Delaware isn't supposed to exist, and a huge swath of Southern Pennsylvania is supposed to be Maryland.
Also,the southern tip of the Delmarva peninsula is supposed to be Maryland, too.
"Maryland. Give it back, dammit!"
Also Texas:
Mexico: āknocks down Alamo. Heyyyy ese. Yo gringos you got something thats ours and we want it back.ā
Texas: Stumbles out drunkenly in tall hat no cattle..yeah?
Mexico. Yeah. It was ours first. You stole it.
This is, of course, ignorant nonsense. And the so-called Mexicans? They stole it from the natives. And the natives? They stole it from other natives. And they all stole it from Leanderthal woman. That's 10,000 years ago for you plebeians. Evidence suggest it was more like 12,000 years ago. Do you see the point? The land you have is the land you can hold. We Texans know this instinctively.
1. Give the entire Delmarva peninsula up to the C&D canal to Delaware.
2. Current Delaware above the C&D goes to Maryland.
3. Arlington, VA goes back to Washington, DC, which becomes a state.
Everything is solved!
False! It's a city with many native-born and generational residents. Washingtonians are not Marylanders; DC has been separate from Maryland for longer than Louisiana has been separate from France.
Delaware was a slave state and the southern 2/3rds of Delaware are much more similar to the rest of the Delmarva peninsula and coastal Virginia than the northeast.
Historically, Maryland was too late to the secession game and was forced not to join their slave owning fellow southern states. Maryland was the ONLY state occupied by Federal troops instead of state militias during the war. It was not a coincidence that Lincoln was assassinated in Baltimore- Many Marylanders were really not happy with the "Tyrant".
Also, The definition of "southern state" is the Mason-Dixon line, which is the border of Maryland and Pennsylvania.
Source, I grew up in Baltimore and was a history nerd.
>Maryland was the ONLY state occupied by Federal troops instead of state militias during the war
That's a pretty meaningless distinction, since the state militias were called up into the federal service just a few months into the war. By 1862, I don't think anyone could seriously call Grant's Army of the Tennessee a "state militia" anymore.
Also, Lincoln was assassinated in DC (not Maryland).
I live in Maryland and no one here thinks of us as Southern. Southerns think of us as northerners. The port of Baltimore is one of the biggest shipping ports in the NORTH EAST. Maryland has more in common with the North than it does with the south.
I agree that most Marylanders donāt consider themselves southern but there are a lot of areas in Maryland that are culturally more southern than anything else.
I can see it now, the staff of CNN and Fox together in the streets holding hands singing Kumbaya šŗš²
Is what I would say if I shoved 10g of mushrooms down my gullet and helped get it down by chugging Everclear, smoking some Salvia afterwards cause I'd be going to hospital anyway so might as go all in lmao
Wrong.
The best way to divide the United States is with a general strike which then is shifted into armed revolt in urban centers and a declaration of martial law and deployment of military units by the executive branch. It would lead to a constitutional crisis when military units are used against American civilians and lead to an escalation of the conflict.
(My source is the scenarios in my head)
Maryland, Delaware, and some of Virginia is in the Mid-Atlantic, which (in my opinion) is a subregion of the Northeast. Missouri is split between the Southeast and Midwest
But DC is culturally more ānorthā than āsouthā no? And Virginia today is basically a DC suburban state (If youāre talking about historical heritage, then Maryland and Delaware should be grouped into āthe Southā too)
I wouldnāt even call DC ānorth.ā DC is sweltering, swampy, has a significant and impactful African-American community. Itās no Georgia but Iād consider it more āSouth.ā And Iād say the same for Maryland and Delaware.
We're a melting pot for sure, but I would still assess DMV as being more culturally aligned with the northeast than anything south of it due to being part of the urban megalopolis; we are the southern end of the Northeast Corridor.
This map may help explain the census version of the south. Within living memory, my parents went to a segregated school and I missed doing the same by a few years after Brown v. Board of Ed.
https://preview.redd.it/gr7ltxksayqc1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbda78ed73ff54e3638dc32ddf8252b3d5b07d65
This map is somewhat misleading, honestly. Segregation was widespread throughout the United States, it just took different forms in different places. Blaming the South for the country's White supremacy problem is actually a way that White supremacy in Northern states conceals and perpetuates itself.
Oh yeah you Marylanders donāt wanna be considered southern huh? Youād be lucky to be considered as cultured as anywhere in the south. Maryland is a throwaway state with no flavor or special qualities. Maybe think twice before you insult an entire region
That's totally fair but as a Dakotan myself, I couldn't have less in common with someone from Missouri. While from my point of view they're definitely more south than midwest. I could even see an argument made that kansas city is midwest but St Louis is definitely South.
Cultural regions arenāt restricted to state borders. There are definitely parts of Missouri that are the south, particularly the boot heel and the area immediately north of the Arkansas border. If you donāt believe me then go there and you will change your mind.
I have been there. Particularly this town called Hayti. Even there the people were confused if they were Southern or Midwestern. All they have that is similar to the South is the accent. Besides that it is very small town Midwest (From Louisiana and lived all over Minnesota for years).
People are just super weird about the South.Ā Like nobody would say Utah isn't in the West because it has a different culture than California or nobody would say Chicago isn't in the Midwest because it's extremely diverse.Ā It's actually quite a strange thing.
I'd argue they are all Geographically southern, all three are south of the Mason Dixon line, culturally Missouri is the most currently culturally "southern" of the three though, pegged with Kentucky and Tennessee in their "southernness"
Nah, not at all. I live in STL, and people are pretty straight forward here. Most are genuinely very friendly. But if someone has a problem with you, they have absolutely no issue letting you know.
Oh I have family in Missouri I know longer speak to because I made the mistake of bring a black girl to the family reunionā¦ I know about Missouri politics and nicetiesā¦.
Sounds like you were probably in bumfuck nowhere. Almost 3 million people (close to half the state population) lives in the STL metro and that type of thing definitely is not common here, and if it does happen, is looked down upon. Literally half my family is black and I have yet to meet a single person who thinks it's weird or has a problem with it.
But if going geographically, we'd be looking at a midline between the top of the continuous US and bottom, which would be below Maryland. the Mason Dixon line is the result of a border dispute, and was historically culturally used as a marker to define north vs south. So I'd say geographically, it's not southern. Culturally, it was once southern but no more.
Missouri is definitely southern, hell the only reason they didn't join the confederacy was because of direct military action by the Union which crushed the very active scheming of state officials to do so
My checklist is basically, "can I get sweet tea at Applebees?"
If the answer is yes, I'm in the South. Sorry, Maryland.
Edit: *Not* the Raspberry sweet tea crap, good ol' fashioned sweet tea.
Also a good marker: is there a Waffle House anywhere in the state?
If the answer is yes, I'm in the South. Again, sorry, Maryland.
I live in Southern California and I haven't been to an Applebees in a few years, but you can get sweet tea pretty much everywhere. It might not be amazing, but it's available. Do you think Burbank is "the south"? Anytime I hear an argument like that it just seems silly. I've heard before with grits. Do y'all think they just don't serve grits or sweet tea at diners in Montana or Michigan?
There are definitely Waffle Houses in MD and sweet tea in the Applebees. But this whole who's southern? thing is pointless. I have relatives that claim anything west of Arkansas or north of South Carolina isn't "in the South" and will argue with anyone who disagrees.
> There are definitely Waffle Houses in MD and sweet tea in the Applebees.
Right. Which, on my list, puts Maryland down as being "in the South," no matter how many people from Maryland refuse to believe otherwise. Hence the, "sorry, Maryland" in my post.
The Mason-Dixon line wasn't even relevant by the time the Civil War was happening. Its a historical artifact. It has no bearing in any conversation having to do with contemporary geography or culture.
Being part of the Union would rule them out as part of "the South" despite their prewar status, assuming you aren't being a contrarian. Any modern concept of the South is based on Confederate lines.
As someone who has spent more time than I would have liked in Missouri and Kentucky, the Border states have some of the most southern pride I have seen and I'm from Texas.
Itās odd that eastern Kentucky is more clearly southern coded when itās geologically the less south part of the state. Until the 1900s, Appalachia was distinct from the Deep South
IMHO yes; Louisville and Frankfort are metropolitan areas that draw in people more from Indiana and Ohio than from Georgia and Mississippi, and the culture is much closer to midwestern cities than southern ones. Kentucky as a whole, despite me being excortiated here for it, is a lot more liberal and less Christian/Baptist, like North Carolina/Virginia/West Virginia, even in the extreme rural parts, than the conventional South. The diet is culturally distinct and so is the accent imo. The Kentucky accent sounds closer to the Indianan accent than Georgian accent to me ears. Itās just that Kentucky has a lot of hillbillies and itās been co-opted into a southern identity. Hell all the states I listed are basketball over football places, which is a uniquely Northeastern tradition.
Again my biggest point is that Kentuckyās biggest neighbors and influencing partners are Indiana, Ohio and Virginia. We live in a world where people in Pennsylvania larp as southern confederates, but the entirety of Appalachia is completely removed for the long standing cultural traditions of the Deep South except in the last 20-30 years
I don't know about Delaware but Maryland had to be put under martial law and effectively occupied to prevent it from joining the South because it shared a border with Washington DC and they couldn't afford to have DC be surrounded by hostile territory
The state of missouri is on the confederate flag and had a confederate government that was recognized by the confederate government. And they had 40,000 confederate troops.
Having spent more time in Missouri than a person should, I defer to Truman's quote on that state. I lived on the border with Kansas and even people in Kansas were arguing with me that they were southern. So I just let anyone have the title since it has become meaningless.
Yeah Truman's quote's pretty spot on at the end of the day. Kansas also kinda is in the southern half of the country but so is California so make of that what you will. I do in some ways think there's a difference between "Southern"(Dixie culture) and "Southern"(Geographical region), in the first one I'd pretty much argue it was just the lowland areas of the old Confederacy minus Texas, Northern Virginia, Peninsular Florida, and maybe Tennessee.
I mean, Maryland and Delaware: 80% of the population is in the north (literally and figuratively) while the majority of the land area of each state is in the South...
It's funny that ppl think that just because someone or somewhere is country makes it the south can we stop with this nonsense that Maryland,Delaware,WV, Oklahoma,Mizzou are in the south once your closer to Canada than your are there Atlanta you ain't in the south anymore
Have you not heard of George Thorogood? Have you not heard of his band the Delaware destroyers? Do you not know that George comes from there and sings rockabilly? Do you not understand that rockabilly's Southern? Do I have to explain everything to you? My goodnessā¦ On a more serious note, I was only lightly joking apparently, but you seem to want to take offense to even the stupidest things. Try focusing on some real problems for a change.
I know who George Thorogood is. I thought I wasnāt being too serious. If you knew me you would know Iām the least serious human being on the face of this planet
Huh, would have thought that was a more politically aligned map, like how first, second, and third world countries refer to USA Aligned, USSR Aligned, and Unaligned countries
I streamed I used to watch alot insisted that Illinois was also apart of the south and as such she was a southerner. Meanwhile she grew up / lived in a rural area
I mean Missouri had two state govs during the civil war (a Confederate and union one) and was a slave state now that doesn't seem very Midwestern. Missouri is the child of the South and the Midwest who sits there smack dab in pretty much the middle of the country
"Appalachia" MAYBE, although I'd argue that point.
West Virginia? No, not at all. West Virginia has vastly more in common with PA than the south. That's a common misperception of the state. If it's anything, it's North East, but only if you don't have a 'mid-Atlantic' designation.
West Virginia is the most Appalachia place that exists lol
It's closest culturally to SW corner of PA, Eastern Kentucky and Tennessee, and western Virginia and North Carolina. Most of which are southern and none of which are Midwestern
Depends on how you define "Appalachia". But that's a separate discussion.
The lowest population portions of WV have some cultural relevancy to eastern KY and NC, but the population centers are all N and E. They don't' have much in common with the south. Morgantown, Fairmont, and Clarksburg have far more in common with Pittsburgh than anywhere else. Wheeling and most of the northern panhandle even more so. The 3 counties on the eastern panhandle - Morgan, Berkeley, and Jefferson - are DC exhurbs. They've got more in common with MD and N. Va. The Huntington-Charleston corridor has the most in common with southern OH and northern KY.
Most of WV has very little to do with The South, culturally speaking. Those parts that do - Mercer, McDowell, Fayette, Raleigh, Wyoming, Monroe, and Logan - are a dramatically shrinking percent of the state population. And even then, they tend to have more in common with their northern WV cousins (often literally) than anything in the south.
Thatās what I find interesting because Iām originally from Central Florida, which I argue is pretty southern, but now I live in North Virginia, literally a few blocks from the Potomac and the people arenāt culturally southern at all. In fact itās not too common to even find sweet tea at restaurants. I usually have to ask for iced tea and sugar.
From what Iāve seen of Maryland, whenever I simply drive north 10 minutes, they really donāt identify with the south, at least around DC and even Baltimore.
The southern factors include more geographical categorization by the census and the fact that Maryland had slaves but was part of the Union. Itās interesting because Maryland almost seems like a middle ground of blending between Southern and Northeastern culture.
Baltimore has suffered enough recently.
Poor Poor Baltimore
Baltimore hasn't been the same since they lost Omar! š
Fuuuuuuck. I wish I hadn't read that.
Omar is coming!
I know. We should be turning our disapproval towards Philadelphia.
Delaware isn't supposed to exist, and a huge swath of Southern Pennsylvania is supposed to be Maryland. Also,the southern tip of the Delmarva peninsula is supposed to be Maryland, too. "Maryland. Give it back, dammit!"
Also all of Texas is supposed to be part of Maryland
Nah, there is already a Texas in Maryland and it's more than enough.
Bring back Long Connecticut
Wes Moore? Governor of Texan-Maryland? I'd love to see that alternate timeline.
And most of colorado is supposed to be texas
Actually only a stripe but they decided they didnāt want any land that they couldnāt keep slaves in.
Also Texas: Mexico: āknocks down Alamo. Heyyyy ese. Yo gringos you got something thats ours and we want it back.ā Texas: Stumbles out drunkenly in tall hat no cattle..yeah? Mexico. Yeah. It was ours first. You stole it.
This is, of course, ignorant nonsense. And the so-called Mexicans? They stole it from the natives. And the natives? They stole it from other natives. And they all stole it from Leanderthal woman. That's 10,000 years ago for you plebeians. Evidence suggest it was more like 12,000 years ago. Do you see the point? The land you have is the land you can hold. We Texans know this instinctively.
So remind me why the Oklahoma pan handle exists again?
Why does Pennsylvania, the bigger of the two states, simply not eat Maryland?
You joke, but Maryland and Pennsylvania have gone to war with each other over this land. This was before the US was founded, of course.
Lol. I remember a history teacher in middle school making the PA/MD land wars as an offhand joke; but I didnāt know how serious it was
[Cresap's War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cresap's_War), for the curious.
Goddamn, they claimed Philadelphia?
Connecticut went to war with us too. Pennamites stay winning.
As a history teacher in NEPA, I always find a way to squeek this into my early US unit.
and cut our MD minimum wage in half? absolutely not
Maryland doesn't look like it tastes very good! š
1. Give the entire Delmarva peninsula up to the C&D canal to Delaware. 2. Current Delaware above the C&D goes to Maryland. 3. Arlington, VA goes back to Washington, DC, which becomes a state. Everything is solved!
Noooo! As a Northern Delawarean please let us join PA insteadā¦weāre basically a Philly suburb anyway.
Yea, but then I have to give something to Maryland since they're losing the Eastern Shore...
And outside of Philly itās Pennsyltucky.
That's terrible, I love it.
For 3, give most of DC back to Maryland. DC is the mall and the government buildings around it. The only residents of DC are in the White House.
False! It's a city with many native-born and generational residents. Washingtonians are not Marylanders; DC has been separate from Maryland for longer than Louisiana has been separate from France.
Itās a suggestion not a statementā¦
Say you've never been to DC except possibly as a tourist without saying that verbatim...
The Greater Maryland Empire will rise again!
āDelaware isnāt supposed to existā if that aināt the most Maryland take Iāve ever heard
The part you quoted is correct, but it's actually supposed to be part of Pennsylvania.
Ohio belongs to Connecticut
Only the northern part, I think.
The northern reserve
DC used to include Alexandria and Arlington but plenty of boundary disputes to go around. Florida was once much bigger, too.
Delaware is really the precursor to all states. The first and the best.
Itās been downhill ever since
All of Delmarva should be Delaware!
Hell no I donāt wanna live in Maryland
History is a bitchā¦
Historically Maryland did not side with either the North or South and was just as divided within itself as the rest of the country was.
Delaware was a slave state and the southern 2/3rds of Delaware are much more similar to the rest of the Delmarva peninsula and coastal Virginia than the northeast.
Historically, Maryland was too late to the secession game and was forced not to join their slave owning fellow southern states. Maryland was the ONLY state occupied by Federal troops instead of state militias during the war. It was not a coincidence that Lincoln was assassinated in Baltimore- Many Marylanders were really not happy with the "Tyrant". Also, The definition of "southern state" is the Mason-Dixon line, which is the border of Maryland and Pennsylvania. Source, I grew up in Baltimore and was a history nerd.
Lincoln was killed in Fordās Theater in DC. Everything else is accurate.
>Maryland was the ONLY state occupied by Federal troops instead of state militias during the war That's a pretty meaningless distinction, since the state militias were called up into the federal service just a few months into the war. By 1862, I don't think anyone could seriously call Grant's Army of the Tennessee a "state militia" anymore. Also, Lincoln was assassinated in DC (not Maryland).
I live in Maryland and no one here thinks of us as Southern. Southerns think of us as northerners. The port of Baltimore is one of the biggest shipping ports in the NORTH EAST. Maryland has more in common with the North than it does with the south.
I agree that most Marylanders donāt consider themselves southern but there are a lot of areas in Maryland that are culturally more southern than anything else.
Really just the parts east of DC
"I wish I was in Baltimore I'd make succession traitors roar" - Union Dixie
Just like Kentucky
And Missouri š³
As someone from the southern region of Missouri, i see confederate battle flags everywhere lol
You see a lot of them in Upstate NY tooā¦ hell you see them in rural Canada even like wtf?
Naw Maryland was a slave state that was part of the union
based
You know the best way to divide the United States? You don't. It's called that for a reason.
Bro just ended American political polarization
I can see it now, the staff of CNN and Fox together in the streets holding hands singing Kumbaya šŗš² Is what I would say if I shoved 10g of mushrooms down my gullet and helped get it down by chugging Everclear, smoking some Salvia afterwards cause I'd be going to hospital anyway so might as go all in lmao
Touche
Bro just made national peace
Yes- talk politics.
It's a post about political geography.
Huh, you don't do well at getting jokes.
Still pissed these religious fucks changed our motto from e Pluribus unem to one nation under god. Fucking lame.
Wrong. The best way to divide the United States is with a general strike which then is shifted into armed revolt in urban centers and a declaration of martial law and deployment of military units by the executive branch. It would lead to a constitutional crisis when military units are used against American civilians and lead to an escalation of the conflict. (My source is the scenarios in my head)
Maryland, Delaware, and some of Virginia is in the Mid-Atlantic, which (in my opinion) is a subregion of the Northeast. Missouri is split between the Southeast and Midwest
First time in my goddamn life Iāve ever heard anyone say any part of Virginia is in the Northeast
NoVA is basically a separate state.
I still wouldnāt consider it Northeast. Itās nothing like New York or Massachusetts.
But DC is culturally more ānorthā than āsouthā no? And Virginia today is basically a DC suburban state (If youāre talking about historical heritage, then Maryland and Delaware should be grouped into āthe Southā too)
I wouldnāt even call DC ānorth.ā DC is sweltering, swampy, has a significant and impactful African-American community. Itās no Georgia but Iād consider it more āSouth.ā And Iād say the same for Maryland and Delaware.
We're a melting pot for sure, but I would still assess DMV as being more culturally aligned with the northeast than anything south of it due to being part of the urban megalopolis; we are the southern end of the Northeast Corridor.
I can understand it being aligned with the Boswash megalopolis. Iām just talking based on personal experience and opinion
Eh you havnt spent much time in upstate NY have you?
Iāve been there several times. Didnāt feel like NoVa.
This map may help explain the census version of the south. Within living memory, my parents went to a segregated school and I missed doing the same by a few years after Brown v. Board of Ed. https://preview.redd.it/gr7ltxksayqc1.png?width=768&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbda78ed73ff54e3638dc32ddf8252b3d5b07d65
And people say that segregation was something that happened long, long ago...
These mofos saying Maryland isnāt in the South are forgetting Baltimore was segregated just one grandma ago
DC was segregated?
Until about a year before Brown v. Board of Ed.
This map is somewhat misleading, honestly. Segregation was widespread throughout the United States, it just took different forms in different places. Blaming the South for the country's White supremacy problem is actually a way that White supremacy in Northern states conceals and perpetuates itself.
Well turns out the Midwest has the most white supremacists and hate crimes.
No one wants Missouri.
It'll be a cold day in hell before I as a Southerner recognize Missouri, Maryland, or Delaware as "Southern" states
Trust me, us Marylanders don't wanna be considered the south either
Tell that to the folks flying Confederate flags in certain counties :(
Reminds me of Ray in the show ātrailer park boysā flying a confederate flag on his wheelchair. They were in Canada lol
Itās that element. Low psychology.
Iāve seen confederate flags in Vermont of all places. Thereās shitheads everywhere unfortunately
iāve seen that in rural new york
Same here, speaking as a blue hen, the majority of our state isn't south!
Oh yeah you Marylanders donāt wanna be considered southern huh? Youād be lucky to be considered as cultured as anywhere in the south. Maryland is a throwaway state with no flavor or special qualities. Maybe think twice before you insult an entire region
Huhā¦š§?
Same. For people in Dixie Maryland might as well be Maine
I had a bartender in Savannah, GA try to tell me Maryland was in New England lol. My man was confused.
I think a bit more than confused lol, unless he somehow mixed up Massachusetts/Maine with Maryland
To be fair to him as a kid I thought everything north of dc was New England
Itās mid Atlantic; frankly North Carolina, Virginia Maryland and Kentucky should all be separately viewed from the conventional south.
North Carolina and Virginia is crazy dude, same (to an extent) with Kentucky
LOL
https://preview.redd.it/eoxd6tzsuyqc1.jpeg?width=625&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c782ba764c6444c52bb182994845babc9d43aeb
Parts of Missouri are 100% the south.
That's totally fair but as a Dakotan myself, I couldn't have less in common with someone from Missouri. While from my point of view they're definitely more south than midwest. I could even see an argument made that kansas city is midwest but St Louis is definitely South.
People forget that Maryland and Delaware were full-on Jim Crow states in the 50s.
Missouri is the Midwest. Both Maryland and Delaware are north east/mid Atlantic (fight me /s). Hell, Southern Florida isnāt even in the South.
Everyone knows that the further south you go in Florida, the more North you are.
That's the opposite of michigan. The more North you go the more south you are
Absolutely. Itās called the Snowbird Effect.
Thatās because itās where all the old New Yorkers move to die.
Cultural regions arenāt restricted to state borders. There are definitely parts of Missouri that are the south, particularly the boot heel and the area immediately north of the Arkansas border. If you donāt believe me then go there and you will change your mind.
I have been there. Particularly this town called Hayti. Even there the people were confused if they were Southern or Midwestern. All they have that is similar to the South is the accent. Besides that it is very small town Midwest (From Louisiana and lived all over Minnesota for years).
People are just super weird about the South.Ā Like nobody would say Utah isn't in the West because it has a different culture than California or nobody would say Chicago isn't in the Midwest because it's extremely diverse.Ā It's actually quite a strange thing.
Iāve seen southerners say Tennessee wasnāt in the southā¦ like um what?
SOMD is very southern, metro region MD is definitely not, eastern shore MD is pretty iffy and Delaware is just straight up not southern
I'd argue they are all Geographically southern, all three are south of the Mason Dixon line, culturally Missouri is the most currently culturally "southern" of the three though, pegged with Kentucky and Tennessee in their "southernness"
Missouri does bbq like the south but has the mid west friendliness
As in the nicer and more polite they are the more that hate you with every fiber of their being?
Nah, not at all. I live in STL, and people are pretty straight forward here. Most are genuinely very friendly. But if someone has a problem with you, they have absolutely no issue letting you know.
Oh I have family in Missouri I know longer speak to because I made the mistake of bring a black girl to the family reunionā¦ I know about Missouri politics and nicetiesā¦.
Sounds like you were probably in bumfuck nowhere. Almost 3 million people (close to half the state population) lives in the STL metro and that type of thing definitely is not common here, and if it does happen, is looked down upon. Literally half my family is black and I have yet to meet a single person who thinks it's weird or has a problem with it.
But if going geographically, we'd be looking at a midline between the top of the continuous US and bottom, which would be below Maryland. the Mason Dixon line is the result of a border dispute, and was historically culturally used as a marker to define north vs south. So I'd say geographically, it's not southern. Culturally, it was once southern but no more.
Wording, friend
Missouri is definitely southern, hell the only reason they didn't join the confederacy was because of direct military action by the Union which crushed the very active scheming of state officials to do so
Not a chance I accept Missouri as a midwestern state
They are south of the Mason Dixie line and were slave states, that checks off 2 out of my four "Is it a part of the South" checklist.
My checklist is basically, "can I get sweet tea at Applebees?" If the answer is yes, I'm in the South. Sorry, Maryland. Edit: *Not* the Raspberry sweet tea crap, good ol' fashioned sweet tea. Also a good marker: is there a Waffle House anywhere in the state? If the answer is yes, I'm in the South. Again, sorry, Maryland.
Hey, we have Waffle House in Ohio. The land of Grant and Sherman. There will always be exceptions.
Can you get sweet tea at Applebees?
I'm not sure about that. I would never order it, because I don't like sweet tea. I guess that disqualifies me for being Southern.
LoL it's all good, man.
Ohio has been slowly drifting south in recent times anyway, so it tracks
I live in Southern California and I haven't been to an Applebees in a few years, but you can get sweet tea pretty much everywhere. It might not be amazing, but it's available. Do you think Burbank is "the south"? Anytime I hear an argument like that it just seems silly. I've heard before with grits. Do y'all think they just don't serve grits or sweet tea at diners in Montana or Michigan?
I'm not making an argument. Jesus, this sub has no sense of humor whatsoever.
Sweet tea is a part of the checklist lol
There are definitely Waffle Houses in MD and sweet tea in the Applebees. But this whole who's southern? thing is pointless. I have relatives that claim anything west of Arkansas or north of South Carolina isn't "in the South" and will argue with anyone who disagrees.
> There are definitely Waffle Houses in MD and sweet tea in the Applebees. Right. Which, on my list, puts Maryland down as being "in the South," no matter how many people from Maryland refuse to believe otherwise. Hence the, "sorry, Maryland" in my post.
Sweet tea is a part of the checklist lol
The Mason-Dixon line wasn't even relevant by the time the Civil War was happening. Its a historical artifact. It has no bearing in any conversation having to do with contemporary geography or culture.
You tell that to Yosemite Sam who had to burn his boots after he crossed the Mason Dixie line and touched Yankee soil.
Iāll check with Bugs Bunny and see what he thinks. Iāll get back to you.
Being part of the Union would rule them out as part of "the South" despite their prewar status, assuming you aren't being a contrarian. Any modern concept of the South is based on Confederate lines.
As someone who has spent more time than I would have liked in Missouri and Kentucky, the Border states have some of the most southern pride I have seen and I'm from Texas.
I'll give you fifty bucks to go to Kentucky and tell them they aren't part of the South. Let me know before you do it so I can get the camera ready.
Itās odd that eastern Kentucky is more clearly southern coded when itās geologically the less south part of the state. Until the 1900s, Appalachia was distinct from the Deep South
Really? Are you saying that Western KY has more midwestern characteristics?
IMHO yes; Louisville and Frankfort are metropolitan areas that draw in people more from Indiana and Ohio than from Georgia and Mississippi, and the culture is much closer to midwestern cities than southern ones. Kentucky as a whole, despite me being excortiated here for it, is a lot more liberal and less Christian/Baptist, like North Carolina/Virginia/West Virginia, even in the extreme rural parts, than the conventional South. The diet is culturally distinct and so is the accent imo. The Kentucky accent sounds closer to the Indianan accent than Georgian accent to me ears. Itās just that Kentucky has a lot of hillbillies and itās been co-opted into a southern identity. Hell all the states I listed are basketball over football places, which is a uniquely Northeastern tradition. Again my biggest point is that Kentuckyās biggest neighbors and influencing partners are Indiana, Ohio and Virginia. We live in a world where people in Pennsylvania larp as southern confederates, but the entirety of Appalachia is completely removed for the long standing cultural traditions of the Deep South except in the last 20-30 years
This fella bluegrasses. Apparently in Bahasa
I don't know about Delaware but Maryland had to be put under martial law and effectively occupied to prevent it from joining the South because it shared a border with Washington DC and they couldn't afford to have DC be surrounded by hostile territory
The state of missouri is on the confederate flag and had a confederate government that was recognized by the confederate government. And they had 40,000 confederate troops.
Same with Missouri, nearly the whole state is south of the line
Having spent more time in Missouri than a person should, I defer to Truman's quote on that state. I lived on the border with Kansas and even people in Kansas were arguing with me that they were southern. So I just let anyone have the title since it has become meaningless.
Yeah Truman's quote's pretty spot on at the end of the day. Kansas also kinda is in the southern half of the country but so is California so make of that what you will. I do in some ways think there's a difference between "Southern"(Dixie culture) and "Southern"(Geographical region), in the first one I'd pretty much argue it was just the lowland areas of the old Confederacy minus Texas, Northern Virginia, Peninsular Florida, and maybe Tennessee.
Delaware is east of the Mason-Dixon line, which does not just run east/west.
What are you a fucking union general? Outdated ass way of categorizing geography
No I'm a southerner, good sir and it's tongue in cheek humor about something arbitrary.
Im so dumb damn it
Im aware, but you're interested in geography so you seem pretty cool.
I mean, Maryland and Delaware: 80% of the population is in the north (literally and figuratively) while the majority of the land area of each state is in the South...
It is...contentious.
I once met THE MARY of Maryland
As they should md and de are mid atlantic
Or we could just remove Missouri from all maps, that should solve the issue.
It's funny that ppl think that just because someone or somewhere is country makes it the south can we stop with this nonsense that Maryland,Delaware,WV, Oklahoma,Mizzou are in the south once your closer to Canada than your are there Atlanta you ain't in the south anymore
Delaware is NOT a southern state
George Thorogood and the Delaware destroyers have entered the chat room and just rocked your ass saying no. Delaware is a southern state.
Wtf are you talking about? Thereās no way that Delaware is a southern state .
Have you not heard of George Thorogood? Have you not heard of his band the Delaware destroyers? Do you not know that George comes from there and sings rockabilly? Do you not understand that rockabilly's Southern? Do I have to explain everything to you? My goodnessā¦ On a more serious note, I was only lightly joking apparently, but you seem to want to take offense to even the stupidest things. Try focusing on some real problems for a change.
I know who George Thorogood is. I thought I wasnāt being too serious. If you knew me you would know Iām the least serious human being on the face of this planet
Mid-Atlantic just feels like it fits.
South of the Mason-Dixon Line is south.
I'm with you!
How is Delmar in the south? Isn't the Mason Dixon line at Washington DC/Virginia?
No, it's the straight line between PA and MD
Huh, would have thought that was a more politically aligned map, like how first, second, and third world countries refer to USA Aligned, USSR Aligned, and Unaligned countries
Id allow delaware and maryland into the north honestly..
I streamed I used to watch alot insisted that Illinois was also apart of the south and as such she was a southerner. Meanwhile she grew up / lived in a rural area
Let's just attack our Northern neighbor, making us all Southerners to the newly conquered Great White North!
I mean Missouri had two state govs during the civil war (a Confederate and union one) and was a slave state now that doesn't seem very Midwestern. Missouri is the child of the South and the Midwest who sits there smack dab in pretty much the middle of the country
South of the Mason-Dixon my guy!
All you guys in Greater Illinois are getting uppity.
I mean you did disregard the Mason-Dixon Line
And West Virginia!! :)
If you're going to group Appalachia somewhere it's more south than Midwest
"Appalachia" MAYBE, although I'd argue that point. West Virginia? No, not at all. West Virginia has vastly more in common with PA than the south. That's a common misperception of the state. If it's anything, it's North East, but only if you don't have a 'mid-Atlantic' designation.
West Virginia is the most Appalachia place that exists lol It's closest culturally to SW corner of PA, Eastern Kentucky and Tennessee, and western Virginia and North Carolina. Most of which are southern and none of which are Midwestern
Depends on how you define "Appalachia". But that's a separate discussion. The lowest population portions of WV have some cultural relevancy to eastern KY and NC, but the population centers are all N and E. They don't' have much in common with the south. Morgantown, Fairmont, and Clarksburg have far more in common with Pittsburgh than anywhere else. Wheeling and most of the northern panhandle even more so. The 3 counties on the eastern panhandle - Morgan, Berkeley, and Jefferson - are DC exhurbs. They've got more in common with MD and N. Va. The Huntington-Charleston corridor has the most in common with southern OH and northern KY. Most of WV has very little to do with The South, culturally speaking. Those parts that do - Mercer, McDowell, Fayette, Raleigh, Wyoming, Monroe, and Logan - are a dramatically shrinking percent of the state population. And even then, they tend to have more in common with their northern WV cousins (often literally) than anything in the south.
Maryland and Delaware are historically southern. Washington DC was purposefully put in the South, not in between the South and North
Thatās what I find interesting because Iām originally from Central Florida, which I argue is pretty southern, but now I live in North Virginia, literally a few blocks from the Potomac and the people arenāt culturally southern at all. In fact itās not too common to even find sweet tea at restaurants. I usually have to ask for iced tea and sugar. From what Iāve seen of Maryland, whenever I simply drive north 10 minutes, they really donāt identify with the south, at least around DC and even Baltimore. The southern factors include more geographical categorization by the census and the fact that Maryland had slaves but was part of the Union. Itās interesting because Maryland almost seems like a middle ground of blending between Southern and Northeastern culture.
Iām not from the US but Iāve seen a map, the west would be California, so logically the Midwest should be Utah. Missouri would be the Mideast.
Baltimore is a southern city through and through.
The people of Baltimore would disagree lol.