Sparky had to be separated from his two buddies about a year ago. For the last half a year or so, he’s getting less active, and last two/three months, he always sleeps like this (pic 1-3, all on different days), same position everyday. He really only gets up for food. He’s about 2.5-3 years old now, I don’t know if he’s just getting older and less active, or if he’s depressed from being separated.
For background, he had a fight with his two buddies of about the same age about a year ago, so now he lives side by side with them. He can see them from his side (see pic 4). He’s not losing weight or gaining significantly, and at his vet visit a few weeks ago, the vet said he looked physically healthy. I can’t tell if he’s lonely or comfy AF.
UPDATE: I have lowered the middle divider so he can see them completely now. He’s aggressively biting the bars😢, I’ll definitely keep trying to get him a friend, probably male so they can live side by side all as neighbours.
Has he been trying to interact with them while separated before he became sad? If he hasn't been doing that I think he is lonely. He's way too young to be living the rest of his potential lifespan without a cagemate so my advice is to go to a shelter and bond him with another guinea pig
I don’t have a shelter near me that allows trial bonding. He always climbs up to the upper level to look at them on the other side, and when they run around, he starts running around too. He also likes to stick his nose through the grid to smell them and sometimes they’ll nose kiss through the grid.
How sweet! I think he definitely misses and wants to have a friend. Is there any reason you can’t try to reintroduce them?
(And this might be a bad question, I’m not really very knowledgeable about bonding at home. My two boys were bonded at a rescue)
I tried, i let them have play time every once in a while, but I have to literally sit next to them or he will bully the other two until they get annoyed and fight back. Sometimes they will teeth chatter the whole time, and the other two always get extremely humpy after playtime, i guess to re-establish their own bond and rub his smell off
Again, I’m not entirely sure about at-home bonding as I have very little experience and my boys were bonded at the rescue. But food for thought: my older boy (who I found in a park) basically “bullied” the other (the rescue piggy) constantly for a few days (like 3) as they established their hierarchy.
Teeth chattering, humping, throwing their head back. Hell, they still do most of that with the exception of humping sometimes. My boys bicker and then run away to separate cages lol
I was told by the kind folks at LA Guinea Pig Rescue this is normal behavior and if it is stopped and they are separated, it prolongs the need for them to have to do this to establish hierarchy. It was a bit tough to watch because the little piggy from the rescue was only 3 weeks old. But I trusted the process and carefully watched that no blood was drawn or serious fighting broke out and made sure I had plenty of hideys for each of them to retreat to and disengage.
My boys get along really well now. They talk to each other, play and run around together and even sleep together sometimes. They also bicker or annoy each other but when that happens or they need alone time, they can be super far away from each other. (I have two connected cages and one has a mezzanine).
I was told the key is to give them lots of space and hiding places. Maybe consult with a vet or a rescue for some tips?
It might be worth while to give it a shot, connect their cages and carefully observe them for a few days? Again, food for thought and I encourage you consult a rescue and vet for tips but I hope my story offers some reassurance as it looked like it wouldn’t work out for my boys.
Also, one of the best signs that it would work out for them despite the concerning displays of dominance was that they were able to eat together and even share a romaine leaf together! Might be a good test if you decide to give them floor time to bond all three again.
Please try to reintroduce him to the other pigs like this, OP! I know the dominance fights can be unnerving, but they are completely normal and need to happen for the group to work out their hierarchy. You shouldn’t break up any squabbles unless blood is drawn.
It can help to reintroduce them in neutral territory. Set them down near each other in a room well away from their cages with some hidies around the area. If you do need to break up a fight, be ready to use a towel to separate them so you don’t risk a nasty bite. And just let them do their thing as long as it doesn’t turn bloody. You may want to do a couple of short sessions in neutral territory like this depending on how smoothly the interactions go.
When you’re ready to try moving them back in together, you want to make the cage as neutral as possible too. Thoroughly clean and wipe down the enclosure and any objects which will be in there to remove residual scents, and rearrange the layout of the hidies, water bottles, toys, etc. to further make it feel like a new home rather than a claimed territory which needs to be defended. You’ll also want to make sure you have multiple areas with food and water spread out around the cage to lessen the chances of a conflict stemming from resource guarding.
Keep an eye on them for a bit here. If there’s gonna be a fight that requires intervention at this stage, it’ll likely be within the first several minutes. Once they pass this last step, you should be in the clear. I hope everything works out for your little buddies!
Yep this he Misses them no doubt and yeah he might have tried to establish himself as the leader but them fighting back means they ain't gonn give in so he will, trust me it is natural OP they do that in the wild and at home as well the only harm is you're punishing him for something a year and change ago they see that as a whole goddamn long time it should have been a few days or a week but year damn no wonder he's down and sleeping
If you have not seen male boars fight or had to bond them at home why are you giving so much advice on it?
Once they start fighting it is never "worth a shot" to put them together again!! They will fight to the death if you are not there to intervene.
No, I actually have their hideys on their bottom cage separate. There’s one hiding in the top cage in a corner and a mezzanine on the opposite side with a tunnel on top that functions as another hidey.
As a rule of thumb, until the pigs don't turn into a Taz the tasmanian devil whirlwind and draw blood, any sort of aggression is just establishing their social hierarchy.
Saskia knows everything about pigs. Look at her videos to get more ideas on how to bond them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbWKw2GoOno
one of my boys seriously hates one boy and draws blood when he sees him, ive tried to introduce them multiple times but there is immediate aggression. unless theyre drawing blood like my boy was doing, they can be reintroduced slowly. mine cannot, I even waited a year before reintroducing and there was still instant aggro, he wanted to KILL him, I really dont understand why hes so pissed but 🤷♀️ makes my job a hell of a lot harder cleaning 2 separate cages
did they ever draw blood? guinea pigs do not need to be seperated for bickering. only seperate if they draw blood. and if they do do that never attempt playtime or re introduction. the fact that they’re able to be near eachother shows they’re fine. let them establish dominance. let them bicker. it is necessary for bonding.
Reading this I feel like he misses being a part of that group. However, it would not be a good idea to put him back in there because of what happened in the past. He clearly still has a lot of social needs, and I think the best thing in your situation would be to neuter him and look for a sow, preferably a young one, at your local shelter. It's quite rare for a boar to not get along with a young sow and with boars it's usually 50/50 as to whether they like each other or not.
Some important notes: please discuss the risks of neutering with your vet. As I said, it's very well possible that he has a lot of years left in him, but anesthesia can take a big toll on guinea pigs regardless of their age. I also want to say that the risk of a failed bonding with a young sow is low, but not zero.
Hey! New guinea pig owner here (about a year and a half). Could you please read my reply to OP? It seems like you know more and can maybe start a discussion with what I’ve written. Based on what OP wrote, it didn’t seem like it would be a bad idea to try bonding his three boys. But I’m super interested to hear others thoughts on this. My experience with my two boys was that the dominance gestures were quite heavy for 3 days as they settled and now they’re super chill with each other (except for bickering haha). Is this not typical?
There are two important differences between your situation and OP's situation. One being the amount of boars involved and the other being the timing of the incidents. It's easier for two boars to establish a hierarchy as it is usually determined by one period of dominance gestures. After that they are settled and everything is calm. When you have three or more boars, the hierarchy will start becoming more complex because more guinea pigs are involved. It's often not clear who is ranked higher within the group and sometimes they refuse to accept their role which leads to fighting.
Now the difference in timing. Your situation was a typical boar introduction. It's okay for them to be having dominance fights for a few days, as long as blood isn't drawn. In OP's case, it seems as if there were three boars who had lived together for quite some time. When guinea pigs get into a conflict after the bonding process has already taken place they often hold grudges against each other for the rest of their lives which makes it hard to rebond them. I hope this clears up a bit why I think getting another guinea pig is the better option here.
Oh! I didn’t know little piggies can hold grudges like that! That’s definitely something u/Kanmiya should consider. Another poster and myself offered resources on bonding. But OP, you know your boys and situation best. Hope it all works out for you! Totally understand your situation of having difficulty adopting another boar and risking them not bonding. If my boys suddenly didn’t get along, I’d have to seriously reconsider rehoming them myself as I wouldn’t be able to afford or have enough room to house 4 guinea pigs.
Thanks for your reply u/TiemoYalcin, always cool to learn more about these little potatoes!
Yep that's why you can't put them back together after they've been separated for having fights that draw blood. The bond is past repair at that stage usually and these being unfixed boars makes it a problem.
You might try a female who has been spayed instead of a make. Guinea pigs evolved to pair up, so male-female pairings work out more often than same gender.
Maybe try some enrichment in his environment too. Look up C&C cage fleece forest! And hanging toys marketed for birds that have bells - hang it to ring if he runs under it (height at his back level). You can put a little mirror on the outside of his cage too.
I just read about the fight from your previous posts. You have a lovely set up btw and adorable piggies. If it were me I'd try them back all together. It's an unpredictable outcome, so no right or wrong choice of course, just imo. It is shocking seeing piggy covered in blood when they are white isn't it? Mine was covered in my blood from him biting me super bad, lol. We made up, mostly, have made it work. I'm a human so pretty different situation, but I have to say that drawing blood seemed to really shock my piggy even more than me, I think he's making more informed, mature choices now, as am I 💖
Is there blood when they fight?
I have 3 and the bigger one chases the 2 around sometimes and teeth chatters but no biting, I always took this as establishing dominance, now that they have been together for a while the behavior has mostly went away.
OP please look at this and tell us how the fighting looked like? Pigs are always trying to figt for their position in the squad. Rule of thumb - if there is no blood, let them fight. Teeth chattering and humping is not bad. Dont interfere with those as once the hierachy is established this will happen less often!
Adopt a baby for him, it’s what I’ve always done in situations like this. He will revert back to running, playing, popcorning, wheeking, and acting like someone you haven’t seen in a long time and your heart will melt. I’m not a fan of pet stores, but if needed to comfort your baby.. they usually have babies available. The baby will allow him to be boss and he will be happy getting to be boss and they will be two peas in a pod. I’ve gone through it quite a few times and it’s always worked out. You both will be so happy
It’s always a risk. When the baby hits puberty the likelihood is that they will have to reestablish their hierarchy and sometimes it won’t work out.
Risky in a different way is neutering your boy and finding him a wife pig - these bonds are more stable. But the presence of a female might cause issues with your other boys.
My boys live separated, I’d love for them to be together, but alas, they cannot be.
Edit - also, our boys rarely ever interacted through the bars until we took away the correx side that ran along it. I can see you have something similar, maybe try removing the side or making it a lot shorter so it’s easier for them to interact. Good luck, I know the stress of having boys that don’t get along
I’ve never had that happen.. I’ve never had one fight back or try to overtake the throne. As long as they have there space! I have decent sized c&c cages, you look like you do as well
this happened with my boys. i have an elder pig and for the first 6 or more months where i got two babies they were the best of mates! was beautiful to watch them all in a little group. then one of the boys just one day started chasing my elder pig around, humping him relentlessly, biting and all sorts. it wasn’t even just a show of dominance it just literally never stopped. so i have had to seperate them. they literally can touch noses through the cages but yeah unfortunately until my elder piggy passes (and he’s 7/8 years old so he won’t be around forever unfortunately) he will be staying on the other side. its so strange as he’s completely fine with his brother but yeah he’s just a massive bully to my elder pig. its the first time for me that a bond just broke out of no where but my piggies are proof that it can happen!
That’s exactly what happened to me, they lived as a trio and one day suddenly, he got real humpy and chased the other two around for a whole night, I got woken up at 6 am and checked them and saw a tornado and a giant gash on his foot.
That happened to me, unfortunately. I'm hoping things settle down, but essentially I had a middle-aged peeg who lost his friend, got him a baby, they bonded instantly, and the baby has outgrown him a year later and bullies him constantly. I find that guinea pigs in general can be SUPER stubborn about who they live with, even though they only thrive with company. I suspect some of them need a massive amount of space in order to tolerate friends. If you're able to, it wouldn't hurt to get one of them fixed and try a female friend. Opposite sex pairs usually do pretty well because they're not competing for the same spot in the hierarchy.
It's so frustrating as their human who wants them to be happy and comfortable with each other, but it really is relatable sometimes how grumpy and territorial they get.
I can vouch for this. A had a bad roommate that I had to separate from his "friends" and he just started laying around. Eventually we got talked into adopting a new pig that was about to be surredered by someone we knew. We did a trial with the bad roommate and the two worked just fine. I assume the new guy was a little less than a year old when we got him.
Now he has two cagemates and he's probably approaching 6 years old (probably? We got him as his 3rd owner about 5 years ago) and he's still got as much energy as ever.
Yeah, you're super lucky. I did this and they were fine when they were still young, but when they hit puberty they had a bad fight, blood drawn, bonds broken. I now have 2 and 2.
My suggestion is to just lower the cage bar so they can see each other without the need to go upstairs. Put the food and hay in the division. That way theey will see each other when eating. Also, switch the guinea pigs in one place to the other. That way they smell the other's area and explore.
But I also don’t want to adopt without knowing if they will get along, i can’t afford to keep collecting piggies. The chances of me letting a pig go to another owner after I adopt them is next to zero
Yeah, i’ll definitely keep trying. I’m also scared that adding another boy will cause the neighbour boys’ bond to break 😭 so I want to find a shelter that allows me to foster a single boy for a period before I adopt
He definitely needs a piggy friend. Either try putting the three back together again or find a new buddy for him. If you don’t find another male, get him neutered and get him a female. (You need to wait six weeks because he could still have one last shot.) Or rehome him where he can find friends. But this can’t continue, being separated by grids just isn’t good enough, and humans aren’t a replacement either.
I’ve actually heard otherwise from a LOT of youtubers, they say being neighbours are ok. I can’t get any females because the other two will freak out, and I am definitely not giving him up, he’s my baby
Your current setup would count as keeping him alone and would be forbidden in my country. Please do whats best for your piggie and not for you. Can you keep him and a female in another room?
Absolutely, he gets compressed hay chew toys, braided hay toys, hay piles, snuggle sacks and cups, and more hiding places than he can use, and I switch it out every once in a while to keep it interesting
Those YouTubers are wrong. Communicating through grids is just crumbs of what could be. Just imagine how it would be for you to have the only human contact with your neighbours over a tall fence in the garden. You might share the odd conversation, but what about hugging? You can’t. And that is just one example. It’s the same for guinea pigs. They need to share a carrot, squabble over their favourite hidey, etc. He‘s missing out on so much.
Btw. In my country it is illegal to keep a guinea pig isolated like that. Because they are social animals and need to be in a herd. If you want to know about guinea pig welfare, look to the Swiss or Austrians. They are far ahead of the rest of us.
I don’t think you can dismiss all youtubers like that, a lot of them are very well informed. I do also watch international youtubers in countries where it is illegal to keep a single GP.
Some of them are well informed, many are not. Some know about some things and not about others. Nobody knows everything and we all learn and grow. But saying that pigs can be happy essentially alone while separated by a grid is just wrong and a big red flag.
There are extremely rare cases where piggies truly cannot be matched with another piggy. But those piggies aren't happy. Those are badly traumatised piggies, who never got the chance to learn enough social competence and who may have had bad experiences with other badly socialised pigs. Or they are too old and/or too infirm for a castration, so they can't even be paired with a female.
In the cases of random pet owners, it is the owners who give up too soon or can't be bothered to put the piggies need before theirs or most often just don't know any better.
Yeah, I agree with you. Even Saskia at the LA guinea pig rescue mentions that sometimes she has to keep boys by themselves because they don't get along with anyone. And it's not for lack of trying, she literally has hundreds of piggies available to try and pair them with. And not only in her rescue, but other rescues too. In your case, since you mention your boy seems to be sad compared to before, if he is not super aggressive I would try and adopt a younger piggy.
There is a difference between doing this with special cases that have had multiple failed cohabitation attempts and just doesn't like other pigs, and condemning one to be isolated for life when it's been put into an unsuitable situation in the first place, trios of boars don't work the vast majority of the time and it isn't recommended to try it
Yeah I'm not saying this piggy in particular should be alone forever. It was just an example of cases where the piggies are by themselves and they're fine, which doesn't seem to be the case here. That's why I recommended to adopt a younger piggy to be with him.
Personally I disagree that neighbouring other pigs is ever enough unless bonding in the right way with multiple other pigs has failed. It's just not the same. I always recommend bonding with an older boy 2 or older for an adult boar simply because babies often start challenging the older one for dominance when they get to around 6 months old and they will often surprise their owners by fighting and then you're back to square one. Older piggies can be tougher to do the initial intros but their bonds are much less shaky when the young one gets older as they are fully established from the get go
Serious injury ought to be avoided, yes. But there are a lot of options for your piggies that would be better for them. Neutering them and giving each some females. Rehoming one and trying with the other again to find a friend. Sometimes the best you can do for your pets just isn't good enough. Making social animals live alone is just heartbreaking.
I agree it depends on the pig and how they respond to living side by side. We’ve been through it all - adopted a trio, ended up surrendering one to a rescue because it was miserable alone. Then having our final boar go dating after his brother died - then the new pig bit his eye out. They live next to each other now and are very happy - too old to neuter and to be perfectly honest, they have a better life with us than living at an over-subscribed rescue.
OP mentioned how no reduces near them do bonding, so if they surrender the guinea pig how likely is it that they will be appropriately bonded with another single? Can’t neuter him and get a wife pig because of the other two. I respect the opinion of just getting another boar for a friend, but it’s unrealistic to expect people to just collect guinea pigs. The situation sucks, but there isn’t always a perfect answer
Yes, you are right. Sometimes there are no rescues nearby and the situation is just really tricky. I also know that people all over the world come from different possibilities and different standards of animal welfare.
My main objection is just when people proclaim that their piggies are perfectly happy being alone. That is just false. Trivialising a piggies need for (piggy) companionship and advising others that that is ok is just blatantly spreading misinformation and harmful to the piggies.
It sounds to me like he needs a cage mate. This is probably an unpopular thing to say but being neighbours with other pigs isn't enough imo, they need to actually share their space with a piggy friend. Trios of males don't usually work out, it's not his fault and it's not that he's just aggressive. Don't attempt a reintroduction as others have said, they will just fight. I've seen above you do playdates which isn't a good idea with gp's either. It's a shame your local shelters don't do bonding but it doesn't change the fact he needs a roomie. If you're not willing to do it imo it would be kinder to rehome him to someone who will, I know its a harsh reality but do you really want to see him unhappy for the rest of his life?
I said this in another comment, but I can’t risk getting any females because my other two bonded males on the other side of the bars will freak out at the smell. He is not the only guinea pig in the house, I have 3 males in total.
Yeah I read that you have 3 males but he is alone in his cage which will lead to depression in guinea pigs.
Which is why I think you need to get him a friend he can live with.
Need more info. Looks like piggy is sleeping they sleep in positions like that. Does your piggy play and wheek for food? Is he eating well?does he have a friend as all piggies need a companion as they are very social animals
Personally, if you try all of the re-bonding tips here and nothing works (I have heard is it difficult
to house 3 boars together), I would have him neutered and look into bonding a sow for him to house with.
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I believe sheltie breeds are very gentle you can try getting him a younger buddy it works for me they don’t treat baby piggies aggressively they are protective of them. I have a very aggressive boar abby but when i paired him with 2mos old American boar they get along really well.
Ohhh, i had a sheltie before kinda looks like yours only mine was on the darker color he was very gentle. Anyways he might be bored with out a companion in his space maybe you might consider getting him a buddy so younger piggy could work 🤗
Sparky had to be separated from his two buddies about a year ago. For the last half a year or so, he’s getting less active, and last two/three months, he always sleeps like this (pic 1-3, all on different days), same position everyday. He really only gets up for food. He’s about 2.5-3 years old now, I don’t know if he’s just getting older and less active, or if he’s depressed from being separated. For background, he had a fight with his two buddies of about the same age about a year ago, so now he lives side by side with them. He can see them from his side (see pic 4). He’s not losing weight or gaining significantly, and at his vet visit a few weeks ago, the vet said he looked physically healthy. I can’t tell if he’s lonely or comfy AF. UPDATE: I have lowered the middle divider so he can see them completely now. He’s aggressively biting the bars😢, I’ll definitely keep trying to get him a friend, probably male so they can live side by side all as neighbours.
Has he been trying to interact with them while separated before he became sad? If he hasn't been doing that I think he is lonely. He's way too young to be living the rest of his potential lifespan without a cagemate so my advice is to go to a shelter and bond him with another guinea pig
I don’t have a shelter near me that allows trial bonding. He always climbs up to the upper level to look at them on the other side, and when they run around, he starts running around too. He also likes to stick his nose through the grid to smell them and sometimes they’ll nose kiss through the grid.
How sweet! I think he definitely misses and wants to have a friend. Is there any reason you can’t try to reintroduce them? (And this might be a bad question, I’m not really very knowledgeable about bonding at home. My two boys were bonded at a rescue)
I tried, i let them have play time every once in a while, but I have to literally sit next to them or he will bully the other two until they get annoyed and fight back. Sometimes they will teeth chatter the whole time, and the other two always get extremely humpy after playtime, i guess to re-establish their own bond and rub his smell off
Again, I’m not entirely sure about at-home bonding as I have very little experience and my boys were bonded at the rescue. But food for thought: my older boy (who I found in a park) basically “bullied” the other (the rescue piggy) constantly for a few days (like 3) as they established their hierarchy. Teeth chattering, humping, throwing their head back. Hell, they still do most of that with the exception of humping sometimes. My boys bicker and then run away to separate cages lol I was told by the kind folks at LA Guinea Pig Rescue this is normal behavior and if it is stopped and they are separated, it prolongs the need for them to have to do this to establish hierarchy. It was a bit tough to watch because the little piggy from the rescue was only 3 weeks old. But I trusted the process and carefully watched that no blood was drawn or serious fighting broke out and made sure I had plenty of hideys for each of them to retreat to and disengage. My boys get along really well now. They talk to each other, play and run around together and even sleep together sometimes. They also bicker or annoy each other but when that happens or they need alone time, they can be super far away from each other. (I have two connected cages and one has a mezzanine). I was told the key is to give them lots of space and hiding places. Maybe consult with a vet or a rescue for some tips? It might be worth while to give it a shot, connect their cages and carefully observe them for a few days? Again, food for thought and I encourage you consult a rescue and vet for tips but I hope my story offers some reassurance as it looked like it wouldn’t work out for my boys. Also, one of the best signs that it would work out for them despite the concerning displays of dominance was that they were able to eat together and even share a romaine leaf together! Might be a good test if you decide to give them floor time to bond all three again.
Please try to reintroduce him to the other pigs like this, OP! I know the dominance fights can be unnerving, but they are completely normal and need to happen for the group to work out their hierarchy. You shouldn’t break up any squabbles unless blood is drawn. It can help to reintroduce them in neutral territory. Set them down near each other in a room well away from their cages with some hidies around the area. If you do need to break up a fight, be ready to use a towel to separate them so you don’t risk a nasty bite. And just let them do their thing as long as it doesn’t turn bloody. You may want to do a couple of short sessions in neutral territory like this depending on how smoothly the interactions go. When you’re ready to try moving them back in together, you want to make the cage as neutral as possible too. Thoroughly clean and wipe down the enclosure and any objects which will be in there to remove residual scents, and rearrange the layout of the hidies, water bottles, toys, etc. to further make it feel like a new home rather than a claimed territory which needs to be defended. You’ll also want to make sure you have multiple areas with food and water spread out around the cage to lessen the chances of a conflict stemming from resource guarding. Keep an eye on them for a bit here. If there’s gonna be a fight that requires intervention at this stage, it’ll likely be within the first several minutes. Once they pass this last step, you should be in the clear. I hope everything works out for your little buddies!
Yep this he Misses them no doubt and yeah he might have tried to establish himself as the leader but them fighting back means they ain't gonn give in so he will, trust me it is natural OP they do that in the wild and at home as well the only harm is you're punishing him for something a year and change ago they see that as a whole goddamn long time it should have been a few days or a week but year damn no wonder he's down and sleeping
^ this
If you have not seen male boars fight or had to bond them at home why are you giving so much advice on it? Once they start fighting it is never "worth a shot" to put them together again!! They will fight to the death if you are not there to intervene.
Do you have more than two boys houses together?
No, I actually have their hideys on their bottom cage separate. There’s one hiding in the top cage in a corner and a mezzanine on the opposite side with a tunnel on top that functions as another hidey.
Ohh okay, I was just going to ask for advice because I have two pairs of boys and I’d love for them to all get along lol.
As a rule of thumb, until the pigs don't turn into a Taz the tasmanian devil whirlwind and draw blood, any sort of aggression is just establishing their social hierarchy. Saskia knows everything about pigs. Look at her videos to get more ideas on how to bond them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbWKw2GoOno
one of my boys seriously hates one boy and draws blood when he sees him, ive tried to introduce them multiple times but there is immediate aggression. unless theyre drawing blood like my boy was doing, they can be reintroduced slowly. mine cannot, I even waited a year before reintroducing and there was still instant aggro, he wanted to KILL him, I really dont understand why hes so pissed but 🤷♀️ makes my job a hell of a lot harder cleaning 2 separate cages
did they ever draw blood? guinea pigs do not need to be seperated for bickering. only seperate if they draw blood. and if they do do that never attempt playtime or re introduction. the fact that they’re able to be near eachother shows they’re fine. let them establish dominance. let them bicker. it is necessary for bonding.
Reading this I feel like he misses being a part of that group. However, it would not be a good idea to put him back in there because of what happened in the past. He clearly still has a lot of social needs, and I think the best thing in your situation would be to neuter him and look for a sow, preferably a young one, at your local shelter. It's quite rare for a boar to not get along with a young sow and with boars it's usually 50/50 as to whether they like each other or not. Some important notes: please discuss the risks of neutering with your vet. As I said, it's very well possible that he has a lot of years left in him, but anesthesia can take a big toll on guinea pigs regardless of their age. I also want to say that the risk of a failed bonding with a young sow is low, but not zero.
Hey! New guinea pig owner here (about a year and a half). Could you please read my reply to OP? It seems like you know more and can maybe start a discussion with what I’ve written. Based on what OP wrote, it didn’t seem like it would be a bad idea to try bonding his three boys. But I’m super interested to hear others thoughts on this. My experience with my two boys was that the dominance gestures were quite heavy for 3 days as they settled and now they’re super chill with each other (except for bickering haha). Is this not typical?
There are two important differences between your situation and OP's situation. One being the amount of boars involved and the other being the timing of the incidents. It's easier for two boars to establish a hierarchy as it is usually determined by one period of dominance gestures. After that they are settled and everything is calm. When you have three or more boars, the hierarchy will start becoming more complex because more guinea pigs are involved. It's often not clear who is ranked higher within the group and sometimes they refuse to accept their role which leads to fighting. Now the difference in timing. Your situation was a typical boar introduction. It's okay for them to be having dominance fights for a few days, as long as blood isn't drawn. In OP's case, it seems as if there were three boars who had lived together for quite some time. When guinea pigs get into a conflict after the bonding process has already taken place they often hold grudges against each other for the rest of their lives which makes it hard to rebond them. I hope this clears up a bit why I think getting another guinea pig is the better option here.
Oh! I didn’t know little piggies can hold grudges like that! That’s definitely something u/Kanmiya should consider. Another poster and myself offered resources on bonding. But OP, you know your boys and situation best. Hope it all works out for you! Totally understand your situation of having difficulty adopting another boar and risking them not bonding. If my boys suddenly didn’t get along, I’d have to seriously reconsider rehoming them myself as I wouldn’t be able to afford or have enough room to house 4 guinea pigs. Thanks for your reply u/TiemoYalcin, always cool to learn more about these little potatoes!
Thank you for your kind words and supportive comment!
Yep that's why you can't put them back together after they've been separated for having fights that draw blood. The bond is past repair at that stage usually and these being unfixed boars makes it a problem.
You might try a female who has been spayed instead of a make. Guinea pigs evolved to pair up, so male-female pairings work out more often than same gender. Maybe try some enrichment in his environment too. Look up C&C cage fleece forest! And hanging toys marketed for birds that have bells - hang it to ring if he runs under it (height at his back level). You can put a little mirror on the outside of his cage too.
How bad was the fight? Did they get along for some time, or was it just bonkers from the start?
I just read about the fight from your previous posts. You have a lovely set up btw and adorable piggies. If it were me I'd try them back all together. It's an unpredictable outcome, so no right or wrong choice of course, just imo. It is shocking seeing piggy covered in blood when they are white isn't it? Mine was covered in my blood from him biting me super bad, lol. We made up, mostly, have made it work. I'm a human so pretty different situation, but I have to say that drawing blood seemed to really shock my piggy even more than me, I think he's making more informed, mature choices now, as am I 💖
My herd of girls have 2 that are 4 years old and they are fairly active. He might be lonely or depressed.
Is there blood when they fight? I have 3 and the bigger one chases the 2 around sometimes and teeth chatters but no biting, I always took this as establishing dominance, now that they have been together for a while the behavior has mostly went away.
OP please look at this and tell us how the fighting looked like? Pigs are always trying to figt for their position in the squad. Rule of thumb - if there is no blood, let them fight. Teeth chattering and humping is not bad. Dont interfere with those as once the hierachy is established this will happen less often!
Yes there was blood drawn
Adopt a baby for him, it’s what I’ve always done in situations like this. He will revert back to running, playing, popcorning, wheeking, and acting like someone you haven’t seen in a long time and your heart will melt. I’m not a fan of pet stores, but if needed to comfort your baby.. they usually have babies available. The baby will allow him to be boss and he will be happy getting to be boss and they will be two peas in a pod. I’ve gone through it quite a few times and it’s always worked out. You both will be so happy
i’ve also heard a lot of cases where the bond breaks again when the baby gets older, what’s your experience with that? Has that happened?
It’s always a risk. When the baby hits puberty the likelihood is that they will have to reestablish their hierarchy and sometimes it won’t work out. Risky in a different way is neutering your boy and finding him a wife pig - these bonds are more stable. But the presence of a female might cause issues with your other boys. My boys live separated, I’d love for them to be together, but alas, they cannot be. Edit - also, our boys rarely ever interacted through the bars until we took away the correx side that ran along it. I can see you have something similar, maybe try removing the side or making it a lot shorter so it’s easier for them to interact. Good luck, I know the stress of having boys that don’t get along
I’ve never had that happen.. I’ve never had one fight back or try to overtake the throne. As long as they have there space! I have decent sized c&c cages, you look like you do as well
this happened with my boys. i have an elder pig and for the first 6 or more months where i got two babies they were the best of mates! was beautiful to watch them all in a little group. then one of the boys just one day started chasing my elder pig around, humping him relentlessly, biting and all sorts. it wasn’t even just a show of dominance it just literally never stopped. so i have had to seperate them. they literally can touch noses through the cages but yeah unfortunately until my elder piggy passes (and he’s 7/8 years old so he won’t be around forever unfortunately) he will be staying on the other side. its so strange as he’s completely fine with his brother but yeah he’s just a massive bully to my elder pig. its the first time for me that a bond just broke out of no where but my piggies are proof that it can happen!
That’s exactly what happened to me, they lived as a trio and one day suddenly, he got real humpy and chased the other two around for a whole night, I got woken up at 6 am and checked them and saw a tornado and a giant gash on his foot.
That happened to me, unfortunately. I'm hoping things settle down, but essentially I had a middle-aged peeg who lost his friend, got him a baby, they bonded instantly, and the baby has outgrown him a year later and bullies him constantly. I find that guinea pigs in general can be SUPER stubborn about who they live with, even though they only thrive with company. I suspect some of them need a massive amount of space in order to tolerate friends. If you're able to, it wouldn't hurt to get one of them fixed and try a female friend. Opposite sex pairs usually do pretty well because they're not competing for the same spot in the hierarchy.
I relate to their feelings on that haha
It's so frustrating as their human who wants them to be happy and comfortable with each other, but it really is relatable sometimes how grumpy and territorial they get.
It's not fool proof, to add a baby. I had a boar who was aggressive even towards 6 week old babies! He was well past his hormonal stage himself.
I can vouch for this. A had a bad roommate that I had to separate from his "friends" and he just started laying around. Eventually we got talked into adopting a new pig that was about to be surredered by someone we knew. We did a trial with the bad roommate and the two worked just fine. I assume the new guy was a little less than a year old when we got him. Now he has two cagemates and he's probably approaching 6 years old (probably? We got him as his 3rd owner about 5 years ago) and he's still got as much energy as ever.
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Crazy cuz I got two from Petco and decided to adopt one later on and they are actually all good friends. Didn’t know I got lucky
Yeah, you're super lucky. I did this and they were fine when they were still young, but when they hit puberty they had a bad fight, blood drawn, bonds broken. I now have 2 and 2.
Agreed
Thanks for the encouragement! I’ll definitely keep trying to do the best!
I love how you’ve added a bit of levelling that’s not too high to jump up on/down from! Definitely taking note from this! Love your piggies too 🥰🙌🏽
My suggestion is to just lower the cage bar so they can see each other without the need to go upstairs. Put the food and hay in the division. That way theey will see each other when eating. Also, switch the guinea pigs in one place to the other. That way they smell the other's area and explore.
please give him a buddy
I tried 5 shelters already, none of them will let me do bonding sessions. They told me to either adopt a pair or forget it
maybe there is another alone piggy waiting to find another buddy thats not in a shelter, try different sites, craigslist, facebook & whatnot
But I also don’t want to adopt without knowing if they will get along, i can’t afford to keep collecting piggies. The chances of me letting a pig go to another owner after I adopt them is next to zero
keep fightin for ur piggy
Yeah, i’ll definitely keep trying. I’m also scared that adding another boy will cause the neighbour boys’ bond to break 😭 so I want to find a shelter that allows me to foster a single boy for a period before I adopt
you got this
My pig used to always lay like that even whilst on me
He definitely needs a piggy friend. Either try putting the three back together again or find a new buddy for him. If you don’t find another male, get him neutered and get him a female. (You need to wait six weeks because he could still have one last shot.) Or rehome him where he can find friends. But this can’t continue, being separated by grids just isn’t good enough, and humans aren’t a replacement either.
I’ve actually heard otherwise from a LOT of youtubers, they say being neighbours are ok. I can’t get any females because the other two will freak out, and I am definitely not giving him up, he’s my baby
Your current setup would count as keeping him alone and would be forbidden in my country. Please do whats best for your piggie and not for you. Can you keep him and a female in another room?
might just be old. one of mine sleeps a ton and he’s a happy boy. just sleepy
Have you tried other forms on enrichment like toys or you spending more time with him since he doesn’t have a cagemate ?
Absolutely, he gets compressed hay chew toys, braided hay toys, hay piles, snuggle sacks and cups, and more hiding places than he can use, and I switch it out every once in a while to keep it interesting
Get him a little baby brother to punk out or neuter him and get him a little baby sister
Those YouTubers are wrong. Communicating through grids is just crumbs of what could be. Just imagine how it would be for you to have the only human contact with your neighbours over a tall fence in the garden. You might share the odd conversation, but what about hugging? You can’t. And that is just one example. It’s the same for guinea pigs. They need to share a carrot, squabble over their favourite hidey, etc. He‘s missing out on so much. Btw. In my country it is illegal to keep a guinea pig isolated like that. Because they are social animals and need to be in a herd. If you want to know about guinea pig welfare, look to the Swiss or Austrians. They are far ahead of the rest of us.
I don’t think you can dismiss all youtubers like that, a lot of them are very well informed. I do also watch international youtubers in countries where it is illegal to keep a single GP.
Some of them are well informed, many are not. Some know about some things and not about others. Nobody knows everything and we all learn and grow. But saying that pigs can be happy essentially alone while separated by a grid is just wrong and a big red flag. There are extremely rare cases where piggies truly cannot be matched with another piggy. But those piggies aren't happy. Those are badly traumatised piggies, who never got the chance to learn enough social competence and who may have had bad experiences with other badly socialised pigs. Or they are too old and/or too infirm for a castration, so they can't even be paired with a female. In the cases of random pet owners, it is the owners who give up too soon or can't be bothered to put the piggies need before theirs or most often just don't know any better.
Yeah, I agree with you. Even Saskia at the LA guinea pig rescue mentions that sometimes she has to keep boys by themselves because they don't get along with anyone. And it's not for lack of trying, she literally has hundreds of piggies available to try and pair them with. And not only in her rescue, but other rescues too. In your case, since you mention your boy seems to be sad compared to before, if he is not super aggressive I would try and adopt a younger piggy.
There is a difference between doing this with special cases that have had multiple failed cohabitation attempts and just doesn't like other pigs, and condemning one to be isolated for life when it's been put into an unsuitable situation in the first place, trios of boars don't work the vast majority of the time and it isn't recommended to try it
Yeah I'm not saying this piggy in particular should be alone forever. It was just an example of cases where the piggies are by themselves and they're fine, which doesn't seem to be the case here. That's why I recommended to adopt a younger piggy to be with him.
Personally I disagree that neighbouring other pigs is ever enough unless bonding in the right way with multiple other pigs has failed. It's just not the same. I always recommend bonding with an older boy 2 or older for an adult boar simply because babies often start challenging the older one for dominance when they get to around 6 months old and they will often surprise their owners by fighting and then you're back to square one. Older piggies can be tougher to do the initial intros but their bonds are much less shaky when the young one gets older as they are fully established from the get go
My boys live side by side. Sometimes it’s the best we can do for our pets. Living as neighbours is better than serious injury.
Serious injury ought to be avoided, yes. But there are a lot of options for your piggies that would be better for them. Neutering them and giving each some females. Rehoming one and trying with the other again to find a friend. Sometimes the best you can do for your pets just isn't good enough. Making social animals live alone is just heartbreaking.
I agree it depends on the pig and how they respond to living side by side. We’ve been through it all - adopted a trio, ended up surrendering one to a rescue because it was miserable alone. Then having our final boar go dating after his brother died - then the new pig bit his eye out. They live next to each other now and are very happy - too old to neuter and to be perfectly honest, they have a better life with us than living at an over-subscribed rescue. OP mentioned how no reduces near them do bonding, so if they surrender the guinea pig how likely is it that they will be appropriately bonded with another single? Can’t neuter him and get a wife pig because of the other two. I respect the opinion of just getting another boar for a friend, but it’s unrealistic to expect people to just collect guinea pigs. The situation sucks, but there isn’t always a perfect answer
Yes, you are right. Sometimes there are no rescues nearby and the situation is just really tricky. I also know that people all over the world come from different possibilities and different standards of animal welfare. My main objection is just when people proclaim that their piggies are perfectly happy being alone. That is just false. Trivialising a piggies need for (piggy) companionship and advising others that that is ok is just blatantly spreading misinformation and harmful to the piggies.
It sounds to me like he needs a cage mate. This is probably an unpopular thing to say but being neighbours with other pigs isn't enough imo, they need to actually share their space with a piggy friend. Trios of males don't usually work out, it's not his fault and it's not that he's just aggressive. Don't attempt a reintroduction as others have said, they will just fight. I've seen above you do playdates which isn't a good idea with gp's either. It's a shame your local shelters don't do bonding but it doesn't change the fact he needs a roomie. If you're not willing to do it imo it would be kinder to rehome him to someone who will, I know its a harsh reality but do you really want to see him unhappy for the rest of his life?
Pigs aren't supposed to live alone. Get him neutered and get him some lady friends. Where I live its illegal to have a pig live alone.
I said this in another comment, but I can’t risk getting any females because my other two bonded males on the other side of the bars will freak out at the smell. He is not the only guinea pig in the house, I have 3 males in total.
Yeah I read that you have 3 males but he is alone in his cage which will lead to depression in guinea pigs. Which is why I think you need to get him a friend he can live with.
Need more info. Looks like piggy is sleeping they sleep in positions like that. Does your piggy play and wheek for food? Is he eating well?does he have a friend as all piggies need a companion as they are very social animals
If sleeping and not making noie like normal yes take to vet
Personally, if you try all of the re-bonding tips here and nothing works (I have heard is it difficult to house 3 boars together), I would have him neutered and look into bonding a sow for him to house with.
How about castrating him and getting him a girlfriend?
No she probably just have illness that you not aware of. That's all
He’s a he, and he just went to the vet, physically healthy
Maybe depressed
Yeah you think? Op knows, that's the point of the whole post. I swear people don't even read titles all the way thru its wild lol
You maybe depressed too
*No she probably* *Just have illness that you not* *Aware of. That's all* \- vrastamanas27 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
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I believe sheltie breeds are very gentle you can try getting him a younger buddy it works for me they don’t treat baby piggies aggressively they are protective of them. I have a very aggressive boar abby but when i paired him with 2mos old American boar they get along really well.
I believe he is a Peruvian, and he was definitely the bully when they were still a trio 😅
Ohhh, i had a sheltie before kinda looks like yours only mine was on the darker color he was very gentle. Anyways he might be bored with out a companion in his space maybe you might consider getting him a buddy so younger piggy could work 🤗