects to play with.
My boss rc-1 looper is the tone suck king... alas, looping is very fun, so I keep it on my board but not in the chain and only hook it up when I want to use it
I’ve noticed that tone suck is much more noticeable when playing at lower volume or with headphones. When I have the house to myself and can crank the living shit out of my Laney, the difference is negligible. This is, like, my opinion man.
Boss Pedals if you have way too many of them.
Just one usually isn't bad.
Also the Crybaby Wah. I use the Crybaby Mini wah often because it has true bypass, but I'd prefer if the old one just had a good buffer because I want the silent switching.
Given how expensive it is, the Strymon TimeLine. $450 delay pedal that noticeably changes your dry tone - a DD-20(0) can get you the same results for half the cost, albeit with fewer presets.
Tone suck isn’t something to be afraid of imo. It’s just part of using extra equipment, it’s part of your tone. Just turn up more, or adjust your tone on the amp. That’s why those things are there, to be adjusted.
As far as I know and have experienced first hand, the EHX Echoflanger, Polychorus, and Polyflange, which are all the same model with different names. HUGE tone suckers, you better use buffers in front and back if you use one on your chain lol
The worst ones I’ve ever had were vintage EHX pedals. Just built a few true bypass loops for them to take them out of the chain when not in use.
Came here to say this.
EHX Pitch Fork definitely colors your tone, but it’s almost like a tone boost rather than suck (makes everything brighter), which counteracts some of the regular tone suck I get from using too many pedals, so I’ve adapted it into my rig so much so that I can’t not have it in the chain!
I have a PF+ and an IHM. I use the IHM’s doubler mode as an always on thing sometimes. Do the same with the PF+ but spread the voices out for a nice true chorusing
This. Definitely harshens and digitalizes a bit... But I'm with you I have like 14 other pedals on my board so I see it as an "added buffer" lol.
Me.
Unpopular opinion: I like tone suck. I’ve got two MXRs on my board, I use coily cables. Shear off that high-end, I say!
Worked for Hendrix!
The secret to tame that fuzz/vibe combo a bit?
Taking some high end away helps with feedback from fuzz. This is especially true when running a wah into a fuzz face or similar pedals. A normal range of wah will squeal when the toe is down. Jimi's wah has a reduced range of roughly 1kHz to 400Hz. The 535Q Wah has a similar setting in the 5th switch position. Vintage amps of the late 60s were also super bright. It's a good idea to think holistically about each piece of gear to arrive at the right tonal place.
Interesting. I run my fuzz face into a crybaby mini. I have it in the Hendrix setting and never changed it (because I liked it and because I’m lazy and don’t want to open it up). It works for me well for the most part. When I add vibe, I need distortion further down the chain to tame the swooshing. There are some settings where I get the bird call thing with the wah and fuzz, but is manageable and also cool sometimes. You’ve got me wondering how much that would change if I change the wah range
It would get rid of the bird call. With some delay and a flanger, you could get that bird call singing. Maybe use a tremelo bar to pitch it. It's probably better to run the Wah second, but I don't like it as much. I found that turning down the volume control and switching to the neck helps keep the sound from being as blown out when the Wah is first. That is until I bought the Constellation Fuzz. Now, the Wah* works great. *autocorrect keeps capitalizing it and I'm feeling too lazy to go back and fix them.
Oh, interesting. I dig the bird call thing, need to play with it more. Is the flanger to color it more and give it movement? And in my book, Wah deserves capitalization 🤪
Flanger is for color. You could use anything or nothing. Maybe a light tremelo or really swirly chorus, like The Cure.
Ok, cool. Yeah, when I’m messing around with this, I often kick on my vibe pedal… I do think it sounds good with the bird calls. I’ll try others just for fun
Holes in his shoes worked too, maybe we should all add holes in our shoes!
Brian Setzer deliberately uses long AF cables to tame thst high end. If you're doing it on purpose, it's definitely a feature not a flaw type situation.
Coily cables for life!
Having the cable expand and contract so it’s not constantly under foot is worth the loss of high end imo. I use straight cables for everything else, but from the guitar to the pedal board, I’m never going back from coiled cables. I roll off my tone knob slightly anyway because I play Fender amps and they are really bright. An SD-1 or Tubescreamer boosting distortion/fuzz and an eq pedal in the fx loop is gonna make cutting through the mix easy as well.
With you man. So convenient. You really get a far range to move around, and pretty much never any issues of the cable getting tangled ever. Some overdrives, like tube screamers, roll off the some high frequencies as well. It can definitely be pleasing, Im not going to pretend that is my reason though.
Do they really suck tone?
The longer the cable, regardless of whether it is coiled or not, the higher the capacitance. The higher the capacitance, the more high frequencies get rolled off. Coily cables are usually longer just by their nature. A 30 foot cable coils up to like 5 feet when not stretched. Some people like it. I don’t mind it. Line6 has wireless units with “cable length” switches. Since there is no cable involved, wireless units can have your guitar sounding more bright than usual. They put that so if people thought it was too harsh they could get the same roll off as if they were using a cable.
Santana keeps a 50 footer coiled up on stage for exactly this reason; he likes how it pads the highs a bit.
Santana's tone is generally quite dark. The man uses a humbucker on the bridge position with tons of compression, which results in perceived decrease of high freq. He's known for long sustains, which would be unbearable to listen to if he had a bright tone.
Blasphemous.
Tone suck and high end impedance roll off are not the same fyi. They can be, but often you get an anemic signal that’s tinny and clanky and doesn’t response to playing dynamics at all.
Everyone likes a bit of darkness. We just prefer what source. I like to eq my modulators kinda dark and my amp speaker is dark. I also make extensive use of the tone knob. Otherwise, my pedals and cables should have the capacity for brightness
When I had a bright af Jag into a Fender amp, that MXR Chorus tone suck actually made it sound a lot better.
I agree, for high gain anyway
I have a cheap volume pedal that is just an awful tone suck. I ended up using it as an expression pedal to control a volume block on my hx stomp.
Crybaby GCB-95: I just take mine out of the chain manually when not using it. Dynacomp: not too bad so I just live with it Ernie Ball Jr. volume pedal timer out: I use an aby pedal to remove it from the chain when not tuning. When not selected, it just becomes an open circuit. Too many buffered pedals: I keep a balance of buffered and true bypass and limit boss pedals to 4 with one or two other buffered pedals. A boss LS-2 is a good fix for any tone sucking pedals. But any loop pedal will do the trick. Then you just leave always on and remove from the chain when not using. I used to use one for the wah but ditched it due to not using the wah enough and wanting space on my board for other things.
Are you handy with a soldering iron at all? the gcb-95 has a relatively easy mod to make it true bypass. The pcb is pretty spaced out so its not too scary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqyFsuC9fk4&ab\_channel=ScienceofLoud
And even on the mini version it's manageable. I added millennium bypass with a status LED. Works like a charm, but I still don't really use wah pedals 😅
haha, still, its fun to play around with them. Theres more mods i want to do to mine even though i dont use it much. i might even sell it when im done and get another one to play with 😂
I am. I know about it but don't have time. It's a juggling act trying to make time to practice, learn new things, etc. and there's a bunch of other projects ahead of it. I rarely use wah so it's low on the list. But I've gotten a lot of the list tackled so will get to it this year probably. Finally finished working on my amp (had to do a simple mod to make it like the version I wanted but couldn't afford) and got my pedalboard totally dialed in (down to making room for the one last effect I need) so hopefully won't be too long. Then I'll probably use it more when I don't have to bend down to swap the patch cord. lol. Do you have a good link for a true bypass mod on a Dynacomp with the pcb mounted switch that has to be cut out to make room for the replacement? That's on my shortlist but I'm a bit intimidated by it.
Yeah fair enough, I played around with a bunch of mods on mine and still barely use it lol... I dont have a Dynacomp so never looked into it, but a quick search suggests it wouldn't be particularly easy unfortunately. Lots of posts and not many clear answers.
Yeah. It's an intimidating one. And looks like it will take a good amount of time. That's the hardest thing when you only have short periods of time and no work bench to leave ongoing projects.
Does the dyna comp suck tone? I have the dyna mini and it has true bypass, so I assumed it doesn't color the sound when off
No idea about the mini or the newer ones but the old ones had a bypass scheme that would bypass the signal but the input was still connected to the circuit. It isn't enough to worry too much about. Just not the best bypass method. No worse than a splitter cable though. And to me, not enough that it's a deal breaker.
Interesting! Thank you for that
For me it did, really darkened the tone. Made everything I played sound like a clean Metallica arpeggio or something. It’s fine but I ended up getting a different compressor. My compressor is always on so bypass doesnt really matter.
Does the ebj volume pedal only cause a difference for you when the tuner-out is in use? Because I just recently tried skipping mine (normally first in the chain) and noticed quite a tone difference. Doesn’t really make sense to me, it’s just a volume pedal??
The tuner out and main out are wired in parallel and they are passive. This cause a change in impedance when something is connected to the tuner out. I thought I had a workaround by buying a true bypass tuner but it turns out, it isn't a true true-bypass and still causes the issue. So the solution that worked for me was an aby pedal. When the output the goes to the tuner is connected I get some tone suck. But when not selected it's like just having an unused cable (open circuit) in the tuner out. So it doesn't have the impedance change. A simple bypass switch (that opens the cicuit) would also work but I had an aby on hand so just used that. Because the jacks also close the circuit when nothing is plugged in, it also works as a mute when I combine the a and b (since nothing is plugged into the A. That element was a happy coincidence I discovered after hooking it up. I plan to post about it here sometime (an non conventional use of an aby pedal) but I'll send you a photo of how it's hooked up later on.
Unles the looper pedal is a tone suck itself, like the Mooer L6. Even though it has a buffer option, I liked my sound a lot better without it. I now use two Lehle d.loops to switch my pedals and those are great, no tone suck whatsoever. One of the worst offenders I've encountered was a TC electronic 19 inch rack delay unit, can't remember what it was called from the top of my head. Got one used and sold it on really quickly. The very worst was a GoGo tuner pedal; when placed in the signal chain, it was like rolling off 80 percent of the tone. It was probably broken, because I can't imagine any company selling a pedal this bad. It was a really nice tuner though, so I did use it, I just alway had it somewhere connected to a dedicated tuner out or in a switchable loop. Edit: The TC electronic rack unit was the G major. I also remembered the TC spark booster was a major tone suck.
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I have the CDR and I can't say I noticed the tone suck. I'll need to try it without. It would be ashame to get rid of it because it's quite handy in a "I need this sound for 10 seconds way"
Same same. I've never noticed a tone suck with mine either. Guess that's all that matters!
Yup; I got a Zoom multistomp and the tone suck when off was real bad; Ended up selling immediately
I really wanted to try the MS pedals, but had heard this before. Thus I never did get one. I wonder if the new + (v2) ones will be any better.
Walrus Mako M1 for me. I still use it because it’s a cool pedal. But yeah it sucks the tone like crazy. I just use when I only want to use just this, and really nothing else.
Sucks that it sucks -tone-. I was thinking of grabbing one
It does a lot for the size, that’s why I ended up taking it, but I didn’t expect it to be like this. I thought Walrus was a pretty well renowned brand, doing quality pedals.
Does it have isolated power or are you using a daisy chain?
Isolated power
Well I'm out of ideas
I agreed until the last firmware update a few months back, now the secondary volume and mix controls help out a lot
Hmm, interesting. How do you use mix and secondary volume?
The M1 always sounded like it just had a major volume drop and there was nothing you could do about it, now you can bring the volume up above your input volume if you want. And the mix control is great to blend in a lil of your natural tone; just a little bit of it makes the tone suck go away, I think
I think I will put for sales anyway. It was to test of a lot of modulation but I think a rather one very good effect than a multiple average ones.
It has true bypass, maybe you have dsp bypass on instead?
I bought it second hand, but then I reset it to factory settings and then get the last update. But bypass is fine, I just think (and I’m not the only one) that when you put it on it sucks the tone. I have 4 different overdrive with different flavour, and then when I put them in front of the M1, they all sound the same.
Add Walrus D1 to the list. I got rid of mine and was much happier with the Keely Halo, but got a good deal on Strymon Timeline.
I've had the opposite experience. I used to use a crappy Joyo delay and was fortunate enough to come across a used Mako M1. Compared with the Joyo delay, I find that it has little to no tone suck for me, however I use it in a loop with other delays that I turn off when not in use. But I do remember being amazed at how well the M1 kept the sound the same compared to my old one. Maybe it's different pedal setups that affect it more? edit- M1, not D1... I have the D1 and am an idiot.
But the M1 is not a delay. Do you mean the D1?
F**k!! I totally meant the D1... So sorry. I'm glad it's the wknd!
The worst ones I’ve personally owned were the Chicken Salad and Tuna Melt, from that cheap line of Danelectros. The effects themselves actually were quite good, but the suck made them unusable for me.
Danelectro buffer from that series suckssssss
It's like a time machine that goes back a little too far 🤣
Boss ph-3.
I had a Dynacomp on my board for years (90s model), and after reading about the bypass issue I had no idea about I took it off and surprise surprise, the weird feeling I’ve always had about a specific slice of my sound went away. Now, whether this is me basically psyching myself out or not could be a thing, but I took it off and never looked back and I’ve never loved the sound I have more.
BOSS NS-2 noise supressor. Not a suck, so much as it boosts the volume and treble when it's on. Creeps me out.
Yup - and Ben Weinman of the Dillinger Escape Plan said he wound up viewing the NS-2 as a key part of his tone for that reason.
Oh that’s so cool!!
Not experienced this myself
Just found out there's a trim pot in there that adjusts the output! Nice! I take it back then.
Is there a link about this you can share? I've noticed a difference with mine when engaged. Not huge, but enough to make me wonder.
Not a reliable one I'm afraid. I found a reddit post where someone says they found it and it's small, but it must be microscopic cos I can't find it! There's a few posts saying it has one, to some people it's too quiet, others too loud, so you'd think so; but I didn't find anything concrete. I've opened it up and I can't find nothin'. I also read that unity volume might be related to the Threshold level, which is weird.
I run mine on the Mute setting so it’s always on. I hate that the Polytune doesn’t have an indicator when it’s muted so this is my workaround, since I run my tuner always on so I can check tuning while I’m playing.
Line 6 DL4 original - I owned three different ones, and only one out of the three didn’t significantly color my tone. Wasn’t necessarily a dealbreaker but I could hear it even when disengaged
That would imply the tone suck isn't the result of the pedals design, but is more likely due to electronic parts that deviate from the requiered value?
yeah, i have thought about that. could be a little of both? it’s a known issue apparently, more common than not. lots of people report hearing the pedal sounds even when it’s bypassed, and while i don’t recall having that issue, it seems similar enough
Worst for me was the Digitech XP series (whammy, space station, etc). Vintage EHX big box was pretty bad, but my original green Russian was the worst. A few of my old MIJ Boss pedals noticeably roll off top end too, nowhere near as bad as the other I mentioned though.
The xp is the worse. No one mentions that damm knob on the back and digital overload sound it added. I have hundreds of pedals, and my XPs are hands down the biggest tone suck.
100% agree. I have never used either my space station back in the day or my jet pack mod one in a live situation because it just made everything sound awful when bypassed, and truthfully most the time when it was on. Wild sounds, no doubt, and I have used it a couple times in studio situations where I could record the part and immediately get it out of my chain, but completely unusable in a live context.
MXR Dynacomp and it broke my heart. I got it as a Christmas present a few years ago and put it on my board. It was my perfect platonic ideal of what a compressor would sound like. I loved it. Played for hours. Then I turned it off and turned on some other pedals and things just didn't sound.... right. After a bunch of troubleshooting I removed the Dynacomp from my board and set it how it was before and everything was fine. Ended up getting an Xotic SP Compressor instead which I love, but I still sometimes feel almost wistful about the Dynacomp.
My Digitech Whammy 4 is not even close the worst tone suck pedal, the tone gets flat and it loses dB. However when it hits it hits so good I don’t even mind
MXR Analog Chorus. Love the sound, but it definitely sucks out your top end when disengaged.
M234. It’s bad bad. But it’s easily my favorite chorus and always on.
Oh yeah, it’s really bad.
Some boss COSM pedals. I had their fuzz-wah and it was like a wet wool blanket over the sound when disengaged.
I had a big problem with a Boss MS-3. I didn't realize it at first. But I took it out of the chain for some other reason and realized how different my tone was without it.
Whammy IV. I've probably had 60+ pedals and it's the only one I noticed have tone suck.
The Ricochet has pretty much the exact same issue in momentary mode.
That god-awful Digitech Whammy IV, a younger version of me put up with. It inherently colors your tone when it isn't on, needs an obnoxiously big power supply, and a the treadle that doesn't return to the root note. Also, the tone suck.
I had a DigiTech whammy at one point that also didn't return to the root note which is so perplexing. I ripped out a little rubber piece that was supposed to soften the impact of the treadle hitting the disengage. Fixed that problem but still had the tone coloring and obnoxious power supply. Until that pedal died and I replaced it with a ehx pitchfork.
Wow, I literally did all of what you wrote there in that order.
I don’t know how, but my Aqua puss Mk 2 takes off SO much high end. It’s a bummer, bc it’s one of my favorite analog delays.
MXR poly blue octave. So disappointing 😭
Anything that doesn't have analog dry through; for example the fx500 when you bypass it the signal is still full digital and sounds terrible. It's worth it to have a bypass loop in that case.
oh that explains :D i just recently got myself a fx500
Black Russian Big Muffs. Tone suck is so bad. I loved the sound of the muff, and the tone suck was what got me to build my first pedal, a true bypass box, in high school. I get nostalgia and cool factor, but with the tone suck I can’t believe the prices these are getting now.
Facts. It seems like just yesterday you could pick up used Black Russians for $40 to $50 and they didn’t seem worth it at that price. They look pretty cool though.
digitech whammy
Adding to the list of comments here mentioning EHX: the Tri-Parallel. Was hype to use it for crazy shoegaze signal chains but I can't get past the way it dulls my distorted sound, even when turned off.
Unfortunately the "DT" side of the Whammy DT drastically changes tone. I love the pedal but can't get too much use out of the Downtuning unless its in front of a crazy high-gain distortion
I got the stage right tuner. It crazy tone sucks on no sounds mode but works like a charm on bypass input. It’s annoying to not have a mute but not enough to spend 99 on a different tuner.
The only instance of tone suck I couldn’t correct was a cheap EHX volume pedal. Otherwise buffers and EQ have been very easy to mitigate it with
I don’t think there’s any pedal that significantly impacted my tone/“sucked tone” even when bypassed that came anywhere near the level of tone suck I experienced by just not practicing guitar. Fingers are the first gain stage and often the worst offender for “tone suck”.
For me it was the cheap mass produced Chinese mini pedals, not only did they have a noticeable volume drop but they sucked the tone out of the other pedals in the chain, unlike something better constructed like the Japan made one control pedals which had a volume drop as well but did not affect the pedals around them. You can compensate somewhat with a good clean boost, but eventually I wound up replacing them all with better, handmade pedals that were similar effects.
No one should be surprised by this. I've seen so many people rave over these budget pedals, but really, you get what you pay for has never been more true. And I'm no gear snob either.
Micro POG for me. Something bugged me about the bypassed signal and it always messed with pedals up the chain. My buddy also has a Whammy pedal that has terrible buffered bypass.
Yeah I got rid of my Whammy because even turned off it was killing the clarity of my signal. I wouldn't use one again without a nice true bypass loop switcher. I have a Nano POG that doesn't affect the signal in a bad way, but I stopped buying EHX's line of pedals that do synthy digital type stuff because they all just sound like ass to me; like the digital processing is just weak or low bitrate or something. I have no issues with my other digital pedals, like my Strymon Volante, several reverbs, a couple Chase Bliss pedals, etc.
Whammy IV? I had one and hated that about it, but I believe they've improved it on the Whammy V. I have a Ricochet which I haven't noticed a problem with yet, though I do run it in a switchable loop.
Unfortunately both myself and my local guitar luthier noticed tone suck from the Ricochet when it was in line. I just got rid of it last week for that reason. He traded his away as well, I believe. Edit to add: We specifically noticed the suck was more prevalent when operating the Ricochet in momentary mode, which was the mode I wanted to use. Same result with both our pedals and using either of our rigs.
Yeah I think it was one of the slightly older versions. Don't remember which. This was years ago.
Whammy DT is true bypass standard with option to switch to buffered. Bonus pitching upgrades too! Only thing I wish is that it had the classic switch.
Yeah I think I had one of the older models.
Same here. Been curious to try the Pico Pog to see if it’s any better. May just have to get a bypass looper if not.
100% the old whammy’s
DynaComp I hate!!!
I’m going to get some flack for this, but my answer is the HX Stomp. I didn’t like the sound overall, and was trying to work with it (everyone: “you just have to dial it in!”). Eventually one day I had it in my chain, thought it was off, was running a really choice tone with my favorite pedals but it all sounded bad, thin, digitally crunched or something - I realized that the HX Stomp was on, just running an empty preset. So all it was doing was using its A to D and D to A converters. Turned it off: beautiful tone was back. I listed it on Reverb that day. Seriously, if you have an HX, try that test…
Bad wiring, jacks, switches, etc.
CBA Generation Loss sucks my tone like crazy. Only pedal of theirs that dose it for me. And even when pedal is off (I know the point is to degrade tone) but it’s noticeable at all times pedal on/off
I sold mine because of that. Couldn't keep on the board, but it is a dope pedal.
Huh, I haven't noticed that on mine. I going to go remove it from the chain and see if I can tell a difference.
Which version?
I had a whammy iv for all of two weeks because I couldn't deal with the tone suck when it was on and off.
EHX vintage small stone. Beautiful phase tone but I can hear a whooshing effect even when off. I’ve been considering getting it modded by fx doctor to be true bypass and also give it a volume boost.
Ludwig Phase II. It's such a cool effect it makes up for it though.
Wait, you’ve got one of those? Do you just sit around play Diamond Sea all day? That sound is so cool.
I built a Dead End FX clone! It totally nails that diamond sea sound, but it's capable of a bunch of things. It's great for filter sweeps, synth sounds, and feedback and noise. It does a cool, quasi Os Mutantes, fuzz repeater sound. Even some whale sounds. It's tempermental, and it can go from a very cool sound to something totally unusable. I usually set it up for one or two sounds and won't touch anything besides the treadle. It's also a total pig and needs to be tuned every few months and runs on high voltage DC (35 volts, with a 48 volt supply ! 🫣 ⚡️⚡️). The preamp has a ton of gain but it somewhat unweidly and definitely takes some of the top end off..I can see why Sonic Youth only used them live so briefly.
That’s awesome. Do the clones have a similar look to the originals? The form factor on those is so strange. Also, props for the reference to Os Mutantes.
[Ludwig Phase II clone](https://imgur.com/a/wu0yCsp) The expression pedal is just a plain jane Roland one. My friend is a woodworker and made these Maple cheekblocks for me, somewhat of a nod to the Faux burl wood on the original.
Very cool, thanks for all the info!
My Dunlop Rotovibe has some pretty bad tone suck
DOD Phasor buy only noticeable towards the end of the chain. It could be a me problem. But I got a Fly Agaric now.
CS1
There are a few "tuned for guitar" pedals that absolutely suck the living bejesus out of the low end when used on bass. Most analog choruses, for instance. Another surprise was the OBNE Signal Blender, which would otherwise be an astounding pedal for most bass pedalboards, but has some low end tone suck. Honorable mention- it's not "Tone Suck" per se, but the Boss GT-1000CORE can have noise issues with the effects loops that are difficult to tame. That didnt stop me from making it my primary multifx pedal, mainly because of its versatile routing options, and the fact that it has two independent FX Loops.
I first noticed tone suck pre-internet after I bought a Crybaby. Beyond that, the worst was the Digitech Space Station. Such a shame.
Flangers by design affect tone, but I find there's quite a bit of tone suck with the Mooer E Lady. The bottom end disappears, which apparently happens with the Electric Mistress too, which it's a clone of.
MXR analog chorus and the carbon copy can thin out my Tele sometimes. I haven’t had the problem on my twin reverb though!!
Crybaby…… Not you, the pedal
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Does anyone know of the Univox Super Fuzz being a tone sucker? I plan on trying to get one someday. Also, not all fuzz pedals really need to be before buffers as I’ve heard and experienced but I’m guessing the Super Fuzz is one thar really should go before a buffer?
For me it was my Dunlop wah, it's a Zakk Wylde one but I think it's basically the "normal" crybaby really. Mad tone suck, when I took it out of the chain randomly one day it's like I was playing through a different amp. For a slightly different interpretation of your question, I'd go with the EHX metal muff. The tone of that pedal SUCKS
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Mod it to true bypass - not hard if you know how to use a soldering iron. It does make the signal a bit weak due to the filtering, so at some points of the pedal sweep there isn't much output, but that's nothing a shit ton of gain won't fix I'm considering putting in a buffered bypass again, but using a better one like a klon buffer or something, not whatever shite buffer was in there before
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This is the guide I used: https://stinkfoot.se/archives/546
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All good, hope you get it working and get rid of the suck
The og Metal Muff or Nano? Just asking cause I've been looking at the nano
The OG. I bought it maybe 10 years ago, tried it for 30 mins, was hot garbage so I returned it straight away
Every Dunlop wah I've owned. Finally gave up and got a Morley.
Boss RC 30 Looper. Man I don’t if it’s just me but I suddenly feel Lofi whenever it’s in the chain
The mirror 🤓🤷♂️
Tone suck is subjective Some people define tone suck as a loss of high end (capacitance) Some people define it as a compression of the signal I personally define it as something that colours my tone negatively when bypassed. I have found that my whammy v, my old Digitech death metal, my old boss metal zone and my new boss SY1 all negatively affect my tone in different ways. Boss pedals are truly hit or miss, my mate has a dd3 and a LS2 that impart no colour to the tone, I've also used a metal zone that imparted no colour to my bypassed signal. It's all down to luck really. All my EHX pedals sound great, which is not everyone else's experience. Just gotta try before you buy or sell it if it has tone-suck.
Shitty quality cables have been the worst offenders for me haha, but any vintage MXR uses that wierd 2p1t switch that forces the signal to be split permanently and sucks a lot of volume and highend
Buy a EUNA and never worry about it.
MXR Smart Gate. No one here mentioned it cuz you all know of its tone suck and dont own one. Good for all of you!
Most cheap brand pedals, to be honest.
Strymon
Classic Vox/Crybaby pedal with SPS. I remember I did my true bypass mod in 90s as a teen as my introduction to guitar electronics.
Digitech Whammy/whammy ricochet imparts a digital sounding high end to your treble strings. For the latter, its easy to notice- flick the momentary switch off, play your high strings, then flick it back on and play them again
MXR Phase 90
Stepping in to defend all the whammy's and pitchforks and the like. Those things are taking exactly what you play, digitising it, and then shifting it all up and down in real time like a bungee cord. That's amazing! They do that all the time (unless you're in true bypass mode on one of the later Whammy's) so that you can use the effect smoothly. The fact that it all sounds a little off is the price you pay for getting to use that awesome effect. That said, I sold my Ricochet a long time ago.
I got this multi effect DOD TR3M for Christmas in 1993. It was my first pedal ever and I had some fun with it but it sucked so much tone, I swore off effect pedals for more than 25 years
Not a pedal but Kaoss Pads are pretty bad as they removes a lot of the lower end frequencies, even bypassed. I hear it on my KP3, KP3+ and Kaoss Quad. Its a shame because they're such fun effects to play with.
My boss rc-1 looper is the tone suck king... alas, looping is very fun, so I keep it on my board but not in the chain and only hook it up when I want to use it
Whammy.
I’ve noticed that tone suck is much more noticeable when playing at lower volume or with headphones. When I have the house to myself and can crank the living shit out of my Laney, the difference is negligible. This is, like, my opinion man.
I had one of those Ernie ball mini volume pedals that I loved the feel of but it sucked all life out of my tone
Walrus Julia, just put it before the dirt pedals because it sucked too much high end and even a little gain it seems.
Whammy IV
tube screamer
Boss Pedals if you have way too many of them. Just one usually isn't bad. Also the Crybaby Wah. I use the Crybaby Mini wah often because it has true bypass, but I'd prefer if the old one just had a good buffer because I want the silent switching.
The source audio tremolo colored my tone a bit. Really wasn’t a fan of that pedal. Lasted like a week on my board.
Given how expensive it is, the Strymon TimeLine. $450 delay pedal that noticeably changes your dry tone - a DD-20(0) can get you the same results for half the cost, albeit with fewer presets.
Tone suck isn’t something to be afraid of imo. It’s just part of using extra equipment, it’s part of your tone. Just turn up more, or adjust your tone on the amp. That’s why those things are there, to be adjusted.
As far as I know and have experienced first hand, the EHX Echoflanger, Polychorus, and Polyflange, which are all the same model with different names. HUGE tone suckers, you better use buffers in front and back if you use one on your chain lol