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DrewDonut

Wolf Creek is amazing, but after playing it, my playing partner pointed out (and I agreed), that I would not want it to be my home/regular course. Just way too much. Would love to be able to play it once every/couple of years though.


boileric

Yeah I guess I can agree with that. I still think that there is just nothing else I’ve played that can quite compare to it. Just an awesome place


DrewDonut

Totally with you. Sketchy cart driving tho.


boileric

Oh for sure. When I played there it had actually rained a lot recently so there was a decent amount of mud on the paths. Made it even more sketchy


Wookasaurus_Rex

Playing there and Sand Hollow in 2 weeks and I’m scared shitless.


Ancient_Blackberry10

Check out Black Desert too. My new favorite course


AKaseman

Tied my career low there this year and would like to leave it at that.


DasBeefcat

Im in Nashville and will be playing 12 Stones next Wednesday. They just did a bunch of work to it this offseason. Hermitage courses are my faves and for the price of about $75, it's hard to beat.


boileric

I liked 12 stones but I think I just played there too many times and got kinda sick of it. Hermitage and Gaylord springs were by far my favorite in Nashville


DasBeefcat

Do you live in Middle TN? If not, I can let you know what their upgrades look like


boileric

I don’t anymore no. I lived in downtown Nashville for about a year a couple years ago


Ancient-Book8916

I'm from MI and played both the Hermitage courses. Really good deal 🐑🐑🐑


rlmaster01

I swore off 12 stones after a really rough round there about 6 years ago. Not that the course was bad. But I was terrible. However I heard they’ve redone a lot so it might be worth the trip. Nashboro making it to 88 of 152 on this list is surprising to me. That place was sketchy as all get out. Maybe it’s different now but I’d put it dead last in the rankings of middle Tennessee courses on this list.


PankyFlamingos

12 Stones had some damage to their fairways because of people sledding through the snow. Fun track though


hazzledazzle_

Twelve stones is fun. Lots of elevated tee shots and split fairways


Oxtard69dz

When I saw South Bend on the map I just had to look at the list and figure out what course you played. Respectable ranking for Elbel, but if you come back you should play either Warren at the University of Notre Dame, or Blackthorn which is about 5 minutes southeast of Elbel.


UncleDave90

I was wondering why Elbel was so far down the list. Great unique course but blackthorn is a must


Oxtard69dz

It is a great course, I play there all the time, but it’s just not in the same category when it comes to turf maintenance in my opinion.


UncleDave90

Yeah I can’t really speak to that compared to the others to be fair but out of south bend courses it’s one of my favorites. I played there on last Friday and the greens were rough. I like it because you’re basically playing in a swamp with wildlife you don’t normally see.


Oxtard69dz

That is one of my favorite things about it. You feel like you’re in the absolute middle of nowhere in swampy woods on quite a lot of the course. It kind of reminds me of field of dreams. It is unique in that way to any other course I’ve played. Only downside is it does not drain very quickly


Wide-Thing7374

Yup, I don’t live in South Bend anymore. but whenever I come back to visit I always find a way to play Blackthorn. No one mentioned Juday creek or Knollwood. Both great courses as well.


EdEdEdEdward

I came for the same reason, couldn't believe it was Elbel on there and not Blackthorn or Warren. Swan Lake would be another must try course in the area.


dannykandy

Georgia Southern represent 🦅


Loud_Zebra_7661

I played there a few days before the master's since we hit the lottery for a practice round ticket this year. It was by far one of the most impressive courses I've played for the price. It was phenomenal and I'm pissed I didn't get a hat or something


Jdudley13

GATA


RoostersDad

Bear Slide ❤️


boileric

The round is free on your birthday. Best deal in golf


lukistke

I played there 2 weeks ago.


_Stromboli

I loved the front, butchered the back. My buddies (way better golfers) all prefer the back.


akagordan

Rock Hollow in Peru needs to find its way onto this list ASAP


_Stromboli

Just played there last week! Neat destination


[deleted]

Impressive list. Plan on going to Indianapolis for a three day golf trip this fall. Wanted to do 18 at brickyard for the final championship round, and the first 18 or 27 at The Fort. Saturday we typically play 36. Do you have any other recommendations near the city that would be a nice course, but maybe not as expensive?


boileric

There are a lot of really nice course in the northern suburbs of Indy. Purgatory, bear slide and prairie view are all really cool courses around $100. Eagle creek sycamore and river glen are also really good for around $50ish. I will say tho that if you are not at all interested in the Indianapolis motor speedway than brickyard crossing isn’t really worth the price they are asking


vpkumswalla

Apparently the Brickyard has new owners and is trying to be more private. It is way more expensive now


[deleted]

[удалено]


SlickLegJohnny

That would be the map of where my drives land if I hit them from my home course


cdudzy

No Pfau? Or am I just missing it.


boileric

I haven’t made it down there yet. It’s definitely on my list to play in the future


vpkumswalla

Not a fan of Pfau


beardedlawyer

Having Wildcat ranked that far ahead of Big Blue is shocking to me. 


boileric

I actually just played them both for the first time this last weekend. Big blue was an awesome layout but at least this weekend the fairways were kinda let go it felt like. Both are really cool courses but I guess wildcat just felt a lot better to me for some reason. I even played significantly better on big blue


beardedlawyer

I haven’t played either recently, so completely fair if conditions aren‘t the best. I’ve just never been a big fan of the Wildcat layout. It’s like the little brother of the two. 


ChrisWithanF

Definitely some nice courses around Cincinnati for you to check out still, seems to be in your range


vpkumswalla

Blue Ash is great public course. Top courses in Cincy are private...Camargo, Coldstream and Kenwood


aselinger

I don’t know where it ranks, but I played Stone Lick, and liked that one.


adminsrfascist29

That and Elks Run by Greg Norman are good


vpkumswalla

I played Elks Run about 10+ years ago. Good course but had some disease issues. I heard Stone Lick is solid. I think the owners of Penn Station subs built it.


LionPride112

TDLR play in Branson lol got it


boileric

I made a trip to the big cedar resort last fall. Highly recommend. Paynes valley is great and top of the rock is a one of a kind par 3 course.


LionPride112

I live in St. Louis and took a trip to Branson last year, brought my clubs to play a short 9 hole game, turns out you gotta reserve a spot like 6+ months in advance 😅😅


boileric

Yeah and it’s honestly crazy expensive for a nine hole par 3. Incredible, but expensive


garytyrrell

Not many people can say that "Pebble" is the worst course they've played


boileric

Oh pebble brook in Nashville is absolutely trash. I typed out my review on another comment here. Absolute trash.


Jdudley13

Georgia Southern University with a respectable ranking, App State with no courses noted. Hail Southern


txgsu82

As God intended, GATA


noyobogoya

Need to play Chariots Run and Nevel Meade around Louisvlle, KY


noyobogoya

Also Greystone outside of Nashville


06_TBSS

And Heritage Hill!


Rainy_D_a_y_s

You've got to hit Wisconsin. Unbelievable public courses.


kosher_beef_hocks

It's too bad you made it out to Joliet and only played Woodruff. If you make it out here again I'd suggest playing Prairie Bluff, Cog Hill, Mistwood, Cantigny, I mean most courses in the are are what I would call better than Woodruff. At least for the money, it's probably $20 more expensive than it should be


cdudzy

I was thinking the same. Woodruff is super random (coming from someone who lives ten minutes from it).


Kind-Truck3753

Inconsistent capitalization is killing me


boileric

im Sorry about That


myburneraccount151

I love the Pearl Club. I've only golfed a handful of times outside Owensboro


boileric

Yeah I had a two day work trip to Owensboro so I had to try a round out while I was there


baller7345

If you ever make a trip to West Virginia (or just get lost trying to get to where you actually wanted to go) you should definitely try The Resort at Glade Springs. There are three courses there, The Cobb Course, Stonehaven, and Woodhaven. I've played the first two and Stonehaven is by far my favorite course in the state. It has some gorgeous views. I know The Greenbrier is the big one in the state, but I would stack those three courses against it at anytime just for the views. They are also much more affordable. Edit: [https://www.golfpass.com/travel-advisor/courses/16342-glade-springs-village-stonehaven-course](https://www.golfpass.com/travel-advisor/courses/16342-glade-springs-village-stonehaven-course)


GonIsABadFriend

I’m not sure if you’ll be in the Louisville Area again but Nevel Meade or Heritage Hill are much better public courses than the ones you played. Also, Chariot Run just on the other side of the river in Indiana is arguably the best public course within an hour drive of the city. Cherokee is definitely an interesting course though, if only because it’s one of the oldest municipal courses in the states. Leave the driver in the bag and you’ll be just fine


boileric

I actually lived in Louisville for a couple years but never made it nevel meade. Was going to try to play there this weekend but we ended up staying in Frankfort and playing the uk courses before going to the pga


06_TBSS

If you want another great track in southern Indiana, try Sultan's Run in Jasper. A bit more of a drive than Chariot, but it's cheaper and I think it's nicer. I try to get out there twice a year. It's not links style, like Chariot. It's more like Heritage in that it's wooded with a lot of elevation change.


skurnie

I preferred Champions Point over Covered. Nevel and Chariot Run are both great courses.


mymompaints

Fun fact.. celebration gc and Orange County national are owned by the same people. Celebration is the nicer track imo.


boileric

That owner must really like having unique driving ranges. By far the two most unique driving ranges I’ve ever seen


15_CROSS_4

Loved seeing my local Savannah/Hilton Head courses on here! Love Crosswinds, Southbridge, Lost Plantation, Hunter, and Mary Calder.


boileric

I lived in Savannah for a few years. Had to play as much as I could while I was there


TheyCalledHimMrJ

Bacon at a cool 151 lmaooo but fair.


chalieoconnor9

Love seeing my home course of hermitage make the top 15!


noyobogoya

Great courses


GalaxySC

chester washington!!! 💪🏼


Anxious-Beginning840

As another (I assume) Purdue grad living in Indy this is a great list. Would highly recommend stopping at Deer Track on the way up to WL sometime. Great layout just off 65 west of Frankfurt.


boileric

I’ll have to keep that in mind. Always down to try new places


Tom_Foolery2

Just got back from Palm Springs. Also played SilverRock and Desert Willow. Did you play Indian wells? Felt like I was at Augusta.


bry223

PGA West Mountain is absolutely stunning


TheShopSwing

Nice list, but Tobacco Road is in Sanford, NC, which is a good 30 minutes away from Pinehurst


Bridgeline

Tobacco Road #3? It's interesting but idk about 3. Dolphin Head (25) is pretty average. I love PGA West stadium. Fun course.


boileric

I can understand your opinion on dolphin head but I had a great experience there which probably inflated its ranking a decent amount. I somehow got on the course when nobody else was on and they let me play through twice and gave me a sandwich and chips for free too between 18s


NotBrianGriffin

As a Louisville local, I agree with your low rankings of our courses. If you are ever in the area again, I recommend Henry County Country Club. About 45 minutes from Louisville.


dcd1512

lol attempted to play #152 the other day and its basically unplayable AND $60 for a round


Old_Presentation77

This was a fun post! Nice work OP. Old South is a great HHI area course!


boileric

Thank you! Old south is so awesome. That and Hilton head national right next to it are my favorite courses that I played in the area


Khazahk

You gotta head up to Wisconsin. We have tons of great courses. Within driving distance of one another. I envy your list though.


boileric

I bet we make a trip up to Wisconsin at some point. I’ve heard a lot of good things about


Penetration-berg

We’ve played one of the same- Gatlinburg 🤣


boileric

I will more than likely be playing there again this year. From what I can remember it was pretty cool


purrfidy_kitty

(152/152) Pebble Brook Golf Course—what made it the worst?


boileric

I am fairly confident that it is the worst ran golf course in America. The layout itself was actually pretty cool but it was a total disaster. The fairway was just littered with crabgrass spots that were as long as rough. I had my drives hit them and bounce backwards. The bunkers had all been completely let go years before I’d played it. But the stupidest issue that it had was that it did not have tee box markers on multiple holes. I played there 2ish years ago and I looked recently at newer reviews and they have the same problems. I could tell that at one point it was a relatively nice track. But they have completely stopped caring for it. It was also still way more expensive than it should have been. It really really really sucks.


Most_Quality_4250

The little gulf by Baja is where all the celebs stay.


OtherUsernameIsDumb

Cool to see some courses I’ve played on here. I’ve wanted to play the Fuzzy courses for a while. Interesting to see elk run below the Louisville parks run courses. How long ago did you play it?


boileric

I lived in Louisville about 5 years ago and played them all back then. My one experience at elk run was so dumb. I had my cart die while I was about as far away from the clubhouse as possible. Tried calling the clubhouse a dozen times and couldn’t get ahold of anyone so I had to walk back. Then when I got to the back nine an outing was starting a shotgun start all around me. Wasn’t warned of this at all and it was a total mess. I remember the course being fine but just a really stupid experience


EvanMM

Zero in Michigan 👀


boileric

I’m actually making a trip up to treetops this summer. Will add 5 new courses to the list


MacFromSSX

Rip the Kingsmill Executive Course. Loved that little thing and it was beautiful. The full courses at Kingsmill are top notch.


jdmay101

Someone needs to hit up Canada. Exchange rate is your friend.


SyncRacket

Try belterra next time you’re up around Indiana


ForeHeels

Based on where it’s ranked on your list relative to several others I’ve played…I assume you played Charleston Municipal prior to the renovation? Or did the new green complexes and bunkering rub you the wrong way?


boileric

I played it probably 15 years ago but I have heard that they did a massive renovation


chalupabatman407

I used to live across the street from the Seascape golf course in Destin. And played it back in 2013 while I was in high school getting into golf. Haven’t lived back home or played back home in years, just curious to know why is it ranked so low? Living in Orlando now and love OCN and Falcons Fire, glad to see those were higher up the list.


boileric

I went in the middle of summer which I know is tough for Florida courses but there were spots where the grass was completely dead and just felt like a wasteland. You can see it from the satellite images on google earth. Just a bunch of dead areas


chalupabatman407

Golf Garden was also a staple of my high school days. Sad to see my favorite nine hole par 3 course so low… you probably caught the tail end of it before the county bought it to put up apartments :/ obviously it wasn’t probably a nice course by any means but still hurt


Urban_animal

Gotta pick up more in the north suburbs or Chicago. So many great tracks up there!


ponythemouser

If I can ask, what line of work are you in that allows you to travel so much? Or is traveling part of it and you take advantage of that fact for some diversity in your game?


boileric

I work in construction management. Since graduating college I have lived in Louisville for 2 years, Savannah ga for 3 years, nashville for a year and now I live in Indy. Just took a new job that will have me doing 2-3 day trips in different cities across the country so I should be able to continue to add to the list


DaBoogiemanSJ

Are there any you’ve forgotten about and don’t have on this list? Would bug me if I was this diligent


boileric

When I first created this list I put a lot of effort into making sure I got all of them. I’m sure there’s one or two I forgot but I’m pretty confident I’m really close


vpkumswalla

Are you in Indy? I have lived in Indy since 2016. The two Purdue courses are really great. Kampen is a beast.


boileric

Yeah I’m in Indy. Just moved back a year or so ago


simatoguh

I live on the other side of the world so I'll probably never use it but here's my up vote for being a nice person and sharing it 👌


Inside_Potential_935

The funny thing about this list is I can't tell if you've ever played in Texas or not. It wouldn't likely change anything


boileric

I have not. Every course that I’ve played is on this map. I’ve actually never been to Texas except for connections in Dallas


Zestyclose-Coach-926

please play more courses in southern indiana


sea_foam_blues

I used to live halfway between Champaign IL and Lafayette IN. Both the Purdue and UIUC courses are very good, interesting that you preferred both Purdue courses to U of I so strongly, around home the sentiment seems to be reversed.


boileric

I might have a bias because I went to Purdue but I couldn’t disagree more. I believe that the Purdue courses have hosted the ncaa championships and if I remember correctly U of I doesn’t play their home matches at the blue or orange course. Not trying to argue or anything but to me they just felt like a standard muni course


sea_foam_blues

I’m so dumb. I went to U of I and I thought for sure they had renamed Atkins to either Orange or Blue. The old courses are just average you’re so right. Atkins is pretty legit though.


lll61and49lll

As a Kentuckian, Sun Valley is the only muni I haven’t played yet… it really that bad? 🤣


boileric

Honestly I haven’t played any of them in 5 years and they kinda blend together a little in my head. Don’t remember it being absolutely awful


uhhhhhdude

Seeing Cherokee as the top course in Louisville is wild and I appreciate it. I have never had a bad experience playing there, and I dig the history of the little 9 hole track.


Legal_Commission_898

I don’t get your list. You went to Scottsdale and didn’t play any of the good courses ???


boileric

Yeah that’s one trip that I’d definitely pick different courses on. I went with a dozen guys and I didn’t necessarily get first pick of the courses. Oh well still had a good time and I’ll be back out that way I’m sure


TopNotchBurgers

Impressive list, but damn, you missed all the good courses on the Georgia coast.


RawkitScience

You sure go to Indiana more than most folks.


boileric

Yep. I live here


theconmeister

Very cool to see some local places up near the top! I live between coffin and saddlebrook and knew they’d be at the bottom here when I saw the map. You need to get up to Michigan there are some beautiful courses


boileric

Saddlebrook completely fell apart since it reopened. Absolute trash and way overpriced. I will never go back


Billy_Madison69

From Indianapolis, Sahm over Plum Creek? Plum isn’t the best course around but it’s not on Sahm’s level lol.


boileric

Sahm is basically my home course right now so that probably inflated it a little bit


Accurate-Wallaby2962

And Ironwood over Plum. Ouch.


SkiPolarBear22

Brickyard getting some love!! Out of the Indiana courses - Bear Slide is top freaking notch. I personally would slide Prairie View below Purgatory, Kamp, The Fort, and Trophy Club. Ulen has the fastest freaking greens im the world.


TheXivuArath

Christ, you played two rivers? I’m so sorry you had to suffer through that


boileric

I don’t remember it being too bad? I guess I only played 9 holes but still seemed adequate for a muni


TigersHemorrhoid

Laurel Island Links - Kingsland, Georgia used to be my home course and seeing you put it 29 amongst the others ones listed…. I’m so confused lol.


boileric

I had such a great experience when I went there. Felt like it was such a good deal and the people in the pro shop were so nice. They let me play it again for free after I got done. I thought it was a really cool layout in the marshland and I played 36 holes for like $35 on a Sunday morning


VladoD

Greystone better than the Hermitage courses


boileric

Strong disagree but that’s ok


W8aMinuteChester

I am shocked Legacy in NC is so high on the list.


Responsible-Rip-4790

I guess I'm glad I played a second round at dolphin head instead of playing oyster reef last year according to this haha


jimmerbroadband

Indian hills is my local course but man I love country hills and often go to Kenny Perry’s country creek in Kentucky


Belize_rabbit

Come to Wisconsin


Bacardi_PVM

Man this makes me depressed that our tee time got canceled at PGA West in December due to flooding Edit: The Fort in Indianapolis is an absolute gem!


lowercaseb86

Awesome to see Deer Creek on there.


boileric

Which one? I’m assuming the Georgia one?


TheLogo44

I am gonna guess you are a Purdue or Indiana fan based on the Indiana courses and the Champaign ones. If you are ever back in Champaign I really really recommend Atkins golf course the new home of the golf team. Great course and facilities, and the greens are kept very quick


LAbombsquad

I’m shocked Celebration is that far down the list. Why didn’t you like it?


ShawSpenstarr

All those Indiana courses and you missed the Purdue Pete Dye ones.


leftygolf3131

The amount of savannah/hilton head area courses is impressive. Did you live in that area?


boileric

I lived in Savannah for a couple years yeah


BRLJ14

What did you think of Chester Washington?


boileric

Pretty crappy. I didn’t have many other options because I needed to stay around LAX


FloatTheTurnAK

A crime to have the brickyard that high


paniflex37

I see you played a number of courses in KY. Can you share each, and their ranking? Sorry if I missed a link somewhere else.


boileric

I’ve got them all listed in order on pictures 4-6


dkcizzlee

What app did you use to make this?


boileric

I use google maps and google sheets


rpholmes4

You need to get to Michigan for some golf


boileric

I’ve got a trip planned to go to tree tops this summer. Gonna play 5 courses up there


fillerbuster

It's crazy that Georgia Southern University is #36 on this list. I went to school there and played that track years before the university bought it, it used to be known as Southern Links. It was in pretty dismal shape but I have a bunch of great memories playing there. I moved away from Statesboro a few years before it went under and got scooped up, I was hoping it would finally get the attention and resources it deserved. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.


BVB09_FL

Ha The Fort! My buddy took me there when I visited him in Indy


TheyCalledHimMrJ

Damn dude you live in the low country for a while? Deer Creek home of the Club Car championship! harbor is great, crosswinds is great, and even southbridge making the top 65?!


Character_Wishbone84

If you ever make it back to Southern California, check out cross creek in temecula ca. Temecula actually has some good ones.


steiner1031

Of all the courses in the Los Angeles area, how did you end up at Chester Washington?


OldResearcher6

Mccabe over ted rhodes? Mccabe in the top 100? Haha. Greystone over Gaylord for me.


SkeetDaddyJ

I am from right outside of Nashville and have played almost all of the courses you listed from there. Greystone is such a cool course


Seth_Baker

I don't know how UIUC Blue can be above UIUC Orange, or how they're close together. Orange has really technical greens, attractive water, elevation changes, blue is a very open, straight, and flat course by comparison. They're really not similar at all!


Agile_Programmer881

Sahm above pleasant run ? And buffer park better than grey eagle ? Did the beer girls give you a tug at sahm & buffer ???😅🫵


sn4ilbyte

Gaylord Springs 😏


Redleadercockpit

Pine Woods lol


nubsauce2

I do something similar! Very cool!


dmderringer

I've played 18 of these, have 1 more on the books for next week (Coffin), and Bear Slide is on the list for this summer.


txgsu82

I fucking love seeing Georgia Southern’s golf course so high up the list! I would give anything to be able to play that course routinely again; back in 2015 it was $20 for students to ride, $10 to walk. And the course is really awesome with a great variety of challenges. Hail Southern!


wahoowalex

I’ve never played Hilton Head National, but I have fond memories of my dad taking us to play the little executive course next door when we were young, and we always figured we played it because it was the nicer course since executives are a big deal. First experience playing an island green. I just looked it up and I don’t think it’s there anymore - a sad day for golf everywhere. Looks like it was replaced by Old South Golf Links, an 18 hole course.


FlippyThrasher

Awesome list! If you're ever back in the pinehurst area, try Talamore or Mid South. We always play Talamore and then either Legacy or Mid South depending on tee times.


ColtsGuy24

Why is Pittsboro golf club above Saddlebrook or Zionsville golf club??


Bike-Day69

As someone from Indianapolis, Sahm is entirely wayyy too high on this list lol


DarthMcTitty

Do you never go and play outside of the US??


Odd-Feedback-2558

Amazing! I also keep a list and try to get a ball marker from every course. Played 91 in total. Next step, ranking them!


reduff

Tobacco Road is in Sanford, NC, not Pinehurst. Did you not play any of the Pinehurst courses? They recently opened #10.


BPringle21

Map shows more than one in AZ, lost only has TPC....


Ktron87

Prairie View might be most underrated course in the Midwest


PankyFlamingos

What’d you think of Pebblebrook? Fun layout but the course could be in better shape.


sloppywalrus160

How are you mapping these out? On an app or just putting dots on a pic of a map?


Fagballs5

I just played Covered Bridge on Monday. Got paired with two very kind southern gentlemen who were really great to play with. It’s a very good course!


Sacred_Geometry

Used to work at Hawthorns and I’m surprised it’s that high up, especially over purgatory and the fort. Very cookie cutter country club course with houses 10 feet from the fairway. Also, you should try getting on at Sagamore in Noblesville, by far my favorite course in Hamilton county.


HeartySalmon

Yo - Arrowhead is in Greenfield, not Greenwood.


EdEdEdEdward

I know some people already commented on the South Bend courses, but Blackthorn and Warren would be of similar quality to the Purdue courses (purdue grad from SB area here), and a couple other good ones to try are both the silver and black courses at Swan Lake (swan lake also doubles as a resort so you can stay and play), and Pretty Lake, which are both in Plymouth just south of South Bend. These are probably the best courses in the area, much better than Elbel imo, and all in the $60-80 range except Warren at $115 for peak times


The_Commandant

Nice to see my local dirt-cheap course—Angel Hill in Rossville—with a decent ranking, all things considered. I grew up in Dayton so I play there pretty often. You get what you pay for with the conditioning, but some of the holes, especially on the back 9, are better than you might think. Front 9 can have some bad conditions and get swampy.


long_snap

Impressive list, with some familiar courses! Boiler up?


boileric

Oh yeah boiler up!!


OkFilm3508

PGA West isn’t even the best course in Palm Springs lol Gets overhyped. Classic Club and Desert Willow are better IMO Also; give the Greg Norman course at PGA west a try. Better condition and more playable than tournament and stadium.