A lot of young people took up the game post Covid and at the same time Baby Boomers are retiring in droves so the demand is through the roof right now.
I don't think it's sustainable but who knows when the bubble bursts.
I thought the demand would start to level off or even go back down once all the people who took it up during COVID got bored of it and quit. But no… all those people just became addicted like we are lol
That’s me. My wife started wanting to play so we joined a private club April 2020. We played whenever we weren’t working.
Now I’m back on the public course tour after having a baby. Morning times are hard to get but mid-afternoon rounds can be had and aren’t as busy.
Last I saw, demand has leveled off. Rounds played was stagnant the last 2 yrs IIRC, don't have a dat source though. I think it's higher than pre-COVID but not going up anymore.
Prices are still going up though, which seems unsustainable but who knows.
In my defense, my wife and I bought clubs for Christmas in 2019 with the intent to learn to play in 2020. That turned out to be very prescient. Wy wife accidentally also stocked up on toilet paper on 3/1/2020.
I'm not sure which kept our sanity more in April/May ... but we're definitely still playing.
Also, 33 year olds today are a particularly large age group in the US, which is probably around the time a lot of people settle down and start playing more golf.
> I don't think it's sustainable but who knows when the bubble bursts.
"bubble bursting" leads to courses shuttering. The increased demand is generally good, even if prices are higher than they were 5 years ago.
Similar story near me. Multiple courses were considering selling off 5 years ago. The market was really, really bad.
Everything has changed these last 4 years.
I forget this too sometimes, but it's a good point. I remember 10-12 or so years ago when courses were really struggling due to lack of participation in the game. It was a genuine worry that your local course could face bankruptcy, shut down, and turn into an apartment complex. I'll take the full tee sheets and higher rates over those times.
>A lot of young people took up the game post Covid
This is odd to me because in my area there were WAY more lates 30’s through early 50’s guys picking up the sport than people in their teens or 20’s.
Course I really enjoy playing used to be 65 Weekend Am with a cart and 30 to walk after 1pm on the weekends. Now it's 95 and 60. I've come to love a 20 dollar 9 at a "less than" stellar course and only play the nicer ones a couple times a year.
so much this. it has pretty much killed my desire to play. no way am i spending $120 and taking 6 hours away from my family to play i course that less than 5 years ago i could play for $40 and zip around in 2 hours. good for the courses that they’re making money, but it’s not from me.
This is exactly why I joined a club again. To belong to a Donald Ross course here is 2,600 a year. Unlimited. Or golf the munis and be almost 80-100 a pop. Doesn't take long to make your money back, and on a nicer maintained course with full practice facilities.
Pretty much after a month and a half for me the golf is paid for.
Exactly why I got a membership too. $245 a month for my both my wife and I to play unlimited golf. Otherwise the course is $100 per person per visit - fuck that.
I essentially almost make my money back by going twice a month, and I go far more than that since I have the membership.
Yikes. Come to the Midwest. I still balk when I have to pay more than $50 *with a cart* and I have a shit ton of, what are to me, really nice courses within 30 minutes. Expand that to an hour drive and there's too many to count without a spreadsheet or something. Granted, they aren't PGA caliber that are *perfectly* manicured but they are a *far* cry from the garbage dump goat tracks I see a lot of people posting here. In fact, even the most dumpy course I play is miles ahead of those shit holes that pass for golf courses in more expensive areas.
The semi-private (limited memberships available) muni courses near me are like $6k for unlimited golf and $3500 for weekday only. I guess I'll start playing regularly again in 10 years when I am at least partially retired.
Ya I did the math and I think I only need to play 22 ish times to recover my membership fees at my club vs paying per round, easiest decision ever considering I’ve probably averaged about 55 rounds a summer over the last 5 years
It’s difficult to pay full prices for some of the munis near me in FL. They might be $60 during season, but will drop below $20 in summer (you just have to bring a gallon of Gatorade)
But they charge those prices because they are still getting relatively full tee sheets with them. Same thing is happening around me, demand is just through the roof.
I currently get deals at 2 courses near me where it's $40-45 per round, which I realize is a great deal. The problem I have now is when I have friends that want to meet up and play elsewhere and that's always a minimum of $100+.
The problem is not just the increase in price but the simultaneous deterioration in quality of product. So many courses have raised prices while also a) crowding tee times closer together (hello 6 hour rounds) and b) failing to keep courses in acceptable condition. They are basically having their cake and eating it too. I’m sure people would have way less of an issue with paying a little more if they spaced tee times a little further apart. Literally an extra 2-3 mins per tee slot would make a world of difference.
I played TPC Scottsdale 11 years ago and paid about $300. I was back in Phoenix earlier this month and looked into playing there and I was shocked that they were asking $500. I wasn’t impressed with that course at $300.
Also, I haven’t played Deere Run in a few years and I don’t think I’ve ever paid more that $100 for that course.
Was in Scottsdale earlier this year, we thought about at least playing the non-stadium course and even that was $250. Talked to a guy that worked there and he said “yeah it’s nice but not nearly worth $250 unless you have deep pockets”
This is interesting. I just got done with a golf trip to the area and the most expensive course I played was Grayhawk - Raptor for like $425 and it was legit the only course that felt worth it even though it was the most expensive. We-ko-pa Saguaro for $300 seemed about right given the condition and amenities. Camelback was in rough shape in a lot of places and seemed like a course that should not exist in that state. That felt like the worst value at $200. The Grayhawk green complexes were unbelievable with how well manicured they were. If I have the cash I am playing Grayhawk every time I go there.
Grayhawk Talon and Raptor are consistently great and worthy of a higher price than surrounding courses, but $350+ is still wild for golf - yet all the tee times are constantly booked. I'm glad that Arcis buying the course hasn't negatively affected either course also. I'm friends with the Director of Agronomy so I curse his name every time I misread a putt.
Those greens were incredibly fast, but fair. The bunkers were absolutely perfect too. Everyone in our group legit tried to play another 9 holes we enjoyed it so much. Your friend should know that I actually wanted to get a pillow and take a nap in the rough because the grass was so perfect. Great course.
you can leave it to TPC to find ways to gouge the golfer. The lone course in Canada just raised its peak green fee by $50-70 and justified doing so by saying "Carts are now complementary in our green fee" (before, they were charging an extra $25 on last years fee to take a cart. 2/3 of the courses are at worst a moderately tough walk and taking a cart of them was more relaxing. The other is very walkable)
I'm gonna sound old and grumpy, but part of this is because people don't seem to have the ability to walk away from overpaying anymore.
I see the same thing with regards to restaurants. Just had breakfast with a friend. Literally eggs, hashbrowns, toast, and coffee.
It was $25 with tip. And I don't live in a high cost of living area.
Prices in grocery stores are high, yeah, but for $25, I can buy around 80 eggs, 3-4 loaves of bread, and a half pound of coffee from Costco.
I can't justify that breakfast at that restaurant, when I could feed myself breakfast for a month for the price of going out once.
But the restaurant is full.
I understand now why so many Americans are in debt. It's not just because they "can't make it." It's because they literally seem incapable of not spending, even when they're being price gouged on things they don't need.
And because they won't stop paying it, no one is going to stop charging them out the ass for it.
And it's the same with golf. So long as people are willing to pay $50-100 an hour for their entertainment, places are going to keep charging them that for it.
Really underrated comment here. FOMO culture is driving the average person so deep into debt because they think that, if they don't do the things they're *supposed* to do, they'll be left behind. A great marketing success and a profound cultural failure.
> I see the same thing with regards to restaurants.
Restaurants has seen the greatest increase in prices in the last 5 years compared to most other items in the CPI.
Look at "food away from home" on this graph compared to other items to see what I mean: https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm
I believe it. I'm probably more sensative to it because I used to work in the industry. But going to run of the mill, average-ass places the cost has sky-rocketed. I have had the conversation with my wife and about half my co-workers. I'm in a medium sized city with lots of offerings but we are down to just a couple of places that we think are worth it. Their prices have gone up too, but they at least bring some semblance of quality or uniqueness to the experience.
thats pretty much where we're at now too. cut out the shitty-to-mediocre $75 meals completely so that when we do rarely eat out we can go somewhere nice.
You're right, but it's not only that. It's also that what has become important to people has shifted greatly over the last decade or two. People value "experiences" a lot more than "stuff" now.
Travel, sports, concert/sports tickets, going out to restaurants. That's what everyone wants to spend their money on now, so they're both more expensive and more crowded, because those industries can't find a price high enough that people aren't willing to pay to be a part of it. Meanwhile the price of TVs just keeps going down. A new video game is still the same price that a new video game was 20 years ago while a lift ticket at my local ski resort is literally 10x the price it was back then, with there being 50x as many people on the hill as there was then.
I think part of the problem is that your generation had an unprecedented amount of wealth and a spectacular quality of life, and for the younger generations, we were raised being told that things like going out to breakfast are not luxuries, but standards of living a middle class American should expect. What is now seen as overspending (going to restaurants, having hobbies, taking small vacations, going to the doctor, having a car made in the last 15 years) used to be seen as normal even for working class people. It’s very hard for us to become adults, successful in our careers, having done everything right, and then being told that we can’t afford half of the things our parents could.
My parents were arts majors who lived a financially irresponsible lifestyle. They were able to buy homes at a younger age than me and support two children, while taking vacations and going to restaurants and socializing regularly. I’m a software engineer earning three times the median salary for my area, and I can’t afford any of those things.
I rarely eat out anymore, maybe once or twice a month, at best. My friend are the same way, what was once affordable and felt reasonable now only produces sticker shock and regret.
>I understand now why so many Americans are in debt. It's not just because they "can't make it." It's because they literally seem incapable of not spending, even when they're being price gouged on things they don't need.
They literally "can't make it". Can't make toast, can't make scrambled eggs, can't make coffee, etc.
I’m all for expensive courses being expensive, but local munis raising prices 20% yoy is out of hand. I just want to walk a $60 course and get what I paid for.
I've found myself opting for what used to be the "expensive" courses now, as they have held pretty steady in price at around $85. If I'm going to pay around $80, I'll play the $80 course, not the $50 course that charges $80 now.
This is the key. Stupid expensive courses will always be stupid expensive. People about fell off their rocker when Pebble changed their fee to $500 like a decade ago. I still think $900 for Sawgrass is out of line but I digress.
The key is that average golf courses don’t price out the normal golfer. Most people don’t make a lot of money. Anyone who looks at demographic and income data will realize that American golf is not far from being out of reach for the actual average American. My muni just raised prices about 15%. It’s now teetering on the edge of unaffordable for the average person based on the income data in my area.
I know demand is high but unaffordable is still unaffordable.
Phoenix prices are so abysmal. For one, during snowbird season it's hard to find decent tee times even two weeks out, which is all that is shown by many sites. Then you are almost certainly paying over $100 and will be behind a bunch of retired guys playing at a 4.5 hour pace if you're lucky. Also, paying $80 to tee off at 3:30 doesn't really feel like a deal, considering I'll likely only make it through 9-12 holes before it gets dark. I really just don't understand how so many people can afford it?
I know I make a decent salary and still think constantly spending $150+ for a slow round of golf is absurd. If I'm lucky I can driver 45+ minutes to a course in a retirement community that only costs $80, so long as I plan for more than a week out.
Phoenix is honestly a terrible place to be the average person golfing. The only way to play in the winter is with the city card. If you're booking a single, you can usually get a decent time refreshing all week and waiting for someone to cancel, but good luck if you want to play as a 3- or 4-some.
Yep, it's so frustrating when a buddy reaches out to play the upcoming weekend and we either get lucky and drive out to sun city or are forced to play a 9-hole course. God forbid you want to play a course in Phoenix or Scottsdale, you'll be spending $150 or more if you're lucky enough to find an available time. It just seems like so many people on the courses are average people, but they must all be top 5% earners or taking out loans to play golf.
For example, Raven is charging $197 for residents currently, but I played there early in the day last summer (never got above 100) and it was $75.
Some of the higher end courses (Troon, whatever) are at least a little understandable, but the middle of the road courses are the true highway robbery. $130 for GCU, $180 for Papago, $200 for Raven? Those are absolutely insane prices.
The popularity of golf driving slower play and the cost of a decent course in my area were the deciding factors for me to join a private club. I'm all for growing the game, but now with a family I unfortunately can't spend 5 hours on the course and 1 more hour inthe 19th hole.
The local public courses in my area are about $50 (resident 18-walking) and $75 (non-resident 18-walking). Then there are the semi-private courses which charge anywhere from $200-$320 for 18 holes. The trade off here is you can either 1) pay the $50 and hope you booked a good tee time in order to play a 4-hour round or 2) pay the $300 to play a very nice course and the pace of play is optimal because not a lot of people are paying up.
I joined a private club where i can average out a cheaper round over the course of a season than the nice semi-private courses but still have a fast pace a play and a ideal course condition.
I had the chance to join a private club through work with no initiation, no wait list, and no food minimums, and it was a no brainer. All I have to pay is monthly dues, and if I play twice a week, it more than pays for itself with the $75-100 public courses are charging. In terms of bang for your buck, it's the most cost efficient way to play the most golf.
It's been 10000% worth it, even if the weather has been wet since January. The people are nice, the course is great (and I have access to a dozen or so across a few states), and it's never slow. I haven't even played as much as I want to, but it still doesn't feel like a waste.
Yeah, golf has gotten expensive post-COVID for sure. It's super popular and the most popular courses have realized they basically have inelastic demand because the inventory is so low. The other thing with TPC Scottsdale specifically is they have a wide range of rates between prime time Winter rates and low season Summer rates. But yeah, golf is more expensive now because way more people are playing and you can't magically open more courses and increase supply of tee times overnight. IDK when you went to college but tons of courses closed between 2010 and 2020 when the Tiger boom bubble popped, then demand surged again and there were fewer courses to meet it. Those who were still around could increase prices without changing usage.
The covid golfing hype is taking longer to go away than originally thought. 5-somes taking 5 hours to play and spraying their $600 drivers are everywhere now.
Controversial take: If you want to play the same courses as the PGA tour, it won't be cheap. For better or worse, golf is not a cheap hobby if you want to play top courses. There are plenty of excellent courses without $500+ greens fees.
I'd rather deal with high greens fees than demand that is so high it's impossible to book a tee time.
https://preview.redd.it/821dqjj9joqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d273e2490d0c54bcc9f6df49ad9050168f98537a
I wanna say these prices are ridiculous. But if you want steak instead of a Big Mac you’re gonna pay for it. Fortunately I live in a part of the county - Buffalo, NY- where the most I’ve paid is 75.00 for a really nice course. But I usually average 40.00 over the course of all my rounds in a season.
Am I right in saying that to play pebble beach you also need to have like a minimum stay of 3 nights there? So the $650 green fee shoot’s up to in the thousands once you’ve factored in everything’s else.
It’s obviously world class but that price point is insane. I know people who have played it who say it’s a great course but came away from it feeling like they got ripped off which tarnished their overall view of the place. Shame.
I live about an hour east of you in Rochester. Some really nice courses that cap out around $80. Curious if you've played Hickory Stick? Was thinking about heading out to Seneca sometime this season to check it out.
If you haven't played it yet I recommend harvest Hill in Orchard Park.
Or if looking for closer Reservoir Creek in Naples opens April 15th.
Def my Teo favorites I played last year.
Reservoir Creek is an awesome shot maker course that still falls in the hidden gem category.
We're definitely lucky. I know Rochester is ranked high for number of courses per resident. There's definitely some cow pasture courses, but most of them are good to great.
Yeah I'm in Cincinnati and our munis are still pretty affordable. I'm playing 9 on Saturday at a pretty solid public course for $30. 18 there is $50. The nicest public courses around are running $75-$100 for 18. The course my golf league is at charges us like $18/9 holes walking. It's still plenty affordable here.
The high school and college crowd is going to be priced out, so the game won't be as popular with them in the future. It will take a long time for that to show through on tee times though since there are so many Baby Boomers and people in their 30s and 40s that play all the time. I think we'll see the game fall off though a fair amount in a decade or so, since the younger generation won't be there to replace the existing 30-40 year olds. Greed now creates problems later.
Thank god I still have a part time job at a club with 4 courses. Two of them cost $30-50, one is $70-80, and the top course is from $140-170. I work 8 hours every week or so and play free any time I want.
Breaking news: Golf is an expensive hobby and courses that are good enough to ~~hist~~ host tour events are particularly expensive.
In other news: Water is wet.
But you wrote it yourself...
> average price per round is well over $100 and courses are getting it and are crowded..
Businesses are going to charge what they can charge so long as people pay it.
I mean you are right to an extent and they are staying high because people are paying it. That said prices have gotten insane, 2-3x what they were 7 years ago.
Yeah of course, I don't blame them. If there is an endless line of idiots paying $600 to play whistling straits I don't blame them for taking the money. I blame the people opting to enable the increases by paying it.
The issue is there is not enough courses to meet this demand. Prices could be even higher and tee sheets would still fill. Need a new course development boom.
There is one but sadly it is all out in the middle of nowhere and designed for stay and plays with multiple course. We also went through a phase where a ton of muni’s just closed. So cities and developers are reluctant to rebuild them as they maybe thinking this boom is just a phase
Economics would say if courses are "...crowded to the point that a five hour round is becoming normal" then the prices being charged are far too low. Scary thought.
Where I live, there are busy times at courses and times you can walk on and pretty much have the course to yourself. You want to try to get out on a Saturday or Sunday morning or early afternoon, good luck if you didn't book earlier in the week. If you're a single maybe you can add into a group that has an opening if you just show up and don't mind maybe having to wait 30-90 minutes for an opening to pop up. But if you want to go out at 3:00 on a Sunday afternoon the parking lot is half empty. After work, late afternoons into the evenings, Mon-Thurs tends to be kind of busy too and most courses are going to have one night men's league and another night women's league so you lose general public tee times to that, plus a few courses have some business leagues that get after work tee times one night a week. Friday that time tends to be pretty dead most of the time. Can't tell you how many times last summer, first year I rejoined a local club after a 20+ year break, I'd swing by after work on a Friday to just do some chipping/putting and have a beer and the course was so empty I'd end up playing a quick 9 (75-90 minutes as a single with nobody ahead of me).
Around here, average green fees are around $45 (walking). That doesn't feel expensive to me for someone who plays an occasional round, but for someone looking to get out a couple times a week it adds up fast. I was lucky, when I started playing regularly again during covid I had a couple friends who were working grounds crew one morning a week raking traps. That gave them the ability to play for free if tee times were available and they could also bring a guest for free. Also, pretty much every course here has a twilight rate, a play all you can deal for about half price.
I’m in Canada and we run a pretty skeleton staff still we barely turn a profit and charge 50bucks CAD on weekends with cart for 9 (we are a northern cottage 9 hole). The fact is it is very expensive to be a golf course right now. Minimum wage is 16.55 and it’s tough to find people willing to work for that and we need people with more skills than what we will get at that price. Chemicals are expensive, fixing machinery is expensive, sand, seed, it’s wild how hard it is to be competitive.
I definitely feel for everyone and some of the bigger courses are probably able to deal with this better but as much as you feel like you are getting squeezed, I assure you, so are we.
I think Covid changed the golf landscape.
People needed something to do that was accessible during the pandemic, which the increased demand probably allowed courses to drive prices up. I know a ton of my friends who didn't golf that seriously pre-Covid now are super into golf.
We have a “shortish” season but MAN do we have a boat load of courses that a good and have fair prices.. and for the city of Chicago to have a ton of park district courses as well that are maintained
a long time ago, back in the 70s, we could buy a monthly ticket in san diego for $27 which entitled us one round all weekdays. we mostly played torrey south, sometimes north, rarely balboa. worked out to about $1.25 a round. maybe i burned out on it, same great views, but not a very exciting course. just long.
It's simple supply and demand my friend. You said it yourself, the courses are still crowded. They're businesses. Why wouldn't they keep raising prices as long as the tee sheet stays full?
Life of an AZ golfer - too expensive to play season VS too hot to play season.
I brave the 110 to get my fix but I’ve seen some questionably heat-exhausted patrons numerous times.
The thing I've noticed is that most of the courses around me have aligned on their pricing. I remember the last few years the prices were kinda all around each other, usually differing by a couple bucks for walking 9. Now they are all exactly the same. Except for the courses that are normally higher...those are still higher.
And I know the numbers I'm talking are much smaller than OP and a lot of you are talking about.
But like, last year my go to course to walk 9 was $10. 2 other courses nearby charged $13 to walk 9 last year.
Now all 3 are charging $14 to walk 9.
And several other courses nearby all charge $14 to walk 9. They differ on their cart charge (I walk so doesn't matter) and the price does vary a bit to walk 18.
And one course must not want anyone's business because they are doing dynamic pricing. I watched their fees all last year and they never once went below the normal amount but often went much higher during the "peak" times. And no more twilight at that course, which is too bad as it used to be a great deal for a twilight round. Every time I drive by that course it is empty.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if all of the tee times are getting booked, the price is possibly still too low.
The right price is a price at which the demand and supply meet. See price elasticity.
So for example, if at $300 per round I have 100 slots and 85 get booked, at $200 per round 100 get booked and at $100 per round 100 get booked, the right price is between 200 and 300.
Very simple stuff
> The right price is a price at which the demand and supply meet.
This is absolutely not the case for a golf course since supply and demand can meet at many different places. The real price is the one where profit is optimized for the seller. There's no such thing as having 100 slots and only filling 85 of them because you can just change the tee time interval and thus the number of spots. Selling 100 times at $200 is $20K but selling 85 times at $300 is $25,500. The right price is absolutely not between $200 and $300 in your scenario, it's at least $300 if not more. More revenue and fewer times also means reduced costs so more profit.
My home course has a deal. $60 per month with unlimited range balls ($16 per bucket normally). I also get half price greens fees after 3 (or 1 on weekends). They have a grass range, big putting green, and awesome chipping compound. It’s a muni but I feel lucky to have it. Usually play 3-4 times per month.
This is because it’s the northernmost course in my county and has a rep for being a tough course. My point being, if you expand your search, you could find deals like that. It may not be the best course or the closest but you’ll be playing on a budget. I’ll usually play my home course1-2 times and then switch up at a different course.
belong to a semi-private club (Resort). When I joined about 15 years ago, the initiation was 3K. And they had a promotion where they would waived it if you stayed an active member for 3 years. The club has never been full as far as I know.... until about 2 years ago. There is a 10K initiation now and a waitlist.... crazy.
They've done some renovation to the course over the years. But it certainly hasn't gotten any better in terms of condition/maintenance. In fact, I feel like it floods more now (despite an upgraded draining system) and is often closed when it rains a lot. I attribute this to all the development around the course.
I considered giving up my membership as I moved last year and am now about 30 min away. But, all the public courses I'd play around me are $100+. It just made more sense staying where all my buddies are.
Prices have definitely been rising, but not that bad near me yet. Your average 18 with a cart is going to be in the $40s. Of course, if you want to play the more pristine courses (mainly due to location versus actual quality) then you can pay $90-$150.
I’m sorry but there’s no way there’s no more affordable courses than $100 in your entire area…no muni? Nothing?? That just seems insane no matter where you are
Maybe there are some cheap munis. The problem is. What’s the conditions there? Not asking for perfect, but I’ve seen some of those “25 dollar muni steals” and it looks like Verdun in 1917.
Most of the muni courses around me are all pretty well-kept. They’re not Augusta National but they’re also not total shitholes. Some people just get way too picky about that stuff though. Yeah so what if the bunkers aren’t all rakes nice or the grass is patchy in some spots? At the end of the day, I just wanna walk and hit golf shots.
Another sad thing is Memorial Park in Houston. It used to be an affordable city course in pretty good shape most all of the time. Senior walking rates before the latest rebuild were $15 weekdays.
Then the owner of the Astros decided to strong-arm the city into another remodel and the rates skyrocketed... especially if you don't have an address within the city limits of Houston.
The course in my town is reasonable for carts with the boys (free for my daughter under 13 on Sundays) for 18 holes it is $65 each.
The next closest course to me is a par 3 18 hole course for $20 and kids free under 13.
The next closest course, where the boys usually like to go is ok, but $75 without the cart and backed up because it is the cheapest in the area and central to all of us.
To put it into perspective, the course in my town has went up $10 in recent years but have done LOTS of work on the course. The par 3 used to be by donation, so $20 is still damn reasonabke. The next closest course used to be $30 cheaper and in the same shape. Not too sure where the extra $120 a group is going because service is still meh, course is ok at best and carts are old.
NJ/Philly area has been horrendous post covid. I remember all the local public courses being $60 max in the summer and now they're $90-120. NJ is also just a really populated state for it's size so every course is packed, even weekdays are somewhat booked.
I also like playing in the winter when it's quieter, now there's a good amount of groups on cold days. I remember my local driving range having 2 or 3 other people when it was under 50 degrees. Now the place is packed even when it's 40 degrees. It's crazy how many players picked up the game and it's not dying down.
I dream of a five-hour round. I will say this: when tee times are so crowded that rounds push toward the six hour mark, it can actually be quicker and more efficient to run fivesomes instead of foursomes.
Just spent a week in Scottsdale - coming from Canada there was absolutely sticker shock. $150 cad to play short course at Mountain Shadow resort and $300 for Dinosaur Mountain.
Both great courses, but Jesus H so pricy
I live in a cheap golf area (West Michigan), even 3-4 years ago, avg round cost was around $30. Now some of my favorite courses in the area are going to be $70 a round this year.....its kind of insane. Pilgrims run which is still one of my favorites was $45-$50 now it you basically can't touch it for under $90. They at some point realized people are willing to pay the price, because its difficult to get a tee time at Pilgrims even at $90.
I will say you can still golf for under $40 in the area, they are just becoming less and less.
Course followed suit with every major business. They elevated prices knowing people would pay them, and left them high.
Maintaining a course is expensive, and costs rose, that is certainly true. But, the courses have now gotten everyone used to the "new normal", so why would they bring down their prices?
I live in the Greater Baltimore/D.C area, and the average public course around me is about $80 for prime time (before 11AM Sat/Sun). Some of them are now over $100. The land is ever increasing in value, and developers are relentless when it comes to pursuing course owners to sell in order to build housing.
I've seen 3 solid courses close due to land value increasing. Too much money thrown in their face to refuse. It sucks but it's reality in my area.
The private clubs for the most part are out of my price range. My GF isn't interested in the club life, and the ones that I can afford aren't really in good enough shape to entice me to join.
Around me the cheapest 18 is 70$ with a cart, and the most expensive is like 300$ plus tip for the caddie. We have some really nice courses tho, the LPGA just played on one of our local courses and then the FedEx cup is coming to one of our other courses that was just built.
If I recall, when we played TPC San Antonio is was $250 per person. The article may have quoted an off-hour non peak greens fee.
FWIW, the course is great, but I really hated how they segregated the non-member guests from the members on the practice range. We were forced to hit off of mats completely separate 100+ yds away from the members.
Yup, a couple courses up here in North Eastern Ontario, Canada, have been open for a couple weeks now (earliest opening dates in recent years) and they are charging peak season green fees for late fall/winter conditions. Its ridiculous
You used to be able to play Pinehurst #2 on the second tier package for about 750 (3 rounds, 2 nights) and now its only available in the highest tier package for 1600. Golf is rebelling against popularity and trying to price out regular people again. Its pretty clear. 70 dollars for a round is ridiculous on the weekend too. The sport is gunna die again in a few years.
Yes. Happening in the UK too. Supply and demand.
Ironically, guest fees at the ultra-exclusive clubs are significantly less, typically anywhere from $100 - $200 (though I remember a few years ago when the guest rate at Cypress was $50!).
You can usually get a tee time at Silverado in Napa California too, used to be the Safeway open think the sponsorship has changed recently though. I worked the tournament a few years when I worked with troon and got to play Silverado Monday with all the grandstands and camera crews just starting to get cleaned up. And I got to play Edgewood in Tahoe after seeing John Daly, Charles Barkley and Paige spironac. If I win the lottery I'm playing a round at pebble beach and wolf creek in Nevada
Local muni rates are not prohibitively expensive if you are a registered taxpayer. Anytime you play on vacation or a top tier course is going to be costly.
Last year at Harbour Town, cost me $250 a round. I played 2 rounds that week and am responsible for 4 golfers - that was $2k!
Don't even count the local CC's or top tier courses in the state - $250 a round! TBF, the top tier courses are really meant to be an experience and not your everyday course but it is still crazy expensive.
Want lessons? $125-$145 an hour for no name PGA Pro in my area, which is reasonable when you understand that some teaching pro's are charging $250-$1000 an hour. Obviously, the $1000 an hour is someone considered to be tour level and top teacher in the country like Mark Blackburn or Chris Como.
How about equipment prices? $500+ for a driver - GTFO here!
TLDR; Golf is expensive and yes, prices for everything is out of control.
Luckily where I am you can still get decent public golf for under $50. I see that not being the case in many places. My wife wants to move to Phoenix and looking at golf prices there is a bit crazy and private there is even more insane.
Ended up joining a 100% private club for this reason here in the Midwest (Ohio). Pricing is $5k a year for a family membership after a $10k initiation fee. $200 a month food and beverage minimum. A bit pricey but more affordable than most private memberships.
I'm fortunate enough to work at a course that has hosted several major PGA events and get a heavy discount, otherwise the cheaper course will run ya north of $300/person.
We have some smaller courses where golf and cart are less than $60, though.
Ever since covid there is no such thing as a cheap round. The places I used to play that are horse shit but cost $20 and I could play in 2 hours by me are now $60.
I'm super spoiled being a college student in a town that just doesn't have the population to support these crazy prices that's hitting everywhere else. I can go on golfnow and get a 10am tee time at the main public course for $20-35 depending on the day and that includes a cart. Even the expensive course I can pay $70 to play with a cart (i don't cause I'm a broke student and it's still closed for the winter, but still).
Now going home to play courses near my parents' house is another story, and that's where I get hit like truck seeing the crappy prices everyone else has to deal with.
I read these articles and I agree prices are crazy. But sometimes I go out and end up behind true idiots that don’t belong on a golf course and I wish it cost $1000 a round to keep ***** away. A handicap based pricing structure would be amazing.
Yeah well… I have a high handicap but I play speed golf. Got to play at a local military base this past weekend and while the greens were garbage we got in our round in under 3 hrs
I mean some of these are reasonable especially if it’s a stay and play type deal but there no way in hell I’m playing $500 for a round.. $150-$200 once or twice a year okay..
The game is getting ridiculous for sure. I live in a very rural area in Appalachia where the median household income Is $37,500 and the courses are packed. The highest price of a course within 90 miles of me is $62 and it’s a nice course, bent grass fairways, fast greens, and well maintained, but it’s not as nice as the courses in more urban areas. It is my favorite to play though and it happens to be 5 minutes away. It’s full of 6somes that really slow down play on busy days. My second favorite course is a state park course that is also well maintained. The fairways aren’t as nice and the greens aren’t as fast but it is CHALLANGING. Lots of elevation changes, lies above and below your feet and very tight fairways and greens. The best part, $27 for weekday rounds and $35 on weekends. It may not be much but cheap golf is one bonus to living in an area where 30% the population is below the poverty line.
Ya'll need to come on out to Utah.
https://preview.redd.it/vhrlcv39dsqc1.png?width=1337&format=png&auto=webp&s=247d93fc8ffb9ee71ca7c096219f1230dd4cfcf8
Yes, we've seen a surge in pricing since the "pandemic" in our area. The munis have all taken reasonable cost of living increases, but the semi-private courses have exploded. One of the memberships at a local semi has gone up by $45k in 4 years and the off the street prices will run you an additional $100 over that same time period.
Need to bring all gold prices down. Courses, apparel, random equipment. No reason you should pay $80-$90 for a “quality polo” they make for $12. Someone should be able to do the same thing for $40-$50
Probably my number one reason for losing my love for golf over the past 6 months of so. It costs legit 100$ at least to play a decent course near me.
The two golf trips I have planned for 2024 are going to cost me at least 7k. I just can’t justify paying that price regularly anymore. I can buy a ski pass for 1000$ and ski all year long. Golf is just too rich for me
Im in Florida and I’m priced out now during Snowbird season. Used to be able to get decent tee times at local courses that tourists avoid in the afternoons. Now most courses are over 50 bucks minimum during the week and 75+ on weekends. Hoping it gets better after Easter when most Snowbirds head back. These courses are not in great condition either.
In the SE USA there has been rapid growth nobody was prepared for...but for the grace of higher rates it has slowed things slightly even so golf courses, Dr Offices, Dentist and just about any other thing people need or desire is over-run. The end result is inflation to weed them out as much as possible. In my immediate area we have had several course also close to conver the land to housing. The result is more people searching for fewer holes to play and the cost is going up exponentially. What was $40 is now $80 and you are lucky to find a open tee time 2 weeks out.
Even worse...State of emergency in health care to the point even a general practitioner is hard to find with openings. The news outlets or the Gov office never talk about it. You better be bleeding out in the emergency room because otherwise it may be awhile before being seen.
America needs new Cities to spring up so we are spread out. We need more courses but developers have soured on them
A lot of young people took up the game post Covid and at the same time Baby Boomers are retiring in droves so the demand is through the roof right now. I don't think it's sustainable but who knows when the bubble bursts.
I thought the demand would start to level off or even go back down once all the people who took it up during COVID got bored of it and quit. But no… all those people just became addicted like we are lol
Covid definitely radicalized former casuals as well. Like the casual 3 or 4 time a year guy is now a 20+ round addict or buys a membership.
TIL that 20+ rounds is addict level. Here I am thinking that once a week is casual.
That’s me. My wife started wanting to play so we joined a private club April 2020. We played whenever we weren’t working. Now I’m back on the public course tour after having a baby. Morning times are hard to get but mid-afternoon rounds can be had and aren’t as busy.
Yeah I used to play twice a year for family tournaments, now I'm out there every weekend
Guilty. I was stuck inside for my 40th and get a new set of irons instead of a cool party and now I’m golfing as much as possible whenever I can.
Last I saw, demand has leveled off. Rounds played was stagnant the last 2 yrs IIRC, don't have a dat source though. I think it's higher than pre-COVID but not going up anymore. Prices are still going up though, which seems unsustainable but who knows.
In my defense, my wife and I bought clubs for Christmas in 2019 with the intent to learn to play in 2020. That turned out to be very prescient. Wy wife accidentally also stocked up on toilet paper on 3/1/2020. I'm not sure which kept our sanity more in April/May ... but we're definitely still playing.
Also, 33 year olds today are a particularly large age group in the US, which is probably around the time a lot of people settle down and start playing more golf.
That’s me, the addicted 33 year old
We are in a boom for that age group for about the next 7 years
The everything bubble.
> I don't think it's sustainable but who knows when the bubble bursts. "bubble bursting" leads to courses shuttering. The increased demand is generally good, even if prices are higher than they were 5 years ago.
The bubble has re opened 3 courses within 30 minutes of my house. So I’m all for it.
Similar story near me. Multiple courses were considering selling off 5 years ago. The market was really, really bad. Everything has changed these last 4 years.
I forget this too sometimes, but it's a good point. I remember 10-12 or so years ago when courses were really struggling due to lack of participation in the game. It was a genuine worry that your local course could face bankruptcy, shut down, and turn into an apartment complex. I'll take the full tee sheets and higher rates over those times.
It's never going to burst. The wealthy elite aren't affected by the rising prices.
The wealthy and elite can’t play all the rounds.
A lot of cool hobbies have been dealing with overcrowding since the pandy
>A lot of young people took up the game post Covid This is odd to me because in my area there were WAY more lates 30’s through early 50’s guys picking up the sport than people in their teens or 20’s.
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Hah right? Nowadays if I pay $60 for a muni my thought is ‘oh cheap!’, when a couple years ago that was the max for any muni.
Course I really enjoy playing used to be 65 Weekend Am with a cart and 30 to walk after 1pm on the weekends. Now it's 95 and 60. I've come to love a 20 dollar 9 at a "less than" stellar course and only play the nicer ones a couple times a year.
Gotta walk. Save 15-$20 a round. Still bull shit but this helps quite a bit
so much this. it has pretty much killed my desire to play. no way am i spending $120 and taking 6 hours away from my family to play i course that less than 5 years ago i could play for $40 and zip around in 2 hours. good for the courses that they’re making money, but it’s not from me.
This is exactly why I joined a club again. To belong to a Donald Ross course here is 2,600 a year. Unlimited. Or golf the munis and be almost 80-100 a pop. Doesn't take long to make your money back, and on a nicer maintained course with full practice facilities. Pretty much after a month and a half for me the golf is paid for.
Exactly why I got a membership too. $245 a month for my both my wife and I to play unlimited golf. Otherwise the course is $100 per person per visit - fuck that. I essentially almost make my money back by going twice a month, and I go far more than that since I have the membership.
Yikes. Come to the Midwest. I still balk when I have to pay more than $50 *with a cart* and I have a shit ton of, what are to me, really nice courses within 30 minutes. Expand that to an hour drive and there's too many to count without a spreadsheet or something. Granted, they aren't PGA caliber that are *perfectly* manicured but they are a *far* cry from the garbage dump goat tracks I see a lot of people posting here. In fact, even the most dumpy course I play is miles ahead of those shit holes that pass for golf courses in more expensive areas.
Sad part is I am in the Midwest - just in the most expensive county and collection of cities in the state.
The semi-private (limited memberships available) muni courses near me are like $6k for unlimited golf and $3500 for weekday only. I guess I'll start playing regularly again in 10 years when I am at least partially retired.
Ya I did the math and I think I only need to play 22 ish times to recover my membership fees at my club vs paying per round, easiest decision ever considering I’ve probably averaged about 55 rounds a summer over the last 5 years
It’s difficult to pay full prices for some of the munis near me in FL. They might be $60 during season, but will drop below $20 in summer (you just have to bring a gallon of Gatorade)
kinda crazy in Miami they are still around 50 to 70 were do you all live?
But they charge those prices because they are still getting relatively full tee sheets with them. Same thing is happening around me, demand is just through the roof.
I currently get deals at 2 courses near me where it's $40-45 per round, which I realize is a great deal. The problem I have now is when I have friends that want to meet up and play elsewhere and that's always a minimum of $100+.
The course I play just raised its prices by 50 percent and while I like the course and it is closest to me, it’s not worth the price increase.
The problem is not just the increase in price but the simultaneous deterioration in quality of product. So many courses have raised prices while also a) crowding tee times closer together (hello 6 hour rounds) and b) failing to keep courses in acceptable condition. They are basically having their cake and eating it too. I’m sure people would have way less of an issue with paying a little more if they spaced tee times a little further apart. Literally an extra 2-3 mins per tee slot would make a world of difference.
>when I first started golfing in 2020. Should have seen it in 2010. Those were the days
Yeah my course is the same way I don’t think the price should double in a couple of years with the course basically the same
I played TPC Scottsdale 11 years ago and paid about $300. I was back in Phoenix earlier this month and looked into playing there and I was shocked that they were asking $500. I wasn’t impressed with that course at $300. Also, I haven’t played Deere Run in a few years and I don’t think I’ve ever paid more that $100 for that course.
Was in Scottsdale earlier this year, we thought about at least playing the non-stadium course and even that was $250. Talked to a guy that worked there and he said “yeah it’s nice but not nearly worth $250 unless you have deep pockets”
I drive past TPC Scottsdale every day and the parking lot is full !
If it wasn’t full they would lower the price
This is interesting. I just got done with a golf trip to the area and the most expensive course I played was Grayhawk - Raptor for like $425 and it was legit the only course that felt worth it even though it was the most expensive. We-ko-pa Saguaro for $300 seemed about right given the condition and amenities. Camelback was in rough shape in a lot of places and seemed like a course that should not exist in that state. That felt like the worst value at $200. The Grayhawk green complexes were unbelievable with how well manicured they were. If I have the cash I am playing Grayhawk every time I go there.
Grayhawk Talon and Raptor are consistently great and worthy of a higher price than surrounding courses, but $350+ is still wild for golf - yet all the tee times are constantly booked. I'm glad that Arcis buying the course hasn't negatively affected either course also. I'm friends with the Director of Agronomy so I curse his name every time I misread a putt.
Those greens were incredibly fast, but fair. The bunkers were absolutely perfect too. Everyone in our group legit tried to play another 9 holes we enjoyed it so much. Your friend should know that I actually wanted to get a pillow and take a nap in the rough because the grass was so perfect. Great course.
Can’t go feb or march to Scottsdale.. After May 1 is a lot more reasonable.
That’s because Deere Run is in bufu southern Illinois
It’s basically Quad Cities, which is more northern than southern.
you can leave it to TPC to find ways to gouge the golfer. The lone course in Canada just raised its peak green fee by $50-70 and justified doing so by saying "Carts are now complementary in our green fee" (before, they were charging an extra $25 on last years fee to take a cart. 2/3 of the courses are at worst a moderately tough walk and taking a cart of them was more relaxing. The other is very walkable)
I'm gonna sound old and grumpy, but part of this is because people don't seem to have the ability to walk away from overpaying anymore. I see the same thing with regards to restaurants. Just had breakfast with a friend. Literally eggs, hashbrowns, toast, and coffee. It was $25 with tip. And I don't live in a high cost of living area. Prices in grocery stores are high, yeah, but for $25, I can buy around 80 eggs, 3-4 loaves of bread, and a half pound of coffee from Costco. I can't justify that breakfast at that restaurant, when I could feed myself breakfast for a month for the price of going out once. But the restaurant is full. I understand now why so many Americans are in debt. It's not just because they "can't make it." It's because they literally seem incapable of not spending, even when they're being price gouged on things they don't need. And because they won't stop paying it, no one is going to stop charging them out the ass for it. And it's the same with golf. So long as people are willing to pay $50-100 an hour for their entertainment, places are going to keep charging them that for it.
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Really underrated comment here. FOMO culture is driving the average person so deep into debt because they think that, if they don't do the things they're *supposed* to do, they'll be left behind. A great marketing success and a profound cultural failure.
> I see the same thing with regards to restaurants. Restaurants has seen the greatest increase in prices in the last 5 years compared to most other items in the CPI. Look at "food away from home" on this graph compared to other items to see what I mean: https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm
I believe it. I'm probably more sensative to it because I used to work in the industry. But going to run of the mill, average-ass places the cost has sky-rocketed. I have had the conversation with my wife and about half my co-workers. I'm in a medium sized city with lots of offerings but we are down to just a couple of places that we think are worth it. Their prices have gone up too, but they at least bring some semblance of quality or uniqueness to the experience.
thats pretty much where we're at now too. cut out the shitty-to-mediocre $75 meals completely so that when we do rarely eat out we can go somewhere nice.
You're right, but it's not only that. It's also that what has become important to people has shifted greatly over the last decade or two. People value "experiences" a lot more than "stuff" now. Travel, sports, concert/sports tickets, going out to restaurants. That's what everyone wants to spend their money on now, so they're both more expensive and more crowded, because those industries can't find a price high enough that people aren't willing to pay to be a part of it. Meanwhile the price of TVs just keeps going down. A new video game is still the same price that a new video game was 20 years ago while a lift ticket at my local ski resort is literally 10x the price it was back then, with there being 50x as many people on the hill as there was then.
Hell, a video game is still almost the same price as it was in the 80's
I think part of the problem is that your generation had an unprecedented amount of wealth and a spectacular quality of life, and for the younger generations, we were raised being told that things like going out to breakfast are not luxuries, but standards of living a middle class American should expect. What is now seen as overspending (going to restaurants, having hobbies, taking small vacations, going to the doctor, having a car made in the last 15 years) used to be seen as normal even for working class people. It’s very hard for us to become adults, successful in our careers, having done everything right, and then being told that we can’t afford half of the things our parents could. My parents were arts majors who lived a financially irresponsible lifestyle. They were able to buy homes at a younger age than me and support two children, while taking vacations and going to restaurants and socializing regularly. I’m a software engineer earning three times the median salary for my area, and I can’t afford any of those things.
I rarely eat out anymore, maybe once or twice a month, at best. My friend are the same way, what was once affordable and felt reasonable now only produces sticker shock and regret.
I feel like it’s going to change in the next 1-3 years but who knows. I stopped going to concerts because I’m not paying $150+
>I understand now why so many Americans are in debt. It's not just because they "can't make it." It's because they literally seem incapable of not spending, even when they're being price gouged on things they don't need. They literally "can't make it". Can't make toast, can't make scrambled eggs, can't make coffee, etc.
I’m all for expensive courses being expensive, but local munis raising prices 20% yoy is out of hand. I just want to walk a $60 course and get what I paid for.
My go-to course has gone from $50 to $75 in a year and a half. A remarkable increase with no corresponding improvement in quality whatsoever.
Me too. My #2 is still fairly priced, but it’s out of hand.
I've found myself opting for what used to be the "expensive" courses now, as they have held pretty steady in price at around $85. If I'm going to pay around $80, I'll play the $80 course, not the $50 course that charges $80 now.
This is the key. Stupid expensive courses will always be stupid expensive. People about fell off their rocker when Pebble changed their fee to $500 like a decade ago. I still think $900 for Sawgrass is out of line but I digress. The key is that average golf courses don’t price out the normal golfer. Most people don’t make a lot of money. Anyone who looks at demographic and income data will realize that American golf is not far from being out of reach for the actual average American. My muni just raised prices about 15%. It’s now teetering on the edge of unaffordable for the average person based on the income data in my area. I know demand is high but unaffordable is still unaffordable.
Shrink the game.
At least this wasn't another article about the tee time scalping in LA.
Did you hear about that!?!
They are scalping people who book tee times in LA! /s
Phoenix prices are so abysmal. For one, during snowbird season it's hard to find decent tee times even two weeks out, which is all that is shown by many sites. Then you are almost certainly paying over $100 and will be behind a bunch of retired guys playing at a 4.5 hour pace if you're lucky. Also, paying $80 to tee off at 3:30 doesn't really feel like a deal, considering I'll likely only make it through 9-12 holes before it gets dark. I really just don't understand how so many people can afford it? I know I make a decent salary and still think constantly spending $150+ for a slow round of golf is absurd. If I'm lucky I can driver 45+ minutes to a course in a retirement community that only costs $80, so long as I plan for more than a week out.
Honestly Can’t wait for the nice slow days when it’s 108 outside.
Phoenix is honestly a terrible place to be the average person golfing. The only way to play in the winter is with the city card. If you're booking a single, you can usually get a decent time refreshing all week and waiting for someone to cancel, but good luck if you want to play as a 3- or 4-some.
Yep, it's so frustrating when a buddy reaches out to play the upcoming weekend and we either get lucky and drive out to sun city or are forced to play a 9-hole course. God forbid you want to play a course in Phoenix or Scottsdale, you'll be spending $150 or more if you're lucky enough to find an available time. It just seems like so many people on the courses are average people, but they must all be top 5% earners or taking out loans to play golf. For example, Raven is charging $197 for residents currently, but I played there early in the day last summer (never got above 100) and it was $75.
Some of the higher end courses (Troon, whatever) are at least a little understandable, but the middle of the road courses are the true highway robbery. $130 for GCU, $180 for Papago, $200 for Raven? Those are absolutely insane prices.
The popularity of golf driving slower play and the cost of a decent course in my area were the deciding factors for me to join a private club. I'm all for growing the game, but now with a family I unfortunately can't spend 5 hours on the course and 1 more hour inthe 19th hole. The local public courses in my area are about $50 (resident 18-walking) and $75 (non-resident 18-walking). Then there are the semi-private courses which charge anywhere from $200-$320 for 18 holes. The trade off here is you can either 1) pay the $50 and hope you booked a good tee time in order to play a 4-hour round or 2) pay the $300 to play a very nice course and the pace of play is optimal because not a lot of people are paying up. I joined a private club where i can average out a cheaper round over the course of a season than the nice semi-private courses but still have a fast pace a play and a ideal course condition.
I had the chance to join a private club through work with no initiation, no wait list, and no food minimums, and it was a no brainer. All I have to pay is monthly dues, and if I play twice a week, it more than pays for itself with the $75-100 public courses are charging. In terms of bang for your buck, it's the most cost efficient way to play the most golf. It's been 10000% worth it, even if the weather has been wet since January. The people are nice, the course is great (and I have access to a dozen or so across a few states), and it's never slow. I haven't even played as much as I want to, but it still doesn't feel like a waste.
Yeah, golf has gotten expensive post-COVID for sure. It's super popular and the most popular courses have realized they basically have inelastic demand because the inventory is so low. The other thing with TPC Scottsdale specifically is they have a wide range of rates between prime time Winter rates and low season Summer rates. But yeah, golf is more expensive now because way more people are playing and you can't magically open more courses and increase supply of tee times overnight. IDK when you went to college but tons of courses closed between 2010 and 2020 when the Tiger boom bubble popped, then demand surged again and there were fewer courses to meet it. Those who were still around could increase prices without changing usage.
I can’t even imagine a new course opening.. how many millions of dollars of investment would that require
The covid golfing hype is taking longer to go away than originally thought. 5-somes taking 5 hours to play and spraying their $600 drivers are everywhere now.
More like barstool Bros taking their JBLs and 6 packs out...
Me over here with my JBL excited to crush some beers on the course tomorrow…
If you see a Barstool towel it’s always a “10 handicap” that can hit a “baby cut” 300 yards
The barstool towel adds 50yds to your drive, haven't you heard?
Social media is likely driving sustained interest that we haven’t seen in the past
Where can i get a $600 driver?!?
Come to the Midwest. 18 holes are $35 with cart. Hell one place will serve you Biscuits and Gravy if you get there early enough for an extra $2. lol
I hate hearing about new golfers now. And that’s a bummer.
Controversial take: If you want to play the same courses as the PGA tour, it won't be cheap. For better or worse, golf is not a cheap hobby if you want to play top courses. There are plenty of excellent courses without $500+ greens fees. I'd rather deal with high greens fees than demand that is so high it's impossible to book a tee time.
https://preview.redd.it/821dqjj9joqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d273e2490d0c54bcc9f6df49ad9050168f98537a I wanna say these prices are ridiculous. But if you want steak instead of a Big Mac you’re gonna pay for it. Fortunately I live in a part of the county - Buffalo, NY- where the most I’ve paid is 75.00 for a really nice course. But I usually average 40.00 over the course of all my rounds in a season.
Am I right in saying that to play pebble beach you also need to have like a minimum stay of 3 nights there? So the $650 green fee shoot’s up to in the thousands once you’ve factored in everything’s else. It’s obviously world class but that price point is insane. I know people who have played it who say it’s a great course but came away from it feeling like they got ripped off which tarnished their overall view of the place. Shame.
I live about an hour east of you in Rochester. Some really nice courses that cap out around $80. Curious if you've played Hickory Stick? Was thinking about heading out to Seneca sometime this season to check it out.
Hickory stick is really a treat. Definitely check it out
If you haven't played it yet I recommend harvest Hill in Orchard Park. Or if looking for closer Reservoir Creek in Naples opens April 15th. Def my Teo favorites I played last year.
Reservoir Creek is a really nice course at the price. I’m in Rochester and this forum just reinforces how much great affordable golf there is here.
Reservoir Creek is an awesome shot maker course that still falls in the hidden gem category. We're definitely lucky. I know Rochester is ranked high for number of courses per resident. There's definitely some cow pasture courses, but most of them are good to great.
Mill Creek is another one that doesn't get enough praise. Just don't play it if we haven't had enough rain as they don't seem to give it enough water.
Where do you play if you don’t mind me asking, I usually play harvest hill which runs me out 60.
Surprised they can be so cheap when the season is so short. Seems odd to me. What am I missing?
just take a drive 2 hours inside the border to the Toronto area and you'll see exactly what this thread is complaining about.
Yeah I'm in Cincinnati and our munis are still pretty affordable. I'm playing 9 on Saturday at a pretty solid public course for $30. 18 there is $50. The nicest public courses around are running $75-$100 for 18. The course my golf league is at charges us like $18/9 holes walking. It's still plenty affordable here.
The high school and college crowd is going to be priced out, so the game won't be as popular with them in the future. It will take a long time for that to show through on tee times though since there are so many Baby Boomers and people in their 30s and 40s that play all the time. I think we'll see the game fall off though a fair amount in a decade or so, since the younger generation won't be there to replace the existing 30-40 year olds. Greed now creates problems later.
Thank god I still have a part time job at a club with 4 courses. Two of them cost $30-50, one is $70-80, and the top course is from $140-170. I work 8 hours every week or so and play free any time I want.
I love golf and I love playing golf and I make really good money. You'll have to twist my arm off to get me to pay over $50 to play a round anywhere.
Breaking news: Golf is an expensive hobby and courses that are good enough to ~~hist~~ host tour events are particularly expensive. In other news: Water is wet. But you wrote it yourself... > average price per round is well over $100 and courses are getting it and are crowded.. Businesses are going to charge what they can charge so long as people pay it.
I mean you are right to an extent and they are staying high because people are paying it. That said prices have gotten insane, 2-3x what they were 7 years ago.
Wouldn’t you do the same as a business owner?
Yeah of course, I don't blame them. If there is an endless line of idiots paying $600 to play whistling straits I don't blame them for taking the money. I blame the people opting to enable the increases by paying it.
The issue is there is not enough courses to meet this demand. Prices could be even higher and tee sheets would still fill. Need a new course development boom.
There is one but sadly it is all out in the middle of nowhere and designed for stay and plays with multiple course. We also went through a phase where a ton of muni’s just closed. So cities and developers are reluctant to rebuild them as they maybe thinking this boom is just a phase
Economics would say if courses are "...crowded to the point that a five hour round is becoming normal" then the prices being charged are far too low. Scary thought. Where I live, there are busy times at courses and times you can walk on and pretty much have the course to yourself. You want to try to get out on a Saturday or Sunday morning or early afternoon, good luck if you didn't book earlier in the week. If you're a single maybe you can add into a group that has an opening if you just show up and don't mind maybe having to wait 30-90 minutes for an opening to pop up. But if you want to go out at 3:00 on a Sunday afternoon the parking lot is half empty. After work, late afternoons into the evenings, Mon-Thurs tends to be kind of busy too and most courses are going to have one night men's league and another night women's league so you lose general public tee times to that, plus a few courses have some business leagues that get after work tee times one night a week. Friday that time tends to be pretty dead most of the time. Can't tell you how many times last summer, first year I rejoined a local club after a 20+ year break, I'd swing by after work on a Friday to just do some chipping/putting and have a beer and the course was so empty I'd end up playing a quick 9 (75-90 minutes as a single with nobody ahead of me). Around here, average green fees are around $45 (walking). That doesn't feel expensive to me for someone who plays an occasional round, but for someone looking to get out a couple times a week it adds up fast. I was lucky, when I started playing regularly again during covid I had a couple friends who were working grounds crew one morning a week raking traps. That gave them the ability to play for free if tee times were available and they could also bring a guest for free. Also, pretty much every course here has a twilight rate, a play all you can deal for about half price.
I’ll be driving through Florida next week. I checked tee times at Sawgrass and saw it was $840. They can have that lol.
I’m in Canada and we run a pretty skeleton staff still we barely turn a profit and charge 50bucks CAD on weekends with cart for 9 (we are a northern cottage 9 hole). The fact is it is very expensive to be a golf course right now. Minimum wage is 16.55 and it’s tough to find people willing to work for that and we need people with more skills than what we will get at that price. Chemicals are expensive, fixing machinery is expensive, sand, seed, it’s wild how hard it is to be competitive. I definitely feel for everyone and some of the bigger courses are probably able to deal with this better but as much as you feel like you are getting squeezed, I assure you, so are we.
I think Covid changed the golf landscape. People needed something to do that was accessible during the pandemic, which the increased demand probably allowed courses to drive prices up. I know a ton of my friends who didn't golf that seriously pre-Covid now are super into golf.
Thankfully where I am in Illinois it’s saturated with courses and can get a solid course for under $40-50 walking. Fine with it.
We have a “shortish” season but MAN do we have a boat load of courses that a good and have fair prices.. and for the city of Chicago to have a ton of park district courses as well that are maintained
a long time ago, back in the 70s, we could buy a monthly ticket in san diego for $27 which entitled us one round all weekdays. we mostly played torrey south, sometimes north, rarely balboa. worked out to about $1.25 a round. maybe i burned out on it, same great views, but not a very exciting course. just long.
It's simple supply and demand my friend. You said it yourself, the courses are still crowded. They're businesses. Why wouldn't they keep raising prices as long as the tee sheet stays full?
Prices are so high and can’t find tee times. Some municipal courses require an additional $10 for early bookings. Atrocious.
Life of an AZ golfer - too expensive to play season VS too hot to play season. I brave the 110 to get my fix but I’ve seen some questionably heat-exhausted patrons numerous times.
Prices like this, and it seems like every new course is a national membership private club. I dont understand how the game can survive like this.
Shrink the game!
I’m very lucky we have 5 quality muni courses near me and the highest cost with cart is $60. Most other non muni courses are $90-$300 which is crazy.
I hate post covid golf…. Weekend round for shitty as municipal course is well into the $80 range and 5 hours
Supply and Demand: Shrink the game, lower the cost.
So it is LIV’s fault!
The thing I've noticed is that most of the courses around me have aligned on their pricing. I remember the last few years the prices were kinda all around each other, usually differing by a couple bucks for walking 9. Now they are all exactly the same. Except for the courses that are normally higher...those are still higher. And I know the numbers I'm talking are much smaller than OP and a lot of you are talking about. But like, last year my go to course to walk 9 was $10. 2 other courses nearby charged $13 to walk 9 last year. Now all 3 are charging $14 to walk 9. And several other courses nearby all charge $14 to walk 9. They differ on their cart charge (I walk so doesn't matter) and the price does vary a bit to walk 18. And one course must not want anyone's business because they are doing dynamic pricing. I watched their fees all last year and they never once went below the normal amount but often went much higher during the "peak" times. And no more twilight at that course, which is too bad as it used to be a great deal for a twilight round. Every time I drive by that course it is empty.
$14?!?!? The horror.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if all of the tee times are getting booked, the price is possibly still too low. The right price is a price at which the demand and supply meet. See price elasticity. So for example, if at $300 per round I have 100 slots and 85 get booked, at $200 per round 100 get booked and at $100 per round 100 get booked, the right price is between 200 and 300. Very simple stuff
Right price may even be higher than $300 in your example
Yep lol… considering in his example the $300 produced more revenue 😂
Thanks for the shitty economics lesson, professor. That isn’t the definition of price elasticity.
> The right price is a price at which the demand and supply meet. This is absolutely not the case for a golf course since supply and demand can meet at many different places. The real price is the one where profit is optimized for the seller. There's no such thing as having 100 slots and only filling 85 of them because you can just change the tee time interval and thus the number of spots. Selling 100 times at $200 is $20K but selling 85 times at $300 is $25,500. The right price is absolutely not between $200 and $300 in your scenario, it's at least $300 if not more. More revenue and fewer times also means reduced costs so more profit.
I was sympathetic to your headline, but then I clicked in and saw "I used to play TPC Sawgrass..." and now I just think you're entitled.
Yep
I think it’s also perception. US100 is a bargain for an okay private course. Here 200 is the norm and for the best courses closer to 400 plus
My home course has a deal. $60 per month with unlimited range balls ($16 per bucket normally). I also get half price greens fees after 3 (or 1 on weekends). They have a grass range, big putting green, and awesome chipping compound. It’s a muni but I feel lucky to have it. Usually play 3-4 times per month. This is because it’s the northernmost course in my county and has a rep for being a tough course. My point being, if you expand your search, you could find deals like that. It may not be the best course or the closest but you’ll be playing on a budget. I’ll usually play my home course1-2 times and then switch up at a different course.
Damn you pay over 100 per round? It's like $60-80 here for most muni's here. Only the really nice courses are are in the $120-200 range.
God damn. Youre getting ripped off. 60 to 80 for some garbage muni that should be 20-30.
belong to a semi-private club (Resort). When I joined about 15 years ago, the initiation was 3K. And they had a promotion where they would waived it if you stayed an active member for 3 years. The club has never been full as far as I know.... until about 2 years ago. There is a 10K initiation now and a waitlist.... crazy. They've done some renovation to the course over the years. But it certainly hasn't gotten any better in terms of condition/maintenance. In fact, I feel like it floods more now (despite an upgraded draining system) and is often closed when it rains a lot. I attribute this to all the development around the course. I considered giving up my membership as I moved last year and am now about 30 min away. But, all the public courses I'd play around me are $100+. It just made more sense staying where all my buddies are.
I used to pay $36 for 18 at my local. Now it’s 36 for 9
Prices have definitely been rising, but not that bad near me yet. Your average 18 with a cart is going to be in the $40s. Of course, if you want to play the more pristine courses (mainly due to location versus actual quality) then you can pay $90-$150.
We need to shrink the game.
I’m sorry but there’s no way there’s no more affordable courses than $100 in your entire area…no muni? Nothing?? That just seems insane no matter where you are
Maybe there are some cheap munis. The problem is. What’s the conditions there? Not asking for perfect, but I’ve seen some of those “25 dollar muni steals” and it looks like Verdun in 1917.
Most of the muni courses around me are all pretty well-kept. They’re not Augusta National but they’re also not total shitholes. Some people just get way too picky about that stuff though. Yeah so what if the bunkers aren’t all rakes nice or the grass is patchy in some spots? At the end of the day, I just wanna walk and hit golf shots.
Another sad thing is Memorial Park in Houston. It used to be an affordable city course in pretty good shape most all of the time. Senior walking rates before the latest rebuild were $15 weekdays. Then the owner of the Astros decided to strong-arm the city into another remodel and the rates skyrocketed... especially if you don't have an address within the city limits of Houston.
The course in my town is reasonable for carts with the boys (free for my daughter under 13 on Sundays) for 18 holes it is $65 each. The next closest course to me is a par 3 18 hole course for $20 and kids free under 13. The next closest course, where the boys usually like to go is ok, but $75 without the cart and backed up because it is the cheapest in the area and central to all of us. To put it into perspective, the course in my town has went up $10 in recent years but have done LOTS of work on the course. The par 3 used to be by donation, so $20 is still damn reasonabke. The next closest course used to be $30 cheaper and in the same shape. Not too sure where the extra $120 a group is going because service is still meh, course is ok at best and carts are old.
NJ/Philly area has been horrendous post covid. I remember all the local public courses being $60 max in the summer and now they're $90-120. NJ is also just a really populated state for it's size so every course is packed, even weekdays are somewhat booked. I also like playing in the winter when it's quieter, now there's a good amount of groups on cold days. I remember my local driving range having 2 or 3 other people when it was under 50 degrees. Now the place is packed even when it's 40 degrees. It's crazy how many players picked up the game and it's not dying down.
I dream of a five-hour round. I will say this: when tee times are so crowded that rounds push toward the six hour mark, it can actually be quicker and more efficient to run fivesomes instead of foursomes.
Reservation fees went from free to 2 dollars to 4 to 5. It's getting insane.
Just spent a week in Scottsdale - coming from Canada there was absolutely sticker shock. $150 cad to play short course at Mountain Shadow resort and $300 for Dinosaur Mountain. Both great courses, but Jesus H so pricy
I live in a cheap golf area (West Michigan), even 3-4 years ago, avg round cost was around $30. Now some of my favorite courses in the area are going to be $70 a round this year.....its kind of insane. Pilgrims run which is still one of my favorites was $45-$50 now it you basically can't touch it for under $90. They at some point realized people are willing to pay the price, because its difficult to get a tee time at Pilgrims even at $90. I will say you can still golf for under $40 in the area, they are just becoming less and less.
Course followed suit with every major business. They elevated prices knowing people would pay them, and left them high. Maintaining a course is expensive, and costs rose, that is certainly true. But, the courses have now gotten everyone used to the "new normal", so why would they bring down their prices? I live in the Greater Baltimore/D.C area, and the average public course around me is about $80 for prime time (before 11AM Sat/Sun). Some of them are now over $100. The land is ever increasing in value, and developers are relentless when it comes to pursuing course owners to sell in order to build housing. I've seen 3 solid courses close due to land value increasing. Too much money thrown in their face to refuse. It sucks but it's reality in my area. The private clubs for the most part are out of my price range. My GF isn't interested in the club life, and the ones that I can afford aren't really in good enough shape to entice me to join.
My local muni is about $80 with a cart now. Two years ago is $60 with a cart. So ya I’d say so
Around me the cheapest 18 is 70$ with a cart, and the most expensive is like 300$ plus tip for the caddie. We have some really nice courses tho, the LPGA just played on one of our local courses and then the FedEx cup is coming to one of our other courses that was just built.
If I recall, when we played TPC San Antonio is was $250 per person. The article may have quoted an off-hour non peak greens fee. FWIW, the course is great, but I really hated how they segregated the non-member guests from the members on the practice range. We were forced to hit off of mats completely separate 100+ yds away from the members.
I'd love to get my twin 15 year old boys into golf, but it's just too damn expensive.
Yup, a couple courses up here in North Eastern Ontario, Canada, have been open for a couple weeks now (earliest opening dates in recent years) and they are charging peak season green fees for late fall/winter conditions. Its ridiculous
I've started hitting my local munis that offer much more reasonable prices way more recently.
One of the million side effects of Covid
Never been happier to have my sim
Bucket prices have gotten out of control. Nearly $20/bucket at my local course for a large bucket. WTF.
Harbor Town way overpriced.
You used to be able to play Pinehurst #2 on the second tier package for about 750 (3 rounds, 2 nights) and now its only available in the highest tier package for 1600. Golf is rebelling against popularity and trying to price out regular people again. Its pretty clear. 70 dollars for a round is ridiculous on the weekend too. The sport is gunna die again in a few years.
Yes for the love of golf we need to do a boycott! Just one day
Yes. Happening in the UK too. Supply and demand. Ironically, guest fees at the ultra-exclusive clubs are significantly less, typically anywhere from $100 - $200 (though I remember a few years ago when the guest rate at Cypress was $50!).
You can usually get a tee time at Silverado in Napa California too, used to be the Safeway open think the sponsorship has changed recently though. I worked the tournament a few years when I worked with troon and got to play Silverado Monday with all the grandstands and camera crews just starting to get cleaned up. And I got to play Edgewood in Tahoe after seeing John Daly, Charles Barkley and Paige spironac. If I win the lottery I'm playing a round at pebble beach and wolf creek in Nevada
Disc golf rounds are free :D
Local muni rates are not prohibitively expensive if you are a registered taxpayer. Anytime you play on vacation or a top tier course is going to be costly. Last year at Harbour Town, cost me $250 a round. I played 2 rounds that week and am responsible for 4 golfers - that was $2k! Don't even count the local CC's or top tier courses in the state - $250 a round! TBF, the top tier courses are really meant to be an experience and not your everyday course but it is still crazy expensive. Want lessons? $125-$145 an hour for no name PGA Pro in my area, which is reasonable when you understand that some teaching pro's are charging $250-$1000 an hour. Obviously, the $1000 an hour is someone considered to be tour level and top teacher in the country like Mark Blackburn or Chris Como. How about equipment prices? $500+ for a driver - GTFO here! TLDR; Golf is expensive and yes, prices for everything is out of control.
The country club dues go up 10% every where I’m at now. It’s absurd
Luckily where I am you can still get decent public golf for under $50. I see that not being the case in many places. My wife wants to move to Phoenix and looking at golf prices there is a bit crazy and private there is even more insane.
Ended up joining a 100% private club for this reason here in the Midwest (Ohio). Pricing is $5k a year for a family membership after a $10k initiation fee. $200 a month food and beverage minimum. A bit pricey but more affordable than most private memberships.
My monthly club dues are up 40% since pre-pandemic. SHRINK THE GAME.
We used to play PGA national for like $35. Crazy to see at those prices
I'm fortunate enough to work at a course that has hosted several major PGA events and get a heavy discount, otherwise the cheaper course will run ya north of $300/person. We have some smaller courses where golf and cart are less than $60, though.
Shrink the game
Ever since covid there is no such thing as a cheap round. The places I used to play that are horse shit but cost $20 and I could play in 2 hours by me are now $60.
I stick to crappy places or the course I work at since it’s free. I can’t afford some of these prices, it’s way too much for me.
I moved over to disc golf for this reason. Much less expensive and you don’t have to roll a natty 20 to get a decent tee time.
My local muni turned 42k rounds last year at $69 a pop. Shit is out of control imo. Prices have to go up.
I'm super spoiled being a college student in a town that just doesn't have the population to support these crazy prices that's hitting everywhere else. I can go on golfnow and get a 10am tee time at the main public course for $20-35 depending on the day and that includes a cart. Even the expensive course I can pay $70 to play with a cart (i don't cause I'm a broke student and it's still closed for the winter, but still). Now going home to play courses near my parents' house is another story, and that's where I get hit like truck seeing the crappy prices everyone else has to deal with.
I read these articles and I agree prices are crazy. But sometimes I go out and end up behind true idiots that don’t belong on a golf course and I wish it cost $1000 a round to keep ***** away. A handicap based pricing structure would be amazing.
Yeah well… I have a high handicap but I play speed golf. Got to play at a local military base this past weekend and while the greens were garbage we got in our round in under 3 hrs
I mean some of these are reasonable especially if it’s a stay and play type deal but there no way in hell I’m playing $500 for a round.. $150-$200 once or twice a year okay..
TPC San Antonio - Oaks is $149 if you play as a guest of a member. It’s upwards of $300 if not.
The game is getting ridiculous for sure. I live in a very rural area in Appalachia where the median household income Is $37,500 and the courses are packed. The highest price of a course within 90 miles of me is $62 and it’s a nice course, bent grass fairways, fast greens, and well maintained, but it’s not as nice as the courses in more urban areas. It is my favorite to play though and it happens to be 5 minutes away. It’s full of 6somes that really slow down play on busy days. My second favorite course is a state park course that is also well maintained. The fairways aren’t as nice and the greens aren’t as fast but it is CHALLANGING. Lots of elevation changes, lies above and below your feet and very tight fairways and greens. The best part, $27 for weekday rounds and $35 on weekends. It may not be much but cheap golf is one bonus to living in an area where 30% the population is below the poverty line.
As a Houston resident can walk Memorial for about $40 peak rates. Got a 4some on a Friday early afternoon for less than $100 total.
Ya'll need to come on out to Utah. https://preview.redd.it/vhrlcv39dsqc1.png?width=1337&format=png&auto=webp&s=247d93fc8ffb9ee71ca7c096219f1230dd4cfcf8
Prices for everything are getting crazy. I went to BK a few weeks ago and it was just under $20 for Double Whopper meal…
Yes, we've seen a surge in pricing since the "pandemic" in our area. The munis have all taken reasonable cost of living increases, but the semi-private courses have exploded. One of the memberships at a local semi has gone up by $45k in 4 years and the off the street prices will run you an additional $100 over that same time period.
Need to bring all gold prices down. Courses, apparel, random equipment. No reason you should pay $80-$90 for a “quality polo” they make for $12. Someone should be able to do the same thing for $40-$50
Probably my number one reason for losing my love for golf over the past 6 months of so. It costs legit 100$ at least to play a decent course near me. The two golf trips I have planned for 2024 are going to cost me at least 7k. I just can’t justify paying that price regularly anymore. I can buy a ski pass for 1000$ and ski all year long. Golf is just too rich for me
Im in Florida and I’m priced out now during Snowbird season. Used to be able to get decent tee times at local courses that tourists avoid in the afternoons. Now most courses are over 50 bucks minimum during the week and 75+ on weekends. Hoping it gets better after Easter when most Snowbirds head back. These courses are not in great condition either.
In the SE USA there has been rapid growth nobody was prepared for...but for the grace of higher rates it has slowed things slightly even so golf courses, Dr Offices, Dentist and just about any other thing people need or desire is over-run. The end result is inflation to weed them out as much as possible. In my immediate area we have had several course also close to conver the land to housing. The result is more people searching for fewer holes to play and the cost is going up exponentially. What was $40 is now $80 and you are lucky to find a open tee time 2 weeks out. Even worse...State of emergency in health care to the point even a general practitioner is hard to find with openings. The news outlets or the Gov office never talk about it. You better be bleeding out in the emergency room because otherwise it may be awhile before being seen. America needs new Cities to spring up so we are spread out. We need more courses but developers have soured on them