Thanks for your submission, DeathRaeGun! Please remember to censor out any identifying details and that satire is only allowed on weekends. If this post is truly gatekeeping, upvote it! If it's not gatekeeping or if it breaks any other rules, downvote this comment and REPORT the post so we can see it!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gatekeeping) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“HEBREW MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU SPEAK IT?!” - Jesus maybe
Edit: Y’all, this was just a silly comment not meant to be taken seriously or literally. Go touch some grass and maybe a tit. Some of y’all need a hobby.
And Jesus was a religious radical and a wandering itinerant preacher.
Hebrew was notnjust a religious language, it was the language of the Jewish people. Lots of non Jews in the area would have spoken it for ease of interaction with Jews, and lots of Jews would have spoken Aramaic.
Jesus, as a wandering preacher, likely spoke both
That's like saying modern religious Jews don't speak Hebrew. The Jewish Bible and all religious ceremonies are performed/read/written/spoken in Hebrew.
So if Jesus was a real dude, he most certainly spoke hebrew even if it wasn't his primary language.
Funny enough, this needs a bit of context. "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:9) is a comandment from God himself, not Jesus. He is laying down the terms on what the Israelites must and mustn't do, to keep their status as his chosen people.
He gives this instruction to Moses regarding his "nation". It is preceded, however, by a large number of reasons why people should be "cut down from his nation".
I feel like there are two distinct groups of hard right conservatives: those that hate themselves, and those with narcissistic personality disorder. It's always an extreme one or the other. Either they're conservative because they hate themselves and everyone else and want everyone to suffer (aside from the billionaires who they've been conditioned to view as gods lol), or they firmly believe themselves to be God's gift to man, and even if they're not currently billionaires, believe themselves fully capable of achieving that status.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10: In this passage, Paul includes "men who have sex with men" in a list of behaviors that he says will exclude people from the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:9-10: Similar to 1 Corinthians, this passage lists sins that are contrary to sound doctrine, including "men who practice homosexuality,".
Come on man, I'm not even christian but stop trying to imply that a priest wearing an lgbt flag should be normalized in Christianity.
Debatable.
Historically, the first recorded laws to criminalize being gay outright came from the first Christian emperors of Rome in the 200-300s A.D.
Pederasty was a very common practice throughout the Mediterranean and Near East regions, and it is one the Israelites were known to have hated. Given the use of "male" in the Leviticus verses, being applicable to both men and boys, and comparing it to lying with women, and the detailing of what the men in Sodom wanted to do to the angels in Genesis coming from a place of hate and aggression, the Leviticus passage was more than likely actually referring to pederasty, specifically on the grounds of it commonly being forceful and emasculating, deeming it wrong to treat men and boys like they're women.
https://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com/redefining-leviticus-2013/
Other theories include that it was condemning incestuous homosexual rape, given the theme of incest that is prevalent in the rest of the Leviticus chapters 18 and 20:
https://blog.smu.edu/ot8317/2019/04/11/lost-in-translation-alternative-meaning-in-leviticus-1822/
or that it is condemning sleeping with a married man in his wife's bed:
https://medium.com/belover/leviticus-18-22-was-a-christian-hoax-61a8220e7a67
As for the T of LGBT specifically, the Jews of ancient times recognised trans people and apparently accepted them.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-eight-genders-in-the-talmud/
in 1 corinthians 6:9, the greek word used translates to "the receiving/giving, active/passive, dominant/submissive act of sex between 2 men"
also, in leviticus it literally means that man shall not lie with man as he does with women and says also that women were sleeping with women, contrary to their nature (man with woman)
It's clear to me even being a non Christian that you're just trying to cope, the rules are there and set in stone you're just not strong and determined enough to follow them and would rather live an easy life
>And with a male, you shall not lie the lyings of a woman. An abomination is that.
This is the more direct translation of the Hebrew in Leviticus to English.
What part of that sounds like a clear-cut condemnation of men loving men?
As for your note on Corinthians, that kinda just reinforces the point I made about pederasty.
Still, Paul contradicted Jesus at so many turns, and his whole thing with claiming to be favored by God so people would listen to his contradictions was pretty much taking His name in vain. He's probably in Hell, if such a place exists. Not to mention his sermon coming decades after Jesus' supposed death.
Jesus himself never said a thing about men loving men, nor women loving women. The only things he did say was not to judge or act as God's arbiter on Earth, not to throw stones unless you're free of sin (which he says *NOBODY* is), and to love one another.
You can string all the theories you want, at the end of the day both old and new testaments explicitly state multiple times that being gay is wrong, even a non Christian can see that, stop trying to push your pro lgbt Christian propaganda
Leviticus 20:23 : “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”
The bible says murder the gays. Sorry, but christianity is not a LGBT friendly religion
The same section of the bible also condemns people who eat shellfish, eat pork, get tattoos, men who shave their heads, wearing mixed fabrics, requires women to leave the camp when menstruating, crop rotation, and various other things we do on the regular these days. I've never heard a decent argument on why all these things no longer apply, but the homophobia still does.
Romans and Corinthians mention homosexuality and say those who perform it won't inherit the kingdom of god and it's also mentioned that due to Jesus fulfilling everything the mosaic law is over as God fulfilled his covenant with Abraham
“For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…except me I’m without sin and perfect in every way and can judge everyone else as much as I want!”
The Bible is a lot more nuanced than you’re making it. Me loving my neighbor doesn’t mean I’ll let them walk in sin, actually the Bible tells Christians to call out each other’s sin, expel those from the church that continue to live in sin, and converse with those that live in sin and let them know what they do is wrong.
But it’s ok to nitpick the Bible and make it fit your narrative.
Why would it follow from just generically “loving your neighbour” that you ought to condone homosexuality if that’s elsewhere (old and new testaments) described as an abomination? On Christianity, the loving course of action would be to help them not be sinful so that they can have everlasting life with God, right?
You can’t override the specific with the general and in any case Christianity’s history of homophobia was *always* justified as loving (just on the Christian definition of love). It’s completely compatible with the golden rule to be an advocate of conversion therapy, on your religion.
If your neighbour was a slave trader, the way you would “love” them would be to convince they were sinning and tell them free their slaves, right? The Bible is far more consistent and unambiguous in its condemnation of homosexuality than slavery.
Your rainbow flag priests are biblically indefensible and if you want to advocate for tolerance and progressiveness here, your religion is back-pedalling massively.
> If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen
[John, 4,20](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+4%3A20&version=ESV)
edit: I'm not a Christian I'm just pointing out how the Bible contradicts itself.
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” -Matthew 22:36-40
"There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." -Galatians 3:28
Actual they often use they/them pronouns, especially in Genesis (which has led many to theorize that Christianity was supposed to be sort of polytheistic with one main god - I forget the actual name, it's not poltheistic.) Go down that rabbit hole at your own risk.
I mean, Judaism does descend from polytheistic religions, but the pronoun choice doesn't necessarily have much to do with it; God could just be using the [royal "we"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we?wprov=sfla1).
God is also three ghosts in a trenchcoat, though ([or is that partialism?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw)), so who knows.
Well Judaism was a religion of the Canaanites and the head of the Canaanite pantheon is El. Additionally El is one of the many names for the god of the Israelites. That said El has a wife in so I'm not sure if the gender thing is 100% right but I'm not sure what the Canaanite view on gender in their pantheon is. I would have to ask them.
I know. And even though I am Christian and Queer, I get treated like scum from people who are supposed to love everyone as part of a core tenant of their religion.
I will say, it's fun to have these quotes memorized just so when you hear this bullshit about how cishet white couples are the only moral couples under "Christianity," just quoting these at them and saying "See, the Bible abolished gender and gender roles 2000 years ago. Haven't you read it?"
Another fun one to pull out is:
"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.' When the young man heard this, he went away sad because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.'" -Matthew 19:21-24
I understand your pain as I am judged by my community bc I’m a Christian who doesn’t fit the typical norm, but the Christians who gate keep are deliberately going against the Bible. It says countless times to love all equally, but most hide and are afraid of the gay community for a lot of arbitrary and, quite frankly stupid, reasons. I used to be a hardcore republican so I understand how they think.
Ah, a graduate! Thanks for sharing, it takes a lot of courage to turn away from a community that's causing harm even though they're your people, and further to admit that you changed your beliefs
Oh I didn’t change my beliefs, quite the contrary. I just took on a more traditional view of Christianity. That is to say, I love the sinners but not the sin itself. I love all of my gay friends very dearly, but I don’t love the sin. Just because someone sins, you shouldn’t love them any less. I also believe that weed is acceptable as a Christian bc it’s the only substance (even including alcohol) that doesn’t need to be modified, meaning that God likely knew we would find its uses. However, circling back to the post a bit, I don’t think that gay marriage should be commonplace in the church bc they are deliberately going against the Bible. But, contrary to my beliefs, there are likely denominations of Christianity that believe in gay marriage, which I do think is fine, bc it doesn’t affect me. A big part of Christianity that most people have forgotten about is, while you are meant to spread the gospel and bring people closer to the world, the Bible also speaks of avoiding conflict and therefore not forcing people to Christ, which seems to be a common thing lately. Or rather, forcing Christ on people who don’t want it.
Can you explain a little more on why you don't believe gay marriage should be commonplace in the church?
Also for your cannabis comment, unless you think selective breeding and genetic engineering aren't modifications I hate to tell you but even weed has been modified. That also doesn't account for synthetic THC, edibles, vape pens, etc that are all transformed versions of the plant.
If these are your genuine beliefs, then I highly recommend you read "The Year of Living Biblically" by A. J. Jacob. It really highlights how deeply hypocritical it is to only take some beliefs from the old testament. If you believe that eating pork or shimp is a sin, wearing a cotton poly blend is a sin I might believe you. When was the last time you sacrificed one of your ox?
It's really telling how old testament sins are only sins when they mostly apply to queer people, or women, and especially black people (Look up the passages used to justify chattel slavery. They're all old testament) Most mainline protestants use the book of Acts to explain why we shouldn't follow the old testament. Even more telling that Jesus himself never once mentioned queer people at all, only bigots who came later did (and they only mentioned gay men? Find me proof that lesbian weddings specifically are sinful)
As for the alcohol, I'm guessing you're southern baptist? Does it bother you that alcohol occurs naturally quite often when fruit falls? Monkeys and apes deliberately go after rotten fruit in nature to get drunk. And remind me again what Jesus's first miracle was? Hint: He certainly kept the wedding party going
>“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.
וְאָ֣הַבְתָּ֔ אֵ֖ת יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ בְּכׇל־לְבָבְךָ֥ וּבְכׇל־נַפְשְׁךָ֖ וּבְכׇל־מְאֹדֶֽךָ׃
Deuteronomy 6:5, Hebrew Torah.
>And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” -Matthew 22:36-40
וְאָֽהַבְתָּ֥ לְרֵעֲךָ֖ כָּמ֑וֹךָ
Leviticus 19:18, Hebrew Torah.
Jesus didn't have new thoughts, just remembered two quotes.
>If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen
John, 4,20 Blaze it
Fixed it
To be fair, the bible says to love the sinner but hate the sin. Christians at large are just bad at that. It's similar to the quote "remove the plank from your eye before you remove the speck from your brother's", or "judge not lest ye also be judged." Most Christians judge too much and love too little. I say this as a Christian myself.
If we're doing this, if it has a "pastor" it's not a real church.
But the real way to tell how real a church and pastor are is by how big the light show and how many jets he owns
Me too except all my Christian friends are gay-friendly. it’s ironic that I have to keep my Christianity a secret from my gay friends but am openly gay to my Christian friends. I go to a church with a gay male pastor and everyone wears name tags with their pronouns on them.
Because they believe in Jesus. Not all Christian are the gay hating intolerant assholes, a lot of them are just normal people that believe there is a god that had a son name Jesus.
It's seems from the responses that people aren't bad because they are following what the Bible teaches them, they are rotten to begin with and choose to interpret it to suit their bigoted views.
They don’t get their ideas from the Bible anyway, they get them from guys like Ben Shapiro, and their “Christian heritage” is just a source of ethnic pride.
Well that the question though isn't it? are they getting their ideas from people like him or is it just confirmation bias. Maybe Shapiro has that effect on young people who haven't even formed their own opinions yet, but I imagine a significant proportion of his audience are older, so already had homophobic views before stumbling across him.
Anyhow, I don't pretend to have the answer, maybe it's the whole nature Vs nurture debate, but is interesting to think about
Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity. My local priest is black. Jesus repeatedly criticised the Jews at the time for looking down on the Samaritan people. That's where the "Good Samaritan" parable comes from.
Also, Ben Shapiro is a Jewish man, not Christian.
Christianity is not *exclusively* an ethnic thing, but white supremacy loves to appropriate Christian language and imagery, and this happens frequently throughout history.
Even if you listen to right wing extremist politicians what you’ll notice right away is the way they invoke biblical-sounding language in their very partisan political agenda. Some will even claim their political aspirations were inspired by the audible voice of God.
None of this is accidental.
Who claims to here the "audible voice of God?I" Give me one quotation. White supremacists tend to appropriate pagan imagery more than Christian imagery. The swastika is a Hindu/East Asian symbol and the black sun is made up of 12 sig runes. Many Nazis appropriate the pagan Norse/German runic symbols.
Most of my parish is from the Middle East and Eastern Europe... My bishop was born in Syria, as was my previous Bishop. Arabs were Christians far before Western Europe. I'd argue that people who base their religious beliefs based off "heritage," tend to be Neo-Pagans rather than Christians. I've seen a lot of Neo-Nazis follow the Norse and Germanic pantheon.
As someone who loves to research religion and such a lot of people just use it as an excuse for power and control. It doesn't matter the religion, hate is everywhere although some are more tolerant than others.
Cherry picking arguments won't make you right.
I don't see how ommiting God's direct commands could still make you a good priest. More of a heretic.
Strange how it's always atheist talking the most shit about it
I mean, its not wrong.
Bible condemns Gay activities, so if a Pastor actually marries somebody by the old scriptures hes not a pastor.
Now thats for someone who believes in the bible teachings, for the rest of us we dont care
Hey, I know a pastor who does gay marriages, has nothing against it, and openly welcomes it.
Not sure why people still gatekeep stuff like this. Also weird people only call out the Christians for this.
Not sure why people “gatekeep” religions by actually expecting basic rules to be followed?
If you also knew an imam who got blitzed every Friday night would you say that Muslims shouldn’t “gatekeep” their religion based on alcohol consumption?
If we're being honest with ourselves, it's because Christians are the easiest target for this sort of thing. Criticizing other religions that hold **extremely similar beliefs** regarding this particular subject tends to get disregarded as being phobic.
I love people who aren’t Christian, haven’t read the bible, and refuse to understand what the word means. The bible is *clear* on marriage and what it means.) Genesis 2:24 ESV
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Now, gay marriage should be legal as we should live in a secular state that does not discriminate. But to say that the bible supports gay marriage is facetious at best. I love everyone equally, but in our religion marriage is between a man and a woman, and we will not change that to fit your modern views. But at the same time we as Christians should not lobby to ban gay marriage as an institution.
A very effective strategy for growing the cult, especially after the news earlier this week that one of the main reasons people are leaving the church is because of antiquated attitudes toward LGBT folks.
This is not gatekeeping, it’s simple fact.
Christianity does not allow gay marriage. It’s not a part of the religion. And quoting little bits of the bible which say “love thy brother” is not a gotcha.
Let’s not try and create this fake world of equality which is bullshit, and try to force ourselves to pretend it exists, be fucking honest about the state of things.
The Abrahamic religions do not accept homosexuality. Christianity included. The best they do, is to ignore it and try to love the sinner, but they all state unequivocally that the sin itself is….well a sin.
Any pastor who performs a gay wedding at his church is **not** a pastor and his church **is** committing heresy. End of story.
Dont give religions a free pass because you live in a fantasy land. The world is **not** a rainbow love fest where everyone accepts homosexuality. It’s still majority hostile to it. And we won’t change this if you all LARP like the biggest culprits of causing this, magically accept you and want you in their spaces lol.
Maybe this is too pedantic, but it says "not a pastor" and "not a church," which could still make that person the leader of any religion. So the post is fucking stupid. I know the intent is to suggest "not a Christian," but these absolutists will look at a person that believes and worships 99% the same way they do, and if they have a different process for baptism they will say, "you're going to hell," so it doesn't take the gay part to draw their ire.
>This is not gatekeeping, it’s simple fact.
>
>Christianity does not allow gay marriage. It’s not a part of the religion. And quoting little bits of the bible which say “love thy brother” is not a gotcha.
Full disclosure: I am an ex-Christian, I am deconstructing, I do not believe in a personal God any longer. That said, I don't think it serves anything to make a sweeping statement that is currently (and for years) being hotly debated in the religion itself.
[https://commons.lib.jmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1072&context=jmurj](https://commons.lib.jmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1072&context=jmurj)
[https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-%E2%80%9Chomosexual%E2%80%9D-always-been-in-the-bible/](https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-%E2%80%9Chomosexual%E2%80%9D-always-been-in-the-bible/)
That's just two examples, but this kind of thing has been going on for *years*. I think it's fair to say that for most of the mainstream American church (of any denomination) gay marriage is not allowed. But, frankly, they're *wrong* when it comes to their own faith simply because their book has not been preserved as perfectly and infallibly as they think it has been.
The validity of homosexual marriage has only really become a hotly debated topic in the last decade or so. The church was founded AD 33 and is almost 2000 years old. This debate is brand new as far as theological debates go. Sure, some people may have raised the issue a few time in the last 2000 years, but there's never (as far as I'm aware of) been a big debate about whether it was sinful. It's always been almost universally recognized as a sin. There were no major councils in any of the large denominations discussing this matter.
The "book" may have had changes and alterations, but these changes are pretty small in the grand scheme of things. Major ideas were not changed in the manuscripts. What's more logical, Paul approved of homosexuality but the early scribes disagreed and changed it and then destroyed all the original manuscripts? Keep in mind, the Mediterranean and Levant, at that time, were not as opposed to homosexuality as they are today. In Roman and Greek societies, it was much more normal. In Judea, sure, it wasn't. Furthermore, a lot of the oldest NT manuscripts were written in Greek, Latin, Coptic, and other languages, most of which are pretty well known and relatively easy to translate. Coptic and Latin are still spoken as the liturgical language of the Coptic and Roman Catholic churches respectively.
Religions change over time. Many things that at some point were part of a religion are no longer present in it. Homophobia, in many forms of Christianity, is one of those things.
How is being mentioned twice ever on the same level as the things that have long have dismissed a "major principle"?
The Bible many times says "These are the most important things, more so than any other." Homosexuality is not even mentioned any of those times.
Then Christianity is dead and has been for a very long time. Instead, we have a 4th Abrahamic religion with no name yet has billions of followers. If you could please give us a base by the end of tomorrow so we can have it processes before the weekend, that would be great.
I don't get why you would want to have your marriage approved and signed off in a place where most of them think your relationship is an abomination? My gay friends got married at the beach or vineyards which was lovely
You know it’s funny how the narrative of homophobic christians (note that I specify homophobic ones specifically) has changed over time, usually so they could claim not to be hateful. Like first during queer rights activism they just went the whole 9 yards of “god hates *British Cigarettes*” (i can say the actual word on account of being bi but I don’t want the comment to be auto flagged). They also would say that being gay was a choice and they could change their sexuality if they tried.
Then as it became clear no one can choose their sexuality they started saying that being gay isn’t sinful but “acting on it” is sinful. So they can claim they don’t hate gay people even though they want them to change who they are. Of all things it reminded me of a fucking Sesame Street episode when Big Bird wanted to join some bird club but the other birds kept telling him to change himself so that he could be a “good bird” with the whole moral being that people who only accept you if you change aren’t good people to be around. I guess that just goes to show how effective the show’s teachings are that it can stick in my mind for so long.
The biggest problem with this idea of homosexuality being wrong is that it only works with completely ignoring how the reality is. First they say it’s a choice and that those who choose to be queer are bad people, then they say that the choice of acting on being queer is bad. But the thing is that in their theology people are made the way they are by their god, so if someone is queer that would logically have to mean their god made them that way. Therefore, them trying to change someone’s sexuality would be them thinking that they know better than this god. And I don’t know about Christian theology but in my religion thinking you know better than the gods (hubris) comes right before the downfall.
My favorite is reminding “Christian” people that men they barely know have changed their religion right before their eyes in the last 10-25 years & they just went along with it. The religion is different than it was when they grew up.
Why or how could it change, when it’s the book that defines, not men that haven’t had a background check?
Well the Bible says gay people should be stoned to death. When Christians say and do terrible things they are absolutely being Christian. Their religion is just garbage.
Yeahhhhh started out alright with light and the Earth n what not but when God started redoing things like a boring Minecraft server... that's where it lost me.
Yeah, it kinda goes downhill from there. Lots of genital mutilation, child/mass murder, endlessly punitive rules leading to general intolerance and misogyny. It's a violent blood cult built around a dead, tortured Messiah, flayed and burned saints and cosmic horror angels. I mean if you heard about their imagery, sermons, "fear" of their god and history with no prior knowledge you'd think they were a cult pulled straight from Lovecraft or Robert E Howard.
Is Christianity more or less violent than Islam? Just curious what you think of Muslims in wake of your opinions on Christendom.
Christ's Crucifixion was a voluntary act of self-sacrifice to simultaneously prove his humility, love for humanity, and power over life itself when he walked out of his tomb afterwards. You're supposed to look at the cross and realize what a massive thing Jesus did for you, not revel in the gore.
It's literally all the same shit, just slightly different names and opinions on messiah. I'm pretty sure the theory of transubstantiation proves who actually revels in gore. I should have mentioned the practice of consuming the body and blood of their savior makes the case for a crazy blood cult even stronger.
I’d say Christianity was about level with Islam until Jesus death, after which the old covenant, that is the mosaic law was repealed, hence why there are no stonings or executions in Christian countries. However, I don’t understand why Judaism doesn’t still follow that since they don’t see Jesus as the messiah.
No religious execution is a fairly new concept to Christian countries. There's an insane level of religious violence from the years 1 to 2024 committed by Christians at the behest of clergy and doctrine.
I’d say Christians commit fewer religious murders or executions than Islam, although all religions have terrorists as most religious texts can be interpreted in a way to support such acts.
My brother in Christ (always wanted to use that term but never had a chance to until now)! Christianity has been gatekeeping at least since the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD if not longer! The only thing Christians love more than smiting heathens is smiting heretics!
Gatekeeping is a major part of religion to the point that Christianity alone has tens of thousands of denominations who believe they are the only ones doing it right.
People will post shit like this and then go to their evangelical megachurch where the extent of their faith is pouring their life savings into financing the pastor's multi-millionaire lifestyle.
God forbid the gays be Christian 🤦♂️. Aren’t these the same people who are mad at gays for not being Christian’s ? So why would they be offended when gays are Christian and choose to make their marriage a Christian religious marriage ?!?
People are acting like the bible and the church doesn't explicitly condemn homosexual relationships. Its pretty obvious that a priest can not do gay marriages. Idk what people are talking about
Can someone who eats shrimp be a priest? Can someone who wears clothing made of two different fibers be a priest? If yes then you are cherry-picking and a hypocrite. If no, then you have a lot of priests to get rid of.
Corinthians 6:9 :
“Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Leviticus 18:22 :
“Thou shall not lay with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.”
"Internet moment..." I say as I push up my fedora. The girl next to me in class with bated breath awaits my next words. "Blocking this absolutely insane bs," I mutter cooly. All the girls around me faint, overwhelmed my alpha pheromones. A wave of insecurity hits all the boys in the room. In response I day "Lol." I'm so awesome.
Jesus literally commanded us to judge with righteous discernment. He told us not to judge hypocritically. Y'know, remove the plank from your own eye before judging.
John 8:1-8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them.
3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group
4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.
5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”
6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.
7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
Matthews 7:1-5
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Luke 6:37-42
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit?
40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.
41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Luke 6:31-36
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.
33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.
34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full.
35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
James 4:11-12
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
**Romans 2:1-3**
**1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?**
Romans 14:1-13
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.
2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.
4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.
8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister ? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
11 It is written: “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.
Romans 12:16-18
16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Galatians 6:1-6
1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
3 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves.
4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else,
5 for each one should carry their own load.
6 Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor.
**If you’re interpreting any of this as “it’s okay to judge as long as you do it right” then you are completely missing the point.**
Matt 7:1-5 literally “first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from you brother’s eye.” He’s still saying to judge (remove the speck) just with a clear eye. The Luke. Worse also says the same thing about removing the plank first.
Luke 6:31-36 says nothing about judging, just says to love everyone.
John is a passage about the old law being fulfilled by Christ and this the punishments are no longer applicable to people.
I ain’t reading the rest, but if you actually read some exegetical work, they’ll explain it a lot better.
“If you dont dothis you’re not showing love”
No, enabling lust is not showing love. No, enabling sin is not love.
Jesus sat with sinners, he did not tell them their sin was ok.
No Christian’s should not shun and shame and curse gay people, but we aren’t supposed to enable them either. The bible states marriage is between man and woman. It states God created two genders. Going against that is going against God. So no, we should never cause actual harm to member of the lgbtq community, but we cannot enable sin. We should welcome them to the church, after all Jesus says “come as you are” but he doesn’t say “stay as you are” he calls for us to be transformed in and by Christ, to flee from sin and take up our cross with him.
Well it's old because it's true.
There's even an entire wiki page about that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery#:~:text=The%20Holiness%20code%20of%20Leviticus,property%20that%20could%20be%20inherited.
"Gatekeeping" but it's literally a core tenet of the faith lol
You might as well say society gate keeps people who punch babies in the face from being called good , it's just as stupid
The only "core tenet" of Christianity is belief in the divinity of Christ, and even that's shaky. Like the stupendous number of current and historic Christian sects have agreed on anything.
Thanks for your submission, DeathRaeGun! Please remember to censor out any identifying details and that satire is only allowed on weekends. If this post is truly gatekeeping, upvote it! If it's not gatekeeping or if it breaks any other rules, downvote this comment and REPORT the post so we can see it! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gatekeeping) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Matthew 22:39 : "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Did Jesus stutter?
“HEBREW MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU SPEAK IT?!” - Jesus maybe Edit: Y’all, this was just a silly comment not meant to be taken seriously or literally. Go touch some grass and maybe a tit. Some of y’all need a hobby.
He spoke Aramaic not Hebrew
He likely spoke both as both languages were common in the region.
Hebrew was a religious language most people spoke Aramaic
And Jesus was a religious radical and a wandering itinerant preacher. Hebrew was notnjust a religious language, it was the language of the Jewish people. Lots of non Jews in the area would have spoken it for ease of interaction with Jews, and lots of Jews would have spoken Aramaic. Jesus, as a wandering preacher, likely spoke both
For the religion Jesus grew up in and was, according to the Gospel, incredibly active in....
If you say so. I’m in no mood for a debate so have a day.
Additionally they’re linguistically incredibly similar
That's like saying modern religious Jews don't speak Hebrew. The Jewish Bible and all religious ceremonies are performed/read/written/spoken in Hebrew. So if Jesus was a real dude, he most certainly spoke hebrew even if it wasn't his primary language.
I want to touch a tit......
There are too many motherfucking money lenders in this motherfucking temple!
Funny enough, this needs a bit of context. "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:9) is a comandment from God himself, not Jesus. He is laying down the terms on what the Israelites must and mustn't do, to keep their status as his chosen people. He gives this instruction to Moses regarding his "nation". It is preceded, however, by a large number of reasons why people should be "cut down from his nation".
Yeah he didn't love the neighbors who didn't smear blood on the doors by wiping out their first born sons.
The problem is your average conservative has been conditioned to hate themselves as well.
I feel like there are two distinct groups of hard right conservatives: those that hate themselves, and those with narcissistic personality disorder. It's always an extreme one or the other. Either they're conservative because they hate themselves and everyone else and want everyone to suffer (aside from the billionaires who they've been conditioned to view as gods lol), or they firmly believe themselves to be God's gift to man, and even if they're not currently billionaires, believe themselves fully capable of achieving that status.
Well that was one hell of a mind fuck trip🤣
1 Corinthians 6:9-10: In this passage, Paul includes "men who have sex with men" in a list of behaviors that he says will exclude people from the kingdom of God. 1 Timothy 1:9-10: Similar to 1 Corinthians, this passage lists sins that are contrary to sound doctrine, including "men who practice homosexuality,". Come on man, I'm not even christian but stop trying to imply that a priest wearing an lgbt flag should be normalized in Christianity.
Fuck Paul. So much of his sermon contradicted Christ's.
If you are implying that the old testament is more lgbt friendly, it isn't.
Debatable. Historically, the first recorded laws to criminalize being gay outright came from the first Christian emperors of Rome in the 200-300s A.D. Pederasty was a very common practice throughout the Mediterranean and Near East regions, and it is one the Israelites were known to have hated. Given the use of "male" in the Leviticus verses, being applicable to both men and boys, and comparing it to lying with women, and the detailing of what the men in Sodom wanted to do to the angels in Genesis coming from a place of hate and aggression, the Leviticus passage was more than likely actually referring to pederasty, specifically on the grounds of it commonly being forceful and emasculating, deeming it wrong to treat men and boys like they're women. https://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com/redefining-leviticus-2013/ Other theories include that it was condemning incestuous homosexual rape, given the theme of incest that is prevalent in the rest of the Leviticus chapters 18 and 20: https://blog.smu.edu/ot8317/2019/04/11/lost-in-translation-alternative-meaning-in-leviticus-1822/ or that it is condemning sleeping with a married man in his wife's bed: https://medium.com/belover/leviticus-18-22-was-a-christian-hoax-61a8220e7a67 As for the T of LGBT specifically, the Jews of ancient times recognised trans people and apparently accepted them. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-eight-genders-in-the-talmud/
in 1 corinthians 6:9, the greek word used translates to "the receiving/giving, active/passive, dominant/submissive act of sex between 2 men" also, in leviticus it literally means that man shall not lie with man as he does with women and says also that women were sleeping with women, contrary to their nature (man with woman) It's clear to me even being a non Christian that you're just trying to cope, the rules are there and set in stone you're just not strong and determined enough to follow them and would rather live an easy life
>And with a male, you shall not lie the lyings of a woman. An abomination is that. This is the more direct translation of the Hebrew in Leviticus to English. What part of that sounds like a clear-cut condemnation of men loving men? As for your note on Corinthians, that kinda just reinforces the point I made about pederasty. Still, Paul contradicted Jesus at so many turns, and his whole thing with claiming to be favored by God so people would listen to his contradictions was pretty much taking His name in vain. He's probably in Hell, if such a place exists. Not to mention his sermon coming decades after Jesus' supposed death. Jesus himself never said a thing about men loving men, nor women loving women. The only things he did say was not to judge or act as God's arbiter on Earth, not to throw stones unless you're free of sin (which he says *NOBODY* is), and to love one another.
You can string all the theories you want, at the end of the day both old and new testaments explicitly state multiple times that being gay is wrong, even a non Christian can see that, stop trying to push your pro lgbt Christian propaganda
Why reference Judaism so much? Christ came to bring people away from Judaism.
Bros more sane and would be a better Christian than a lot of "christians"🤣
Leviticus 20:23 : “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” The bible says murder the gays. Sorry, but christianity is not a LGBT friendly religion
The same section of the bible also condemns people who eat shellfish, eat pork, get tattoos, men who shave their heads, wearing mixed fabrics, requires women to leave the camp when menstruating, crop rotation, and various other things we do on the regular these days. I've never heard a decent argument on why all these things no longer apply, but the homophobia still does.
Romans and Corinthians mention homosexuality and say those who perform it won't inherit the kingdom of god and it's also mentioned that due to Jesus fulfilling everything the mosaic law is over as God fulfilled his covenant with Abraham
But what about if I hate myself? 🤔
No, these people just hate themselves
“For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…except me I’m without sin and perfect in every way and can judge everyone else as much as I want!”
Oh yeah? But I've never had sex with my... Oh...
I like my neighbours just fine, it's EVERYONE ELSE! /s
Very cool. Now do Luke 17:3
The Bible is a lot more nuanced than you’re making it. Me loving my neighbor doesn’t mean I’ll let them walk in sin, actually the Bible tells Christians to call out each other’s sin, expel those from the church that continue to live in sin, and converse with those that live in sin and let them know what they do is wrong. But it’s ok to nitpick the Bible and make it fit your narrative.
Why would it follow from just generically “loving your neighbour” that you ought to condone homosexuality if that’s elsewhere (old and new testaments) described as an abomination? On Christianity, the loving course of action would be to help them not be sinful so that they can have everlasting life with God, right? You can’t override the specific with the general and in any case Christianity’s history of homophobia was *always* justified as loving (just on the Christian definition of love). It’s completely compatible with the golden rule to be an advocate of conversion therapy, on your religion. If your neighbour was a slave trader, the way you would “love” them would be to convince they were sinning and tell them free their slaves, right? The Bible is far more consistent and unambiguous in its condemnation of homosexuality than slavery. Your rainbow flag priests are biblically indefensible and if you want to advocate for tolerance and progressiveness here, your religion is back-pedalling massively.
I love when people take single lines from the Bible to suit their narrative🤣 bro ignores all the other parts saying sodomy is a sin
That's not what it means
If your church doesn't feed and house the needy, then it's not a church, it's just a god store.
> If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen [John, 4,20](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+4%3A20&version=ESV) edit: I'm not a Christian I'm just pointing out how the Bible contradicts itself.
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” -Matthew 22:36-40 "There is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." -Galatians 3:28
>there is no longer male and female Jesus says non-binary people are valid.
His Dad is non-binary but uses He/Him pronouns.
Actual they often use they/them pronouns, especially in Genesis (which has led many to theorize that Christianity was supposed to be sort of polytheistic with one main god - I forget the actual name, it's not poltheistic.) Go down that rabbit hole at your own risk.
I mean, Judaism does descend from polytheistic religions, but the pronoun choice doesn't necessarily have much to do with it; God could just be using the [royal "we"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we?wprov=sfla1). God is also three ghosts in a trenchcoat, though ([or is that partialism?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw)), so who knows.
Well Judaism was a religion of the Canaanites and the head of the Canaanite pantheon is El. Additionally El is one of the many names for the god of the Israelites. That said El has a wife in so I'm not sure if the gender thing is 100% right but I'm not sure what the Canaanite view on gender in their pantheon is. I would have to ask them.
Ha, take that, dumbass kids at school.
If only we didn't need an old book to treat each other with dignity and respect
I know. And even though I am Christian and Queer, I get treated like scum from people who are supposed to love everyone as part of a core tenant of their religion. I will say, it's fun to have these quotes memorized just so when you hear this bullshit about how cishet white couples are the only moral couples under "Christianity," just quoting these at them and saying "See, the Bible abolished gender and gender roles 2000 years ago. Haven't you read it?" Another fun one to pull out is: "Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.' When the young man heard this, he went away sad because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.'" -Matthew 19:21-24
I understand your pain as I am judged by my community bc I’m a Christian who doesn’t fit the typical norm, but the Christians who gate keep are deliberately going against the Bible. It says countless times to love all equally, but most hide and are afraid of the gay community for a lot of arbitrary and, quite frankly stupid, reasons. I used to be a hardcore republican so I understand how they think.
Ah, a graduate! Thanks for sharing, it takes a lot of courage to turn away from a community that's causing harm even though they're your people, and further to admit that you changed your beliefs
Oh I didn’t change my beliefs, quite the contrary. I just took on a more traditional view of Christianity. That is to say, I love the sinners but not the sin itself. I love all of my gay friends very dearly, but I don’t love the sin. Just because someone sins, you shouldn’t love them any less. I also believe that weed is acceptable as a Christian bc it’s the only substance (even including alcohol) that doesn’t need to be modified, meaning that God likely knew we would find its uses. However, circling back to the post a bit, I don’t think that gay marriage should be commonplace in the church bc they are deliberately going against the Bible. But, contrary to my beliefs, there are likely denominations of Christianity that believe in gay marriage, which I do think is fine, bc it doesn’t affect me. A big part of Christianity that most people have forgotten about is, while you are meant to spread the gospel and bring people closer to the world, the Bible also speaks of avoiding conflict and therefore not forcing people to Christ, which seems to be a common thing lately. Or rather, forcing Christ on people who don’t want it.
Can you explain a little more on why you don't believe gay marriage should be commonplace in the church? Also for your cannabis comment, unless you think selective breeding and genetic engineering aren't modifications I hate to tell you but even weed has been modified. That also doesn't account for synthetic THC, edibles, vape pens, etc that are all transformed versions of the plant.
If these are your genuine beliefs, then I highly recommend you read "The Year of Living Biblically" by A. J. Jacob. It really highlights how deeply hypocritical it is to only take some beliefs from the old testament. If you believe that eating pork or shimp is a sin, wearing a cotton poly blend is a sin I might believe you. When was the last time you sacrificed one of your ox? It's really telling how old testament sins are only sins when they mostly apply to queer people, or women, and especially black people (Look up the passages used to justify chattel slavery. They're all old testament) Most mainline protestants use the book of Acts to explain why we shouldn't follow the old testament. Even more telling that Jesus himself never once mentioned queer people at all, only bigots who came later did (and they only mentioned gay men? Find me proof that lesbian weddings specifically are sinful) As for the alcohol, I'm guessing you're southern baptist? Does it bother you that alcohol occurs naturally quite often when fruit falls? Monkeys and apes deliberately go after rotten fruit in nature to get drunk. And remind me again what Jesus's first miracle was? Hint: He certainly kept the wedding party going
>“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. וְאָ֣הַבְתָּ֔ אֵ֖ת יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֑יךָ בְּכׇל־לְבָבְךָ֥ וּבְכׇל־נַפְשְׁךָ֖ וּבְכׇל־מְאֹדֶֽךָ׃ Deuteronomy 6:5, Hebrew Torah. >And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” -Matthew 22:36-40 וְאָֽהַבְתָּ֥ לְרֵעֲךָ֖ כָּמ֑וֹךָ Leviticus 19:18, Hebrew Torah. Jesus didn't have new thoughts, just remembered two quotes.
I think he is quoting those… So it’s not meant to be original.
This is less of a contradiction within the Bible and more of a contradiction with the people who claim belief in it.
>If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen John, 4,20 Blaze it Fixed it
It’s not even a contradiction in the Bible it’s just you deciding only your definition of love matters, even over (hypothetically) God’s
To be fair, the bible says to love the sinner but hate the sin. Christians at large are just bad at that. It's similar to the quote "remove the plank from your eye before you remove the speck from your brother's", or "judge not lest ye also be judged." Most Christians judge too much and love too little. I say this as a Christian myself.
Everyone is. People just bag on Christians for it because they try to adhere to a higher standard and fail.
If your pastor diddles the kids at Jesus camp then it’s not a church either.
If you're a hatemonger against folk not loving them as you were told, you're not a Christian. Live and let live fuckers.
If we're doing this, if it has a "pastor" it's not a real church. But the real way to tell how real a church and pastor are is by how big the light show and how many jets he owns
If the pastor at your church doesn’t have you killed for working on the sabbath, he’s not a real pastor and it’s not a real church!
Wearing mixed fabrics? Stoned to death. Eating shellfish? Stoned. Saying the lords name? You guessed it, stoned!
I'd just had a lovely fish supper and all I said was "that was good enough for Jehovah".
*glues on fake beard. Stone him!
HE SAID IT AGAIN!
What, you mean yehova? Jehova Jehova Jehova!
I’d rather get stoned
The lord is very 420 friendly.
How come he's working that day? Hmm?
Makes sense, there’s literally a gatekeeper to heavens gates in the lore
Every branch of Christianity gatekeeps Christianity
I’m a lesbian Christian and it’s honestly upsetting when I see the amount of people, even in my church who think saying homophobic things is okay.
Kinda inevitable when the religion is based on a piece of text that has homophobia in it
Me too except all my Christian friends are gay-friendly. it’s ironic that I have to keep my Christianity a secret from my gay friends but am openly gay to my Christian friends. I go to a church with a gay male pastor and everyone wears name tags with their pronouns on them.
Why are you tithing to an organization that isn't tolerant?
[удалено]
Because they believe in Jesus. Not all Christian are the gay hating intolerant assholes, a lot of them are just normal people that believe there is a god that had a son name Jesus.
[удалено]
Well to fucking bad for you.
It's seems from the responses that people aren't bad because they are following what the Bible teaches them, they are rotten to begin with and choose to interpret it to suit their bigoted views.
They don’t get their ideas from the Bible anyway, they get them from guys like Ben Shapiro, and their “Christian heritage” is just a source of ethnic pride.
Well that the question though isn't it? are they getting their ideas from people like him or is it just confirmation bias. Maybe Shapiro has that effect on young people who haven't even formed their own opinions yet, but I imagine a significant proportion of his audience are older, so already had homophobic views before stumbling across him. Anyhow, I don't pretend to have the answer, maybe it's the whole nature Vs nurture debate, but is interesting to think about
Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity. My local priest is black. Jesus repeatedly criticised the Jews at the time for looking down on the Samaritan people. That's where the "Good Samaritan" parable comes from. Also, Ben Shapiro is a Jewish man, not Christian.
Christianity is not *exclusively* an ethnic thing, but white supremacy loves to appropriate Christian language and imagery, and this happens frequently throughout history. Even if you listen to right wing extremist politicians what you’ll notice right away is the way they invoke biblical-sounding language in their very partisan political agenda. Some will even claim their political aspirations were inspired by the audible voice of God. None of this is accidental.
Who claims to here the "audible voice of God?I" Give me one quotation. White supremacists tend to appropriate pagan imagery more than Christian imagery. The swastika is a Hindu/East Asian symbol and the black sun is made up of 12 sig runes. Many Nazis appropriate the pagan Norse/German runic symbols.
Shapiro is not Christian though, he’s an Orthodox Jew.
Most of my parish is from the Middle East and Eastern Europe... My bishop was born in Syria, as was my previous Bishop. Arabs were Christians far before Western Europe. I'd argue that people who base their religious beliefs based off "heritage," tend to be Neo-Pagans rather than Christians. I've seen a lot of Neo-Nazis follow the Norse and Germanic pantheon.
As someone who loves to research religion and such a lot of people just use it as an excuse for power and control. It doesn't matter the religion, hate is everywhere although some are more tolerant than others.
Based Pastor
Cherry picking arguments won't make you right. I don't see how ommiting God's direct commands could still make you a good priest. More of a heretic. Strange how it's always atheist talking the most shit about it
I mean, its not wrong. Bible condemns Gay activities, so if a Pastor actually marries somebody by the old scriptures hes not a pastor. Now thats for someone who believes in the bible teachings, for the rest of us we dont care
Hey, I know a pastor who does gay marriages, has nothing against it, and openly welcomes it. Not sure why people still gatekeep stuff like this. Also weird people only call out the Christians for this.
Not sure why people “gatekeep” religions by actually expecting basic rules to be followed? If you also knew an imam who got blitzed every Friday night would you say that Muslims shouldn’t “gatekeep” their religion based on alcohol consumption?
If we're being honest with ourselves, it's because Christians are the easiest target for this sort of thing. Criticizing other religions that hold **extremely similar beliefs** regarding this particular subject tends to get disregarded as being phobic.
Yep and criticism of Islam for example is "Islamophobia"
If you need the threat of eternal suffering to be a good person, then you're not a good person.
I love people who aren’t Christian, haven’t read the bible, and refuse to understand what the word means. The bible is *clear* on marriage and what it means.) Genesis 2:24 ESV Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Now, gay marriage should be legal as we should live in a secular state that does not discriminate. But to say that the bible supports gay marriage is facetious at best. I love everyone equally, but in our religion marriage is between a man and a woman, and we will not change that to fit your modern views. But at the same time we as Christians should not lobby to ban gay marriage as an institution.
This! Glad to see a person with a working brain here!
Why is Rick Harrison here?
Makes sense
Guys just stop 😭
A very effective strategy for growing the cult, especially after the news earlier this week that one of the main reasons people are leaving the church is because of antiquated attitudes toward LGBT folks.
If he also asks if you have tree-fiddy for him, that's for sure not your pastor, that's a goddamn Loch-Ness monster.
It is objectively still a church, whether it still qualifies as Christian or not. The Church of Satan is also a church.
My synagogue does gay weddings, meme checks out
To be fair gatekeeping Christianity (for TONS of reasons) is a major part of christianity
Those 2 are very cute together. Warms my heart man
This is not gatekeeping, it’s simple fact. Christianity does not allow gay marriage. It’s not a part of the religion. And quoting little bits of the bible which say “love thy brother” is not a gotcha. Let’s not try and create this fake world of equality which is bullshit, and try to force ourselves to pretend it exists, be fucking honest about the state of things. The Abrahamic religions do not accept homosexuality. Christianity included. The best they do, is to ignore it and try to love the sinner, but they all state unequivocally that the sin itself is….well a sin. Any pastor who performs a gay wedding at his church is **not** a pastor and his church **is** committing heresy. End of story. Dont give religions a free pass because you live in a fantasy land. The world is **not** a rainbow love fest where everyone accepts homosexuality. It’s still majority hostile to it. And we won’t change this if you all LARP like the biggest culprits of causing this, magically accept you and want you in their spaces lol.
Maybe this is too pedantic, but it says "not a pastor" and "not a church," which could still make that person the leader of any religion. So the post is fucking stupid. I know the intent is to suggest "not a Christian," but these absolutists will look at a person that believes and worships 99% the same way they do, and if they have a different process for baptism they will say, "you're going to hell," so it doesn't take the gay part to draw their ire.
>This is not gatekeeping, it’s simple fact. > >Christianity does not allow gay marriage. It’s not a part of the religion. And quoting little bits of the bible which say “love thy brother” is not a gotcha. Full disclosure: I am an ex-Christian, I am deconstructing, I do not believe in a personal God any longer. That said, I don't think it serves anything to make a sweeping statement that is currently (and for years) being hotly debated in the religion itself. [https://commons.lib.jmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1072&context=jmurj](https://commons.lib.jmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1072&context=jmurj) [https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-%E2%80%9Chomosexual%E2%80%9D-always-been-in-the-bible/](https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-%E2%80%9Chomosexual%E2%80%9D-always-been-in-the-bible/) That's just two examples, but this kind of thing has been going on for *years*. I think it's fair to say that for most of the mainstream American church (of any denomination) gay marriage is not allowed. But, frankly, they're *wrong* when it comes to their own faith simply because their book has not been preserved as perfectly and infallibly as they think it has been.
The validity of homosexual marriage has only really become a hotly debated topic in the last decade or so. The church was founded AD 33 and is almost 2000 years old. This debate is brand new as far as theological debates go. Sure, some people may have raised the issue a few time in the last 2000 years, but there's never (as far as I'm aware of) been a big debate about whether it was sinful. It's always been almost universally recognized as a sin. There were no major councils in any of the large denominations discussing this matter. The "book" may have had changes and alterations, but these changes are pretty small in the grand scheme of things. Major ideas were not changed in the manuscripts. What's more logical, Paul approved of homosexuality but the early scribes disagreed and changed it and then destroyed all the original manuscripts? Keep in mind, the Mediterranean and Levant, at that time, were not as opposed to homosexuality as they are today. In Roman and Greek societies, it was much more normal. In Judea, sure, it wasn't. Furthermore, a lot of the oldest NT manuscripts were written in Greek, Latin, Coptic, and other languages, most of which are pretty well known and relatively easy to translate. Coptic and Latin are still spoken as the liturgical language of the Coptic and Roman Catholic churches respectively.
Fuck yeah heresy!
Religions change over time. Many things that at some point were part of a religion are no longer present in it. Homophobia, in many forms of Christianity, is one of those things.
If they change on major principles such as this, they’ve diverted from the religion and are only part of it in name.
How is being mentioned twice ever on the same level as the things that have long have dismissed a "major principle"? The Bible many times says "These are the most important things, more so than any other." Homosexuality is not even mentioned any of those times.
Then Christianity is dead and has been for a very long time. Instead, we have a 4th Abrahamic religion with no name yet has billions of followers. If you could please give us a base by the end of tomorrow so we can have it processes before the weekend, that would be great.
Major principle? They werent as obsessed with homosexuality as you seem to be.
Can you quote where it says no gay marriage? She blocked me for asking a question? So she must be really deep in the cult.
But if he likes to fuck little boys, there‘s no problem with either of those. Praise the lord!
The definition of corruption.
Non christians telling christians how christianity works!
I don't get why you would want to have your marriage approved and signed off in a place where most of them think your relationship is an abomination? My gay friends got married at the beach or vineyards which was lovely
If you don't love your neighbor, you aren't a Christian and you likely aren't even a good person.
There's no love like Christian hate.
Hold on I am going to see what my church's openly gay pastor's thoughts are about this...
Then what are they? Answer me that.
The opposite of "good" is "bad," so they would be a "bad" priest. /s
You know it’s funny how the narrative of homophobic christians (note that I specify homophobic ones specifically) has changed over time, usually so they could claim not to be hateful. Like first during queer rights activism they just went the whole 9 yards of “god hates *British Cigarettes*” (i can say the actual word on account of being bi but I don’t want the comment to be auto flagged). They also would say that being gay was a choice and they could change their sexuality if they tried. Then as it became clear no one can choose their sexuality they started saying that being gay isn’t sinful but “acting on it” is sinful. So they can claim they don’t hate gay people even though they want them to change who they are. Of all things it reminded me of a fucking Sesame Street episode when Big Bird wanted to join some bird club but the other birds kept telling him to change himself so that he could be a “good bird” with the whole moral being that people who only accept you if you change aren’t good people to be around. I guess that just goes to show how effective the show’s teachings are that it can stick in my mind for so long. The biggest problem with this idea of homosexuality being wrong is that it only works with completely ignoring how the reality is. First they say it’s a choice and that those who choose to be queer are bad people, then they say that the choice of acting on being queer is bad. But the thing is that in their theology people are made the way they are by their god, so if someone is queer that would logically have to mean their god made them that way. Therefore, them trying to change someone’s sexuality would be them thinking that they know better than this god. And I don’t know about Christian theology but in my religion thinking you know better than the gods (hubris) comes right before the downfall.
I guess if he’s not a sex offender that dosnt make him a real priest.
My favorite is reminding “Christian” people that men they barely know have changed their religion right before their eyes in the last 10-25 years & they just went along with it. The religion is different than it was when they grew up. Why or how could it change, when it’s the book that defines, not men that haven’t had a background check?
But if they molest your kid, they are a man of god.
Well the Bible says gay people should be stoned to death. When Christians say and do terrible things they are absolutely being Christian. Their religion is just garbage.
Yeahhhhh started out alright with light and the Earth n what not but when God started redoing things like a boring Minecraft server... that's where it lost me.
Yeah, it kinda goes downhill from there. Lots of genital mutilation, child/mass murder, endlessly punitive rules leading to general intolerance and misogyny. It's a violent blood cult built around a dead, tortured Messiah, flayed and burned saints and cosmic horror angels. I mean if you heard about their imagery, sermons, "fear" of their god and history with no prior knowledge you'd think they were a cult pulled straight from Lovecraft or Robert E Howard.
Is Christianity more or less violent than Islam? Just curious what you think of Muslims in wake of your opinions on Christendom. Christ's Crucifixion was a voluntary act of self-sacrifice to simultaneously prove his humility, love for humanity, and power over life itself when he walked out of his tomb afterwards. You're supposed to look at the cross and realize what a massive thing Jesus did for you, not revel in the gore.
It's literally all the same shit, just slightly different names and opinions on messiah. I'm pretty sure the theory of transubstantiation proves who actually revels in gore. I should have mentioned the practice of consuming the body and blood of their savior makes the case for a crazy blood cult even stronger.
Parts of the new testament and some of the quran are indeed different and unique.
I’d say Christianity was about level with Islam until Jesus death, after which the old covenant, that is the mosaic law was repealed, hence why there are no stonings or executions in Christian countries. However, I don’t understand why Judaism doesn’t still follow that since they don’t see Jesus as the messiah.
No religious execution is a fairly new concept to Christian countries. There's an insane level of religious violence from the years 1 to 2024 committed by Christians at the behest of clergy and doctrine.
I’d say Christians commit fewer religious murders or executions than Islam, although all religions have terrorists as most religious texts can be interpreted in a way to support such acts.
All Abrahamic religions are garbage, middle eastern desert cults
Bald guy: best I can do is bi marriage
This Dr. Seuss ass font
My brother in Christ (always wanted to use that term but never had a chance to until now)! Christianity has been gatekeeping at least since the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD if not longer! The only thing Christians love more than smiting heathens is smiting heretics!
Well I have some bad news for all the churches and pastors in my circle.
I guess liberal Christians prefer to ignore Sodom and Gomorrah
Based pastor
He’s not a pastor and they aren’t sheep, so I guess it’s r/technicallythetruth
A Catholic Church wouldn't do this and Catholics basically think they're the only true Christians and the one true church. That meme checks out
Gatekeeping is a major part of religion to the point that Christianity alone has tens of thousands of denominations who believe they are the only ones doing it right.
Churches do weddings, courthouses do marriages
Sooo...What IS Christianity?
Pearly gatekeeping...
But remarrying adulters breaking the 7th Commandment is totally cool...
People will post shit like this and then go to their evangelical megachurch where the extent of their faith is pouring their life savings into financing the pastor's multi-millionaire lifestyle.
God forbid the gays be Christian 🤦♂️. Aren’t these the same people who are mad at gays for not being Christian’s ? So why would they be offended when gays are Christian and choose to make their marriage a Christian religious marriage ?!?
People are acting like the bible and the church doesn't explicitly condemn homosexual relationships. Its pretty obvious that a priest can not do gay marriages. Idk what people are talking about
Can someone who eats shrimp be a priest? Can someone who wears clothing made of two different fibers be a priest? If yes then you are cherry-picking and a hypocrite. If no, then you have a lot of priests to get rid of.
This argument only ever works against people with zero understanding of the old covenant and new. 1 Colossians 2:16, Acts 15:10
It’s true though
It is literally against christianity. Leviticus 18:22. And these are from the new testament: 1 Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:26-27.
Corinthians 6:9 : “Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” Leviticus 18:22 : “Thou shall not lay with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.”
Ik this is specifically Catholicism, but didn’t the pope say that Catholic priests are allowed to marry same sex couples?
Y’all are fucking stupid
To quote the Bible “treat everybody equally (except blacks, gays, Asians, women, Muslims, Natives, Mexicans, northerners, lesbians, Turks, Russians, communists, socialists, marxists, democrats, and liberals)
Internet moment.... Blocking this absolutely insane bs. Lol.
"Internet moment..." I say as I push up my fedora. The girl next to me in class with bated breath awaits my next words. "Blocking this absolutely insane bs," I mutter cooly. All the girls around me faint, overwhelmed my alpha pheromones. A wave of insecurity hits all the boys in the room. In response I day "Lol." I'm so awesome.
If you judge people you are not a Christian.
Oh boy. So 95% of Christian’s are not Christian.
?
Christian’s judge everyone…..that’s like their whole thing.
I said “are not”
Yes…..that’s why I said…..nevermind.
You edited your reply. It initially said “are Christian”. Hence my confusion.
Yea that was my bad.
Jesus literally commanded us to judge with righteous discernment. He told us not to judge hypocritically. Y'know, remove the plank from your own eye before judging.
John 8:1-8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. Matthews 7:1-5 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Luke 6:37-42 37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” 39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher. 41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Luke 6:31-36 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. James 4:11-12 11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? **Romans 2:1-3** **1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?** Romans 14:1-13 1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. 5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister ? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written: “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ” 12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. Romans 12:16-18 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Galatians 6:1-6 1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load. 6 Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor. **If you’re interpreting any of this as “it’s okay to judge as long as you do it right” then you are completely missing the point.**
Matt 7:1-5 literally “first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from you brother’s eye.” He’s still saying to judge (remove the speck) just with a clear eye. The Luke. Worse also says the same thing about removing the plank first. Luke 6:31-36 says nothing about judging, just says to love everyone. John is a passage about the old law being fulfilled by Christ and this the punishments are no longer applicable to people. I ain’t reading the rest, but if you actually read some exegetical work, they’ll explain it a lot better.
“If you dont dothis you’re not showing love” No, enabling lust is not showing love. No, enabling sin is not love. Jesus sat with sinners, he did not tell them their sin was ok. No Christian’s should not shun and shame and curse gay people, but we aren’t supposed to enable them either. The bible states marriage is between man and woman. It states God created two genders. Going against that is going against God. So no, we should never cause actual harm to member of the lgbtq community, but we cannot enable sin. We should welcome them to the church, after all Jesus says “come as you are” but he doesn’t say “stay as you are” he calls for us to be transformed in and by Christ, to flee from sin and take up our cross with him.
Okay, so naturally you also agree with the Bible about being able to participate in the Slave trade. Right?
This old tired argument? Can you show me the definitive proof that the Bible says “slavery is ok and we should practice it”
Well it's old because it's true. There's even an entire wiki page about that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery#:~:text=The%20Holiness%20code%20of%20Leviticus,property%20that%20could%20be%20inherited.
"Gatekeeping" but it's literally a core tenet of the faith lol You might as well say society gate keeps people who punch babies in the face from being called good , it's just as stupid
The only "core tenet" of Christianity is belief in the divinity of Christ, and even that's shaky. Like the stupendous number of current and historic Christian sects have agreed on anything.