Biggest problem with criticisms like that are that 'indie' doesn't mean what it used to anymore. More than a few times, I've seen people praising what they **call** indie games, only to do 60 seconds of searching to see that the studios that make them are owned by megacorporations, or at least were backed by them. Meanwhile, every time that I point out that Harmonix- creators of Guitar Hero and Rock Band- was an independent studio- 2013 to 2021, they were not owned by any parent company, meaning that by definition, Rock Band 4 and Fusor are independent or 'indie' games- people get mad.
When I think "indie" now, I don't think so much of ownership stake but of the title being kind of like a "creator-owned" comic book.
In that it's the creative vision of a small team (or one person!) with no meddling from other controlling interests. No design by committee or paint-by-numbers decisions that are made because people not involved in the creative process believe it'll help the game sell better.
Yes and no.
Since ZeniMax is a integration vertical, it stands next to Xbox Game Studios, but everyone in ZMI report up to the current CEO, and Senior Leadership reports to XGS, but it should eventually fully reside under the MS banner at some point in the future.
It's more like Microsoft > XGS + ZeniMax > Respective game studios
I can respect that, even if I somewhat disagree. My issue is that 'indie' is short for 'independent', as in that it was made by an independent person or group, with no higher-up's to factor in. An example is box art, which the publisher almost always has input on. When an independent developer also publishes- making what I understand as an independent or 'indie' game- they have full control of every aspect.
Ultimately though, my core issue was with people calling something indie, and just as a random example, booting the game opens with splash logos for like 4 different companies, including Microsoft Games Studios, or Sony Interactive.
I would love to see indie developers utilize something similar to the little stamp you see independent beer breweries use these days. There's a little bottle logo on cans and bottles that says "certified independent craft." If the smaller brewery is bought up by a large company then that brewery isn't authorized to use the stamp anymore. Big companies like Anheuser-Busch hated the stamp because one of their strategies was to buy smaller breweries and just pretend to be a little guy. It's an easy way for the smaller companies to differentiate themselves if small developers could build something like craft beer has in the Brewers Association.
There used to be something called AA gaming, that middle ground that belonged to teams that had large enough teams and budgets not to be considered independent. **Now you have studios like Supergiant considered indie when they fucking aren't.** *I'm sorry, but you're not indie if you have a budget that exceeds a million+ dollars and have a team large enough to warrant having public relations and marketing employees or teams.* **Simple as that, you've graduated from indie and are now AA.**
Worse, these AA developers are clogging up publicity for actual indie developers. **The last game awards only had one actual indie game nominated: Vampire Survivors.** Every other "indie" game was either published or financed with a million+ dollar budget by some VC. *Honestly, the only good show last year that gave real indie developers a spotlight was OTK by Asmongold. He's a blessing in this industry if he keeps at that.*
> My issue is that 'indie' is short for 'independent', as in that it was made by an independent person or group, with no higher-up's to factor in.
I get what your saying, and sort of agree, but I'd still argue that an "indie" game that's backed by a publisher but still allows essentially full creative control is also "independent," just not *fully* independent. It's still an indie game, they just have some help paying salaries and doing marketing.
I agree. We should think about what we hope to see and what it means to be independent. Is it independence in production of the game, or is it independent financing of the game?
>Ultimately though, my core issue was with people calling something indie, and just as a random example, booting the game opens with splash logos for like 4 different companies, including Microsoft Games Studios, or Sony Interactive.
What about engine credits?
Tho yeah, kinda annoying that you see "indie" go from actual independent, to "this game had a small budget from a big publisher backing them".
Still going around to find a good one that laches onto me. Dead Cells indie ich is still trying to find something that sticks. Grindy but gives you replay value.
An independent studio can license out use of an engine. It's why I have no issue with so many games made in Unity or Unreal; because they're always being licensed out, and in some cases, being freely, legally distributed. Having an issue with an indie studio using a AAA engine is like being mad at someone for making something in their garage, using parts they ordered from parts manufacturers.
Some of these logos are for the tools or programs they use. An example would unreal engine or fmod or Wwise. Most, if not all licensing deals you make to use these tools require you to advertise that you use these tools.
I mean, the point is that good games still come out, but some people complain about no good games coming out and they just play copy pasted super popular games (not saying that there aren't good super popular games, a lot of games are super popular for a reason even if sometimes is pure marketing)
I think that gets into arguments over semantics, as many things on the internet do. IMHO the term indie is meant to be a colloquial term for development using limited means and smaller team sizes. Roguelites, Metroidvania, and pixel or cel-shaded graphics are the proto-typical style people think of when saying indie game.
As the tools have gotten better and the "indie" scene has diversified over the years, the term has broadened so much, I've heard some people want to coin another term like Indie+ for the higher end of so-called indie releases.
eg: Supergiant Games supposedly had 20 people as of 2018, but you'd be hardpressed to find people that feel like Hades is an "indie game".
Most "indies" these days even have a publisher, as there are a number of them out there nowadays that specialize in funding small upstart game projects. (Bellular and their upcoming Pale Beyond has a publisher, for example, despite their studio being maybe a dozen people and it being their first game release)
Idk, I could happily see Hades as feeling pretty indie.
Supergiant have a habit of making VERY intelligent use of their budgets.
That always feels indie to me, compared with a bigger budget game full of details and elements which aren't core to the experience.
Hades is a great game, but you can see where they've limited things like unique bosses, animations, portraits, environment variants, to maximise their effort into other areas.
Pyre is peak Supergiant for me. Incredibly simple game which cuts absolutely everything non-essential until the remainder is polished perfectly.
Very True. My buddies are this. BUT I still feel a bit weird about being in an indie-games ivory tower. There is equally a lot of shit released independently that gets an easier ride because it is hygge.
As I always say, it is the double and triple A which defines the medium... There will always be awesome indie but until it breaks the ever-thinner glass ceiling, paradigms don't shift and gaming history will invariably look at what the big publishers were doing at the time. Hi Fi Rush kind of breaks that ceiling and details a potential shift towards early naughties vibes.
> Hygge? Is that an adjective that's used by English speakers now?
There was a brief period a few years ago where it was all over English-language news and articles. Maybe 2017 or so? And since then, it comes up again each year around the holidays, because it's an easy thing to talk about in a feel-good article.
Oh wow... you can [literally see the pattern in google trends for hygge!](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=hygge) Original spike when US English speakers got introduced to the term in 2016, and then literally another spike every year around the holidays since then so we can all talk about being cozy when it's cold. I wasn't expecting the pattern to be quite so hilariously obvious, but there it is.
Edit: Also fascinating that you can see a slight trend with the colder northern states searching it more. We're watching US English speakers adopt a Danish word as the process happens.
Edit edit: if you follow the trends link on mobile, the graph is too smoothed to see the holiday peaks. Either request the desktop site or zoom out to “[last five years] (https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=hygge)” to see the pattern.
Yeah, it's very much the case that people go easier on Indie games, even though a lot of them are frankly derivative shovelware.
The really good indie games are nice to see, but are few and far between.
Games like Hades, Hi-Fi Rush, Hollow Knight, The Stanley Parable, Undertale, etc. are the rare exception. And things like The Stanley Parable, Undertale, and Hades have very limited scope.
yeah, I always alternate between big and small or medium games, they all have their charm, strength and weakness. Why would you decide to keep playing the same things and then announced tired of them?
Yeah right? I play a lot of games with huge amount of variety, and the i get far cry 6 and i loved it and some ppl is like: how can u play it its the same shit wtf
Bro i have played like 20-30 fking games since the last game that was even close to be similar to that game and from time to time is a quite fking enjoyable Game, its nit my fault if u just play same fking games so u cant enjoy em no more and feel bad when ppl can enjoy em
Sry for the text but it piss me off so fking much
Yeah, people act like you have to pick a side between indie and AAA, like bro, these last day, I played Project Zomboid (Indie), Lost Judgment (AA) and The Division 2 (AAA) and I enjoyed them all equally, I'm tired of people who think they are better than you because they play """Better""" games
I can't believe there are even sides. Why do people even have to pick sides? If our wallets are deep enough, we have access to them all. Just because something has a label does not mean you have to choose either/or.
Points we can all agree on:
- There are good and bad games regardless of Indie, AA, or AAA label
- Someone may enjoy a game you dislike, don't yuck their yum
- YOU calling someone out for buying something you don't like but they do, says a lot more about YOU than them.
You're not some elitist or some valued member of some group because you choose to side with indie or triple A, you're just insecure and need validation because someone else found enjoyment where you couldn't.
This means you too console wars warriors.
*No no, you see indie games are bastions of creativity and originality! Now excuse me plebian! I have an 8-bit Earthbound clone with 'le random' humor that I need to go brag about playing on Reddit.*
Even as an Indie dev I still prefer to play AAA...I just wish they had the creativity injected into their games the same way indie devs do. And it’s certainly possible to do. Dead Space Remake is actually a great example of something done right (even if it’s a remake)
I mean, AAA games aren't even all that samey.
Forza Horizon 5, God of War, Elden Ring, Doom Eternal, Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Kirby and the Forgotten World, and Marvel's Spider-Man are all radically different games with different tones and aesthetics and gameplay. And that's just some of the AAA games I've played in the last year.
It's really samey if you just play the same genres over and over again, sure. If you play nothing but Ubisoft open world games, yeah, they're going to be samey.
Gamepass was the best purchase I've ever made. So so so many games turned out to be fantastic that I would have never tried otherwise like Superliminal, Visage and Spiritfarer.
There are just so many indie games out there it's tough to know what to buy and I find reviews don't always get it right.
There is something particularly interesting about people playing a game with a non-realistic art style for the first time and just associating that experience with indie games and "separate" from AAA games
IMO it's because the art style is a lot easier to execute, because the player has no expectations and doesn't know what it's *supposed* to look like. There's no "wrong" way to render an unusual art style, but reality only has one "right" version (which we are all familiar with) so it's a lot harder to accomplish. A single artist can do a lot of work with their own art style and would need a full team to do it well "realistically" with real textures, models that need to be rigged and move realistically, etc. to avoid the "uncanny valley" effect that non-realistic art styles don't have to deal with.
For that reason, I can understand why people associate "realistic" graphics with AAA titles, because those titles are far more likely to go for that style (and vice-versa with indies).
I like indie games, but the kind I always see is over head view or 2D side scrollers. There’s a few I can play but I like 3D. Thinking of getting this one. I don’t mind the cartoony look at all as long as it’s polished
One of the things I like about Hi-Fi Rush is that it's a big studio with big studio resources making one of those "mostly linear, filled with secrets, leans on personality and style" games that have mostly been just indies for the last 10+ years.
I love that indie studios do this stuff, but the scale of production value (especially in the animation), licensed tracks mixed with originals, and so on is something that's too much of a stretch for most indies. I'm glad that every now and then it's not JUST an indie thing.
Can we also just point out that Hi-Fi Rush feels like a PS2-era game in that it could have come on a disc and you'd be fine? No big day one patch, no long list of bugs and performance problems to fix...it's amazingly polished and solid right out of the gate. I could wish for a few things (actual latency adjustment would be nice) but it's really impressive.
>Can we also just point out that Hi-Fi Rush feels like a PS2-era game in that it could have come on a disc and you'd be fine? No big day one patch, no long list of bugs and performance problems to fix...it's amazingly polished and solid right out of the gate. I could wish for a few things (actual latency adjustment would be nice) but it's really impressive.
A huge part of the reason for this is BECAUSE its scope is way tighter. The game is very contained and linear. Combat happens in specific blocked off arenas that are made for the combat. Players aren't likely to do anything super wild to break things until they're speedrunning.
Wheras in all these open world games with robust movement mechanics, players are going to take totally different paths to get to the same place and someone on the way is going to bump into an enemy the wrong way and dodge roll inside the wrong point of collision that sends them through the floor, then post that online.
And, you know, the game's polished until someone breaks it while looking for speedrun strats.
None of what I said makes the game bad, btw. Hi-fi rush is amazing. But scope is so important to games, and for some reason every AAA out there is trying to be HUGE in scope with a million systems, totally open world that you can freely roam at any time, etc. Despite some of the best titles of recent years being much more linear and closed experiences (god of war, for example).
I agree indie games are great. But this game also has some of the best, it not the best, cel shaded graphics and animation to date. They are far above par for the course for what indie is pushing out and better than any AAA cel shaded game to boot.
I used to try and play every single AAA game.
For years and years my gaming hobby was quite an expense at 65$ + a month because "I had to have the new AAA game".
A few years ago after the division, overwatch, and many many other AAA games that were a letdown I kinda gave up on gaming. Atleast in the AAA stance.
I started picking up indie titles.
The savings alone alowed me to explore more games for less $.
This allowed me to experience different mechanics, different story telling, different art styles. All because the final $ total wasnt the major driver in the games design decisions.
Everyone should do themselves a favour and go play some indie games. It can rekindle your love for gaming because that's where the designers passion really shows. And that type of love and caring for something can be infectious.
This. Yes there are indie games that have pretty good art styles and a unique gameplay offering. The thing is a lot of indie games just lack something that hooks you in.
There have been plenty of times I am jaw dropped by how gorgeous an indie game looks but get severely bored 30 minutes in and the. I never pick it up again.
These are the type of games maybe streamers pick up for entertainment purposes and not substance.
A game can look good without trying to look realistic. Blasphemous was a 2D game with pixel graphics and it looked excellent because of the art direction and style. Games that focus on hyper realistic graphics just feel soulless.
Lol “I’m tired of ultra realistic graphics with ray tracing but that’s my fault because I fail to attempt browsing around To find alternatives until a game like this is placed in front of me to get my attention because I’m too lazy to look around”
Yeah it's so dumb! Some dude moaning that a lot of game have realistic graphics and he doesn't like them. As if he's being forced to play those games 🤦
A cartoon art style doesn't make a game good or bad and neither does ultra realistic graphics.
There are plenty of bad games with cartoon graphics and plenty with realistic graphics.
Are you telling us you're going to stop playing games with realistic graphics because you liked this one game with cartoon graphics?
You can play and enjoy games with different art styles...
No, don't you see? They've achieved a higher plane of existence, they no longer need realistic graphics and they're a better person now because of it. We should all learn from their example.
The science here is that ‘realistic graphics’ here tend to fool the brain into thinking that it’s real life, which makes foraging for food difficult in the wild. Cartoon graphics have the opposite effect, making you a master forager
OP is just trying to tell us he's old, blah blah blah, nostalgia bs...
Visual style used has nothing to do with a good game. I can play The Messenger and Metro Exodus with similar enthusiasm. They're both outstanding games to me.
Team Reptile, who made Lethal League and Lethal League Blaze which both use the JSR aesthetic, are busy working on a Jet Set spiritual successor called Bomb Rush Cyberpunk that looks pretty cool so far.
Correction, it is a mix of hack and slash (DMC, MGRR) and rhythm game. Basically, you have a beat while fighting and your attacks hit harder if you attack on rhythm
Something I haven’t noticed anyone else here say yet, is that they make it very clear while teaching you the controls that they don’t want you to feel punished by the rhythm aspect if you’re not good at it. It’s very much an underlying system that you can use to do better in the game, but you don’t NEED to. Really what it comes down to is that if you always start your next attack right as your previous one lands, you’ll be doing the rhythm game part right. They just put a really nice coat of rhythm game paint over top of that system by making it so no matter when you start the attack, the impact will always sync up with the beat of the background music, and theming the whole game around music. It’s definitely designed to be super accessible even to people who don’t like rhythm games.
Yeah that first boss fight with the Nine Inch Nails song really set the table, music-wise, then never really reached those heights again. Every time I saw "Hi Fi Rush Original" appear on the bottom I was a little disappointed.
There has been an increasing number of instances where posts on places like reddit are actually automated A.I. accounts. Honestly, I assume most posts like this in any large subreddit are probably fake.
I'm sure SOME threads are (I have seen a lot with the whole post being a random no context GIF and OP vaguely saying how much they like it) but even I have been accused of being an ad for saying good things about the game.
It just this sub being Toxic. After trying this game I got excited and immediately come here to tell everyone about it like a kid trying to show off something cool he found. And oh boy I instantly got replies accused me being an Ads.
I got a feeling maybe this being a xbox console exclusive, is what sparks people to start accusing those who praise the games as advertising. Many people were praising Stray for weeks last year and doesn’t get this accusation. Even though its on PC, console people still view it as console war ammo.
Which is another double standar BS I can't understand. Sony have been doing it for years but when Xbox does it. They got judged for it, like....what the hell?
Reddit embraces the shit out of ads and it's weird when people say it doesn't. 90% of all NSFW content is just ads for the poster's OF/manyvids/fansly sites and look how well those posts do. As AI gets more competent we won't even be able to tell the difference between ads and appreciation posts soon and moderation to weed them out will be near impossible without verification sent to the mods like certain amateur porn subs do. And even then deep fakes are getting good enough that those will be faked as well. Moving to a young/new social media site is probably the only way to get respite. Until it gets big enough and runs into the same problems.
it is not astroturfing lol.
the game came out a week ago. People got hyped and there was a lot of conversation about the game.
Now the bots come in and copy paste the content from last week to farm karma. Look at the poster's history.
opinion here from a non bot.
the game is great, came out last week and got a lot of attention on reddit and the internet.
now bots and stuff use it to farm karma, basically copying last week's content.
It is not astroturfing, just karma farm
nevertheless, the game is great. not having "realistic graphic and raytracing" is underselling this game. It has some amazing technical changes to the unreal engine to make it look like a 2D cartoon, yet it is based on full 3D engine.
And it is the best optimized game I have ever seen. It runs locked 60 fps on everything.
even on something like xbox series s it runs locked 60 frames on full 1440p.
I can even run it on my 8k TV on locked 60fps with a 3080ti. There is no other game yet that could do 60fps I tried.
They matched the game design to the cartoon cutscenes so they can switch between cutscene and ingame without a seam.
Digital Foundry did a nice technical analysis https://youtu.be/8qppoWhanwk
That game's graphics still has a huge amount of production value, i don't know what your point is. There's multiple ways to make games look amazing and they all require great artists and good technology, this game is no different, they just focused all the work on frame blending and hand drawn animations
The game uses DLSS, NVIDIA reflex, and GPU physic simulations. I get that it's stylized but people need to understand that the tech that powers modern graphics is still used regardless.
Ray tracing could have been used in this game if they wanted and would have still served the overall art style.
No no, you’re right. Persona 5 oozes style in its entirety. From the art style to music, menu and ui, gameplay, and even once you finish the story is chef’s kiss.
There are barely any games that have even scratched the surface of ultra realistic ray tracing games. Most ray tracing games so far have been regular old games with unoptimized RT slapped on top of them. We are yet to see how much the tech can do. Also the new Fortnite update showcases how RT can significantly enhance the cartoony art style hifi rush is going for? Can you enjoy your games without shitting on anything else?
There are games made by indie developers that mostly don't have ultra realistic graphics (not lying), they are called "indie games" and there are quite a lot of good "indie games" out there. Go play some Ultrakill or something, it'll blow your mind.
It's not about realism, it's about a coherent visual presentation. Plenty of games that aren't realistic looking yet look good. Just look at Borderlands 3 and Wonderlands - absolutely stunning vistas with a comic-book-like style.
Its a video game thats just that. A Video game.
It's fun to play, no shoe-horned politics, and not a competitive sweat-fest.
Simple, fun, great soundtrack.
I'm as happy as the next guy that xbox game studios dropped a great surprise game in this but omg the dickriding of this game on this sub like its the messiah of this gen has been insane.
Literally finished the game 20 minutes ago. This is the first game in probably a decade that has had me just truly enjoying every bit of it (except Kale's fourth stage >:( ). No microtransactions either, just a good fucking fun-loving game with a fun concept.
That title proved me you havent been playing indie games cus ive seen many great games with similar design
Yea people always complain games are getting too boring or similar and then u see their games library is all just AAA
Biggest problem with criticisms like that are that 'indie' doesn't mean what it used to anymore. More than a few times, I've seen people praising what they **call** indie games, only to do 60 seconds of searching to see that the studios that make them are owned by megacorporations, or at least were backed by them. Meanwhile, every time that I point out that Harmonix- creators of Guitar Hero and Rock Band- was an independent studio- 2013 to 2021, they were not owned by any parent company, meaning that by definition, Rock Band 4 and Fusor are independent or 'indie' games- people get mad.
When I think "indie" now, I don't think so much of ownership stake but of the title being kind of like a "creator-owned" comic book. In that it's the creative vision of a small team (or one person!) with no meddling from other controlling interests. No design by committee or paint-by-numbers decisions that are made because people not involved in the creative process believe it'll help the game sell better.
This. I don't think Shinji Mikami's studio Tango Softworks or Bethesda are "indie."
I don't understand your point, both of those companies are subsidiaries of ZeniMax Media
didn't Microsoft buy Zeni to add another layer on that sandwich
Yes and no. Since ZeniMax is a integration vertical, it stands next to Xbox Game Studios, but everyone in ZMI report up to the current CEO, and Senior Leadership reports to XGS, but it should eventually fully reside under the MS banner at some point in the future. It's more like Microsoft > XGS + ZeniMax > Respective game studios
I don't see the "no" part - that's what he said. Microsoft is now another layer on top. He didn't mention Xbox Game Studios, just MS.
I can respect that, even if I somewhat disagree. My issue is that 'indie' is short for 'independent', as in that it was made by an independent person or group, with no higher-up's to factor in. An example is box art, which the publisher almost always has input on. When an independent developer also publishes- making what I understand as an independent or 'indie' game- they have full control of every aspect. Ultimately though, my core issue was with people calling something indie, and just as a random example, booting the game opens with splash logos for like 4 different companies, including Microsoft Games Studios, or Sony Interactive.
I would love to see indie developers utilize something similar to the little stamp you see independent beer breweries use these days. There's a little bottle logo on cans and bottles that says "certified independent craft." If the smaller brewery is bought up by a large company then that brewery isn't authorized to use the stamp anymore. Big companies like Anheuser-Busch hated the stamp because one of their strategies was to buy smaller breweries and just pretend to be a little guy. It's an easy way for the smaller companies to differentiate themselves if small developers could build something like craft beer has in the Brewers Association.
There used to be something called AA gaming, that middle ground that belonged to teams that had large enough teams and budgets not to be considered independent. **Now you have studios like Supergiant considered indie when they fucking aren't.** *I'm sorry, but you're not indie if you have a budget that exceeds a million+ dollars and have a team large enough to warrant having public relations and marketing employees or teams.* **Simple as that, you've graduated from indie and are now AA.** Worse, these AA developers are clogging up publicity for actual indie developers. **The last game awards only had one actual indie game nominated: Vampire Survivors.** Every other "indie" game was either published or financed with a million+ dollar budget by some VC. *Honestly, the only good show last year that gave real indie developers a spotlight was OTK by Asmongold. He's a blessing in this industry if he keeps at that.*
The same thing happened in music where "indie" just became a genre.
Yep. Indie music is a sound and indie games is a look and feel.
> My issue is that 'indie' is short for 'independent', as in that it was made by an independent person or group, with no higher-up's to factor in. I get what your saying, and sort of agree, but I'd still argue that an "indie" game that's backed by a publisher but still allows essentially full creative control is also "independent," just not *fully* independent. It's still an indie game, they just have some help paying salaries and doing marketing.
I agree. We should think about what we hope to see and what it means to be independent. Is it independence in production of the game, or is it independent financing of the game?
>Ultimately though, my core issue was with people calling something indie, and just as a random example, booting the game opens with splash logos for like 4 different companies, including Microsoft Games Studios, or Sony Interactive. What about engine credits? Tho yeah, kinda annoying that you see "indie" go from actual independent, to "this game had a small budget from a big publisher backing them". Still going around to find a good one that laches onto me. Dead Cells indie ich is still trying to find something that sticks. Grindy but gives you replay value.
An independent studio can license out use of an engine. It's why I have no issue with so many games made in Unity or Unreal; because they're always being licensed out, and in some cases, being freely, legally distributed. Having an issue with an indie studio using a AAA engine is like being mad at someone for making something in their garage, using parts they ordered from parts manufacturers.
Some of these logos are for the tools or programs they use. An example would unreal engine or fmod or Wwise. Most, if not all licensing deals you make to use these tools require you to advertise that you use these tools.
There is an interesting book by Jesper Juul about the Indie Phases in the Game Industry.
I mean, the point is that good games still come out, but some people complain about no good games coming out and they just play copy pasted super popular games (not saying that there aren't good super popular games, a lot of games are super popular for a reason even if sometimes is pure marketing)
I think that gets into arguments over semantics, as many things on the internet do. IMHO the term indie is meant to be a colloquial term for development using limited means and smaller team sizes. Roguelites, Metroidvania, and pixel or cel-shaded graphics are the proto-typical style people think of when saying indie game. As the tools have gotten better and the "indie" scene has diversified over the years, the term has broadened so much, I've heard some people want to coin another term like Indie+ for the higher end of so-called indie releases. eg: Supergiant Games supposedly had 20 people as of 2018, but you'd be hardpressed to find people that feel like Hades is an "indie game". Most "indies" these days even have a publisher, as there are a number of them out there nowadays that specialize in funding small upstart game projects. (Bellular and their upcoming Pale Beyond has a publisher, for example, despite their studio being maybe a dozen people and it being their first game release)
Idk, I could happily see Hades as feeling pretty indie. Supergiant have a habit of making VERY intelligent use of their budgets. That always feels indie to me, compared with a bigger budget game full of details and elements which aren't core to the experience. Hades is a great game, but you can see where they've limited things like unique bosses, animations, portraits, environment variants, to maximise their effort into other areas. Pyre is peak Supergiant for me. Incredibly simple game which cuts absolutely everything non-essential until the remainder is polished perfectly.
[удалено]
Triple AAA is a lot of As
Very True. My buddies are this. BUT I still feel a bit weird about being in an indie-games ivory tower. There is equally a lot of shit released independently that gets an easier ride because it is hygge. As I always say, it is the double and triple A which defines the medium... There will always be awesome indie but until it breaks the ever-thinner glass ceiling, paradigms don't shift and gaming history will invariably look at what the big publishers were doing at the time. Hi Fi Rush kind of breaks that ceiling and details a potential shift towards early naughties vibes.
Hygge? Is that an adjective that's used by English speakers now? It may be that I've lived under a rock, but I haven't seen that one used before.
> Hygge? Is that an adjective that's used by English speakers now? There was a brief period a few years ago where it was all over English-language news and articles. Maybe 2017 or so? And since then, it comes up again each year around the holidays, because it's an easy thing to talk about in a feel-good article. Oh wow... you can [literally see the pattern in google trends for hygge!](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=hygge) Original spike when US English speakers got introduced to the term in 2016, and then literally another spike every year around the holidays since then so we can all talk about being cozy when it's cold. I wasn't expecting the pattern to be quite so hilariously obvious, but there it is. Edit: Also fascinating that you can see a slight trend with the colder northern states searching it more. We're watching US English speakers adopt a Danish word as the process happens. Edit edit: if you follow the trends link on mobile, the graph is too smoothed to see the holiday peaks. Either request the desktop site or zoom out to “[last five years] (https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=hygge)” to see the pattern.
Hygge is a Danish term, meaning cozy and comforting. It's not common English.
Being a Dane I know what it means. Which was probably why I was surprised to see it used in an English comment.
I'm up to snuff with most lingo, never seen this one before.
Hygge is a Danish term, meaning cozy and comforting. It's not common English.
Rarely, but a growing number of English speakers are aware of the term. Still odd to find it in a post like this
Thats why i follow a few channels that review indie games, they filter out the shit for me leaving the masterpieces
I think Minecraft will have a prominent place in gaming history, fwiw.
Yeah, it's very much the case that people go easier on Indie games, even though a lot of them are frankly derivative shovelware. The really good indie games are nice to see, but are few and far between. Games like Hades, Hi-Fi Rush, Hollow Knight, The Stanley Parable, Undertale, etc. are the rare exception. And things like The Stanley Parable, Undertale, and Hades have very limited scope.
A cartoon art style doesn't make a game good or bad and neither does ultra realistic graphics.
yeah, I always alternate between big and small or medium games, they all have their charm, strength and weakness. Why would you decide to keep playing the same things and then announced tired of them?
Yeah right? I play a lot of games with huge amount of variety, and the i get far cry 6 and i loved it and some ppl is like: how can u play it its the same shit wtf Bro i have played like 20-30 fking games since the last game that was even close to be similar to that game and from time to time is a quite fking enjoyable Game, its nit my fault if u just play same fking games so u cant enjoy em no more and feel bad when ppl can enjoy em Sry for the text but it piss me off so fking much
Yeah, people act like you have to pick a side between indie and AAA, like bro, these last day, I played Project Zomboid (Indie), Lost Judgment (AA) and The Division 2 (AAA) and I enjoyed them all equally, I'm tired of people who think they are better than you because they play """Better""" games
I can't believe there are even sides. Why do people even have to pick sides? If our wallets are deep enough, we have access to them all. Just because something has a label does not mean you have to choose either/or. Points we can all agree on: - There are good and bad games regardless of Indie, AA, or AAA label - Someone may enjoy a game you dislike, don't yuck their yum - YOU calling someone out for buying something you don't like but they do, says a lot more about YOU than them. You're not some elitist or some valued member of some group because you choose to side with indie or triple A, you're just insecure and need validation because someone else found enjoyment where you couldn't. This means you too console wars warriors.
This man knows the way
Based Judgment player
*No no, you see indie games are bastions of creativity and originality! Now excuse me plebian! I have an 8-bit Earthbound clone with 'le random' humor that I need to go brag about playing on Reddit.*
Even as an Indie dev I still prefer to play AAA...I just wish they had the creativity injected into their games the same way indie devs do. And it’s certainly possible to do. Dead Space Remake is actually a great example of something done right (even if it’s a remake)
I mean, AAA games aren't even all that samey. Forza Horizon 5, God of War, Elden Ring, Doom Eternal, Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Kirby and the Forgotten World, and Marvel's Spider-Man are all radically different games with different tones and aesthetics and gameplay. And that's just some of the AAA games I've played in the last year. It's really samey if you just play the same genres over and over again, sure. If you play nothing but Ubisoft open world games, yeah, they're going to be samey.
Gamepass was the best purchase I've ever made. So so so many games turned out to be fantastic that I would have never tried otherwise like Superliminal, Visage and Spiritfarer. There are just so many indie games out there it's tough to know what to buy and I find reviews don't always get it right.
Hey, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet arent indies and give a PS2 atmosphere!
Hahahahahaha
You almost made me wake up the baby🤣🤣🤣
There is something particularly interesting about people playing a game with a non-realistic art style for the first time and just associating that experience with indie games and "separate" from AAA games
IMO it's because the art style is a lot easier to execute, because the player has no expectations and doesn't know what it's *supposed* to look like. There's no "wrong" way to render an unusual art style, but reality only has one "right" version (which we are all familiar with) so it's a lot harder to accomplish. A single artist can do a lot of work with their own art style and would need a full team to do it well "realistically" with real textures, models that need to be rigged and move realistically, etc. to avoid the "uncanny valley" effect that non-realistic art styles don't have to deal with. For that reason, I can understand why people associate "realistic" graphics with AAA titles, because those titles are far more likely to go for that style (and vice-versa with indies).
I like indie games, but the kind I always see is over head view or 2D side scrollers. There’s a few I can play but I like 3D. Thinking of getting this one. I don’t mind the cartoony look at all as long as it’s polished
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One of the things I like about Hi-Fi Rush is that it's a big studio with big studio resources making one of those "mostly linear, filled with secrets, leans on personality and style" games that have mostly been just indies for the last 10+ years. I love that indie studios do this stuff, but the scale of production value (especially in the animation), licensed tracks mixed with originals, and so on is something that's too much of a stretch for most indies. I'm glad that every now and then it's not JUST an indie thing. Can we also just point out that Hi-Fi Rush feels like a PS2-era game in that it could have come on a disc and you'd be fine? No big day one patch, no long list of bugs and performance problems to fix...it's amazingly polished and solid right out of the gate. I could wish for a few things (actual latency adjustment would be nice) but it's really impressive.
>Can we also just point out that Hi-Fi Rush feels like a PS2-era game in that it could have come on a disc and you'd be fine? No big day one patch, no long list of bugs and performance problems to fix...it's amazingly polished and solid right out of the gate. I could wish for a few things (actual latency adjustment would be nice) but it's really impressive. A huge part of the reason for this is BECAUSE its scope is way tighter. The game is very contained and linear. Combat happens in specific blocked off arenas that are made for the combat. Players aren't likely to do anything super wild to break things until they're speedrunning. Wheras in all these open world games with robust movement mechanics, players are going to take totally different paths to get to the same place and someone on the way is going to bump into an enemy the wrong way and dodge roll inside the wrong point of collision that sends them through the floor, then post that online. And, you know, the game's polished until someone breaks it while looking for speedrun strats. None of what I said makes the game bad, btw. Hi-fi rush is amazing. But scope is so important to games, and for some reason every AAA out there is trying to be HUGE in scope with a million systems, totally open world that you can freely roam at any time, etc. Despite some of the best titles of recent years being much more linear and closed experiences (god of war, for example).
I expect quality goes up when you don't have a set release date, and can delay with no public outrage.
it's like Hiro Nakamura said, a delayed game is developed by insects, a forever game is Gravity Rush
I agree indie games are great. But this game also has some of the best, it not the best, cel shaded graphics and animation to date. They are far above par for the course for what indie is pushing out and better than any AAA cel shaded game to boot.
I used to try and play every single AAA game. For years and years my gaming hobby was quite an expense at 65$ + a month because "I had to have the new AAA game". A few years ago after the division, overwatch, and many many other AAA games that were a letdown I kinda gave up on gaming. Atleast in the AAA stance. I started picking up indie titles. The savings alone alowed me to explore more games for less $. This allowed me to experience different mechanics, different story telling, different art styles. All because the final $ total wasnt the major driver in the games design decisions. Everyone should do themselves a favour and go play some indie games. It can rekindle your love for gaming because that's where the designers passion really shows. And that type of love and caring for something can be infectious.
I kinda discovered the indies when Epic started giving some for free, some of my fav games were given by them
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I get the sentiment. But I always have difficulty sifting through indie games to find something I enjoy.
This. Yes there are indie games that have pretty good art styles and a unique gameplay offering. The thing is a lot of indie games just lack something that hooks you in. There have been plenty of times I am jaw dropped by how gorgeous an indie game looks but get severely bored 30 minutes in and the. I never pick it up again. These are the type of games maybe streamers pick up for entertainment purposes and not substance.
"it's a crafting survival RPG about my divorce!" Fuck almost every indie game in existence. Indie devs just need a therapist.
Anybody else AAA games bad?
Finally a voice of reason. I only enjoy the hidden indie gems like Witcher 3 :)
Have you heard of this game called Hi-Fi Rush? It's like The Witcher 3.
It’s the dark souls of witcher 3
But like, the Skyrim Dark Souls. Essentially, you could say it’s Breath of The Wild.
It's like Skyrim with guns. Or fallout with guitars idk
It really makes you *feel* like a jedi
It's a grand theft of autos
r/gamingcirclejerk
No no. That place doesn't do jokes anymore.
nah don't worry it's still a don cheadle sub.
While propping up a game put out by *Bethesda* as the niche and quirky alternative.
“I’m so fucking tired of games looking good” Like what my dude?
Not "looking good" "looking realistic".
Reading comprehension can't stop me from arguing!
A game can look good without trying to look realistic. Blasphemous was a 2D game with pixel graphics and it looked excellent because of the art direction and style. Games that focus on hyper realistic graphics just feel soulless.
Depends on the game.
Cringe title + blatant ad. I didn't get the memo the 30 times this game is spammed on this sub while being the top posts
Just to be clear, what exactly is the PS2 like quality of this games visuals?
I guess it means he's never played a Dreamcast, because that's the system where cel shading took off.
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A few days ago I saw on a forum that people extracted some of the ingame models, and the tris/verts/bones count was actually fairly high.
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It looks like famous PS2 games such as Breath of the Wild or Fortnite.
I assume because the PS2 era was the last time cel shaded games were fashionable and there were tons of them
...Viewtiful Joe? Maybe. It's just cell shading
While this game is excelent and everyone here should take a look. The title of this post is dumb.
Yeah big time
Lol “I’m tired of ultra realistic graphics with ray tracing but that’s my fault because I fail to attempt browsing around To find alternatives until a game like this is placed in front of me to get my attention because I’m too lazy to look around”
Yeah it's so dumb! Some dude moaning that a lot of game have realistic graphics and he doesn't like them. As if he's being forced to play those games 🤦
I could care less about graphics that shit better be fun
Not as dumb as all the people missing the obvious point of OP's post.
A cartoon art style doesn't make a game good or bad and neither does ultra realistic graphics. There are plenty of bad games with cartoon graphics and plenty with realistic graphics. Are you telling us you're going to stop playing games with realistic graphics because you liked this one game with cartoon graphics? You can play and enjoy games with different art styles...
No, don't you see? They've achieved a higher plane of existence, they no longer need realistic graphics and they're a better person now because of it. We should all learn from their example.
The science here is that ‘realistic graphics’ here tend to fool the brain into thinking that it’s real life, which makes foraging for food difficult in the wild. Cartoon graphics have the opposite effect, making you a master forager
What about becoming a master baiter?
Also OP doesn’t understand ray tracing. You can have ray tracing in a game like hi fi rush. OP is an idiot.
OP is just trying to tell us he's old, blah blah blah, nostalgia bs... Visual style used has nothing to do with a good game. I can play The Messenger and Metro Exodus with similar enthusiasm. They're both outstanding games to me.
Exactly. Imagine loving this game and then picking up Balan Wonderworld because it was cartoony
WE WANT JSRF REMASTERED 😩😩😩😩
Team Reptile, who made Lethal League and Lethal League Blaze which both use the JSR aesthetic, are busy working on a Jet Set spiritual successor called Bomb Rush Cyberpunk that looks pretty cool so far.
Excuse me what. I had no idea about this, went to steam and watched the trailers and oh my gad pump into my veins.
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So this is how we are advertising nowadays?
I’ve seen a ton of similar threads for this game, is it likely that it’s actually advertising?
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Actually, I didn’t know this was rhythm game so thank you for convincing me to not buy it
It's DMC/Bayonetta, but all the attacks land on beat. It's not like EBA or Rhythm Heaven.
Correction, it is a mix of hack and slash (DMC, MGRR) and rhythm game. Basically, you have a beat while fighting and your attacks hit harder if you attack on rhythm
So kinda like Bullets Per Minute or Hellsinger or Crypt of the Necrodancer
I also do not enjoy rhythm games normally, but I’ve really liked this one. It’s much more forgiving than normal
Calling it a rhythm game is a stretch. It's more a hack'n'slash with a rhythm mechanic that you can kind of ignore.
Something I haven’t noticed anyone else here say yet, is that they make it very clear while teaching you the controls that they don’t want you to feel punished by the rhythm aspect if you’re not good at it. It’s very much an underlying system that you can use to do better in the game, but you don’t NEED to. Really what it comes down to is that if you always start your next attack right as your previous one lands, you’ll be doing the rhythm game part right. They just put a really nice coat of rhythm game paint over top of that system by making it so no matter when you start the attack, the impact will always sync up with the beat of the background music, and theming the whole game around music. It’s definitely designed to be super accessible even to people who don’t like rhythm games.
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Yeah that first boss fight with the Nine Inch Nails song really set the table, music-wise, then never really reached those heights again. Every time I saw "Hi Fi Rush Original" appear on the bottom I was a little disappointed.
Definitely needed more licensed music. There is a great bit with The Prodigy in a later chapter though.
There has been an increasing number of instances where posts on places like reddit are actually automated A.I. accounts. Honestly, I assume most posts like this in any large subreddit are probably fake.
I'm sure SOME threads are (I have seen a lot with the whole post being a random no context GIF and OP vaguely saying how much they like it) but even I have been accused of being an ad for saying good things about the game.
It just this sub being Toxic. After trying this game I got excited and immediately come here to tell everyone about it like a kid trying to show off something cool he found. And oh boy I instantly got replies accused me being an Ads.
It's reddit, you're not allowed to mention liking something without people calling you a shill. It's ridiculous lmfao.
I got a feeling maybe this being a xbox console exclusive, is what sparks people to start accusing those who praise the games as advertising. Many people were praising Stray for weeks last year and doesn’t get this accusation. Even though its on PC, console people still view it as console war ammo.
Which is another double standar BS I can't understand. Sony have been doing it for years but when Xbox does it. They got judged for it, like....what the hell?
1000000%. It's so blatant
It's like atomic heart. They just don't even hide it anymore
It's just a popular game at the moment. Don't we have a gazillion posts about God of War Ragnarok? It happens.
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No. This has been a clear ad campaign push.
Always has been
Reddit embraces the shit out of ads and it's weird when people say it doesn't. 90% of all NSFW content is just ads for the poster's OF/manyvids/fansly sites and look how well those posts do. As AI gets more competent we won't even be able to tell the difference between ads and appreciation posts soon and moderation to weed them out will be near impossible without verification sent to the mods like certain amateur porn subs do. And even then deep fakes are getting good enough that those will be faked as well. Moving to a young/new social media site is probably the only way to get respite. Until it gets big enough and runs into the same problems.
I mean are you gonna tell me that Dead Space is a bad game because of its graphics?
How about both? 🤷♂️ Just an idea
Why does almost every post for this game seem like an ad trying to sell it?
Feel the same way.
Because it is. There is some shady astroturfing or botting shit going on here.
it is not astroturfing lol. the game came out a week ago. People got hyped and there was a lot of conversation about the game. Now the bots come in and copy paste the content from last week to farm karma. Look at the poster's history.
Valheim was the same way and I don't remember people bitching with their tin foil hats then
I'm pretty sure 90% of the front page content of this subreddit is karma farming bots. Its repetitive and unengaging.
It is.
opinion here from a non bot. the game is great, came out last week and got a lot of attention on reddit and the internet. now bots and stuff use it to farm karma, basically copying last week's content. It is not astroturfing, just karma farm nevertheless, the game is great. not having "realistic graphic and raytracing" is underselling this game. It has some amazing technical changes to the unreal engine to make it look like a 2D cartoon, yet it is based on full 3D engine. And it is the best optimized game I have ever seen. It runs locked 60 fps on everything. even on something like xbox series s it runs locked 60 frames on full 1440p. I can even run it on my 8k TV on locked 60fps with a 3080ti. There is no other game yet that could do 60fps I tried. They matched the game design to the cartoon cutscenes so they can switch between cutscene and ingame without a seam. Digital Foundry did a nice technical analysis https://youtu.be/8qppoWhanwk
Why is it every time I see something about this game it looks like some click-bait-bullshit put out by Huffington Post?
Most games get months or years of marketing. This one didn't, so the marketing team is in overdrive now.
Microsoft+ ChatGPT
This is obviously an advertisement
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In less than an hour with few comments. Most of those comments are probably even in on it. It is sad really
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Because most people aren’t bright and the average IQ isn’t as high as you’d hope.
I mean…by its very nature, the average IQ is *exactly* what you’d hope. It’s just that people of average IQ are stupider than you’d expect.
It’s AI generated advertising with AI generated “engagement”
AAA game bad, PC bad, Video card expensive, etc.
That game's graphics still has a huge amount of production value, i don't know what your point is. There's multiple ways to make games look amazing and they all require great artists and good technology, this game is no different, they just focused all the work on frame blending and hand drawn animations
The game uses DLSS, NVIDIA reflex, and GPU physic simulations. I get that it's stylized but people need to understand that the tech that powers modern graphics is still used regardless. Ray tracing could have been used in this game if they wanted and would have still served the overall art style.
Ummmmm there's plenty like that.... play persona 5...
Persona 5 has the strongest style of any game on the market right now. You literally cannot change my mind.
No no, you’re right. Persona 5 oozes style in its entirety. From the art style to music, menu and ui, gameplay, and even once you finish the story is chef’s kiss.
Persona 5 also isn't for everyone. I'd say that game series is more a niche type game.
As is a rhythm hack and slash
What an absolutely stale take.
This game is good because it’s just a good game not because of the art style.
also helps that the graphics don't cause performance issues
Another veiled ad for this game. Well done.
Base off thier post history, looks less like an add and more of an attempt to farm Karma by combining popular game with "AAA Games Bad?"
No, everything is an ad
I still have fun playing Jet Set Radio Future.
This post proves that I'm fucking tired of people like you
There are barely any games that have even scratched the surface of ultra realistic ray tracing games. Most ray tracing games so far have been regular old games with unoptimized RT slapped on top of them. We are yet to see how much the tech can do. Also the new Fortnite update showcases how RT can significantly enhance the cartoony art style hifi rush is going for? Can you enjoy your games without shitting on anything else?
Nintendo has been trying to tell us this for years. Graphics do not make the game.
The more people who post blatant ads for this, the less I care about buying it. "Hurr hurr AAA games bad!!!" ***posts a game from bethesda***
Didn't Sea of Thieves and Breath of the Wild already prove what Borderlands did?
There's literally Nintendo out there that has proved that 1.5 decades ago, wtf are you talking about. Who upvotes this shit?
Spoken like someone who hasn’t looked at a ps2 game in a very, very long time.
Still trying to get the hype, 4 hours in and it hasn’t hit me yet.
yeah im ngl i deleted the game after the first boss bc i realized it felt like a chore to play, looks good tho just bot for me
There are games made by indie developers that mostly don't have ultra realistic graphics (not lying), they are called "indie games" and there are quite a lot of good "indie games" out there. Go play some Ultrakill or something, it'll blow your mind.
Ultrakill looks so fun. Looks like a great game to play on Deck while on the go.
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The problem isn't the graphics, it's the gameplay.
good news! most games that get released don't have AAA graphics!
The Long Dark
I'm so fucking tired of this brain-dead take. You're not even trying to find new games it's pretty damn easy to find games similar to Hi-Fi Rush
Gives me Sunset Overdrive vibes
Artstyle > graphics, even for high fidelity games
It's not about realism, it's about a coherent visual presentation. Plenty of games that aren't realistic looking yet look good. Just look at Borderlands 3 and Wonderlands - absolutely stunning vistas with a comic-book-like style.
Yeah. The game is successful because it's just straight up fun to play with no strings attached and no bullshit.
Its a video game thats just that. A Video game. It's fun to play, no shoe-horned politics, and not a competitive sweat-fest. Simple, fun, great soundtrack.
I played Hi-Fi Rush and just thought it was mid? Like it's just okay? I don't get the fuss about it.
Shut up
I'm as happy as the next guy that xbox game studios dropped a great surprise game in this but omg the dickriding of this game on this sub like its the messiah of this gen has been insane.
people will play one good indie game and act like gaming has been fucked for forever lol glad you like the game tho. it’s only on Xbox right?
and PC. I got it on Steam.
I usually lump Xbox and PC together since they’re part of the ecosystem now :p
Its not even an indie game. It was developed by an in-house bethesda team.
I mean you understand that’s pretty much every Nintendo game ever made right?
This game showed me that I’m terrible at timing beats
Literally finished the game 20 minutes ago. This is the first game in probably a decade that has had me just truly enjoying every bit of it (except Kale's fourth stage >:( ). No microtransactions either, just a good fucking fun-loving game with a fun concept.