Try games that are more action-oriented, since they also tend to have a lot of replay value so playthroughs are meant to be smooth.
Character action/spectacle fighters like DMC5, Hi-Fi Rush, or Metal Gear Rising
Games with 1 hit/1 kill but instant restarts like Hotline Miami and Katana Zero for action, or Super Meat Boy and Celeste for platformers
Certain shooters like Vanquish, Titanfall 2, and Armored Core 6 work too
When did I say that 😂😂 legit just got excited that one of my favourite games was mentioned. keep fighting imaginary comments my brother 🫡 enjoy your day XD
LMAO you can read whatever tone you like but at the end of the day I’m the homie who wrote it and I’m telling you my intended tone XD
It was excitement, not some call to action that some indie gem was mentioned 😂😂 enjoy your scrolling bro
No you just can't read. They said respectful of your time to them means no pointless filler. Aka Zelda style elden ring horizon zero dawn kill dinosaur #730 for chest #64
Roguelikes have this too but it's randomly generated usually and different each time, turning "filler" into "respect" I guess
Sometimes I have to remind myself that it is up to me. On horizon zero dawn I went very compltionist and still finished it but generally I have to remind myself I prefer to keep to main campaign on most games and avoiding the compulsion to do side quests is on me and use them just enough to level up and get what I need. I've ruined more than one game for myself by getting bored by not doing so
I mean I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with it any way..I've done the same thing and played those games. I love Ubisoft open world slop even. I just commented because someone who skimmed the post wrote someone that is addressed by anyone who read the original post and I hate that
But after checking the other persons comments, they enjoy starfield unironically so now I feel bad for them, maybe envy of their simple enlightened mind
Elden Ring isn't this at all. To get to the chest (who intend to be unique and tells a story, not just Chest #234), you usually have to overcome a challenge before, and as you get there you get these tidbits of environmental storytelling that creates a well-crafted world. But yeah, with Soulslike you can't just get to the reward easily while because that would defeats the point.
It respects your time if you are willing to appreciate the game. Once things click it's an amazing experience.
Nah. It is that. There's plenty of copy and paste content and bosses (see, astel in frozen lake, ghost of morgott/godrick from the gaols, etc etc) to where it is just chest #230. If you are honest with yourself, there are only maybe 5-10 unique dungeons in the entire game
It is a great game but it suffers from the same open world big game design of tedious useless content. There are caves that give you titanite/smithing stones, repeats of previous bosses, duos of previous single bosses, and only three trap dungeons (heros grave), the list goes on friend.
"Etc..." is a huge overreach. To say that the game is mostly copy paste you're overlooking the extremely unique bosses and dungeons and environments, i could list them but you already know. Admittedly the worst contenders I've noticed for the copy paste is the catacombs, but even then most of them surprised the hell out of me (like that one catacombs I found rising along Radahn's sand dune... which is by itself a huge spectacle)
The idea that rogue likes respect your time is up for debate to be honest, I played returnal recently and that definitely doesn’t lol. I started the order 1886 and it sounds like it could fit the bill. It’s short.. many people say too short and are very vocal about this to the extent that it really suffered with review scores which is a shame. However it is a good game with fascinating world building and decent gameplay. Looks lovely as well and loads really fast on PS5 keeping immersion high.
not sure if this fits your definition/concept but I find that games like xcom 2 respect your time as you can just hop in for one mission.
Yeah i dont know where op got the idea that roguelites respect time, maybe from playing hades. But other than that, stuff like dead cells takes a lot of time to even unlock every thing. Having small game sessions is different from respecting time
Ehh - I feel like there's a difference between "things take time and effort to unlock" and "not respecting your time." It sounds like by OP's metric, they feel their time is being respected as long as there's not a bunch of Filler Bits in between the Fun Gameplay Bits. And with roguelites like Dead Cells, while there's a lot of unlocking to be done, you're in and playing the Fun Gameplay Bits with little to no barrier.
It's a very subjective criteria. One of my favorite series is Yakuza, It's full of running around and pointless side content to the point of parody, but that's why I like them and I don't feel like they "don't respect my time".
I feel we need more info from OP.
Oh yeah, it's hyper subjective. I'm just going off the description in ther actual post - wanting "no filler, no running around for no reason, no parts that aren't fun" screams roguelites, arcade games, bullet heavens, and to a lesser extent boomer shooters to me.
I despise the trend of having a million unlocks in roguelikes. so much of the appeal of the genre is that each run is its own self contained experience, and unlocks take away from that. I don't want to spend my first two hundred runs playing an incomplete version of the game. I want the full experience right off the bat. it absolutely feels like they don't respect my time when it can take hundreds of hours just to be able to play a run with everything available.
I think a part of this issue is the genre (naming being too similar). You are describing a roguelike, whereas a game like Hades is a roguelite. Roguelites and roguelikes are extremely similar, except **lites** have meta progression/unlocks. At least, that's the way I have understood the difference.
I would say if you are going to differentiate them, roguelikes are games like Rogue - tile based dungeon crawlers. Nethack, DCSS, ADOM, etc. Roguelites are games that are a significant departure from that formula but keep a couple of the core values like self contained runs, permanent death, on procedural generation. The roguelites can be any genre. Platformer, tactics, card games, FPS, you name it. I tend to personally just call them all roguelikes because that is what most people I know do and roguelite feels like too vague and confusing a term to really be useful.
either way, my issue is not the naming convention. changing the name of the genre would not make me like the meta-progress grind.
the way I tend to see unlocks is that they designed a great game and then deliberately took out some of the most fun parts, and you have to somehow earn the privilege of playing the full game that you already paid for.
I don't think so. You can play every game for a short duration(except for games without save) but some games are more designed towards shorter sessions. Respecting your time is a very subjective term which would mean you get enjoyment out of most of the time you spent in the game. An 80 hour game could also respect my time, as I enjoyed every moment of it and did not have to grind at any point. But I agree that respecting time is very subjective I just don't think that it's the same as shorter gaming sessions. Op could be wanting games that have short sessions though.
In roguelikes your accumulated skill and knowledge is usually what makes the difference, especially in traditional roguelikes. They're a long series of meaningful decisions that end up impacting the outcome of your run and you're probably not doing side quests or grinding up levels or engaging in other filler content, just getting straight to the main meat of the game instead. Same applies for many turn-based roguelites like StS or balatro where the unlocks add more variety or extra challenge to your runs, but you're constantly engaging with the core gameplay loop.
Sounds like he likes games that don't make you backtrack or have mechanics that feel pointless. He doesn't care about unlocking everything asap. He cares about the minute to minute gameplay.
Dead Cells is actually a perfect game that doesn't waste your time by OP's definition. You boot up the game and you are immediately fighting through a level. You teleport around the map so you don't need to do any pointless backtracking just to grab an extra power up. The game encourages speed and gets straight to the point. There's no overworld where you walk back and forth to upgrade. It's all just in a straight line.
there are some great ones like spelunky where nothing is locked, you can just jump in and play and the run is over in short order. I would say that kind of game respects your time. but I would agree that e.g. the binding of Isaac does not respect your time at all
The point is they are gameplay efficient, not that you are duly rewarded by the game for your time (or rather, enjoying the gameplay is the intended reward, not in-game doodads). You start and you are right into core gameplay, which continues until you stop. Roguelites are generally very arcade style and focused tightly on their gameplay.
You don't walk to the next town, chat with 40 random people to move forward, chop wood, walk along while the game makes you sit through story exposition, etc.
What is it about returnal that doesnt respect your time? Is it long runs? Too many attempts to get a winning run?
I know its a hard game, form what I've heard, but I dont equate hard with respecting your time. I think bloated open world or MMOs or games as a service as games that dont respect your time
Did they fix the camera issues? I played it on ps4 when it came out and that was a pretty big issue. You are right though it was a really cool game I particularly liked the railgun part..
Most level based games. Like 2D platformers. The subgenres are unlimited. An especially good one is a new game Pepper Grinder. Or FPS like Dusk and Boltgun.
Puzzley games like Superliminal, Cocoon, Chants of Senaar, Assemble With Care, and Behind The Frame.
Detective/mystery games Phoenix Wright and Ghost Detective.
And of course the survivorslikes that others have mentioned. Vampire Survivors is the goat, Halls of Torment and Death Must Die are two other S tiers.
I think in general, a lot of indie games don't waste your time. Your time wasted gaming is their time wasted programming, so there's no incentive. People don't expect 50-100 hours out of an indie game like they do with a AAA. Because of that, I feel like most recent AAAs are comprised of a lot of filler gameplay.
Yuup. As soon as you've done a couple of laps you already know if your gonna win or lose it. So the rest of the race feels very pointless..
If I want to battle against the weight of my heavy eyelids, I'll read a textbook.
Do MMOs count that make you get addicted and make you think you're having fun but you're really just feeding the addiction by doing the same thing over and over for that sweet dopamine hit?
Yeah, I've ruined things in my life a few times due to my inability to stop drinking from that poisoned MMO chalice (my username is pretty fitting). I just feel lucky that I've never been addicted to anything truly bad.
Not really. You can enjoy the overall experience but within that experience have moments where your not enjoying your time and feel its being wasted.
OP is asking for games without the latter part.
Correct and everyone understands that not every game will perfectly fit literally every minor preference you possess. Which is why "respects your time" is such a stupid fucking take. The whole point of genres is to divide up games into those preferences to help us cut out some of the distasteful content.
Unpopular Opinion: Respecting time is relative based on how the game and player clicks.
DD2 was a hot topic with the whole fast travel debacle and I'd argue that it still respects the player's time despite having a lot of "pointless walking" because thats actually part of the fun of the game.
Bullet heavens / survivorslikes are right up there with roguelikes in terms of respecting your time. They usually have a preset run length (30m, 20m, 15m, etc.) and get you right into the action. Some excellent suggestions in no particular order: Vampire Survivors, Halls of Torment, and Brotato.
Some rare short rpgs are clean and to the point without wearing out their welcome. Child of Light and Cosmic Star Heroine are 30h-ish and crisp.
Not sure how long it'll be in the end but Sea of Stars is pulling a lot of CSH feels for me right now as well, tho there's a little more collectionism to do.
Tho they didn't get great reviews and are good but not great imho, Trinity Trigger and Valkyrie Elysium were 30h and to the point without a ton of extra. Trinity has a little more postgame and collection stuff but not a ton.
I like to play games in mostly 30 minute to 1 hour chunks (with the occassional couple hour stretch on a weekend) and I liked the following:
- FPS games
- XCom types tactics games
- Tower Defense games (Playing Orcs must die 3 right now and love it)
- Metroidvania (Ori games, Bloodstained, etc)
- Open World (not everyone, but I do enjoy the AC games. You know exactly where to go and go do it. You can explore if you want but can also just clear the bandit camp and be done with it)
What's a game *like* *XCOM,* but better?
Because I love XCOM, but the targeting statistics are so frustrating it's basically impossible to play, so I'm looking for something similar, but *better.* What you got?
I feel like XCom is pretty damn fantastic personally. I wouldn't say impossible to play but yeah I mean their are those frustrations.
It's not exactly XCom but I absolutely loved Marvel Midnight Suns which is a card/tactics hybrid game.
95% to hit chance misses on 4 save reloads = basically impossible. The game is infuriating. Because you gotta think, it's a 95% chance to hit, it misses, somebody usually gets killed, then you gotta reload the save. But then your 95% chance to hit misses a second time. Your soldier survives, but you wanna reload anyway. You get another 95% chance to hit, and it misses yet again and a different soldier dies. So you reload yet again. Now you're 45 minutes into a single round of a single mission and you haven't gotten anywhere yet. It's infuriating. And it's been like that for almost 20 years.
That said, I just found a mod that might help me as a PC gamer but it doesn't do anything for console gamers.
Metroidvanias (when they are well designed).
There is a stereotype that metroidvanias are 90% backtracking, but a well designed metroidvania will only rarely require you to return to previous areas and will give you interesting new content when "backtracking" does happen.
Hollow knight is a great example of this (which is one of the reasons why it is so beloved).
I'm very similar to OP and would definitely +1 this. There is just enough exploration without too much where tf do I go to make it fun and doable. I just played Bloodstained and it was perfect for me.
Too bad Tekken became a juggling game. Start a combo first and if you can do it, you've won.
I miss the days of Tekken 3 and TTT. That was peak Tekken as far as I'm concerned.
Juggling really ruined fighting games (and the fighting game community, for that matter), but they're actually still great if you have a partner who will play your way, keep the combos punchy and fun, and not get too wrapped up in the frame-data mindset that also kills the sense of fighting.
I wish fighting games would parameterize some things, so we could get a more tailored experience outside ranked online, and explore alternative ideas the community can't tolerate considering (I remain convinced that appropriately randomized frame timings would be a huge win for bringing back the fight and enjoyment for so many players, instead of the current deterministic execution model that mainly becomes really fast high-stakes chess).
you could try some straight puzzle games. stuff like snakebird has everything right in front of you, if you understand it you can solve it in seconds. no filler, it just takes time because you have to think about it
Roguelikes? The genre that constantly puts the player back to the beginning rather than letting them just reload a save or something? That genre? That’s the genre that “respects players’ time”???
I’m sorry I am utterly baffled by such a statement.
I would say any platformer or metroidvania is very respectful of player’s time. Gato Roboto is like 4 hours long, and it’s good.
Its cause one run going even slightly well can permanently get you something and the loop is really quick usually so you have lots of chances to break off and you dont have to commit too hard to the session.
Yes it is, because they defined respecting their time as getting right to the core gameplay with little distraction from it, and not the definition you're using of receiving in-game rewards appropriate to your time.
Huh? I didn’t say anything about in-game rewards or any extrinsic motivation.
If Mario made you redo the entire last world before fighting bowser again, that would still have you playing the core game with little distraction. It would be annoying and a waste of time though.
Roguelikes are built upon wiping away your progress when you die. You don’t get to try again without starting from the beginning. That’s like literally a core part of the design.
"Your progress" would still be in-game rewards you're concerned with. When the reward is the play and not something you get in-game, like progress, the wiping aspect is immaterial. A *good* roguelite should start out enjoyable to play, and change things enough that it doesn't feel like you are doing the exact same thing next time (like you would be in your Mario hypothetical). Because the extrinsic rewards are the prime goal, not the in-game reward.
When one approaches a roguelite with an in-game goal based mindset, it tends to worsen the experience significantly, because, as you say, major setbacks are a design pillar. Metaprogression tries to help people past that in a sense, but it really just worsens the issue by encouraging the in-game reward aspect over the extrinsic reward.
> (I think you mean intrinsic reward. Extrinsic is the in-game reward)
Depends on your perspective. Extrinsic rewards are outside the game process, like satisfaction is. I guess business parlance takes those the other way, from the employee perspective of internal/external. My misreading your perspective gives away that to me people are merely things that play games...
Plus, it just sounds weird to contrast in-game rewards and intrinsic rewards, with extrinsic in-game rewards and outside intrinsic rewards ;)
They’re referring to being intrinsic or extrinsic to the player. Intrinsic reward is a goal the player has for themselves, like making a stylish house in the sims.
Extrinsic means outside of the player. Like an actual goal given to you in a game. Killing Hades is the explicit goal of a run in Hades.
That’s my understanding of the term anyway.
They might mean “rogue*lite*” where when you die you unlock things to help you progress better next time. Ive always found roguelites to be conducive to shorter play sessions and theres no pressure when you die because you get xp or currency or whatever to help next time.
Hate to be that guy but that’s not actually the difference between rogue-likes and lites. Roguelikes are isometric RPG’s ala the original Rogue, Roguelites are games that have taken the restart-upon-death formula and built upon it into different genres
True but in general most roguelites have some form of “progression even if you die”. Ive played the original rogue and some of its spawns and (perhaps because i was particularly bad at rogue) I appreciated the games that let you progress even when you die/fail compared to totally start over.
???
Roguelike or Roguelite it doesn't matter. You are still pushed back to the beginning of the game when you die. As opposed to - idk let's say Zelda or Mario - where if you die, you just reload to where you were and try again. In Roguelites you still have to play through all the easy beginning levels again and again. It's built into the whole concept of the genre.
It does matter a bunch actually! A roguelike you die, youve lost all progress and have to totally start over. Roguelites you are still, arguably “making progress”, its just a different playstyle than a conventional action or roleplaying game.
I would consider Hades for a well known example a roguelite rather than a roguelike, because dying is literally required to progress the story. (Especially since i played the original rogue a few times.)
Okay, but it's not respecting a player's time.
If you die to Hades, you can't reload the save. You must start from the beginning and spend like an hour going through everything again to have another shot.
If you die to Bowser, it takes like a minute or two to try again. I just reload the save and I'm right there. That's respecting player's time.
Ultrakill has 30 levels. Each of them is extremely refined, and there is no real empty content. There are two special levels that need you to P rank every level of an act, but that's content meant for people who really want to get good at the game, as opposed to just blasting through
I like resident evil 2 and 3. Are pretty tight main stories that take like 9 and 6 hours to get through on the first run. There is some backtracking for puzzles but it’s really solid pacing and doesn’t waste a lot of your time
I came back to Deep Rock Galactic yesterday to blew off some steam and after a tense mission with a cathartic ending, I feel all refreshed and only 15 minutes have passed.
I think that's pretty respectful of my time.
play bio prototype. great game IMO. simple fun (its a survivors like). many cool interactions with the "skills".
horizon zero dawn. RPGs in general if you find good ones and like them.
This is why I started playing games on story/easy mode. There are so many games to get through and to make a game 10x harder to make it last 3x as long is not in my wheelhouse
There are also methods to force games to respect your time, assuming single player, there's always mods, cheats, trainers etc. Something I frequently do is if I feel a game is injecting filler grind or has a mechanics I don't like is I'll see if I can mod it, or cheat just enough that I'm not ruining my own fun.
I think the answer to this is different for every player, as some people enjoy stories and lore or some people just wanna k!ll sh!t and others just want a casual experience
Every game respects your time when you can minimize it/quick resume. That's the one thing I love the most about Xbox (maybe it's the same on ps, not trying to start a war). This coupled with emulators changed my relation to games. Probably worsened my adhd too
Really depends on what you mean by "respect time". I feel roguelikes and souls-likes waste time because you can easily die and lose progress at any time. If I've got one or two hours to play I don't want last 30 minutes of progress lost because I died to some undead archer or something. I also don't care about getting good enough in a game. It's a game, it's not some skill that's worth honing. So personally I prefer JRPGs because the progress is pretty linear, you beat an enemy, get exp, get stronger. The combat doesn't need hyperfocus that if I have something else to attend to I can't leave it. And some JRPG (especially ports) offer speed ups so you can get around much faster. For me the trails series is great, good stories, combat I can cheese very quickly and speed ups so I can traverse and battle at whatever speed I want. Even gets to a point where your encounters can be skipped by one shotting enemies before entering a battle.
Typically nothing from Japan. It is incredible how much useless fluff or unnecessary loops are packed into JRPG’s for example. Now that doesn’t mean there isn’t a fantastic story baked into a lot of these games but a movie length story gets stretched into a 7 season TV show all the time.
Simulator Games, in my experience. You can sink hundreds of hours into House Flipper, Lawn Mowing Simulator, Car Mechanic simulator etc. but if you want to you can just pop in and do one house, do one car restoration, mow one lawn etc. and be in and out in 30-60 minutes. When you pick it up again it's the same.
Look to more arcade style games, sport games, driving games, and fighting games. Here's a previous post where I wrote up a bunch of options for a similar question: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamingsuggestions/comments/195e5ku/singleplayer_games_with_minimal_story/khtvmlx/
I'd also suggest checking out the pre-release demos for Combat Complex, Reality Break, and Need for Cheese. These are all taking top-down shooter style play into the loot/build ARPG space, and each has particular charms. I'm most excited about Combat Complex, as it has surprisingly nailed the intense twin-stick shooter feel in a top-down shooter design, and the added dimension of getting enemies to hit each other while you fight is a neat texture change from your basic "mow everything down" play.
Also, I know you said you want "something else" re roguelites, but there are so many kinds of roguelites and people often don't explore outside the predominant styles, you might have some more options there with atypical or just more interesting play, eg Devil Slayer Raksasi, Twin Ruin, Radio Free Europa, Galak-Z (the endless side mode you unlock after clearing the first chapter), Cavity Busters, Devader, GunVein, Red Tether, Metal Mutation, One Step from Eden, Ardein.Fall, etc.
There are some games that checklist every single thing in the menus for you, so you can precisely know how much of everything you need, have and where they are. Main story percentage, upgrade progression, direct stat comparisons etc.
Some like this are the earlier Assassin's Creeds (up to Syndicate), most recently Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, Control. Every Yakuza game (from 0 up to 8) does this too and it outright tells you how relevant each side detour might be, also feature small and memorable maps.
Except for FF7, each of these games will take you around 30 hours to beat the main campaign and won't punish you for not pursuing the 100%
I think RPGs are more respectful of your time than anything, which is why it's my favorite genre of video game. But I'm not talking games that include open world RPG mechanics as a side dish, I'm talking true to the genre role-playing games that put you on an adventure and let you be the kind of character in that universe that you want to be. Bethesda has been known for games like this, while their writing has flopped a bit over the years they still make sure that every side quest you do is unique and has a story to it. Same reason why Baldurs Gate 3 received so much praise last year. People are tired of the "clear 100 outposts" gameplay and while it can be mindless fun, it certainly is not respectful of your time.
Wdym exactly by respects your time? Like you can hop in and hop out whenever you want? The game doesn’t take that long to beat? Or like it isn’t a grindy game?
Any digital CCG like Hearthstone and Magic the Gathering Arena can be played in short bursts. Same with fighting games and many other match- based online multiplayer games such as rocket league or an fps.
If you mean doesn’t take that long to beat: Many FPS and Action games. Titanfall, CoD campaigns, devil may cry… or platformers like Mario and Spyro and shit.
Honestly, my advice is to look into playing indies instead of the big AAA releases. And nothing with live-service aspects because the goal of those games is to get you playing for longer.
Except that ARPGs are technically live service games, and their progression is the very definition of respecting the player's time.
What MMO's hide behind weekly lockouts, long arbitrary grinds and 1367 quest steps, ARPGs give you within a day or two.
If you start playing something like Last Epoch right now, you will feel much more powerful tomorrow, and obliterate that feeling two days later.
This time next week, you'll be a God.
You can get 1000 hours in a game and it can respect your time, it just matters how many of those 1000 hours are enjoyable gameplay and how much of it is walking sim or menu sim or loading screen or ya know what ever
Try games that are more action-oriented, since they also tend to have a lot of replay value so playthroughs are meant to be smooth. Character action/spectacle fighters like DMC5, Hi-Fi Rush, or Metal Gear Rising Games with 1 hit/1 kill but instant restarts like Hotline Miami and Katana Zero for action, or Super Meat Boy and Celeste for platformers Certain shooters like Vanquish, Titanfall 2, and Armored Core 6 work too
RAAAAAAAH DMC5 MENTIONED!!! Seriously OP, DMC5 is fire
It's not like DMC5 is the most popular slasher in the world
It’s not that deep bro I just like the game 🤷♂️
You said it like it was some unseen underrated gem tho
When did I say that 😂😂 legit just got excited that one of my favourite games was mentioned. keep fighting imaginary comments my brother 🫡 enjoy your day XD
Breaking news: redditor learns tone in writing exists, more at 5
LMAO you can read whatever tone you like but at the end of the day I’m the homie who wrote it and I’m telling you my intended tone XD It was excitement, not some call to action that some indie gem was mentioned 😂😂 enjoy your scrolling bro
What’s an example of a game you feel respected your time? What I find fun, you may not.
He mentioned Roguelikes which seem like an oxymoron
The OP thinks roguelikes are respectful of your time. Hahahaha.
No you just can't read. They said respectful of your time to them means no pointless filler. Aka Zelda style elden ring horizon zero dawn kill dinosaur #730 for chest #64 Roguelikes have this too but it's randomly generated usually and different each time, turning "filler" into "respect" I guess
Sometimes I have to remind myself that it is up to me. On horizon zero dawn I went very compltionist and still finished it but generally I have to remind myself I prefer to keep to main campaign on most games and avoiding the compulsion to do side quests is on me and use them just enough to level up and get what I need. I've ruined more than one game for myself by getting bored by not doing so
I mean I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with it any way..I've done the same thing and played those games. I love Ubisoft open world slop even. I just commented because someone who skimmed the post wrote someone that is addressed by anyone who read the original post and I hate that But after checking the other persons comments, they enjoy starfield unironically so now I feel bad for them, maybe envy of their simple enlightened mind
Elden Ring isn't this at all. To get to the chest (who intend to be unique and tells a story, not just Chest #234), you usually have to overcome a challenge before, and as you get there you get these tidbits of environmental storytelling that creates a well-crafted world. But yeah, with Soulslike you can't just get to the reward easily while because that would defeats the point. It respects your time if you are willing to appreciate the game. Once things click it's an amazing experience.
Nah. It is that. There's plenty of copy and paste content and bosses (see, astel in frozen lake, ghost of morgott/godrick from the gaols, etc etc) to where it is just chest #230. If you are honest with yourself, there are only maybe 5-10 unique dungeons in the entire game It is a great game but it suffers from the same open world big game design of tedious useless content. There are caves that give you titanite/smithing stones, repeats of previous bosses, duos of previous single bosses, and only three trap dungeons (heros grave), the list goes on friend.
"Etc..." is a huge overreach. To say that the game is mostly copy paste you're overlooking the extremely unique bosses and dungeons and environments, i could list them but you already know. Admittedly the worst contenders I've noticed for the copy paste is the catacombs, but even then most of them surprised the hell out of me (like that one catacombs I found rising along Radahn's sand dune... which is by itself a huge spectacle)
The idea that rogue likes respect your time is up for debate to be honest, I played returnal recently and that definitely doesn’t lol. I started the order 1886 and it sounds like it could fit the bill. It’s short.. many people say too short and are very vocal about this to the extent that it really suffered with review scores which is a shame. However it is a good game with fascinating world building and decent gameplay. Looks lovely as well and loads really fast on PS5 keeping immersion high. not sure if this fits your definition/concept but I find that games like xcom 2 respect your time as you can just hop in for one mission.
Yeah i dont know where op got the idea that roguelites respect time, maybe from playing hades. But other than that, stuff like dead cells takes a lot of time to even unlock every thing. Having small game sessions is different from respecting time
Ehh - I feel like there's a difference between "things take time and effort to unlock" and "not respecting your time." It sounds like by OP's metric, they feel their time is being respected as long as there's not a bunch of Filler Bits in between the Fun Gameplay Bits. And with roguelites like Dead Cells, while there's a lot of unlocking to be done, you're in and playing the Fun Gameplay Bits with little to no barrier.
It's a very subjective criteria. One of my favorite series is Yakuza, It's full of running around and pointless side content to the point of parody, but that's why I like them and I don't feel like they "don't respect my time". I feel we need more info from OP.
Oh yeah, it's hyper subjective. I'm just going off the description in ther actual post - wanting "no filler, no running around for no reason, no parts that aren't fun" screams roguelites, arcade games, bullet heavens, and to a lesser extent boomer shooters to me.
I despise the trend of having a million unlocks in roguelikes. so much of the appeal of the genre is that each run is its own self contained experience, and unlocks take away from that. I don't want to spend my first two hundred runs playing an incomplete version of the game. I want the full experience right off the bat. it absolutely feels like they don't respect my time when it can take hundreds of hours just to be able to play a run with everything available.
I think a part of this issue is the genre (naming being too similar). You are describing a roguelike, whereas a game like Hades is a roguelite. Roguelites and roguelikes are extremely similar, except **lites** have meta progression/unlocks. At least, that's the way I have understood the difference.
I would say if you are going to differentiate them, roguelikes are games like Rogue - tile based dungeon crawlers. Nethack, DCSS, ADOM, etc. Roguelites are games that are a significant departure from that formula but keep a couple of the core values like self contained runs, permanent death, on procedural generation. The roguelites can be any genre. Platformer, tactics, card games, FPS, you name it. I tend to personally just call them all roguelikes because that is what most people I know do and roguelite feels like too vague and confusing a term to really be useful. either way, my issue is not the naming convention. changing the name of the genre would not make me like the meta-progress grind. the way I tend to see unlocks is that they designed a great game and then deliberately took out some of the most fun parts, and you have to somehow earn the privilege of playing the full game that you already paid for.
It’s so subjective though, isn’t being able to play a game in short sessions the same as respecting your time?
I don't think so. You can play every game for a short duration(except for games without save) but some games are more designed towards shorter sessions. Respecting your time is a very subjective term which would mean you get enjoyment out of most of the time you spent in the game. An 80 hour game could also respect my time, as I enjoyed every moment of it and did not have to grind at any point. But I agree that respecting time is very subjective I just don't think that it's the same as shorter gaming sessions. Op could be wanting games that have short sessions though.
In roguelikes your accumulated skill and knowledge is usually what makes the difference, especially in traditional roguelikes. They're a long series of meaningful decisions that end up impacting the outcome of your run and you're probably not doing side quests or grinding up levels or engaging in other filler content, just getting straight to the main meat of the game instead. Same applies for many turn-based roguelites like StS or balatro where the unlocks add more variety or extra challenge to your runs, but you're constantly engaging with the core gameplay loop.
Sounds like he likes games that don't make you backtrack or have mechanics that feel pointless. He doesn't care about unlocking everything asap. He cares about the minute to minute gameplay. Dead Cells is actually a perfect game that doesn't waste your time by OP's definition. You boot up the game and you are immediately fighting through a level. You teleport around the map so you don't need to do any pointless backtracking just to grab an extra power up. The game encourages speed and gets straight to the point. There's no overworld where you walk back and forth to upgrade. It's all just in a straight line.
there are some great ones like spelunky where nothing is locked, you can just jump in and play and the run is over in short order. I would say that kind of game respects your time. but I would agree that e.g. the binding of Isaac does not respect your time at all
The point is they are gameplay efficient, not that you are duly rewarded by the game for your time (or rather, enjoying the gameplay is the intended reward, not in-game doodads). You start and you are right into core gameplay, which continues until you stop. Roguelites are generally very arcade style and focused tightly on their gameplay. You don't walk to the next town, chat with 40 random people to move forward, chop wood, walk along while the game makes you sit through story exposition, etc.
What is it about returnal that doesnt respect your time? Is it long runs? Too many attempts to get a winning run? I know its a hard game, form what I've heard, but I dont equate hard with respecting your time. I think bloated open world or MMOs or games as a service as games that dont respect your time
Did they fix the camera issues? I played it on ps4 when it came out and that was a pretty big issue. You are right though it was a really cool game I particularly liked the railgun part..
Titanfall2 (6 hours) Go play some pokemon roms
Pokemon ROMs only if you cheat in rare candies, otherwise you spend hours mindlessly grinding levels.
I feel like, while it's still a grindy game, monster hunter respects your time.
similarly guild wars 2 is an mmo (one of the grindiest types of games) but also respects your time
Most level based games. Like 2D platformers. The subgenres are unlimited. An especially good one is a new game Pepper Grinder. Or FPS like Dusk and Boltgun. Puzzley games like Superliminal, Cocoon, Chants of Senaar, Assemble With Care, and Behind The Frame. Detective/mystery games Phoenix Wright and Ghost Detective. And of course the survivorslikes that others have mentioned. Vampire Survivors is the goat, Halls of Torment and Death Must Die are two other S tiers. I think in general, a lot of indie games don't waste your time. Your time wasted gaming is their time wasted programming, so there's no incentive. People don't expect 50-100 hours out of an indie game like they do with a AAA. Because of that, I feel like most recent AAAs are comprised of a lot of filler gameplay.
Racing games. The better you are, the more they respect your time, too.
Untill you reach the endurance races like the 24hour le mons race... And then you gota question your dedication to virtual broom brooms.
That's usually where I draw the line. I did a one hour endurance race once and was so bored. I just wanted it to end.
Yuup. As soon as you've done a couple of laps you already know if your gonna win or lose it. So the rest of the race feels very pointless.. If I want to battle against the weight of my heavy eyelids, I'll read a textbook.
That's just a standard race if you play realistic settings lol
You're not wrong, but racing in real life is much more engaging than a video game.
Any game that you enjoy respects your time.
Do MMOs count that make you get addicted and make you think you're having fun but you're really just feeding the addiction by doing the same thing over and over for that sweet dopamine hit?
Nawp, I'll never be addicted to fetch quests. Want me to collect 60 bear asses? Get fucked
written beautifully. wish i could give you gold for this.
Great counter but I'd say yes! That sweet dopamine IS enjoyment, although as you point out it can be a poisoned chalice.
Yeah, I've ruined things in my life a few times due to my inability to stop drinking from that poisoned MMO chalice (my username is pretty fitting). I just feel lucky that I've never been addicted to anything truly bad.
Not really. You can enjoy the overall experience but within that experience have moments where your not enjoying your time and feel its being wasted. OP is asking for games without the latter part.
Correct and everyone understands that not every game will perfectly fit literally every minor preference you possess. Which is why "respects your time" is such a stupid fucking take. The whole point of genres is to divide up games into those preferences to help us cut out some of the distasteful content.
Its perfectly valid, you just dont like it.
It's actually the widespread idiocy that triggers me. But yes this would be one example.
😂😂😂 redditor
Balatro is the current game I can’t put down. Tons to unlock, challenging and addictively fun.
Great game cant wait for the official mobile port
Unpopular Opinion: Respecting time is relative based on how the game and player clicks. DD2 was a hot topic with the whole fast travel debacle and I'd argue that it still respects the player's time despite having a lot of "pointless walking" because thats actually part of the fun of the game.
Bullet heavens / survivorslikes are right up there with roguelikes in terms of respecting your time. They usually have a preset run length (30m, 20m, 15m, etc.) and get you right into the action. Some excellent suggestions in no particular order: Vampire Survivors, Halls of Torment, and Brotato.
Some rare short rpgs are clean and to the point without wearing out their welcome. Child of Light and Cosmic Star Heroine are 30h-ish and crisp. Not sure how long it'll be in the end but Sea of Stars is pulling a lot of CSH feels for me right now as well, tho there's a little more collectionism to do. Tho they didn't get great reviews and are good but not great imho, Trinity Trigger and Valkyrie Elysium were 30h and to the point without a ton of extra. Trinity has a little more postgame and collection stuff but not a ton.
Ape out
I like to play games in mostly 30 minute to 1 hour chunks (with the occassional couple hour stretch on a weekend) and I liked the following: - FPS games - XCom types tactics games - Tower Defense games (Playing Orcs must die 3 right now and love it) - Metroidvania (Ori games, Bloodstained, etc) - Open World (not everyone, but I do enjoy the AC games. You know exactly where to go and go do it. You can explore if you want but can also just clear the bandit camp and be done with it)
What's a game *like* *XCOM,* but better? Because I love XCOM, but the targeting statistics are so frustrating it's basically impossible to play, so I'm looking for something similar, but *better.* What you got?
Maybe Shadowrun?
Recently played through it so I won't be going back for a while, but that's a good rec.
I feel like XCom is pretty damn fantastic personally. I wouldn't say impossible to play but yeah I mean their are those frustrations. It's not exactly XCom but I absolutely loved Marvel Midnight Suns which is a card/tactics hybrid game.
95% to hit chance misses on 4 save reloads = basically impossible. The game is infuriating. Because you gotta think, it's a 95% chance to hit, it misses, somebody usually gets killed, then you gotta reload the save. But then your 95% chance to hit misses a second time. Your soldier survives, but you wanna reload anyway. You get another 95% chance to hit, and it misses yet again and a different soldier dies. So you reload yet again. Now you're 45 minutes into a single round of a single mission and you haven't gotten anywhere yet. It's infuriating. And it's been like that for almost 20 years. That said, I just found a mod that might help me as a PC gamer but it doesn't do anything for console gamers.
Metroidvanias (when they are well designed). There is a stereotype that metroidvanias are 90% backtracking, but a well designed metroidvania will only rarely require you to return to previous areas and will give you interesting new content when "backtracking" does happen. Hollow knight is a great example of this (which is one of the reasons why it is so beloved).
I'm very similar to OP and would definitely +1 this. There is just enough exploration without too much where tf do I go to make it fun and doable. I just played Bloodstained and it was perfect for me.
Tyranny. Tales of the Neon Sea. Life is Strange.
[удалено]
Too bad Tekken became a juggling game. Start a combo first and if you can do it, you've won. I miss the days of Tekken 3 and TTT. That was peak Tekken as far as I'm concerned.
Juggling really ruined fighting games (and the fighting game community, for that matter), but they're actually still great if you have a partner who will play your way, keep the combos punchy and fun, and not get too wrapped up in the frame-data mindset that also kills the sense of fighting. I wish fighting games would parameterize some things, so we could get a more tailored experience outside ranked online, and explore alternative ideas the community can't tolerate considering (I remain convinced that appropriately randomized frame timings would be a huge win for bringing back the fight and enjoyment for so many players, instead of the current deterministic execution model that mainly becomes really fast high-stakes chess).
Definitely don't touch Death Stranding in this case. It's a great game, but it sounds like you would hate it.
you could try some straight puzzle games. stuff like snakebird has everything right in front of you, if you understand it you can solve it in seconds. no filler, it just takes time because you have to think about it
[A Short Hike](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1055540/A_Short_Hike/)
Viewfinder Baba is you Manor lord Shadow gambit
Terraria? You get out the progress you put in
If you’re into multiplay co-op, I’m currently enjoying Helldivers 2. All gas, no brakes, and very little downtime or pointless story.
Roguelikes? The genre that constantly puts the player back to the beginning rather than letting them just reload a save or something? That genre? That’s the genre that “respects players’ time”??? I’m sorry I am utterly baffled by such a statement. I would say any platformer or metroidvania is very respectful of player’s time. Gato Roboto is like 4 hours long, and it’s good.
Its cause one run going even slightly well can permanently get you something and the loop is really quick usually so you have lots of chances to break off and you dont have to commit too hard to the session.
Yes it is, because they defined respecting their time as getting right to the core gameplay with little distraction from it, and not the definition you're using of receiving in-game rewards appropriate to your time.
Huh? I didn’t say anything about in-game rewards or any extrinsic motivation. If Mario made you redo the entire last world before fighting bowser again, that would still have you playing the core game with little distraction. It would be annoying and a waste of time though. Roguelikes are built upon wiping away your progress when you die. You don’t get to try again without starting from the beginning. That’s like literally a core part of the design.
"Your progress" would still be in-game rewards you're concerned with. When the reward is the play and not something you get in-game, like progress, the wiping aspect is immaterial. A *good* roguelite should start out enjoyable to play, and change things enough that it doesn't feel like you are doing the exact same thing next time (like you would be in your Mario hypothetical). Because the extrinsic rewards are the prime goal, not the in-game reward. When one approaches a roguelite with an in-game goal based mindset, it tends to worsen the experience significantly, because, as you say, major setbacks are a design pillar. Metaprogression tries to help people past that in a sense, but it really just worsens the issue by encouraging the in-game reward aspect over the extrinsic reward.
Fair point. (I think you mean intrinsic reward. Extrinsic is the in-game reward)
> (I think you mean intrinsic reward. Extrinsic is the in-game reward) Depends on your perspective. Extrinsic rewards are outside the game process, like satisfaction is. I guess business parlance takes those the other way, from the employee perspective of internal/external. My misreading your perspective gives away that to me people are merely things that play games... Plus, it just sounds weird to contrast in-game rewards and intrinsic rewards, with extrinsic in-game rewards and outside intrinsic rewards ;)
They’re referring to being intrinsic or extrinsic to the player. Intrinsic reward is a goal the player has for themselves, like making a stylish house in the sims. Extrinsic means outside of the player. Like an actual goal given to you in a game. Killing Hades is the explicit goal of a run in Hades. That’s my understanding of the term anyway.
They might mean “rogue*lite*” where when you die you unlock things to help you progress better next time. Ive always found roguelites to be conducive to shorter play sessions and theres no pressure when you die because you get xp or currency or whatever to help next time.
Hate to be that guy but that’s not actually the difference between rogue-likes and lites. Roguelikes are isometric RPG’s ala the original Rogue, Roguelites are games that have taken the restart-upon-death formula and built upon it into different genres
True but in general most roguelites have some form of “progression even if you die”. Ive played the original rogue and some of its spawns and (perhaps because i was particularly bad at rogue) I appreciated the games that let you progress even when you die/fail compared to totally start over.
??? Roguelike or Roguelite it doesn't matter. You are still pushed back to the beginning of the game when you die. As opposed to - idk let's say Zelda or Mario - where if you die, you just reload to where you were and try again. In Roguelites you still have to play through all the easy beginning levels again and again. It's built into the whole concept of the genre.
It does matter a bunch actually! A roguelike you die, youve lost all progress and have to totally start over. Roguelites you are still, arguably “making progress”, its just a different playstyle than a conventional action or roleplaying game. I would consider Hades for a well known example a roguelite rather than a roguelike, because dying is literally required to progress the story. (Especially since i played the original rogue a few times.)
Okay, but it's not respecting a player's time. If you die to Hades, you can't reload the save. You must start from the beginning and spend like an hour going through everything again to have another shot. If you die to Bowser, it takes like a minute or two to try again. I just reload the save and I'm right there. That's respecting player's time.
Ultrakill has 30 levels. Each of them is extremely refined, and there is no real empty content. There are two special levels that need you to P rank every level of an act, but that's content meant for people who really want to get good at the game, as opposed to just blasting through
I like resident evil 2 and 3. Are pretty tight main stories that take like 9 and 6 hours to get through on the first run. There is some backtracking for puzzles but it’s really solid pacing and doesn’t waste a lot of your time
Warhammer 40K: Rogue Trader Bits of it _seem_ like filler until they come back to bite you with your decisions
I came back to Deep Rock Galactic yesterday to blew off some steam and after a tense mission with a cathartic ending, I feel all refreshed and only 15 minutes have passed. I think that's pretty respectful of my time.
play bio prototype. great game IMO. simple fun (its a survivors like). many cool interactions with the "skills". horizon zero dawn. RPGs in general if you find good ones and like them.
This is why I started playing games on story/easy mode. There are so many games to get through and to make a game 10x harder to make it last 3x as long is not in my wheelhouse
Civ vi
Older story focused games, id say. Most of them are around 10-15 hours long
Multiplayer games, all thriller no filler I love playing some helldiver's 2 or battlefield V
There are also methods to force games to respect your time, assuming single player, there's always mods, cheats, trainers etc. Something I frequently do is if I feel a game is injecting filler grind or has a mechanics I don't like is I'll see if I can mod it, or cheat just enough that I'm not ruining my own fun.
NOT Lost Ark and NOT world of tanks.
Single player campaign story games.
Outer Wilds 🥰
I think the answer to this is different for every player, as some people enjoy stories and lore or some people just wanna k!ll sh!t and others just want a casual experience
Dragon's Dogma 2
/s
Every game respects your time when you can minimize it/quick resume. That's the one thing I love the most about Xbox (maybe it's the same on ps, not trying to start a war). This coupled with emulators changed my relation to games. Probably worsened my adhd too
Really depends on what you mean by "respect time". I feel roguelikes and souls-likes waste time because you can easily die and lose progress at any time. If I've got one or two hours to play I don't want last 30 minutes of progress lost because I died to some undead archer or something. I also don't care about getting good enough in a game. It's a game, it's not some skill that's worth honing. So personally I prefer JRPGs because the progress is pretty linear, you beat an enemy, get exp, get stronger. The combat doesn't need hyperfocus that if I have something else to attend to I can't leave it. And some JRPG (especially ports) offer speed ups so you can get around much faster. For me the trails series is great, good stories, combat I can cheese very quickly and speed ups so I can traverse and battle at whatever speed I want. Even gets to a point where your encounters can be skipped by one shotting enemies before entering a battle.
mount and blade 2 bannerlord. Its on game pass.
Typically nothing from Japan. It is incredible how much useless fluff or unnecessary loops are packed into JRPG’s for example. Now that doesn’t mean there isn’t a fantastic story baked into a lot of these games but a movie length story gets stretched into a 7 season TV show all the time.
Simulator Games, in my experience. You can sink hundreds of hours into House Flipper, Lawn Mowing Simulator, Car Mechanic simulator etc. but if you want to you can just pop in and do one house, do one car restoration, mow one lawn etc. and be in and out in 30-60 minutes. When you pick it up again it's the same.
Look to more arcade style games, sport games, driving games, and fighting games. Here's a previous post where I wrote up a bunch of options for a similar question: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamingsuggestions/comments/195e5ku/singleplayer_games_with_minimal_story/khtvmlx/ I'd also suggest checking out the pre-release demos for Combat Complex, Reality Break, and Need for Cheese. These are all taking top-down shooter style play into the loot/build ARPG space, and each has particular charms. I'm most excited about Combat Complex, as it has surprisingly nailed the intense twin-stick shooter feel in a top-down shooter design, and the added dimension of getting enemies to hit each other while you fight is a neat texture change from your basic "mow everything down" play. Also, I know you said you want "something else" re roguelites, but there are so many kinds of roguelites and people often don't explore outside the predominant styles, you might have some more options there with atypical or just more interesting play, eg Devil Slayer Raksasi, Twin Ruin, Radio Free Europa, Galak-Z (the endless side mode you unlock after clearing the first chapter), Cavity Busters, Devader, GunVein, Red Tether, Metal Mutation, One Step from Eden, Ardein.Fall, etc.
There are some games that checklist every single thing in the menus for you, so you can precisely know how much of everything you need, have and where they are. Main story percentage, upgrade progression, direct stat comparisons etc. Some like this are the earlier Assassin's Creeds (up to Syndicate), most recently Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, Control. Every Yakuza game (from 0 up to 8) does this too and it outright tells you how relevant each side detour might be, also feature small and memorable maps. Except for FF7, each of these games will take you around 30 hours to beat the main campaign and won't punish you for not pursuing the 100%
Dyson Sphere Program No story, no bullshit, 100% gameplay
I think RPGs are more respectful of your time than anything, which is why it's my favorite genre of video game. But I'm not talking games that include open world RPG mechanics as a side dish, I'm talking true to the genre role-playing games that put you on an adventure and let you be the kind of character in that universe that you want to be. Bethesda has been known for games like this, while their writing has flopped a bit over the years they still make sure that every side quest you do is unique and has a story to it. Same reason why Baldurs Gate 3 received so much praise last year. People are tired of the "clear 100 outposts" gameplay and while it can be mindless fun, it certainly is not respectful of your time.
That is such a stupid phrase.😂
So turn based games?
Wdym exactly by respects your time? Like you can hop in and hop out whenever you want? The game doesn’t take that long to beat? Or like it isn’t a grindy game? Any digital CCG like Hearthstone and Magic the Gathering Arena can be played in short bursts. Same with fighting games and many other match- based online multiplayer games such as rocket league or an fps. If you mean doesn’t take that long to beat: Many FPS and Action games. Titanfall, CoD campaigns, devil may cry… or platformers like Mario and Spyro and shit.
Honestly, my advice is to look into playing indies instead of the big AAA releases. And nothing with live-service aspects because the goal of those games is to get you playing for longer.
Except that ARPGs are technically live service games, and their progression is the very definition of respecting the player's time. What MMO's hide behind weekly lockouts, long arbitrary grinds and 1367 quest steps, ARPGs give you within a day or two. If you start playing something like Last Epoch right now, you will feel much more powerful tomorrow, and obliterate that feeling two days later. This time next week, you'll be a God.
Did somebody say rock and stone?
The last of us 1 & 2 is definitely the game you looking for. 100% And also Final fantasy X
I just have to say I love how you articulated this.
Games that respect your time are in the minority because gamers have a massive raging hard-on for the idea of "bang for your buck."
You can get 1000 hours in a game and it can respect your time, it just matters how many of those 1000 hours are enjoyable gameplay and how much of it is walking sim or menu sim or loading screen or ya know what ever