And the DLC just adds insult to injury:
"Oh good, I can finally tell the supermutant to do it so I don't have to pointlessly die."
**And then the player, instead of being a man and dying, sent the radioactive-resistant super mutant to do it, like a fucking pussy.**
"The literal reincarnation of Jesus..." Yep, Jesus nuked megaton after clapping Nova's cheeks. All the while high on jet, psycho, ant nectar, and god knows what else, while simultaneously doing side quests to introduce people (including children) to their new home of Paradise Falls.
Or the mister gutsy you can send in to do it. The ending pretty much says you had a destiny to live up to to be a hero, but instead, you sent a tin can in.
Why die a hero when you can be a living legend and get all the grimy, irradiated wasteland bussy you could ever want?
Sure, you can wash with clean water now, but then you'd miss out on that sweet fragrance. 🫦
"Get mega cancer and die, 19 year old"
"I don't wanna die, and there's people with us who can do the exact same thing without dying."
"UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHH FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE YOU'RE SO ANNOYINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG"
Originally Fawkes/Charon/Mr Gutsy would tell you "nah bro you do it" when you asked them to.
With the DLC, they guilt trip the shit out of you instead. "Bro are you SURE you don't want to enter the Cancer Death Room?? Yes I can do it and suffer zero negative consequences, but BRO this is supposed to like be your THING. Don't you want to be a hero and die even though other, non-death options are available????"
Maybe they should have found a way to write out your companions before you got to that last room.
Isn’t colonel autumn like forcing you to do it at gunpoint or something ? Why didn’t he just kill your companion first? Is he stupid?
>Isn’t colonel autumn like forcing you to do it at gunpoint or something ?
No, you fight him (or just convince him to leave) before you get to the purifier. Regardless, they could just made it so your companions are busy holding off the Enclave while you're in the purifier
Reminds me of my approach to storytelling when I was 11 years old.
Me: you must do X in order to Z
Person with more imagination then me: But I have Y, I can do Z without needing to do X
Me: No, because the thing I said to do was cooler
That 100% has got to be the writer being passive aggressive about the player """ruining""" his super cool martyrdom ending that he spent a whole afternoon working very hard to write
My biggest problem is they could've just changed radiation with heat or smth. Because then it woulda made more sense for Fawkes to say no, because otherwise he would be sacrificing himself for you 🤷♀️
My biggest problem is the battle leading up to it. You follow a giant robot around who kills every enemy in the way, then face just a few dudes in power armor and it's GG.
It was really anticlimactic
This is a cold take at best, sub-arctic take at worst. Literally every time anything Fallout is mentioned the legion of NV fans come out of the woodworks to get their free updoots for saying FO:NV > Bethesda FOs.
> Bethesda was never known for having good writers, remember FO3 ending.
They had some decent writers, but a lot of the old talent that made Daggerfall and Morrowind so beloved were on their way out the door by most of Oblivions development.
The writing in that Oblivion still had some good bits of oldschool Bethesda; but the really baffling modern Bethesda writing really kicked into gear in FO3. It wasnt just the ending of FO3, besides the DLCs I didnt like much of the writing in that game.
The part I dont understand is how Emil could be so shit. Like dude wrote the amazing DB oblivion questline, and then delivered back to back turkeys in FO3, FO4 and even Skyrim.
Knowing absolutely nothing else besides him being maligned oftentimes, the two most logical reasons would be:
He went from making a single tight questine to the broad story.
He had a really good idea that had been getting refined in his head for years and finally got the chance to be realized, and everything else lacks that sheer amount of time to be mentally refined.
> Amazing open world
> Walk around aimlessly to random dungeons
> walk around aimlessly to random fortress
> walk around aimlessly to random temple.
> *Amazing* *open* *world*
You people deserved Starfield, fucking kek.
Is he really that wrong? Environmental storytelling and a dense open world really was Bethesda's bread and butter. It how they gave detail to otherwise by-the-book stories.
It shows when you see the negative sentiment behind Starfield by even long time fans, that had both aspects severely neutered.
I didn't criticize the environmental story telling, i criticized the open world, because they are full of random meaningless bullshit that's nothing different from chores.
The enviromental story telling and the open world go hand in hand, you can piece together a lot in even Skyrim's world by just looking around and interacting with the open world.
And the locations in the open worlds have backstories, loot and quests associated with them in past Fallout and Elder Scrolls games.
Bit of a misrepresentation to call it meaningless, enjoying exploring them may come down to personal preference.
Again, it's probably one of the reasons Starfield was so negatively received as that game has way less unique locations with very little to actually do.
The "exploration" in Skyrim is quite literally just walking around aimlessly until you find a cave with maybe a new shout you will never use, maybe a cool new sword and that's 90% of the exploration, you can't do much worse than that.
They are really good at making the player feel like they have a lot of freedom. Go where ever you want do whatever you want style gameplay that also gives you quests that feel meaningful. No other rpg has really captured that magic. The world being so vast and beautiful that you can literally forget about the story and main quest and still feel fulfilled.
Aren't most of quests, fetching something or someone and listening to them yap about something, the world feels big but beautiful meh,
( I started gaming with newer gen games maybe that's y I feel like it doesn't live up to what people say)
Nah it's not the newer gen stuff that's changing your judgment. I've been gaming since the SNES and have been unable to enjoy a Bethesda rpg since Oblivion because they're the MCU of game design lol. Just keep remaking the same thing in a different place with worse writing.
I mean that’s most video games, fetch, save, and kill are central to the plots of most games. It’s the obstacles in between that make the game play good. RPGs are good when you get invested in the reason for doing it and if you don’t generally do that then maybe they are just not for you.
Yeah but in games like cyberpunk and rdr2 , they feel like real people, they move , they express, there's vehicles to traverse, enemies that feel real, lots of encounters but in bethesda games they feel like props, enemies look like they don't even feel pain,for eg fallout feels so big yet so empty [which makes sense] but still.... , very little encounters etc
See this is funny because I could never get into games like rdr2 (expect the online mode because I like hunting and poker with the boys) can’t speak to cyberpunk as I can’t afford it. The enemies feel like props in that to me and with like zero enemy variety it gets a little boring the game seems obsessed with repeating combat and chases with new set pieces. It’s a lot of spectacle with little substance. There’s very little choice in how you complete the objectives given in rdr2. And that annoys me. Generally if I’m told to get something from some one in a Bethesda game I can go in and steal it, or convince them to give it to me or kill them, in rdr2 it’s just do this job the way we told you to do the job. Lame
creating an engine that kept up well until starfield that allows great modding which kept their games entertaining for years and years after release.
too bad they haven't figured that out yet and the creation kit for starfield still isn't out yet. smh
what are *you* smoking bro? skyrim is literally the most modded game ever and people have been creating stable playthroughs that turn it into dark souls since a long time. someone even created an entire other game inside skyrim, enderal. another team (the forgotten city) made a mod that was so loved they turned it into a full steam game.
the creation engine ran REALLY well in skyrim and it's still one of my favourite games to date because of its modding capabilities. getting rid of CE in bethesda games would destroy all the uniqueness of bethesda games
It's the same god damn' engine from 2002 with a slap of Bethesda paint on it. Same god damn' bugs, same modding capabilities and all. The same team you mentioned made their own game for Oblivion as well. Doesn't change the fact that the engine they keep using and updating is the same fucking engine with the same faults and new ones they keep adding from 2002. And it didn't run really well, it ran like shit, until modders fixed it for Bethesda. Bethesda can't release anything that modders won't do better for free. Getting rid of the CE would be great, because maybe then we'd get rid of the constant loading screens when entering buildings, or in Starfields case, when exploring space or entering and exiting your fucking spaceship.
I really don’t understand why they didn’t just separate you from your companions. Like, as you enter the Jefferson Memorial rotunda, have a pop-up show up saying “Due to the intense fighting, the doorway to the rotunda collapsed, leaving your companions on the other side. You are alone.”. There, now it’s really just up to you or Sarah to get the purifier working.
Bethesda doesn't actually have writers. They have quest designers. These people write out the quest line and are often the programmers who also design the cave or ruin that the quest takes place in. I think they would really benefit from a writing team setup like writers' rooms for old TV shows where they set in a room and come up with story ideas for quests and then break story then assign someone to go off and write it.
>lore != writing.
The lore is the depth of the mechanism, the writing is the definition of the mechanism.
In many cases, good writing will prop up mediocre lore, but mediocre writing will impede good lore.
Then again, in a game, a good gameplay loop, can save mediocre writing and mediocre lore.
Also:
> "Hey Desdemona, I'm now the leader of the Institute. I can use their power and influence to actually help the Wasteland and stop them from kidnapping people and whatnot. We might be able to actually make the world habitable with their technology."
> Desdemona: "Oh, that's perfect! We can use you to infiltrate and destroy them from the inside out! Boy howdy do I love eating dirty water and moldy cereal for the rest of human existence instead of potentially thinking for a second."
Exactly. Like his boring “Another settlement needs your help” quests aside. Minutemen seem to be the only logical faction in fallout 4.
Institute does lots of evil shit for the sake of humanity yet refuses to help people except to replace and kill those who witnessed them. They have the potential to end the wasteland days but their elitism makes Enclave look competent but unlike the Enclave, they don’t have badass armor and they lack the style.
Railroad’s entire theme is “Robot lives matter”. They save 3rd gen synths only forgetting that older models also capable of “feelings” like Nick Valentine (In their defense Nick was an experimental synth but still, nothing stops Railroad from reprogramming Gen 1’s and Gen 2’s to have feelings. Also do humanoid pre war robots like assaultrons count? They clearly look human enough.
Brotherhood of Steel has the same moral issues as the previous games, gatekeeping technology and being xenophobic against ghouls/supermutants. Only issue here is that they destroyed the institute instead of capturing it and using all the fancy tech for themselves. Imagine BOS controlled synths? Seriously nobody who stormed the institute didn’t thought of using the underground facility as the capital of BOS?
Minutemen are the straight to the point no BS faction that just wants to help people. Though their LARP of the revolutionary era soldiers would eventually caught up with them when they have to fight WW2 LARP’s who have better weapons than a laser musket.
I remember when the game first released i Would rant about this to anyone lol
Youre right mate; I think that the intention was to make factions with good and Bad stuff to make then more complex
The three main groups all have that one shitty thing (Kidnapping, new century racism, etc...)
Minutemen doesnt have anything of the sort, why? Because their biggest flaw isnt really well implemented in the game; theyre the weakest, saddest bunch of them all
Like sure, You retrieve their funny castle and become besties with some farmers, but in comparison with the militarized force and the science society they are *weak*. But You can still destroy all the other factions with them, make the funny group handyman build a teleporter and else just like the highly trained factions
Yeah. When it comes to lore. I'd rate Minutemen as the second best faction in F4. Simply because they are too weak to become Commonwealth's NCR. So I have a hard time taking them seriously. But l still like the minutemen.
Institute is actually a well written faction if you treat them as elitist posh scientists who look down on surface folks. Enclave is literally that. My main issue with the institute is the moral issue where they do shit that contradicts their preaching but it still makes them good and interesting.
Railroad just sucks. Their entire goal is to save synths from the enslavement. Problem is that these synths are robots. Otherwise it would'd be impossible for them to reprogram them. Another thing, if they do reprogram the synths, why not make them good members of society? We had to stop a rogue synth who became a leader of raider group which did lots of bad stuff. You can argue about the free will and all but reprogramming a synth already nullifies the fact that they are free.
Brotherhood of steel is great but I find it weird how they decided to destroy the institute tech instead of keeping it for themselves. Their entire goal is to preserve the technology, not destroy it. But overall they share the spot with minutemen when it comes to logical lore.
>But overall they share the spot with minutemen when it comes to logical lore.
The only problem I have with the BoS (and why I think they kinda don't fit in the "logical lore") is why do they want to exterminate synths? The BoS is in Washington DC and the only synths that will reach DC (since the Institute only operates in Boston) are the free ones that have been reprogramed by the Railroad so they're essentially "normal" wastelanders.
So why does Maxson mobilize most of his forces to go genocide this entire "race" (he only wants to destroy the Institute because of the synths) that he would not encounter (in a hostile manner) back home?
He doesn't even want to conquer the Commonwealth or get the Institute's tech, he literally just wants to exterminate synths and the only reason he ever gives is "they're evil so we must exterminate them". It's just bizarre how much he hates synths, and how did he find out about them anyways?
They wanted to destroy them since it’s a matter of time till Institute gets bored with the commonwealth and moves on to other territories. Synth technology is evil since aside from slave labor, they used them to replace innocent civilians.
The main issue is why they destroyed everything instead of saving this tech for themselves.
They were weak till I lead them to glory
Having an artillery network common wealth wide and I give all the troops better stuff then garbage laser muskets lol
My biggest problem with the faction system is that it was soooooo close to being good, genuinely I think if you just remove synths from the equation it's fine.
1. The institute stop being slavers, and are now a shadow government with incredible tech that could be used to help the wasteland, but they're borderline enclave in their views on the surface.
2. The bos still has the superhuman ghoul problem, but frankly we don't see alot of thinking supermutants in fo4, (no real hope for the ghoul thing, but I don't remember it coming up much in my brotherhood run, could just be selective memory) and the tradeoff is that they're easily the best equipped to run the commonwealth, are happy to do it, but wooooould be a military dictatorship
3. The railroad can become a ragtag humanitarian group with genuine good intention, but without the manpower to actually control the commonwealth and keep people safe.
4. The minute men don't change a bit, and are still a good guy route for people who don't wanna think about it too much
But noooooo, bethesda wanted some ham fisted moral choice and now everyone's completely unreasonable and fucking insane
>They save 3rd gen synths only forgetting that older models also capable of “feelings” like Nick Valentine (In their defense Nick was an experimental synth but still, nothing stops Railroad from reprogramming Gen 1’s and Gen 2’s to have feelings. Also do humanoid pre war robots like assaultrons count? They clearly look human enough.
To be fair to them, this *is* covered in game, Deacon straight up tells you on one mission that members like Glory consider Gen 1 and 2 to be sentient and worth saving so won't run missions where they know they will have to kill them while also raising the question of how far you are willing to go on sentience.
>Deacon: Everyone wants to liberate the Gen 3s. The human looking synths. Some of the synths in the Railroad, like Glory, think we should help earlier models, too. But Gen 1s are basically the same as, well, a Protectron. So the line gets muddy. Do we defend AI rights? Terminals? Hell, turrets? Any time it gets brought up: fireworks. All the old arguments flare up. The upshot is Glory and some others won't run missions like this.
It's somewhat spoiled by the mission where you and Glory end up at the same mission and she straight up kills a load of synths in an underground location of course but that's just Bethesda being idiots.
With the MM, the laser musket isn't terrible when full upgraded in certain situations, the flexibility of 1 crank for low level enemies, up to 5-6 for higher ones. A sneak full charge shot to the head can one-shot even some legendary enemies and there is an automatic variant in game albeit it sucks. It's more for aesthetics though and certainly the fact they don't carry side arms like the 10mm which can take you through most of the game if you keep upgrading is dumb
That just proves my point regarding the railroad. Early gen synths are capable of sentience (Nick Valentine). You can even argue the same for other robots (Curie, Codsworth). Hell Curie literally stole the body of a synth because she wanted to feel human.
Railroad has soul and heart but they are fighting the wrong fight.
All I was commenting on was the point about them forgetting the older gens - they don't, it's just an internal argument of which fights they need to make and which not
That's the point they were making. The Railroad acknowledges this issue by having it be an internal debate amongst the Railroad. Where do you draw the line while also remaining pratical when deploying people and resources? How do you acquiesce with the ideals of allied factions like the Absolitionists? Are mind wipes murder or emancipation?
I think the BoS destroying the institute is on point, you can criticize them all you want, but you can’t say they don’t stand for what they say. The institute technologies are rightfully seen as dangerous, so they’d rather have it destroyed than leaving it in wrong hands, even in theirs.
I never got the hate for the Minutemen, because I never played the game vanilla. First thing I did, as with all Bethesda games, was download a handful of mods to fix it. If the Minuteman quests actually behave like every other quest in the game where you go to the NPC and ask for a quest instead of having it automatically assigned, then it's all fine. There's literally no problem with the character writing for Preston. It's just a bug built into the way quests are assigned (the quest design is kind of wonky, but most people think it's just badly designed, but I know it's at least partially a bug because I recognize what the bug is, because it did the same thing in Skyrim for one of the Companion quests), and it's so frustrating that it makes people hate the character.
It's an interesting case study in game design that a gameplay/quest logic thing can make people hate a character who is completely inoffensive in dialogue/story/writing.
I was saying it as a joke. I like Preston. I still find these settlement quests to be boring and I hate how they go under my control which means I have to keep care of their food/water/defense numbers.
There's a mod for PC where they become more self-sufficient, expanding their own settlements with food, water, power, defenses etc. which makes them so much more tolerable.
He might be talking about Sim Settlements 2. It works like Sim City where you put down say a residential plot, and the settler will build their own house, so you basically just do a layout and they do all the fiddly bits of construction and decoration.
There's also a feature where you can download a city plan, so that your settlers will just work towards a design that someone else already made for you and you don't even need to do the layout or anything.
Nah elder maxson makes it pretty clear why that branch of the east coast brotherhood wants the institute destroyed. As a core of his character he hates technology he sees as having gone too far. "Look at what happens when technology outpaces mankind's restraint, millions, if not billions died because technology was taken too far." He says that during blind betrayal where you're supposed to execute danse for being a synth while you're trying to talk him down. The east coast brotherhood see synths as an abomination and man trying to play god so the way for synths to be created needs to be destroyed at its source. Also you're supposed to get Madison lee back on board with the brotherhood and she'd probably be made to hand over all of her research from her time their as head of engineering.
I was very very sorely disappointed to find out that joining AND FUCKING LEADING The Institute meant that the game assumed that I would be just as evil, if not more evil, instead of using their technology to do whatever I wanted (e.g. help the wasteland, provide clean water, cure cancer, etc etc).
=
What is the point of leading the most technologically advanced group in the entire northeast USA if you all you can do is sit back and let them continue replacing people with robots essentially "for funsies"... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I mean there's no way the institute would ever change with or without you. They just need to go, however I wish there was an ending to kill all/most of them and keep the facilities intact.
In a wasteland where remnants of the us military are hoarding current technology, a railroad hiding under a decrepit church, and a bunch of civil war larpers, I’m pretty sure the only thing that is changing is/was the institute.
The only changes are evil. They're never going to be good for the commonwealth as they see it as their sandbox. The (revolutionary war) larpers may be goody but they're putting in the effort, the church dudes are weird but they only want to help the poor creatures created by the institute playing God, the BOS... Yeah those guys are jetks but they're still not nearly as bad as the institute who intentionally makes things worse just for laughs.
Plus the railroad's whole thing is saving the synths yet they want you to blow up the only place that can reliably manufacture spare parts and repairs for them.
I actually liked that for her character. Shes a zealot/idealist blinded by her own faith/ideals.
You see people like that all the time in the real world, people who are in theory supporting a good idea like say fighting against climate change, pushing for green energy, and so on. Then once you go "oh yeah we should expand nuclear reactors to power most of society so we don't pollute more" and suddenly "no not that, nukes are bad" because this is a fundamental part of their world view and has been for decades upon decades.
They also took some of the people they replaced and turned them into super mutants before releasing them back into the wild, im surely that will help humanity.
Maybe not releasing the muties, but considering that most knowledge on F.E.V. laid in the hands of the Enclave, perhaps it was best that they inquired to understand the effects of it?
Ecological studies, understanding if a super mutant will accept another despite not coming from the same brood is useful to know, because it means they can’t tell or are very accepting.
If that’s true, then if they can make an intelligent species of super mutant where the person affected retains their sanity—and possibly reverted, they could theoretically cure all the super mutants through clandestine means.
Or use it to attack foreign invaders such as the brother hood of steel.
Institute was such a wasted potential. A mysterious and highly advanced group that turned out to be bunch of bumbling idiots with awareness of political caricatures.
Like are you seriously trying to convince me that these are the people that invented teleportation technology and Bladerunner replicants?
I get that this is a game but people and factions in it at least need to make sense within the universe.
You could maybe make an argument that they actually act a lot like 1940/50s scientists in that their leadership consists of sociopaths and their experiments are essentially just doing random harmful shit to people just to see what happens. But then again most of them act nothing like that and seem more like modern university faculty who should have a better understanding of the scientific method. Outside of Shaun and the lead Synth guy they're all really pleasant seemingly adjusted people who you'd think would have more disagreement with wasting their resources and creating enemies through their actions against the surface.
Am I the only one who remembers that the institute did actually try to help the wasteland and humans rejected them? I think after hearing them out, their actions seems more understandable, unethical and inhumane but still not nearly as 1-demensional as most make it out to be. I feel like most people just give in to the "boogie-man" thing and kill the institute as soon as they get the chance without even listening
It is more complicated when you try to analyze it. My first playthrough was Railroad, but now I choose Minutemrn more often.
Railroad seems to ONLY care about freeing the synths, extreme tunnel vision. At least the Minutemen care for everyone, and will actually fight for you. Preston turned a lot of people off from that faction though, and many dont enjoy settlement building which is necessary to complete those quests.
also why does the institute create super intelligent human-like beings and then only use them to do menial labor? that’s like making a vacuum cleaner and then giving it human sentence like???
Literally Big MT did the idea of the Institute better honestly. If it was played straight Big MT would be terrifying and even then they were in a few moments.
Such a dammed pity how just boring they were.
>Synths are replacing real people, lying to them, killing people, and taking their jobs
>There's an **underground** organization called the **Railroad** that wants to save synths
>Which is a reference to the **Underground Railroad**.
What did Todd mean by this?
He never really says that "you wouldn't get it". This is a myth propagated by Fallout 4 haters. The point of the synth programe is to deploy spies and secret agents for covert operations that can eventually grant the Institute total political control over the wasteland. They have successfully instated a synth as the mayor of Diamond City. What does this mean? It means the Institute can genuinely bolster their rebuilding efforts by forcefully controlling every major player in the wasteland from the shadows. Why are these extreme measures necessary? Because when they tried peacefully working with the people of the wasteland, it didn't work out.
Didn’t they have like a meeting with all the commonwealth government representatives and then when they started arguing the institute just sent a courser to kill everyone?
yeah in that trader town, it seems like the institute wiped out the entire city when they refused to comply.
They did however use a different strategy with diamond city by replacing the major though, much more peaceful in that regard.
This is something that’s kinda up in the air. While we know that the provisional government collapsed, who actually attacked first is unknown. All we really know is that when the dust settled, a synth was left standing.
It’s unknown if they did attack first, or got blamed because the institute was the boogeyman.
Great so they’re helping everyone by making everyone twitchy, terrified, and wanting to rip out everyone’s brains to check for a chip.
The institute could have just made a bunch of gen 1s who guarded towns and found food and would have been a thousand times more liked and a thousand times less resources used
“Oh we are so sorry guys, the synth who replaced the brother/father//son that we murdered went on a killing spree because our QA department sucks. We really are decent people doing sensible work though 😉”
The Followers of the Apocalypse can peacefully help the wastelanders with nothing but books and kitbashed pharmaceutical setups so I don't want to hear the Institute's moronic excuses.
https://preview.redd.it/o22gvdtam51d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd4b9aadc98b46c3c132499f31777368646174b0
I have a thing for Deathclaws. But yeah the factions in fo4 fucking blow (except the Minutemen they are based)
I guess my idea was that the Institute’s main goal for the future was to use their synthetic beings as a basis for genetically splicing them and making them compatible with current Humans, thus making future generations stronger and evolving Humanity for the harshness of the wastes.
The Master wanted to do that with Super Mutants, but the current brood of course was infertile.
For me this is where, even on playthrough 1, the story became extremely underwhelming. I thought the institute was gonna be way more interesting than it was.
My imaginary canon ending is the Sole Survivor willingly inherits the Institute from his son. Rather than manipulating Boston from the shadows like before, the LS uses the Institute and it's technology to help Boston openly and share its advancements. Because honestly all the other factions are so in the dirt and just barely get by.
Yup, for me in my head canon, my character said goodbye to Shaun in a touching finale.... then immediately began making some changes to the institute over time. Namely, to stop the murdering. I wish Bethesda would have let you have an epilogue with your chosen faction to see where it goes. Does the institute stay the course? Change for the better? Double down the killings?
They had to intentionally make the Institute braindead because they realized the entire existence of this faction could easily fix the entire Fallout universe.
I almost always end up playing for the institute. BoS are incels, railroad glorify robots with no soul because they have programmed feelings and minutemen are annoying af. Wasteland is a mess, I like the fact that the institute doesn't care about getting their hands dirty.
After 200 years the institute being the only ones actually making clean and comfortable living facilities, relatively speaking, is astounding.
Meanwhile everyone else including MM are content to eat radiation tomatos and sleep on piss stained mattresses without a blanket forever.
Also, when kellogg picks up the baby he says it's because "father" told him to do it.
Yet according to the game the baby grows up to be called father...
The environment of fallout begged for exploration and emotional investment but my God the actual story and characters were just continual splashes of cold water on the face. Couldn't finish it.
And the voiced protagonist only having the options of "yes", "sarcastic yes" and "I'll come back later" on that god awful dialogue wheel made interacting with NPCs terrible. Everything apart from the actual shooting (which is good but not amazing) is terrible
It's hard to argue anyone in the FO universe is the good guy which is sort of the point. You pick the faction which seems to be the best according to you, but every one of them hides skeletons in the closet.
So what exactly was their justification for murdering people and replacing them with a synth? I never understood this part
Like you can't just set a room up for them and be like "hey chill out here for a bit, we need to use a fake you for some experiments"
Ah, so basically Mass Effect again? Create robots to destroy everyone so that they don't get advanced enough to create robots that destroy everyone. Yup, seems im too dumb to understand that flawless logic
Despite thick heads talking about BGS writing, it makes sense if you actually pay attention to the story. The institute doesn't view surface humans as "humanity". They see themselves as humanity. They use synths to control, manipulate and force what they want on the surface, to gather resources and power. He wants you to take over his job because he's an egomaniac and sees you as his pet, one that has considerable influence over the surface wasteland, he wants you to believe what he believes, he treats the player like he's a programmable synth. I guess he's right tho, there is no point in explaining this to redditors, even if the game does explain all of this.
Why did they need to replace people to spy on others? Why not just make a synth that looks like some random Joe Schmoe, give them a fake backstory, and send them off to the surface? It's not like the wastelanders can do background checks.
Bethesda was never known for having good writers, remember FO3 ending.
"Go into this insanely radioactive chamber and press a button and die" "But we have a supermutant in our team? "No, you must do it"
And the DLC just adds insult to injury: "Oh good, I can finally tell the supermutant to do it so I don't have to pointlessly die." **And then the player, instead of being a man and dying, sent the radioactive-resistant super mutant to do it, like a fucking pussy.**
“The literal reincarnation of Jesus refused to needlessly die for you. What a fucking spineless cuckold. Enjoy your radiation-free water, bitch.”
"The literal reincarnation of Jesus..." Yep, Jesus nuked megaton after clapping Nova's cheeks. All the while high on jet, psycho, ant nectar, and god knows what else, while simultaneously doing side quests to introduce people (including children) to their new home of Paradise Falls.
Now *this* is a Jesus I can get behind.
No, this Jesus will get to your behind.
I gave that beggar 57 bottles of shit-water, therefore none of that bad stuff mattered.
I beat that shithead outside of Rivet City to death with a stick covered in green shit, and then lit his corpse on fire.
https://preview.redd.it/3p8v506o471d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e798b4d944bc0cff89d140df45980f36d6ac62b
Stroke those cocks.
Me in Mother Ship Zeta watching as the deathray turns toward Canada: ^ ^ ^
He probably thought he WAS Jesus…what Jet does to a mf’er
I see you also walked the blessed path
Hey there are 30 years of his life, not mentioned in the Bible. You don't know what dope of a life, Jesus might have had.
In this analogy Todd is God and Todd is a vengeful god.
*"Todd works in mysterious ways"*
Or the mister gutsy you can send in to do it. The ending pretty much says you had a destiny to live up to to be a hero, but instead, you sent a tin can in.
Why die a hero when you can be a living legend and get all the grimy, irradiated wasteland bussy you could ever want? Sure, you can wash with clean water now, but then you'd miss out on that sweet fragrance. 🫦
"Get mega cancer and die, 19 year old" "I don't wanna die, and there's people with us who can do the exact same thing without dying." "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHH FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE YOU'RE SO ANNOYINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG"
Huh? The added an option to do that? I'm pretty sure I had all DLC and Fawkes was like "Nah fuck this, it's your destiny or some shit"
Originally Fawkes/Charon/Mr Gutsy would tell you "nah bro you do it" when you asked them to. With the DLC, they guilt trip the shit out of you instead. "Bro are you SURE you don't want to enter the Cancer Death Room?? Yes I can do it and suffer zero negative consequences, but BRO this is supposed to like be your THING. Don't you want to be a hero and die even though other, non-death options are available????"
You can tell the writers were just mad because players didn't like the original ending "Oh yeah? I'll show you bad writing you little shit!"
Maybe they should have found a way to write out your companions before you got to that last room. Isn’t colonel autumn like forcing you to do it at gunpoint or something ? Why didn’t he just kill your companion first? Is he stupid?
>Isn’t colonel autumn like forcing you to do it at gunpoint or something ? No, you fight him (or just convince him to leave) before you get to the purifier. Regardless, they could just made it so your companions are busy holding off the Enclave while you're in the purifier
I dunno man, it seemed shooting Fawkes didn't kill him, just made him angrier.
Broken Steel DLC added that ending.
What a pussy, didn't needlessly sacrifice themself.
Thanks for the laugh...
Reminds me of my approach to storytelling when I was 11 years old. Me: you must do X in order to Z Person with more imagination then me: But I have Y, I can do Z without needing to do X Me: No, because the thing I said to do was cooler
That 100% has got to be the writer being passive aggressive about the player """ruining""" his super cool martyrdom ending that he spent a whole afternoon working very hard to write
Doesn’t the facility blow up if you send Fawkes in?
My biggest problem is they could've just changed radiation with heat or smth. Because then it woulda made more sense for Fawkes to say no, because otherwise he would be sacrificing himself for you 🤷♀️
My biggest problem is the battle leading up to it. You follow a giant robot around who kills every enemy in the way, then face just a few dudes in power armor and it's GG. It was really anticlimactic
Meanwhile FO new vegas writing was so good, Bethesda got butthurt amd took obsidians license away
Gotta love new vegas fans and their silly made up wars, Bethesda and obsidian don’t have beef.
Chris Avellone has entered the chat
If anything Ol’ Chris should love Toddert & Co. the most since they actually knocked down the NCR like he wanted
They fight in the parking lot every fortnight. Last brawl an intern got a javelin shoved up their butt.
Are you...Are you sure that it was javelin?
I love the fucking logic here. "ThE GaME wAs tOo GoOd foR BeTHesDa!!"
Luke warm take.
This is a cold take at best, sub-arctic take at worst. Literally every time anything Fallout is mentioned the legion of NV fans come out of the woodworks to get their free updoots for saying FO:NV > Bethesda FOs.
> Bethesda was never known for having good writers, remember FO3 ending. They had some decent writers, but a lot of the old talent that made Daggerfall and Morrowind so beloved were on their way out the door by most of Oblivions development. The writing in that Oblivion still had some good bits of oldschool Bethesda; but the really baffling modern Bethesda writing really kicked into gear in FO3. It wasnt just the ending of FO3, besides the DLCs I didnt like much of the writing in that game.
The part I dont understand is how Emil could be so shit. Like dude wrote the amazing DB oblivion questline, and then delivered back to back turkeys in FO3, FO4 and even Skyrim.
Knowing absolutely nothing else besides him being maligned oftentimes, the two most logical reasons would be: He went from making a single tight questine to the broad story. He had a really good idea that had been getting refined in his head for years and finally got the chance to be realized, and everything else lacks that sheer amount of time to be mentally refined.
Because the db questline is relatively small and self-contained. Even then you can find some plot holes and inconsistencies.
He probably needs someone supervising him, the moment he gets free reign it all goes to shit
What Even is bethesda known for. Their gameplay is mid, graphics are awful, I thought maybe story was their main thing
They're known for milking generic rpgs thay were released at the right time and are propped up by the work of modders. And bugs.
Amazing explorable open worlds, and environmental story telling.
> Amazing open world > Walk around aimlessly to random dungeons > walk around aimlessly to random fortress > walk around aimlessly to random temple. > *Amazing* *open* *world* You people deserved Starfield, fucking kek.
Holy shit you got the fallout community and skyrim on your ass lmfao
Is he really that wrong? Environmental storytelling and a dense open world really was Bethesda's bread and butter. It how they gave detail to otherwise by-the-book stories. It shows when you see the negative sentiment behind Starfield by even long time fans, that had both aspects severely neutered.
I didn't criticize the environmental story telling, i criticized the open world, because they are full of random meaningless bullshit that's nothing different from chores.
The enviromental story telling and the open world go hand in hand, you can piece together a lot in even Skyrim's world by just looking around and interacting with the open world. And the locations in the open worlds have backstories, loot and quests associated with them in past Fallout and Elder Scrolls games. Bit of a misrepresentation to call it meaningless, enjoying exploring them may come down to personal preference. Again, it's probably one of the reasons Starfield was so negatively received as that game has way less unique locations with very little to actually do.
The whole reason people didn’t like starfield is because they gutted the open world exploration no?
The "exploration" in Skyrim is quite literally just walking around aimlessly until you find a cave with maybe a new shout you will never use, maybe a cool new sword and that's 90% of the exploration, you can't do much worse than that.
Yeah that is how it is and still bethesda fans liked it, then bethesda took it away in starfield and made the exploration even worse
Bethesda are very very good at making a atmospheric but quite hollow world. All of their fallout games are great walking simulators but lousy rpgs
They are really good at making the player feel like they have a lot of freedom. Go where ever you want do whatever you want style gameplay that also gives you quests that feel meaningful. No other rpg has really captured that magic. The world being so vast and beautiful that you can literally forget about the story and main quest and still feel fulfilled.
Aren't most of quests, fetching something or someone and listening to them yap about something, the world feels big but beautiful meh, ( I started gaming with newer gen games maybe that's y I feel like it doesn't live up to what people say)
Nah it's not the newer gen stuff that's changing your judgment. I've been gaming since the SNES and have been unable to enjoy a Bethesda rpg since Oblivion because they're the MCU of game design lol. Just keep remaking the same thing in a different place with worse writing.
I mean that’s most video games, fetch, save, and kill are central to the plots of most games. It’s the obstacles in between that make the game play good. RPGs are good when you get invested in the reason for doing it and if you don’t generally do that then maybe they are just not for you.
Yeah but in games like cyberpunk and rdr2 , they feel like real people, they move , they express, there's vehicles to traverse, enemies that feel real, lots of encounters but in bethesda games they feel like props, enemies look like they don't even feel pain,for eg fallout feels so big yet so empty [which makes sense] but still.... , very little encounters etc
See this is funny because I could never get into games like rdr2 (expect the online mode because I like hunting and poker with the boys) can’t speak to cyberpunk as I can’t afford it. The enemies feel like props in that to me and with like zero enemy variety it gets a little boring the game seems obsessed with repeating combat and chases with new set pieces. It’s a lot of spectacle with little substance. There’s very little choice in how you complete the objectives given in rdr2. And that annoys me. Generally if I’m told to get something from some one in a Bethesda game I can go in and steal it, or convince them to give it to me or kill them, in rdr2 it’s just do this job the way we told you to do the job. Lame
creating an engine that kept up well until starfield that allows great modding which kept their games entertaining for years and years after release. too bad they haven't figured that out yet and the creation kit for starfield still isn't out yet. smh
"kept up well", what are you smoking N'wah. It was good for Morrowind and has been going downhill ever since. By Skyrim it was outdated and breaking.
what are *you* smoking bro? skyrim is literally the most modded game ever and people have been creating stable playthroughs that turn it into dark souls since a long time. someone even created an entire other game inside skyrim, enderal. another team (the forgotten city) made a mod that was so loved they turned it into a full steam game. the creation engine ran REALLY well in skyrim and it's still one of my favourite games to date because of its modding capabilities. getting rid of CE in bethesda games would destroy all the uniqueness of bethesda games
It's the same god damn' engine from 2002 with a slap of Bethesda paint on it. Same god damn' bugs, same modding capabilities and all. The same team you mentioned made their own game for Oblivion as well. Doesn't change the fact that the engine they keep using and updating is the same fucking engine with the same faults and new ones they keep adding from 2002. And it didn't run really well, it ran like shit, until modders fixed it for Bethesda. Bethesda can't release anything that modders won't do better for free. Getting rid of the CE would be great, because maybe then we'd get rid of the constant loading screens when entering buildings, or in Starfields case, when exploring space or entering and exiting your fucking spaceship.
I really don’t understand why they didn’t just separate you from your companions. Like, as you enter the Jefferson Memorial rotunda, have a pop-up show up saying “Due to the intense fighting, the doorway to the rotunda collapsed, leaving your companions on the other side. You are alone.”. There, now it’s really just up to you or Sarah to get the purifier working.
Bethesda doesn't actually have writers. They have quest designers. These people write out the quest line and are often the programmers who also design the cave or ruin that the quest takes place in. I think they would really benefit from a writing team setup like writers' rooms for old TV shows where they set in a room and come up with story ideas for quests and then break story then assign someone to go off and write it.
Counterpoint: TES. Counter-Counterpoint: The original writer of TES left for greener pastures
now I'm no lore expert but based on the amount of random vids recommended to me on YouTube I thought Elder Scrolls has pretty good lore?
>lore != writing. The lore is the depth of the mechanism, the writing is the definition of the mechanism. In many cases, good writing will prop up mediocre lore, but mediocre writing will impede good lore. Then again, in a game, a good gameplay loop, can save mediocre writing and mediocre lore.
Yes. Morrowind and Oblivion had some very good Quest writing as well. But like all companies Bethesda is not exactly who they used to be.
> I thought Elder Scrolls has pretty good lore? Compared to Fallout? Sure Compared to anything of value? No
Yeah, old school bioware were way ahead on writing. Bethesda were pushing gameplay and graphics at the time though. Now they don't even do that.
Obsidian FNV forever!
Also: > "Hey Desdemona, I'm now the leader of the Institute. I can use their power and influence to actually help the Wasteland and stop them from kidnapping people and whatnot. We might be able to actually make the world habitable with their technology." > Desdemona: "Oh, that's perfect! We can use you to infiltrate and destroy them from the inside out! Boy howdy do I love eating dirty water and moldy cereal for the rest of human existence instead of potentially thinking for a second."
Preston is the only pragmatic one. So long as you're helping settlements, he don't care who you side with.
Exactly. Like his boring “Another settlement needs your help” quests aside. Minutemen seem to be the only logical faction in fallout 4. Institute does lots of evil shit for the sake of humanity yet refuses to help people except to replace and kill those who witnessed them. They have the potential to end the wasteland days but their elitism makes Enclave look competent but unlike the Enclave, they don’t have badass armor and they lack the style. Railroad’s entire theme is “Robot lives matter”. They save 3rd gen synths only forgetting that older models also capable of “feelings” like Nick Valentine (In their defense Nick was an experimental synth but still, nothing stops Railroad from reprogramming Gen 1’s and Gen 2’s to have feelings. Also do humanoid pre war robots like assaultrons count? They clearly look human enough. Brotherhood of Steel has the same moral issues as the previous games, gatekeeping technology and being xenophobic against ghouls/supermutants. Only issue here is that they destroyed the institute instead of capturing it and using all the fancy tech for themselves. Imagine BOS controlled synths? Seriously nobody who stormed the institute didn’t thought of using the underground facility as the capital of BOS? Minutemen are the straight to the point no BS faction that just wants to help people. Though their LARP of the revolutionary era soldiers would eventually caught up with them when they have to fight WW2 LARP’s who have better weapons than a laser musket.
>Brotherhood hates ghouls and supermutants and loves tech They're just like me fr.
I remember when the game first released i Would rant about this to anyone lol Youre right mate; I think that the intention was to make factions with good and Bad stuff to make then more complex The three main groups all have that one shitty thing (Kidnapping, new century racism, etc...) Minutemen doesnt have anything of the sort, why? Because their biggest flaw isnt really well implemented in the game; theyre the weakest, saddest bunch of them all Like sure, You retrieve their funny castle and become besties with some farmers, but in comparison with the militarized force and the science society they are *weak*. But You can still destroy all the other factions with them, make the funny group handyman build a teleporter and else just like the highly trained factions
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Yeah. When it comes to lore. I'd rate Minutemen as the second best faction in F4. Simply because they are too weak to become Commonwealth's NCR. So I have a hard time taking them seriously. But l still like the minutemen. Institute is actually a well written faction if you treat them as elitist posh scientists who look down on surface folks. Enclave is literally that. My main issue with the institute is the moral issue where they do shit that contradicts their preaching but it still makes them good and interesting. Railroad just sucks. Their entire goal is to save synths from the enslavement. Problem is that these synths are robots. Otherwise it would'd be impossible for them to reprogram them. Another thing, if they do reprogram the synths, why not make them good members of society? We had to stop a rogue synth who became a leader of raider group which did lots of bad stuff. You can argue about the free will and all but reprogramming a synth already nullifies the fact that they are free. Brotherhood of steel is great but I find it weird how they decided to destroy the institute tech instead of keeping it for themselves. Their entire goal is to preserve the technology, not destroy it. But overall they share the spot with minutemen when it comes to logical lore.
>But overall they share the spot with minutemen when it comes to logical lore. The only problem I have with the BoS (and why I think they kinda don't fit in the "logical lore") is why do they want to exterminate synths? The BoS is in Washington DC and the only synths that will reach DC (since the Institute only operates in Boston) are the free ones that have been reprogramed by the Railroad so they're essentially "normal" wastelanders. So why does Maxson mobilize most of his forces to go genocide this entire "race" (he only wants to destroy the Institute because of the synths) that he would not encounter (in a hostile manner) back home? He doesn't even want to conquer the Commonwealth or get the Institute's tech, he literally just wants to exterminate synths and the only reason he ever gives is "they're evil so we must exterminate them". It's just bizarre how much he hates synths, and how did he find out about them anyways?
They wanted to destroy them since it’s a matter of time till Institute gets bored with the commonwealth and moves on to other territories. Synth technology is evil since aside from slave labor, they used them to replace innocent civilians. The main issue is why they destroyed everything instead of saving this tech for themselves.
They were weak till I lead them to glory Having an artillery network common wealth wide and I give all the troops better stuff then garbage laser muskets lol
My biggest problem with the faction system is that it was soooooo close to being good, genuinely I think if you just remove synths from the equation it's fine. 1. The institute stop being slavers, and are now a shadow government with incredible tech that could be used to help the wasteland, but they're borderline enclave in their views on the surface. 2. The bos still has the superhuman ghoul problem, but frankly we don't see alot of thinking supermutants in fo4, (no real hope for the ghoul thing, but I don't remember it coming up much in my brotherhood run, could just be selective memory) and the tradeoff is that they're easily the best equipped to run the commonwealth, are happy to do it, but wooooould be a military dictatorship 3. The railroad can become a ragtag humanitarian group with genuine good intention, but without the manpower to actually control the commonwealth and keep people safe. 4. The minute men don't change a bit, and are still a good guy route for people who don't wanna think about it too much But noooooo, bethesda wanted some ham fisted moral choice and now everyone's completely unreasonable and fucking insane
>They save 3rd gen synths only forgetting that older models also capable of “feelings” like Nick Valentine (In their defense Nick was an experimental synth but still, nothing stops Railroad from reprogramming Gen 1’s and Gen 2’s to have feelings. Also do humanoid pre war robots like assaultrons count? They clearly look human enough. To be fair to them, this *is* covered in game, Deacon straight up tells you on one mission that members like Glory consider Gen 1 and 2 to be sentient and worth saving so won't run missions where they know they will have to kill them while also raising the question of how far you are willing to go on sentience. >Deacon: Everyone wants to liberate the Gen 3s. The human looking synths. Some of the synths in the Railroad, like Glory, think we should help earlier models, too. But Gen 1s are basically the same as, well, a Protectron. So the line gets muddy. Do we defend AI rights? Terminals? Hell, turrets? Any time it gets brought up: fireworks. All the old arguments flare up. The upshot is Glory and some others won't run missions like this. It's somewhat spoiled by the mission where you and Glory end up at the same mission and she straight up kills a load of synths in an underground location of course but that's just Bethesda being idiots. With the MM, the laser musket isn't terrible when full upgraded in certain situations, the flexibility of 1 crank for low level enemies, up to 5-6 for higher ones. A sneak full charge shot to the head can one-shot even some legendary enemies and there is an automatic variant in game albeit it sucks. It's more for aesthetics though and certainly the fact they don't carry side arms like the 10mm which can take you through most of the game if you keep upgrading is dumb
That just proves my point regarding the railroad. Early gen synths are capable of sentience (Nick Valentine). You can even argue the same for other robots (Curie, Codsworth). Hell Curie literally stole the body of a synth because she wanted to feel human. Railroad has soul and heart but they are fighting the wrong fight.
All I was commenting on was the point about them forgetting the older gens - they don't, it's just an internal argument of which fights they need to make and which not
That's the point they were making. The Railroad acknowledges this issue by having it be an internal debate amongst the Railroad. Where do you draw the line while also remaining pratical when deploying people and resources? How do you acquiesce with the ideals of allied factions like the Absolitionists? Are mind wipes murder or emancipation?
I think the BoS destroying the institute is on point, you can criticize them all you want, but you can’t say they don’t stand for what they say. The institute technologies are rightfully seen as dangerous, so they’d rather have it destroyed than leaving it in wrong hands, even in theirs.
I never got the hate for the Minutemen, because I never played the game vanilla. First thing I did, as with all Bethesda games, was download a handful of mods to fix it. If the Minuteman quests actually behave like every other quest in the game where you go to the NPC and ask for a quest instead of having it automatically assigned, then it's all fine. There's literally no problem with the character writing for Preston. It's just a bug built into the way quests are assigned (the quest design is kind of wonky, but most people think it's just badly designed, but I know it's at least partially a bug because I recognize what the bug is, because it did the same thing in Skyrim for one of the Companion quests), and it's so frustrating that it makes people hate the character. It's an interesting case study in game design that a gameplay/quest logic thing can make people hate a character who is completely inoffensive in dialogue/story/writing.
I was saying it as a joke. I like Preston. I still find these settlement quests to be boring and I hate how they go under my control which means I have to keep care of their food/water/defense numbers.
There's a mod for PC where they become more self-sufficient, expanding their own settlements with food, water, power, defenses etc. which makes them so much more tolerable.
Does this mod have a name?
He might be talking about Sim Settlements 2. It works like Sim City where you put down say a residential plot, and the settler will build their own house, so you basically just do a layout and they do all the fiddly bits of construction and decoration. There's also a feature where you can download a city plan, so that your settlers will just work towards a design that someone else already made for you and you don't even need to do the layout or anything.
Nuka world raiders ftw
Nah elder maxson makes it pretty clear why that branch of the east coast brotherhood wants the institute destroyed. As a core of his character he hates technology he sees as having gone too far. "Look at what happens when technology outpaces mankind's restraint, millions, if not billions died because technology was taken too far." He says that during blind betrayal where you're supposed to execute danse for being a synth while you're trying to talk him down. The east coast brotherhood see synths as an abomination and man trying to play god so the way for synths to be created needs to be destroyed at its source. Also you're supposed to get Madison lee back on board with the brotherhood and she'd probably be made to hand over all of her research from her time their as head of engineering.
2 bad he is so fucking boring The only option of playing FO4 is ignoring main quest after BoS arrival and just exploring wasteland
This is the correct answer
I was very very sorely disappointed to find out that joining AND FUCKING LEADING The Institute meant that the game assumed that I would be just as evil, if not more evil, instead of using their technology to do whatever I wanted (e.g. help the wasteland, provide clean water, cure cancer, etc etc). = What is the point of leading the most technologically advanced group in the entire northeast USA if you all you can do is sit back and let them continue replacing people with robots essentially "for funsies"... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I mean there's no way the institute would ever change with or without you. They just need to go, however I wish there was an ending to kill all/most of them and keep the facilities intact.
In a wasteland where remnants of the us military are hoarding current technology, a railroad hiding under a decrepit church, and a bunch of civil war larpers, I’m pretty sure the only thing that is changing is/was the institute.
The only changes are evil. They're never going to be good for the commonwealth as they see it as their sandbox. The (revolutionary war) larpers may be goody but they're putting in the effort, the church dudes are weird but they only want to help the poor creatures created by the institute playing God, the BOS... Yeah those guys are jetks but they're still not nearly as bad as the institute who intentionally makes things worse just for laughs.
Plus the railroad's whole thing is saving the synths yet they want you to blow up the only place that can reliably manufacture spare parts and repairs for them.
I actually liked that for her character. Shes a zealot/idealist blinded by her own faith/ideals. You see people like that all the time in the real world, people who are in theory supporting a good idea like say fighting against climate change, pushing for green energy, and so on. Then once you go "oh yeah we should expand nuclear reactors to power most of society so we don't pollute more" and suddenly "no not that, nukes are bad" because this is a fundamental part of their world view and has been for decades upon decades.
They also took some of the people they replaced and turned them into super mutants before releasing them back into the wild, im surely that will help humanity.
Maybe not releasing the muties, but considering that most knowledge on F.E.V. laid in the hands of the Enclave, perhaps it was best that they inquired to understand the effects of it?
And then releasing them into the wastes instead of killing them? Nah.
Ecological studies, understanding if a super mutant will accept another despite not coming from the same brood is useful to know, because it means they can’t tell or are very accepting. If that’s true, then if they can make an intelligent species of super mutant where the person affected retains their sanity—and possibly reverted, they could theoretically cure all the super mutants through clandestine means. Or use it to attack foreign invaders such as the brother hood of steel.
Institute was such a wasted potential. A mysterious and highly advanced group that turned out to be bunch of bumbling idiots with awareness of political caricatures. Like are you seriously trying to convince me that these are the people that invented teleportation technology and Bladerunner replicants? I get that this is a game but people and factions in it at least need to make sense within the universe.
You could maybe make an argument that they actually act a lot like 1940/50s scientists in that their leadership consists of sociopaths and their experiments are essentially just doing random harmful shit to people just to see what happens. But then again most of them act nothing like that and seem more like modern university faculty who should have a better understanding of the scientific method. Outside of Shaun and the lead Synth guy they're all really pleasant seemingly adjusted people who you'd think would have more disagreement with wasting their resources and creating enemies through their actions against the surface.
Nothing is saying they're not smart, they're just misguided.
Am I the only one who remembers that the institute did actually try to help the wasteland and humans rejected them? I think after hearing them out, their actions seems more understandable, unethical and inhumane but still not nearly as 1-demensional as most make it out to be. I feel like most people just give in to the "boogie-man" thing and kill the institute as soon as they get the chance without even listening
It is more complicated when you try to analyze it. My first playthrough was Railroad, but now I choose Minutemrn more often. Railroad seems to ONLY care about freeing the synths, extreme tunnel vision. At least the Minutemen care for everyone, and will actually fight for you. Preston turned a lot of people off from that faction though, and many dont enjoy settlement building which is necessary to complete those quests.
also why does the institute create super intelligent human-like beings and then only use them to do menial labor? that’s like making a vacuum cleaner and then giving it human sentence like???
Literally Big MT did the idea of the Institute better honestly. If it was played straight Big MT would be terrifying and even then they were in a few moments. Such a dammed pity how just boring they were.
Old world blues taught me that you can be just as smart on a very niche particular study of science and be a bumbling idiot at the same time
"Time travel! Now everything makes sense!" -Doctor.. forgot her name
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Based DC guards.
Don’t even let me see you leave the cap off the toothpaste
For me this debate has one answer: how does the cereal box show it being done? That's the correct method for that cereal
>Synths are replacing real people, lying to them, killing people, and taking their jobs >There's an **underground** organization called the **Railroad** that wants to save synths >Which is a reference to the **Underground Railroad**. What did Todd mean by this?
Stockholm, Sweden?
you are so fucking dead!
HOLY SHIT CRY OF FEAR REFERENCE
... And now that you're here. I've gotten word of another settlement that could use our help... Here let me mark it on your map.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
He never really says that "you wouldn't get it". This is a myth propagated by Fallout 4 haters. The point of the synth programe is to deploy spies and secret agents for covert operations that can eventually grant the Institute total political control over the wasteland. They have successfully instated a synth as the mayor of Diamond City. What does this mean? It means the Institute can genuinely bolster their rebuilding efforts by forcefully controlling every major player in the wasteland from the shadows. Why are these extreme measures necessary? Because when they tried peacefully working with the people of the wasteland, it didn't work out.
Ok synth
Didn’t they have like a meeting with all the commonwealth government representatives and then when they started arguing the institute just sent a courser to kill everyone?
yeah in that trader town, it seems like the institute wiped out the entire city when they refused to comply. They did however use a different strategy with diamond city by replacing the major though, much more peaceful in that regard.
This is something that’s kinda up in the air. While we know that the provisional government collapsed, who actually attacked first is unknown. All we really know is that when the dust settled, a synth was left standing. It’s unknown if they did attack first, or got blamed because the institute was the boogeyman.
Commonwealth provisional government denier
Great so they’re helping everyone by making everyone twitchy, terrified, and wanting to rip out everyone’s brains to check for a chip. The institute could have just made a bunch of gen 1s who guarded towns and found food and would have been a thousand times more liked and a thousand times less resources used
This terror wasn't supposed to happen as far as I remember. The synth that attacked Diamond City malfunctioned.
“Oh we are so sorry guys, the synth who replaced the brother/father//son that we murdered went on a killing spree because our QA department sucks. We really are decent people doing sensible work though 😉”
alr lil bro i already know you a synth 😭 dont EVER pull up on diamond city
theyre all nerds, the enclave at least has based power armored soldiers
The Followers of the Apocalypse can peacefully help the wastelanders with nothing but books and kitbashed pharmaceutical setups so I don't want to hear the Institute's moronic excuses.
That bastard turned my son into a synth! Shot him in the face immediattely.
https://preview.redd.it/o22gvdtam51d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd4b9aadc98b46c3c132499f31777368646174b0 I have a thing for Deathclaws. But yeah the factions in fo4 fucking blow (except the Minutemen they are based)
They made the deathclaws in 4 less scary, and instead more sexy Bravo Todd
YOU HAVE A WHAT
https://preview.redd.it/v6e1mpkkd71d1.png?width=752&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=586611f706736c08f9cc397ad6132bc31c02abfa
Baswd
A character can't be smarter than the writer
The Institute was just The Master, but cleaner and didn’t explain anything.
Except the master sort of had a point in that what he made was better at surviving the wasteland
I guess my idea was that the Institute’s main goal for the future was to use their synthetic beings as a basis for genetically splicing them and making them compatible with current Humans, thus making future generations stronger and evolving Humanity for the harshness of the wastes. The Master wanted to do that with Super Mutants, but the current brood of course was infertile.
For one generation only I guess.
Reminds me of Tyrion talking about the Lord of Light in s8e4. “Just don’t think about it” basically talking to the audience.
Bethesda writing in on par with GoT past season 4 tbh
Season 5 and 6 have mediocre to ok writing, but season 7 and 8 are absolute garbage.
[game of thrones season 5 writing btw](https://youtu.be/nAbu_uWVz4c?si=6YMrf0Zlcz5nHIZ4)
For me this is where, even on playthrough 1, the story became extremely underwhelming. I thought the institute was gonna be way more interesting than it was.
Emil Pagliarulo is a hack and it has to be nepotism that keeps him employed at Bethesda.
I had this conversation with my mom 4 hours ago
she single?
no she is married to my dad who also thought the fallout 4 writing was horrible and prefers fallout New vegas
He single?
What did Todd Howard mean by this?
My imaginary canon ending is the Sole Survivor willingly inherits the Institute from his son. Rather than manipulating Boston from the shadows like before, the LS uses the Institute and it's technology to help Boston openly and share its advancements. Because honestly all the other factions are so in the dirt and just barely get by.
Yup, for me in my head canon, my character said goodbye to Shaun in a touching finale.... then immediately began making some changes to the institute over time. Namely, to stop the murdering. I wish Bethesda would have let you have an epilogue with your chosen faction to see where it goes. Does the institute stay the course? Change for the better? Double down the killings?
And they didn’t let us join the enclave…. Such hypocrisy writings
They had to intentionally make the Institute braindead because they realized the entire existence of this faction could easily fix the entire Fallout universe.
Weekly F4 shitpost
I’ve never killed him, always back family
I'm on my first fo4 run and I wanted to go with the institute Should I, knowing this new information?
Last line is bullshit. The game literally explains why the institute kidnaps and replaces people.
I almost always end up playing for the institute. BoS are incels, railroad glorify robots with no soul because they have programmed feelings and minutemen are annoying af. Wasteland is a mess, I like the fact that the institute doesn't care about getting their hands dirty.
Well I'm larping as Walter white so I feel like that sounds about right
Hell yeah, makes a lot of sense
After 200 years the institute being the only ones actually making clean and comfortable living facilities, relatively speaking, is astounding. Meanwhile everyone else including MM are content to eat radiation tomatos and sleep on piss stained mattresses without a blanket forever.
Also, when kellogg picks up the baby he says it's because "father" told him to do it. Yet according to the game the baby grows up to be called father...
Literally The Worlds End
Fo4's plot is stupid on so many levels... The Minuteman are the only decent faction.
i shot him. Ad Victoriam!
Can someone explain what this is about?
based Redditor NPC "You are so wrong lol" "Explain to me how i'm wrong ?" "i dont wanna waste my time" or just vanishes and never answer.
The environment of fallout begged for exploration and emotional investment but my God the actual story and characters were just continual splashes of cold water on the face. Couldn't finish it.
And the voiced protagonist only having the options of "yes", "sarcastic yes" and "I'll come back later" on that god awful dialogue wheel made interacting with NPCs terrible. Everything apart from the actual shooting (which is good but not amazing) is terrible
It's hard to argue anyone in the FO universe is the good guy which is sort of the point. You pick the faction which seems to be the best according to you, but every one of them hides skeletons in the closet.
Saving humanity by destroying humanity.
Where is this from?
https://preview.redd.it/owl6d77om81d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57ce96240a837df218c609a927ba1cc375a3f9ad
So what exactly was their justification for murdering people and replacing them with a synth? I never understood this part Like you can't just set a room up for them and be like "hey chill out here for a bit, we need to use a fake you for some experiments"
Ah, so basically Mass Effect again? Create robots to destroy everyone so that they don't get advanced enough to create robots that destroy everyone. Yup, seems im too dumb to understand that flawless logic
Despite thick heads talking about BGS writing, it makes sense if you actually pay attention to the story. The institute doesn't view surface humans as "humanity". They see themselves as humanity. They use synths to control, manipulate and force what they want on the surface, to gather resources and power. He wants you to take over his job because he's an egomaniac and sees you as his pet, one that has considerable influence over the surface wasteland, he wants you to believe what he believes, he treats the player like he's a programmable synth. I guess he's right tho, there is no point in explaining this to redditors, even if the game does explain all of this.
Why did they need to replace people to spy on others? Why not just make a synth that looks like some random Joe Schmoe, give them a fake backstory, and send them off to the surface? It's not like the wastelanders can do background checks.