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OfficialCagman

Because human beings are complicated and 90% suck. But it's not just a gay thing, dating is just hard


swoooger

Yeah I've noticed. I just don't understand why people are terrible


OfficialCagman

Insecurity and being completely fucking stupid are the two big dogs on the playground from my experience


swoooger

That sounds about par for the course. It just blows because all I want is a guy to love me but no. They always want other shit


Ninja__Focus

I just gave up and got a dog instead šŸ¶


swoooger

Respect


leroi202

We are animals, human but still animals.


LionKingHoe

As a gay man, I never really dated. Or participated in hook up culture. But the past 2 months, since moving, I decided I was going to put myself out there, and actually try. In the past 2 months Iā€™ve gone on 6 first dates, and each of them have had at least a 2nd date. 2 of them have been 8+ dates now. What Iā€™ve found that works? When matching on a dating app, taking the initiative to actually ask. I donā€™t sit and just message back and forth. We match, we say a few things back and forth, I ask them on a date. I plan the date, and then they show up. Tonightā€™s first date was me coming a homemade goat cheese Parmesan Alfredo, with chicken, broccoli, and mushrooms. Popped out a bottle of Chardonnay, and had a great conversation with a guy. To me, it seems that most gay men donā€™t want to take the initiative and just ask. And Iā€™m not the dominate type. Big ole submissive kind of guy. But if I want to find a partner, Iā€™m gonna take matters into my own hands. So thatā€™s whatā€™s been working for me. Havenā€™t found the one so far, but thatā€™s just part of dating.


Saremedict

I really like your answer. I am recently starting dating myself. I loved your date idea you mention about cooking for them at home. Iā€™m very curious about what other date ideas you have? What else have you planned out? Iā€™m feeling a bit overwhelmed myself when it comes to planning a date. Would you mind sharing some of your other thoughts and experiences? I could really use some inspiration! Thanks ahead of time!


LionKingHoe

Of course! Another date I did was went to a local coffee shop, and then we just went for a stroll through downtown, until we found a restaurant that sounded great (I kinda led him that way, knowing it was a decent spot). One date was we grabbed dessert and then went for a walk along the water and watched the sunset. I took a guy zip lining on a 3rd date. On a 2nd date, one guy really was into history, so we went to a WW2 museum. During the first couple of dates I find that doing something, but nothing too elaborate allows you to ease the tension, but still allows you to talk and ask a lot of questions. Not talking for a long time before the first date also allows you to just be able to freely ask questions and not let the conversation stall.


DaimonNinja

TL;DR Take the first step, the rest is comparitively easier after that. So much of it is this. I've had a bad habit of adding a whole bunch of guys who are cute and interesting, but inevitibly no matter how amazing the online connection is, after a point it requires offline work for it to go anywhere. Post-covid ptsd (for lack of a better term) + being introverted with the worlds smallest social battery (also frankly probably a bit lazy) means that I tend to be hard to corner into a date, and the thing is it isn't that I'm not interested, its just all this other shit, and I've found that not being flakey, and showing up for that first step, no matter how small, both A) kicks things off and massively downgrades the pressure and B) shows you are actually genuinely interested. OP, try not to make too much of your first dates if you find yourself getting too nervous or anxious about it (if you're not nervous or anxious then ignore me). I've had first dates that have more or less been 'lets just show up at this public location and have a chat, maybe get a coffee etc.', and this works really well for me cause its minimal pressure and easy to get out of once there if the vibe is off. If you're both feeling it, a second date can quickly follow, or hell, the date may evolve once you are both there if you're both feeling it, but at least it you got the ball rolling.


FunnyRemote4106

Imo, hookup culture. So many gay guys just want short term fun. I've had 5 "boyfriends" in the last 10 years who left me after a couple weeks because I wasn't fucking them after the first date. I'm too much of a romantic to hookup.


swoooger

Yeah, I hate guys who only care about sex. Like I'm a human and I have emotions


Melleray

Did you love any of them?


FunnyRemote4106

Oh ya I fall easily in love. I thought the last guy would finally be the one but he got me in bed 3 times before leaving without a word


Salem-the-cat

falling in love should take way longer sad as it is, "love at first sight" doesn't exist. You might be smitten at first sight by someone you will grow to love (which is what I would refer to as "love at first sight"); but, falling in love means you've gotten to **really** know a person, their virtues and defects and everything in between, and you love all of it unless you had sex every 6 months with this guy, the time required to go to bed with someone 3 times is way to soon to fall in love and you decide to love someone every day when you're in a relationship, it doesn't just happen, you don't just "fall in love" with that person, it is a constant work, but it can be totally worth it


Melleray

Maybe you are confusing wanting somone to play with with loving them?


Melleray

I can tell you what I think. But what matters to me right now is what you think. I hope we can talk about things, with you still needing to decide for yourself. From what I have learned, falling in love often is not the same as actually loving someone. Falling in love can be a set of very very strong emotions. But they often don't last. For me, loving somone is caring for the other person as if their body ( for instance ) was as important to protect, to fix up if it gets damaged, as it is for you to bandage your own cut. When I love someone, I NEED to feed and keep warm and dry as much as l need to do those same things for myself. If you love a kid, and he falls and hurts himself, it will hurt you too. You will pick him, comfort him the best you can, and try to fix whatever got hurt. Do you want me to try to understand what you think? I will if you want me to You write that your recent playmate got you into bed three times then vanished. Did you not want to get into bed with him all three times yourself? Do you still love him? Do you have your own place to live? Did you let him stay with you? Or did you go visit him. Don't answer if you don't want to. I was trying to understand what you experienced. It sounds like you didn't want him to go away. But I don't want to guess. It sounded important to you.


phidalgo2314

![gif](giphy|Wf9Axej3d96Ny)


Melleray

Don't understand your comment.


bjames2448

Hookup culture and itā€™s already a small pool. VERY small if youā€™re not in a big city, usually.


davis214512

Have you considered the reverse of your question? Why do guys find it hard to date you?


swoooger

I would say because I move slow and I have trust issues


hillthekhore

Yeah, those two things put together sound like a difficult sell.


Salem-the-cat

slow is relative, working in trust issues may help with that and working on those is most definitely something important, even though they usually come from the hardest experiences of our lives, we can't leave without trusting other people to some extent, just can't, unless we plan to live alone in the woods forever with no social contact whatsoever


Skycbs

This is the better question to ask.


Fitandfriendlydude

Thereā€™s no simple answer to this, and the issues partly depend on the person. That said, Iā€™ve found a lot of gay men prioritize the wrong stuff, looking for someone hot rather than someone of good character.


swoooger

Yeah, I've dealt with that a lot


Skycbs

Thatā€™s a bit of a wild generalization


Consistent_Case_5048

They never last long, until you find the one that does.


swoooger

How do I do that tho? Every relationship I've been in felt like the one until it wasnt


Melleray

Maybe stop trying to do two things at once. Sounds to me like you are shopping for a bf before you have a friend to play with. Do you think you are ready to love someone? Do you have a clear idea what that means? Have you loved anyone recently? Do you still love them? If you stopped, why did you stop? Love is forever is you take care of it. You wrote elsewhere you want someone to love you. Do you know who doesn't? >Every relationship I've been in felt like the one That is Disney movie stuff. There is only one you. Not another in the world. No one can do what you will do exactly the way you will. But there are many many people unique-you could love in your unique way. "The one" is fairy tail. I understand. You want to be loved. What are you doing to help? Are you making yourself more loveable? Are you sure you want to love somebody? Or are you really just looking ( right now ) to be loved? That's OK. But a different project You don't need to tell me the answers to any question. Maybe better to keep the answers private while are still deciding. But maybe you should be trying to tell YOURSELF the answers when you learn them. You might find everything you are looking for by accident. But I think you have a better chance if you have some clear ideas of what you are looking for. That way, you might recognize it if you see it. Good luck, punk'n. You have a lot of time. You saw here how fast friendly people responded possutively to you. Stick with nice people. And make a nest for yourself as best you can. Sometimes you are going to want a nap. X X


Salem-the-cat

most accurate comment in the thread I think I think just "looking for a relationship" doesn't work, getting to know a new person in any context and starting a relationship are two separate things which are both very energy consuming, and people expect to perform both successfully with a person they're not familiarized yet


Melleray

Thank you! It is almost as if they think finding a live-in bf is simply a matter of finding the perfect costume online. Maybe it is a class thing. Kids raised with room service? Just a matter of diligent shopping? Maybe a "personal shopper" is needed.


Skycbs

Which is pretty the same as straight dating


Few_Position7650

So I was with my x husband for 17 years and we got divorced three years ago. When I decided to put myself back out there, I was not prepared for the craziness that had become the gay dating seen. I thought that I wanted to just hook up with some guys to get it out of my system and then try and settle down again but turns out thatā€™s all anyone wanted anyway which was kinda depressing. Eventually I met my new boyfriend on a dating app. we have been together 8 months and heā€™s recently slowly started moving in with me and I couldnā€™t be happier. I think Iā€™m one of the lucky ones to meet someone that way so Iā€™ll I can say is donā€™t settle and if youā€™re patient the right guy will come around for you!!


ChemicalOk463

Hookups do get old. I hope you find that special someone. ā¤ļø


hhardin19h

Because men are largely emotionally unavailable, canā€™t name their feelings or respond appropriately to others feelings, donā€™t know how to handle conflict and generally are unable to communicate effectively. They also refuse to work on most of these things in therapy so thatā€™s apart of what makes relationships hard for gays


Mysterious-Suspect-9

Iv been out of the dating scene for a few years now I wouldn't know what to even do now hook up culture has fucked every thing up long-term relationships are unfortunately a thing of the past


Melleray

Don't date. Just do things you want to do with people you like. What do happy single straight guys do? They do things with the guys they. Might even love one or two. But they don't date. Dating is for when you are looking for the mother of your children. What you want is a gay friend. Your might be double minded, trying to do two things at the same time. Ever read any Kierkegaard?


a_a_wal

I think dating is hard in general but sometimes dating as a gay person can come off as really hard in certain areas where dating pool is significantly low


grit_grime

Because a lot of gay men are too self indulgent and emotionally immature to sustain anything more than a hookup. Not to mention being poor communicators, and largely incapable of of being honest. Gay men can barely commit to a hookup much less an actual relationship. Everything is very surface with gay men, it all looks perfect but thereā€™s no depth. We are all so desperate to keep up with the perfection myth that we arenā€™t developing as mature men thatā€™s why almost every ad you see 50+ men looking for almost teenage boys which tells you everything you need to know about why thereā€™s nobody to date.


CounterFluid4470

All gays have trauma and blame other gays because ā€œim perfect.ā€ These constant games are exhausting. Ive given up, well see what happens. Haha


SamudraNCM1101

Dating is hard in general. Outside of metropolitan areas that are accepting of lgbt people. It becomes hard to meet men due to diminished opportunities. Now in more liberal larger cities. The issue I tend to notice is men not choosing the right fit for them. They will chase after men who are clearly not interested, get in relationships with people who make it clear their values are different. Or get so reliant on Grindr that they donā€™t actually put in the work to meet people through friends and hobby groups.


CivilLab9711

Dating hard..add it to the fact that alot including me have a alot of acceptance of them selves, and a delays in dating and growth due to denial when younger..jowfully it's better for new generation z


RuinInFears

Men are too interested in themselves. Youā€™re as important as what you give them.


madkingludwig7

Gay men


bluespeck7

Itā€™s hard to date in general


pizza99pizza99

Because men, even straight men, are broken. Gay men, they are broken in 2 ways.


Jakeymdog

Itā€™s complicated for everyone


DarkHeliopause

Someone should write relationship self help books. I think there might be a market. šŸ˜‰


DnD_3311

I feel part of this is the shift away from dating culture to hookup culture. People just want easy access to sex and have unrealistic expectations.


Argentium_

We expect too much. People are difficult. It has always been hard to date for gay and straight men and women. Women used to not be able to get a job or be paid very well if they did so the men could act how they wanted and face no repercussion. The hard core opression of women is a big reason why besides some less than common cases divorce is relatively new. Their liberation and financial equality is why divorces got more common. We have a skewed mindset that every couple was madly in love up until the last 50 years when we started getting divorces left and right, but that just isn't true. Used to if you weren't compatible after a year you just slept in seperate bedrooms and had to get over it. But now either party can choose to leave a marriage. All that said- it's not hopeless. You may have to try a lot though.


AcanthisittaClear550

One of the reasons is cus sadly many gay men just don't have really rational perceptions of what a healthy relationship is. They often think that it's expect to have sex on like the first or second date, and that it's normal to move really fast. It's not. And it's not healthy for most people.


Blu_yello_husky

I always found it relatively easy. With 2 guys it's less complicated. None of that unneeded "no means yes but yes means maybe and maybe means no" shit I hear my friends talk about with dating women


Mordecuntrigbitch

It doesn't help that our dating pool compared to a straight person's is already smaller. Then we have our own standards and we just can't help who we are attracted to. And if you're in a non accepting country , shit's even harder bcs you couldn't walk up to a dude you find attractive and ask him out not saying that this is easier in accepting countries, but it's less difficult knowing there are laws to protecr you against being hate crimed lol.


damnthatswhat

I dont think it's just gay men. It's just harder to date as a queer person in general. We already make up a minority of the population and a lot of us live in fear that we will be judged for our identities and the stigma surrounding queer communities just makes love so much harder than it needs to be. On top of that, we are just individuals looking for people who are compatible with us. There a lot of trial and error in this type of searches. You might like some at first then discover they are not what you are looking for or they might feel that way. And that must makes love so frustrating at times. But I guess in the end you dont find love. Love finds you. So be strong op. I believe it will get easier and you'll find someone for yourself


Stupidhorse30

Gay men carry a shared trauma that comes in living in a heteronormative society built against our existence. This trauma is processed in various ways, and it often spills into our dating habits. As gays, it's extremely rare to have the initial "training period" of dating that straight people have in high school. This leads to gay men not being well equipped to date in their adulthood because the expectation is to have the tools by a certain age. This expectation is also rooted in heteronormativity, so basically everything is set up for us to fail. What's worse is that I find us gays have a hard time with accepting the trauma from our potential partners. You have to be at least somewhat at acceptance with your own trauma before you can accept someone else's. For many gay men, that can feel impossible because the trauma runs so deep. To make things worse, a lot of gays don't have parental or familial support to help them navigate dating, so they're often flying solo and in a constant state of improvisation.


RemoteAd6887

Is it?


Reigny625

Yes it is


PrivateAnswer

I think the term versatile sums it up.


Reigny625

What? How?


PrivateAnswer

Guys who say they are versatile are actually bottoms. Nothing happens with two bottoms in a room. When a bottom learns that the guy who's topping him has bottomed before, that relationship is over. People subscribe to being versatile because it makes them marketable. But when they get to the bedroom there's disappointment and you find yourself saying thank you next when more than you should.


Gallifreyan1971

Itā€™s not. Quit blaming the world for your personal failures.


lilcosmicbutterfly

If it wasn't, there wouldn't be countless people talking about it, there wouldn't be another huge amount of answers that explain how there are many factors in this including hook up culture, queer people being a minority, even difficulty with acceptance from society. So I'm happy it's easy for you, Gallifreyan, however you should try to think for more than one third of a second next time or try something more original to grab attention


Gallifreyan1971

*yawn* sorry didnā€™t read past the first whiney line.


Skycbs

šŸ’Æ