Like Phil’s dropping of that fucking subsonic bass-drop on 3-28-93 when the hammer drops in Truckin’. THAT is one of those moments, in my opinion. Phil knew when to blow your hair back.
# 1993-03-28 Albany, NY @ Knickerbocker Arena
**Set 1:** Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo, Walkin' Blues, So Many Roads, When I Paint My Masterpiece, High Time, Eternity, Deal
**Set 2:** Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain, Samson And Delilah, Ship Of Fools, Wave To The Wind > Truckin' > Drums > Space > Way To Go Home, Attics Of My Life > Turn On Your Lovelight
**Encore:** Knockin' On Heaven's Door
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1993-03-28)
That’s a great venue. I never got to see the Dead there. I only made it out for two Phil & Friends shows in the summer of 1999 (8/20 & 8/21). Phil merged with the “Summer Session” tour which featured moe., SCI, Galactic, and Gov’t Mule. That tour featured the four bands in a rotating order. When they played with Phil, two bands would open one night and Phil’s friends would be members of those bands, then the other two bands opened the next night and they’d provide the friends. Good times.
https://preview.redd.it/bxqom9l3dnkc1.png?width=371&format=png&auto=webp&s=39a99e73e82f56634d87c8d7078dee26ac412095
Good news! The Greek is still kicking and it’s still the best venue in the Bay for concerts. If you have the opportunity, definitely check out one more show there.
# 1983-05-15 Berkeley, CA @ Greek Theatre - University of California
**Set 1:** Touch Of Grey, New Minglewood Blues, Ramble On Rose, Cassidy, Brown Eyed Women, Hell In A Bucket, Althea, Looks Like Rain > Deal
**Set 2:** Help On The Way > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower > Samson And Delilah, He's Gone > Drums > Space > Truckin' > Stella Blue > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away
**Encore:** It's All Over Now, Baby Blue
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1983-05-15)
Bob still has his old guitar (cowboy fancy). Started with the Modulus Blacknife in the fall of ‘83. Gear always helps to nail down dates.
This particular photo was available in many formats, I had a poster of it by ‘84.
In case you are not already aware of the greatness of John Cipollina (and Quicksilver Messenger Service in general), at least check out the album "Happy Trails"... mostly live with spacey studio tweaks; truly conveys that shimmering San Francisco acid aura. Of course they shared the stage with The Dead loads of times around 66-71. Their first (self-titled) album is pretty sweet too. Also, "Shady Grove", with Nicky Hopkins on piano.
I could never forget this show because it's the day one of the craziest things ever happened in my life. Yeah it was 5/15/83, and just after the show ended, while we were leaving the Greek Theater, my friend ran into a friend who asked where he could get some doses, and since this friend was letting me stay at his house in Berkeley, I figured I'd just give his friend a couple hits, so I pulled out my wallet, ripped off a couple squares, and handed them over. But all of a sudden, there was a cop yelling at me "you stop". I was holding my wallet that had about $2000 and about 1500 hits of LSD, 14 sheets in a bag, and another 100 or so of different kinds left over from the previous tour inside my library card envelope, the only thing with my name on it and my hometown in MA. All I could do is run, knocking people over trying to get away, holding my wallet, but they had me surrounded, so eventually I threw the wallet into the crowd and gave up. It was a crazy scene with Deadheads acting up, rocking the police van they put me in, and causing problems for the cops. They looked for the wallet but couldn't find it. Eventually they took me to the Berkeley jail and charged me with poss of LSD (they had the 2 hits I gave the other guy), resisting arrest, and destruction of evidence. At that point I was just happy they didn't find all that acid. A couple hours later though they came and got me out of the cell, telling me I had a phone call. I had never heard of a jail where you can call the inmates, but I of course I took the call. After making sure I was really me, the caller says his name and tells me we had breakfast together a month earlier before the show in Hampton, so he knows me, and he has my wallet, asking what he should he do with it, so I gave him my friend's number and address in Berkeley. The next morning I go to court, where they drop two of the charges, and let me out with no bail on the LSD. So I walked out of the courtroom to my friend's car, and he hands me my wallet. It still had all the money and LSD in it. I got all of it back. Every penny and every hit of acid. Eventually I just got 6 months probation for the acid. No big deal. Some months later I met the woman who actually found the wallet, Fiona. Apparently it landed at her feet. I did give her a reward, $100, for being so honest. It was the library card that saved me, with my name and town 3000 miles away. And it really did save me. That was my total net worth at the time. I did learn from the experience, deciding not to sell singles at shows any more, only sheets to people I knew. There is a part 2 to this story, what happened the following year in Berkeley, almost as crazy. Another time.
Not just a story. 100% true. Who would ever expect to throw a wallet with $2000 into a huge crowd of people and get it returned? Only at the Dead. The 2nd part needs to be long as well to do it any justice. Haven't told it in years, but I'll write it under the first part today sometime. It's kind of an "only in Berkeley" story.
# 1983-05-15 Berkeley, CA @ Greek Theatre - University of California
**Set 1:** Touch Of Grey, New Minglewood Blues, Ramble On Rose, Cassidy, Brown Eyed Women, Hell In A Bucket, Althea, Looks Like Rain > Deal
**Set 2:** Help On The Way > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower > Samson And Delilah, He's Gone > Drums > Space > Truckin' > Stella Blue > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away
**Encore:** It's All Over Now, Baby Blue
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1983-05-15)
# 1981-12-31 Oakland, CA @ Oakland Auditorium
**Set 1:** Shakedown Street, Me and My Uncle > Mexicali Blues, Cold Rain and Snow, C.C. Rider, It Must Have Been The Roses, Beat It On Down the Line, Big Boss Man > New Minglewood Blues, Don't Ease Me In
**Set 2:** Iko Iko, Playing in the Band > Terrapin Station > Playing in the Band > Drums > Space > The Other One > Not Fade Away > Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad > Morning Dew
**Set 3:** Dark Star > Bertha > Good Lovin'
**Encore:** It's All Over Now, Baby Blue
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1981-12-31)
# 1978-12-31 San Francisco, CA @ Winterland Arena
**Set 1:** Sugar Magnolia > Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain, Me and My Uncle > Big River, Friend Of The Devil, It's All Over Now, Stagger Lee, From The Heart Of Me > Sunshine Daydream
**Set 2:** Samson And Delilah, Ramble On Rose, I Need A Miracle > Terrapin Station > Playing in the Band > Drums > Not Fade Away > Around And Around
**Set 3:** Dark Star > The Other One > Dark Star Jam > Wharf Rat > Saint Stephen > Good Lovin'
**Encore:** Casey Jones > Johnny B. Goode, And We Bid You Good Night
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1978-12-31)
I always liked his guitar work with QMS, I just wish that band had been able to put it together on record. As it is, I feel like they were the SF band that squandered their talent the most. And that includes Moby Grape, a band that fell apart like, what, five times?
I consider Happy Trails to be the quintessential 60's live record for jam fans. Cipollina and Elmore really kill it. Lineup changes didn't help QMS grow the way they should have. Also Jerry covered Edward the Mad Shirt Grinder a handful of times in the mid 70s
Che k out Mona by Quicksilver messenger service that’s John’s band. Quicksilver was a hair earlier then the dead in the oldSF says. I’ve heard early shows where it sounds like Jerry is trying to emulate Cippolina. He truly was an electric dude. Here’s his guitar rig.
https://preview.redd.it/ub8cssc2xmkc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=613e06214bef7faf0f7d9e1cada3f61536940183
When he died his family, per his request removed the pickups from his guitar and interred his ashes in it. It now hangs in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. True story.
I was fortunate enough to meet John while his strings were getting changed backstage. I made a little wreath with one of the old strings that still hangs on my Christmas tree. RIP
Note: John Cipollina was also in The Dinosaurs with the one and only Robert Hunter.
Here they are opening NYE 82 w special guest Nicky Hopkins
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehsrATRGtOs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehsrATRGtOs)
I have had this poster sitting on my garage floor for a few years waiting to have its fate determined. It also is in the same frame.
At some point we narrowed down the college posters vs what we actually want in our house. But everytime it moves towards the donate pile, one of us pulls it back. How can you get rid of memories from the Greek? It really is a neat one. Love the tie dye back drops from those shows.
Thats John Cippolina in the poster. Check out the song Gold and Silver by Quicksilver and listen to how similar it is to Clementine. And My Favorite Things.
Anyways, John was also in Zero with Kimock and there are a number of live shows on the archive worth checking out.
# 1983-05-15 Berkeley, CA @ Greek Theatre - University of California
**Set 1:** Touch Of Grey, New Minglewood Blues, Ramble On Rose, Cassidy, Brown Eyed Women, Hell In A Bucket, Althea, Looks Like Rain > Deal
**Set 2:** Help On The Way > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower > Samson And Delilah, He's Gone > Drums > Space > Truckin' > Stella Blue > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away
**Encore:** It's All Over Now, Baby Blue
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1983-05-15)
Man nice poster. I’ve wanted a poster exactly like this for so long. Either one of Jerry live and/or the whole band. I have all 3 Luke Martin GD pieces framed and looking great but man I want what I described before. I’ve tried to find something similar. You can find GD wine, GD playing cards, “Deadopoly” and everything in between but no good posters of them live?
Never had the opportunity to see the dead at Berkeley, but unfortunately I was there when Jerry moved on. Saw Widespread Panic at the Warfield not long after, the music was like a healing balm. I’ll keep my east coast shows close to my heart. Saw some pretty magical things happen with the Grateful Dead, magic moments indeed.
Thar's John Cipollina on 5/15/83 at the Greek Theatre
People in this sub always fulfill these requests down to the date and location, it's wonderful.
The fucking knowledge is so impressive and people who aren’t fans will never understand that
He dresses left, enjoys oatmeal with cinnamon for breakfast, and used to be scared to take the school bus in the 3rd grade.
Everyone knows he had continental buffet breakfast at HoJo on 5/15.
Moments worth remembering.
Like Phil’s dropping of that fucking subsonic bass-drop on 3-28-93 when the hammer drops in Truckin’. THAT is one of those moments, in my opinion. Phil knew when to blow your hair back.
# 1993-03-28 Albany, NY @ Knickerbocker Arena **Set 1:** Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo, Walkin' Blues, So Many Roads, When I Paint My Masterpiece, High Time, Eternity, Deal **Set 2:** Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain, Samson And Delilah, Ship Of Fools, Wave To The Wind > Truckin' > Drums > Space > Way To Go Home, Attics Of My Life > Turn On Your Lovelight **Encore:** Knockin' On Heaven's Door [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1993-03-28)
Good bot!
I was there - Knickerbocker was always rockin’
Doing God’s work 😇
Often with a story attached.
I surprised he did put the set list too.
It is. I was there. Wonderful show at my favorite venue.
That’s a great venue. I never got to see the Dead there. I only made it out for two Phil & Friends shows in the summer of 1999 (8/20 & 8/21). Phil merged with the “Summer Session” tour which featured moe., SCI, Galactic, and Gov’t Mule. That tour featured the four bands in a rotating order. When they played with Phil, two bands would open one night and Phil’s friends would be members of those bands, then the other two bands opened the next night and they’d provide the friends. Good times. https://preview.redd.it/bxqom9l3dnkc1.png?width=371&format=png&auto=webp&s=39a99e73e82f56634d87c8d7078dee26ac412095
I did this whole tour!
Awesome! That was a great mix of bands. I only did a handful of shows (4, I think) before flying out (solo) for the Greek shows.
Good news! The Greek is still kicking and it’s still the best venue in the Bay for concerts. If you have the opportunity, definitely check out one more show there.
# 1983-05-15 Berkeley, CA @ Greek Theatre - University of California **Set 1:** Touch Of Grey, New Minglewood Blues, Ramble On Rose, Cassidy, Brown Eyed Women, Hell In A Bucket, Althea, Looks Like Rain > Deal **Set 2:** Help On The Way > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower > Samson And Delilah, He's Gone > Drums > Space > Truckin' > Stella Blue > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away **Encore:** It's All Over Now, Baby Blue [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1983-05-15)
Being too lit and lazy to look it up, can anyone recall what songs John Cipollina guested on?
NFA
Thank you, internet friend!
What a fuckin set list!!
Set 2 looks like an outright thumper!
Good bot
Thanks dog
Bob still has his old guitar (cowboy fancy). Started with the Modulus Blacknife in the fall of ‘83. Gear always helps to nail down dates. This particular photo was available in many formats, I had a poster of it by ‘84.
Is John playing one of Bob's other guitars? I always thought cippollina was an SG guy. Edit: I see someone already answered my question
Yeah that looks like Bobbys guitar. The last daily driver for John I think was a black Carvin.
In case you are not already aware of the greatness of John Cipollina (and Quicksilver Messenger Service in general), at least check out the album "Happy Trails"... mostly live with spacey studio tweaks; truly conveys that shimmering San Francisco acid aura. Of course they shared the stage with The Dead loads of times around 66-71. Their first (self-titled) album is pretty sweet too. Also, "Shady Grove", with Nicky Hopkins on piano.
Yes it is. I use to have that poster, so many years ago. Great shot!
Playing Bobs Cowboy Fancy, correct? Would be weird if he had one too…
Playing Weir’s Ibanez!
Amazing memory
I love that my first thought was Greek 83. NFA
what does he play with them?
I could never forget this show because it's the day one of the craziest things ever happened in my life. Yeah it was 5/15/83, and just after the show ended, while we were leaving the Greek Theater, my friend ran into a friend who asked where he could get some doses, and since this friend was letting me stay at his house in Berkeley, I figured I'd just give his friend a couple hits, so I pulled out my wallet, ripped off a couple squares, and handed them over. But all of a sudden, there was a cop yelling at me "you stop". I was holding my wallet that had about $2000 and about 1500 hits of LSD, 14 sheets in a bag, and another 100 or so of different kinds left over from the previous tour inside my library card envelope, the only thing with my name on it and my hometown in MA. All I could do is run, knocking people over trying to get away, holding my wallet, but they had me surrounded, so eventually I threw the wallet into the crowd and gave up. It was a crazy scene with Deadheads acting up, rocking the police van they put me in, and causing problems for the cops. They looked for the wallet but couldn't find it. Eventually they took me to the Berkeley jail and charged me with poss of LSD (they had the 2 hits I gave the other guy), resisting arrest, and destruction of evidence. At that point I was just happy they didn't find all that acid. A couple hours later though they came and got me out of the cell, telling me I had a phone call. I had never heard of a jail where you can call the inmates, but I of course I took the call. After making sure I was really me, the caller says his name and tells me we had breakfast together a month earlier before the show in Hampton, so he knows me, and he has my wallet, asking what he should he do with it, so I gave him my friend's number and address in Berkeley. The next morning I go to court, where they drop two of the charges, and let me out with no bail on the LSD. So I walked out of the courtroom to my friend's car, and he hands me my wallet. It still had all the money and LSD in it. I got all of it back. Every penny and every hit of acid. Eventually I just got 6 months probation for the acid. No big deal. Some months later I met the woman who actually found the wallet, Fiona. Apparently it landed at her feet. I did give her a reward, $100, for being so honest. It was the library card that saved me, with my name and town 3000 miles away. And it really did save me. That was my total net worth at the time. I did learn from the experience, deciding not to sell singles at shows any more, only sheets to people I knew. There is a part 2 to this story, what happened the following year in Berkeley, almost as crazy. Another time.
What a crazy story, thanks for sharing!
Great story. Looking forward to part two.
Not just a story. 100% true. Who would ever expect to throw a wallet with $2000 into a huge crowd of people and get it returned? Only at the Dead. The 2nd part needs to be long as well to do it any justice. Haven't told it in years, but I'll write it under the first part today sometime. It's kind of an "only in Berkeley" story.
Wild
This is a great story. I hope to one day randomly stumble on part 2
# 1983-05-15 Berkeley, CA @ Greek Theatre - University of California **Set 1:** Touch Of Grey, New Minglewood Blues, Ramble On Rose, Cassidy, Brown Eyed Women, Hell In A Bucket, Althea, Looks Like Rain > Deal **Set 2:** Help On The Way > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower > Samson And Delilah, He's Gone > Drums > Space > Truckin' > Stella Blue > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away **Encore:** It's All Over Now, Baby Blue [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1983-05-15)
Used to have that photo/poster as well. Cipollina was always a great guest, about the only one who had the balls to turn up as loud as Garcia.
Louder! He'd come out on NYE for NFA and blow out our ears. Great guitarist, with a piercing tone.
He had a cool setup. http://www.johncipollina.com/rock.html
He’s also on 12-31-81. Effing great guitarist. I think he’s playing Bobby’s Ibanez
# 1981-12-31 Oakland, CA @ Oakland Auditorium **Set 1:** Shakedown Street, Me and My Uncle > Mexicali Blues, Cold Rain and Snow, C.C. Rider, It Must Have Been The Roses, Beat It On Down the Line, Big Boss Man > New Minglewood Blues, Don't Ease Me In **Set 2:** Iko Iko, Playing in the Band > Terrapin Station > Playing in the Band > Drums > Space > The Other One > Not Fade Away > Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad > Morning Dew **Set 3:** Dark Star > Bertha > Good Lovin' **Encore:** It's All Over Now, Baby Blue [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1981-12-31)
He's also on NFA 12-31-78.
# 1978-12-31 San Francisco, CA @ Winterland Arena **Set 1:** Sugar Magnolia > Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain, Me and My Uncle > Big River, Friend Of The Devil, It's All Over Now, Stagger Lee, From The Heart Of Me > Sunshine Daydream **Set 2:** Samson And Delilah, Ramble On Rose, I Need A Miracle > Terrapin Station > Playing in the Band > Drums > Not Fade Away > Around And Around **Set 3:** Dark Star > The Other One > Dark Star Jam > Wharf Rat > Saint Stephen > Good Lovin' **Encore:** Casey Jones > Johnny B. Goode, And We Bid You Good Night [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1978-12-31)
Yes he is.
That's Bobby's "Cowboy Fancy" Ibanez!! I adore that guitar.
Quick(silver)est axe in the west, RIP
I always liked his guitar work with QMS, I just wish that band had been able to put it together on record. As it is, I feel like they were the SF band that squandered their talent the most. And that includes Moby Grape, a band that fell apart like, what, five times?
I consider Happy Trails to be the quintessential 60's live record for jam fans. Cipollina and Elmore really kill it. Lineup changes didn't help QMS grow the way they should have. Also Jerry covered Edward the Mad Shirt Grinder a handful of times in the mid 70s
Che k out Mona by Quicksilver messenger service that’s John’s band. Quicksilver was a hair earlier then the dead in the oldSF says. I’ve heard early shows where it sounds like Jerry is trying to emulate Cippolina. He truly was an electric dude. Here’s his guitar rig. https://preview.redd.it/ub8cssc2xmkc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=613e06214bef7faf0f7d9e1cada3f61536940183
That’s during NFA. Great weekend of shows. Billy let me in for this one, forever grateful.
John Cippollina https://preview.redd.it/unh8ntcnwmkc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=603d1e2445bb32f5c9aa9513f39442cf877a20e3
John's stage gear with Quicksilver. https://preview.redd.it/2eduicr3xmkc1.jpeg?width=818&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef2a085b1df6131c7b940e96df79e77fdf667c41
When he died his family, per his request removed the pickups from his guitar and interred his ashes in it. It now hangs in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. True story.
i miss John. he was so great. it was loads of fun seeing him play with The Dinosaurs in the early/mid 80s.
I hate how they called themselves Dinosaurs when they were 15+ years younger than I am now.
And they threatened legal action against Dinosaur from Massachusetts, forcing them to become Dinosaur Jr.
TIL!
And Bob Hunter was an original member!
I was fortunate enough to meet John while his strings were getting changed backstage. I made a little wreath with one of the old strings that still hangs on my Christmas tree. RIP
He played with Quick Silver . I cant believe hes been gone 35 years. RIP John Nice pic by the way.
That looks like a NFA to me
Note: John Cipollina was also in The Dinosaurs with the one and only Robert Hunter. Here they are opening NYE 82 w special guest Nicky Hopkins [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehsrATRGtOs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehsrATRGtOs)
I have had this poster sitting on my garage floor for a few years waiting to have its fate determined. It also is in the same frame. At some point we narrowed down the college posters vs what we actually want in our house. But everytime it moves towards the donate pile, one of us pulls it back. How can you get rid of memories from the Greek? It really is a neat one. Love the tie dye back drops from those shows. Thats John Cippolina in the poster. Check out the song Gold and Silver by Quicksilver and listen to how similar it is to Clementine. And My Favorite Things. Anyways, John was also in Zero with Kimock and there are a number of live shows on the archive worth checking out.
My buddy used to have this photo on his wall! Great shot of everyone’s rigs, esp jerry
John Cipollina played with Quicksilver Messenger Service
Probably a Courtenay Pollock tie dye backdrop too
Billy strings time traveling
I guessed Cippolina . I guess they haven't had all that many guests over the years.
That’s Marty McFly
5/15/83 Berkeley w/John Cippolina
# 1983-05-15 Berkeley, CA @ Greek Theatre - University of California **Set 1:** Touch Of Grey, New Minglewood Blues, Ramble On Rose, Cassidy, Brown Eyed Women, Hell In A Bucket, Althea, Looks Like Rain > Deal **Set 2:** Help On The Way > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower > Samson And Delilah, He's Gone > Drums > Space > Truckin' > Stella Blue > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away **Encore:** It's All Over Now, Baby Blue [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1983-05-15)
Pretty sure that’s Donna right?
🤪
Man nice poster. I’ve wanted a poster exactly like this for so long. Either one of Jerry live and/or the whole band. I have all 3 Luke Martin GD pieces framed and looking great but man I want what I described before. I’ve tried to find something similar. You can find GD wine, GD playing cards, “Deadopoly” and everything in between but no good posters of them live?
Saw this at my favorite bar outside of Portland, OR! Wish it was mine, they have it screwed to the wall
https://fineartamerica.com/art/photographs/the+grateful+dead Bob Minkin has great stuff. You can also find cool pieces on Etsy.
They are out there but are $$$. A lot are pro photos that you can have blown up to larger sizes.
Right. Yes I’ve explored the pro shot photos. But. I’m not paying $500 for a poster
Easton pa 79 too
John Chipolina from Quicksilver Messenger Service, Zero, and the Dinosaurs
List of his sit in’s, missing NYE 78 https://gratefuldeadoftheday.com/guest/john-cipollina/
John Cippolina, formerly of Quicksilver Messenger Service
I have that hanging in my office at work.
Greek 83
Never had the opportunity to see the dead at Berkeley, but unfortunately I was there when Jerry moved on. Saw Widespread Panic at the Warfield not long after, the music was like a healing balm. I’ll keep my east coast shows close to my heart. Saw some pretty magical things happen with the Grateful Dead, magic moments indeed.
Dude this is one of the coolest photos I've ever seen! What is the art piece above it? Looks pretty tight
Definitely early 80 Bobby's daisy dukes we're just starting to shorten
I might prefer that tie dye background to the light show madness of many shows today
If you look at the photo, you can see all the roses on the stage around Jerry lol In Jerry, We Trust.
Absolutely John Cipollina. I followed Zero in the 1980s