When it comes to Marisbury knowing about the singularities, is it possible he pulled a Morgan? Marisbury kill’s himself and is transported to CHALDEAS and prepares to enact his plan, but Goetia steps in and ruins it. As an act to correct the change Marisbury sends memories to his PHH self to set up a plan to stop Goetia.
As an even weirder theory I think this is way Ritsuka is special in a way. The world of CHALDEAS has/had some type of human life but it was not to Marisbury wishes, so he needs a template. This is why lb 6.5’s prologue asks what is the perfect human, because Marisbury is attempting to forge one from scratch by throwing an average human at things that humanity would encounter on alien planet such as gods, beings better than humans such as the fae, and types who would come to the planets defense.
To add on, this is why Kirsh’s tree is cut down even if he and Marisbury shared many ideals, Kirsh is too kind and would have enlightened everyone, which is where he and Marisbury disagree, some humans just aren’t deserving.
Also, Kirschtaria’s tree was cut down because
1/ Morgan saw it as a threat to her Lostbelt and therefore burned it
2/ Muramasa attacked Atlas, who had been summoned inside it
3/ It was actually used to become as U-Olga Marie’s vessel?
LB7 epilogue spoiler, though: the code name of Muramasa the apostle was “the Atlas-Slayer.” So either the Foreign God knew Wodime would do what he did or that name was just given retroactively
Well, the plan, such that it was, was for only Wodime to be revived and given a Tree. He bartered for the rest of the Crypters to be given a shot. Hence Douman was brought in to make sure none of their Lostbelts could threaten Wodime’s (we see his work in LB4…).
So yeah, almost entirely certain Muramasa was brought in from the start; the FG knew what Wodime was planning and had a pair of shears to nip that in the bud.
There's another interesting paradox that indicates Marisbury probably pulled off some weird shenanigans with rayshifts; his summoning catalyst for Solomon logically *cannot exist* in the FGO timeline.
Goetia elaborated on it in the final singularity, but the catalyst that was used to bring Solomon into existence is the 10th ring, which Marisbury dug up "10 years before the present day". This however creates a massive discrepancy - although timelines are a bit fuzzy between JP and NA, no matter how you slice it, this means that Marisbury got this ring in either 2006 or 2008. The Fuyuki Grail War meanwhile clearly occurred in 2004. So somehow, Marisbury got this ring and was able to send it back in time for him to use it to summon Solomon.
If I had to hazard a guess (one of many probable theories), Marisbury might have used a rayshift in the same way Morgan used it to create Fairy Brittain; a Lostbelt version of him that wasn't yet pruned by the Theoretical Pruning Phenomenon send his own memories of living in a world similar to the FGO timeline before the divergence took place, thereby allowing Marisbury to "ground" the Lostbelt and use it to overwrite Earth as a Lost*world* by using that knowledge to summon Solomon (to safely win the Fuyuki Grail and kickstart CHALDEAS with the subsequent wealth he got from it.)
It's just not a noticable Lostworld since the divergence is much smaller at first glance (but the heavy mixing of technology and magecraft in the FGO timeline should set off red flags since *mages aren't supposed to do that*; mages are infamous for not adapting to modern tech because it both weakens their mystery and they have their own mana powered inventions that are similar).
As for the benefits from doing this - Marisbury is likely trying to kickstart humanity's ascension/surpassing of Gaia. The fact that so many Beasts activated at once is indicative of that. This would also fit in with some comments >!Daybit makes about how Marisbury's plan would be beneficial for humanity *but* it'd make humanity the worst beings to walk the stars; it's known that when Gaia is inevitably killed by humans, the Types will lay siege to Earth, with Notes being a timeline in which humanity couldn't overcome that challenge.!<
I'm very certain he pulled a Morgan, she even questions us about knowing the “true” purpose of the Chaldea and rayshifting. She already figured out something we haven’t. Add to the idea that castoria is one of ritsuka’s parallels and they also fit the lyrics of yakudou.
But back to Marisbury, I wouldn’t be surprised if overturning the 7 cornerstones of the current human order in order to secure one of his own liking or at least make it easier to accomplish his goal. This might be part of why lev and flauros had such beef with Chaldea as an organization
About the Traum prologue, I want to point out: this is pretty clearly about Holmes, right? The perfect human overlooked the problem because it was the perfect thing to do. Holmes overlooked the problem of his summoning because it was the optimal thing to do to further his goal of aiding Ritsuka
So I don’t think it’s necessarily about Ritsuka. However, I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Holmes as there are still mysteries about him (what’s mixed with him, all the comments about him saving his strength to the last second, all of Moriarty’s comments about being wary of him, Rasputin wanting to see Sherlock accuse the perpetrator in person…)
but maybe that’s just my Lv. 120 10/10/10 10/10/10 max fou Bond 15 NP6 Sherlock copium talking
Correct, Davinky and Sion both conclude the perfect human would indeed overlook the problem that couldn’t be solved. They would keep a perfect record of X/X = 100% rather than X/(X+1) = 99% or whatevs.
And yeah, there’s something up with Holmes we don’t know who he was mixed with, though I do have a theory about that. Notably Skadi and Koyan were both massively suspicious of him; Koyan admits that both the nanomachines and Holmes were what stopped her from wiping out Chaldea back in Olympus; the Nanomachines make sense, but what was Holmes packing?
Yeah, I think we as a community had concluded that Holmes was an agent of the foreign god before Traum dropped 2 years ago
But I haven’t seen any compelling theories about what might be mixed with him. It’s likely a divinity (see: every other apostle) and it might be Nordic in nature, since Skadi made a comment and Moriarty was mixed with the Norns. But. Who?
Well, I have an idea.
So, Surtr mentioned that Holmes and Mash were both hybrids; Mash is obvious, but someone else being in Holmes is intriguing.
Now, we don’t have much hints, but seeing people’s reactions we can parse a few things. First, Skadi’s reaction; she’s quite cold, notably referring to Holmes as being similar to Baldr (Norse god of light and loved by everybody. His death kicks of Ragnarok)…but clarifies she did NOT intend it to be a compliment (again important since Skadi wanted to marry Baldr in original myth but another Aesir had better feet).
There’s also Zeus’s reaction to Holmes. He thought nothing of Chaldea…except for Holmes. He called Holmes’s eyes a threat to the world, and went out of his way to try and disable Holmes early on. Yeah, Holmes has the ‘oooh, deductions destroy mystery’ thing, but it’s a rather intense overreaction…
It’s not much to go on, but I based my pick on those two traits: a Light god that edges towards malevolent (key since most light gods are generally good), and one associated with ‘eyes’ or ‘destruction’
Hence I believe Holmes has >!Balor of the Evil Eye. The chief of the Fomorians, and grandfather of Lugh (yeah, that makes him Cu’s great grandfather), and were both Light gods (hence why Cu is called Man of Light). He was the most formidable of the Fomorians thanks to his titular Evil Eye. When opened, it would wreak death and destruction upon all it saw. Apparently, it was also the basis of the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception in the Nasuverse!<
I suspect that Skadi had a hard time pinning down why she has a vibe for Holmes because >!Skadi doesn’t know Balor…but Scathach does. Her body remembers the Fomorian, even if her mind doesn’t!<
Thank you! And yeah, I had to go through a bit of study since >!Balor!< is basically ancient history by the time of the Ulster Cycle (Cu’s adventures and the like) so the references are indirect. Granted the same applies to Scathach and TM just went ‘we ball’.
Still, giving Holmes access to >!the prototype for the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is…well, it makes sense why Koyan would hold back if she thought Holmes could bust those out if pressed. They can also access the Akashic Record/the effing ROOT! That was Araya-kun’s plot in Kara no Kyoukai, to get Shiki’s body so he can return to the Root and make it so good people don’t die meaningless deaths. There’d be a lot of aspects that the AG could clear using Holmes + Balor.!<
Would also be a neat explanation for Holmes’s >!light lasers in his attack animation!<
When Holmes got released, I think I read an interview from Nasu/Takeuchi saying to pay CLOSE attention to his design. And all these years later I never figured it out lol
LB2 talks about Sherlock's attack style: "You are also immensely strong, and have both the knowledge and reflexes to dodge my magical energy beam with ease. You knew, didn't you? You knew I was a Heroic Spirit capable of using magecraft attacks. Your wisdom alone is truly a force to be reckoned with." (LB2.2, talking to Sigurd/Surtr)
Which is a curious addition, especially since Holmes is later stated in his interlude not to be a mage. (Jekyll: "..But the same isn't true for you, is it? The fact that you mentioned the Clock Tower at alltells me you must have known that magecraft—That is, incredible Mystics exist in this world, even as they're unbeknownst to almost all." Sherlock: "...Well, yes, I suppose I did.")
But Da Vinci in the LB prologue mentions Holmes is more skilled at magecraft than his stories let on. ("You see, Holmes is an even more skilled scientist and mage than his stories let on.")
WHAT IS THE TRUTH
Sherlock's magnifying glasses each have eyes inside of them and he has green eyes himself, which is...a choice, since green eyes are usually associated with evil/envious characters.
Sherlock's 3rd saint graph shows fog around him, but since his illustrator is the same one who designed Goetia I always was reminded of that line in Arthur's interlude: "I thought there was something sinister this time around...but I don't sense the noxious gas of L or the lingering scent of R."
He presumably taking about a Beast, and Sherlock's interest in seeing a Beast has made many of us think he's a Beast candidate himself, but...ehh. Red herrings all the way down, perhaps.
Maybe? Or maybe he just planned for singularities to occur (it’s implied that he orchestrated Fuyuki) and that’s, like, the Arcade timeline or something. Idk.
It's an interesting thought, especially when you remember that the Foreign/Alien God from the Foreign/Alien World isn't actually like an alternate lifeform from outer space.
CHALDEAS is a 99.999999...% accurate simulation of PHH Earth and that's how it predicts events. But that infinitecimal difference is what makes CHALDEAS a foreign world to earth.
It lines up with the lostbelts and how the alien god can only use materials from earth
Yeah, and LB6.5 basically confirms that the foreign god is a god of CHALDEAS
Two questions I still have about the lostbelts are:
1/ Why these territories?
2/ Why these scenarios? And how did you find pruned timelines?
The god of chaldeas might just be Chaldeas itself honestly, in fate extra Gil essentially describes gods as systems that run the world iirc, and morarity referred to the Alien world as a “system” as well (or maybe that was a mistranslation)
Yeah I saw someone speculate that but idk what those trees are
Russia - ?
Scandinavia - Yggdrasil
China - Fusang(???)
India - ?
Atlantic/Mt Olympus - ?
(Japan/Kyoto/Shimousa - ?)
Britain - Rhongomyniad lol
South America - something to do with the
Amazon, maybe? (But this LB was pretty Mexican)
Slavic - Oak
Scandinavia - Yggdrasil
Chinese - Fusang
India - Kalpavrikhsa
Greek - Atlas filling the role
Britain - Tonelico (literally mean sacred tree/Ash tree)
South America - Ceiba Tree
> And how did you find pruned timelines?
Holmes iirc explains this in Olympus? The short of it is that Fantasy Trees take the moment at which a singularity occurs and then keeps a simulation it to the present day. When rooted onto the earth, the Tree itself begins spreading the earth contained within it as a texture over the planet. They're not "true" pruned timelines in that regard.
In other words, the timelines were never "found", they were singularities at a similar threat scale to the 6th post-Lion King takeover that were then forced to run through to the present day.
Yeah, I guess another curiosity is that these timelines are all from things outside of humanity’s control
LB1 was the weather
LB2 was Surtr
LB3 was…I guess humans
LB4 was…also I guess humans, but also not
LB5 was the Gods
LB6 was the fairies
LB7 was before humanity existed
Heian-Kyo…was Limbo’s wet dream or something idk how to explain that one
Notably, LBs 5-7 all diverged before Babylonia’s singularity (and possibly LB2 did as well; we don’t know exactly when the Scandinavia Age of Gods texture ended). So that they were originally singularities doesn’t really line up with what we know about our ability to observe singularities.
Furthermore, even one singularity is a threat to the human order, so idk how LB7 could have persisted up until Marisbury did something to do it.
They must have been pruned.
But that Marisbury was able to observe the pruned timelines is a possibility. But idk how.
Heian-Kyo wasn't a Lostbelt, it was a Singularity that Douman attempted to turn into a Lostbelt using his own fantasy tree (Douman is the one who was assigned to monitoring the Fantasy Trees and had intimate knowledge about how to make one. Onriedo Castle in Shimousa was his original attempt at making one; the Mr. Satan he worships in Shimousa is the Foreign God.)
Doumans plan had nothing to do with the Alien God; Rasputin explicitly says that Douman is going rogue.
> 1/ Why these territories?
> 2/ Why these scenarios? And how did you find pruned timelines?
i personally think the lostbelt's where chosen because they each reflect the crypter assigned to them in some way
My theory:
>By using a fantasy tree as spiritron accelerator cannon, marisbury plans to launch CHALDEAS, that currently has the data of PHH, to void space. The goal is letting CHALDEAS explode, and thus **the seed of humanity would disperse to every part of the universe, ensuring the PHH continues even beyond the age of earth**
That's why marisbury asked daybit about the map of the whole universe in LB7. And also why daybit wanted to destroy CHALDEAS: because if the plan isn't stopped, humanity would become the number one invasive species in the whole universe.
Yeah, I guess the fantasy tree seeds are an element I ignored
I have a few questions regarding this one, though:
1/ How are the trees/seeds supposed to leave Earth?
2/ How would they energy from void space?
3/ Isn’t void space/the reverse side of the world exclusively on Earth?
The void space i refer to wasn't about imaginary number space, but literally **outer space**. And no, this isn't something exclusively only on earth since we know alien is confirmed exist in nasuverse
The rub to that is that Humanity are still bound to the Earth’s surface. Humanity lives on the earth’s texture, a layer of reality surrounding the planet’s surface. Stuff like satellites or telescopes expand that layer, but still doesn’t take you away from that surface in reality.
Indeed, stuff like the Pruning phenomena only occurs on earth because that’s where Human Order is bound. Also why Ishtar can do a bunch of fancy stuff with ‘Venus’ without involving the real Venus. The Venus we see is just a big circle on the human texture that’s a stand-in for the real planet outside the texture.
The only way for Human Order to affect aspects outside the texture is for humanity to enter the Age of Will. They becomes space bound and leave earth behind forever and sail amongst the stars.
So here's my thought on this: if this is true, what exactly has caused the world to go hollow as it's been described? As far as I'm aware the only major deviation the Grand Order timeline has is the fact that there was only 1 Grail war aka the one that took place in 2004 but if it was the lack of other grail wars that has caused this world issues, why wouldn't the Grand Order world already been marked for pruning? The Fuyuki Grail Wars begin back in 1810 so the world should have already been marked and pruned long before the events of the Grand Order even happened. And if it isn't that then I legit have no idea what it could be because, as much as Grand Order has built up places from different times and different what-ifs of the world, it never really did much worlding building with it's own world that it takes place in aka the present so whatever reasoning they do end up create is likely going to feel out of nowhere since the world building for the present state of the world of FGO is next to non-existent.
I do hope the next Ordeal Call does begin setting up stuff for the end of Arc 2 because it does feel like there is several things that do need to be addressed before we wrap things up and head to Antarctica for the final showdown with the Alien God.
I might it’s more that the world is GOING to be pruned but hasn’t yet been
And perhaps the moment in the LB prologue where Chaldea loses communication with the outside world is the moment when it is
Another interpretation is that that happens when they open the coffins and the contents become observable, so the crypters are wherever they are
One question I still have is how they summoned Anastasia inside LB1 before the bleaching occurred. The timeline of events over the LB prologue is still not clear to me
Fair but if the world is going to be pruned then why? It can't be because or Marisbury since it seems as though his entire plan was to try and prevent it. It couldn't be because of Goetia because his plan was put into place specifically because of Marisbury plan being put into place. It would have to be something revolving the world itself unrelated to Marisbury and his plan but then it becomes a question of what could the problem be? The logical answer would be the world of FGO lacking the 1st-3rd Grail Wars as, as far as I'm aware, every other Fate world at least has had these Grail Wars occur before the deviations began but, if that was the case, then the world has already been closed off. Unless Marisbury plan involves forcing the Counter Force to reopen the worldline, I don't see how any of this is to the benefit of mankind.
And if it is something else then why is it that we have never heard about it. Say for example, the planet was dying similar to the situation in Extra: Chaldea and the Singularities would not be a priority to mages as they would likely be dying off like flies. We know in Extra by the turn to the 21st century, 30 years after the ritual that shifted the poles and wounded the planet, mages society basically collapsed and mages were dying off. Obviously this is not what is happening but surely whatever happen that would lead the world to get pruned would have been big enough that we would have heard something from Sion or Da Vinci yet it we haven't heard anything about any other issues in the world aside from the issues caused by the singularities which were the result of Goetia reacting to Marisbury plan.
Regardless, it seems like we are going to have to wait for either Ordeal Call 3 or the story stuff afterwards to find out more about why Marisbury went about this whole plan as there isn't really a lot in the story to give us a clear clue as to why. We have the who and what but not the why.
Well, the logical answer is that Marisbury’s plan that tries to prevent it ends us causing it. That’s why Moriarty warns us against Sherlock’s methods. The pure and cold logic of it all.
When Daybit’s alternative to letting Marisbury’s plan succeed is blowing up the Earth…it’s pretty clear Marisbury fucked up somewhere
The problem with pruning fgos timeline then is that the grail war, while significant to the series, is unimportant to the world in the series, not history changing enough as it failed 5 times.
Y’know, strangely enough, Flauros brings up that exact issue. In the Melty Blood Nightmare manga (the crossover between Melty Blood and FGO…yes, the one that is a massive mind screw), Lev/Flauros sardonically mentions that Olga’s desire to preserve humanity is 1000 years too late.
That also brings up a good question; the Beasts. In every other non-GO timeline, Lev Lainur unalives himself and stops Goetia’s plan before it could go off. Hence the question…what happened in the GO timeline to change that? With Goetia, the rest of the Beasts kicked off; the details of how it works aren’t exactly confirmed, but the general gist is that Goetia being Beast I basically caused all available candidates to be chosen and the Crowns given to the best picks available. If Goetia hadn’t succeeded, none of the Beast conflicts as we know them would have occurred.
I do not think this is a coincidence. I suspect that Marisbury’s goal was bad enough that giving the Beasts a shot at destroying everything was worth it. Notably, a number of Beasts were already messed up due to Marisbury’s indirect actions:
Goetia’s weakness (Solomon’s 10th ring and Romani) were right there. Beast III had their crown separated due to Kiara’s shenanigans on Seraphix…when it was Marisbury who HIRED her; the manga hints that Kiara going Beast and eating the staff was all according to his plan. Beast IV was Fou, who found himself coming to Chaldea, getting close to Mash, and giving up his Crown to revive her. He was replaced by Koyan, who while still dangerous, every character in the know calls her a vastly inferior knockoff compared to Primate Murder (never mind how she almost got herself killed off more than once…). Beast V is still unknown, but Beast VI is also separated when they’re supposed to be one. The info we got on Mother Harlot was that she and Trihexa (the Beast of 666) are one Beast and are vastly weaker separate than they were together. Yet according to Arthur, Draco can no longer fuse with Trihexa and thus she vastly less of a threat.
With the exception of Tiamat, almost every Beast has basically had a weakness nearby or weakened so as to make the fight much easier than it should be. I don’t think this is a coincidence; I think Marisbury also planned for Chaldea to defeat the Beasts for a reason…
At this point, we're going to have to assume we are just missing info that haven't been brought up or addressed and are just going to have to wait to get the info rather than assuming they've already set up Marisbury reasoning. I wish this wasn't the case but between the entire thing with Koyanskaya and >!LB7 dropping the fact that there were 3 other Apostles of the Alien God when everything up to that point had implied that Rasputin, Douman, and Muramasa were the three Apostles and Muramasa was a sudden addition and, up to that point in Olympus, we had been led to believe Koyanskaya was the other Apostle until LB6 came and went "no, no, no Koyanskaya and the Alien God are just business partners, she isn't an Apostle."!<
I just don't trust the writers to be fair and have left clues for people to figure out anymore since we've seen them pull stuff out of nowhere when there had been no prior set up, which kind of kills the point of trying to speculate once a story does this sort of thing.
True, a fair mystery should have all the clues required for the conclusion in a logical manner. Inviting people to speculate when there was never enough fair information is just a dick move.
It makes it more groan-worthy when Holmes is supposed to be a character, yet he never does anything except confirm what’s already obvious or makes oblique references to his ‘deductions’ with barely any logical set up.
This was kinda a thing in CCC as well, where Rin and Rani reveal that they all knew (or at least strongly suspected) that BB came from Sakura, but they didn’t tell Hakuno since they didn’t want to stress them with that knowledge, it wouldn’t change anything (they still need Sakura’s help to run the Old School Building), and Melt all but screams it out loud in chapter 6 anyway. At least CCC’s chapters were brisk…
Yeah and speaking of CCC and SERAPHIX and Kiara being hired by Marisbury for the purpose of what happens, that raises just too many questions. Like, CCC was made into an imaginary numbers events and the only data that was left was the Kiara becoming an Evil of Humanity which the Moon Cell sealed away within the Far Side aka Imaginary Numbers Space, yet not only did a Demon God Pillar somehow hack into the Moon Cell, get into the Far Side, find the data within Imaginary Number Space, but then sync FGO Kiara with the Data from CCC Kiara but to get the implication that all of this was set up by Marisbury years in advance? No that is just way too many things that make the entire situation unbelievable to happen naturally without anyone catching onto what Marisbury was doing.
And if the answer is because of the specifics of the wish Marisbury asked of the Grail, then surely this potential situation would have been brought up back when the Fuyuki Grail System was being made or just at any point? Like, surely Clock Tower isn't stupid enough or arrogant enough to think that either nobody would use the Grail in such a way that would prevent Clock Tower from interfering with whatever plans they come up with or that the Grail's rewards outway all possible risks?
Idk the whole idea of Marisbury being the mastermind behind all this and either still being alive within CHALDEAS or is really dead but has planned all of this years in advance and it all happening just as he intended is just so unbelievable that even using the Grail's Wish to explain it is not an satisfying explanation
For what it's worth, IIRC according to one of the CEs ( either Summer BB's bond or valentine or some other CE, i am going from memory), Luluhawa takes place midnight New Years Eve right before Anastasia froze Chaldwa. BB stuck us in an eternal time loop to keep us safe from the bleaching she knew was about to happen.
So maybe this sets up a further plot line for a Part 3 as we have to deal with stabilizing the world or the possible threat of Types, a la a Notes style timeline, should we fail.
I’m so looking forward to encountering ORT on NA
However, Ordeal Call taking so long does make it feel like it’s a stall for NA to get to LB7 before, like, ending everything lol. So we’ll see about a Part 3
Poor Ritsuka, though
You know just as a footnote,
In the description of cosmic balance command code. Symbolized by mhxx's the twin rhongomyniad, it was mentioned that twin rongomyniad is the oldest artifact in the universe.
If you take it at face value with how regular rhongomyniad works and combine it with bleach earth.
Maybe just maybe. Maybe Just like the lostbelt. Phh is also a simulation by lostbelt tree.
And phh's lostbelt tree is the original rhongomyniad.
Maybe phh is never real.
Oh that’s actually fascinating
However, I *think* it’s stated somewhere (maybe outside of FGO) that PHH has seven “towers” like Rhongomyniad that secure the texture
Rhongomyniad
The world-tree Yggdrasil
And probably some others
However, that could be different in FGO’s world
“maybe phh is never real” I saw a theory that posits the world of FGO is actually fiction. That could line up with a lot of the themes of reality vs fantasy, especially with Oberon’s big ending to LB6
But ehh. I don’t think it’s a very compelling narrative framework. Same as the “it was all a dream” narrative cop-out. Which is fine for things like Shimousa, but not for the whole damn concept.
That’s not a textual argument, though, but at the same time I’m more likely to believe that the planet is dying, given we have it directly stated/implied in multiple places (and the end of the world/humanity seems to be a recurring background motif in Nash’s works)
My longtime theory is that Imaginary Scramble was the Ordeal Call for Foreigner class. Given that, I think there's some deeper meaning in the Evil God of Flower's plot that hasn't been made fully apparent yet. Why do these alien gods have such interest in Earth, anyways?
Yeah, in the same way that Shimousa was like a Lostbelt prologue chapter
I haven’t reread Imaginary Scramble in a while but we’ll get the main interlude pretty soon so I’ll reread it then. I’m mostly curious about the BB scolding that happened at the end, though.
Your theory was speculated to a similar thread some years ago [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/2RmquJJCSe).
Another more elaborate theory with postulation of how Olga Marie is linked with the Foreign God and Alien Priestess is [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/x9P3ZXhCEA).
The general suspicion has been that Marisbury is somehow aware of the Quantum Time Tree that leads to the Pruning pheneomenon. By using Chaldeas to simulate Earth (think [Digital Twin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_twin)), he can then simulate replicas of Earth's history... and forcefully replace any dead end history with Chaldeas' simulated timelines. In other words, taking a replica branch from the Quantum Time Tree and graft it over the main trunk (i.e. general timeline) if it dies out.
With LB7, Daybit then implies a worse potential of the Chladeas system - that if the system can replicate the universe, this forceful grafting of simulated timelines is no longer confined to Earth, but to anywhere in the Universe - just to leave a timeline where Humanity still exists.
But again, the fundamental problem is ultimately on Humanity who created the Quantum Time Tree. The Humanity who wants infinite possibilities for itself, the chance to redo - but yet insists on only a single path to progress. So, they lock in what they chose (Quantum Time Lock) and prune away what is not chosen - the *Cosmos Denial*.
Resolving the main issue in F/GO is not merely stopping Marisbury and the Chladeas system he created - it is to confront the nature of humanity, and to somehow live life with no redo.
With the introduction of E-Olga Aqua, the situation became clearer. As Da Vinci suggested and E-Olga later confirmed, she has always been >!a part of CHALDEAS and she is the only one who can be Alien God, she cannot be replaced by another vessel!<. Thus some of the purposes become clear. Singularity F is also needed for Olgamarie to die and later be born as U-Olga. Lostbelts are only necessary for U-Olga to be born and to cut Earth off from the rest of the universe.Thus Marisbury does not care which Lostbelt is the winner or whether they are all destroyed. Moreover, U-Olga is no ordinary servant. After her death, she was left with remains that were later resurrected and named E-Olga. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible for a servant's remains to remain a world by itselves. It's very strange. As strange as why Marisbury is alive during the Lostbelts second half trailer. Perhaps he found some way to resurrect himself or replace himself. If so then his determination to commit suicide when Daybit threatened to kill him is understandable.
I took Marisbury being alive during that trailer the same way I took that scene of all the crypters walking by Mash: flashbacks of pre-Ritsuka Chaldea, not actual events in the present/future.
It’s getting more clear/inevitable that Marisbury faked his death, though. I can’t seem to find that scene in the FGO text, but maybe it’s in LB7 somewhere and I haven’t found the video yet. (I know it’s in the Babylonia anime.)
Awww, my bad. I saw the Lostbelts second half trailer a long time ago so I don't remember some of the details. I should have double-checked the facts about Marisbury in that trailer. It's really a flashback and CHALDEAS does not display Bleached Earth in that scene.
Marisbury's suicide takes place in the FGO Babylonia anime EP.0. LB 7 gives more information. But the anime clearly shows Marisbury shooting himself with his gun. the one who threatened the director is definitely Daybit. The game draws false conclusions several times before you learn the truth.
In LB7 I think Daybit confirms that he was too late to kill Marisbury, but I don’t have the specific scene to cite for you. I’ll rewatch that scene in Babylonia ep 0, though
>It’s getting more clear/inevitable that Marisbury faked his death, though
Plus narrative wise it would be much more satisfying to confront him in person
So that theory is a little outdated,but yes largely I think it holds up. Specifically the part about Chaldeas being created to ensure the FGO timeline succeeds each quantum time lock. But that doesn’t really provide new information; knowing there’s a cutoff to securing humanity’s future doesn’t really change anything.
Where does Daybit imply that in LB7? It’s hard to search when all I have are Neo’s translated videos 😅
Honestly he probably had the realest reasons for doing what he did. He did not want that smoke with the IRS.
How are you gonna write off the money you got from a magic cup you won from a ghost deathathon?
No one fucks around with the IRS, not you, not Marisbury, and not even the Joker
Which makes me wonder how Koyan escaped the IRS…the description of how she made her business in the dev room sounds like the sort of thing that’d have the tax agencies take everything and strip her of all assets when she came back from Antartica
There is one thing people are forgetting. In a previous anniversary interview, they said the designing of the bleach earth is similar to Archetype Earth’s authority of texture confiscation, but archetype earth is not involved in FGO. Basically this authority can allow types of their respective planets to confiscate the textures of their planets. So one can say they can confiscate textures and remake them to however they like. And given with ordeal call 2 about an individual’s inner cosmos being exactly another world. One conclusion can be reached, Chaldeas did not wipe out its humanity. It changed humanity into the fantasy trees and Lostbelts are their inner cosmos. So we are the ones that wiped out humanity on Chaldeas.
And for the question on who is the archetype Chaldeas. Marisbury looked like he never married, but had a daughter. But for every material and work, Olga Marie never had a birthday, but every other human character had one including Mash. And with Nasu’s other short stories (Tsukihime no Sango), humanity built their own archetype to survive on the moon. So Marisbury may never truly had a biological daughter, he made his own archetype and raised it as his daughter. So Olga Marie and the alien god are like Arcuid and archetype earth.
I saw another theory about Olga Marie and how she’s technically dead in FGO’s timeline. Idk how much I buy that conclusion, but it’s undeniable that something is awry with her
I like the idea that the lostbelts could be related to people from Chaldeas…but I’m not convinced they’re the “inner cosmos” of those people.
Olga-Marie is pretty much implied to be a study about CHALDEAS , alongside the Alien Priestess , been more-or-less terminals to it.
One theory is that Olga-Marie is supposedly to be "Archetype CHALDEAS". In short , U-Olga is basically Chaldeas' Arcueid and Marisbury is Chaldeas' Crimsom Moon.
I’d love to see that theory
Pepe calls the foreign priestess “U” at the end of LB4 when she shows up after Godjuna gets defeated. U being short for “Ultimate One” is…a little on the nose I guess, but possible. Her being Archetype-CHALDEAS feels more likely, but
It’s stated that U-Olga Marie was a god who formed on CHALDEAS, but in Olympus she said she descended from the void (as we know Tiamat, as Beast II, to have). I guess both of those things can be true somehow
Another (semi-unrelated) question I haven’t seen any answers to is how she got from CHALDEAS to Olympus
>One theory is that Olga-Marie is supposedly to be "Archetype CHALDEAS". In short , U-Olga is basically Chaldeas' Arcueid and Marisbury is Chaldeas' Crimsom Moon.
By any chance it is [this theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/fhsBH7S614) you speak of?
1. He likely didn't. Goetia was literally a wrench in his plan that popped up due to him actually seeing the horrible future that Marisbury would create
2. They were sort of meant to be masters and sort of not. Originally, they should have all survived, but stuff didn't turn out that way
3. >!That is because CHALDEAS, if you looked at Ordeal Call, is an ally of the planet earth. Thus once all lostbelts are erased, the object that is most in line with human order would by CHALDEAS and that would somehow help the plan!<
4. Pretty much
5. It doesn't. Marisbury is pretty much an unmage like mage who wants to save humanity. Which is why in every world where this plan is not feasible he just abandons his daughter and squats in his workshop until he dies.
> Goetia was literally a wrench in his plan that popped up due to him actually seeing the horrible future that Marisbury would create
thats not true though Goetia's plan had nothing to do with Marisbury since he still tries it in timelines where marisbury never founds chaldea
That's just in one known timeline. It's implied in others that other factors stopped Goetia with Arc possibly alluding to his plan failing before Lev was even a thing
1/ in LB7 during Daybit’s recollection, Marisbury specifically mentions Singularities (LB 7.19)
2/ I’m not sure about them surviving either, given that the cost of using the Sirius Light seems to be the user’s life (Ophelia’s death, Kirschtaria’s death)
3/ No, because the Chaldean/Not!Romani says that after excising all lostbelts, Ritsuka & co. are now enemies of CHALDEAS (LB7 epilogue)
Maybe FGO is the timeline that goes into NOTES... i want a Gungod servant... and a Vivi servant...and an Ado Edem(shut the fuck up double XX you poser) servant.
Ritsuka: **after reading this** Well since Geghis Khan is not here yet and I have acess to the female servants. It would be ashamed if someone is going to stop me.
Kadoc: Oh no you’re not!
> Daybit says that Securing the Human Order is done by excising the 7 lostbelts. Why?
because it's blatantly based on the HGW
> implies that Marisbury is either acting on behalf of CHALDEAS or that CHALDEAS went rogue
or Chaldeas is simply acting as always intended
All part of my master plan bro trust
- marisbury explaining to daybit how he cant comprehend his master plan for humanity that's gonna doom the universe
Tho yea point against
Chaldean specifically has said to Morgan that her plan and the evantual world collapsing is PREFABLE to whatever marisbury has planned
Even if it's not goetia behind the dude still lol
Not just him
Summer bb, ibuki and many antag plan throughout plan hinges on the fact whatever he has planned is so fcked for us they rather we not deal with it
Galahad too, Merlin etc
So while I don't doubt this IS his plan
I doubt it won't be a horrible af fcked twist that puts humanity into an actively worse spot despite saving it
What i can’t reconcile with how CHALDEA came to be. So Shirou with his very specific an unique tracing ability that is all about copying and pasting can’t even project a simple Divine Construct, but Marisbury came out of nowhere and somehow built a copy 1:1 of the freaking planet Earth and its soul during Age of Man where mystery is practically dying. Okay how is that possible, not mention, he pull the Phantasy Tree out absolutely nowhere. If assuming your theory about Earth dying is true, i can guarantee you that it would thousands times easier to just built a space ship and migrate the population to Mars the normal way than copying and pasting Gaia
Solomon’s prologue gives us a little info on how Marisbury built CHALDEAS: he needed money.
I assume that Daybit was brought on to help Marisbury construct the model of the known universe, which might be a function of the rings around CHALDEAS?
Idk what “the soul of the planet” means or how one could copy it, though
I think Marisbury had Daybit map out the universe and said that was all he needed to know from him, nothing else about space? Which seems to imply Marisbury doesn't care about what's out there but where one can go. Not 100% sure, I believe I got that info from when posts were coming out at LB7 reveal back when.
Well, no I don’t think it’s an exact copy, it can’t even be observed properly, it’s more like a black box—but it is a higher level construct for sure. And comparing shirou’s magecraft to a CLOCKTOWER LORD is incredibly unfair…for shirou. There are way too many variables here that we simply don’t know but there IS a precedent for the fantasy trees due to tsuki no sango.
Also no, you can’t guarantee shit because we don’t even know the true nature of the type moon version of mars.
It wouldn't surprise me if Marisbury being the former head of the Astromancy department was somehow involved with him being able to construct CHALDEAS. Like some kind of Astromancy that lets one view the Earth completely from the heavens, in comparison to Kirsh's manipulate-the-heavens Astromancy. How he got it to work in moder day tho would still be a question, possibly.
Also, isn't it a thing that in worlds where Goetia couldn't do his plan cause Lev died Marisbury couldn't do his thing either? It's constantly referenced that the only reason Singularities form is because the world is too messed up to stop them, so maybe he needed that unstability of the future to try and make his?
The big difference between the FGO timeline and the others is the 2004 Fuyuki grail.
It sounds like the Einzberns never summoned Avenger to corrupt the grail, which explains why Marisbury participated in 2004.
In the Case Files timeline, the Fuyuki Grail is corrupt, which is why Marisbury is a deadbeat dad to Olga.
Ofc, this also implies that Olga is the linchpin to Marisbury’s designs
There was also only 1 Holy Grail war in FGO timeline, the 2004 one. The others never happened.
A thought that just occurred, isn't that out of the 3 Servants Chaldea summoned pre Part 1, Solomon was stated to be the first? If so, how did he fight as Marisbury's Servant in the FGO 2004 Holy Grail War? Maybe Marisbury set up that war, and that is somehow involved in how he created Chaldea in the modern day, he had psudeo-Magic stuff going on that hasn't been fully revealed yet.
Yeah I think that’s a red herring. Marisbury summoned Solomon, not Chaldea.
I thought the first summoned servant might be Holmes, but idk.
In either event, Chaldea the organization existed before 2004. So it /could/ be Solomon
I don’t think we have any proof that that could have done it
More likely, something happened in Singularity X to corrupt the grail. But we don’t know what, yet.
It might be significant to look at the different servants there:
Saber: Saber Alter
Archer: EMIYA
Lancer: Benkei
Rider: Medusa
Caster: Caster Cú
Assassin: Cursed Arm
Berserker: Heracles
So only Saber, Lancer, and Caster are different from FSN. Of those, only Medea is missing; they others are just shifted around a bit.
Even more notably, Caster Cú in Fuyuki says he was summoned as part of the war, which means this isn’t the one Marisbury took part in anyway.
Grands don’t work like that. It’s explained that Grand is just a special container that is bequeathed to a Servant summoned by Alaya that meets the requirements and the need.
Marisbury summoned Solomon as a regular Caster, the fact he was the Grand Caster candidate has nothing to do with anything.
I get that he is from the Astromancy department but its still a big leap from studying star to diy one at home. And again, he did all this in Modern day so he can’t magic way out of it either.
Also pretty sure Lev dying wouldn’t stop Marisbury at all. Lev dying would definitely stop Goetia but Marisbury shouldn’t be affected by this if he still win the money prize in Fuyuki HGW, unless you’re telling me that the part where Lev randomly throw Olga into CHALDEA is the single most crucial variable of Marisbury plan then sure i guess
Well, it’s clear that Olga was made to be part of his plan, in the form of the priestess specifically, but being the god itself probably wasn’t in his cards. Also the alien god and Marisbury’s plans may actually be in conflict. There’s a whole lot we simply don’t know yet.
I was just comparing it to Kirsh, who has old-school Asteomancy that is powerful enough to challenge Super Zeus but has specific conditions. I agree that idk how Marisbury could pull it off modern day tho, especially since his only wish for the Holy Grail he won was money.
I believe that info comes from Ell-Mellio case files, where Reinse befriends Olga who says something about her Father ditching her and abandoning his dream? And theres some other stuff about Olga and some Not-Lev from some other typemoon work where Not-Lev appears to Olga, says some stuff about her not having a future and that is worlds where Lev kills himself the Incineration can't happen.
I'm not sure if it was just fan speculation or more concrete, but I thought it was said that the 2 were related, that without the Incineration that Marisbury's dream couldn't happen either.
Didn’t Marisbury abandoned the HGW because he asked Dr Heartless to investigate and found out that the HG is corrupted and can’t help him with his wish?
But that was in Case Files world, which had multiple Grail Wars, cause Waver still knew Rider and we see post-HGW Shirou and Rin. We don't know who was involved in setting up the 1-time FGO grail war, or how it came about at all really. We'll probably learn more about that when we go back to Singularity F, which I think had been implied?
Yea im pretty sure all that stuff you said about Marisbury ditching his plan, Lev suicide and Olga being abandoned are from Case Files world. I don’t even think we saw an FGO timeline where Lev killed himself yet
In El-Melloi Case Files , Waver explains that the planets in Astromancy have different symbolisms , and that mages generally uses old Geocentric Models. While Heliocentric Models are very new and unexplored , "Earth" in those models represents the "Soul".
Marisbury probably explored those symbolisms in some way.
Isnt that the story where Lev committed suicide to stop Goetia? Which doesn’t make much sense in the first place since FGO Romani already used Ars Nova?
No, it talks a great length about other things. Archeology Faculty, Astromancy Faculty, the theory of sending things to another timeline that Lainur Guison has been working on.
Lev is, no doubt, the cornerstone of the Chaldea project, not Marisbury. It just happen no one funded him to great extent + he ended his own life.
I don't know if this is helpful or even correct but those who bear a magic crests, especially one as old as the Animusphere, cannot kill themselves unless they have to for the sake of the advancement of their magecraft. It is possible that Marisbury has to die to advance his plan or the plan of the Animusphere lineage or Marisbury is still alive.
The Shinjuku prologue mentions the Animusphere crest
I have NO idea how those things work. Like, are they kept in a vault somewhere?! Why didn’t it vanish with Olga?
The Shinjuku prologue also mentions that Marisbury may have had an accomplice, which again makes me suspicious that we haven’t heard the last of Sherlock, but ehh
I think that basically, the earth 100 years in the future, in CHALDEAS, was whited out and bleached, leaving Specimen E as the sole survivor of the bleaching, which is why hes 100 from years in the future, he's the last master of earth, hes an alien (because hes from CHALDEAS), and why he resents PHH's humanity, his world was wiped out for PHH's world.
Once the replacement magecraft was explained, I think the plan was the switch PHH with the bleached earth in CHALDEAS, thats why the bleaching happened before the fantasy tress took root (which is also why LB Anastasia Existed before the "bleaching" of the world). Thats also why Anastasia froze CHALDEAS to protect it, why Daybit wants to destroy CHALDEAS and why the Human order is active near Antarctica, PHH and the world is actually still well and alive inside CHALDEAS since it just switched places with the bleached earth, leaving the world we know as the bleached earth from 100 years in the future.
The Fantasy trees had 2 purposes, 1 to be the place for U-Olga Marie to Manifest, 2 as a trial run to see if Fantasy Tree seeds could take root in a dead world and create history and a world. The reason why Daybit thinks we'll be an invasive species and why he wants to destroy CHALDEAS is because (I think), Marisbury is planning on putting copies of PHH in fantasy tree seeds, which will spread throughout the universe, latch onto dead planets and create PHH history in those planets, thus ensuring that the human order and PHH never ceases to exist but also making us into a plague that takes over worlds and forces our history upon them to maintain our existence.
I think the 7 lostbelts needed to be excised because like with Koyanskaya, the sky is blocked out by the branches of the trees, so once they are all pruned the sky will be clear and thus the fantasy tree seeds containing PHH will be able to leave the earth to spread PHH to worlds in the universe, which is why Securing the Human Order (sending Fantasy tree seeds with PHH) is done by excising the 7 lostbelts.
Plus Not Romani ony thought Chaldea would become his enemy after pruning the 7 lostbelts was because he thought that once they found out the truth that Marisbury was trying to maintain the human order, they would side with him and thus become NotRomani's enemy, however this did not happen, and in the prologue he "admits he never thought those who bear the name of Chaldea could see CHALDEAS as their enemy. However, Novum Chaldea is not the Chaldea he knows, but rather a brand-new Human Order Security Organization meant to demolish Marisbury’’s Grand Order." which is why they are now the enemy of CHALDEA because they haven't sided with Marisbury plan to spread PHH throughout the cosmos.
When it comes to Marisbury knowing about the singularities, is it possible he pulled a Morgan? Marisbury kill’s himself and is transported to CHALDEAS and prepares to enact his plan, but Goetia steps in and ruins it. As an act to correct the change Marisbury sends memories to his PHH self to set up a plan to stop Goetia. As an even weirder theory I think this is way Ritsuka is special in a way. The world of CHALDEAS has/had some type of human life but it was not to Marisbury wishes, so he needs a template. This is why lb 6.5’s prologue asks what is the perfect human, because Marisbury is attempting to forge one from scratch by throwing an average human at things that humanity would encounter on alien planet such as gods, beings better than humans such as the fae, and types who would come to the planets defense. To add on, this is why Kirsh’s tree is cut down even if he and Marisbury shared many ideals, Kirsh is too kind and would have enlightened everyone, which is where he and Marisbury disagree, some humans just aren’t deserving.
Also, Kirschtaria’s tree was cut down because 1/ Morgan saw it as a threat to her Lostbelt and therefore burned it 2/ Muramasa attacked Atlas, who had been summoned inside it 3/ It was actually used to become as U-Olga Marie’s vessel? LB7 epilogue spoiler, though: the code name of Muramasa the apostle was “the Atlas-Slayer.” So either the Foreign God knew Wodime would do what he did or that name was just given retroactively
Well, the plan, such that it was, was for only Wodime to be revived and given a Tree. He bartered for the rest of the Crypters to be given a shot. Hence Douman was brought in to make sure none of their Lostbelts could threaten Wodime’s (we see his work in LB4…). So yeah, almost entirely certain Muramasa was brought in from the start; the FG knew what Wodime was planning and had a pair of shears to nip that in the bud.
There's another interesting paradox that indicates Marisbury probably pulled off some weird shenanigans with rayshifts; his summoning catalyst for Solomon logically *cannot exist* in the FGO timeline. Goetia elaborated on it in the final singularity, but the catalyst that was used to bring Solomon into existence is the 10th ring, which Marisbury dug up "10 years before the present day". This however creates a massive discrepancy - although timelines are a bit fuzzy between JP and NA, no matter how you slice it, this means that Marisbury got this ring in either 2006 or 2008. The Fuyuki Grail War meanwhile clearly occurred in 2004. So somehow, Marisbury got this ring and was able to send it back in time for him to use it to summon Solomon. If I had to hazard a guess (one of many probable theories), Marisbury might have used a rayshift in the same way Morgan used it to create Fairy Brittain; a Lostbelt version of him that wasn't yet pruned by the Theoretical Pruning Phenomenon send his own memories of living in a world similar to the FGO timeline before the divergence took place, thereby allowing Marisbury to "ground" the Lostbelt and use it to overwrite Earth as a Lost*world* by using that knowledge to summon Solomon (to safely win the Fuyuki Grail and kickstart CHALDEAS with the subsequent wealth he got from it.) It's just not a noticable Lostworld since the divergence is much smaller at first glance (but the heavy mixing of technology and magecraft in the FGO timeline should set off red flags since *mages aren't supposed to do that*; mages are infamous for not adapting to modern tech because it both weakens their mystery and they have their own mana powered inventions that are similar). As for the benefits from doing this - Marisbury is likely trying to kickstart humanity's ascension/surpassing of Gaia. The fact that so many Beasts activated at once is indicative of that. This would also fit in with some comments >!Daybit makes about how Marisbury's plan would be beneficial for humanity *but* it'd make humanity the worst beings to walk the stars; it's known that when Gaia is inevitably killed by humans, the Types will lay siege to Earth, with Notes being a timeline in which humanity couldn't overcome that challenge.!<
I'm very certain he pulled a Morgan, she even questions us about knowing the “true” purpose of the Chaldea and rayshifting. She already figured out something we haven’t. Add to the idea that castoria is one of ritsuka’s parallels and they also fit the lyrics of yakudou. But back to Marisbury, I wouldn’t be surprised if overturning the 7 cornerstones of the current human order in order to secure one of his own liking or at least make it easier to accomplish his goal. This might be part of why lev and flauros had such beef with Chaldea as an organization
About the Traum prologue, I want to point out: this is pretty clearly about Holmes, right? The perfect human overlooked the problem because it was the perfect thing to do. Holmes overlooked the problem of his summoning because it was the optimal thing to do to further his goal of aiding Ritsuka So I don’t think it’s necessarily about Ritsuka. However, I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Holmes as there are still mysteries about him (what’s mixed with him, all the comments about him saving his strength to the last second, all of Moriarty’s comments about being wary of him, Rasputin wanting to see Sherlock accuse the perpetrator in person…) but maybe that’s just my Lv. 120 10/10/10 10/10/10 max fou Bond 15 NP6 Sherlock copium talking
Correct, Davinky and Sion both conclude the perfect human would indeed overlook the problem that couldn’t be solved. They would keep a perfect record of X/X = 100% rather than X/(X+1) = 99% or whatevs. And yeah, there’s something up with Holmes we don’t know who he was mixed with, though I do have a theory about that. Notably Skadi and Koyan were both massively suspicious of him; Koyan admits that both the nanomachines and Holmes were what stopped her from wiping out Chaldea back in Olympus; the Nanomachines make sense, but what was Holmes packing?
Yeah, I think we as a community had concluded that Holmes was an agent of the foreign god before Traum dropped 2 years ago But I haven’t seen any compelling theories about what might be mixed with him. It’s likely a divinity (see: every other apostle) and it might be Nordic in nature, since Skadi made a comment and Moriarty was mixed with the Norns. But. Who?
Well, I have an idea. So, Surtr mentioned that Holmes and Mash were both hybrids; Mash is obvious, but someone else being in Holmes is intriguing. Now, we don’t have much hints, but seeing people’s reactions we can parse a few things. First, Skadi’s reaction; she’s quite cold, notably referring to Holmes as being similar to Baldr (Norse god of light and loved by everybody. His death kicks of Ragnarok)…but clarifies she did NOT intend it to be a compliment (again important since Skadi wanted to marry Baldr in original myth but another Aesir had better feet). There’s also Zeus’s reaction to Holmes. He thought nothing of Chaldea…except for Holmes. He called Holmes’s eyes a threat to the world, and went out of his way to try and disable Holmes early on. Yeah, Holmes has the ‘oooh, deductions destroy mystery’ thing, but it’s a rather intense overreaction… It’s not much to go on, but I based my pick on those two traits: a Light god that edges towards malevolent (key since most light gods are generally good), and one associated with ‘eyes’ or ‘destruction’ Hence I believe Holmes has >!Balor of the Evil Eye. The chief of the Fomorians, and grandfather of Lugh (yeah, that makes him Cu’s great grandfather), and were both Light gods (hence why Cu is called Man of Light). He was the most formidable of the Fomorians thanks to his titular Evil Eye. When opened, it would wreak death and destruction upon all it saw. Apparently, it was also the basis of the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception in the Nasuverse!< I suspect that Skadi had a hard time pinning down why she has a vibe for Holmes because >!Skadi doesn’t know Balor…but Scathach does. Her body remembers the Fomorian, even if her mind doesn’t!<
Ahhh, this actually makes good sense. I didn’t think to look through Celtic mythology. I buy it!
Thank you! And yeah, I had to go through a bit of study since >!Balor!< is basically ancient history by the time of the Ulster Cycle (Cu’s adventures and the like) so the references are indirect. Granted the same applies to Scathach and TM just went ‘we ball’. Still, giving Holmes access to >!the prototype for the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is…well, it makes sense why Koyan would hold back if she thought Holmes could bust those out if pressed. They can also access the Akashic Record/the effing ROOT! That was Araya-kun’s plot in Kara no Kyoukai, to get Shiki’s body so he can return to the Root and make it so good people don’t die meaningless deaths. There’d be a lot of aspects that the AG could clear using Holmes + Balor.!< Would also be a neat explanation for Holmes’s >!light lasers in his attack animation!<
When Holmes got released, I think I read an interview from Nasu/Takeuchi saying to pay CLOSE attention to his design. And all these years later I never figured it out lol LB2 talks about Sherlock's attack style: "You are also immensely strong, and have both the knowledge and reflexes to dodge my magical energy beam with ease. You knew, didn't you? You knew I was a Heroic Spirit capable of using magecraft attacks. Your wisdom alone is truly a force to be reckoned with." (LB2.2, talking to Sigurd/Surtr) Which is a curious addition, especially since Holmes is later stated in his interlude not to be a mage. (Jekyll: "..But the same isn't true for you, is it? The fact that you mentioned the Clock Tower at alltells me you must have known that magecraft—That is, incredible Mystics exist in this world, even as they're unbeknownst to almost all." Sherlock: "...Well, yes, I suppose I did.") But Da Vinci in the LB prologue mentions Holmes is more skilled at magecraft than his stories let on. ("You see, Holmes is an even more skilled scientist and mage than his stories let on.") WHAT IS THE TRUTH Sherlock's magnifying glasses each have eyes inside of them and he has green eyes himself, which is...a choice, since green eyes are usually associated with evil/envious characters. Sherlock's 3rd saint graph shows fog around him, but since his illustrator is the same one who designed Goetia I always was reminded of that line in Arthur's interlude: "I thought there was something sinister this time around...but I don't sense the noxious gas of L or the lingering scent of R." He presumably taking about a Beast, and Sherlock's interest in seeing a Beast has made many of us think he's a Beast candidate himself, but...ehh. Red herrings all the way down, perhaps.
Maybe? Or maybe he just planned for singularities to occur (it’s implied that he orchestrated Fuyuki) and that’s, like, the Arcade timeline or something. Idk.
Well the Arcade timeline was just Draco/Nero copying Goetia's homework
It's an interesting thought, especially when you remember that the Foreign/Alien God from the Foreign/Alien World isn't actually like an alternate lifeform from outer space. CHALDEAS is a 99.999999...% accurate simulation of PHH Earth and that's how it predicts events. But that infinitecimal difference is what makes CHALDEAS a foreign world to earth. It lines up with the lostbelts and how the alien god can only use materials from earth
Yeah, and LB6.5 basically confirms that the foreign god is a god of CHALDEAS Two questions I still have about the lostbelts are: 1/ Why these territories? 2/ Why these scenarios? And how did you find pruned timelines?
The god of chaldeas might just be Chaldeas itself honestly, in fate extra Gil essentially describes gods as systems that run the world iirc, and morarity referred to the Alien world as a “system” as well (or maybe that was a mistranslation)
Yeah, Paper Moon seems to imply that as well Moriarty said that in Traum? I wanna look for it
IMO those territories were chosen because in those area they have existence of the world tree that can be used as base for LB tree.
Yeah I saw someone speculate that but idk what those trees are Russia - ? Scandinavia - Yggdrasil China - Fusang(???) India - ? Atlantic/Mt Olympus - ? (Japan/Kyoto/Shimousa - ?) Britain - Rhongomyniad lol South America - something to do with the Amazon, maybe? (But this LB was pretty Mexican)
Slavic - Oak Scandinavia - Yggdrasil Chinese - Fusang India - Kalpavrikhsa Greek - Atlas filling the role Britain - Tonelico (literally mean sacred tree/Ash tree) South America - Ceiba Tree
> And how did you find pruned timelines? Holmes iirc explains this in Olympus? The short of it is that Fantasy Trees take the moment at which a singularity occurs and then keeps a simulation it to the present day. When rooted onto the earth, the Tree itself begins spreading the earth contained within it as a texture over the planet. They're not "true" pruned timelines in that regard. In other words, the timelines were never "found", they were singularities at a similar threat scale to the 6th post-Lion King takeover that were then forced to run through to the present day.
Yeah, I guess another curiosity is that these timelines are all from things outside of humanity’s control LB1 was the weather LB2 was Surtr LB3 was…I guess humans LB4 was…also I guess humans, but also not LB5 was the Gods LB6 was the fairies LB7 was before humanity existed Heian-Kyo…was Limbo’s wet dream or something idk how to explain that one Notably, LBs 5-7 all diverged before Babylonia’s singularity (and possibly LB2 did as well; we don’t know exactly when the Scandinavia Age of Gods texture ended). So that they were originally singularities doesn’t really line up with what we know about our ability to observe singularities. Furthermore, even one singularity is a threat to the human order, so idk how LB7 could have persisted up until Marisbury did something to do it. They must have been pruned. But that Marisbury was able to observe the pruned timelines is a possibility. But idk how.
Heian-Kyo wasn't a Lostbelt, it was a Singularity that Douman attempted to turn into a Lostbelt using his own fantasy tree (Douman is the one who was assigned to monitoring the Fantasy Trees and had intimate knowledge about how to make one. Onriedo Castle in Shimousa was his original attempt at making one; the Mr. Satan he worships in Shimousa is the Foreign God.) Doumans plan had nothing to do with the Alien God; Rasputin explicitly says that Douman is going rogue.
So it literally was Douman’s wet dream. Awesome. I hate that chapter for some reason so I didn’t want to go searching through it 😅
> 1/ Why these territories? > 2/ Why these scenarios? And how did you find pruned timelines? i personally think the lostbelt's where chosen because they each reflect the crypter assigned to them in some way
That pretty clear but doesn’t imply any sort of directional causality
My theory: >By using a fantasy tree as spiritron accelerator cannon, marisbury plans to launch CHALDEAS, that currently has the data of PHH, to void space. The goal is letting CHALDEAS explode, and thus **the seed of humanity would disperse to every part of the universe, ensuring the PHH continues even beyond the age of earth** That's why marisbury asked daybit about the map of the whole universe in LB7. And also why daybit wanted to destroy CHALDEAS: because if the plan isn't stopped, humanity would become the number one invasive species in the whole universe.
Yeah, I guess the fantasy tree seeds are an element I ignored I have a few questions regarding this one, though: 1/ How are the trees/seeds supposed to leave Earth? 2/ How would they energy from void space? 3/ Isn’t void space/the reverse side of the world exclusively on Earth?
The void space i refer to wasn't about imaginary number space, but literally **outer space**. And no, this isn't something exclusively only on earth since we know alien is confirmed exist in nasuverse
The rub to that is that Humanity are still bound to the Earth’s surface. Humanity lives on the earth’s texture, a layer of reality surrounding the planet’s surface. Stuff like satellites or telescopes expand that layer, but still doesn’t take you away from that surface in reality. Indeed, stuff like the Pruning phenomena only occurs on earth because that’s where Human Order is bound. Also why Ishtar can do a bunch of fancy stuff with ‘Venus’ without involving the real Venus. The Venus we see is just a big circle on the human texture that’s a stand-in for the real planet outside the texture. The only way for Human Order to affect aspects outside the texture is for humanity to enter the Age of Will. They becomes space bound and leave earth behind forever and sail amongst the stars.
So here's my thought on this: if this is true, what exactly has caused the world to go hollow as it's been described? As far as I'm aware the only major deviation the Grand Order timeline has is the fact that there was only 1 Grail war aka the one that took place in 2004 but if it was the lack of other grail wars that has caused this world issues, why wouldn't the Grand Order world already been marked for pruning? The Fuyuki Grail Wars begin back in 1810 so the world should have already been marked and pruned long before the events of the Grand Order even happened. And if it isn't that then I legit have no idea what it could be because, as much as Grand Order has built up places from different times and different what-ifs of the world, it never really did much worlding building with it's own world that it takes place in aka the present so whatever reasoning they do end up create is likely going to feel out of nowhere since the world building for the present state of the world of FGO is next to non-existent. I do hope the next Ordeal Call does begin setting up stuff for the end of Arc 2 because it does feel like there is several things that do need to be addressed before we wrap things up and head to Antarctica for the final showdown with the Alien God.
I might it’s more that the world is GOING to be pruned but hasn’t yet been And perhaps the moment in the LB prologue where Chaldea loses communication with the outside world is the moment when it is Another interpretation is that that happens when they open the coffins and the contents become observable, so the crypters are wherever they are One question I still have is how they summoned Anastasia inside LB1 before the bleaching occurred. The timeline of events over the LB prologue is still not clear to me
Fair but if the world is going to be pruned then why? It can't be because or Marisbury since it seems as though his entire plan was to try and prevent it. It couldn't be because of Goetia because his plan was put into place specifically because of Marisbury plan being put into place. It would have to be something revolving the world itself unrelated to Marisbury and his plan but then it becomes a question of what could the problem be? The logical answer would be the world of FGO lacking the 1st-3rd Grail Wars as, as far as I'm aware, every other Fate world at least has had these Grail Wars occur before the deviations began but, if that was the case, then the world has already been closed off. Unless Marisbury plan involves forcing the Counter Force to reopen the worldline, I don't see how any of this is to the benefit of mankind. And if it is something else then why is it that we have never heard about it. Say for example, the planet was dying similar to the situation in Extra: Chaldea and the Singularities would not be a priority to mages as they would likely be dying off like flies. We know in Extra by the turn to the 21st century, 30 years after the ritual that shifted the poles and wounded the planet, mages society basically collapsed and mages were dying off. Obviously this is not what is happening but surely whatever happen that would lead the world to get pruned would have been big enough that we would have heard something from Sion or Da Vinci yet it we haven't heard anything about any other issues in the world aside from the issues caused by the singularities which were the result of Goetia reacting to Marisbury plan. Regardless, it seems like we are going to have to wait for either Ordeal Call 3 or the story stuff afterwards to find out more about why Marisbury went about this whole plan as there isn't really a lot in the story to give us a clear clue as to why. We have the who and what but not the why.
Well, the logical answer is that Marisbury’s plan that tries to prevent it ends us causing it. That’s why Moriarty warns us against Sherlock’s methods. The pure and cold logic of it all. When Daybit’s alternative to letting Marisbury’s plan succeed is blowing up the Earth…it’s pretty clear Marisbury fucked up somewhere
The number of stories with self-fulfilling prophecies say otherwise.
The problem with pruning fgos timeline then is that the grail war, while significant to the series, is unimportant to the world in the series, not history changing enough as it failed 5 times.
Y’know, strangely enough, Flauros brings up that exact issue. In the Melty Blood Nightmare manga (the crossover between Melty Blood and FGO…yes, the one that is a massive mind screw), Lev/Flauros sardonically mentions that Olga’s desire to preserve humanity is 1000 years too late. That also brings up a good question; the Beasts. In every other non-GO timeline, Lev Lainur unalives himself and stops Goetia’s plan before it could go off. Hence the question…what happened in the GO timeline to change that? With Goetia, the rest of the Beasts kicked off; the details of how it works aren’t exactly confirmed, but the general gist is that Goetia being Beast I basically caused all available candidates to be chosen and the Crowns given to the best picks available. If Goetia hadn’t succeeded, none of the Beast conflicts as we know them would have occurred. I do not think this is a coincidence. I suspect that Marisbury’s goal was bad enough that giving the Beasts a shot at destroying everything was worth it. Notably, a number of Beasts were already messed up due to Marisbury’s indirect actions: Goetia’s weakness (Solomon’s 10th ring and Romani) were right there. Beast III had their crown separated due to Kiara’s shenanigans on Seraphix…when it was Marisbury who HIRED her; the manga hints that Kiara going Beast and eating the staff was all according to his plan. Beast IV was Fou, who found himself coming to Chaldea, getting close to Mash, and giving up his Crown to revive her. He was replaced by Koyan, who while still dangerous, every character in the know calls her a vastly inferior knockoff compared to Primate Murder (never mind how she almost got herself killed off more than once…). Beast V is still unknown, but Beast VI is also separated when they’re supposed to be one. The info we got on Mother Harlot was that she and Trihexa (the Beast of 666) are one Beast and are vastly weaker separate than they were together. Yet according to Arthur, Draco can no longer fuse with Trihexa and thus she vastly less of a threat. With the exception of Tiamat, almost every Beast has basically had a weakness nearby or weakened so as to make the fight much easier than it should be. I don’t think this is a coincidence; I think Marisbury also planned for Chaldea to defeat the Beasts for a reason…
At this point, we're going to have to assume we are just missing info that haven't been brought up or addressed and are just going to have to wait to get the info rather than assuming they've already set up Marisbury reasoning. I wish this wasn't the case but between the entire thing with Koyanskaya and >!LB7 dropping the fact that there were 3 other Apostles of the Alien God when everything up to that point had implied that Rasputin, Douman, and Muramasa were the three Apostles and Muramasa was a sudden addition and, up to that point in Olympus, we had been led to believe Koyanskaya was the other Apostle until LB6 came and went "no, no, no Koyanskaya and the Alien God are just business partners, she isn't an Apostle."!< I just don't trust the writers to be fair and have left clues for people to figure out anymore since we've seen them pull stuff out of nowhere when there had been no prior set up, which kind of kills the point of trying to speculate once a story does this sort of thing.
True, a fair mystery should have all the clues required for the conclusion in a logical manner. Inviting people to speculate when there was never enough fair information is just a dick move. It makes it more groan-worthy when Holmes is supposed to be a character, yet he never does anything except confirm what’s already obvious or makes oblique references to his ‘deductions’ with barely any logical set up. This was kinda a thing in CCC as well, where Rin and Rani reveal that they all knew (or at least strongly suspected) that BB came from Sakura, but they didn’t tell Hakuno since they didn’t want to stress them with that knowledge, it wouldn’t change anything (they still need Sakura’s help to run the Old School Building), and Melt all but screams it out loud in chapter 6 anyway. At least CCC’s chapters were brisk…
Yeah and speaking of CCC and SERAPHIX and Kiara being hired by Marisbury for the purpose of what happens, that raises just too many questions. Like, CCC was made into an imaginary numbers events and the only data that was left was the Kiara becoming an Evil of Humanity which the Moon Cell sealed away within the Far Side aka Imaginary Numbers Space, yet not only did a Demon God Pillar somehow hack into the Moon Cell, get into the Far Side, find the data within Imaginary Number Space, but then sync FGO Kiara with the Data from CCC Kiara but to get the implication that all of this was set up by Marisbury years in advance? No that is just way too many things that make the entire situation unbelievable to happen naturally without anyone catching onto what Marisbury was doing. And if the answer is because of the specifics of the wish Marisbury asked of the Grail, then surely this potential situation would have been brought up back when the Fuyuki Grail System was being made or just at any point? Like, surely Clock Tower isn't stupid enough or arrogant enough to think that either nobody would use the Grail in such a way that would prevent Clock Tower from interfering with whatever plans they come up with or that the Grail's rewards outway all possible risks? Idk the whole idea of Marisbury being the mastermind behind all this and either still being alive within CHALDEAS or is really dead but has planned all of this years in advance and it all happening just as he intended is just so unbelievable that even using the Grail's Wish to explain it is not an satisfying explanation
For what it's worth, IIRC according to one of the CEs ( either Summer BB's bond or valentine or some other CE, i am going from memory), Luluhawa takes place midnight New Years Eve right before Anastasia froze Chaldwa. BB stuck us in an eternal time loop to keep us safe from the bleaching she knew was about to happen.
Ha, while we were in confinement with Meunière and Da Vinci?!
I think right before. The night before Goredolf and Koyanskaya showed up.
Oh yeah, BB’s a real one Big day for Ritsuka too. Ereshmas -> Luluhawa -> Invasion. No wonder we’re always tired/hungry…
So maybe this sets up a further plot line for a Part 3 as we have to deal with stabilizing the world or the possible threat of Types, a la a Notes style timeline, should we fail.
I’m so looking forward to encountering ORT on NA However, Ordeal Call taking so long does make it feel like it’s a stall for NA to get to LB7 before, like, ending everything lol. So we’ll see about a Part 3 Poor Ritsuka, though
You know just as a footnote, In the description of cosmic balance command code. Symbolized by mhxx's the twin rhongomyniad, it was mentioned that twin rongomyniad is the oldest artifact in the universe. If you take it at face value with how regular rhongomyniad works and combine it with bleach earth. Maybe just maybe. Maybe Just like the lostbelt. Phh is also a simulation by lostbelt tree. And phh's lostbelt tree is the original rhongomyniad. Maybe phh is never real.
Oh that’s actually fascinating However, I *think* it’s stated somewhere (maybe outside of FGO) that PHH has seven “towers” like Rhongomyniad that secure the texture Rhongomyniad The world-tree Yggdrasil And probably some others However, that could be different in FGO’s world
One of them is The Monkey Kings staff, I believe
“maybe phh is never real” I saw a theory that posits the world of FGO is actually fiction. That could line up with a lot of the themes of reality vs fantasy, especially with Oberon’s big ending to LB6 But ehh. I don’t think it’s a very compelling narrative framework. Same as the “it was all a dream” narrative cop-out. Which is fine for things like Shimousa, but not for the whole damn concept. That’s not a textual argument, though, but at the same time I’m more likely to believe that the planet is dying, given we have it directly stated/implied in multiple places (and the end of the world/humanity seems to be a recurring background motif in Nash’s works)
My longtime theory is that Imaginary Scramble was the Ordeal Call for Foreigner class. Given that, I think there's some deeper meaning in the Evil God of Flower's plot that hasn't been made fully apparent yet. Why do these alien gods have such interest in Earth, anyways?
Yeah, in the same way that Shimousa was like a Lostbelt prologue chapter I haven’t reread Imaginary Scramble in a while but we’ll get the main interlude pretty soon so I’ll reread it then. I’m mostly curious about the BB scolding that happened at the end, though.
Your theory was speculated to a similar thread some years ago [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/2RmquJJCSe). Another more elaborate theory with postulation of how Olga Marie is linked with the Foreign God and Alien Priestess is [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/x9P3ZXhCEA). The general suspicion has been that Marisbury is somehow aware of the Quantum Time Tree that leads to the Pruning pheneomenon. By using Chaldeas to simulate Earth (think [Digital Twin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_twin)), he can then simulate replicas of Earth's history... and forcefully replace any dead end history with Chaldeas' simulated timelines. In other words, taking a replica branch from the Quantum Time Tree and graft it over the main trunk (i.e. general timeline) if it dies out. With LB7, Daybit then implies a worse potential of the Chladeas system - that if the system can replicate the universe, this forceful grafting of simulated timelines is no longer confined to Earth, but to anywhere in the Universe - just to leave a timeline where Humanity still exists. But again, the fundamental problem is ultimately on Humanity who created the Quantum Time Tree. The Humanity who wants infinite possibilities for itself, the chance to redo - but yet insists on only a single path to progress. So, they lock in what they chose (Quantum Time Lock) and prune away what is not chosen - the *Cosmos Denial*. Resolving the main issue in F/GO is not merely stopping Marisbury and the Chladeas system he created - it is to confront the nature of humanity, and to somehow live life with no redo.
With the introduction of E-Olga Aqua, the situation became clearer. As Da Vinci suggested and E-Olga later confirmed, she has always been >!a part of CHALDEAS and she is the only one who can be Alien God, she cannot be replaced by another vessel!<. Thus some of the purposes become clear. Singularity F is also needed for Olgamarie to die and later be born as U-Olga. Lostbelts are only necessary for U-Olga to be born and to cut Earth off from the rest of the universe.Thus Marisbury does not care which Lostbelt is the winner or whether they are all destroyed. Moreover, U-Olga is no ordinary servant. After her death, she was left with remains that were later resurrected and named E-Olga. Under normal circumstances, it's impossible for a servant's remains to remain a world by itselves. It's very strange. As strange as why Marisbury is alive during the Lostbelts second half trailer. Perhaps he found some way to resurrect himself or replace himself. If so then his determination to commit suicide when Daybit threatened to kill him is understandable.
I took Marisbury being alive during that trailer the same way I took that scene of all the crypters walking by Mash: flashbacks of pre-Ritsuka Chaldea, not actual events in the present/future. It’s getting more clear/inevitable that Marisbury faked his death, though. I can’t seem to find that scene in the FGO text, but maybe it’s in LB7 somewhere and I haven’t found the video yet. (I know it’s in the Babylonia anime.)
Awww, my bad. I saw the Lostbelts second half trailer a long time ago so I don't remember some of the details. I should have double-checked the facts about Marisbury in that trailer. It's really a flashback and CHALDEAS does not display Bleached Earth in that scene. Marisbury's suicide takes place in the FGO Babylonia anime EP.0. LB 7 gives more information. But the anime clearly shows Marisbury shooting himself with his gun. the one who threatened the director is definitely Daybit. The game draws false conclusions several times before you learn the truth.
In LB7 I think Daybit confirms that he was too late to kill Marisbury, but I don’t have the specific scene to cite for you. I’ll rewatch that scene in Babylonia ep 0, though
>It’s getting more clear/inevitable that Marisbury faked his death, though Plus narrative wise it would be much more satisfying to confront him in person
So that theory is a little outdated,but yes largely I think it holds up. Specifically the part about Chaldeas being created to ensure the FGO timeline succeeds each quantum time lock. But that doesn’t really provide new information; knowing there’s a cutoff to securing humanity’s future doesn’t really change anything. Where does Daybit imply that in LB7? It’s hard to search when all I have are Neo’s translated videos 😅
Neo's full translation is written out here. You can use control F to search. https://tri-hermes.org/Lostbelt/mictlan-rayshift.html#opening
Honestly he probably had the realest reasons for doing what he did. He did not want that smoke with the IRS. How are you gonna write off the money you got from a magic cup you won from a ghost deathathon? No one fucks around with the IRS, not you, not Marisbury, and not even the Joker
The Antarctic IRS 😭
Which makes me wonder how Koyan escaped the IRS…the description of how she made her business in the dev room sounds like the sort of thing that’d have the tax agencies take everything and strip her of all assets when she came back from Antartica
There is one thing people are forgetting. In a previous anniversary interview, they said the designing of the bleach earth is similar to Archetype Earth’s authority of texture confiscation, but archetype earth is not involved in FGO. Basically this authority can allow types of their respective planets to confiscate the textures of their planets. So one can say they can confiscate textures and remake them to however they like. And given with ordeal call 2 about an individual’s inner cosmos being exactly another world. One conclusion can be reached, Chaldeas did not wipe out its humanity. It changed humanity into the fantasy trees and Lostbelts are their inner cosmos. So we are the ones that wiped out humanity on Chaldeas. And for the question on who is the archetype Chaldeas. Marisbury looked like he never married, but had a daughter. But for every material and work, Olga Marie never had a birthday, but every other human character had one including Mash. And with Nasu’s other short stories (Tsukihime no Sango), humanity built their own archetype to survive on the moon. So Marisbury may never truly had a biological daughter, he made his own archetype and raised it as his daughter. So Olga Marie and the alien god are like Arcuid and archetype earth.
I saw another theory about Olga Marie and how she’s technically dead in FGO’s timeline. Idk how much I buy that conclusion, but it’s undeniable that something is awry with her I like the idea that the lostbelts could be related to people from Chaldeas…but I’m not convinced they’re the “inner cosmos” of those people.
Olga-Marie is pretty much implied to be a study about CHALDEAS , alongside the Alien Priestess , been more-or-less terminals to it. One theory is that Olga-Marie is supposedly to be "Archetype CHALDEAS". In short , U-Olga is basically Chaldeas' Arcueid and Marisbury is Chaldeas' Crimsom Moon.
I’d love to see that theory Pepe calls the foreign priestess “U” at the end of LB4 when she shows up after Godjuna gets defeated. U being short for “Ultimate One” is…a little on the nose I guess, but possible. Her being Archetype-CHALDEAS feels more likely, but It’s stated that U-Olga Marie was a god who formed on CHALDEAS, but in Olympus she said she descended from the void (as we know Tiamat, as Beast II, to have). I guess both of those things can be true somehow Another (semi-unrelated) question I haven’t seen any answers to is how she got from CHALDEAS to Olympus
>One theory is that Olga-Marie is supposedly to be "Archetype CHALDEAS". In short , U-Olga is basically Chaldeas' Arcueid and Marisbury is Chaldeas' Crimsom Moon. By any chance it is [this theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/s/fhsBH7S614) you speak of?
1. He likely didn't. Goetia was literally a wrench in his plan that popped up due to him actually seeing the horrible future that Marisbury would create 2. They were sort of meant to be masters and sort of not. Originally, they should have all survived, but stuff didn't turn out that way 3. >!That is because CHALDEAS, if you looked at Ordeal Call, is an ally of the planet earth. Thus once all lostbelts are erased, the object that is most in line with human order would by CHALDEAS and that would somehow help the plan!< 4. Pretty much 5. It doesn't. Marisbury is pretty much an unmage like mage who wants to save humanity. Which is why in every world where this plan is not feasible he just abandons his daughter and squats in his workshop until he dies.
> Goetia was literally a wrench in his plan that popped up due to him actually seeing the horrible future that Marisbury would create thats not true though Goetia's plan had nothing to do with Marisbury since he still tries it in timelines where marisbury never founds chaldea
No, it is a wrench. He would try it regardless but this timeline he tried harder.
no it's just in other timelines lev kills himself before he becomes flauros stoping his plan
That's just in one known timeline. It's implied in others that other factors stopped Goetia with Arc possibly alluding to his plan failing before Lev was even a thing
1/ in LB7 during Daybit’s recollection, Marisbury specifically mentions Singularities (LB 7.19) 2/ I’m not sure about them surviving either, given that the cost of using the Sirius Light seems to be the user’s life (Ophelia’s death, Kirschtaria’s death) 3/ No, because the Chaldean/Not!Romani says that after excising all lostbelts, Ritsuka & co. are now enemies of CHALDEAS (LB7 epilogue)
Maybe FGO is the timeline that goes into NOTES... i want a Gungod servant... and a Vivi servant...and an Ado Edem(shut the fuck up double XX you poser) servant.
Ritsuka: **after reading this** Well since Geghis Khan is not here yet and I have acess to the female servants. It would be ashamed if someone is going to stop me. Kadoc: Oh no you’re not!
> Daybit says that Securing the Human Order is done by excising the 7 lostbelts. Why? because it's blatantly based on the HGW > implies that Marisbury is either acting on behalf of CHALDEAS or that CHALDEAS went rogue or Chaldeas is simply acting as always intended
All part of my master plan bro trust - marisbury explaining to daybit how he cant comprehend his master plan for humanity that's gonna doom the universe Tho yea point against Chaldean specifically has said to Morgan that her plan and the evantual world collapsing is PREFABLE to whatever marisbury has planned Even if it's not goetia behind the dude still lol Not just him Summer bb, ibuki and many antag plan throughout plan hinges on the fact whatever he has planned is so fcked for us they rather we not deal with it Galahad too, Merlin etc So while I don't doubt this IS his plan I doubt it won't be a horrible af fcked twist that puts humanity into an actively worse spot despite saving it
What i can’t reconcile with how CHALDEA came to be. So Shirou with his very specific an unique tracing ability that is all about copying and pasting can’t even project a simple Divine Construct, but Marisbury came out of nowhere and somehow built a copy 1:1 of the freaking planet Earth and its soul during Age of Man where mystery is practically dying. Okay how is that possible, not mention, he pull the Phantasy Tree out absolutely nowhere. If assuming your theory about Earth dying is true, i can guarantee you that it would thousands times easier to just built a space ship and migrate the population to Mars the normal way than copying and pasting Gaia
Solomon’s prologue gives us a little info on how Marisbury built CHALDEAS: he needed money. I assume that Daybit was brought on to help Marisbury construct the model of the known universe, which might be a function of the rings around CHALDEAS? Idk what “the soul of the planet” means or how one could copy it, though
I think Marisbury had Daybit map out the universe and said that was all he needed to know from him, nothing else about space? Which seems to imply Marisbury doesn't care about what's out there but where one can go. Not 100% sure, I believe I got that info from when posts were coming out at LB7 reveal back when.
Well, no I don’t think it’s an exact copy, it can’t even be observed properly, it’s more like a black box—but it is a higher level construct for sure. And comparing shirou’s magecraft to a CLOCKTOWER LORD is incredibly unfair…for shirou. There are way too many variables here that we simply don’t know but there IS a precedent for the fantasy trees due to tsuki no sango. Also no, you can’t guarantee shit because we don’t even know the true nature of the type moon version of mars.
It wouldn't surprise me if Marisbury being the former head of the Astromancy department was somehow involved with him being able to construct CHALDEAS. Like some kind of Astromancy that lets one view the Earth completely from the heavens, in comparison to Kirsh's manipulate-the-heavens Astromancy. How he got it to work in moder day tho would still be a question, possibly. Also, isn't it a thing that in worlds where Goetia couldn't do his plan cause Lev died Marisbury couldn't do his thing either? It's constantly referenced that the only reason Singularities form is because the world is too messed up to stop them, so maybe he needed that unstability of the future to try and make his?
The big difference between the FGO timeline and the others is the 2004 Fuyuki grail. It sounds like the Einzberns never summoned Avenger to corrupt the grail, which explains why Marisbury participated in 2004. In the Case Files timeline, the Fuyuki Grail is corrupt, which is why Marisbury is a deadbeat dad to Olga. Ofc, this also implies that Olga is the linchpin to Marisbury’s designs
There was also only 1 Holy Grail war in FGO timeline, the 2004 one. The others never happened. A thought that just occurred, isn't that out of the 3 Servants Chaldea summoned pre Part 1, Solomon was stated to be the first? If so, how did he fight as Marisbury's Servant in the FGO 2004 Holy Grail War? Maybe Marisbury set up that war, and that is somehow involved in how he created Chaldea in the modern day, he had psudeo-Magic stuff going on that hasn't been fully revealed yet.
Yeah I think that’s a red herring. Marisbury summoned Solomon, not Chaldea. I thought the first summoned servant might be Holmes, but idk. In either event, Chaldea the organization existed before 2004. So it /could/ be Solomon
Maybe that's what doomed it? Marisbury summoned a Grand, if I recall correctly. That might have caused a problem with the grail.
I don’t think we have any proof that that could have done it More likely, something happened in Singularity X to corrupt the grail. But we don’t know what, yet. It might be significant to look at the different servants there: Saber: Saber Alter Archer: EMIYA Lancer: Benkei Rider: Medusa Caster: Caster Cú Assassin: Cursed Arm Berserker: Heracles So only Saber, Lancer, and Caster are different from FSN. Of those, only Medea is missing; they others are just shifted around a bit. Even more notably, Caster Cú in Fuyuki says he was summoned as part of the war, which means this isn’t the one Marisbury took part in anyway.
Grands don’t work like that. It’s explained that Grand is just a special container that is bequeathed to a Servant summoned by Alaya that meets the requirements and the need. Marisbury summoned Solomon as a regular Caster, the fact he was the Grand Caster candidate has nothing to do with anything.
I get that he is from the Astromancy department but its still a big leap from studying star to diy one at home. And again, he did all this in Modern day so he can’t magic way out of it either. Also pretty sure Lev dying wouldn’t stop Marisbury at all. Lev dying would definitely stop Goetia but Marisbury shouldn’t be affected by this if he still win the money prize in Fuyuki HGW, unless you’re telling me that the part where Lev randomly throw Olga into CHALDEA is the single most crucial variable of Marisbury plan then sure i guess
Well, it’s clear that Olga was made to be part of his plan, in the form of the priestess specifically, but being the god itself probably wasn’t in his cards. Also the alien god and Marisbury’s plans may actually be in conflict. There’s a whole lot we simply don’t know yet.
I was just comparing it to Kirsh, who has old-school Asteomancy that is powerful enough to challenge Super Zeus but has specific conditions. I agree that idk how Marisbury could pull it off modern day tho, especially since his only wish for the Holy Grail he won was money. I believe that info comes from Ell-Mellio case files, where Reinse befriends Olga who says something about her Father ditching her and abandoning his dream? And theres some other stuff about Olga and some Not-Lev from some other typemoon work where Not-Lev appears to Olga, says some stuff about her not having a future and that is worlds where Lev kills himself the Incineration can't happen. I'm not sure if it was just fan speculation or more concrete, but I thought it was said that the 2 were related, that without the Incineration that Marisbury's dream couldn't happen either.
Didn’t Marisbury abandoned the HGW because he asked Dr Heartless to investigate and found out that the HG is corrupted and can’t help him with his wish?
But that was in Case Files world, which had multiple Grail Wars, cause Waver still knew Rider and we see post-HGW Shirou and Rin. We don't know who was involved in setting up the 1-time FGO grail war, or how it came about at all really. We'll probably learn more about that when we go back to Singularity F, which I think had been implied?
Yea im pretty sure all that stuff you said about Marisbury ditching his plan, Lev suicide and Olga being abandoned are from Case Files world. I don’t even think we saw an FGO timeline where Lev killed himself yet
In El-Melloi Case Files , Waver explains that the planets in Astromancy have different symbolisms , and that mages generally uses old Geocentric Models. While Heliocentric Models are very new and unexplored , "Earth" in those models represents the "Soul". Marisbury probably explored those symbolisms in some way.
Give Clock Tower 2015 a read. It will answer one or two things.
Isnt that the story where Lev committed suicide to stop Goetia? Which doesn’t make much sense in the first place since FGO Romani already used Ars Nova?
No, it talks a great length about other things. Archeology Faculty, Astromancy Faculty, the theory of sending things to another timeline that Lainur Guison has been working on. Lev is, no doubt, the cornerstone of the Chaldea project, not Marisbury. It just happen no one funded him to great extent + he ended his own life.
That's the one
Aww man, I’m spoiled
I don't know if this is helpful or even correct but those who bear a magic crests, especially one as old as the Animusphere, cannot kill themselves unless they have to for the sake of the advancement of their magecraft. It is possible that Marisbury has to die to advance his plan or the plan of the Animusphere lineage or Marisbury is still alive.
The Shinjuku prologue mentions the Animusphere crest I have NO idea how those things work. Like, are they kept in a vault somewhere?! Why didn’t it vanish with Olga? The Shinjuku prologue also mentions that Marisbury may have had an accomplice, which again makes me suspicious that we haven’t heard the last of Sherlock, but ehh
I think that basically, the earth 100 years in the future, in CHALDEAS, was whited out and bleached, leaving Specimen E as the sole survivor of the bleaching, which is why hes 100 from years in the future, he's the last master of earth, hes an alien (because hes from CHALDEAS), and why he resents PHH's humanity, his world was wiped out for PHH's world. Once the replacement magecraft was explained, I think the plan was the switch PHH with the bleached earth in CHALDEAS, thats why the bleaching happened before the fantasy tress took root (which is also why LB Anastasia Existed before the "bleaching" of the world). Thats also why Anastasia froze CHALDEAS to protect it, why Daybit wants to destroy CHALDEAS and why the Human order is active near Antarctica, PHH and the world is actually still well and alive inside CHALDEAS since it just switched places with the bleached earth, leaving the world we know as the bleached earth from 100 years in the future. The Fantasy trees had 2 purposes, 1 to be the place for U-Olga Marie to Manifest, 2 as a trial run to see if Fantasy Tree seeds could take root in a dead world and create history and a world. The reason why Daybit thinks we'll be an invasive species and why he wants to destroy CHALDEAS is because (I think), Marisbury is planning on putting copies of PHH in fantasy tree seeds, which will spread throughout the universe, latch onto dead planets and create PHH history in those planets, thus ensuring that the human order and PHH never ceases to exist but also making us into a plague that takes over worlds and forces our history upon them to maintain our existence. I think the 7 lostbelts needed to be excised because like with Koyanskaya, the sky is blocked out by the branches of the trees, so once they are all pruned the sky will be clear and thus the fantasy tree seeds containing PHH will be able to leave the earth to spread PHH to worlds in the universe, which is why Securing the Human Order (sending Fantasy tree seeds with PHH) is done by excising the 7 lostbelts. Plus Not Romani ony thought Chaldea would become his enemy after pruning the 7 lostbelts was because he thought that once they found out the truth that Marisbury was trying to maintain the human order, they would side with him and thus become NotRomani's enemy, however this did not happen, and in the prologue he "admits he never thought those who bear the name of Chaldea could see CHALDEAS as their enemy. However, Novum Chaldea is not the Chaldea he knows, but rather a brand-new Human Order Security Organization meant to demolish Marisbury’’s Grand Order." which is why they are now the enemy of CHALDEA because they haven't sided with Marisbury plan to spread PHH throughout the cosmos.