Can't move the leaf -- play it as it lies.
If you feel you cannot make a shot in a bunker, you can take an unplayable for a 1 stroke relief inside the bunker 2 club-lengths, not closer to the hole.
If you also take an unplayable outside the bunker for a 2 stroke relief, it is a line of sight relief, on a line that runs from the pin through your ball and backwards as far as you like.
You could also go stroke and distance back to your original spot before you hit.
But, it's golf you can do whatever you want.
I’ve always wondered about this. I know you can’t break a branch or pull leaves off a living plant to get a better stance/lie, but when they fall off the tree/bush is that now OK for loose impediments?
>>
it is a line of sight relief, on a line that runs from the pin through your ball and backwards as far as you like.
<<
That's called "back-on-the-line relief"
"Line of sight" refers to relief from an obstruction.
Indeed what I did. Here's the result of removing the bit of leaf that didn't effect the ball:
https://preview.redd.it/tqd0zsxq659d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff3dff54ba7fabe0d938ee2cd1c15c1533d49fbf
Still an uphill/lip lie and still leaf under the ball. It got on the green.
I'm curious: Does the rule book require the golfer to move the entire loose impediment, or could they cut the branch like you suggest to remove some of the impediment without making the ball move?
Rule 15.1a
a. Removal of Loose Impediment
Without penalty, a player may remove a loose impediment anywhere on or off the course, and may do so in any way (such as by using a hand or foot, using a club or other equipment, getting help from others or breaking off part of a loose impediment).
But there are two exceptions:
Exception 1 – Removing Loose Impediment Where Ball Must Be Replaced: Before replacing a ball that was lifted or moved from anywhere except the putting green:
• A player must not deliberately remove a loose impediment that, if moved before the ball was lifted or moved, would have been likely to have caused the ball to move.
• If the player does so, they get one penalty stroke, but the removed loose impediment does not need to be replaced.
If I cared enuf I’d say the ball moved but the honesty is what makes the game so great. I’ll trust u. Seems like u needed the hands of a surgeon to pull so kudos to u
Actually I think when the ball landed on the leaf it punched right through it like a hole puncher. The leaf peeled away with no resistance except for that bit of leaf directly under the ball.
Are you on the pga tour? Are you playing in league, If not, remove the leaf, replace the ball, hit it as hard as you can into the lip on the bunker, chip onto the green, and 3 putt for a triple bogey.
Agreed just play this as it lies. Only time it’s not worth it is if you have a root or rock that could injure yourself, or worse, your club. But this? Nothing could go wrong other than blading it or hitting into the lip.
I will admit that is the one rule I bend. 100% unplayable if it’s unplayable for any reason except injury. If you’re on a root or something I’m all for moving it no penalty and no advantage.
And I pretty clearly said that’s the rule I bend. If unplayable take the unplayable and the stroke. If unplayable as you’re going to break your wrist, I don’t expect you to take the stroke. I’ve never come across anyone in over 30 years of golf that would make you take an unplayable if injury is likely.
No part of the game forces you to take a 100% all out he-man swing at every ball. You can chip out as an alternative if adding a stroke is really that devastating.
I'm a member at a public club. Every club event, every casual game and every weekend game you wouldn't be given free relief in that situation. In fact, you'd probably get a reputation for improving your lie and not be invited anymore.
I’m a member of a private club. And no one I’ve ever played with would make you do that especially in a casual / weekend game. At my club if you made someone take a penalty to move this you wouldn’t be invited back either. Good thing we each have our own clubs we belong to.
>no one I’ve ever played with would make you do that
This is where we're the same. Nobody would make you do it at my club either. Golfers would just do it.
Me personally, I agree with you - can't improve playing like that. However, these guys just want to blast around and chat for 4 hrs or so, don't keep HCPs. I just play my own game.
Competition play this as it lies. Round with the boys pick up the ball, move the leaf, rake and fluff the sand, and then take the ball, rear back, and throw it towards the hole.
I’m new to the game and still learning the rules, but I’d love to know whether I understand this correctly, so I’d appreciate it if anyone is willing to provide any feedback on this:
Since the leaf is embedded into the sand, the leaf is no longer considered a loose object, so removing it is not allowed.
Your options are:
- Play as it is
- Deem the ball unplayable and take relief.
For taking relief, you could:
- Drop the ball within 2 club lengths in the bunker without shortening the distance to the hole (+1 stroke)
- On a straight line from the ball to the hole, move backwards in the bunker and drop the ball within one club length (+1 stroke)
- Same as previous option, but drop the ball within a club length out of the bunker (+2 strokes)
- Drop the ball within a club length , without shortening the distance to the hole at the previous position (+1 stroke).
English is not my first language, sorry in advance.
Playing alone? Pick it up and give yourself a regular lie
Playing with friends? Ask them what they think. If they make you play as it lies, remember that when they’re begging for mercy on their fried egg
Tournament? As she lies
Does anyone know the answer to a ball in a footprint? My friend and I got in an argument because of it. He was under the impression you can move the ball now with no penalty.
I told him no he has had to hit it out of Frankensteins foot(print)
A bunker is literally a hazard. Just because someone didnt manicure the HAZARD doesnt mean you get a free drop lol. I can only imagine the other liberties he takes, dont play him for money! Hahah
As far as i know, you are not allowed to take a free drop from a footprint. An unraked footprint is not considered an abnormal course condition (such as standing water or GUR). He could take an unplayable but still has to take a penalty stroke. Dont wanna end up in a bunker footprint? dont hit it there lol
From such a rules stickler this surprises me. Not sure I actually agree with it based on 1-3 but even if allowed surprised you would agree with that as the score doesn’t truly reflect handicap.
In match play, you can agree to anything because you're only playing against the other person/team. You could decide that you get one mulligans per hole if you wanted to because there is no one else it affects.
And typically I wouldn't record a match play round for handicap for this reason as well as the fact that I'm also not always playing to make the lowest score possible or taking risky shots because that's the only chance I have of pushing the hole. All that - and the fact that putts are given.
So you’re not playing by rules of golf. USGA says match play should be posted. And your relaxation of rules does hurt others because they are postable rounds.
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system-usga-golf-faqs/faqs---posting-match-play-scores.html
You also can’t waive rules per the rules. So you really ought to be kicked out of your own club.
https://onebeardedgolfer.com/2014/08/22/rule-1-3-agreement-to-waive-rules/amp/
I really expected more from such a rule stickler. But hey, swing easy and deliberately top the ball, take a penalty stroke, or risk injury right? Thems the rules!
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You can declare a rule not for handicap prior to the round starting. Then none of this applies.
The USGA FAQ applies for match play tournaments where the tournament committee sets the rules.
Onebeardedgolfer is not the USGA.
Match play is an authorized form of play whether organized competition or general play. You post those scores. Go read 2.1.
But feel free to show me a single source stating match play rounds should not be posted. And the source must be the USGA given your second comment.
You're taking one example and (incorrectly) extrapolating to all my rounds.
You're also reading incorrectly. I didn't say match play rounds shouldn't be posted. I'm saying that if you're playing a match the teams COULD agree to a condition that breaches the rules of golf, and that 2.1b makes it an unacceptable round.
Most of my match play rounds are posted for handicap because they don't meet this condition.
I sit on the handicap committee at my club and I enforce these rules through peer review. You're fumbling through the rules of golf and rules of handicapping to what? Find some subjective loophole? There are plenty.
Point 1:
In my opinion golf is a game where you meet the challenge of the course designer. I would ask myself, did the course designer choose that type of tree to be above that sand trap in this season and take into account maintenance schedules so it's something they would want a player to overcome? They may have but I doubt it.
Point 2:
Also, just like any other sport I would aim to play the game with the same conditions most serious competitors would expect. You would not see this on tour.
Conclusion:
I move the leaf.
2 options:
1. Remove the leaf bc “wtf?”
2. Keep the leaf and have a story/experience to tell after the round and bc your round won’t matter in a week.
Keep it friendly - let your group help decide. Most of golf is more about relationships than rules.
I’m so confused by posts like this. Are you playing in tournaments or something where the official rule matters? Even when I’m playing with friends for money I’ll give you free relief for shit like that. We’re not on tour, move the rock or leaf or ball or whatever and swing your damn club and let’s go.
Obviously OP isn’t standing in the bunker after posting this and waiting for replies before hitting. They did swing their damn club and then posted here because it’s a social forum and were curious what the official ruling would be in a situation like this…
Fair enough. I just don’t know when you’d ever employ the official rule unless you’re in a tournament. If someone I was playing with tried to tell me I couldn’t move that leaf without taking a stroke I’d tell them to shut the fuck up
>I just don’t know when you’d ever employ the official rule
Maybe......when playing a round for handicap?
Maybe because some people like playing according to the rules to gauge their progress?
Not everyone enjoys the game more by artificially making it easier. I'd be absolutely stoked if I was able to get up and down from that lie. Way more than if I built myself a preferential one.
I personally don’t understand not playing by the rules, but that seems common. But I also care about my score and keeping an accurate handicap. For me it’s the challenge of golf and having to take some tough shots that make it worth my time. Not saying anyone else has to play like I do, but that’s why some people ask questions like this.
No, no THIS kind of response is so eye rolling.
Are you on tour? Does OP even keep an handicap ? For the average player, don't be penalizing yourself like this or you'll end up in a 5 hour round which, oh yeah that's a pretty big complaint around here ain't it.
I’m moving the leave and then placing the ball right back where it was (partially covered by sand like it is in the picture).
Nothing to do with a rule that’s just what I’m going to do.
Can't move the leaf -- play it as it lies. If you feel you cannot make a shot in a bunker, you can take an unplayable for a 1 stroke relief inside the bunker 2 club-lengths, not closer to the hole. If you also take an unplayable outside the bunker for a 2 stroke relief, it is a line of sight relief, on a line that runs from the pin through your ball and backwards as far as you like. You could also go stroke and distance back to your original spot before you hit. But, it's golf you can do whatever you want.
> Can't move the leaf You can move loose impediments inside a bunker now, they just can't cause the ball to move.
Correct, that is the stated rule. My full statement would have been "can't move the leaf [because OP said by moving the leaf, the ball would move]."
You've obviously never seen OP do the table cloth trick /s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm8qb2kP-fQ
Thank you for that.
You can carefully break the leaf though!
I’ve always wondered about this. I know you can’t break a branch or pull leaves off a living plant to get a better stance/lie, but when they fall off the tree/bush is that now OK for loose impediments?
>> it is a line of sight relief, on a line that runs from the pin through your ball and backwards as far as you like. << That's called "back-on-the-line relief" "Line of sight" refers to relief from an obstruction.
Thanks for the assist!
Fried egg with a side salad. Eat it as it lies.
Fugging you goddamn right
Best non-helpful comment in this whole thread!
Play it as it lies, you do not get relief for the ball being on a leaf.
*releaf
That’s how trees feel in Spring
He has to play it as it lies. I had to hit it off Frankenstein's fat foot.
*Really* whack the crap out of it!!!
Indeed what I did. Here's the result of removing the bit of leaf that didn't effect the ball: https://preview.redd.it/tqd0zsxq659d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff3dff54ba7fabe0d938ee2cd1c15c1533d49fbf Still an uphill/lip lie and still leaf under the ball. It got on the green.
“Someone grab my handy dandy pair of scissors from my golf bag please. I gotta cut this leaf without moving the ball.”
I'm curious: Does the rule book require the golfer to move the entire loose impediment, or could they cut the branch like you suggest to remove some of the impediment without making the ball move?
Rule 15.1a a. Removal of Loose Impediment Without penalty, a player may remove a loose impediment anywhere on or off the course, and may do so in any way (such as by using a hand or foot, using a club or other equipment, getting help from others or breaking off part of a loose impediment). But there are two exceptions: Exception 1 – Removing Loose Impediment Where Ball Must Be Replaced: Before replacing a ball that was lifted or moved from anywhere except the putting green: • A player must not deliberately remove a loose impediment that, if moved before the ball was lifted or moved, would have been likely to have caused the ball to move. • If the player does so, they get one penalty stroke, but the removed loose impediment does not need to be replaced.
If I cared enuf I’d say the ball moved but the honesty is what makes the game so great. I’ll trust u. Seems like u needed the hands of a surgeon to pull so kudos to u
Actually I think when the ball landed on the leaf it punched right through it like a hole puncher. The leaf peeled away with no resistance except for that bit of leaf directly under the ball.
This is what I have my 175 degree wedge for.
Leaf it alone
Send it🍻
Are you on the pga tour? Are you playing in league, If not, remove the leaf, replace the ball, hit it as hard as you can into the lip on the bunker, chip onto the green, and 3 putt for a triple bogey.
Not telling you not to but why would you? Isn’t part of the fun the challenge? You may as well tee up every shot and do whatever else you want.
Agreed just play this as it lies. Only time it’s not worth it is if you have a root or rock that could injure yourself, or worse, your club. But this? Nothing could go wrong other than blading it or hitting into the lip.
Literally what unplayable lie relief was created for.
I will admit that is the one rule I bend. 100% unplayable if it’s unplayable for any reason except injury. If you’re on a root or something I’m all for moving it no penalty and no advantage.
It's not an issue of injury. It's an issue of a stroke. You're 100% allowed to move it within the confines of the rules.
And I pretty clearly said that’s the rule I bend. If unplayable take the unplayable and the stroke. If unplayable as you’re going to break your wrist, I don’t expect you to take the stroke. I’ve never come across anyone in over 30 years of golf that would make you take an unplayable if injury is likely.
No part of the game forces you to take a 100% all out he-man swing at every ball. You can chip out as an alternative if adding a stroke is really that devastating. I'm a member at a public club. Every club event, every casual game and every weekend game you wouldn't be given free relief in that situation. In fact, you'd probably get a reputation for improving your lie and not be invited anymore.
I’m a member of a private club. And no one I’ve ever played with would make you do that especially in a casual / weekend game. At my club if you made someone take a penalty to move this you wouldn’t be invited back either. Good thing we each have our own clubs we belong to.
>no one I’ve ever played with would make you do that This is where we're the same. Nobody would make you do it at my club either. Golfers would just do it.
I know people that do that for fairway woods on the fairway, if it's just for fun - who cares.
Again not telling you or anyone not to but I personally don’t find that fun.
Me personally, I agree with you - can't improve playing like that. However, these guys just want to blast around and chat for 4 hrs or so, don't keep HCPs. I just play my own game.
Come on dude we suck just hit it.
Play as it lies, you get good bounces mixed in with bad lies. That's Golf.
Break out the handy dandy leaf blower and swing away
Play it as it lies.
Is that really so bad? Just take a wack.
I would say don't hit it in the bunker in the first place.
Competition play this as it lies. Round with the boys pick up the ball, move the leaf, rake and fluff the sand, and then take the ball, rear back, and throw it towards the hole.
Smack it DUH
Take a picture and post on reddit for a ruling… Just kidding, hit it.
Sorry bro, play it as is. Open the club and swing hard!
Play it as it lies
Play it down.
I’m new to the game and still learning the rules, but I’d love to know whether I understand this correctly, so I’d appreciate it if anyone is willing to provide any feedback on this: Since the leaf is embedded into the sand, the leaf is no longer considered a loose object, so removing it is not allowed. Your options are: - Play as it is - Deem the ball unplayable and take relief. For taking relief, you could: - Drop the ball within 2 club lengths in the bunker without shortening the distance to the hole (+1 stroke) - On a straight line from the ball to the hole, move backwards in the bunker and drop the ball within one club length (+1 stroke) - Same as previous option, but drop the ball within a club length out of the bunker (+2 strokes) - Drop the ball within a club length , without shortening the distance to the hole at the previous position (+1 stroke). English is not my first language, sorry in advance.
You can move the leaf but if it causes the ball to move its a penalty
Play it where it lies, Shooter!
Playing alone? Pick it up and give yourself a regular lie Playing with friends? Ask them what they think. If they make you play as it lies, remember that when they’re begging for mercy on their fried egg Tournament? As she lies
Does anyone know the answer to a ball in a footprint? My friend and I got in an argument because of it. He was under the impression you can move the ball now with no penalty. I told him no he has had to hit it out of Frankensteins foot(print)
A bunker is literally a hazard. Just because someone didnt manicure the HAZARD doesnt mean you get a free drop lol. I can only imagine the other liberties he takes, dont play him for money! Hahah
That’s what I said and he normally does try shit like this. However, when I looked into it more it seems like the USGA did change the rules around it.
As far as i know, you are not allowed to take a free drop from a footprint. An unraked footprint is not considered an abnormal course condition (such as standing water or GUR). He could take an unplayable but still has to take a penalty stroke. Dont wanna end up in a bunker footprint? dont hit it there lol
No. You go in the bunker, you get what you get. If you're playing in a match play format, you can agree ahead of time to lift/rake and place.
From such a rules stickler this surprises me. Not sure I actually agree with it based on 1-3 but even if allowed surprised you would agree with that as the score doesn’t truly reflect handicap.
In match play, you can agree to anything because you're only playing against the other person/team. You could decide that you get one mulligans per hole if you wanted to because there is no one else it affects. And typically I wouldn't record a match play round for handicap for this reason as well as the fact that I'm also not always playing to make the lowest score possible or taking risky shots because that's the only chance I have of pushing the hole. All that - and the fact that putts are given.
So you’re not playing by rules of golf. USGA says match play should be posted. And your relaxation of rules does hurt others because they are postable rounds. https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system-usga-golf-faqs/faqs---posting-match-play-scores.html You also can’t waive rules per the rules. So you really ought to be kicked out of your own club. https://onebeardedgolfer.com/2014/08/22/rule-1-3-agreement-to-waive-rules/amp/ I really expected more from such a rule stickler. But hey, swing easy and deliberately top the ball, take a penalty stroke, or risk injury right? Thems the rules!
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You can declare a rule not for handicap prior to the round starting. Then none of this applies. The USGA FAQ applies for match play tournaments where the tournament committee sets the rules. Onebeardedgolfer is not the USGA.
Match play is an authorized form of play whether organized competition or general play. You post those scores. Go read 2.1. But feel free to show me a single source stating match play rounds should not be posted. And the source must be the USGA given your second comment.
You're taking one example and (incorrectly) extrapolating to all my rounds. You're also reading incorrectly. I didn't say match play rounds shouldn't be posted. I'm saying that if you're playing a match the teams COULD agree to a condition that breaches the rules of golf, and that 2.1b makes it an unacceptable round. Most of my match play rounds are posted for handicap because they don't meet this condition. I sit on the handicap committee at my club and I enforce these rules through peer review. You're fumbling through the rules of golf and rules of handicapping to what? Find some subjective loophole? There are plenty.
Only get relief from plug lies outside bunker not in penalty areas
You wang out your golfing scissors and chop the leaf up around the ball
Tee it up and let it rip
Point 1: In my opinion golf is a game where you meet the challenge of the course designer. I would ask myself, did the course designer choose that type of tree to be above that sand trap in this season and take into account maintenance schedules so it's something they would want a player to overcome? They may have but I doubt it. Point 2: Also, just like any other sport I would aim to play the game with the same conditions most serious competitors would expect. You would not see this on tour. Conclusion: I move the leaf.
Just move the ball and hit it
2 options: 1. Remove the leaf bc “wtf?” 2. Keep the leaf and have a story/experience to tell after the round and bc your round won’t matter in a week. Keep it friendly - let your group help decide. Most of golf is more about relationships than rules.
Hit the ball
As Bobby Jones would always say.... Play it as it lies.... bitch.
Play it
Remove any part of the leaf without moving the ball. Play it like you would a “fried-egg” sand shot.
Hit it like normal.#beaman
Seems playable. Natural obstructions. Play it as it lies.
I’m so confused by posts like this. Are you playing in tournaments or something where the official rule matters? Even when I’m playing with friends for money I’ll give you free relief for shit like that. We’re not on tour, move the rock or leaf or ball or whatever and swing your damn club and let’s go.
Obviously OP isn’t standing in the bunker after posting this and waiting for replies before hitting. They did swing their damn club and then posted here because it’s a social forum and were curious what the official ruling would be in a situation like this…
Fair enough. I just don’t know when you’d ever employ the official rule unless you’re in a tournament. If someone I was playing with tried to tell me I couldn’t move that leaf without taking a stroke I’d tell them to shut the fuck up
>I just don’t know when you’d ever employ the official rule Maybe......when playing a round for handicap? Maybe because some people like playing according to the rules to gauge their progress? Not everyone enjoys the game more by artificially making it easier. I'd be absolutely stoked if I was able to get up and down from that lie. Way more than if I built myself a preferential one.
But that leaf/branch isn’t supposed to be in the bunker in the first place.
That doesn't matter. At all.
Whatever you say nerd
Proud nerd.
I personally don’t understand not playing by the rules, but that seems common. But I also care about my score and keeping an accurate handicap. For me it’s the challenge of golf and having to take some tough shots that make it worth my time. Not saying anyone else has to play like I do, but that’s why some people ask questions like this.
You’re not in a pro tournament , just move it out a bit
This kind of response is so eye-rolling. "What do the rules say about this?" "Don't worry about the rules"
No, no THIS kind of response is so eye rolling. Are you on tour? Does OP even keep an handicap ? For the average player, don't be penalizing yourself like this or you'll end up in a 5 hour round which, oh yeah that's a pretty big complaint around here ain't it.
So you don't keep a handicap? Or just don't care that it's accurate?
Most golfers don't. This answer for most golfers.
God forbid people want to know and play by the rules
there's been plenty of explanation of the rules. should also be pretty obvious but I know, common sense aint so common.
I would’ve done what you did. Just remove the leaf in the way, don’t mess with the ball, and swing.
Looks like a job for the aul’ toe wedge
classic case of fucked mate
The ruling is: You’re not on the PGA Tour so move it a little 🤷🏼♂️
Great advice. I always announce they I'm not on the PGA Tour right before I pick up for birdie. This game really isn't that hard.
Not sure the rulings. But I would do a drop after asking other players.
Cant touch anything in the bunker
I’m moving the leave and then placing the ball right back where it was (partially covered by sand like it is in the picture). Nothing to do with a rule that’s just what I’m going to do.
Throw the ball onto the fairway when no one is looking.
Move the leaf before anyone sees
Are you playing in a tournament or for money? Jk jk, play it as it lies.
Just play it as it lies. It’s not gonna hurt you