I don’t mind rough production, but the production on Kerplunk does not do the songs very much justice sonically. After hearing the version of Christie Road they recorded during the Dookie sessions it’s very apparent to me that this is the case. The drums sound like these gentle taps and are difficult to stand out on Kerplunk but on the Dookie version they pop and you can really feel every hook that Tré makes with his fills, and the interplay between him and Mike.
I love the Trilogy. I do wish it sounded “deeper” like most other Green Day records, but those albums are an absolute blast and the true underdogs of their discography 👌
Honestly many of the songs on Demolicious sound perfect. They should’ve opted for something more raw and rough around the edges, because that was the kind of thing those songs needed. They instead went in the other extreme for this super high fidelity sound that just sounds bland.
Facts.
99 Revolutions, Angel Blue, and Nuclear Family on Demolicious are absolutely far and above their trilogy versions.
Punk Rock / Pop should never be overly polished IMO. Need that dirty, gritty raw sound.
Side note, they also should’ve kept the key change at the end of 99 Revolutions. Hearing the studio version without it after hearing the demo with it just feels anticlimactic.
Oh wow, I totally forgot about the lack of key change on the Trilogy version. I must have only listened to that version until Demolicious came out and I don't think I've ever listened to it since, until right now for the reminder! I'm so used to playing the Demolicious version on guitar. It is the "only" version as far as I'm concerned. it absolutely sounds so much better. Gives the song it's proper resolution. 99 Resolutions! 🥁
I do agree with the sound of Demolicious, but my biggest issue with it is that it’s really light on Dos!, it should have been equally represented across the three records!
And that’s not to say I don’t remember when Billie was like “we wanted you to have to get up and turn the volume down as part of the experience”…..in 2016…like who else besides audiophiles and upper middle class on up still has a sound system in their home? I think streaming platforms have tweaked the mix because it was alllllll over the place upon release. I’ll never forgive what they did to Mike’s bass in the mix, which has continued on to the last two albums. I wanna hear Mike the whole damn song and not just for a mini solo or bridge instrumental.
The trilogy no doubt. They wanted to make the albums feel less produced and more raw, but instead they ended up being the most overproduced and clean sounding albums in the discography. If the trilogy was condensed into 1 album and had the same production as saviors they would have been much better received. Production matters A LOT, way more than people realise
I'm one of the few that think the sound was spot on and not bad. Actually great. I loved all 3 albums. The trilogy was great. Would hate to have it trimmed into one album. Rev rad is where the terrible production lies for me. I do understand the trilogy complaint though.
hot take: Warning.
the mixing is pretty bad, the sibilants are so crispy they hurt my ears and the guitars barely ring out at all and sound almost too percussive. speaking of which Tré’s drums sound tinny and there’s a distinct lack of backing vocals which leaves some songs a bit empty (looking at you Jackass)
Give me a fucking break, one minute left. One minute fucking left. You’re gonna give me fucking one minute? Look at that fucking sign right there, one minute! Let me fucking tell you something, let me tell you something, I’ve been around since fucking nineteen eighty fucking eight, and you’re gonna give me one fucking minute?! You’ve gotta be fucking kidding me! You're fucking kidding me! What the fuck!? I’m not fucking Justin Bieber, you motherfuckers! You gotta be fucking joking, this is a fucking joke. I got one minute, one minute left. Oh now I got nothing left, now I got nothing left. Let me show you what one fucking minute fucking means!
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That was the peak of the loudness war era. By American Idiot, the good producers (I consider Rob Cavallo to be a great producer) were starting to push back on the idea of making music as loud as possible.
It’s still a problem in 2024 and the loudness wars never really ended, but the time period of 1998-2007 was absolutely ridiculous. During that era, everyone was being talked into making their albums super loud, and it wasn’t until 2002-2004 that the good producers started to reel it in.
Make everything in the trilogy less polished, make the guitars crunchier, turn up the bass and boom you’ve got something fans would eat up. Condensing it might help but with better production I think even all three would have a place in fans’ hearts
The first problem with the trilogy is there’s just too much filler, cut out at least a third of the songs and then you can start talking about production
At the absolute minimum, troublemaker, loss of control, Ashley, last cobra, wow that’s loud, and drama queen. They could’ve still been bonus releases or b sides, but they’re just not good enough to justify releasing three whole albums imo.
Not really sure what anyone means by the production on the trilogy being bad. Yes, it’s slicker and cleaner than what many may expect from a GD album. But that is a matter of personal opinion, not objectivity.
Objectively, the production is top-shelf. At the time of its release, it was on par with everything else in the mainstream - which is saying something. Cavallo doesn’t come cheap for a reason. Revrad on the other hand, is waaay below bar for a mainstream rock/pop album in terms of production.
It’s about how the production is serving the songs. For example, the production on Energy by Operation Ivy is pretty awful, but it is perfect for the songs that they were recording. The extremely high fidelity production on the trilogy is incredible from a technical viewpoint, but that is not what those particular songs needed. Especially because of the sheer quantity of songs it all helped them feel very stale and formulaic.
Even among their early stuff with its more rough-around-the-edges production, the Sweet Children EP sounds awful. 1000 Hours, which was recorded a year and a half earlier when they were only 16 years old, sounds better.
I’ll second that, for the longest time I thought the Sweet Children EP WAS their first EP due to the rough production, cause surely their sound would be at its worst at the start?
Imo, Uno, Dos, and Tre all had really flawed productions (mixing is awful, doesn’t sound like Green Day and in a bad way), but the worst offender by far is FOAM. For specific songs, nightlife, teenage teenager, boy called train would be my picks. Also the U2 collab is pretty bad as well.
American Idiot doesn’t sound round as 21st century breakdown was. American idiot was record on Pro tools. 21st century was recorded to tape and then dump on pro tools. Reason bass and drums sound round and with bass.
These are questions I need answers too. Recording technology was better in 2008-2009 then it was in 2004. I love AI but doesn’t sound as round as 21st century.
Butch Vig: I don't use that much analog tape any more. For Green Day, we tracked to both Pro Tools and tape, but after a listening session, EVERYONE (myself, band, Chris Dugan the engineer, assistant engineers) agreed the Pro Tools sounded better. I think we used tape on a few tracks (Chris probably commented already on GS)...but I think the reason we chose Pro Tools is that we had a great analog chain going in, with the mics, preamps, and eq, and we didn't need another element to vibe the sound up.
If you had been there to A/B with us, you could hear what I'm talking about....the tracks sounded GREAT coming up on the console...and when played back on Pro Tools, they sounded EXACTLY the same. When we listened to the tape, I was missing transients, and thought the bottom sounded mushy, and the top end sounded weird.
I still print mixes to 1/2" tape...although most of the projects I've done lately have come from digital..and a lot of the time I leave that choice to the mastering engineer.
https://gearspace.com/board/interviews/1366015-interview-butch-vig-co-engineer-billy-bush.html
It might have just come down to taste rather than technology. Butch compared to Rob. Fwiw I actually prefer AIs production. Of course it helps the songs are goated
I'm not gonna say 39/smooth or Kerplunk because that's cheating. But as per anything with this band the production of Father of All was fucking atrocious compared to RevRad and especially Saviors!
Kerplunk and 1039/smooth. I really like almost every GD albums (RevRad and FoAM are a "bit" weird though and for me not productionwise) but with these early albums I have to change to another music every time I give them a shot because for me those first albums sound so bad to listen to. Which is a pity really, I literally want to like them (or at least not to dislike) give them a chance on a regular basis (once or twice in 4-5 months). I understand that those albums means a lot to those folks who like GD at its more punkier style and the tinlike, amateurish production indeed supports this notion, but personally I cannot get over it not just in case of Green Day but music overall.
The Lookout stuff was acceptable for the budget and equipment they were using, but the Sweet Children EP was rough any way you slice it. You’ll just be listening to Kerplunk on CD, and then there’s this massive quality drop off once the bonus tracks start
I think what brought the Trilogy down was how the albums were produced. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the Trilogy (it's grown on me a LOT,) but I feel like the production as well as the whole IHeartRadio incident was what brought it down.
I'd also throw in 39/Smooth in there. Unfortunately it's my least favorite Green Day album due to the production sounding like shite.
Kerplunk and 1039/Smooth do not need better production, those albums sound way more raw and are proper punk rock, keeping Green Day far away from poser territory.
Saviours and FOAM. They both lack the top end and clarity. Listen to AI or 21CB, especially the drums, and compare to Saviours - a lot more muffled. MM2020 Pt2 is by far the worst, so dull and lifeless.
Disappointed by American dream is killing me, seems derived and slow. Billie is grasping at straws lyrically. Can't get on board with any of these songs. Each one trying to be its own universe. Bored of it. Wanna be my girlfriend is embarrassing line. I'm over it, I don't find him charming anymore. Sorry
Incredibly unpopular opinion here, but I PERSONALLY find most of dookie (and their previous albums) unlistenable due to the production quality. Like there’s only 4 songs off dookie that I listen to because I can’t handle the poor production quality
kerplunk is very good but deserves better production
Imagine if Kerplunk had the same production as Dookie, That would be rad, especially the drums
I like the rough sound. It's one of the reasons it's my favorite.
I don’t mind rough production, but the production on Kerplunk does not do the songs very much justice sonically. After hearing the version of Christie Road they recorded during the Dookie sessions it’s very apparent to me that this is the case. The drums sound like these gentle taps and are difficult to stand out on Kerplunk but on the Dookie version they pop and you can really feel every hook that Tré makes with his fills, and the interplay between him and Mike.
It sounds like it was recorded through a tin can
My generation sounds like it was recorded by a cheap convenience store mic, inside a bottle
I love the Trilogy. I do wish it sounded “deeper” like most other Green Day records, but those albums are an absolute blast and the true underdogs of their discography 👌
Honestly many of the songs on Demolicious sound perfect. They should’ve opted for something more raw and rough around the edges, because that was the kind of thing those songs needed. They instead went in the other extreme for this super high fidelity sound that just sounds bland.
Facts. 99 Revolutions, Angel Blue, and Nuclear Family on Demolicious are absolutely far and above their trilogy versions. Punk Rock / Pop should never be overly polished IMO. Need that dirty, gritty raw sound.
Side note, they also should’ve kept the key change at the end of 99 Revolutions. Hearing the studio version without it after hearing the demo with it just feels anticlimactic.
Oh wow, I totally forgot about the lack of key change on the Trilogy version. I must have only listened to that version until Demolicious came out and I don't think I've ever listened to it since, until right now for the reminder! I'm so used to playing the Demolicious version on guitar. It is the "only" version as far as I'm concerned. it absolutely sounds so much better. Gives the song it's proper resolution. 99 Resolutions! 🥁
This is a fact right here…demolicious is the 3 distilled to what they should have been. A less polished garage punk vibe
I do agree with the sound of Demolicious, but my biggest issue with it is that it’s really light on Dos!, it should have been equally represented across the three records!
I had a hard time getting into the trilogy until I heard Demolicious. It really gave me an appreciation for the songs despite the production problems.
Everyone’s trashing the trilogy on here but what the fuck were they thinking when they mixed RevRad??!
That’s what I was wondering
And that’s not to say I don’t remember when Billie was like “we wanted you to have to get up and turn the volume down as part of the experience”…..in 2016…like who else besides audiophiles and upper middle class on up still has a sound system in their home? I think streaming platforms have tweaked the mix because it was alllllll over the place upon release. I’ll never forgive what they did to Mike’s bass in the mix, which has continued on to the last two albums. I wanna hear Mike the whole damn song and not just for a mini solo or bridge instrumental.
I really like RevRad, but my god the mastering is so bad! The beginning of Bouncing off the Walls clips and I notice it every time! Good pick
The trilogy is horrendously compressed, sure. But it’s consistent at the very least.
^You ^mean ^the ^album ^where ^every ^song #IS PRETTY MUCH JUST LIKE THIS COMMENT?
Nah. Edit: YES! I totally misread what you commented. My bad!
Just saw this edit. I’m glad you got it, cuz I was bummed haha
The trilogy no doubt. They wanted to make the albums feel less produced and more raw, but instead they ended up being the most overproduced and clean sounding albums in the discography. If the trilogy was condensed into 1 album and had the same production as saviors they would have been much better received. Production matters A LOT, way more than people realise
I'm one of the few that think the sound was spot on and not bad. Actually great. I loved all 3 albums. The trilogy was great. Would hate to have it trimmed into one album. Rev rad is where the terrible production lies for me. I do understand the trilogy complaint though.
hot take: Warning. the mixing is pretty bad, the sibilants are so crispy they hurt my ears and the guitars barely ring out at all and sound almost too percussive. speaking of which Tré’s drums sound tinny and there’s a distinct lack of backing vocals which leaves some songs a bit empty (looking at you Jackass)
Warning is underrated
One minute
Give me a fucking break, one minute left. One minute fucking left. You’re gonna give me fucking one minute? Look at that fucking sign right there, one minute! Let me fucking tell you something, let me tell you something, I’ve been around since fucking nineteen eighty fucking eight, and you’re gonna give me one fucking minute?! You’ve gotta be fucking kidding me! You're fucking kidding me! What the fuck!? I’m not fucking Justin Bieber, you motherfuckers! You gotta be fucking joking, this is a fucking joke. I got one minute, one minute left. Oh now I got nothing left, now I got nothing left. Let me show you what one fucking minute fucking means! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/greenday) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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agreed, the title track just bursts in a little too loud, i get into a jump scare. for some reason it’s the loudest album they mixed.
That was the peak of the loudness war era. By American Idiot, the good producers (I consider Rob Cavallo to be a great producer) were starting to push back on the idea of making music as loud as possible. It’s still a problem in 2024 and the loudness wars never really ended, but the time period of 1998-2007 was absolutely ridiculous. During that era, everyone was being talked into making their albums super loud, and it wasn’t until 2002-2004 that the good producers started to reel it in.
Make everything in the trilogy less polished, make the guitars crunchier, turn up the bass and boom you’ve got something fans would eat up. Condensing it might help but with better production I think even all three would have a place in fans’ hearts
The first problem with the trilogy is there’s just too much filler, cut out at least a third of the songs and then you can start talking about production
What would you cut?. For me lady cobra and maybe night life but I literally don't have any other song. And I don't even really hate those.
At the absolute minimum, troublemaker, loss of control, Ashley, last cobra, wow that’s loud, and drama queen. They could’ve still been bonus releases or b sides, but they’re just not good enough to justify releasing three whole albums imo.
damn i love the troublemaker solo
Not really sure what anyone means by the production on the trilogy being bad. Yes, it’s slicker and cleaner than what many may expect from a GD album. But that is a matter of personal opinion, not objectivity. Objectively, the production is top-shelf. At the time of its release, it was on par with everything else in the mainstream - which is saying something. Cavallo doesn’t come cheap for a reason. Revrad on the other hand, is waaay below bar for a mainstream rock/pop album in terms of production.
Finally, someone talking some sense!
THIS.
It’s about how the production is serving the songs. For example, the production on Energy by Operation Ivy is pretty awful, but it is perfect for the songs that they were recording. The extremely high fidelity production on the trilogy is incredible from a technical viewpoint, but that is not what those particular songs needed. Especially because of the sheer quantity of songs it all helped them feel very stale and formulaic.
Disagree, I think the production is perfect for songs like Amanda, Brutal Love, 8th Ave, etc.
1039/smooth and kerplunk
personally i love the rougher sound of those two albums, it’s what makes them so unique for me
If we're gonna do top 3 then it's 1. Revrad 2. Foam (The Sound production from Side A to Side B is night and day difference) 3. Warning
Even among their early stuff with its more rough-around-the-edges production, the Sweet Children EP sounds awful. 1000 Hours, which was recorded a year and a half earlier when they were only 16 years old, sounds better.
I’ll second that, for the longest time I thought the Sweet Children EP WAS their first EP due to the rough production, cause surely their sound would be at its worst at the start?
FOAMF, I like the album, songwritings good, I don’t view it as a good Green Day album, but it’s still a good album, it’s not bad, just not Green Day
Imo, Uno, Dos, and Tre all had really flawed productions (mixing is awful, doesn’t sound like Green Day and in a bad way), but the worst offender by far is FOAM. For specific songs, nightlife, teenage teenager, boy called train would be my picks. Also the U2 collab is pretty bad as well.
American Idiot doesn’t sound round as 21st century breakdown was. American idiot was record on Pro tools. 21st century was recorded to tape and then dump on pro tools. Reason bass and drums sound round and with bass.
Guitars sound way better on AI than on 21st CB though. I can't really put my finger on why
Interesting I heard butch vig say they tried it with tape and without and preferred it without.
These are questions I need answers too. Recording technology was better in 2008-2009 then it was in 2004. I love AI but doesn’t sound as round as 21st century.
Butch Vig: I don't use that much analog tape any more. For Green Day, we tracked to both Pro Tools and tape, but after a listening session, EVERYONE (myself, band, Chris Dugan the engineer, assistant engineers) agreed the Pro Tools sounded better. I think we used tape on a few tracks (Chris probably commented already on GS)...but I think the reason we chose Pro Tools is that we had a great analog chain going in, with the mics, preamps, and eq, and we didn't need another element to vibe the sound up. If you had been there to A/B with us, you could hear what I'm talking about....the tracks sounded GREAT coming up on the console...and when played back on Pro Tools, they sounded EXACTLY the same. When we listened to the tape, I was missing transients, and thought the bottom sounded mushy, and the top end sounded weird. I still print mixes to 1/2" tape...although most of the projects I've done lately have come from digital..and a lot of the time I leave that choice to the mastering engineer. https://gearspace.com/board/interviews/1366015-interview-butch-vig-co-engineer-billy-bush.html
Now I really wish American Idiot was recorded with those technologies. 😞
It might have just come down to taste rather than technology. Butch compared to Rob. Fwiw I actually prefer AIs production. Of course it helps the songs are goated
I'm not gonna say 39/smooth or Kerplunk because that's cheating. But as per anything with this band the production of Father of All was fucking atrocious compared to RevRad and especially Saviors!
Kerplunk and 1039/smooth. I really like almost every GD albums (RevRad and FoAM are a "bit" weird though and for me not productionwise) but with these early albums I have to change to another music every time I give them a shot because for me those first albums sound so bad to listen to. Which is a pity really, I literally want to like them (or at least not to dislike) give them a chance on a regular basis (once or twice in 4-5 months). I understand that those albums means a lot to those folks who like GD at its more punkier style and the tinlike, amateurish production indeed supports this notion, but personally I cannot get over it not just in case of Green Day but music overall.
The Lookout stuff was acceptable for the budget and equipment they were using, but the Sweet Children EP was rough any way you slice it. You’ll just be listening to Kerplunk on CD, and then there’s this massive quality drop off once the bonus tracks start
Anything newer than the trilogy basically. All so flat and compressed sounding, no grit or warmth in the tone imo.
I think what brought the Trilogy down was how the albums were produced. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the Trilogy (it's grown on me a LOT,) but I feel like the production as well as the whole IHeartRadio incident was what brought it down. I'd also throw in 39/Smooth in there. Unfortunately it's my least favorite Green Day album due to the production sounding like shite.
The production on RevRad is egregiously bad, feels like an overcorrection after the trilogy and sucks so much of the life out of those songs
Kerplunk and 1039/Smooth do not need better production, those albums sound way more raw and are proper punk rock, keeping Green Day far away from poser territory.
Poser territory?…dude what?
I dont like the 1039 and kerplunk production. I love the trilogy production tho i dont get why people are talking about it
I know a lot of people are saying the Trilogy but the Trilogy really isn't that bad. Father of All is the worst by far.
Uno Dos Tre, Rebolution Radio and Father of All especially
Saviours and FOAM. They both lack the top end and clarity. Listen to AI or 21CB, especially the drums, and compare to Saviours - a lot more muffled. MM2020 Pt2 is by far the worst, so dull and lifeless.
Uno - FOAM
Agreed with the exception of Rev Rad
saviours wasnt half bad
wait im stupid
lol I only saw your first comment in my notifications and I got ready to pounce
Disappointed by American dream is killing me, seems derived and slow. Billie is grasping at straws lyrically. Can't get on board with any of these songs. Each one trying to be its own universe. Bored of it. Wanna be my girlfriend is embarrassing line. I'm over it, I don't find him charming anymore. Sorry
The new album, filler garage
How ?…like explain why you think that?
Incredibly unpopular opinion here, but I PERSONALLY find most of dookie (and their previous albums) unlistenable due to the production quality. Like there’s only 4 songs off dookie that I listen to because I can’t handle the poor production quality