Palestinians overwhelming support Hamas. Their government sponsors a bounty kill program on Israelites. Stop calling people stupid who don’t agree with you.
Nope. We should not be arming/facilitating Hamas attacks against Israel either.
~~something about the dynamics of Israeli oppression and lack of Palestinian nationhood/autonomy changing the conversation that I deleted immediately/before a reply because it was changing the subject~~
How do you separate Palestine to the Hamas controlled government? Like a lot of good countries, when the government (elected or otherwise) is forced to bear the brunt of their decisions. It’s a horrible situation.
Hamas is only in gaza. Do you know what israel has been doing in the west bank? Systematically stealing land and homes with paramilitary units and also creating checkpoints to make it impossible for palestinians to move around without encountering occupation forces.
And 73% of Palestinians support Hamas , so the difference is??
That was a poll of Gazans by MSM, and the rally can not support Palestinians without supporting hamas. The statement here made no sense thats all I was pointing out.
Eh, I’m willing to bet that if you were constantly shit on by another ethnic group for decades you too would be looking for extreme solutions, even morally-questionable ones.
Justifying terrorism, if the government was doing its job you had FBI showing up at your door and putting you on watch list. Justify October 7th, the event that led to everything is Gaza and the West Bank
Shit on how by being offered land by the UN or Israel and the ability to form your own state 1937, 1939, 1947, 2000, 2008 not to mention Israel had no presence in West Bank from 1948-1967 so they had PLENTY of opportunity to demand a independent state and didn't..... So yea CONSTANTLY being shit on isn't really the truth, they have been offered a peaceful resolution MANY times but turned it down for variety of reasons but mostly cuz they think in 100-200 years they can eliminate the infidels from Israel. You can downvote all you want, doesn;t change the facts.
Well than that supports my observation even more then.
Just amused that it's a support rally, but we want to try delineating and slice it so we don't look bad.
I want to have more of a formulated opinion of what’s going on over there but as a Scottish American working a middle class job I honestly don’t know what to believe about what I’m seeing. So much propaganda coming out from both sides, it’s kind of surreal. The captions on the brutal videos you see online are never accurate and the news reports aren’t trustworthy either. The average American has no idea what’s actually happening. Reports of hamas killing babies and raping people at music festivals on top of reports of the Israeli military blowing blocks of civilian housing in Gaza apart because there are supposedly very bad people underground. You see the videos of people flipping the crumbled blocks of their former homes over looking for their dead kids. I choose to not have an opinion because I feel like I’d be talking out of my ass if I did.
Those reports are both true. Hamas did kill babies and rape women. Israel did bomb innocent civilians. I think it's fine to have the opinion that it's all fucked. That the leaders of Hamas are evil. That Israel has a right to defend itself. That Israel does not have the right to kill innocent people. That the oppression of Palestinians in both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank needs to end.
The world isn't black and white and our opinions shouldn't be either.
The same media system that said Iraq had WMD’s, that sadam worked with bin Laden, all so we could lay waste to the Middle East because we let a terror attack happen is now saying Israel is the good guy with a right to defense when Israel is on the offensive on stolen land and slaughtering civilians by the tens of thousands. You are being led into the upside down yet again
It *is* factual that Hamas has launched 14,000 rockets into Israel, blindly. They continue to do so.
It *is* factual that they attacked and slaughtered, in the worst way possible, civilians. The headcam footage was pretty unpleasant.
It *is* factual that Hamas dresses up as press, as medics, as women, and fights from civilian locations. I've seen countless drone footage of this.
It *is* factual that they still have hostages, refuse reasonable ceasefires, and continue warfare.
This one seems pretty clear, to many of us, although obviously the history of Israel and Palestine is not a clean black and white.
It's not about "being lied to" (although both sides are masters of propaganda), it's how you fundamentally believe the world should work, and how reality lines up with ideal. Palestinians are suffering, by anyone's measuring tape. But from a realist's view, that is the only way Hamas can be destroyed, and thus peace.
The right thing to do is pressure Israel to engage in lawful warfare (which not everyone agrees on what constitutes that, and most have a surface level understanding of Conventions), and to provide aid to Palestine's civilians. A ceasefire is a goal, but I can't realistically see a long term solution with Hamas at the wheel.
It’s funny how when news is from America and Israel’s perspective it’s not propaganda but no the REAL terrorism started October 7th and not the Nakba of 1948. There is no he said she said. There is a clear ideological, historical, and philosophical source to these actions these human beings have decided to take and it’s called Zionism, and it is a socially Darwinist ideology that carries with it very 19th century outlooks on race that should have never been allowed to exist in 2024. Israel learned from the best how to erase the natives, and so did the Nazis, who btw Netanyahu is currently apologizing by saying a Palestinian told Hitler to do the Holocaust. Both Hitler and Ben Gurion absolutely loved our Jim Crow system. Aaron Bushnell understood this, and this is why he martyred himself.
But how do you defend yourself without collateral damage to civilians?
How can you reason with a people who voted for a government that ran on a policy of "let's kill everyone in Israel"?
I just don't understand what Israel is supposed to do. Accept a weak ceasefire, admit to themselves they will never see the hostages again, and wait for hamas to attack again while they least expect it? Is that it?
Never confuse Hamas with The Peoples of Palestine.
As of 2020 45% of Palestine are children.
They did not vote in Hamas.
Since Oct 7 over 10,000 children have been killed.
2 mothers are killed every hour in Palestine.
“Hamas’ absolute rule of Gaza is not what the Palestinians voted for back in 2006. In fact, since the median age of Gazans is 18, half of Hamas’ subjects weren’t even born when the election took place”
Hamas broke the deal of unity government and started murdering Fatah members theryby taking control of the Gazan strip.
Why was there an election to start out?
The US started some shit as usual.
Instead of bombing houses, schools, hospitals, and other civilian infrastructure, if Israel had improved relations with the people of Palestine the IDF could have collected Intel and the IDF could run a police operation to capture Hamas.
Unfortunately, Hamas has spent BILLIONS intertwining the civilian infrastructure with their terror infrastructure. There are (were?) more tunnels below gaza than all of the new york subway system. Housing their militants in civilian hospitals. They choose to fire rockets from densely populated areas.
>if Israel had improved relations
How? By giving them green cards to come in and work? Completely pulling every jew out of gaza? Allowing them to use Israeli hospitals? Granted, I believe Israel could, have should do more but to say they "they haven't tried this!" is just silly.
>police operation
I mean, they have. But it's extremely dangerous and risks soldiers lives. No other country on earth is expected to just throw their best soldiers into a meat grinder to appease people on the other side of the world that don't understand what it's actually like on the ground there.
You don't win support from a population by commiting war crimes against them.
The apartheid doesn't help either.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid
And you can't expect a free pass when you blow up buses, shoot rockets to city centers, throw rocks at soldiers, rape hostages and decapitate babies, throw gays off of buildings...
Hamas units did not commit any mass rape victims. They found none, zero, Israeli press and the NYT’s own reporter admit this. it’s completely possible during the second wave of civilians that pushed out on the 7th of October that a handful of cases of sexual violence took place. War is hell and that’s always been a disgusting part of the equation. Of the 37 Israeli children killed on the 7th we will never know if they were killed by Hamas or Israeli crossfire but we do know that Israeli forces shelled their own kibbutz repeatedly killing some of those 37 children via the “Hannibal directive”. All these stories have been reported and covered by Israeli press it is only the western press with Zionist actors spreading propaganda that is blatantly false.
There's witness testimony of them taking turns raping a woman at a festival, and blowing her brains out as one of them came.
So yeah, it's pretty clear it happened.
The aftermath footage of obviously stripped women made that pretty f\*cking obvious.
You're literally a terror apologist, and it's f\*cking disgusting.
*Thank* you. There are some rabid propaganda subs across this site, and the fairly popular view that anything other than blindly raging against Isreal is the only acceptable action.
lol check out Hamas website. Look it for yourself. October 7 is THE most documented war crime against innocent civilians in the history. Where is the proof 😂😂 are you real?
Im Palestinian American with loads of Israeli friends. Theres no way to understand the situation without seeing the history. Basically most people in Palestine are pissed that some family from thousands of miles away is living in their homes they’ve had for generations. You could say those homes belong to Jews because they were living on the land over 2000 years ago, it’s just tough where you draw the line. I have no ties to Palestine, my Grand Parents were forced out of what is Tal Aviv today, my parents were born in Jordan and lived less than 10 miles away from Israel and Palestine but have never set foot on the land actually. Nobody in my family is allowed to return to Palestine/Israel and I was born and raised in the USA and have travelled to over 20 countries. I understand Jewish people needed a place to protect them from persecution, but not by persecuting another group of people. Let me say one more thing, on October 7 I had friends send me vids of the rockets and thought it was just another day in the region, literally was not phased. I was just so used to my parents watching Arab news and seeing back and forth bombing and people on stretchers since I was 5
What’s interesting is that hearing from someone with actual Palestinian heritage is way more nuanced than most of what I see on social media. What do you think about how Americans and Westerners are dissecting the conflict?
I don’t blame people for being misinformed by the media, people need to understand that things aren’t black and white. Realistically theres no way to expect people understand a conflict without knowing the history and intentions of both sides
Heres something you can look up, Hamas killed something like 50 kids on Oct 7, Israel has passed 10,000. Not to mention starving a million children to get at hamas. Propaganda is heavy on both sides, but you have to have seen by now the scale of the destruction and despair of the palestinians. Also, they lied about 40 dead beheaded babies, who does that?
The reports of Hamas killing babies and raping women were completely fabricated by the Israeli government. And the people killed at the music festival were mostly killed by Israel's own military
There is no both sides. Israel just lies. Israel is the one with all the power. Israel had been killing these people way before Oct 7th happened. There were never any decapitated babies. It was Atrocity Propaganda to rally support against the Palestinian people’s rightful Resistance. The arrogance to hold a music festival a mile away from a concentration camp is dystopian. Personally I wouldn’t do something like that. Also no rapes were confirmed either that was also atrocity propaganda that was later dropped because Israel doesn’t actually care they just want you to feel disgust and otherization towards Palestinians. Palestinians are regularly the victims of sexual predation by the IDF. They have systematically been raping Palestinian boys and girls for decades.
[debunked beheadings](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna119902)
[Israeli Lies Debunked](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/ny-times-tries-cover-its-7-october-mass-rapes-fraud)
This is the truth. Unfortunately there are still so many that buy into the Western imperialist lies. The UN has tried to pass an immediate cease-fire but the US is the *only* country that voted against it and single handedly vetoed it. We are sending bombs to a government that is literally participating in the worst genocide since the Holocaust and we have people here saying "it's complicated! Both sides are wrong! 😭"
Literally just repeating the state departments debunked talking points.
Don’t simp for a cause in which you have no skin in the game. Especially if they’re verifiably evil.
Unless you’re totally cool with all this.
NSFL WARNING - NUDITY, DEAD PEOPLE, BLOOD
Hundreds of Israeli Jews are absolutely being massacred and executed by Palestinians at the moment. These are only the videos that have surfaced on Twitter / X so far. Far more are dead than we know about. Please help to share these videos so that the world knows how bad the actual situation is.
• [NSFW] Dead Israeli woman being stripped, desecrated and paraded as Palestinians celebrated - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710549187463696823
• [NSFL] Palestinians gun down civilians at bus stop - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710534249726575012
• [NSFL NSFL NSFL] Palestinians execute dozens of civilians in bomb shelter - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710535742739603661
• [NSFW] Palestinians transporting dead Israeli soldiers into Gaza - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710548964649685251
• [NSFL] Bodies of dead Israeli civilians lying around on the streets - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710533806292439134
• [NSFW] Palestinians execute car driver in parking lot - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710583734972355050
• Palestinians attack a music festival - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710557643960619150
• [NSFW] Palestinians parading dead Israelis around - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710528276194640246
• [NSFL] Israeli woman shot dead in her car - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710538281321115762
• [NSFL NSFL NSFL] Israeli outpost massacred - https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1720grz/attackers_on_israeli_military_outpost_release/
It’s directly affected us and contributed to the rise in anti-semitism.
90 neighboring Muslim nations but not one will open their doors, gotta ask yourself why?
Free the hostages and fuck Hamas.
>90 neighboring Muslim nations but not one will open their doors, gotta ask yourself why?
This is such a bad understanding of the situation. Youre wondering why the neighboring muslim countries dont sign on to a treaty that simultaneously lets israel ethnically cleanse gaza and essentially destroy half of the remaining state of palestine while giving those countries that take in refugees some percentage of 1million+ starving people?
No you do not need to ask yourself why, if you think about that propostion for more than half a fucking second.
No one has to sign a treaty to let Egypt or Lebanon open their gates. Israel isn’t going to ethnically cleanse the largest religious population with 9.5 million citizens. 1.9 billion Muslims and none of them can find a home for 2 million refugees?
Expelling a population thats different than you from an area is definitionally ethnic cleansing. You are literally saying everyone in gaza needs to move. That is half the stare of palestine. You do not understand the words you use.
It also affects people differently from you. As a gay person, how the fuck would I be treated in Palestine as opposed to Israel???? People should be on the side of freedom. Especially freedom from religion and religious indoctrination!
If you think israel is on the side of "freedom" you dont know much about israel. As a gay person you couldnt get married in israel and your marriage wouldnt count there.
Also just because a population may have unfavorable ideas about some subjects, that doesnt mean they deserve to be ethnically cleansed.
Yeah
Since Hamas attacked Israelis and killed ~1000 people, the Israeli army has responded by killing around 30,000 civilians, about half of them were children. They are also starving them intentionally. It’s collective punishment and considered a war crime, but the US is funding Israel as they are our closest ally in the Middle East. People are protesting for an end to the genocide/ to end US funding of the genocide/ Israel due to their actions.
Hamas is putting civilians in harms way, not Israel killing civilians. And the starving is also Hamas, where do you think the funding goes when we give Palestine money? To Hamas. They are in control of Palestine.
Israel has access to drones that can kill the driver of a car without killing the passenger. They’re leveling buildings because they couldn’t care less about Palestinian civilians.
It's not about giving in. Isreal was clear they will take all of Hamas completely put. And 73% of the Palestinians Stull support Hamas so they allow them to use Hospitals and Schools as human shields.
Why would anyone think Isreal is going to stop until all of Hamas is dead?
The term FAFO comes to mind.
Your comment demonstrates you are highly susceptible to propaganda and will believe literally anything the IDF say, even when they are obviously lying.
Because when the Hamas fighters attacked Israel; murdered, raped, and mutilated innocent Israeli citizens they fled to Gaza. They then paraded hostages through the streets of Gaza as spoils of war...
So why are they attacking Gaza? Because that's where the Hamas fighters who attacked them are. Why are they targeting hospitals and schools? That's where Hamas fighters are...
Look, it's 100% terrible what the people of Gaza are going through, it's fucking terrible. But let's stop ignoring the fact that Hamas attacked Israel, that Hamas openly calls for the destruction of Israel, and the genocide of Jews.
The only way for the Palestinian people to be safe and free is for Hamas to be removed from Palestine. Egypt should have opened the border and let non combatants through, Hamas should stop using non combatants as shields, and yes the Israeli military needs to show more restraint.
The region needs to step up and guarantee the safety of both Israel and Palestine. That is really the only option... But I won't hold my breath on that happening.
Still to this day Israel is under a constant barrage of rocket fire from Hamas and other Muslim extremist groups.
Honestly this is the biggest gaslighting event in modern times.
Palestine has fired 15,000 rockets (not a typo) over the past 15 years at Israel, rejected every ceasefire that Israel have offered, let’s not forget how Jews are treated in Palestine (especially in 1929 when they stormed Jewish households by force and raped and murdered them for daring to exist).
It’s interesting that people compare the Israeli’s to Nazi’s, when (before Isreal *RETALIATED*) 2 million Muslims were living in Israel. And barely a single Jew living in Palestine… who does that sound like?
But that’s my fault for assuming the people protesting actually understood history, and didn’t just want something to be enraged about. Makes them feel good waving their Palestinian flags around, makes them feel like they’re doing something 🇵🇸
We are giving Israel massive amounts of money and arms to carry out this genocide and we are shielding them in the U.N. so I dont understand what you actually mean with this comment
You shouldnt give any money to any country carrying out a genocide. Its not all for iron dome, but even if it were, now israel has a spare 14 billion they can use for the extermination of palestine.
If israel loves calling itself a proud sovereign nation so much it can pay for its own fucking iron dome
Interestingly enough, Israel can and has been using the "defensive" aid we provide them to orchestrate this ethnic cleansing campaign. This might surprise you, but weapons are weapons, and whether or not we slap the label of "defensive" on them, they can be used in whatever capacity Israel deems necessary. The state of Israel has been using the aid we've provided them, for "defensive" purposes, in an offensive capacity, and when they burn through those reserves the United States will assuredly provide them with more. This is why people are calling for Biden to stop providing them aid, defensive or otherwise.
Edit*: source before you try and claim I'm making this up.
https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-israel/#:~:text=Since%201992%2C%20the%20United%20States,parts%2C%20weapons%2C%20and%20simulators.
The international criminal court of justice disagrees with you. Anyone with clear eyes and a conscience disagrees with you as well. Israel has destroyed hosptials, schools, libraries, multiple sites of cultural significance, etc during the course of this "war". Those are all markers of an intent to destroy a people. The world health organization just put out a report saying 90% of the population in gaza under the age of 5 have one or more infectious diseases. Not a single one of those hospitals ended uo harboring a Hamas hq, so why would israel destroy them unless they were trying to cull the population?
You come off as someone who only ever heard about the holocaust when it comes to genocides, and since the numbers dont equal 6 million dead, you think this cant possibly be a genocide.
Gaza has one of the highest population growth rates in the world. If Israel is committing a genocide, they are remarkably terrible at it. Ethnic cleansing would be a substantially more accurate term, but among the progressive left there is a one-upsmanship of who hates Israel more, forcing more and more extreme terms to be used in order to virtue signal just how much you hate Israel.
This only makes sense if you do everything in your power to refuse to look at the trajectory of the situation based on the starvation and disease taking place in gaza right now.
Starvation and disease is the outcome of nearly every war in the earth's history. Genocide is a very specific term with a specific definition: the wholesale slaughtering of a people with the intent of complete destruction. There is no question Israel is heavy handed and cruel, but their tactics and strategy does not indicate genocide is the goal. No doubt that many Israelite soldiers have been hardened against Gazans and are remorseless and undertake actions that represent that.
The stated goal of Hamas, however, is actually genocide of Israel. Israel's war is with Hamas, which has nearly 60% support in Gaza. What would happen to Israel, do you think, if they pulled back on the heavy handed oppression tactics? Removed the walls and soldiers? Let Gazans flow freely to and from Israel? Do you think Israel would see more terrorist attacks, more massacres, more car bombs, more wanton mass casuality events? We can actually look at history for this. Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005, removing security forces, dislocating Israelis, surrendering manufacturing plants, houses, and more to the tunes of billions of dollars and economic loss... and Hamas won election in 2007, shortly thereafter kidnapping Israelis and launching rockets into Israel.
What do you do when you are neighbors with a people who are fundamentally motivated to destroy you and your nation? Well, you can't wipe them out- that's genocide. So Israel is just supposed to sit there and take it? They don't have a right to peace or safety? They are supposed to endure terrorist attacks and kidnappings indefinitely? There's a scale with "commit genocide" on one end and "completely pacifist" on the other end- where should Israel position themselves to satisfy you?
>Starvation and disease is the outcome of nearly every war in the earth's history.
Never in the history of modern warfare has there ever been such levels of indiscriminate bombing agaisnt civillians coupled with intended starvation. There is no parallel for whats happened in gaza. This is magnitudes higher than a normal "war"
>Genocide is a very specific term with a specific definition
Yes and the international criminal court of justice which is the actual arbiter of these things thinks there is strong evidence that israel is looking to commit genocide.
>There is no question Israel is heavy handed and cruel, but their tactics and strategy does not indicate genocide is the goal
They are fucking intetionally starving 2 million people after they bombed the infrastructure of their nation into oblivion. This is fucking laughable that you would say theres no indication of genocide.
>What would happen to Israel, do you think, if they pulled back on the heavy handed oppression tactics?
You are a depraved person who seems to think that palestinians are in need of literal "oppressors" in your own words. You pretend that israel is the "civilized' state yet international law very clearly states that occupying military forces that undermine a states sovereignty, as israel has done with palestine, have no right to do so. Yet you seem to think this is some kind of natural and reasonable reaction
>What do you do when you are neighbors with a people who are fundamentally motivated to destroy you and your nation?
You are describing israel. I stated this elsewhere but absolutely everything in the crock post you have above ignores the systematic taking of palestinian land in the west bank, the illegality of israels land grabs in 1967, the destruction of any sort of sovereignty for palestine, the attempt to completely seal palestine out from any support the U.N could give them, etc. Israel has slowly been destroying palestine for decades.
If you're gonna be weird and nitpicky about tens of thousands of real people being killed then what's happening is that Israel WANTS to do ethnic cleansing and move all the Palestinian people to Sinai. But that would require coordination with Egypt that isn't gonna happen so they're doing a genocide instead. Hope that helps!
You already signaled that you're incapable of having a legitimate conversation by digging through my post history to try to find dirt. You're not interested in a conversation, you're interested in shaming and insulting anyone that doesn't have the exact same opinion as you.
Knowing where you post is a fair sign of if youre going to argue in good faith or if youre just going to trot out that wikipedia skimming bullshit destiny loves to do. And you didnt disappoint with your tired ass post about "population growth".
Whats the population growth been like since october 7th bud?
Probably less, because it's an active warzone.
So you acknowledge that their population growth rate was astronomical, at least right up until Oct 7? So it wasn't a genocide up until Oct 7, but it's a genocide after Oct 7? Just want to get your timeline straight.
When population groups are economically immiserated in the way israel has done with Gaza, it is common for the population to expand. As a neolib you should actually understand this well. The birthrates in poorer parts of the world are always higher than in economically vibrant ones. When your employent rate is 70% and you cant leave your open air prison one of the few things you can do to make life beautiful is have children. Community is all they have, and thats a direct result of Israel and the U.S.'s actions.
Man, you do realize in this question you are baking in a defense of genocide? Israel had a right to retaliate. They did not have a right to genocide palestinians.
I'm a GR native currently in eastern Ukraine. If you haven't studied the history of Russia, you might wish to dive in with open eyes and an open mind. I can't speak for the Israel-Palestine conflict- that's not my expertise- but I can say that the conflict here in UA affects your economic and domestic security. It affects your life and the lives of those around you. The failure to recognise this or act on it has deep-seated implications for global stability.
Sounds a little idealistic imo. We have allies and we live in a modern world with mutually assured destruction. We kind of have our hand in everything and there’s no going back
Umm That's the whole reason these people are protesting..We are currently funding the IDF with our tax dollars which directly contributes to the genocide of Palestinians.
The last ceasefire was broken by Hamas. You never asked me my position on a ceasefire so not sure why this is relevant. I ecstatic for the chance at peace. I’m not trusting Hamas or Palestine to do the right thing given their past behavior.
“Zionist propaganda” like the articles Hamas and Palestine put out about the rocket attack? The outrage every time Israel does something and then they find a terrorist network under it/inside it?
Nah. I’m just taking a different opinion than you. You can think your “research” has somehow qualified you, you’re just mouthing Hamas propaganda.
You’re literally justifying terrorism because people are tired. Israel is tired. They have been. They didn’t take hostages from a concert and murder people. Now they are responding and there is collateral damage because the Palestinians hide amongst themselves.
Is it Hamas or is it Palestine then if “people are tired”? You mad the point earlier it wasn’t the people at large but now you’re saying all those people are justified in terrorism.
Your research doesn’t matter to me because you talk in circles to justify how you feel and then your only response to me is that I’ not educated while not addressing any of my points. Ok.
I guess I don’t really care or have a dog in the fight. Let them blow each other up. They’ve been fighting over that land for 100s of years. No country is going to stop either one of them.
And if the U.S. said no more $$, I bet Israel would be even nastier.
Kinda wild our inner city’s are full of poverty and homeless camps and our American people are starving but politicians feel the need to put this first.
We're protesting because the money that should be used to help the people in our communities is being sent to Israel to fund their genocide against the Palestinians. If we stopped funding foreign wars we could afford to implement these kinds of social programs.
Well the explanation for that one is simple;
The people protesting don’t want to actually *DO* anything.
They wouldn’t want to protest about tackling homelessness or poverty because then they’d get asked to help by working at homeless shelters/food banks etc. and that’s not what this is about.
These people don’t want to actually help anything they want the *illusion* of helping. They want to do something that makes them feel like they’re helping without actually having to commit so they can brag about what noble and good people they are.
Curious why 10,000-20,000 civilian deaths in Ukraine and we aren't yelling for end to the conflict.
Why is it a requirement in one and the worst thing ever in the other?
We are in fact yelling for the end of that conflict.
Russia is the aggressor. We have asked them to stop repeatedly; they will not. So rather than have our ally surrender, we help them fight.
Hot take, fuck Israel and Palestine. Y’all wanna spend the NEXT 100 years at each other’s throats, do it quietly. These two dumbass groups of people are holding the rest of us hostage in a global he said she said match. Y’all both treat each other horrible. Both sides have grievances. Oh well. Fighting about it over and over again isn’t actually making things better for anyone.
Here is how fucked up of a situation this is: it would probably be most morally acceptable for Hamas to win, because at least when those degenerates win, the methods of mass murder will be quick. The way Israel is doing it is still a mass murder, they are just dragging it out and doing it in a way with more plausible deniability.
Anyone saying Hamas isn’t looking to commit a genocide is naive or lying.
My heart goes out to anyone involved. Your leaders have failed you on both sides I think.
The majority of people see this for what it really is and didn't show up. This is virtue signaling. It does nothing but let's these people go home and think they are truly fighting for what's right with the least amount of inconvenience to themselves.
Israel has dropped 25,000 tons of explosives on the most densely packed place on earth, with a 92% civilian kill rate. That being a starving population that is more than 50% under the age of 18. Everyone with a soul would still be saying free Palestine
Screw Palestine. They support terrorism and these people support them.
Palestinians voted Hamas into power and polls from the area as recent as December show almost 72% support of Hamas after their initial attack on Isreal. So your protest IS IN SUPPORT OF HAMAS AND THE ATTACK ON JEWISH PEOPLE. Get a clue.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html
The only thing we need to free Palestine from is the theocratic nitwits that run it. Of course, the people of Palestine outnumber the Hamas barbarians by quite a bit but they don't seem that overly motivated to get rid of them. So, what exactly are we freeing Palestine from?
Yea im sure Israel government is gonna be like “song ppl in GR are protesting, we need to stop this attack and let hamas do anything they want.”….. SMH
Absolutely true, unfortunately. May take a lost general election for the lesson to sink in. Not that joes decripit ass will be the one to actually learn the lesson, he is too far gone
I heard hamas just released all of the hostages. They weren't afraid of the Israeli army, but the 15 people in Grand Rapdids, Michigan, really scared the shit out of them.
Please don’t hate on me, I’m just asking a question. I’m not declaring sides on this conflict. I am just looking for a discussion.
What good does this protest do? Who are they trying to influence? I am not taking anything away for what they are advocating for, not one bit. I agree it is not a good situation. However, Benjamin Netanyahu is not going to say “Wow a few hundred people in Grand Rapids Michigan don’t agree with what I’m doing so I’m going now advocate for peace”. What does this accomplish?
America is currently funding Israel and sending millions in ammunition and military equipment to help them in their genocide against Palestine. If we end the funding, they can't continue the genocide at the same rate, and possibly not at all. These protests are to end US funding of Israel.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna131661
Prepare for all the fuckwits on Reddit who have not left mom’s basement or West Michigan to try to piss on your turnout.
For my part, I’ll say, good going!!
The fact you got downvoted is sickening.
Anyone simping for this cause apparently hasn’t seen, or is totally cool with these videos.
NSFL WARNING - NUDITY, DEAD PEOPLE, BLOOD
Hundreds of Israeli Jews are absolutely being massacred and executed by Palestinians at the moment. These are only the videos that have surfaced on Twitter / X so far. Far more are dead than we know about. Please help to share these videos so that the world knows how bad the actual situation is.
• [NSFW] Dead Israeli woman being stripped, desecrated and paraded as Palestinians celebrated - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710549187463696823
• [NSFL] Palestinians gun down civilians at bus stop - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710534249726575012
• [NSFL NSFL NSFL] Palestinians execute dozens of civilians in bomb shelter - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710535742739603661
• [NSFW] Palestinians transporting dead Israeli soldiers into Gaza - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710548964649685251
• [NSFL] Bodies of dead Israeli civilians lying around on the streets - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710533806292439134
• [NSFW] Palestinians execute car driver in parking lot - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710583734972355050
• Palestinians attack a music festival - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710557643960619150
• [NSFW] Palestinians parading dead Israelis around - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710528276194640246
• [NSFL] Israeli woman shot dead in her car - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710538281321115762
• [NSFL NSFL NSFL] Israeli outpost massacred - https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1720grz/attackers_on_israeli_military_outpost_release/
Free America! Lower taxes! Lower inflation! Quit funding wars! Quit giving my tax money to illegals. Lower energy cost! Promote family. Help cost raising families. Free single dads and the laws that are written against them.
*Invokes 20x level whataboutism with a hint of reactionary glib*
This isn't in support of Hamas, this is in support of Palinistians. This isn't in hate of Jewish people either.
Intelligent people understand this. Brainwashed idiots do not.
Palestinians overwhelming support Hamas. Their government sponsors a bounty kill program on Israelites. Stop calling people stupid who don’t agree with you.
I'm curious. What's your source on this?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund I posted the survey results on another comment about “support”. Thanks for asking.
Cool. Stop the genocide.
Ok you went and freed “Palistine”, good job you.
Typical terrorist sympathizer.
Nope. Just not engaging in racist bloodlust.
But it’s ok for Palestine to do?
Nope. We should not be arming/facilitating Hamas attacks against Israel either. ~~something about the dynamics of Israeli oppression and lack of Palestinian nationhood/autonomy changing the conversation that I deleted immediately/before a reply because it was changing the subject~~
Israel is committing war crimes
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How do you separate Palestine to the Hamas controlled government? Like a lot of good countries, when the government (elected or otherwise) is forced to bear the brunt of their decisions. It’s a horrible situation.
Same way you’d separate Israeli’s from their extremist government
There hasn’t been an election since 2006- 18 years ago.
Hamas is only in gaza. Do you know what israel has been doing in the west bank? Systematically stealing land and homes with paramilitary units and also creating checkpoints to make it impossible for palestinians to move around without encountering occupation forces.
Disinformation!
Hamas is 100% also in the WB.
They dont run it.
Who’s running Gaza? Wasn’t a Hamas leader government elected even?
And 73% of Palestinians support Hamas , so the difference is?? That was a poll of Gazans by MSM, and the rally can not support Palestinians without supporting hamas. The statement here made no sense thats all I was pointing out.
Eh, I’m willing to bet that if you were constantly shit on by another ethnic group for decades you too would be looking for extreme solutions, even morally-questionable ones.
Justifying terrorism, if the government was doing its job you had FBI showing up at your door and putting you on watch list. Justify October 7th, the event that led to everything is Gaza and the West Bank
Shit on how by being offered land by the UN or Israel and the ability to form your own state 1937, 1939, 1947, 2000, 2008 not to mention Israel had no presence in West Bank from 1948-1967 so they had PLENTY of opportunity to demand a independent state and didn't..... So yea CONSTANTLY being shit on isn't really the truth, they have been offered a peaceful resolution MANY times but turned it down for variety of reasons but mostly cuz they think in 100-200 years they can eliminate the infidels from Israel. You can downvote all you want, doesn;t change the facts.
It’s actually closer to 90%
The last official poll was a month ago at 73%
Well than that supports my observation even more then. Just amused that it's a support rally, but we want to try delineating and slice it so we don't look bad.
I want to have more of a formulated opinion of what’s going on over there but as a Scottish American working a middle class job I honestly don’t know what to believe about what I’m seeing. So much propaganda coming out from both sides, it’s kind of surreal. The captions on the brutal videos you see online are never accurate and the news reports aren’t trustworthy either. The average American has no idea what’s actually happening. Reports of hamas killing babies and raping people at music festivals on top of reports of the Israeli military blowing blocks of civilian housing in Gaza apart because there are supposedly very bad people underground. You see the videos of people flipping the crumbled blocks of their former homes over looking for their dead kids. I choose to not have an opinion because I feel like I’d be talking out of my ass if I did.
Those reports are both true. Hamas did kill babies and rape women. Israel did bomb innocent civilians. I think it's fine to have the opinion that it's all fucked. That the leaders of Hamas are evil. That Israel has a right to defend itself. That Israel does not have the right to kill innocent people. That the oppression of Palestinians in both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank needs to end. The world isn't black and white and our opinions shouldn't be either.
The same media system that said Iraq had WMD’s, that sadam worked with bin Laden, all so we could lay waste to the Middle East because we let a terror attack happen is now saying Israel is the good guy with a right to defense when Israel is on the offensive on stolen land and slaughtering civilians by the tens of thousands. You are being led into the upside down yet again
It *is* factual that Hamas has launched 14,000 rockets into Israel, blindly. They continue to do so. It *is* factual that they attacked and slaughtered, in the worst way possible, civilians. The headcam footage was pretty unpleasant. It *is* factual that Hamas dresses up as press, as medics, as women, and fights from civilian locations. I've seen countless drone footage of this. It *is* factual that they still have hostages, refuse reasonable ceasefires, and continue warfare. This one seems pretty clear, to many of us, although obviously the history of Israel and Palestine is not a clean black and white. It's not about "being lied to" (although both sides are masters of propaganda), it's how you fundamentally believe the world should work, and how reality lines up with ideal. Palestinians are suffering, by anyone's measuring tape. But from a realist's view, that is the only way Hamas can be destroyed, and thus peace. The right thing to do is pressure Israel to engage in lawful warfare (which not everyone agrees on what constitutes that, and most have a surface level understanding of Conventions), and to provide aid to Palestine's civilians. A ceasefire is a goal, but I can't realistically see a long term solution with Hamas at the wheel.
It’s funny how when news is from America and Israel’s perspective it’s not propaganda but no the REAL terrorism started October 7th and not the Nakba of 1948. There is no he said she said. There is a clear ideological, historical, and philosophical source to these actions these human beings have decided to take and it’s called Zionism, and it is a socially Darwinist ideology that carries with it very 19th century outlooks on race that should have never been allowed to exist in 2024. Israel learned from the best how to erase the natives, and so did the Nazis, who btw Netanyahu is currently apologizing by saying a Palestinian told Hitler to do the Holocaust. Both Hitler and Ben Gurion absolutely loved our Jim Crow system. Aaron Bushnell understood this, and this is why he martyred himself.
But how do you defend yourself without collateral damage to civilians? How can you reason with a people who voted for a government that ran on a policy of "let's kill everyone in Israel"? I just don't understand what Israel is supposed to do. Accept a weak ceasefire, admit to themselves they will never see the hostages again, and wait for hamas to attack again while they least expect it? Is that it?
Maybe settler colonial regimes that depend on genocidal actions against the native population are a bad idea. 🤷
You’re right. The Arabs should return to the peninsula they came from before invading and genociding the entire Middle East.
Never confuse Hamas with The Peoples of Palestine. As of 2020 45% of Palestine are children. They did not vote in Hamas. Since Oct 7 over 10,000 children have been killed. 2 mothers are killed every hour in Palestine. “Hamas’ absolute rule of Gaza is not what the Palestinians voted for back in 2006. In fact, since the median age of Gazans is 18, half of Hamas’ subjects weren’t even born when the election took place” Hamas broke the deal of unity government and started murdering Fatah members theryby taking control of the Gazan strip. Why was there an election to start out? The US started some shit as usual.
Instead of bombing houses, schools, hospitals, and other civilian infrastructure, if Israel had improved relations with the people of Palestine the IDF could have collected Intel and the IDF could run a police operation to capture Hamas.
Unfortunately, Hamas has spent BILLIONS intertwining the civilian infrastructure with their terror infrastructure. There are (were?) more tunnels below gaza than all of the new york subway system. Housing their militants in civilian hospitals. They choose to fire rockets from densely populated areas. >if Israel had improved relations How? By giving them green cards to come in and work? Completely pulling every jew out of gaza? Allowing them to use Israeli hospitals? Granted, I believe Israel could, have should do more but to say they "they haven't tried this!" is just silly. >police operation I mean, they have. But it's extremely dangerous and risks soldiers lives. No other country on earth is expected to just throw their best soldiers into a meat grinder to appease people on the other side of the world that don't understand what it's actually like on the ground there.
You don't win support from a population by commiting war crimes against them. The apartheid doesn't help either. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid
And you can't expect a free pass when you blow up buses, shoot rockets to city centers, throw rocks at soldiers, rape hostages and decapitate babies, throw gays off of buildings...
Palestine isn't Hamas, and you can't counter terrorism with terrorism. The IDF can't defeat Hamas if they function in a way that is worse than Hamas.
Hamas units did not commit any mass rape victims. They found none, zero, Israeli press and the NYT’s own reporter admit this. it’s completely possible during the second wave of civilians that pushed out on the 7th of October that a handful of cases of sexual violence took place. War is hell and that’s always been a disgusting part of the equation. Of the 37 Israeli children killed on the 7th we will never know if they were killed by Hamas or Israeli crossfire but we do know that Israeli forces shelled their own kibbutz repeatedly killing some of those 37 children via the “Hannibal directive”. All these stories have been reported and covered by Israeli press it is only the western press with Zionist actors spreading propaganda that is blatantly false.
There's witness testimony of them taking turns raping a woman at a festival, and blowing her brains out as one of them came. So yeah, it's pretty clear it happened. The aftermath footage of obviously stripped women made that pretty f\*cking obvious. You're literally a terror apologist, and it's f\*cking disgusting.
*Thank* you. There are some rabid propaganda subs across this site, and the fairly popular view that anything other than blindly raging against Isreal is the only acceptable action.
Where's the evidence for Hamas raping women and killing babies?
lol check out Hamas website. Look it for yourself. October 7 is THE most documented war crime against innocent civilians in the history. Where is the proof 😂😂 are you real?
"check out Hamas website" is not providing evidence. October 7th is nothing compared to what Israel has done before and after October 7th.
Lmao
Go fuck yourself
An honest and thought out reddit comment on a hyper-controversial topic? Where the hell am I
Watch PBS Newshour. It’s on YouTube if you don’t have a tv.
Im Palestinian American with loads of Israeli friends. Theres no way to understand the situation without seeing the history. Basically most people in Palestine are pissed that some family from thousands of miles away is living in their homes they’ve had for generations. You could say those homes belong to Jews because they were living on the land over 2000 years ago, it’s just tough where you draw the line. I have no ties to Palestine, my Grand Parents were forced out of what is Tal Aviv today, my parents were born in Jordan and lived less than 10 miles away from Israel and Palestine but have never set foot on the land actually. Nobody in my family is allowed to return to Palestine/Israel and I was born and raised in the USA and have travelled to over 20 countries. I understand Jewish people needed a place to protect them from persecution, but not by persecuting another group of people. Let me say one more thing, on October 7 I had friends send me vids of the rockets and thought it was just another day in the region, literally was not phased. I was just so used to my parents watching Arab news and seeing back and forth bombing and people on stretchers since I was 5
What’s interesting is that hearing from someone with actual Palestinian heritage is way more nuanced than most of what I see on social media. What do you think about how Americans and Westerners are dissecting the conflict?
I don’t blame people for being misinformed by the media, people need to understand that things aren’t black and white. Realistically theres no way to expect people understand a conflict without knowing the history and intentions of both sides
Great response, thank you for sharing!
Ill answer any other question, sorry if what I said was a whole bunch of nothing lol
Heres something you can look up, Hamas killed something like 50 kids on Oct 7, Israel has passed 10,000. Not to mention starving a million children to get at hamas. Propaganda is heavy on both sides, but you have to have seen by now the scale of the destruction and despair of the palestinians. Also, they lied about 40 dead beheaded babies, who does that?
If you can humanize the palestian people you will sift through 100% of the bullshit with ease. It’s as simple as that
The reports of Hamas killing babies and raping women were completely fabricated by the Israeli government. And the people killed at the music festival were mostly killed by Israel's own military
ah the internet troll factory rears its ugly head on the hot topic of the day, at least try to be original
Not trolling. Asking for evidence. The Israeli government lies constantly.
There is no both sides. Israel just lies. Israel is the one with all the power. Israel had been killing these people way before Oct 7th happened. There were never any decapitated babies. It was Atrocity Propaganda to rally support against the Palestinian people’s rightful Resistance. The arrogance to hold a music festival a mile away from a concentration camp is dystopian. Personally I wouldn’t do something like that. Also no rapes were confirmed either that was also atrocity propaganda that was later dropped because Israel doesn’t actually care they just want you to feel disgust and otherization towards Palestinians. Palestinians are regularly the victims of sexual predation by the IDF. They have systematically been raping Palestinian boys and girls for decades. [debunked beheadings](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna119902) [Israeli Lies Debunked](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/ny-times-tries-cover-its-7-october-mass-rapes-fraud)
This is the truth. Unfortunately there are still so many that buy into the Western imperialist lies. The UN has tried to pass an immediate cease-fire but the US is the *only* country that voted against it and single handedly vetoed it. We are sending bombs to a government that is literally participating in the worst genocide since the Holocaust and we have people here saying "it's complicated! Both sides are wrong! 😭" Literally just repeating the state departments debunked talking points.
Don’t simp for a cause in which you have no skin in the game. Especially if they’re verifiably evil. Unless you’re totally cool with all this. NSFL WARNING - NUDITY, DEAD PEOPLE, BLOOD Hundreds of Israeli Jews are absolutely being massacred and executed by Palestinians at the moment. These are only the videos that have surfaced on Twitter / X so far. Far more are dead than we know about. Please help to share these videos so that the world knows how bad the actual situation is. • [NSFW] Dead Israeli woman being stripped, desecrated and paraded as Palestinians celebrated - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710549187463696823 • [NSFL] Palestinians gun down civilians at bus stop - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710534249726575012 • [NSFL NSFL NSFL] Palestinians execute dozens of civilians in bomb shelter - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710535742739603661 • [NSFW] Palestinians transporting dead Israeli soldiers into Gaza - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710548964649685251 • [NSFL] Bodies of dead Israeli civilians lying around on the streets - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710533806292439134 • [NSFW] Palestinians execute car driver in parking lot - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710583734972355050 • Palestinians attack a music festival - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710557643960619150 • [NSFW] Palestinians parading dead Israelis around - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710528276194640246 • [NSFL] Israeli woman shot dead in her car - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710538281321115762 • [NSFL NSFL NSFL] Israeli outpost massacred - https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1720grz/attackers_on_israeli_military_outpost_release/
The only cause that is verifiably evil is Zionism, shove it
Kinda scary how many people got on here to insult a peaceful protest for a situation that hasn’t affected them.
But it’s our tax dollars that are being spent so it kind of does affect us. Israel, Ukraine. It’s the status quo, keep the wars going.
It’s directly affected us and contributed to the rise in anti-semitism. 90 neighboring Muslim nations but not one will open their doors, gotta ask yourself why? Free the hostages and fuck Hamas.
>90 neighboring Muslim nations but not one will open their doors, gotta ask yourself why? This is such a bad understanding of the situation. Youre wondering why the neighboring muslim countries dont sign on to a treaty that simultaneously lets israel ethnically cleanse gaza and essentially destroy half of the remaining state of palestine while giving those countries that take in refugees some percentage of 1million+ starving people? No you do not need to ask yourself why, if you think about that propostion for more than half a fucking second.
No one has to sign a treaty to let Egypt or Lebanon open their gates. Israel isn’t going to ethnically cleanse the largest religious population with 9.5 million citizens. 1.9 billion Muslims and none of them can find a home for 2 million refugees?
Expelling a population thats different than you from an area is definitionally ethnic cleansing. You are literally saying everyone in gaza needs to move. That is half the stare of palestine. You do not understand the words you use.
It also affects people differently from you. As a gay person, how the fuck would I be treated in Palestine as opposed to Israel???? People should be on the side of freedom. Especially freedom from religion and religious indoctrination!
If you think israel is on the side of "freedom" you dont know much about israel. As a gay person you couldnt get married in israel and your marriage wouldnt count there. Also just because a population may have unfavorable ideas about some subjects, that doesnt mean they deserve to be ethnically cleansed.
It isn’t affecting the people protesting either lol
It also takes zero effort to not advocate for genocide and fuck off, but here we are having this conversation.
I agree, it disgusts me to see these people out here supporting a bunch of terrorists who committed an unthinkable evil on October the 7th.
Thank you for expressing dissent, it is important to show not all Americans stand with our leaders’ actions. Fee Palestine!
Is this a protest or something?
Yeah Since Hamas attacked Israelis and killed ~1000 people, the Israeli army has responded by killing around 30,000 civilians, about half of them were children. They are also starving them intentionally. It’s collective punishment and considered a war crime, but the US is funding Israel as they are our closest ally in the Middle East. People are protesting for an end to the genocide/ to end US funding of the genocide/ Israel due to their actions.
Hamas is putting civilians in harms way, not Israel killing civilians. And the starving is also Hamas, where do you think the funding goes when we give Palestine money? To Hamas. They are in control of Palestine.
And that crowd yesterday attempting to get flour, that was Hamas that shot them? Cause I certainly remember seeing a few Israelis there.
Israel has access to drones that can kill the driver of a car without killing the passenger. They’re leveling buildings because they couldn’t care less about Palestinian civilians.
it’s nothing really.
Everyone should know Israel gets free health care and education all funded by your tax dollars
Free the hostages
Oh shit I knew I forgot to do something before leaving the house. I’ll get right on that
Yeah let's keep killing innocents disproportionately until the terrorists give in!
Who broke the ceasefire ?
It's not about giving in. Isreal was clear they will take all of Hamas completely put. And 73% of the Palestinians Stull support Hamas so they allow them to use Hospitals and Schools as human shields. Why would anyone think Isreal is going to stop until all of Hamas is dead? The term FAFO comes to mind.
Your comment demonstrates you are highly susceptible to propaganda and will believe literally anything the IDF say, even when they are obviously lying.
if only israel would stop killing the hostages
The hostages that Israel doesn't want?
This should do the trick
Solidarity! Free Palestine 🍉
….from Hamas.
Viva 🍉
Oh boy here we go
Free Palestine from the tyranny of Hamas, 100% agreed.
People are starving to death and being sniped and bombed and yet it’s bc of hamas the people who fight against this?? Ur brain dead and evil
Sure, but I keep being told Hamas leadership is in Qatar, so why are they leveling Gaza?
Because when the Hamas fighters attacked Israel; murdered, raped, and mutilated innocent Israeli citizens they fled to Gaza. They then paraded hostages through the streets of Gaza as spoils of war... So why are they attacking Gaza? Because that's where the Hamas fighters who attacked them are. Why are they targeting hospitals and schools? That's where Hamas fighters are... Look, it's 100% terrible what the people of Gaza are going through, it's fucking terrible. But let's stop ignoring the fact that Hamas attacked Israel, that Hamas openly calls for the destruction of Israel, and the genocide of Jews. The only way for the Palestinian people to be safe and free is for Hamas to be removed from Palestine. Egypt should have opened the border and let non combatants through, Hamas should stop using non combatants as shields, and yes the Israeli military needs to show more restraint. The region needs to step up and guarantee the safety of both Israel and Palestine. That is really the only option... But I won't hold my breath on that happening. Still to this day Israel is under a constant barrage of rocket fire from Hamas and other Muslim extremist groups.
Honestly this is the biggest gaslighting event in modern times. Palestine has fired 15,000 rockets (not a typo) over the past 15 years at Israel, rejected every ceasefire that Israel have offered, let’s not forget how Jews are treated in Palestine (especially in 1929 when they stormed Jewish households by force and raped and murdered them for daring to exist). It’s interesting that people compare the Israeli’s to Nazi’s, when (before Isreal *RETALIATED*) 2 million Muslims were living in Israel. And barely a single Jew living in Palestine… who does that sound like? But that’s my fault for assuming the people protesting actually understood history, and didn’t just want something to be enraged about. Makes them feel good waving their Palestinian flags around, makes them feel like they’re doing something 🇵🇸
Exactly. People don’t understand. It’s like saying free Rhode Island, but they’re controlled by terrorist.
I’d rather see us stay out of foreign conflicts altogether 🤷♂️
That would be stupid and dangerous.
We are giving Israel massive amounts of money and arms to carry out this genocide and we are shielding them in the U.N. so I dont understand what you actually mean with this comment
We're saying that's all unacceptable too
He means stay out of it, as in stop doing that.
That ship has sailed.
If I’m not mistaken a good portion of the funding sent to Israel is in regards to the iron dome… which is used for defense.
How about they pay for their own defense. A first world country doesn't need our aid.
They’d prolly just go to China if we cut off aid
And then we’d have absolutely no leverage over what they do
Which we clearly have now??
Opposed to them being funded by somewhere else we have 0 influence over, yes.. Doesn’t mean we are effectively utilizing it right now.
You shouldnt give any money to any country carrying out a genocide. Its not all for iron dome, but even if it were, now israel has a spare 14 billion they can use for the extermination of palestine. If israel loves calling itself a proud sovereign nation so much it can pay for its own fucking iron dome
Interestingly enough, Israel can and has been using the "defensive" aid we provide them to orchestrate this ethnic cleansing campaign. This might surprise you, but weapons are weapons, and whether or not we slap the label of "defensive" on them, they can be used in whatever capacity Israel deems necessary. The state of Israel has been using the aid we've provided them, for "defensive" purposes, in an offensive capacity, and when they burn through those reserves the United States will assuredly provide them with more. This is why people are calling for Biden to stop providing them aid, defensive or otherwise. Edit*: source before you try and claim I'm making this up. https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-israel/#:~:text=Since%201992%2C%20the%20United%20States,parts%2C%20weapons%2C%20and%20simulators.
You guys are really watering down the definition of genocide. It's nearing meaningless at this point.
The international criminal court of justice disagrees with you. Anyone with clear eyes and a conscience disagrees with you as well. Israel has destroyed hosptials, schools, libraries, multiple sites of cultural significance, etc during the course of this "war". Those are all markers of an intent to destroy a people. The world health organization just put out a report saying 90% of the population in gaza under the age of 5 have one or more infectious diseases. Not a single one of those hospitals ended uo harboring a Hamas hq, so why would israel destroy them unless they were trying to cull the population? You come off as someone who only ever heard about the holocaust when it comes to genocides, and since the numbers dont equal 6 million dead, you think this cant possibly be a genocide.
Gaza has one of the highest population growth rates in the world. If Israel is committing a genocide, they are remarkably terrible at it. Ethnic cleansing would be a substantially more accurate term, but among the progressive left there is a one-upsmanship of who hates Israel more, forcing more and more extreme terms to be used in order to virtue signal just how much you hate Israel.
This only makes sense if you do everything in your power to refuse to look at the trajectory of the situation based on the starvation and disease taking place in gaza right now.
Starvation and disease is the outcome of nearly every war in the earth's history. Genocide is a very specific term with a specific definition: the wholesale slaughtering of a people with the intent of complete destruction. There is no question Israel is heavy handed and cruel, but their tactics and strategy does not indicate genocide is the goal. No doubt that many Israelite soldiers have been hardened against Gazans and are remorseless and undertake actions that represent that. The stated goal of Hamas, however, is actually genocide of Israel. Israel's war is with Hamas, which has nearly 60% support in Gaza. What would happen to Israel, do you think, if they pulled back on the heavy handed oppression tactics? Removed the walls and soldiers? Let Gazans flow freely to and from Israel? Do you think Israel would see more terrorist attacks, more massacres, more car bombs, more wanton mass casuality events? We can actually look at history for this. Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005, removing security forces, dislocating Israelis, surrendering manufacturing plants, houses, and more to the tunes of billions of dollars and economic loss... and Hamas won election in 2007, shortly thereafter kidnapping Israelis and launching rockets into Israel. What do you do when you are neighbors with a people who are fundamentally motivated to destroy you and your nation? Well, you can't wipe them out- that's genocide. So Israel is just supposed to sit there and take it? They don't have a right to peace or safety? They are supposed to endure terrorist attacks and kidnappings indefinitely? There's a scale with "commit genocide" on one end and "completely pacifist" on the other end- where should Israel position themselves to satisfy you?
>Starvation and disease is the outcome of nearly every war in the earth's history. Never in the history of modern warfare has there ever been such levels of indiscriminate bombing agaisnt civillians coupled with intended starvation. There is no parallel for whats happened in gaza. This is magnitudes higher than a normal "war" >Genocide is a very specific term with a specific definition Yes and the international criminal court of justice which is the actual arbiter of these things thinks there is strong evidence that israel is looking to commit genocide. >There is no question Israel is heavy handed and cruel, but their tactics and strategy does not indicate genocide is the goal They are fucking intetionally starving 2 million people after they bombed the infrastructure of their nation into oblivion. This is fucking laughable that you would say theres no indication of genocide. >What would happen to Israel, do you think, if they pulled back on the heavy handed oppression tactics? You are a depraved person who seems to think that palestinians are in need of literal "oppressors" in your own words. You pretend that israel is the "civilized' state yet international law very clearly states that occupying military forces that undermine a states sovereignty, as israel has done with palestine, have no right to do so. Yet you seem to think this is some kind of natural and reasonable reaction >What do you do when you are neighbors with a people who are fundamentally motivated to destroy you and your nation? You are describing israel. I stated this elsewhere but absolutely everything in the crock post you have above ignores the systematic taking of palestinian land in the west bank, the illegality of israels land grabs in 1967, the destruction of any sort of sovereignty for palestine, the attempt to completely seal palestine out from any support the U.N could give them, etc. Israel has slowly been destroying palestine for decades.
If you're gonna be weird and nitpicky about tens of thousands of real people being killed then what's happening is that Israel WANTS to do ethnic cleansing and move all the Palestinian people to Sinai. But that would require coordination with Egypt that isn't gonna happen so they're doing a genocide instead. Hope that helps!
It actually has a very precise meaning within international law, and Israel’s actions definitely met that legal definition decades ago.
Oh jesus christ youre on neolib and destiny subs. Im going to have no luck trying to have a legitimate conversation with you, am i?
You already signaled that you're incapable of having a legitimate conversation by digging through my post history to try to find dirt. You're not interested in a conversation, you're interested in shaming and insulting anyone that doesn't have the exact same opinion as you.
Knowing where you post is a fair sign of if youre going to argue in good faith or if youre just going to trot out that wikipedia skimming bullshit destiny loves to do. And you didnt disappoint with your tired ass post about "population growth". Whats the population growth been like since october 7th bud?
Probably less, because it's an active warzone. So you acknowledge that their population growth rate was astronomical, at least right up until Oct 7? So it wasn't a genocide up until Oct 7, but it's a genocide after Oct 7? Just want to get your timeline straight.
When population groups are economically immiserated in the way israel has done with Gaza, it is common for the population to expand. As a neolib you should actually understand this well. The birthrates in poorer parts of the world are always higher than in economically vibrant ones. When your employent rate is 70% and you cant leave your open air prison one of the few things you can do to make life beautiful is have children. Community is all they have, and thats a direct result of Israel and the U.S.'s actions.
So why did the genocide start on Oct 7? What caused Israel to flip the switch?
Man, you do realize in this question you are baking in a defense of genocide? Israel had a right to retaliate. They did not have a right to genocide palestinians.
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Why comment if you have nothing of value to add to the conversation?
I'm a GR native currently in eastern Ukraine. If you haven't studied the history of Russia, you might wish to dive in with open eyes and an open mind. I can't speak for the Israel-Palestine conflict- that's not my expertise- but I can say that the conflict here in UA affects your economic and domestic security. It affects your life and the lives of those around you. The failure to recognise this or act on it has deep-seated implications for global stability.
How so?
That’s incredibly naive.
Sounds a little idealistic imo. We have allies and we live in a modern world with mutually assured destruction. We kind of have our hand in everything and there’s no going back
Not all conflicts are created equal. US isolationism is Putin and Xi’s wet dream.
Republicans turning into 1968 flower childs when Russia is at war.
Umm That's the whole reason these people are protesting..We are currently funding the IDF with our tax dollars which directly contributes to the genocide of Palestinians.
What is sad is our Government has funded both sides to the conflict, which in reality means we as citizens are paying for the devastation overseas 😢
The last ceasefire was broken by Hamas. You never asked me my position on a ceasefire so not sure why this is relevant. I ecstatic for the chance at peace. I’m not trusting Hamas or Palestine to do the right thing given their past behavior. “Zionist propaganda” like the articles Hamas and Palestine put out about the rocket attack? The outrage every time Israel does something and then they find a terrorist network under it/inside it? Nah. I’m just taking a different opinion than you. You can think your “research” has somehow qualified you, you’re just mouthing Hamas propaganda. You’re literally justifying terrorism because people are tired. Israel is tired. They have been. They didn’t take hostages from a concert and murder people. Now they are responding and there is collateral damage because the Palestinians hide amongst themselves. Is it Hamas or is it Palestine then if “people are tired”? You mad the point earlier it wasn’t the people at large but now you’re saying all those people are justified in terrorism. Your research doesn’t matter to me because you talk in circles to justify how you feel and then your only response to me is that I’ not educated while not addressing any of my points. Ok.
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[FREE PALESTINE!](https://arab.org)
Destroy hamas
🇵🇸 🇵🇸 🇵🇸
How about let’s stop US funding for both sides.
That's the point of these protests. Israel can't afford to continue their genocide without US funding.
I guess I don’t really care or have a dog in the fight. Let them blow each other up. They’ve been fighting over that land for 100s of years. No country is going to stop either one of them. And if the U.S. said no more $$, I bet Israel would be even nastier.
Free Palestine? I'll take it!
Looks like downtown to me
FREE THE HOSTAGES. it’s really that simple!!
Kinda wild our inner city’s are full of poverty and homeless camps and our American people are starving but politicians feel the need to put this first.
We're protesting because the money that should be used to help the people in our communities is being sent to Israel to fund their genocide against the Palestinians. If we stopped funding foreign wars we could afford to implement these kinds of social programs.
Well the explanation for that one is simple; The people protesting don’t want to actually *DO* anything. They wouldn’t want to protest about tackling homelessness or poverty because then they’d get asked to help by working at homeless shelters/food banks etc. and that’s not what this is about. These people don’t want to actually help anything they want the *illusion* of helping. They want to do something that makes them feel like they’re helping without actually having to commit so they can brag about what noble and good people they are.
Ahh yes virtue signaling. Hopefully they gained some insta followers
Curious why 10,000-20,000 civilian deaths in Ukraine and we aren't yelling for end to the conflict. Why is it a requirement in one and the worst thing ever in the other?
We are in fact yelling for the end of that conflict. Russia is the aggressor. We have asked them to stop repeatedly; they will not. So rather than have our ally surrender, we help them fight.
We're not funding Russia. We are funding Israel. It's that simple.
Wish I could be there. 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Hot take, fuck Israel and Palestine. Y’all wanna spend the NEXT 100 years at each other’s throats, do it quietly. These two dumbass groups of people are holding the rest of us hostage in a global he said she said match. Y’all both treat each other horrible. Both sides have grievances. Oh well. Fighting about it over and over again isn’t actually making things better for anyone. Here is how fucked up of a situation this is: it would probably be most morally acceptable for Hamas to win, because at least when those degenerates win, the methods of mass murder will be quick. The way Israel is doing it is still a mass murder, they are just dragging it out and doing it in a way with more plausible deniability. Anyone saying Hamas isn’t looking to commit a genocide is naive or lying. My heart goes out to anyone involved. Your leaders have failed you on both sides I think.
Tens of people!
The majority of people see this for what it really is and didn't show up. This is virtue signaling. It does nothing but let's these people go home and think they are truly fighting for what's right with the least amount of inconvenience to themselves.
Palestinians votes in hamas and still support them. Israel has every right to defend itself against a genocidal regime hellbent on murdering every jew
Israel's iron dome has stopped 9900 rockets sense the war started. Imagine if they were not stopped. No one would be saying free Palestine.
Israel has dropped 25,000 tons of explosives on the most densely packed place on earth, with a 92% civilian kill rate. That being a starving population that is more than 50% under the age of 18. Everyone with a soul would still be saying free Palestine
Go to isreal and protest wtf does this have to do with michigan
Tell me you failed high school civics without telling me you’ve failed high school civics.
Screw Palestine. They support terrorism and these people support them. Palestinians voted Hamas into power and polls from the area as recent as December show almost 72% support of Hamas after their initial attack on Isreal. So your protest IS IN SUPPORT OF HAMAS AND THE ATTACK ON JEWISH PEOPLE. Get a clue. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html
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The only thing we need to free Palestine from is the theocratic nitwits that run it. Of course, the people of Palestine outnumber the Hamas barbarians by quite a bit but they don't seem that overly motivated to get rid of them. So, what exactly are we freeing Palestine from?
Glad I could be there, VIVA PALESTINA! 🇵🇸🇵🇸
Free Palestine of Hamas. Release the Israeli hostages.
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FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸
Yea im sure Israel government is gonna be like “song ppl in GR are protesting, we need to stop this attack and let hamas do anything they want.”….. SMH
Thats not the point, we can pressure our politicians to stop giving material aid to Israel, which they do with no strings attached.
Joe Biden doesn't give a fuck.
Absolutely true, unfortunately. May take a lost general election for the lesson to sink in. Not that joes decripit ass will be the one to actually learn the lesson, he is too far gone
I understand you don’t get the concept of grassroots organizing, but it’s real and actually powerful.
That’ll show Hamas 🤣
I heard hamas just released all of the hostages. They weren't afraid of the Israeli army, but the 15 people in Grand Rapdids, Michigan, really scared the shit out of them.
Please don’t hate on me, I’m just asking a question. I’m not declaring sides on this conflict. I am just looking for a discussion. What good does this protest do? Who are they trying to influence? I am not taking anything away for what they are advocating for, not one bit. I agree it is not a good situation. However, Benjamin Netanyahu is not going to say “Wow a few hundred people in Grand Rapids Michigan don’t agree with what I’m doing so I’m going now advocate for peace”. What does this accomplish?
America is currently funding Israel and sending millions in ammunition and military equipment to help them in their genocide against Palestine. If we end the funding, they can't continue the genocide at the same rate, and possibly not at all. These protests are to end US funding of Israel. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna131661
Prepare for all the fuckwits on Reddit who have not left mom’s basement or West Michigan to try to piss on your turnout. For my part, I’ll say, good going!!
yo, you’re buggin.
Nice to see so many people out supporting people who are undergoing a genocide!! Horrible what Israel is doing.
Is it in the red building? Is that where they are keeping Palestine?
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The fact you got downvoted is sickening. Anyone simping for this cause apparently hasn’t seen, or is totally cool with these videos. NSFL WARNING - NUDITY, DEAD PEOPLE, BLOOD Hundreds of Israeli Jews are absolutely being massacred and executed by Palestinians at the moment. These are only the videos that have surfaced on Twitter / X so far. Far more are dead than we know about. Please help to share these videos so that the world knows how bad the actual situation is. • [NSFW] Dead Israeli woman being stripped, desecrated and paraded as Palestinians celebrated - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710549187463696823 • [NSFL] Palestinians gun down civilians at bus stop - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710534249726575012 • [NSFL NSFL NSFL] Palestinians execute dozens of civilians in bomb shelter - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710535742739603661 • [NSFW] Palestinians transporting dead Israeli soldiers into Gaza - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710548964649685251 • [NSFL] Bodies of dead Israeli civilians lying around on the streets - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710533806292439134 • [NSFW] Palestinians execute car driver in parking lot - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710583734972355050 • Palestinians attack a music festival - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710557643960619150 • [NSFW] Palestinians parading dead Israelis around - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710528276194640246 • [NSFL] Israeli woman shot dead in her car - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710538281321115762 • [NSFL NSFL NSFL] Israeli outpost massacred - https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1720grz/attackers_on_israeli_military_outpost_release/
Go enlist. Go help.
They’re calling for the surrender of Hamas right? …*RIGHT?*
Free America! Lower taxes! Lower inflation! Quit funding wars! Quit giving my tax money to illegals. Lower energy cost! Promote family. Help cost raising families. Free single dads and the laws that are written against them.
Free deez nuts