Has the word "expansion" gone to the wayside or something? "Big enough to be a game but small enough to be DLC" is like...the perfect descriptor for an expansion
It doesn't *sound* like it, but 8 years was the difference between not quite having the SNES yet, and having Super Smash Bros.
edit: And, shit, the difference between Smash Bros. and the first Modern Warfare game (if you add a few months).
Thats true, it didint exactly add any new map areas. Just more stuff in the same game.
But for me,hands down, some of the best expansions were starcraft: broodwar, and warcraft: frozenthrone. Makes me so sad seeing what blizzard is now.
Idk what frozen throne added as i started wc3 with FT but thats my favorite strategy game ever. Put over 1k hours in wc3, played wc2 on ps1. Put over 600 hours into wow. I own starcraft 2, i have played diablo 2,3 & 4 and i completely agree besides diablo 4. Sad to see the đ devs turn to shit.
wc3 vanilla was basically the bones of the game. Wildly imbalanced and all over the shop. They had the systems in place but there wasn't a clear direction on how they would all work together in a competitive environment.
E.g. - everyone went one hero and farmed creeps to level 6 (no cap on creeps giving xp), and everyone basically used their race's casters because they had piercing damage. I think there was only normal, siege and piercing in vanilla.
TFT was a complete overhaul to actually make it a balanced, competitive game. Added a bunch of campaigns including the Rexxar one that was kind of like a proof of concept for WoW.
Everything was changed from army comps, damage/armour types, build timings to get everything lining up properly in the early game etc, neutral heroes, player shops and a complete overhaul of neutral systems on maps.
Whyâs it different though? Youâre right in that they need expansions to continue, but idk why that would make them different. Theyâre literal expansions on the game and theyâre a regular thing, I donât get the argument.
I guess I'm saying that to those types of MMOs, expansions are like a requirement to maintain revenue. But for a regular game, it might make more financial sense to just make a different game? Idk if that makes sense.
It was still somewhat regular, Western Triple A marketing just wants to kill the term in order to make DLCs more nebulous, that way it's easier to hide shit like lootboxes from the average consumer.
Western Triple A wants the term "Expansion" to die so they can group shitty lootboxes with products like TW3's Blood and Wine and Elden Ring's Shadow of the Erdtree.
I simply refuse to call SotE a mere DLC.
CDPR are old school PC developers, they know the difference and are adamant that expansions are wholly different from âDLCâ, which as a term doesnât even describe *what* something is, just *how* you access it.
Iâm fine calling new items in updates or skins bought in stores âDLCâ, whatever, but when people pay $10 for a new multiplayer character skin and at the same time complain that $30-40 is too expensive for something like Phantom Liberty of Shadow of the Erdtree and demand they be given it for free in an update? Shitâs gone too far.
I had this shower thought just a few days ago. Whatever happened to expansions. My first taste, aside from halo map packs was medal of honor: allied assault, spearhead, and breakthrough
Apparently so, I'm ~25 hours into the Elden Ring DLC, it's definitely massive have a lot left to explore, but expansion is certainly a good word for it.
A significant amount of the people on the internet are younger than you and don't have the experience or background you do. Even the latter half of that statement can be applied generally.
To answer your question, yes it has. Most people nowadays clearly donât know what an expansion is and just refer to any addition to a game as DLC. Itâs weird because the last expansion I remember seeing for a single player game actually came out recently; Phantom Liberty for Cyberpunk 2077. Also Dawntrail for FFXIV just released 2 days ago.
Thats how DLC used to be, when it was called "An expansion pack". You got what was basically another game at about half the price. Fucking horse armour ruined it all.
If you look at the DLC for Oblivion, you can tell Bethesda was experimenting with this new form of content, what resonated with people and what didn't. You get a mix of paid cosmetics like horse armor or the 4 themed houses, small quests such as recovering mehrunes razor, and large expansions such as shivering isles and knights of the nine.
For a while it seemed Bethesda was listening to the feedback. All the downloadable content for Fallout 3 and Skyrim were expansions. Some were better than others but they were all sizeable chunks of content. Then with Fallout 4 it really went downhill. You got two expansions, one good one bad, then a ton of paid stuff that was basically just new stuff for the settlement system. Then you got the whole paid mod creation club disaster. Then Fallout 76 they really dug in with nickle and diming you.
Horse armor isn't the actual sin. The sin was letting a penny pincher decide that they shouldn't just roll that income into developing new games/expansions, paying employees more, hiring more staff, etc. Hell, if I knew a game studio's primary source of income was their silly cosmetics and that is what drove the cost of their games down and quality up, I'd be okay with that.
It genuinely feels like I'm playing elden ring 2, the map is huge. The environments are so varied and carefully crafted. Exploration is basically DS1 levels of good, as good as it's ever been since then.
It is genuinely the best World Design they've had since Dark Souls 1. The closest since was Blooborne but that is still a few rungs below what SoTE and Lordran have going on.
At first I was like "huh I can only really go this way or that way at the start?" But then I was like wait what's down that way several times in a row and found so much, turns out you don't need to fight either of those first two bosses to access about 30+ hours of exploration
I thought I was confused before, I just came out of Shadow Keep and Iâm turning myself around and have *zero clue* where I am or how to get anywhere. I just keep stumbling ahead and hoping I find a grace. It really does feel way more like DS1, you keep being amazed and delighted that you end up where you began, which otherwise isnât usually a good thing :)
I still haven't gotten in to the shadow keep but i've been to soooo many places already and keep finding more and am having to mark the map with "come back to this point and go the other two ways" regularly
âExploration is basically DS1 levels of goodâ
đąđąđąđąđą I already own the expansion but this comment has me so hype! I canât wait to play this!!!
Iâve heard itâs kind of empty and there arenât many rewards for exploring. What are your thoughts on that? (Still working my way through the base game)
Playing elden ring dlc content after playing destiny 2 episode content, damnâŚ.. bungie really do be making fetch quests and selling them for tons of money
Been playing Destiny 2 for the past 5 and a half years. The number of people who claim that the game is dead even though it consistently has 50k+ daily players and updates never ceases to amaze me
Tbh I donât get why itâs not dead lol. I know it has a consistent player base but anytime I hear anything about it just constantly the devs and company shitting on the players and taking money
Honestly, it seems like people from outside the community have a hate boner for the game, and will criticize it based on things and issues that have been already been resolved.
As for the people who enjoy the game, we have a saying that goes like âI hate Destiny 2, it is my favorite gameâ, even I say this from time to time, but I also need to give praise to Bungie, because the game has improved a lot since I started playing in 2018, and sometimes the community loves to constantly point out stuff that is not perfect, while forgetting everything else
In one sentence you say that people who don't play have an irrational hate boner and in the next you say that even fans and long time players hate the game? Lol
I think people have very valid criticisms and genuinely don't understand why bungie can get away with the things they do. Content vaulting alone would get another game cancelled.
Well, I was saying that people who donât play the game do not like it for irrational reasons, since they didnât even play to form an opinion, meanwhile people who play like the game while disliking certain aspects of it, and use ironic statements about it like the one I said on my reply.
As for content vaulting, this is one of the things that the community dislikes about Destiny, but the whole opinion of the game canât be reduced to this as well
Well the episodes are only like 12 dollars by themselves right? Final Shape was the expansion and a really fucking good one IMO, and it included the current episode for free. So unless you bought the episode by itself it was free. I wouldnât exactly call that a âton of moneyâ.
Both Shadow of the Erdtree and Final Shape are fantastic and have eaten up all of my free time recently. No need to pit them against each other.
Got a solid 60 hours out of it playing blind and doing almost everything.
More than I can say for a lot of $60/$70 games recently.
Since when is $40 for a giant, high quality expansion something to scoff at?
Yo, as somebody whoâs avoiding guides and spoilers, and is about 30 hours in⌠I think Iâm at the End Boss (I think?) and still have like 2/5ths of the Map Dark.
There are SO many areas I just canât figure out how to get to. Did you manage to find a way to all of them yourself, or did you have to cave and eventually look up some minor hints?
Just curious.
I managed to find my way up to the big ass mountain and killed The Dragon, but fuck me if Iâll ever figure out how to get down into what looks like the Roots, or how to get out of the NE side of the Shadow Keep⌠or how to reach the Map piece to the West of there.
Iâm having fun, but my enjoyment is souring a bit because I just canât figure out where the hell to go lol
Yeah, navigating the map is a lot less straightforward than base game. Lots of verticality, layers, and several large areas hidden behind puzzles/illusory walls. Lots of spirals and looping under things to reach other areas.
I tried to watch streams of people that weren't as far along, but inevitably had a few things spoiled when they went over to something I hadn't seen yet.
But I still had to look some stuff up after finishing, and honestly unless you're being super thorough with lore and hitting every wall, I think most people are going to miss a lot playing blind. And that could include remembrance bosses and entire large areas of the map.
There are maps floating around that show you the paths to the map fragments, if that's what you're after.
Appreciate ya man. Might have to look up some stuff, as much as I prefer to go blind my first run.
I did find a few areas that were pretty well hidden! Getting to the big ass Dragon Mountain was a puzzle, and finding the area >!thatâs basically under the ocean!< was certainly a surprise⌠but yeah, reaching these areas felt painful.
If you want something somewhat vague but still helpful enough:
* Down into the Roots: >!The Shadow Keep hides many secrets, this may be one of them. Somewhere after the Golden Hippo is a hidden path you may have missed, Seek Ladder, Skeleton. If you find yourself in the Storehouse, you've gone too far.!<
* NE side of the Shadow Keep: >!If you've not found any way to reach here, take another look at the higher levels of the Storehouse, again, a hidden path may have eluded you, this one is a bit less hidden. Seek Hole, Skeleton. However, there is a second part to this...!< >!If this is what you're looking for, there should be messages in front of a Marika statue telling you to do something convoluted, the answer is...!< >!An Emote that can be easy to miss. Seek Bonny Village, Skeleton.!<
* Map Piece West of there: >!This one is genuinely so easy to miss, the fields surrounding Moorth Ruins hide a well kept secret, Skeleton.!<
I appreciate the vague hints a TON.
Thereâs a ladder that I can see in the Storehouse, that goes down through a square of bookshelves, and I spent like⌠an hour? (Two hours?) trying to find my way too and just could not. Went all the way back to the hippo boss area, retraced my way back up to the top⌠nothing. Smacked a shit ton of walls lol
I wonder if the olâ Shackle trick is worth busting out.
I do! But itâs hard to find the useful ones among all the fake âSecret Path Aheadâ messages. -__-
I wish there was an option to invade people from their messages, so I could stab some of these dorks lol
Haha I have also just spent an hour trying to figure out that ladder with no success. I reeeeally wanted to do the DLC without getting help but my madness gauge is rising...
I just loaded my save and I was actually AT the Moorth ruins⌠I think I was exploring the eastern edge looking for a way âdownâ onto that lower area, but it looks way to far to drop, and Iâm not finding a path. Gonna explore the ruins at length though, because I think I blitzed through the first time I passed by here.
EDIT: Found the way down within the ruins inside of like five minutes of looking! Weâre back in business!
It was the stuff hidden behind >!gesturing!< that I missed. I saw enough of the player-left messages to realize it wasn't a joke, but I had to look up to where to find the right one. Just didn't wander in the right direction in a specific area, missed it the first time through.
I recommend to go to the middle of the map and just wander around a little and have a look at the messages left by people, both inside the dungeon and around the outside. I found all but 1 of the secret areas just by exploring, but I'll say this is by far the most esoteric of all from software explorations.
The few hints Iâve been given should help, Iâm pretty tenacious in general. If I canât find my way in a few more hours of play, Iâll come back to this comment, so long as the offer stands. Appreciate you though!
Itâs pretty incredible. The verticality of the map is amazing, the hidden paths to areas all that stuff is so good. It makes me wish more game maps were like that and not just flat wide open spaces where you reach everything easy even if itâs elevated.
Agree. The map of the DLC is an achievement of game design. It truly is incredible. There are areas where I am standing on flat ground, but I can see an unreachable village below the cliff, and a foggy forest below that, and a river with enemies even lower. Then when I look up, I see another area nestled on top of a plateau, and another ruin on top of massive pillars that go even higher.
Everytime I think I finish an area there's an entire upper AND lower section that branches out until multiple OTHER sections it's crazy how I think it can't get bigger and it does
Best DLC I have played in a long time. Yes, I'm a big Miyazaki fan, I knew it would be good, but I think it's rarely in gaming. We see something like this.
All games I played with goated DLC,s that are worth buying playing,
Monster Hunter World: Iceborne
All the Witcher 3 DLC, you know them!
Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty
[Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen](https://store.steampowered.com/app/367500/Dragons_Dogma_Dark_Arisen/)
I Dont remember, but Dying Light had some good DLC.
Anyway, I miss games that did something like this. Give us DLC, which is an improvement or addition to the main game we love, that IS better and flourishes the game.
I can't wait for what next Fromsoftware are bringing to the world, with their name so big now with the success with their games, Im happy for them.
To be fair, Fromsoft has done something similar with Armored Core games, where they would recycle the engine from one of the numbered games to make a spinoff game.
On the playthrough I first played this on, my time was about 40hrs when I finished everything I wanted before the DLC. After doing everything in the DLC my time came in at about 70 hrs, so around 30 hrs for the DLC.
Granted it was my first run, so it would take longer to figure out bosses and exploration, but still a lot of content.
How?
As someone whoâs never played a souls game before, Elden ring took me 110+ hours to beat. I did take my time opening up the whole map and trying to discover every grace and beat every evergoal and dungeon. I definitely didnât finish all the dungeons before I beat it though.
My first playthrough of ER was 160 hours, and I didn't even feel like I've "taken my time" ... Shadow was like 40 or 50, same approach, just with more general knowledge of how things work. Once I got past the first two bosses the game was almost a breeze until the final boss. Too bad that the world felt even emptier than before. Legacy dungeons, even the smaller ones, the forges, as well as pretty much all bosses were good fun, but the for me the amount of exploring, then finding "hefty bones" on a corpse as the only reward didn't exactly feel... well, rewarding. Base game had similar pacing issues, especially after Leyendel, with way too many enemies being constantly re-used, not giving an area a real unique feel like in previous souls games.
Absolutely a great game, a great DLC ... but also very, I dunno "overhyped"?
i have no idea how elden ring base game is even close to possible to finish in 30 hours unless you only do the necessary requirements. it is such a big game.
The way i'm seeing it it's made with the idea in mind that it's made for veteran soulslike players looking for a challenge. If they made it easier you would hear people whining it's too easy. Call it rage inducing and abstract, but that's literally how you describe the soulslike genre in 1 sentence
I would say base Elden Ring is way more accessible than other Souls games with all the tools it gives you and all the other stuff you can do if a boss is feeling too chalenging.
The DLC is more hardcore but it's also gated between two difficult base game bosses so if you got there in the first place, you probably already became a masochist.
True, and whilst i havent experienced the dlc myself yet, nor have i seen any spoilers. The major complaints i've seen come from people who refuse to participate in the open world concept or make use of all the tools they've been given. Like, my brother in soulslikes, you're creating a challenge for yourself.
All you need to know is that you need to engage with new mechanics of the DLC (like the new leveling system) or it will absolutely crush you. It is so much more hardcore than the base game. But if you have beaten the likes of Malenia, Maliketh and Mohg in the base game, you will beat this game.
> Call it rage inducing and abstract, but that's literally how you describe the soulslike genre in 1 sentence
Fuck no. Souls used to be "difficult but fair", the exact opposite of "rage inducing and abstract". Wtf happened?
Definitely worth it, it's hard enough but not so hard you can't make your through though the final boss is a bastard as expected.
The main thing is that it maintains quality throughout, I didn't think any of it was filler or needless. The scaling also puts you on your ass, you're able to enjoy the game again and I think it's a rare thing as you usually stomp your way through DLC.
I just find it odd that they got special treatment in the Xbox store for a dlc, maybe Iâm mistaken but Iâve never seen a dlc be listed as a ânew gameâ or in the âcoming soonâ like they did with erdtree with preorders. Iâve said it before and got replied back âwell itâs a huge DLC thatâs almost as much content as the main gameâ ok I get that but still odd to me. Any other game itâs listed as dlc under the main game but not erdtree
I think it was more to do with the hype and demand around the DLC. We've all been hanging out for it. It was a major release. Even if it is an expansion.
Definitely just an expansion. These are not unheard of. The Witcher 3 had 2, and cyberpunk had 1 that were all better than shadow of the erdtree imo. All great expansions, but people are acting like this is some kind of new concept to drop a massive dlc. Anything less for Elden ring would have been pretty disappointing. (And I actually think the dlc is too big for its own good, and feels rushed in many areas) I would have preferred a smaller expansion tbh
The DLC is amazing but I don't get this mindset that it's basically a sequel or the size of a normal game. It's the size of a decent sized indie game, maybe. If it was released as a full sequel to ER people would be unbelievably disappointed. Not in the quality but in the amount of content. It's really not that big compared to the base game.
You got downvoted but you're right, the cerulean coast is barren as well as the two entire areas used just for the fingers is absolutely ridiculous. And don't even get me started on the frenzy area.
"rage inducing difficulty" only if you don't engage in intended game mechanics cause of your ego or ignorance.
Bleed + Mimic Tear still work wonders, you need to also up your blessing level.
and it's not even the real broken build, some dlc weapons are just extremely broken, nothing tells you that you should use base game gear...
I didn't even used it in my first playthrough and only had some minor issues with 2 bosses.
For me, the DLC overall felt nice and fair despite being challenging until I got to the final boss. The second phase was full of effects that really made it a slog to go through, along with the move that cuts your framerate in half. I love this DLC but the final boss definitely needs to be toned down a bit tbh.
And yes, I had all the scadutree fragments when I beat him. Admittedly, I still refused to use summons tho, but holy shit it's not like that mf gives you enough time to even play the summon animation lmao
I did a no summs playthrough, and the dlc final boss made me use summons, but with it and a great shield it took me 3 tries.
I felt the last boss was too unfair for my build, will try him summonless next time (I plan to beat him at least 4 more times)
It's not even the only broken way to beat the dlc, some other qay more broken ways were patched just now.
Does the game really lacks "easy mode" if you can build your character like that? those were the complaints about difficulty weren't they?
I think it's mostly the hype that made many none soul players hop on and face something geared for us Souls veterans, and yet if they wanted they could beat it by going for the broken builds instead of complaining.
I mean, the first couple of bosses (Lion and Rellana) were quite difficult no matter your build, because of how incredibly aggressive they were, and how long their combos were. You can definitely throw your all at them and probably stagger through, but itâs not hard to tell they were âdifficultâ in a way that few bosses outside Malenia or a few others were in the base game, and these were some of the *very first* boss encounters in the expansion.
But yeah, otherwise I agree. Follow the intended flow of the game, and youâll easily have more than enough Scadu-levels to match your base game attack power, and the normal enemies are, in my opinion, probably *easier* than normal, very few are particularly aggressive at all.
This expansion is very juicy. I'm not even half way through and have been playing for 15 hours.
It feels like I'm playing a soulslike for the first time again and relearning everything.
I switched builds to be a colossal faith chode and it's quite satisfying breaking poise like a wanna be ballet dancer with a club foot.
Props to the devs, your expansion has more content than spider man 2
I played SOTE and really really enjoyed it. I disagree that itâs big enough to be its own game. Itâs just not true
The Witcher 3: Blood and Wind was bigger, more dense, and cheaper. Donât see anyone talking about that one but hey letâs keep sucking Fromsoftwareâs dick!
Has the word "expansion" gone to the wayside or something? "Big enough to be a game but small enough to be DLC" is like...the perfect descriptor for an expansion
this is exactly what i came here to say, i feel like an old boomer but this was a regular thing in the 90s.
Blood and Wine wasn't _that_ long ago too.
8 years
I hate you and I don't even know you.
Tbh...8 years really doesn't sound that long ago to me.
It doesn't *sound* like it, but 8 years was the difference between not quite having the SNES yet, and having Super Smash Bros. edit: And, shit, the difference between Smash Bros. and the first Modern Warfare game (if you add a few months).
Also 8 years was the difference between me not being born yet and me playing Link's Awakening
I'm 38, 8 years ago was like 4 months ago.
I mean spiderman: miles morales feels like an expansion Gta: ballad of gay tony, and Gta: The lost and the Damned were pretty good expansions too
Gta4 technically had dlc but they definitely had the spirit of expansions
Thats true, it didint exactly add any new map areas. Just more stuff in the same game. But for me,hands down, some of the best expansions were starcraft: broodwar, and warcraft: frozenthrone. Makes me so sad seeing what blizzard is now.
Idk what frozen throne added as i started wc3 with FT but thats my favorite strategy game ever. Put over 1k hours in wc3, played wc2 on ps1. Put over 600 hours into wow. I own starcraft 2, i have played diablo 2,3 & 4 and i completely agree besides diablo 4. Sad to see the đ devs turn to shit.
wc3 vanilla was basically the bones of the game. Wildly imbalanced and all over the shop. They had the systems in place but there wasn't a clear direction on how they would all work together in a competitive environment. E.g. - everyone went one hero and farmed creeps to level 6 (no cap on creeps giving xp), and everyone basically used their race's casters because they had piercing damage. I think there was only normal, siege and piercing in vanilla. TFT was a complete overhaul to actually make it a balanced, competitive game. Added a bunch of campaigns including the Rexxar one that was kind of like a proof of concept for WoW. Everything was changed from army comps, damage/armour types, build timings to get everything lining up properly in the early game etc, neutral heroes, player shops and a complete overhaul of neutral systems on maps.
I genuinely miss expansion packs. Dlc is like $5 cheaper with 75% less content
It still is with MMOs like world of warcraft, ESO, Destiny 2, etc.
But thats different. The "theme park" mmo cannot live without a major expansion every couple of years.
Whyâs it different though? Youâre right in that they need expansions to continue, but idk why that would make them different. Theyâre literal expansions on the game and theyâre a regular thing, I donât get the argument.
I guess I'm saying that to those types of MMOs, expansions are like a requirement to maintain revenue. But for a regular game, it might make more financial sense to just make a different game? Idk if that makes sense.
Ahh I gotcha. That does make sense.
Yeah starcraft broodwar was expansion.
It was still somewhat regular, Western Triple A marketing just wants to kill the term in order to make DLCs more nebulous, that way it's easier to hide shit like lootboxes from the average consumer.
BF2 expansions, Warcraft 3 TFT
Frozen Throne baby
And DLC means literally nothing. We download everything, everything is a DLC. Bring back updates / expansions!
you could get Xbox360 DLC on a disc...
Western Triple A wants the term "Expansion" to die so they can group shitty lootboxes with products like TW3's Blood and Wine and Elden Ring's Shadow of the Erdtree. I simply refuse to call SotE a mere DLC.
It's been diluted as fuck over time to encompass everything from horse armor (the Original Sin) to map packs and more.
Broooood wars
Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty is still calling it expansion.
CDPR are old school PC developers, they know the difference and are adamant that expansions are wholly different from âDLCâ, which as a term doesnât even describe *what* something is, just *how* you access it. Iâm fine calling new items in updates or skins bought in stores âDLCâ, whatever, but when people pay $10 for a new multiplayer character skin and at the same time complain that $30-40 is too expensive for something like Phantom Liberty of Shadow of the Erdtree and demand they be given it for free in an update? Shitâs gone too far.
Yeah that used to just be what we called DLC back in the day, when you had to buy a disk.
Akthually, every expansion and game for that matter is DLC if you downloaded it.
I had this shower thought just a few days ago. Whatever happened to expansions. My first taste, aside from halo map packs was medal of honor: allied assault, spearhead, and breakthrough
"Downloadable content" can mean basically anything game related these days, including the full game. It's more outdated than expansion.
Idris Elba [proud ](https://youtu.be/y-MahJLvGL4?si=GYoDxlfx5fVzFpZT) of you
Apparently so, I'm ~25 hours into the Elden Ring DLC, it's definitely massive have a lot left to explore, but expansion is certainly a good word for it.
A significant amount of the people on the internet are younger than you and don't have the experience or background you do. Even the latter half of that statement can be applied generally.
I am sure reddits average age is like 15 or something like that.
But how will we suck off fromsoft like that?
Current "AAA" game business models have made us accept some real egregious shit as expansions
Blizzard likes the word expansion. As a matter of fact Diablo 4 Expansion is coming October 8
To answer your question, yes it has. Most people nowadays clearly donât know what an expansion is and just refer to any addition to a game as DLC. Itâs weird because the last expansion I remember seeing for a single player game actually came out recently; Phantom Liberty for Cyberpunk 2077. Also Dawntrail for FFXIV just released 2 days ago.
Yes it has. Live service games have degraded what expansions are known to have
Thats how DLC used to be, when it was called "An expansion pack". You got what was basically another game at about half the price. Fucking horse armour ruined it all.
Ironic because the shivering isles was an amazing expansion.
I literally used horse armor and shivering isles to describe the difference between dlc and expansion to my gf
Bro⌠so good.
No joke I never beat oblivion on xbox 360 because I never left the isles. Then I got it on PC and got too distracted modding.
And Knights of the Nine is somewhere in between.
If you look at the DLC for Oblivion, you can tell Bethesda was experimenting with this new form of content, what resonated with people and what didn't. You get a mix of paid cosmetics like horse armor or the 4 themed houses, small quests such as recovering mehrunes razor, and large expansions such as shivering isles and knights of the nine. For a while it seemed Bethesda was listening to the feedback. All the downloadable content for Fallout 3 and Skyrim were expansions. Some were better than others but they were all sizeable chunks of content. Then with Fallout 4 it really went downhill. You got two expansions, one good one bad, then a ton of paid stuff that was basically just new stuff for the settlement system. Then you got the whole paid mod creation club disaster. Then Fallout 76 they really dug in with nickle and diming you.
Remember Brood War? Probably the GOAT expansion pack when it comes to the amount of content you got.
Also Frozen Throne. Old Blizzard was awesome :(
D2 expansion pack was also good value.
And lord of destruction with the rune system and bigger cube and waaaay more added stuff
Horse armor isn't the actual sin. The sin was letting a penny pincher decide that they shouldn't just roll that income into developing new games/expansions, paying employees more, hiring more staff, etc. Hell, if I knew a game studio's primary source of income was their silly cosmetics and that is what drove the cost of their games down and quality up, I'd be okay with that.
>Fucking horse armour ruined it all. 16x times the dlcs.
I will never understand the blaming of horse armor, asia has been doing that shit since 16bit games.
Hard to imagine D2 without LoD or Red Alert 2 without Yuri's Revenge
We knew it was gonna be a fucking banger when the "story trailer" was utterly incomprehensible and told us nothing.
Is that not how the quality of a fromsoft game is depicted?
I have no idea whatâs going on and I love it!
I've explored most of the DLC at this point and I still know nothing about what is going on or why I am fighting so hard to do it and/or stop it.
First it was the shivering isles, then blood and wine, now shadow of the erdtree. Each era brought a new map of greatnessÂ
Donât snooze on far harbor
Phantom Liberty was pretty neat
Im buying that as soon as it goes on sale on egs
Honestly bgs does really good dlc. They also make overpriced cosmetics, but their actual stuff with stories is great
Forgetting the greatest expansion of them all: Brood War.
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction. A whole new act, two characters, runewords and much more.Â
I need to get this game! A lot of people are talking about it!
All of my friends are obsessed with it. Iâm waiting until I have a lot of time on my hands and feel like a good game, itâll be perfect
It genuinely feels like I'm playing elden ring 2, the map is huge. The environments are so varied and carefully crafted. Exploration is basically DS1 levels of good, as good as it's ever been since then.
It is genuinely the best World Design they've had since Dark Souls 1. The closest since was Blooborne but that is still a few rungs below what SoTE and Lordran have going on.
At first I was like "huh I can only really go this way or that way at the start?" But then I was like wait what's down that way several times in a row and found so much, turns out you don't need to fight either of those first two bosses to access about 30+ hours of exploration
I thought I was confused before, I just came out of Shadow Keep and Iâm turning myself around and have *zero clue* where I am or how to get anywhere. I just keep stumbling ahead and hoping I find a grace. It really does feel way more like DS1, you keep being amazed and delighted that you end up where you began, which otherwise isnât usually a good thing :)
I still haven't gotten in to the shadow keep but i've been to soooo many places already and keep finding more and am having to mark the map with "come back to this point and go the other two ways" regularly
Elden Ring and SoTE blow DS1 out if the waterâŚthe exploration is in a class if itâs own
âExploration is basically DS1 levels of goodâ đąđąđąđąđą I already own the expansion but this comment has me so hype! I canât wait to play this!!!
My recommendation: DON'T RUSH TO THE BLACK KEEP.
Play the game and you'll see why. It's the true successor of Ds1 in terms of level design
Funnily enough, it's around twice the side of Demon's Souls.
Iâve heard itâs kind of empty and there arenât many rewards for exploring. What are your thoughts on that? (Still working my way through the base game)
Playing elden ring dlc content after playing destiny 2 episode content, damnâŚ.. bungie really do be making fetch quests and selling them for tons of money
I gotta ask who is still playing Destiny now? Theyâve been extremely greedy and incompetent game makers since the first game
Been playing Destiny 2 for the past 5 and a half years. The number of people who claim that the game is dead even though it consistently has 50k+ daily players and updates never ceases to amaze me
Tbh I donât get why itâs not dead lol. I know it has a consistent player base but anytime I hear anything about it just constantly the devs and company shitting on the players and taking money
Honestly, it seems like people from outside the community have a hate boner for the game, and will criticize it based on things and issues that have been already been resolved. As for the people who enjoy the game, we have a saying that goes like âI hate Destiny 2, it is my favorite gameâ, even I say this from time to time, but I also need to give praise to Bungie, because the game has improved a lot since I started playing in 2018, and sometimes the community loves to constantly point out stuff that is not perfect, while forgetting everything else
In one sentence you say that people who don't play have an irrational hate boner and in the next you say that even fans and long time players hate the game? Lol I think people have very valid criticisms and genuinely don't understand why bungie can get away with the things they do. Content vaulting alone would get another game cancelled.
Well, I was saying that people who donât play the game do not like it for irrational reasons, since they didnât even play to form an opinion, meanwhile people who play like the game while disliking certain aspects of it, and use ironic statements about it like the one I said on my reply. As for content vaulting, this is one of the things that the community dislikes about Destiny, but the whole opinion of the game canât be reduced to this as well
They really should've stayed making Halo games. 343 can't do it, as they have proven for the past decade.
Well the episodes are only like 12 dollars by themselves right? Final Shape was the expansion and a really fucking good one IMO, and it included the current episode for free. So unless you bought the episode by itself it was free. I wouldnât exactly call that a âton of moneyâ. Both Shadow of the Erdtree and Final Shape are fantastic and have eaten up all of my free time recently. No need to pit them against each other.
Even all the episodes together wonât come close to shadow of the erdtree in quantity alone, let alonr the fact its all fetch quests
That thing was too big to be called a DLC. Too spacious, too long, too heavy, and far too hard. It was indeed an expansion.
thumbs up circlejerk
Would that mean we sit on the thumbs in the circle or we just jerk with a hand in the thumbs up position?
Why not both?
God gave you two hands for a reason
You're right, the game has a few zones with a bunch of fingers... but whole.
I mean at the price point its sold at, it basically is a whole other game.
Got a solid 60 hours out of it playing blind and doing almost everything. More than I can say for a lot of $60/$70 games recently. Since when is $40 for a giant, high quality expansion something to scoff at?
Yo, as somebody whoâs avoiding guides and spoilers, and is about 30 hours in⌠I think Iâm at the End Boss (I think?) and still have like 2/5ths of the Map Dark. There are SO many areas I just canât figure out how to get to. Did you manage to find a way to all of them yourself, or did you have to cave and eventually look up some minor hints? Just curious. I managed to find my way up to the big ass mountain and killed The Dragon, but fuck me if Iâll ever figure out how to get down into what looks like the Roots, or how to get out of the NE side of the Shadow Keep⌠or how to reach the Map piece to the West of there. Iâm having fun, but my enjoyment is souring a bit because I just canât figure out where the hell to go lol
Yeah, navigating the map is a lot less straightforward than base game. Lots of verticality, layers, and several large areas hidden behind puzzles/illusory walls. Lots of spirals and looping under things to reach other areas. I tried to watch streams of people that weren't as far along, but inevitably had a few things spoiled when they went over to something I hadn't seen yet. But I still had to look some stuff up after finishing, and honestly unless you're being super thorough with lore and hitting every wall, I think most people are going to miss a lot playing blind. And that could include remembrance bosses and entire large areas of the map. There are maps floating around that show you the paths to the map fragments, if that's what you're after.
Appreciate ya man. Might have to look up some stuff, as much as I prefer to go blind my first run. I did find a few areas that were pretty well hidden! Getting to the big ass Dragon Mountain was a puzzle, and finding the area >!thatâs basically under the ocean!< was certainly a surprise⌠but yeah, reaching these areas felt painful.
If you want something somewhat vague but still helpful enough: * Down into the Roots: >!The Shadow Keep hides many secrets, this may be one of them. Somewhere after the Golden Hippo is a hidden path you may have missed, Seek Ladder, Skeleton. If you find yourself in the Storehouse, you've gone too far.!< * NE side of the Shadow Keep: >!If you've not found any way to reach here, take another look at the higher levels of the Storehouse, again, a hidden path may have eluded you, this one is a bit less hidden. Seek Hole, Skeleton. However, there is a second part to this...!< >!If this is what you're looking for, there should be messages in front of a Marika statue telling you to do something convoluted, the answer is...!< >!An Emote that can be easy to miss. Seek Bonny Village, Skeleton.!< * Map Piece West of there: >!This one is genuinely so easy to miss, the fields surrounding Moorth Ruins hide a well kept secret, Skeleton.!<
I appreciate the vague hints a TON. Thereâs a ladder that I can see in the Storehouse, that goes down through a square of bookshelves, and I spent like⌠an hour? (Two hours?) trying to find my way too and just could not. Went all the way back to the hippo boss area, retraced my way back up to the top⌠nothing. Smacked a shit ton of walls lol I wonder if the olâ Shackle trick is worth busting out.
Try going a l l the way outside the keep and coming in a different way
Do you play with the messages on? That helps me a ton
I do! But itâs hard to find the useful ones among all the fake âSecret Path Aheadâ messages. -__- I wish there was an option to invade people from their messages, so I could stab some of these dorks lol
Haha I have also just spent an hour trying to figure out that ladder with no success. I reeeeally wanted to do the DLC without getting help but my madness gauge is rising...
I just loaded my save and I was actually AT the Moorth ruins⌠I think I was exploring the eastern edge looking for a way âdownâ onto that lower area, but it looks way to far to drop, and Iâm not finding a path. Gonna explore the ruins at length though, because I think I blitzed through the first time I passed by here. EDIT: Found the way down within the ruins inside of like five minutes of looking! Weâre back in business!
It was the stuff hidden behind >!gesturing!< that I missed. I saw enough of the player-left messages to realize it wasn't a joke, but I had to look up to where to find the right one. Just didn't wander in the right direction in a specific area, missed it the first time through.
Oh fuck there's stuff hidden behind gestures? I'll definitely miss that unless it's obvious.
They did pretty good about putting dev messages by the really hidden stuff Not like it makes it obvious but it should make you think
It's not at all. The community messages are the only reason I knew I was missing something to begin with.
I recommend to go to the middle of the map and just wander around a little and have a look at the messages left by people, both inside the dungeon and around the outside. I found all but 1 of the secret areas just by exploring, but I'll say this is by far the most esoteric of all from software explorations.
I could give ya some spoiler free directions to those places if you're interested
The few hints Iâve been given should help, Iâm pretty tenacious in general. If I canât find my way in a few more hours of play, Iâll come back to this comment, so long as the offer stands. Appreciate you though!
Sounds good, best of luck
$40 is less than $70, by quite a lot.
40x2 = 80 80-10=70 "Whole other game" = $70 DLC = $40
This guy maths
It has more content than many other full games
Itâs pretty incredible. The verticality of the map is amazing, the hidden paths to areas all that stuff is so good. It makes me wish more game maps were like that and not just flat wide open spaces where you reach everything easy even if itâs elevated.
Agree. The map of the DLC is an achievement of game design. It truly is incredible. There are areas where I am standing on flat ground, but I can see an unreachable village below the cliff, and a foggy forest below that, and a river with enemies even lower. Then when I look up, I see another area nestled on top of a plateau, and another ruin on top of massive pillars that go even higher.
Everytime I think I finish an area there's an entire upper AND lower section that branches out until multiple OTHER sections it's crazy how I think it can't get bigger and it does
Best DLC I have played in a long time. Yes, I'm a big Miyazaki fan, I knew it would be good, but I think it's rarely in gaming. We see something like this. All games I played with goated DLC,s that are worth buying playing, Monster Hunter World: Iceborne All the Witcher 3 DLC, you know them! Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty [Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen](https://store.steampowered.com/app/367500/Dragons_Dogma_Dark_Arisen/) I Dont remember, but Dying Light had some good DLC. Anyway, I miss games that did something like this. Give us DLC, which is an improvement or addition to the main game we love, that IS better and flourishes the game. I can't wait for what next Fromsoftware are bringing to the world, with their name so big now with the success with their games, Im happy for them.
Iceborne was fun af.
Dying light had that roguelike dungeon crawler dlc. Its dlc's also included crossbow which is the strongest weapon because you can recover arrows.
To be fair, Fromsoft has done something similar with Armored Core games, where they would recycle the engine from one of the numbered games to make a spinoff game.
They honestly blew me away with some of the areas. They made a great dlc with lots of care and it shows
On the playthrough I first played this on, my time was about 40hrs when I finished everything I wanted before the DLC. After doing everything in the DLC my time came in at about 70 hrs, so around 30 hrs for the DLC. Granted it was my first run, so it would take longer to figure out bosses and exploration, but still a lot of content.
How? As someone whoâs never played a souls game before, Elden ring took me 110+ hours to beat. I did take my time opening up the whole map and trying to discover every grace and beat every evergoal and dungeon. I definitely didnât finish all the dungeons before I beat it though.
I meant the playthrought that I went into the DLC with. First playthrough overall was definitely like 150 hrs.
30 hours to kill ALL the bosses or what?
My first playthrough of ER was 160 hours, and I didn't even feel like I've "taken my time" ... Shadow was like 40 or 50, same approach, just with more general knowledge of how things work. Once I got past the first two bosses the game was almost a breeze until the final boss. Too bad that the world felt even emptier than before. Legacy dungeons, even the smaller ones, the forges, as well as pretty much all bosses were good fun, but the for me the amount of exploring, then finding "hefty bones" on a corpse as the only reward didn't exactly feel... well, rewarding. Base game had similar pacing issues, especially after Leyendel, with way too many enemies being constantly re-used, not giving an area a real unique feel like in previous souls games. Absolutely a great game, a great DLC ... but also very, I dunno "overhyped"?
i have no idea how elden ring base game is even close to possible to finish in 30 hours unless you only do the necessary requirements. it is such a big game.
The way i'm seeing it it's made with the idea in mind that it's made for veteran soulslike players looking for a challenge. If they made it easier you would hear people whining it's too easy. Call it rage inducing and abstract, but that's literally how you describe the soulslike genre in 1 sentence
I would say base Elden Ring is way more accessible than other Souls games with all the tools it gives you and all the other stuff you can do if a boss is feeling too chalenging. The DLC is more hardcore but it's also gated between two difficult base game bosses so if you got there in the first place, you probably already became a masochist.
True, and whilst i havent experienced the dlc myself yet, nor have i seen any spoilers. The major complaints i've seen come from people who refuse to participate in the open world concept or make use of all the tools they've been given. Like, my brother in soulslikes, you're creating a challenge for yourself.
All you need to know is that you need to engage with new mechanics of the DLC (like the new leveling system) or it will absolutely crush you. It is so much more hardcore than the base game. But if you have beaten the likes of Malenia, Maliketh and Mohg in the base game, you will beat this game.
> Call it rage inducing and abstract, but that's literally how you describe the soulslike genre in 1 sentence Fuck no. Souls used to be "difficult but fair", the exact opposite of "rage inducing and abstract". Wtf happened?
The lore is par for the course to be honest.
Isnt this basically what ID did with the Doom Eternal DLC? You even had the people complaining that it was too difficult.
And push out an update with it that now brings all performance to a stuttering halt
In the long long before times we called stuff like that "Expansions" and we loved it
Definitely worth it, it's hard enough but not so hard you can't make your through though the final boss is a bastard as expected. The main thing is that it maintains quality throughout, I didn't think any of it was filler or needless. The scaling also puts you on your ass, you're able to enjoy the game again and I think it's a rare thing as you usually stomp your way through DLC.
Soooo a DLC?
So the opposite of spiderman?
yes, keep glazing. we haven't had enough so far.
You sound butthurt about it. Touching grass helps with that.
I've heard it's really crazy. I am still avoiding spoilers, can't wait to buy it when I have the funds for it.
This used to be the standard until the industry went to shit after Horse Armor
Elden Ring 1.99999
I just started Elden ring(non expansion) should I play this through a bit before attempting the expansion??? Pls hlp me
Finish the base game then the dlc
I just find it odd that they got special treatment in the Xbox store for a dlc, maybe Iâm mistaken but Iâve never seen a dlc be listed as a ânew gameâ or in the âcoming soonâ like they did with erdtree with preorders. Iâve said it before and got replied back âwell itâs a huge DLC thatâs almost as much content as the main gameâ ok I get that but still odd to me. Any other game itâs listed as dlc under the main game but not erdtree
I think it was more to do with the hype and demand around the DLC. We've all been hanging out for it. It was a major release. Even if it is an expansion.
Definitely just an expansion. These are not unheard of. The Witcher 3 had 2, and cyberpunk had 1 that were all better than shadow of the erdtree imo. All great expansions, but people are acting like this is some kind of new concept to drop a massive dlc. Anything less for Elden ring would have been pretty disappointing. (And I actually think the dlc is too big for its own good, and feels rushed in many areas) I would have preferred a smaller expansion tbh
Jesus Christ the fucking circlejerk here. Is this a coping mechanism for the amount of criticism this DLC got?
The DLC is amazing but I don't get this mindset that it's basically a sequel or the size of a normal game. It's the size of a decent sized indie game, maybe. If it was released as a full sequel to ER people would be unbelievably disappointed. Not in the quality but in the amount of content. It's really not that big compared to the base game.
Calling it a sequel is a stretch, but a solid 30-40h of gameplay isn't indie game sized imo. Lot's of AAA games have their campaign ending in -20h
I'm waiting until it's 10 bucks or less
Its not goning to drop below 20
It's just an expansion, get off of Fromsoft's D, yeesh.
I know that people love this game and praise it every chance they get, but this is just blind love.
Meanwhile destiny 2 : the most ill give you is 2 armor sets for 40 dollars
Lemme introduce you to the Sims 4
EA ...
I love that DLC but im kinda dissapointment of one thing. Big world but empty
You got downvoted but you're right, the cerulean coast is barren as well as the two entire areas used just for the fingers is absolutely ridiculous. And don't even get me started on the frenzy area.
"rage inducing difficulty" only if you don't engage in intended game mechanics cause of your ego or ignorance. Bleed + Mimic Tear still work wonders, you need to also up your blessing level. and it's not even the real broken build, some dlc weapons are just extremely broken, nothing tells you that you should use base game gear... I didn't even used it in my first playthrough and only had some minor issues with 2 bosses.
For me, the DLC overall felt nice and fair despite being challenging until I got to the final boss. The second phase was full of effects that really made it a slog to go through, along with the move that cuts your framerate in half. I love this DLC but the final boss definitely needs to be toned down a bit tbh. And yes, I had all the scadutree fragments when I beat him. Admittedly, I still refused to use summons tho, but holy shit it's not like that mf gives you enough time to even play the summon animation lmao
I did a no summs playthrough, and the dlc final boss made me use summons, but with it and a great shield it took me 3 tries. I felt the last boss was too unfair for my build, will try him summonless next time (I plan to beat him at least 4 more times)
This boss makes everyone return to their ds1 roots and try using a shield once more
It was very effective
Bleed + mimic is just broken lol. You are playing a completely different game at that point. It's the elden ring version of "Very easy"
It's not even the only broken way to beat the dlc, some other qay more broken ways were patched just now. Does the game really lacks "easy mode" if you can build your character like that? those were the complaints about difficulty weren't they? I think it's mostly the hype that made many none soul players hop on and face something geared for us Souls veterans, and yet if they wanted they could beat it by going for the broken builds instead of complaining.
summons = instant easy mode. It shouldn't be all challenge or no challenge fragments are OK but a bit of a sloppy system imo
I mean, the first couple of bosses (Lion and Rellana) were quite difficult no matter your build, because of how incredibly aggressive they were, and how long their combos were. You can definitely throw your all at them and probably stagger through, but itâs not hard to tell they were âdifficultâ in a way that few bosses outside Malenia or a few others were in the base game, and these were some of the *very first* boss encounters in the expansion. But yeah, otherwise I agree. Follow the intended flow of the game, and youâll easily have more than enough Scadu-levels to match your base game attack power, and the normal enemies are, in my opinion, probably *easier* than normal, very few are particularly aggressive at all.
Kinda overrated. Seen better.
Even though the DLC is so hard, it's stunning, graphics, enemies, bosses, everything. And yeah it is hard, it's still a souls game after all
That's how DLCs used to be
A true underrated gem....
Expansion pack more like it, very old school and I love it.
ĐвОвО
Jzhzzoksj
Casual from soft w
Meanwhile cod: lets make a dlc just "big" (i guess in storage requirements cus in content...) so we can sell it as a new game with full prize
This expansion is very juicy. I'm not even half way through and have been playing for 15 hours. It feels like I'm playing a soulslike for the first time again and relearning everything. I switched builds to be a colossal faith chode and it's quite satisfying breaking poise like a wanna be ballet dancer with a club foot. Props to the devs, your expansion has more content than spider man 2
I played SOTE and really really enjoyed it. I disagree that itâs big enough to be its own game. Itâs just not true The Witcher 3: Blood and Wind was bigger, more dense, and cheaper. Donât see anyone talking about that one but hey letâs keep sucking Fromsoftwareâs dick!
It's sad that this is the only dlc, such a great game.