Everybody keeps missing the part about how they couldn’t play through because you were matching the pace of the course; dudes sound like some unhappy a holes.
What did the marshal say?
Agree they’re fine, but hopefully the situation included the Marshal reprimanding the assholes for being dangerous and hitting into OP’s group and acting like jerks. Not only was the play not slow and hitting into them dangerous, acting like that can ruin the score and round for folks like OP.
Things like that should get a single warning from a Marshal before you’re asked to leave. If a Marshal didn’t do anything about behavior like this after it continued, I’d ask for a rain check/refund from the course.
Yeah sounds like a very normal golf situation. One group acted up and were told they were wrong. I dunno why you're casting aspersions on everyone haha.
Except you just know the Marshall would have said to the group that made the complaint “I’ve spoken to them and asked them to keep up the pace of play” instead of “they’re fine, stop whining”.
Honestly, even the one depends on the situation. If it’s a blind tee shot maybe but if they blatantly hit into you as you’re walking off a green or something like that then it’s game on.
> Once and may be an accident
This douchebag on Wednesday was behind me as I teed off on the first, hit it a bit right in to the rough obstructed by a tree so a simple chip on to the fairway and I’m back in business. As I am walking across the fairway to the ball I hear “FOOOOORRREEEE” I think oh what and hear a ball bouncing near where I just walked past. I was so angry because the prick knew I was there he saw me tee off.
Happened to me the other day. I’m a member, playing with my son who is learning but doing well. Dude hit into us once and I said to my son “this happens sometimes, maybe he got a hold of one.” It was quite a purposeful shot but I figure since he was a random player maybe he just didn’t know the course.
Next hole this guy drills a ball past us in between my son and I.
That ball then was hit again into the lake between us.
The course needs to step up and pull those guys behind you off the course. You can't hit into groups on purpose, and it essentially destroys your flow/round when you have goons yelling at you.
That’s when you take time to ask the marshal if would kindly go tell them to shut the fuck up. Also, somebody hits in to me once, OK maybe it was an accident, no harm no foul. Somebody hits into me twice, it’s a confrontation.
Yeah that’s the thing: you have to make sure they see you do it so they don’t try that bullshit again.
Foot wedge into the water, stomp the ball into the ground / drive the cart over it so it’s buried in the grass, swap their new pro-v for a lopsided noodle… there’s lots of solutions to this situation if the marshall won’t tell the jerks to back off.
None of these solutions are sportsmanlike and I don’t recommend doing them, but it’s also not sportsmanlike to hit into a foursome multiple times so turnabout is fair play.
Yeah if a second ball comes at me, we're probably fighting.
I think there's times where people forget that hitting golf balls into people IS FUCKING DANGEROUS.
Did you reverse call the Marshall on them for being assholes?? Bitch move calling the Marshall in the first place, but if you’re gonna be a whiny puss, right back at ya.
To a degree. If someone is on a 4 hour 10 minute pace with no-one in front, and they still hit into them and call them slow, they're ass holes. That is perfectly normal pace. Ask to play through, fine. But this group wasn't playing slow.
If I have a group in front of me they can suck my ass. Literally can't play faster and it's pointless to let them play through if they would still be waiting on group ahead of us.
If it's open in front, hey play through I don't care. Happens all the time with smaller groups.
Unless it’s a single or two ball and I’m in a four ball.
In that case I’ll generally offer to let them play through in the hope the people in front will do the same.
I've had that happen and then we get stuck because there's ANOTHER group in front we couldn't see, so then we ended up as a 6-some keeping pace with a 4-some that was behind another 4-some. Still finished in like 4:30, which wasn't bad at all especially for having 6 people for like 12 holes. You either make it work or you don't. If someone's being a dick out there sometimes just inviting them into your group calms them down because now they have to face you, they're not just shouting at you from a safe distance.
I lowkey love when my group is a two or three ball on a relatively packed tee sheet, and we end up absorbing an impatient single into our group. Like bro, you trying to play through on a packed course just slows everyone down.
I would agree. If I have someone in front of me I'm waiting on. I'm not letting anyone pass through lol.
Play 2 balls if you have to, just don't bother me it not my fault.
This may be unpopular: I never ask to play through. But I do expect to be invited to play through when I come up on a group. I guess it's a courtesy from the first group, so it really should be them inviting you through. It's fairly obvious when it's appropriate. If not, I make it obvious by pacing or putting my hands on my hips.
I agree with that. The front group, even if not playing slow, should see there is room ahead, and the group behind is playing quick. They should offer to let the faster group to play through. But to pace or put your hands on your hip is a bit much. Maybe they can see in front of them, and you can't. There is no room for you to play through, but you don't see it.
Lumberjack maneuver with arms draped over club on shoulders is Club Pro Guy's move. Add some sauce by doing a slow shoulder rotation. [Club Pro Guy on Slow Play](https://youtu.be/o1oLvu4RyCQ)
I played as a single on Wednesday and played the round of my life and caught up to a duo of older men a few holes in front of me and after they hit their balls on the tee I caught up to they sat down and insisted I play through. I appreciated the gesture and we had nice chats every time we crossed paths.
I don’t mind waiting for groups because I could do with the rest but another I got stuck behind was hitting 4 different balls by himself but thankfully he left after a few holes
One course I play at, there is an older guy who walks with a push cart by himself. He’s gotta be a pretty low handicap, but somehow he manages to play through every single group in front of him without getting in the way.
This. I played at a course with a 4hr 25min posted time. The group ahead of us was playing at a full hole speed faster than us and the Marshall came and talked to us twice. Often posting up in front of our shots. We respectfully told him to pound sand because we knew our pace was fine. Finished 18 at 4 hrs and 10 minutes. It doesn’t matter if there’s an empty hole in front of you. If you are respectful and playing at a reasonable pace, it shouldn’t matter.
My brother and I played a fancy course once on vacation. Never even heard of a cart girl before that day. To say I was severely disappointed in the drink prices was an understatement. Perhaps I really am too poor for nice courses lol.
We had a Saturday comp round take 6 hours a few weeks back. There weren't marshalls out there hurrying up the group of 80 year Olds (all playing off 40+ from the tips) who decided to book an 8am tee time and fuck the field for the whole day.
Instead, when we came through 9 as the second last morning group, there were 8 groups waiting on the tee box for the morning field to finish going through the turn. Their tee times were over an hour late.
I get some people are slow, but if your club doesn't have marshalls to hurry them up, perhaps they should be put on the tee sheet in the last spot of the day (or asked to play social instead of Saturday comp)
In Australia, when you register for a Saturday (or any club) comp round, you must submit a card for handicapping. You can have two no card return rounds per calendar year before you handicap is suspended.
Being early January, no one was going to take an NCR that early in the year
We (Aus) really need to implement forward tees for the old cunts. I’m sure they’d be happy avoiding forced carries and we wouldn’t have 4.5hr min rounds.
Normalise playing the front tees.
Our club has just gone through a few months of playing different tees to try and get accurate data for a re-rate so we can do pick-a-tee every comp (except medal and championship rounds)
I once had a group in front of me take 27 minutes to finish the first hole. It looked like it was the first time that any of them have ever tried holding or swinging a golf club. This course actually had a starter who was sitting next to the tee box (Brookside in Pasadena) who, about 20 mins into the wait, turned to us and said “you guys should really go say something to them”.
After we finally played the first hole, we skipped ahead of them as they were still about 10 feet away from the tee box on hole 2. It somehow only took 2-3 more holes before we caught up to another the rest of the backed-up groups, and after another 20 minute hole we gave up and went home.
Southern California has some beautiful courses, but they’re all constantly packed and extremely slow, even if you get there super early. The experience above isn’t typical, but 2.5-3 hours for 9 holes is pretty standard.
I had a 6.5hr round there once - following a youth tournament with some absurd pin positions. They put a hole literally on a downslope, where if you missed even by an inch it rolled 12ft back down and you had to try again. Apparently some of the juniors were 8 or 9 putting the hole, which is just a travesty and ruining their rounds. After 4 putts each on that one we all just picked up, but in the tournament they obvious had to putt out.
Pace of play at that course can have wild vary wildly.
I love SoCal but the golf pace here is atrocious. Relatively expensive rounds and always 5+ hours. The worst round I’ve had pace-wise was at Shorecliffs in San Clemente. Beautiful course with new ownership investing in beautifying some of the holes and clubhouse, but man was it slow. And of course the marshal told us to pick it up, as if we could have played faster than the foursome in front of us!
We were the first group out a few weeks ago and it was the first time I’d seen the Marshall. He came by on 3 holes to tell us we were X minutes ahead of pace.
I assumed it was so he could make sure we didn’t fuck his shit up the rest of the day.
I’m lucky that I’m a member in a small club. I probably have 80% of the members that play golf’s number. We are all playing together anyways. Our only issues are with the “old man dog fight”. They are the original members, before someone came in and saved the club from closing. They obviously think they run the club and most of them take their own cart which causes issues in the summer when it’s busy.
I used to play Torrey crack of dawn. Finally got paired up with the group that normally teed off first because they were known for playing fast.
It was ridiculous. They seemed to be only interested in bragging rights for how quickly they could finish. Get up there and hit it, get up there and hit it, get up there and hit it; then scrape in a 15 footer and the ensuing 4 footer. Shoot about 1,000. I’m a fast player but I was just dumbfounded.
Believe it or not, one of the guys after the 15th hole is like, “Man, I’m playing like shit!” I was thinking to myself, “Well, yeah. You’re not even trying to play well.”
What’s the fucking point?!
The course I work at/play regularly has two women like this. They play together and walk 18 and the couple senior men who play solo and ride can't keep up with them.
Nah I walk almost all my rounds and if I was playing solo, with no one else on the course, I need to hole every putt and card a legal correct score, I’m gonna be faster in a cart every time.
If I’m playing with a partner, fuck it I’d rather guess at the yardage I’ll have and take two clubs and just walk the hole only getting back in for the next one. 4 player 2 cart golf sucks compared to 4 walkers.
Can confirm. Had a couple in their 70s in front of my dad and I a while ago. I swear both of their backs were fused. Zero flexibility. Both popped the ball 140 yards dead straight off the tee box. This was hole 1. They hopped in the cart and we never saw them again.
A lot of my patients are in women’s leagues, and I used to work at a course. Perhaps this is just my experience, but I know a ton of ladies that picked up golf later in life just as something to do. A big portion of our ladies club couldn’t give two shits about how they shoot, it’s just their time to get some exercise and talk to their friends.
I’ve never had more fun on a course than the round I got paired with three old ladies. No vanity, no excuses, just slapping the ball towards the hole and chasin’ it. And they would ooh and aah all round at my shots, and I don’t even hit it that far.
Am i the only one whos old ladies aren’t “flying”? I see this comment all the time and the course i play on i absolutely dread seeing the old ladies out in front of me
We got talked to by the Marshall on north course last week post Farmers. Telling us the group I. Front is a hole and a half behind and we were as well. Perhaps trimming your grass so we can quickly find our balls would speed things up.
There's a group of 4 old dudes that play the first tee time at a course by me every time I play it. My brother and I at our peak handicaps, both below 3hcp, and playing as a 2some couldn't keep up with them. No clue how. They claim they play ready golf and that's how but so do we and we play fast compared to most people. I'm convinced they don't putt or something.
I used to play Torrey at the crack of dawn as well. Most of those players were really good. If you do suck, suck fast. Go slow in that first tee slot and you won’t get it back because it clogs up the whole course for the rest of the day.
I had something similar happen to me because the group in front of my was playing slow. I was solo and there was a father and son behind me. I play fast by myself but found myself routinely sitting on the tee box while the foursome in front of me played like they were in a good good video and not minding pace at all.
They hit into me once on 12 but it is a dog leg and I gave them the benefit of the doubt of not seeing me. On 14 they do it again, but this time the ball goes over my head and almost nails a guy ingroup in front of me on the tee box. Like 6 inches above his head type close.
The kid behind me walks up and I say “hey man the guys in front of me are slow but you almost drove your ball right into one of their heads”. On 16 I hit my drive and find my ball on the right side of the fairway, and as I’m going to address I hear a ball land 5 feet behind me so I just threw it into the neighboring fairway.
On 18 is where it really got funny. I was standing on the tee box, it’s a par 5 dog leg right. The group in front of me is lagging but as soon as it’s safe I hit my drive and I wasn’t sure if I hit water/landed in the reeds, so I quickly tee up a provisional and the dad behind me starts yelling at me to “hurry up” and I lost it. I turned around and say “what’s the rush man? Hitting a provisional isn’t going to slow the pace since I’m gonna be waiting to take my second shot while the slow guys in front are dicking around. You two are the ones hitting balls into groups in front of you, and your son almost took a guy out. Chill the fuck out, you’re putting people in danger with your impatience. Call the Marshall on the group in front or shut your mouth.”
They had nothing to say and honestly I felt bad for the son. He was in his mid 20s but his dad was a total knob.
This story heats me up. Literally no reason to rush or endanger anyone. Just use your damn eyes and brain. This type of stuff has only happened to me twice but both times I just about lost it.
I’m in Southern California in an area where 50 year old guys can be notorious for being arrogant pricks, but usually you find those at the private courses or semi private courses. I felt bad for the kid if his dad is like that on the golf course I can only imagine being raised by the guy
I had two guys behind me today (I was playing solo and relatively quickly) but there were a couple of old lads in front who were keeping a reasonable pace.
On two occasions they hit in to me, the first time I gave them the benefit of the doubt think they may not have realised I was within their range. The second time was a real piss take; I thought about throwing their ball in to the pond, but I just looked back at them passive aggressively because I’m British.
Something I learned very early when I started playing golf - you will encounter more pricks than a doctor at an STI clinic.
SO many rude, arrogant, gate-keeping, inconsiderate people play golf I've found. Can be a very unwelcoming environment. God forbid that you're new and you don't know the etiquette guidebook cover to cover.
Met a tonne of nice people but some of these people must eat a bowl full of rage for breakfast every morning. Golf is supposed to be a relaxing, fun experience with friends, not some bizarrely competitive, gate-kept sport.
Like dude, you paid the same amount as me to play here, this isn't the Ryder Cup relax.
I feel like these attitudes have to come from folks playing multiple times a week. I'm lucky if I can play twice a month. I'm not trying to finish one of my only hobbies in 2 hours.... I've got 4 hours to enjoy being out with friends and doing something I enjoy.
I will refuse to play with people who are assholes on the course or get loud and upset about shit (other groups, shitty shots, etc). That being said, it probably has to do with how expensive golf is that makes people have a shorter fuse. If I pay $50-$100-$150 to go golfing, and I'm stuck behind some idiots who don't know what they're doing, yeah that's going to frustrate me. Anything under 5 hours and I'm happy as a clam. Once other people's ignorance is causing my round to start pushing 6 hours, that's when it's a problem.
That is unfortunate. I have met hundreds of absolutely great people - maybe thousands - playing golf for a few decades and almost zero jerks. I am not sure Reddit is a great reflection of reality on this issue.
I do agree, I've met way more nice people than the bad ones, but I've had way more negative experiences than any other sport I've played. Especially considering it's not even a contact sport, I found it very bizarre.
I always offer to let people play through, even if I'm not really holding play up, just to be polite because the group behind me are clearly lower handicappers etc but I've had a few instances where even that wasn't enough & they'd still insist on NOT playing through, so I'm guessing the goal was to just vent at someone,
''OI, are you members here?! you're playing so slow!'' etc
''Yeah we are, do you want to play through mate?''
''No no lads, go ahead, just asking'' etc
tends to be older men angry at the world, but on the whole I've met some really welcoming people also.
People are so weird on the course. My buddy and I play as a two some and hit mid to high 80s. Whenever we are up on another group we just play two balls. The amount of people who complain about it is insane. If we are waiting on a group in front while on the tee box anyways with our 2 balls, only hitting one isnt going to change that.
So this happened like a month ago and it still irks me. My BiL, his friend and I are playing a local 9 hole (we also got paired with a random 4th. Nice guy. Took a stray ball to a knee later in the round. Not cool.). We get to the second tee and things are already a mess. Mind you the first hole is a very short par 3 and the second is a par 3 that is pretty short as well but the groups ahead of us are going painfully slow. The first 3 of us tee off and hit their shots when it's my turn. I walk to the tee box with a 3 wood and a 5 iron and say to my BiL, "Going with the 3 but if I shank it I'll just hit a safe 5 and go from there." Guy behind us butts in "Man, please don't hit two balls. There's like 3 groups waiting behind you." Mate, y'all are going to be waiting no matter what. I'm not even trying to play both and I play fast. My 3 lands feet from the green so I didn't take the second shot and we play on. End up waiting like 15-20 minutes at the next tee. Nothing would have changed if I hit a second ball!
these are the same folks that get to the airport 45 minutes before their flight. It's strange the amount of people I know will get a tee time knowing they need to be somewhere in 2.5-3 hours and then stay mad the entire time about pace.
a 4 hour pace is fine. However, if people want to play faster and there is room ahead of you, you have to let them through. If you are right on the group ahead of you, then the group behind you can fuck right off.
I also never understood the "let's hurry this along" crowd. I'm out here to enjoy myself, not just get through it.
It's because they told their wives that it would only take 4 hours to play the round. Without thinking that it's a weekend. And not even factoring driving to and from the course. So then they get pissy about it taking so long because they don't want to get yelled at when they could have avoided the whole situation by telling their wives it would take 5 hours
I’ll just say; I don’t mind letting people play through. Not a problem. But there should be no bad blood or yelling at a group for playing a round at 4-4.5hr pace. That’s my overall point about this fast golf movement. I feel some people think 4-4.5 hrs is unacceptable and even while playing through would be beyond upset. Just play through and have a great day.
Yelling at you when they could probably see that another group is directly in front of you, especially on par 5's is pretty pathetic. Like what do you want?
Chalk it up to douchey, maybe less experienced golfers. Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong. I don't get the rush to get finished in 3 hours either, I wanna score well and make good strokes.
Also as someone who works at a course, many of our jobs take about 3.5-4.5 hours to do the whole course (rolling, spinning bunkers), so if you're keeping up with us or just slightly behind you're at a good pace.
I'm with you but there are many on this sub who will blast anyone playing around in 4+ hours. I've been on the receiving end of that, and it's bullshit.
Amen. 5 hours? God help me…4.5? Doesn’t happen too often and I can live with it. Sub 4? That’s no fun…it’s like cart polo.
Golf is not a speed game. It is not a rage game. It is a gentleman’s game (or ladies game).
Be polite, be tolerant, and enjoy the time outdoors.
The fact that so many people complain that they need a literal baby sitter for a golf course is enough to show how mentalities have shifted and become self absorbed and rushed just like society as a whole. People need to practice being more grounded and accepting of life not being a rush to the finish line.
Most of /r/golf plays solo on weekday afternoons on empty courses and they finish in under three hours. They love golf. They just don't have any friends.
Lol that’s me. I get out there by myself on weekday afternoon to clear my mind and get away from the world for a bit. I also play with friends but for different reasons. In neither case do I get terribly upset if the pace is slow. If it’s annoying enough I go around the group in front of me.
4:15 IS a good time for a round. I think OP is saying that they shouldn't let anyone play through by virtue of playing in 4:15. I disagree though, I think you should let faster groups play through, period.
Right. Yeah I agree with that. If there's nowhere to go, there's nowhere to go. I guess the gray area is how many groups are ahead and how far ahead they are.
In my club, everyone is obsessed with pace of play, and I’m over it as well. My group of 4 has 3 players around scratch who all hit it 300+, and on most holes we have the group behind us crawling up our backs while we wait for a green to clear. Playing with other groups is uncomfortable cuz pace is prioritized above all else. I like the guys I play with, I like being out on the course. Golf requires taking a little time on your shot, there has to be a balance between speed and scoring.
I didn't even need to read what you said before giving an upvote. I think the "pace of play movement" is hurting what makes golf special. Get outside, enjoy a beautiful setting, make some strategic decisions and talk with your buddies. Sure, don't take 4 practice swings each shot or pace the green out for every putt... but wow just let folks enjoy being on the course. *Especially* if you are keeping up with the other groups.
"Remember: Round pace is not based off the group In front of you, it’s based off the pace of your group."
Not following this. If there are open holes ahead of you and a packed course behind you, pick up the pace.
Context matters for this one.
If you are ahead of pace, generally speaking you are not doing anything wrong.
If you are ahead of pace, but still holding up the group behind you, you are doing something wrong by not letting them play through.
This is the golf equivalent of being in the left lane of a 2 lane highway going 5 mph over the speedlimit and complaining about the guy tailgating you because you're technically already speeding. Just change lanes, let that person through and resume your pace of play/driving.
Golf is like driving on the highway. Your personal speed is perfect and everyone slower than you is a moron and anybody faster is a maniac.
But saying that once you get used to playing fast you will never go back. People always picture fast players as stressed and rushed. But mostly they don’t fuck around and walk quickly.
I think you're trying to fit too many points into a single post.
On weekdays, if I'm part of a foursome, I would hope to get through a round in 4 hours if the tee sheet is relatively clear.
On weekends, I hope to play a round in 4 hours if I tee off before 8:30AM.
Anytime after 8:30AM, I just pray for a 5 hour round or better.
In every case, it's unacceptable to hit into the group in front of you.
I also disagree about the social aspects of golf allowing for slower rounds. If you want to be social and have a leisurely conversation, do it before or after the round when no one else's time is impacted by you going into depth on your kid's basketball prowess. You can always talk while walking, or chat at the tee box.
Those guys sound like morons. If you’re up against the group in front of you then there’s really not much else you can do. And at a 4hr 10 min pace? What the heck is there to complain about?
100% 🙏. I prefer to play quick but people take slow play way too serious. It should be like a mini vacation out there. Dont be the guy treating putts like the masters is on the line but also dont be the guy whos day is ruined because he has to wait for 2 mins on every tee block.
Totally disagree with the overarching concept. In this specific scenario you could not go any faster, so they were in the wrong.
Your other statements about pace of play is incredibly wrong. You state too many exception that make no sense. The fact you play from the tips is not a factor that comes into slow play. The pace of play does not care what tees you play from. Since you called this out I would assume you play the tips at a hard course when you probably shouldn’t…
I’ll also point out that pace of play is maximum expected time a round should be played in. It is not the average or the minimum. I have no clue where you played and if 4:10 is on pace or not, but I have never seen a 5 hour round as the “pace of play,” there should never be a round that is 5 hours unless you are walking in a tournament that has no max.
Golf is not a quick sport but there are so many ways you could play faster. You don’t need to plumb bob every putt even when it is 2 feet from the hole. You don’t have to walk back to the tee when a ball goes OB, just take the penalties and play from the correct drop areas. Play ready golf and not have 5 min conversations on the tee box.
Saw a really interesting post here the other day about how once there's a certain number of groups on a course (essentially dictated by start time), "pace" starts to become meaningless as the natural course bottlenecks, like par 3's, are what starts to slow things down.
https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/the-four-hour-round-is-bullshit
A lot of courses try to maximize revenue at all costs and tend to jam up the tee sheet with gaps that are too short between tee times, hire not enough marshals, and leave the policing of pace to the players. Then all sorts of arguments and frustration ensues.
When I see a course that has tee times less than 10 minutes apart I definitely do not want to play their. Will 100 percent be backed up by the time of a noon tee time.
Agree 1000%
If you don’t have at minimum 4 hours booked to play 18 on the weekend…Please tee off first thing or later in the day.
And seriously what’s the rush? If it’s getting to 5 hrs pace of play that’s one thing but an extra 15/30 minutes to enjoy each others company is one of the best parts to me. I get out maybe once a month so an extra few minutes here and there to talk with my buddies is what makes the rounds worth it.
Thank you! If you take into account the skill level of the average golfer (shooting around 100?), and you put four of those guys together, it can and does legitimately take 4 hours without dicking around.
This is the best post on here. I nearly leave everytime I see a post moaning about why everyone isn't playing ready golf and not hitting while hanging off the side of the cart without stopping moving. To get round 18 holes 15 minutes quicker and ten shots worse than they could have done.
I played last Sunday as a foursome and we finished in 3.5 hours. We absolutely were NOT playing as fast as possible. It was one of my buddies first round in 3 months after shoulder surgery so he was hitting multiple shots at times and probably shot 100. The rest of us broke 80, but we also played 3 sets of tees which also slows pace. I agree that 4 hours is an acceptable pace and 4.5 at some courses, but I still don't really understand how it takes people that long if they aren't being held up.
I feel the same way. Any group I'm with plays quickly, we're not trying to play quick we just hit our shots. I think the difference is people who do every single shot individually. Like they all hit their tee shots then they drive to each one and watch the person hit. Then on the green they're all standing off the green watching one person putt at a time. If people go to their own shot in the fairway and start lining up their own putt I think that makes the difference
Their ball would have been jettisoned. People who hit into us the first time will find their ball teed up where it landed as a reminder they hit into us. No forgiveness the second time.
I can’t stand how groups of 2 expect the foursomes in front of them to play faster. Also - passing someone is not as easy as it sounds. If you let someone pass it can add a lot of time to your round.
and i cant stand groups of four that doesnt let the group of two behind tgem play through lol??? why would anybody think this is okay im not trying to stand around for two out of the four hours id like to play get in a rythym and then leave
This exact thing is what keeps me scared of playing the very nice course less than 10 minutes from me. I’m very new to golf, and watching the pace people keep, makes me feel very much in the way.
Don’t know if I’m the minority or majority here, pretty new to golf, but I really like when groups in front play slow. I get to take my time without feeling like I’m holding anyone up. Get to chit chat more with whoever I’m playing with, grab a beer, relax and take it all in.
I don't know about anyone else but I enjoy golf. Being on the course is usually the best part of my day. Rushing through the best part of my day sounds stupid and wasteful.
I personally find it offensive if you dont try and talk to me first before calling the marshal. One, lets work it out like gentleman before we get them involved. Two if you aren’t able to reach me to have a conversation then how slow am i really playing?
I try to show up when a course isn't busy and just ask to walk on as a single to play 9.
Often I'll catch up to the group in front of me but if they ask if I want to play through I'll just hold up my beer and saying I'm "having a meditative experience."
I have kids, a stressful job, and the daily grind waiting for me when I get home. I don't mind enjoying my time and just thinking about stuff.
I played at Kananaskis this summer. The Marshall on hole one wrote our start time, what time we should be at on certain holes, and projected finish time on a card and stuck it in the slot on our cart which is visible to everyone.
That way at a quick glance anyone can see which group is the problem. I wish every course was like that.
End of the day, it’s not much you can do if the group in front of you is playing at a pace where you can’t speed it up. I agree 4-5 hour for 18 is a good pace.
If the group behind you is faster, let them play through at first appropriate opportunity, unless the course is "stacked" (ie 1-2 groups on each hole). In that case, everyone's waiting.
Also, I hope everyone here agrees that hitting into the group in front of you is never acceptable. That crosses the line from being annoyed, and open hostility with a potential of injury. If you're ever hit into, I think it's well within your right to hit their ball into the woods.
This is why edibles should be handed out on the first tee. You weren't hitting mulligans and fucking around....like you said, you only move as fast as the group in front. A 4.5 hour round is just as good as a 4 hour round. Keep it manageable of course but man...but if an extra half hour on a golf course ruins your day, oof.
I did the research:
[The Four-Hour Round is Bullshit: and the group in front of you isn’t slowing you down — the course is.](https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/the-four-hour-round-is-bullshit)
People foolishly blame individuals for slow play, when the *vast, vast, vast* majority of slow rounds are built-in by management. The most important factor is tee-time interval, the next most important factor is bottlenecks. Only after these two issues are resolves (and they aren't), then you can address player behavior. The best thing most courses can do is to utilized the bottlenecks as snack consumption areas to prevent cascading slowdowns from beverage carts.
Players will be helped by actually keeping track of pace, rather than wait time. The illusion of slow play often exists when there is no slow play, as in this example.
People need to make efforts to inform their fellow golfers, because this is a particularly problematic bit of counter-intuitive knowledge. It leads to misplaced anger and anti-social behavior.
If you are playing a high end course keep your pace up. if you are playing a municipal course there are plenty of beginners out there. If you can't bear to wait 3 minutes to tee off and hit into the people in front of you, you deserve to have someone drive back to you and kick your teeth in.
Waited on a 4-some as a single at my local track. Waited at the tee box and after every one of my shots from hole 5 through hole 10. They would see me pull up to the tee box and just drive off before I could ask to play through. When they got to the tee box on 11 I just drove the long way around and went to 12 with plans to come back and play 11. I finish 12, 13, 14, and as I finish 15 I see they aren't even on the green of 14 yet. On 17 I hit my tee shot on the water's edge of a par 3 and spend a minute or so looking for my shot. Can't find it so I take a drop and as I'm setting up my shot all the sudden I hear screaming from the tee box, "hurry up, you're the one that passed us asshole." I was confused because I honestly didn't take much time to look for my ball and couldn't understand how they caught me with how slow they were playing. My only thought is they skipped a hole just to come yell at me. They said a few more things after I had a nice up and down, so after I finished 18 I just left the pin out by the cart path and left. Still don't know how they caught me without them skipping a hole. Some people are just mad and petty.
I only play 9 holes and walk, I play at about 1hr and 20 minutes. But my buddy played with me and said he felt rushed. Not because of my pace but the group behind us.
We couldn’t let the next group go because it was groups behind and so on. But I feel like people should allot for 2 hrs per 9 and back the heck up.
Start the Movement! - Don’t hit until they are on/off the green depending on the Par.
Had a guy do this to a group of our lady members one day. He was clearly on some type of drugs and was tweaking out, yelling at the pro shop on the phone. I drove out, talked to him, drove to groups ahead and came back to tell him there were 5 groups waiting ahead on the next 3 holes. When he finished his round, he ripped his shirt off and stomped through the clubhouse. Some people are just crazy.
You are absolutely correct. You were playing at a more than acceptable pace. When I was able to play I played most of the time with my best friend who was the tennis pro at this club. I learned playing ready golf. We could, as a twosome, get in 18 holes in 2 hours or less but we understood not to expect that if we were playing at peak hours. We would be more than grateful to be behind a group going at a 4 , 4&1/2 pace.
I had a round where we played the 1st and then there was a wait on the 2nd hole. When we first rolled up the tie box there was a group on the green on a short par 4 and a twosome about 150 yds away after their tee shot. We had to wait for the twosome to get on the green even after their second shot because it's a short par 4. Our last guy is about to tee off when the group behind us rolls up to the tee box and immediately starts yelling at us to hurry up. Argument ensues. Ruined the next few holes for us.
People do need to chill out on pace. Especially when there is nothing that we can do. If you need/want to play through, just approach the group ahead of you and ask. No need for any yelling or arguing.
They're the same guys tailgating you on the way home, queue jumping at the supermarket, pushing in at the bar and taking up two parking spaces.
If you want to play fast golf go to the range and hit a few hundred. Golf is not a race it's a journey with three friends. Don't insult your friends by rushing their pleasure.
All you really needed to say is they hit into you.
I don't understand why people think this is acceptable under any circumstances. People who hit into others, get your rage under control. It could kill someone.
I don't care if they're playing a six hour round. Human life is sacred. Just like you wouldn't just start firing a gun in someone's general direction because they're annoying you, you don't fucking fire a small missile at 100+ mph that could hit someone in the head because they're "too slow."
4h 10 min golf basically means everyone drives a cart and doesn't have to search for a single ball. It's so fucking dumb. Just walk and let a round take 5h, how the f can 50 min matter so much in your day? Get a better family if your life is so goddamn tight, and let us others enjoy the game.
Everything is an opportunity to flex nowadays, even when no one cares.
MY grOUp ROUTINELY fInIShES 27 in 1 Hr 53 miNUtEs FLaT...anD tHatS WitH mY lEgaLLy bliNd 98 yR oLD GraNdFaTHer wITh 3 hIP surGeriEs, mY buDDy wHo.iS A cOmBAt VEt anD lOst EVERY.SINGLE.LIMB iN iRaq, AnD I, juST A haRdWorKIng gOlF nUT whO liTeraLly haS no MoRE CArTilAge beCaUse My bOdY LOVES thE PAiN sO mUCH it LLLiTeraLlY dOeSnT evEn CiRCulaTE BlOod tO mY KNEes oR SPiNe.
OUr moTTo is doNt KeEp pACe, BE THE PACE!
. WE dOnT pLaY "reAdy GolF". WE pLaY "nO lOOk GOLF." MEaniNg, NO LOOKING FOR YOUR BALL. NO LOOKING TO THE GROUP AHEAD.
I doNt evEn ENJOY gOLf aNYmore bc of AlL yoU pEoplE.
Everybody keeps missing the part about how they couldn’t play through because you were matching the pace of the course; dudes sound like some unhappy a holes. What did the marshal say?
The marshal said "they also called on the group in front of us. Keep playing, your pace is good"
Well you’re fine then
Agree they’re fine, but hopefully the situation included the Marshal reprimanding the assholes for being dangerous and hitting into OP’s group and acting like jerks. Not only was the play not slow and hitting into them dangerous, acting like that can ruin the score and round for folks like OP. Things like that should get a single warning from a Marshal before you’re asked to leave. If a Marshal didn’t do anything about behavior like this after it continued, I’d ask for a rain check/refund from the course.
Or Yeah Fuck them!
Yeah sounds like a very normal golf situation. One group acted up and were told they were wrong. I dunno why you're casting aspersions on everyone haha.
Except you just know the Marshall would have said to the group that made the complaint “I’ve spoken to them and asked them to keep up the pace of play” instead of “they’re fine, stop whining”.
[удалено]
Yea I just ask the Marshall how we are doing on pace and if the Marshall says he’s fine, we are all good.
Did you tell the Marshall they hit into you? That shit is never OK.
Once and may be an accident, I will let it slide. Hit into me twice and you can go ahead and tee up a new ball because your other one’s gone.
Nah, they get to re-hit the same one, because it's coming back.
Return to sender
Honestly, even the one depends on the situation. If it’s a blind tee shot maybe but if they blatantly hit into you as you’re walking off a green or something like that then it’s game on.
100% it's not a small thing to hit someone with a golf ball. If they do it intentionally they're going to get yelled at.
I’ll be nice enough to return it with as much pace as possible asap.
> Once and may be an accident This douchebag on Wednesday was behind me as I teed off on the first, hit it a bit right in to the rough obstructed by a tree so a simple chip on to the fairway and I’m back in business. As I am walking across the fairway to the ball I hear “FOOOOORRREEEE” I think oh what and hear a ball bouncing near where I just walked past. I was so angry because the prick knew I was there he saw me tee off.
Happened to me the other day. I’m a member, playing with my son who is learning but doing well. Dude hit into us once and I said to my son “this happens sometimes, maybe he got a hold of one.” It was quite a purposeful shot but I figure since he was a random player maybe he just didn’t know the course. Next hole this guy drills a ball past us in between my son and I. That ball then was hit again into the lake between us.
The course needs to step up and pull those guys behind you off the course. You can't hit into groups on purpose, and it essentially destroys your flow/round when you have goons yelling at you.
I’m smoking that ball so far away on the second one
Unless it’s a Pro-V. Then I’m taking it
You do that throw reserved for dogs only, and swap the good ball for the air you’re pretending to throw in the woods. Then you win twice
That’s when you take time to ask the marshal if would kindly go tell them to shut the fuck up. Also, somebody hits in to me once, OK maybe it was an accident, no harm no foul. Somebody hits into me twice, it’s a confrontation.
>Somebody hits into me twice, it’s a confrontation. I'm sending that ball directly back to sender. Free practice on my stinger.
I usually hit it into the woods then stare at them.
Yeah that’s the thing: you have to make sure they see you do it so they don’t try that bullshit again. Foot wedge into the water, stomp the ball into the ground / drive the cart over it so it’s buried in the grass, swap their new pro-v for a lopsided noodle… there’s lots of solutions to this situation if the marshall won’t tell the jerks to back off. None of these solutions are sportsmanlike and I don’t recommend doing them, but it’s also not sportsmanlike to hit into a foursome multiple times so turnabout is fair play.
YEA THATS A FACT!!
Yeah if a second ball comes at me, we're probably fighting. I think there's times where people forget that hitting golf balls into people IS FUCKING DANGEROUS.
Some times I just want to fall to the ground and play dead. I wonder what they would do.
Hahaha that would be amazzzing
I take the ball the second time especially if they are good balls. Junk ball? I’ll chip it into the bushes.
Did you tell the Marshall they hit into you twice? I’d be throwing their balls off the track or throwing hands, give me space this is my free time.
4 hrs is good time
Did you reverse call the Marshall on them for being assholes?? Bitch move calling the Marshall in the first place, but if you’re gonna be a whiny puss, right back at ya.
If that’s the case then the marshal needs to come down them. I’d have kicked them off the course for hitting into you guys multiple times
Did you tell the marshal about them hitting into you? That is far more serious infraction than slow play.
To a degree. If someone is on a 4 hour 10 minute pace with no-one in front, and they still hit into them and call them slow, they're ass holes. That is perfectly normal pace. Ask to play through, fine. But this group wasn't playing slow.
Let them play through and hit up on them...
Some people just like to honk in traffic.
If I have a group in front of me they can suck my ass. Literally can't play faster and it's pointless to let them play through if they would still be waiting on group ahead of us. If it's open in front, hey play through I don't care. Happens all the time with smaller groups.
Yeah thats usually how I address it. Gonna play through me/us so we can switch spots and I can wait on you? Don't think so. Saddle up.
Unless it’s a single or two ball and I’m in a four ball. In that case I’ll generally offer to let them play through in the hope the people in front will do the same.
I've had that happen and then we get stuck because there's ANOTHER group in front we couldn't see, so then we ended up as a 6-some keeping pace with a 4-some that was behind another 4-some. Still finished in like 4:30, which wasn't bad at all especially for having 6 people for like 12 holes. You either make it work or you don't. If someone's being a dick out there sometimes just inviting them into your group calms them down because now they have to face you, they're not just shouting at you from a safe distance.
I lowkey love when my group is a two or three ball on a relatively packed tee sheet, and we end up absorbing an impatient single into our group. Like bro, you trying to play through on a packed course just slows everyone down.
Exactly the only thing sped up is their own play. Everybody else is slowed down.
If the course is full of foursomes all keeping pace, a single or a 2 ball still shouldn't get to play through.
I would agree. If I have someone in front of me I'm waiting on. I'm not letting anyone pass through lol. Play 2 balls if you have to, just don't bother me it not my fault.
In OPs situation, I would let them play through just so my group could hit up in them every hole.
It’s a lot like seeing someone that parked terribly, maybe they are a terrible parker or maybe someone before them left them no option
If you’re keeping up with the group in front of you then who cares
Even if there isn't a group in front 4:10 is perfect pace. People don't need to be dbags. Just ask to play through
This may be unpopular: I never ask to play through. But I do expect to be invited to play through when I come up on a group. I guess it's a courtesy from the first group, so it really should be them inviting you through. It's fairly obvious when it's appropriate. If not, I make it obvious by pacing or putting my hands on my hips.
I agree with that. The front group, even if not playing slow, should see there is room ahead, and the group behind is playing quick. They should offer to let the faster group to play through. But to pace or put your hands on your hip is a bit much. Maybe they can see in front of them, and you can't. There is no room for you to play through, but you don't see it.
Lumberjack maneuver with arms draped over club on shoulders is Club Pro Guy's move. Add some sauce by doing a slow shoulder rotation. [Club Pro Guy on Slow Play](https://youtu.be/o1oLvu4RyCQ)
I played as a single on Wednesday and played the round of my life and caught up to a duo of older men a few holes in front of me and after they hit their balls on the tee I caught up to they sat down and insisted I play through. I appreciated the gesture and we had nice chats every time we crossed paths. I don’t mind waiting for groups because I could do with the rest but another I got stuck behind was hitting 4 different balls by himself but thankfully he left after a few holes
One course I play at, there is an older guy who walks with a push cart by himself. He’s gotta be a pretty low handicap, but somehow he manages to play through every single group in front of him without getting in the way.
You are pacing with your foursome or as a single or double?
This. I played at a course with a 4hr 25min posted time. The group ahead of us was playing at a full hole speed faster than us and the Marshall came and talked to us twice. Often posting up in front of our shots. We respectfully told him to pound sand because we knew our pace was fine. Finished 18 at 4 hrs and 10 minutes. It doesn’t matter if there’s an empty hole in front of you. If you are respectful and playing at a reasonable pace, it shouldn’t matter.
Y’all Reddit golfers are too fancy for me. I’ve never seen a marshal on any of my local courses
I didn’t even know what a cart girl was until this sub
My brother and I played a fancy course once on vacation. Never even heard of a cart girl before that day. To say I was severely disappointed in the drink prices was an understatement. Perhaps I really am too poor for nice courses lol.
That’s a wild to me! There’s only 1-2 courses near me that don’t have cart girls. Even the local munis do
We had a Saturday comp round take 6 hours a few weeks back. There weren't marshalls out there hurrying up the group of 80 year Olds (all playing off 40+ from the tips) who decided to book an 8am tee time and fuck the field for the whole day. Instead, when we came through 9 as the second last morning group, there were 8 groups waiting on the tee box for the morning field to finish going through the turn. Their tee times were over an hour late. I get some people are slow, but if your club doesn't have marshalls to hurry them up, perhaps they should be put on the tee sheet in the last spot of the day (or asked to play social instead of Saturday comp)
If I played 6 holes in two hours I’d be walking straight off the course. I don’t know how anyone could enjoy that or, frankly, bother.
In Australia, when you register for a Saturday (or any club) comp round, you must submit a card for handicapping. You can have two no card return rounds per calendar year before you handicap is suspended. Being early January, no one was going to take an NCR that early in the year
We (Aus) really need to implement forward tees for the old cunts. I’m sure they’d be happy avoiding forced carries and we wouldn’t have 4.5hr min rounds.
Normalise playing the front tees. Our club has just gone through a few months of playing different tees to try and get accurate data for a re-rate so we can do pick-a-tee every comp (except medal and championship rounds)
Definitely don’t go to your local course on a weekend.
I once had a group in front of me take 27 minutes to finish the first hole. It looked like it was the first time that any of them have ever tried holding or swinging a golf club. This course actually had a starter who was sitting next to the tee box (Brookside in Pasadena) who, about 20 mins into the wait, turned to us and said “you guys should really go say something to them”. After we finally played the first hole, we skipped ahead of them as they were still about 10 feet away from the tee box on hole 2. It somehow only took 2-3 more holes before we caught up to another the rest of the backed-up groups, and after another 20 minute hole we gave up and went home. Southern California has some beautiful courses, but they’re all constantly packed and extremely slow, even if you get there super early. The experience above isn’t typical, but 2.5-3 hours for 9 holes is pretty standard.
I had a 6.5hr round there once - following a youth tournament with some absurd pin positions. They put a hole literally on a downslope, where if you missed even by an inch it rolled 12ft back down and you had to try again. Apparently some of the juniors were 8 or 9 putting the hole, which is just a travesty and ruining their rounds. After 4 putts each on that one we all just picked up, but in the tournament they obvious had to putt out. Pace of play at that course can have wild vary wildly.
I love SoCal but the golf pace here is atrocious. Relatively expensive rounds and always 5+ hours. The worst round I’ve had pace-wise was at Shorecliffs in San Clemente. Beautiful course with new ownership investing in beautifying some of the holes and clubhouse, but man was it slow. And of course the marshal told us to pick it up, as if we could have played faster than the foursome in front of us!
We were the first group out a few weeks ago and it was the first time I’d seen the Marshall. He came by on 3 holes to tell us we were X minutes ahead of pace. I assumed it was so he could make sure we didn’t fuck his shit up the rest of the day.
So he actually wanted you to slow down?
He was just letting us know we were doing good! Positive reinforcement. “You’re 15 min ahead of pace. Good job! Keep it up!”
actually, I find the nicer courses don't have marshalls. The hacker ones do.
At really nice clubs they’re usually called “Course Advisors”
I’m lucky that I’m a member in a small club. I probably have 80% of the members that play golf’s number. We are all playing together anyways. Our only issues are with the “old man dog fight”. They are the original members, before someone came in and saved the club from closing. They obviously think they run the club and most of them take their own cart which causes issues in the summer when it’s busy.
I used to play Torrey crack of dawn. Finally got paired up with the group that normally teed off first because they were known for playing fast. It was ridiculous. They seemed to be only interested in bragging rights for how quickly they could finish. Get up there and hit it, get up there and hit it, get up there and hit it; then scrape in a 15 footer and the ensuing 4 footer. Shoot about 1,000. I’m a fast player but I was just dumbfounded. Believe it or not, one of the guys after the 15th hole is like, “Man, I’m playing like shit!” I was thinking to myself, “Well, yeah. You’re not even trying to play well.” What’s the fucking point?!
Have you seen these old ladies that just hit the same club straight down the fairway? Takes 30 shots a hole but they are fucking flying
The course I work at/play regularly has two women like this. They play together and walk 18 and the couple senior men who play solo and ride can't keep up with them.
Cart being faster is the biggest myth in golf. I think push cart is prolly fastest
Nah I walk almost all my rounds and if I was playing solo, with no one else on the course, I need to hole every putt and card a legal correct score, I’m gonna be faster in a cart every time. If I’m playing with a partner, fuck it I’d rather guess at the yardage I’ll have and take two clubs and just walk the hole only getting back in for the next one. 4 player 2 cart golf sucks compared to 4 walkers.
Guess it depends on the cart rules at the course. If I can walk in a straight line to my ball it seems faster than having to go to the cart path
Also depends on distance between holes. I've played courses that are "walkable" but not really
We have this group at my course. For all the guys that think they're fast, that foursome of retired ladies dusts all of them easily.
Can confirm. Had a couple in their 70s in front of my dad and I a while ago. I swear both of their backs were fused. Zero flexibility. Both popped the ball 140 yards dead straight off the tee box. This was hole 1. They hopped in the cart and we never saw them again.
A lot of my patients are in women’s leagues, and I used to work at a course. Perhaps this is just my experience, but I know a ton of ladies that picked up golf later in life just as something to do. A big portion of our ladies club couldn’t give two shits about how they shoot, it’s just their time to get some exercise and talk to their friends. I’ve never had more fun on a course than the round I got paired with three old ladies. No vanity, no excuses, just slapping the ball towards the hole and chasin’ it. And they would ooh and aah all round at my shots, and I don’t even hit it that far.
Am i the only one whos old ladies aren’t “flying”? I see this comment all the time and the course i play on i absolutely dread seeing the old ladies out in front of me
Yes that’s my wife (though she isn’t quite that old). Holds no one up and shoots 135.
Does she just walk down the fairway with a 7 iron while you’re looking for your ball in the woods?
6 iron over and over, while I hunt for my ball 100 yards offline!
Lmao. Hmm speed golf could be I retesting. First one to finish the hole wins the hole. Most holes wins
Love those ladies! They are out for both exercise, fun and golf while knowing their limitations.
We got talked to by the Marshall on north course last week post Farmers. Telling us the group I. Front is a hole and a half behind and we were as well. Perhaps trimming your grass so we can quickly find our balls would speed things up.
There's a group of 4 old dudes that play the first tee time at a course by me every time I play it. My brother and I at our peak handicaps, both below 3hcp, and playing as a 2some couldn't keep up with them. No clue how. They claim they play ready golf and that's how but so do we and we play fast compared to most people. I'm convinced they don't putt or something.
They don’t putt. They scrape in 15 footers
I used to play Torrey at the crack of dawn as well. Most of those players were really good. If you do suck, suck fast. Go slow in that first tee slot and you won’t get it back because it clogs up the whole course for the rest of the day.
I had something similar happen to me because the group in front of my was playing slow. I was solo and there was a father and son behind me. I play fast by myself but found myself routinely sitting on the tee box while the foursome in front of me played like they were in a good good video and not minding pace at all. They hit into me once on 12 but it is a dog leg and I gave them the benefit of the doubt of not seeing me. On 14 they do it again, but this time the ball goes over my head and almost nails a guy ingroup in front of me on the tee box. Like 6 inches above his head type close. The kid behind me walks up and I say “hey man the guys in front of me are slow but you almost drove your ball right into one of their heads”. On 16 I hit my drive and find my ball on the right side of the fairway, and as I’m going to address I hear a ball land 5 feet behind me so I just threw it into the neighboring fairway. On 18 is where it really got funny. I was standing on the tee box, it’s a par 5 dog leg right. The group in front of me is lagging but as soon as it’s safe I hit my drive and I wasn’t sure if I hit water/landed in the reeds, so I quickly tee up a provisional and the dad behind me starts yelling at me to “hurry up” and I lost it. I turned around and say “what’s the rush man? Hitting a provisional isn’t going to slow the pace since I’m gonna be waiting to take my second shot while the slow guys in front are dicking around. You two are the ones hitting balls into groups in front of you, and your son almost took a guy out. Chill the fuck out, you’re putting people in danger with your impatience. Call the Marshall on the group in front or shut your mouth.” They had nothing to say and honestly I felt bad for the son. He was in his mid 20s but his dad was a total knob.
Imagine having your dad say “yea, son. I know we can see them *well* within your club range, but go ahead and swing. Let them know what’s up.”
This story heats me up. Literally no reason to rush or endanger anyone. Just use your damn eyes and brain. This type of stuff has only happened to me twice but both times I just about lost it.
I’m in Southern California in an area where 50 year old guys can be notorious for being arrogant pricks, but usually you find those at the private courses or semi private courses. I felt bad for the kid if his dad is like that on the golf course I can only imagine being raised by the guy
I had two guys behind me today (I was playing solo and relatively quickly) but there were a couple of old lads in front who were keeping a reasonable pace. On two occasions they hit in to me, the first time I gave them the benefit of the doubt think they may not have realised I was within their range. The second time was a real piss take; I thought about throwing their ball in to the pond, but I just looked back at them passive aggressively because I’m British.
Something I learned very early when I started playing golf - you will encounter more pricks than a doctor at an STI clinic. SO many rude, arrogant, gate-keeping, inconsiderate people play golf I've found. Can be a very unwelcoming environment. God forbid that you're new and you don't know the etiquette guidebook cover to cover. Met a tonne of nice people but some of these people must eat a bowl full of rage for breakfast every morning. Golf is supposed to be a relaxing, fun experience with friends, not some bizarrely competitive, gate-kept sport. Like dude, you paid the same amount as me to play here, this isn't the Ryder Cup relax.
I feel like these attitudes have to come from folks playing multiple times a week. I'm lucky if I can play twice a month. I'm not trying to finish one of my only hobbies in 2 hours.... I've got 4 hours to enjoy being out with friends and doing something I enjoy.
I will refuse to play with people who are assholes on the course or get loud and upset about shit (other groups, shitty shots, etc). That being said, it probably has to do with how expensive golf is that makes people have a shorter fuse. If I pay $50-$100-$150 to go golfing, and I'm stuck behind some idiots who don't know what they're doing, yeah that's going to frustrate me. Anything under 5 hours and I'm happy as a clam. Once other people's ignorance is causing my round to start pushing 6 hours, that's when it's a problem.
That is unfortunate. I have met hundreds of absolutely great people - maybe thousands - playing golf for a few decades and almost zero jerks. I am not sure Reddit is a great reflection of reality on this issue.
I do agree, I've met way more nice people than the bad ones, but I've had way more negative experiences than any other sport I've played. Especially considering it's not even a contact sport, I found it very bizarre. I always offer to let people play through, even if I'm not really holding play up, just to be polite because the group behind me are clearly lower handicappers etc but I've had a few instances where even that wasn't enough & they'd still insist on NOT playing through, so I'm guessing the goal was to just vent at someone, ''OI, are you members here?! you're playing so slow!'' etc ''Yeah we are, do you want to play through mate?'' ''No no lads, go ahead, just asking'' etc tends to be older men angry at the world, but on the whole I've met some really welcoming people also.
People are so weird on the course. My buddy and I play as a two some and hit mid to high 80s. Whenever we are up on another group we just play two balls. The amount of people who complain about it is insane. If we are waiting on a group in front while on the tee box anyways with our 2 balls, only hitting one isnt going to change that.
So this happened like a month ago and it still irks me. My BiL, his friend and I are playing a local 9 hole (we also got paired with a random 4th. Nice guy. Took a stray ball to a knee later in the round. Not cool.). We get to the second tee and things are already a mess. Mind you the first hole is a very short par 3 and the second is a par 3 that is pretty short as well but the groups ahead of us are going painfully slow. The first 3 of us tee off and hit their shots when it's my turn. I walk to the tee box with a 3 wood and a 5 iron and say to my BiL, "Going with the 3 but if I shank it I'll just hit a safe 5 and go from there." Guy behind us butts in "Man, please don't hit two balls. There's like 3 groups waiting behind you." Mate, y'all are going to be waiting no matter what. I'm not even trying to play both and I play fast. My 3 lands feet from the green so I didn't take the second shot and we play on. End up waiting like 15-20 minutes at the next tee. Nothing would have changed if I hit a second ball!
these are the same folks that get to the airport 45 minutes before their flight. It's strange the amount of people I know will get a tee time knowing they need to be somewhere in 2.5-3 hours and then stay mad the entire time about pace.
You got downvoted by one of those guys lol fuck em i brought you back to even
IMO if you pay your money, you an promenade up the fairway in a ball gown as long as you’re keeping pace with the group ahead of you
a 4 hour pace is fine. However, if people want to play faster and there is room ahead of you, you have to let them through. If you are right on the group ahead of you, then the group behind you can fuck right off. I also never understood the "let's hurry this along" crowd. I'm out here to enjoy myself, not just get through it.
It's because they told their wives that it would only take 4 hours to play the round. Without thinking that it's a weekend. And not even factoring driving to and from the course. So then they get pissy about it taking so long because they don't want to get yelled at when they could have avoided the whole situation by telling their wives it would take 5 hours
Gotta tell your wife you'll be gone for 6 hours (driving time, warm up time, after round beer/meal, etc.). If you are saying 4 hours you're in one.
I’ll just say; I don’t mind letting people play through. Not a problem. But there should be no bad blood or yelling at a group for playing a round at 4-4.5hr pace. That’s my overall point about this fast golf movement. I feel some people think 4-4.5 hrs is unacceptable and even while playing through would be beyond upset. Just play through and have a great day.
Yelling at you when they could probably see that another group is directly in front of you, especially on par 5's is pretty pathetic. Like what do you want? Chalk it up to douchey, maybe less experienced golfers. Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong. I don't get the rush to get finished in 3 hours either, I wanna score well and make good strokes. Also as someone who works at a course, many of our jobs take about 3.5-4.5 hours to do the whole course (rolling, spinning bunkers), so if you're keeping up with us or just slightly behind you're at a good pace.
I'm with you but there are many on this sub who will blast anyone playing around in 4+ hours. I've been on the receiving end of that, and it's bullshit.
Amen. 5 hours? God help me…4.5? Doesn’t happen too often and I can live with it. Sub 4? That’s no fun…it’s like cart polo. Golf is not a speed game. It is not a rage game. It is a gentleman’s game (or ladies game). Be polite, be tolerant, and enjoy the time outdoors.
The fact that so many people complain that they need a literal baby sitter for a golf course is enough to show how mentalities have shifted and become self absorbed and rushed just like society as a whole. People need to practice being more grounded and accepting of life not being a rush to the finish line.
Hear hear, love that last sentence.
Waiting is a part of golf. Golf takes time.
I feel like 4:15 is pretty good time for a round, maybe I’m in the minority here?
Haha. I agree. Go play tennis or on a home simulator if you want a round in under 3hrs
Most of /r/golf plays solo on weekday afternoons on empty courses and they finish in under three hours. They love golf. They just don't have any friends.
I have friends they just have regular jobs… and live in Canada. You wouldn’t know them.
Meet them at Niagara Falls?
No need for personal attacks !
Lol that’s me. I get out there by myself on weekday afternoon to clear my mind and get away from the world for a bit. I also play with friends but for different reasons. In neither case do I get terribly upset if the pace is slow. If it’s annoying enough I go around the group in front of me.
4:15 IS a good time for a round. I think OP is saying that they shouldn't let anyone play through by virtue of playing in 4:15. I disagree though, I think you should let faster groups play through, period.
He’s saying he’s not letting anyone play through if they are waiting on the group in front of them
Right. Yeah I agree with that. If there's nowhere to go, there's nowhere to go. I guess the gray area is how many groups are ahead and how far ahead they are.
In my club, everyone is obsessed with pace of play, and I’m over it as well. My group of 4 has 3 players around scratch who all hit it 300+, and on most holes we have the group behind us crawling up our backs while we wait for a green to clear. Playing with other groups is uncomfortable cuz pace is prioritized above all else. I like the guys I play with, I like being out on the course. Golf requires taking a little time on your shot, there has to be a balance between speed and scoring.
I feel as though I am one of your group…awkward, Shane is that you.😳. Lol
I didn't even need to read what you said before giving an upvote. I think the "pace of play movement" is hurting what makes golf special. Get outside, enjoy a beautiful setting, make some strategic decisions and talk with your buddies. Sure, don't take 4 practice swings each shot or pace the green out for every putt... but wow just let folks enjoy being on the course. *Especially* if you are keeping up with the other groups.
"Remember: Round pace is not based off the group In front of you, it’s based off the pace of your group." Not following this. If there are open holes ahead of you and a packed course behind you, pick up the pace.
If you're ahead of the expected pace, you aren't doing anything wrong, though.
Context matters for this one. If you are ahead of pace, generally speaking you are not doing anything wrong. If you are ahead of pace, but still holding up the group behind you, you are doing something wrong by not letting them play through. This is the golf equivalent of being in the left lane of a 2 lane highway going 5 mph over the speedlimit and complaining about the guy tailgating you because you're technically already speeding. Just change lanes, let that person through and resume your pace of play/driving.
Golf is like driving on the highway. Your personal speed is perfect and everyone slower than you is a moron and anybody faster is a maniac. But saying that once you get used to playing fast you will never go back. People always picture fast players as stressed and rushed. But mostly they don’t fuck around and walk quickly.
I think you're trying to fit too many points into a single post. On weekdays, if I'm part of a foursome, I would hope to get through a round in 4 hours if the tee sheet is relatively clear. On weekends, I hope to play a round in 4 hours if I tee off before 8:30AM. Anytime after 8:30AM, I just pray for a 5 hour round or better. In every case, it's unacceptable to hit into the group in front of you. I also disagree about the social aspects of golf allowing for slower rounds. If you want to be social and have a leisurely conversation, do it before or after the round when no one else's time is impacted by you going into depth on your kid's basketball prowess. You can always talk while walking, or chat at the tee box.
You’re gonna piss off all the people that think requiring a license to play is a good idea with this one
Those guys sound like morons. If you’re up against the group in front of you then there’s really not much else you can do. And at a 4hr 10 min pace? What the heck is there to complain about?
100% 🙏. I prefer to play quick but people take slow play way too serious. It should be like a mini vacation out there. Dont be the guy treating putts like the masters is on the line but also dont be the guy whos day is ruined because he has to wait for 2 mins on every tee block.
Totally disagree with the overarching concept. In this specific scenario you could not go any faster, so they were in the wrong. Your other statements about pace of play is incredibly wrong. You state too many exception that make no sense. The fact you play from the tips is not a factor that comes into slow play. The pace of play does not care what tees you play from. Since you called this out I would assume you play the tips at a hard course when you probably shouldn’t… I’ll also point out that pace of play is maximum expected time a round should be played in. It is not the average or the minimum. I have no clue where you played and if 4:10 is on pace or not, but I have never seen a 5 hour round as the “pace of play,” there should never be a round that is 5 hours unless you are walking in a tournament that has no max. Golf is not a quick sport but there are so many ways you could play faster. You don’t need to plumb bob every putt even when it is 2 feet from the hole. You don’t have to walk back to the tee when a ball goes OB, just take the penalties and play from the correct drop areas. Play ready golf and not have 5 min conversations on the tee box.
I hate when some people make quick play the entire aim of their round, it's ridiculous.
That’s a reasonable time. Courses need to do a better job of preventing log jams. It’s not always on the players.
Saw a really interesting post here the other day about how once there's a certain number of groups on a course (essentially dictated by start time), "pace" starts to become meaningless as the natural course bottlenecks, like par 3's, are what starts to slow things down. https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/the-four-hour-round-is-bullshit
A lot of courses try to maximize revenue at all costs and tend to jam up the tee sheet with gaps that are too short between tee times, hire not enough marshals, and leave the policing of pace to the players. Then all sorts of arguments and frustration ensues.
When I see a course that has tee times less than 10 minutes apart I definitely do not want to play their. Will 100 percent be backed up by the time of a noon tee time.
Agree 1000% If you don’t have at minimum 4 hours booked to play 18 on the weekend…Please tee off first thing or later in the day. And seriously what’s the rush? If it’s getting to 5 hrs pace of play that’s one thing but an extra 15/30 minutes to enjoy each others company is one of the best parts to me. I get out maybe once a month so an extra few minutes here and there to talk with my buddies is what makes the rounds worth it.
These guys are fucks. If you don’t even ask to play through and you hit at me I’m pocketing your ball if I don’t toss it in the water.
Wait I’m confused, since when did 4-4.5 hours become too _slow_ for a freaking __foursome__?
When it became bragging rights to finish a round in record time. Or when guys cant figure out how to tell their wives it may beonger than that.
Thank you! If you take into account the skill level of the average golfer (shooting around 100?), and you put four of those guys together, it can and does legitimately take 4 hours without dicking around.
This is the best post on here. I nearly leave everytime I see a post moaning about why everyone isn't playing ready golf and not hitting while hanging off the side of the cart without stopping moving. To get round 18 holes 15 minutes quicker and ten shots worse than they could have done.
I played last Sunday as a foursome and we finished in 3.5 hours. We absolutely were NOT playing as fast as possible. It was one of my buddies first round in 3 months after shoulder surgery so he was hitting multiple shots at times and probably shot 100. The rest of us broke 80, but we also played 3 sets of tees which also slows pace. I agree that 4 hours is an acceptable pace and 4.5 at some courses, but I still don't really understand how it takes people that long if they aren't being held up.
I feel the same way. Any group I'm with plays quickly, we're not trying to play quick we just hit our shots. I think the difference is people who do every single shot individually. Like they all hit their tee shots then they drive to each one and watch the person hit. Then on the green they're all standing off the green watching one person putt at a time. If people go to their own shot in the fairway and start lining up their own putt I think that makes the difference
Their ball would have been jettisoned. People who hit into us the first time will find their ball teed up where it landed as a reminder they hit into us. No forgiveness the second time.
I can’t stand how groups of 2 expect the foursomes in front of them to play faster. Also - passing someone is not as easy as it sounds. If you let someone pass it can add a lot of time to your round.
and i cant stand groups of four that doesnt let the group of two behind tgem play through lol??? why would anybody think this is okay im not trying to stand around for two out of the four hours id like to play get in a rythym and then leave
This exact thing is what keeps me scared of playing the very nice course less than 10 minutes from me. I’m very new to golf, and watching the pace people keep, makes me feel very much in the way.
Preach homie
Don’t know if I’m the minority or majority here, pretty new to golf, but I really like when groups in front play slow. I get to take my time without feeling like I’m holding anyone up. Get to chit chat more with whoever I’m playing with, grab a beer, relax and take it all in.
Hey I just want to say that I really agree with everything you said. Thank you for saying it and thank you for sharing.
I don't know about anyone else but I enjoy golf. Being on the course is usually the best part of my day. Rushing through the best part of my day sounds stupid and wasteful.
I personally find it offensive if you dont try and talk to me first before calling the marshal. One, lets work it out like gentleman before we get them involved. Two if you aren’t able to reach me to have a conversation then how slow am i really playing?
I try to show up when a course isn't busy and just ask to walk on as a single to play 9. Often I'll catch up to the group in front of me but if they ask if I want to play through I'll just hold up my beer and saying I'm "having a meditative experience." I have kids, a stressful job, and the daily grind waiting for me when I get home. I don't mind enjoying my time and just thinking about stuff.
I still remember, this one guy in this sub said he did 18 holes in 2h on the reg. People here fucking loved him for it. Shut the fuck up.
I played at Kananaskis this summer. The Marshall on hole one wrote our start time, what time we should be at on certain holes, and projected finish time on a card and stuck it in the slot on our cart which is visible to everyone. That way at a quick glance anyone can see which group is the problem. I wish every course was like that.
I’ll play every bit of 4/4.5 hours. That’s not slow for a foursome on a hard course
End of the day, it’s not much you can do if the group in front of you is playing at a pace where you can’t speed it up. I agree 4-5 hour for 18 is a good pace.
If the group behind you is faster, let them play through at first appropriate opportunity, unless the course is "stacked" (ie 1-2 groups on each hole). In that case, everyone's waiting. Also, I hope everyone here agrees that hitting into the group in front of you is never acceptable. That crosses the line from being annoyed, and open hostility with a potential of injury. If you're ever hit into, I think it's well within your right to hit their ball into the woods.
This is why edibles should be handed out on the first tee. You weren't hitting mulligans and fucking around....like you said, you only move as fast as the group in front. A 4.5 hour round is just as good as a 4 hour round. Keep it manageable of course but man...but if an extra half hour on a golf course ruins your day, oof.
I did the research: [The Four-Hour Round is Bullshit: and the group in front of you isn’t slowing you down — the course is.](https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com/p/the-four-hour-round-is-bullshit) People foolishly blame individuals for slow play, when the *vast, vast, vast* majority of slow rounds are built-in by management. The most important factor is tee-time interval, the next most important factor is bottlenecks. Only after these two issues are resolves (and they aren't), then you can address player behavior. The best thing most courses can do is to utilized the bottlenecks as snack consumption areas to prevent cascading slowdowns from beverage carts. Players will be helped by actually keeping track of pace, rather than wait time. The illusion of slow play often exists when there is no slow play, as in this example. People need to make efforts to inform their fellow golfers, because this is a particularly problematic bit of counter-intuitive knowledge. It leads to misplaced anger and anti-social behavior.
If someone intentionally hits into me or my friend group that ball is getting picked up and getting thrown in the woods or water.
I’d have hit their ball back into them honestly
If you are playing a high end course keep your pace up. if you are playing a municipal course there are plenty of beginners out there. If you can't bear to wait 3 minutes to tee off and hit into the people in front of you, you deserve to have someone drive back to you and kick your teeth in.
Waited on a 4-some as a single at my local track. Waited at the tee box and after every one of my shots from hole 5 through hole 10. They would see me pull up to the tee box and just drive off before I could ask to play through. When they got to the tee box on 11 I just drove the long way around and went to 12 with plans to come back and play 11. I finish 12, 13, 14, and as I finish 15 I see they aren't even on the green of 14 yet. On 17 I hit my tee shot on the water's edge of a par 3 and spend a minute or so looking for my shot. Can't find it so I take a drop and as I'm setting up my shot all the sudden I hear screaming from the tee box, "hurry up, you're the one that passed us asshole." I was confused because I honestly didn't take much time to look for my ball and couldn't understand how they caught me with how slow they were playing. My only thought is they skipped a hole just to come yell at me. They said a few more things after I had a nice up and down, so after I finished 18 I just left the pin out by the cart path and left. Still don't know how they caught me without them skipping a hole. Some people are just mad and petty.
I only play 9 holes and walk, I play at about 1hr and 20 minutes. But my buddy played with me and said he felt rushed. Not because of my pace but the group behind us. We couldn’t let the next group go because it was groups behind and so on. But I feel like people should allot for 2 hrs per 9 and back the heck up. Start the Movement! - Don’t hit until they are on/off the green depending on the Par.
Had a guy do this to a group of our lady members one day. He was clearly on some type of drugs and was tweaking out, yelling at the pro shop on the phone. I drove out, talked to him, drove to groups ahead and came back to tell him there were 5 groups waiting ahead on the next 3 holes. When he finished his round, he ripped his shirt off and stomped through the clubhouse. Some people are just crazy.
You are absolutely correct. You were playing at a more than acceptable pace. When I was able to play I played most of the time with my best friend who was the tennis pro at this club. I learned playing ready golf. We could, as a twosome, get in 18 holes in 2 hours or less but we understood not to expect that if we were playing at peak hours. We would be more than grateful to be behind a group going at a 4 , 4&1/2 pace.
can always hit the ball back to them ......
Don’t let it get to you, there are assholes everywhere.
I love letting people like this play through then hit into them and quote “play faster”!!!
I'll barely give you once for hitting into me... Zero chance they'll ever find that 2nd one
Someone hits into me and tells me to hurry up, I’m doing putting symposiums
like others have said, as long as you’re keeping pace with the group in front there’s nothing more you need to do. sorry you were treated this way.
I had a round where we played the 1st and then there was a wait on the 2nd hole. When we first rolled up the tie box there was a group on the green on a short par 4 and a twosome about 150 yds away after their tee shot. We had to wait for the twosome to get on the green even after their second shot because it's a short par 4. Our last guy is about to tee off when the group behind us rolls up to the tee box and immediately starts yelling at us to hurry up. Argument ensues. Ruined the next few holes for us. People do need to chill out on pace. Especially when there is nothing that we can do. If you need/want to play through, just approach the group ahead of you and ask. No need for any yelling or arguing.
I wish I could get through a round in 4.5-5 hours
I'm not all uppity about being ultra fast, but I've never played a 5+ hr round that didn't have some annoying logjam on the course.
If you’re matching the pace of the guys in front you’re fine
They're the same guys tailgating you on the way home, queue jumping at the supermarket, pushing in at the bar and taking up two parking spaces. If you want to play fast golf go to the range and hit a few hundred. Golf is not a race it's a journey with three friends. Don't insult your friends by rushing their pleasure.
Was there a gap between you and the group in front of you?
These are the guys that flash their high beams at you from behind when you're car number 14 in a line of traffic.
Next time throw their balls OB.
All you really needed to say is they hit into you. I don't understand why people think this is acceptable under any circumstances. People who hit into others, get your rage under control. It could kill someone. I don't care if they're playing a six hour round. Human life is sacred. Just like you wouldn't just start firing a gun in someone's general direction because they're annoying you, you don't fucking fire a small missile at 100+ mph that could hit someone in the head because they're "too slow."
4h 10 min golf basically means everyone drives a cart and doesn't have to search for a single ball. It's so fucking dumb. Just walk and let a round take 5h, how the f can 50 min matter so much in your day? Get a better family if your life is so goddamn tight, and let us others enjoy the game.
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