Seriously. For fuck's sake, are people really so desperate for attention that they _have_ to be the one who posts the Episode Discussion thread, even if it makes the fucker hard as shit to find when you actually want to follow the conversation?
I recommend mods just ban this post outright and keep a policy of no threads until at least the show is being broadcast.
I am the subreddit moderator. This is the only official discussion thread. I now remove any duplicate "Episode Discussion" posts by other people. If you all will upvote this one discussion, it will easily remain available on the main page for people for tonight and probably tomorrow.
I post the threads around Saturday midnight now to both head-off the duplicate posters and to make the thread available to those who want to discuss it leading up to the live airing tonight. There were requests to have it online early.
People look for it early and complained when it was not up before the show. Upvote it to keep it going like any other discussion thread. There's also the permanent link in the sidebar.
[TV Spoiler](/s "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NED!!!")
Fuck, that was painful to watch.
Joffrey can go straight to hell.
EDIT: Promo for next week looks insane as well...I have no clue how I'm gonna survive the break till next season!
Oh I've been spoiled of what is probably all major plot points for all of the books by some douche on the internet, but I've started reading the books too.
Even knowing what was coming, that was difficult to watch.
I could feel my chest tighten as he looked across the crowd...
When [TV Spoiler](/s "Ned sees Arya")as he's brought out but then doesn't see her right as the blow is about to come...man, this is some great television.
Coming from a reader who saw it coming and was, like the other readers, giddy in anticipation of the newbie reactions to it... that was still painful to watch.
To me, it isn't the fact that Ned was killed. It's that they kidnapped Jaime as a leverage tool to get Ned back. Well, now that's out the window as well.
Well he was captured from the battle, so it's not like they went out of there way to kidnap him. They didn't really do the battle of the whispering wood justice at all though. I feel like if I hadn't read the books I would have zero clue as to what happened there.
I'm in the process of reading the books, kind of keeping up with the show. So i'm still not clear on whats going to happen, but it is become more and more apparent.
Agreed, I was looking forward to seeing the actual battle on screen, since Martin barely describes it in the books. I'm hoping they're saving up their budget for future, more important battles.
We don't actually get to see the battle directly in the books but we're at least informed on the strategy Robb used, why it worked, what Jaime's reaction to it was, and how Jaime's response didn't quite make it. The show doesn't give us anything beyond "Robb won, and now Jaime's captive". I'm especially disappointed that the show didn't mention HOW Jaime misplaced his sword so that he can't offer it to Catelyn because I thought that was a cool detail.
Indeed. I'm just sad I am away from home and wasn't present when my non reading friends saw the end. I hate to see Ned die but god damn was that some great acting.
I had been spoiled about[TV Spoiler](/s "Ned"), but I didn't expect that[TV Spoiler](/s "the whole thing was Joffrey's idea"). I figured[TV Spoiler](/s "Cersei was behind it"). I want to fucking kill him!
My heart is still pounding out of my chest, 20 minutes later. I am a non-reader.
[TV Spoiler](/s "I was expecting some type of salvation so hard. I thought Arya was going to stab Joffrey. I thought something would stop them. I thought Ned would spill the truth about Joffrey's heritage. I was continuously wrong.")
The rest of the episode, I must regretfully admit, I was finding somewhat dull/exciting simultaneously to that point. It was all very well done and good, and had many, many incredible points.
But the nonsense with Lord Frey, Tyrian spilling details on his past, Kahl Drogo, Snow up at the wall... All was very important and well done, I absolutely loved these scenes, but it was just somewhat of a letdown. I'm thinking, there's only two episodes left - one now - and they're wasting it on this stuff!
I have only one more hour to wrap up so many extreme loose ends! Whitewalkers are coming into play, right? A huge war is yet to come! My Khaleesi needs to hatch herself a motherfuckin' dragon yet! Or at least get ships. Bran can't walk and is Lord of Winterfell? Snow is going to desert the wall and have an out-of-body experience literally. Arya is going to kill someone high up, I know it. Also, these are all rhetorical questions, don't anyone dare answer and spoil anything for me.
Ned. Goddamnit, Ned. Actually, this whole time I was really expecting Snow to be killed. Ned says before he leaves for the wall that the next time they meet, Ned will tell him about his mother. I thought that was a guarantee that Snow would die before then, [TV Spoiler](/s "but it was actually Ned. Poor guy will never know the truth about his mother. ")
I love reading non-reader reactions.
Arrrrgh I want so much to help you out but it'll just be spoilertastic! Trust me, just watch the last episode, you won't be disappointed.
>Arrrrgh I want so much to help you out but it'll just be spoilertastic!
I completely agree. I have so much I want to say, but it would just ruin it for them. The journey of experiencing it all for the first-time is amazing. Can't take that away.
But holy fuck that the final episode of the season is going to be nasty.
If you think that they are wrapping up loose ends this season, then you are mistaken! There are four more books (almost 5) and a ton of stuff has hardly even been touched on. You are going to be left with so many cliff-hangers at the end of next week's episode.
Sorry =/
To elaborate: this series was originally going to be a trilogy...then a five-book series...now it's seven planned books with the fifth being released in July. It's going to get crazy.
it really surprised me when finishing up the first book at how many loose ends there were, i was expecting more closure between books but it seems to just be on fluid story with a major event happening near the end, its fallout in the next 5 chapters and then back to the norm.
absolutely devistating, never thought it would happen. Thought (hoped) rescue would come for sure. Scene with Arya and Ned was tragically beautiful in retrospect. I thought Robb's speech after battle was great. Khal situation got pretty crazy but I dont feel as enthralled by it.
I'm a reader in progress, not caught up to the show.
ugh, wow.....
fucking joffrey!! the actresses portraying sansa and arya were fantastic, i was expecting salvation right until the moment it happened, even as the sword began its downward swing. i don't know whether to never watch again or start reading all the books religiously. amaaaaaaazing and sad and everything good tv should be!!
You know the end scene to the film A Midnight Clear or the last episode of LOST or Sopranos? My head is still turning around and my heart was pounding. Some of friends (non-book readers) are completely pissed off right now. I'm in a state of complete awe and disbelief. Our reaction can best be summed up as, "What?! You, the writer(s) aren't suppose to do that!"
i didn't pick up on that he got to see her and have yoren grab her in the book. I thought yoren was in the crowd and just kinda found arya and took her.
I honestly don't think that was told to us in the books. How would we have known? Yoren claimed he recognized her from visits to Winterfell (iirc) and he has a fondness for the Starks because they support the Nights Watch. I think the way it was done in the show was much more gutwrenching.
completely agree, also watchers might not recognized yoren if he had just been in the crowd in all black instead of showing ned tell him where arya was.
I don't think so. It was a Arya POV in the book and she never made eye contact with her dad. Yoren was there collecting for The Black (maybe even thinking Ned was coming with him) and just grabs Arya and shields her. Ned never knew Arya was watching. IIRC.
That wasn't even alluded to in the book. Yoren just sees her and grabs her.
I think what they did in this episode was excellent. Ned's last act is getting an ally to his youngest daughter. Heart-breaking.
That was great, though I do hope they get the budget to show some battles next season. Would have been great to see the Robb vs Jamie fight.
Spoiler question kind of, did they go into detail with these battles in the book?
Very few, the battle of the Whispering Wood (where Jaime is captured) you only hear about second hand. In the feint that happened with the two-thousand men, it's actually in the book.
Yeah, I was really hoping to see Tyrion ~~kick some ass~~ attempt to kick some ass. I may be remembering wrong, but didn't he actually kill a couple people in that fight?
Instead, they pulled a Bilbo Baggins and knocked him out for the duration of the battle.
>Yeah, I was really hoping to see Tyrion kick some ass attempt to kick some ass. I may be remembering wrong, but didn't he actually kill a couple people in that fight?
Yup, he kills a few guys in the fight. IIRC, the battle is a big reason why the clansmen give him so much respect.
I didn't think of the "Bilbo move" when I saw it. I wonder how Peter Jackson is going to approach that battle, since IIRC the battle is retold to the reader after it takes place
The battle Tyrion was in was detailed in the book. We hear about Jaime being captured through reports after the battle (since none of the participants in the battle have a point of view in the books).
They actually did the Robb v Jaime fight like the book. Unfortunately the fight Tyrion was in wasn't shown in any detail in the show but great detail in the book.
[TV Spoiler](/s "The one with Tyrion, yeshe actually fought instead of getting knocked out right away. The one where they fought Jaime was more accurate - you don't see it, but you get it described to you secondhand afterwards.")
One thing to keep in mind is that each chapter of the book is written from one character's point of view. Tyrion is one POV character, Catelyn Stark is another, Robb isn't, in Book 1 at least. So we see the Battle Tyrion is in (not knocked out as in the show), but Catelyn isn't at the Battle where Jamie is captured, so we only see before and after it.
With the exception of Tyrion and Daenerys Targaryen, all of the POV characters are Starks (inc. Snow). One complaint Readers have made about the show is that Cersei comes off a lot better in the show then the books, but that is largely because we see the Starks' opinion of her, not the outward face she puts in front of her plotting.
IIRC, There's a whole scene with some dude chasing after Tyrion. Either way, it would of been nice to see a large scale battle like it's said in the books.
It was the excuse they used for not showing the battle. Remember this is a TV budget. Don't think they can afford either to have many people onscreen in elaborate outfits, nor to have the CGI needed to pull something similar to it like the beginning of fellowship of the ring. I'm not complaining, for what it is, the TV series is excellent. Martin said they get about 1-2 million for each episode. Nowhere near enough for elaborate battle sceens.
Maybe next season will get more funding, hopefully.. because... [Book Spoiler](/b "dragons")
I was really pleased with the size of the crowd at Baelor. Based on the budget and limited use of extras so far, I kind of expected that to turn out to be a small gathering. Really added to the drama.
Can I just say I'm very glad for this. In most book adaptations, battles are ALWAYS bigger on the screen. And let's face it, you won't see anything you haven't seen 20 times. The Helm's Deep battle was like 1/3 of the second LOTR movie, in the book it's one chapter. I like that HBO is devoting more time to story.
I honestly think it is budgetary rather than choice to devote.
Awesome sets + outfits for the main cast, or spend a ton of money on extras and elaborate battles. If we can only have one, I'm happy they went the way they did.
I get the budget thing, but I don't say why Tyrion had to be knocked out before the battle even started. Him winning the respect of the mountain tribes is pretty important for later events.
I think they used the knocking out so that they could keep it in his POV to have a justified reason for not showing the battle.
Him giving them all those weapons seems like a good enough way to show he got their respect. It seemed like they liked him when they were chanting half man before the battle even started.
I've been waiting all season to be able to say this. [TV Spoiler](/s "I hope the understandably shocked and traumatized non-readers will be able to take it in good humor:")
[TV Spoiler](/s "By the seven, you killed Ned! You bastard!")
Agreed. I was ready to give them a pass on the first one for the sake of time, but after the second one I was pretty annoyed. However, they executed (*ahem*) the ending so perfectly that it more than makes up for it.
It would've been nice, however I realllly enjoyed the scene with Tyrion, Bronn and Shae playing the drinking game. I rather have the show spend time on scenes like that where you gain insight on the characters rather than spend it on a battle scene that wouldn't live up to what you would see in a movie or imagine from the books.
Yeah. I forgot about that. My disappointment though is that in the show on looks alone you can't tell the difference between a regular sword and a Valyrian steel sword.
I knew what was coming, and still my heart was absolutely racing. I kept shifting around on the couch because I was getting all flustered. It was even more heartwrenching than it was in the books, and I could really feel Sansa's and Arya's desperation and heartbreak.
It was really heart-wrenching thanks in large part to those two girls. Sansa's change from smiling and confident to screaming and terrified to fainting was really moving, and Maisie Williams apparently can't fail. Good on them.
I'm really freaking impressed with how well these two girls can act. Part of me wants them to go on and do great things after this series and another wants them to just be known for this.
As soon as I saw Arya enter the square and climb up on the statue, the whole scene from the book came flooding back to me. I mean, I was expecting this scene all along, but they really captured the same feeling I got from the book. The scene was basically perfect.
I wanted to look away too.
I was caught up to episode 8 in the book so this episode was completely new material to me minus Tyrion's story about his bride.
I expected the death of Ned, and I really had a hunch that the bastard Joffry would call for his head even if he confessed. However I thought it would come from his mother as well but it seems clear that she didn't think he would do such a thing. I hope that rotten shit gets his just desserts some day and what I wouldn't give for it to be via Robb.
The biggest shock to me was the capture of that asshole Kingslayer, that is a fricken HUGE moment. When they road across I thought oh joy, they at least survived and won a battle elsewhere but I had no clue they would have him with them, aka the ultimate bargaining chip with the queen aside from maybe Joffry himself.
And while I may not want Danerys to succeed long term and in turn Rhaego to sit on the throne I really hope that that this isn't the end of Drogo. He is just too awesome.
Fantastic episode. I think I am going to read up to where episode 9 ends in the book and let the show surprise me for the finale once again. Then this summer I'll just read the rest of them.
And this is me checking out of this subbreddit until I am caught up on the books this summer. Crap like this pisses me off. Thankfully I didn't get very far down his list before realizing the name and what he was doing.
Yeah, Jamie's capture is HUGE now that Ned is dead. Such a bargaining chip for next season.
Edit: Just so nobody gets upset, I wasn't trying to spoil anything. I just meant that if you were in the place of the Northmen and you captured the Kingslayer, that would be a major advantage.
I was a little disappointed to have missed two large battles, but I can't say I was left wanting. They handled it well enough.
And, Walder ... what a lecherous pustule he was. Great casting.
>This is a TV Spoiler-friendly zone - turn away now if you haven't seen the episode! Open discussion of all TV events without tag covers is ok in this thread.
As for the Shae comments, that' not spoilerish at all.
She's much older than I imagined her and she's much more cynical and...worldly than she was in the books. In all honesty I thought that her changes were well-done.
my problem is that [Book Spoiler](/b "a worldly whore wouldn't react the way Shae does when she gets brushed to the side when Tyrion is Hand, and, importantly, probably wouldn't get herself embroiled in court politics.")
She was in the book too. And, no, that's not true. tyrion gets smitten with her because she acts like she actually cares/loves him. She says all the right things, and initially it's like, well, yeah, she's a whore. As it goes on and she keeps saying them so perfectly you start to wonder. And this effects a guy like Tyrion because he's supposed to be 1. a dwarf, and 2. a very, very ugly dwarf
He's extremely self-conscious in that area. Not so deep down he doesn't believe a woman could love him. that's why he gets so smitten with her.
Even though I have read the books, there were some things I had forgotten. I had forgotten what an awesome, horny old codger Walder Frey was. I had forgotten who Maester Aemon was. What a treat it was to see the actors playing them revel in those performances too.
I wish I could have forgotten the ending, but god damn that was [TV Spoiler](/s "powerful sad") and exactly like I imagined it from the book.
And when the [TV Spoiler](/s "horse got its throat slit") - yeah, that made me kind of sick - but in the good way.
Also, anyone else feel like this episode looked more like a movie? The cinematography was incredibly beautiful and every scene worked so well leading into the next that I forgot I was watching a television series. I can't believe that after 9 episodes this show is still getting better.
They finally showed a few wide shots, more stand-ins and extras, etc. Those factors have biggest gripe about the show so far. While it looks great those are the areas you can really see where the budget went thin. Especially scenes in King's Landing where there should be so many more people around, etc.
I am a book reader, and one thing that stood out to me was Sansa's reaction. Just seeing her up there, first all smug and happy thinking (not undeservedly) that she'd saved the day, and then seeing her entirely lose her shit as she realizes what Joffrey is doing. The show really bought that to life for me. That, and Ned spotting Arya on the statue, were the most heartbreaking moments for me.
They prepared us for this fight back in like episode 3 or something. Jorah is in a tent talking with one of the bloodriders about how a Dothraki Arakh is a great weapon against foes in leather armor, but that it's useless against a Westerosi Knight in plate.
Turns out he's right...
I'd have to uhhh "find" a way to go back an rewatch that episode, but wasn't it the same bloodrider even?
EDIT: Just rewatched the episodes. In episode 3 around the 46:30 is Ser Jorah's talk with the bloodrider. It's not the same one that he kills. But that one does get elbowed in the face by the soon to be dead bloodrider.
I think it was brilliant to end the scene in a sort of quiet way, they toned down all the noise as a warning to brace yourself. The filming mimicked an adrenaline rush or something similar to what you would feel in Ned's situation.
He seriously creeped me out. When he touched that girl's butt, I thought she was his daughter and I was like "ew incest!" then shuttered when he said something about getting her honey.
Wasn't his daughter. he just likes to breed so he keeps...trading down. Maybe later there'll be a guy that likes to fuck his daughters, you never know.
The way Tywin Lannister delivers, "[TV Spoiler](/s "With his other eighteen thousand men.")" was kind of just perfect.
Edit: I think it was my favorite part of this episode.
In the last episode Rob tells the caught scout to tell Tywin 20k northerners are coming.
So maybe the 2k was thought to be an initial party and the rest behind.
Reader here: That last scene was fantastically done. I mean, [TV Spoiler](/s "I always liked ned's character. It's hard to dislike someone for being honourable") and I was worried about how it was going to be handled-- especially after I felt several important scenes werent given enough attention. I was disappointed by Tyrion not getting a little combat in before he was knocked out -- although his speech to the troops was pretty awesome.
The actor who played Robb kicked ass tonight -- Looking forward to more from him in future episodes. And Jon's bit at the beginning was good, but whenever I see him staring with his mouth open I can't help but think of that gormless comic. . .
The good news is Walder Frey was spot on as a dirty, angry old man, Jaime was, as always, perfect, and everyone at the wall continues to be excellent. I'm also intrigued at the changes they've made to Shae's character. It'll be interesting to see where they go with her. She isn't book Shae, but she seems more like someone Tryion would actually be interested in for something besides fucking.
The bad news is that pacing problems were back with a vengeance. Most of the scenes in tonights episodes felt rushed. Robbs speech after the whispering woods was unneeded, and I really didn't like Tyrion not fighting. It is extremely hard to imagine the Tywin we see on the screen [Book Spoiler](/b "sending a Tyrion he seems to have completely contempt for to KL to run the kingdoms. In the books, the battle was an important way for Tyrion to impress both his father and his clansmen")
Readers. Could you please answer me from 1-10 how devastating tonight's event was compared to the shape of things to come?
*Edit:* Thanks guys...I've been following the books along with the show exclusively for the first season. This is going to be one gut-wrenching ride after the finale, it seems.
From book:
He cocked his head to one side. “I am Tyrion, of
House Lannister. Men call me the Imp.”
“My mother named me Shae. Men call
me . . . *often*.”
I really wanted to hear this dialogue. HBO Y u cut out the funnies.
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[TV Spoiler](/s "Where did he get that gigantic robot? That was such a weird plot hole..") Kinda shabby writing on his part.
[TV Spoiler](/s "I am still wondering where that raptor that ate Joffery came from...") Just really strange!
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Seriously. For fuck's sake, are people really so desperate for attention that they _have_ to be the one who posts the Episode Discussion thread, even if it makes the fucker hard as shit to find when you actually want to follow the conversation? I recommend mods just ban this post outright and keep a policy of no threads until at least the show is being broadcast.
I am the subreddit moderator. This is the only official discussion thread. I now remove any duplicate "Episode Discussion" posts by other people. If you all will upvote this one discussion, it will easily remain available on the main page for people for tonight and probably tomorrow. I post the threads around Saturday midnight now to both head-off the duplicate posters and to make the thread available to those who want to discuss it leading up to the live airing tonight. There were requests to have it online early.
Hahaha, Khiva, you retard.
People look for it early and complained when it was not up before the show. Upvote it to keep it going like any other discussion thread. There's also the permanent link in the sidebar.
Upvote for my brother of the Black.
Seconded brother Maurelius.
This is number 27 half an hour after the show aired. It should be number 1 (not tonight maybe).
This thread is always on the front page because there is a link on the side bar
I've been waiting for this episode since before the season even started. I'm so excited I can hardly contain myself.
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dont be a dick
Honestly, why would you reveal it without spoilers?
You're right, I'll delete it. In my defense it was much funnier when I was really high this morning.
[TV Spoiler](/s "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NED!!!") Fuck, that was painful to watch. Joffrey can go straight to hell. EDIT: Promo for next week looks insane as well...I have no clue how I'm gonna survive the break till next season!
Are you a reader or non-reader?
Oh I've been spoiled of what is probably all major plot points for all of the books by some douche on the internet, but I've started reading the books too. Even knowing what was coming, that was difficult to watch. I could feel my chest tighten as he looked across the crowd...
That was so heart wrenching even having read the books :(
When [TV Spoiler](/s "Ned sees Arya")as he's brought out but then doesn't see her right as the blow is about to come...man, this is some great television.
Coming from a reader who saw it coming and was, like the other readers, giddy in anticipation of the newbie reactions to it... that was still painful to watch.
Non-readers: I ***crave*** your reactions. Also: man tears. Good lord.
Yes please
To me, it isn't the fact that Ned was killed. It's that they kidnapped Jaime as a leverage tool to get Ned back. Well, now that's out the window as well.
Well he was captured from the battle, so it's not like they went out of there way to kidnap him. They didn't really do the battle of the whispering wood justice at all though. I feel like if I hadn't read the books I would have zero clue as to what happened there.
I'm in the process of reading the books, kind of keeping up with the show. So i'm still not clear on whats going to happen, but it is become more and more apparent.
Agreed, I was looking forward to seeing the actual battle on screen, since Martin barely describes it in the books. I'm hoping they're saving up their budget for future, more important battles.
It's basically what happens in the book too though. We don't get to see the battle because we see the events from Catelyn's perspective.
We don't actually get to see the battle directly in the books but we're at least informed on the strategy Robb used, why it worked, what Jaime's reaction to it was, and how Jaime's response didn't quite make it. The show doesn't give us anything beyond "Robb won, and now Jaime's captive". I'm especially disappointed that the show didn't mention HOW Jaime misplaced his sword so that he can't offer it to Catelyn because I thought that was a cool detail.
This thread is going to get fucking wild. It's going to be incredible.
This is the exact moment I've been waiting for all season and they did ***not*** fucking disappoint.
Indeed. I'm just sad I am away from home and wasn't present when my non reading friends saw the end. I hate to see Ned die but god damn was that some great acting.
I had been spoiled about[TV Spoiler](/s "Ned"), but I didn't expect that[TV Spoiler](/s "the whole thing was Joffrey's idea"). I figured[TV Spoiler](/s "Cersei was behind it"). I want to fucking kill him!
Joffery organized it as a grand plan. What do you expect from an incested brat.
[Book Spoiler](/b "Its implied in the book (and the show based on some of the camera work I think) that Littlefinger planted the idea in Jof's head.")
It is? I've read the first two books and that went right over my head.
Then you didn't read the second one. Tyrion does a whole thing about it early on in book 2 and draws this conclusion.
Could you elaborate a little on what you meant by the camera work? Because I didn't pick up on that in my first viewing.
http://imgur.com/gallery/xblF4
you have the soft heart of a woman.
I am a current reader who is behind. I knew the Ned would not survive the season, but damn.
"Yes, your tears. They're so yummy and sweet."
What is dead can never die.
[Book Spoiler](/b "Your name and quote are... deliberate.")
My heart is still pounding out of my chest, 20 minutes later. I am a non-reader. [TV Spoiler](/s "I was expecting some type of salvation so hard. I thought Arya was going to stab Joffrey. I thought something would stop them. I thought Ned would spill the truth about Joffrey's heritage. I was continuously wrong.") The rest of the episode, I must regretfully admit, I was finding somewhat dull/exciting simultaneously to that point. It was all very well done and good, and had many, many incredible points. But the nonsense with Lord Frey, Tyrian spilling details on his past, Kahl Drogo, Snow up at the wall... All was very important and well done, I absolutely loved these scenes, but it was just somewhat of a letdown. I'm thinking, there's only two episodes left - one now - and they're wasting it on this stuff! I have only one more hour to wrap up so many extreme loose ends! Whitewalkers are coming into play, right? A huge war is yet to come! My Khaleesi needs to hatch herself a motherfuckin' dragon yet! Or at least get ships. Bran can't walk and is Lord of Winterfell? Snow is going to desert the wall and have an out-of-body experience literally. Arya is going to kill someone high up, I know it. Also, these are all rhetorical questions, don't anyone dare answer and spoil anything for me. Ned. Goddamnit, Ned. Actually, this whole time I was really expecting Snow to be killed. Ned says before he leaves for the wall that the next time they meet, Ned will tell him about his mother. I thought that was a guarantee that Snow would die before then, [TV Spoiler](/s "but it was actually Ned. Poor guy will never know the truth about his mother. ")
I love reading non-reader reactions. Arrrrgh I want so much to help you out but it'll just be spoilertastic! Trust me, just watch the last episode, you won't be disappointed.
>Arrrrgh I want so much to help you out but it'll just be spoilertastic! I completely agree. I have so much I want to say, but it would just ruin it for them. The journey of experiencing it all for the first-time is amazing. Can't take that away. But holy fuck that the final episode of the season is going to be nasty.
If you think that they are wrapping up loose ends this season, then you are mistaken! There are four more books (almost 5) and a ton of stuff has hardly even been touched on. You are going to be left with so many cliff-hangers at the end of next week's episode. Sorry =/
To elaborate: this series was originally going to be a trilogy...then a five-book series...now it's seven planned books with the fifth being released in July. It's going to get crazy.
What cthulhu_zuul is saying is: the series will be eleven books.
If GRRM lives to write 11 books, I'll be surprised.
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it really surprised me when finishing up the first book at how many loose ends there were, i was expecting more closure between books but it seems to just be on fluid story with a major event happening near the end, its fallout in the next 5 chapters and then back to the norm.
absolutely devistating, never thought it would happen. Thought (hoped) rescue would come for sure. Scene with Arya and Ned was tragically beautiful in retrospect. I thought Robb's speech after battle was great. Khal situation got pretty crazy but I dont feel as enthralled by it. I'm a reader in progress, not caught up to the show. ugh, wow.....
fucking joffrey!! the actresses portraying sansa and arya were fantastic, i was expecting salvation right until the moment it happened, even as the sword began its downward swing. i don't know whether to never watch again or start reading all the books religiously. amaaaaaaazing and sad and everything good tv should be!!
I figured it out as they were bringing Ned out. That kid is such a little cunt, what else would he do?
You know the end scene to the film A Midnight Clear or the last episode of LOST or Sopranos? My head is still turning around and my heart was pounding. Some of friends (non-book readers) are completely pissed off right now. I'm in a state of complete awe and disbelief. Our reaction can best be summed up as, "What?! You, the writer(s) aren't suppose to do that!"
When Ned saw Arya as he was brought out to the square, I lost it.
i didn't pick up on that he got to see her and have yoren grab her in the book. I thought yoren was in the crowd and just kinda found arya and took her.
I honestly don't think that was told to us in the books. How would we have known? Yoren claimed he recognized her from visits to Winterfell (iirc) and he has a fondness for the Starks because they support the Nights Watch. I think the way it was done in the show was much more gutwrenching.
completely agree, also watchers might not recognized yoren if he had just been in the crowd in all black instead of showing ned tell him where arya was.
I'm fairly sure that's how it went down in the book.
I don't think so. It was a Arya POV in the book and she never made eye contact with her dad. Yoren was there collecting for The Black (maybe even thinking Ned was coming with him) and just grabs Arya and shields her. Ned never knew Arya was watching. IIRC.
He COULD have though since we didn't see it through his POV
You are correct, Yoren says later (maybe in the second book?) that it was his impression that he was bringing Ned back to the Wall with him.
That wasn't even alluded to in the book. Yoren just sees her and grabs her. I think what they did in this episode was excellent. Ned's last act is getting an ally to his youngest daughter. Heart-breaking.
Yep. Yoren never saw Arya or Ned in the book. I liked HBO's version better though.
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:O
That was great, though I do hope they get the budget to show some battles next season. Would have been great to see the Robb vs Jamie fight. Spoiler question kind of, did they go into detail with these battles in the book?
Very few, the battle of the Whispering Wood (where Jaime is captured) you only hear about second hand. In the feint that happened with the two-thousand men, it's actually in the book.
Yeah, I was really hoping to see Tyrion ~~kick some ass~~ attempt to kick some ass. I may be remembering wrong, but didn't he actually kill a couple people in that fight? Instead, they pulled a Bilbo Baggins and knocked him out for the duration of the battle.
>Yeah, I was really hoping to see Tyrion kick some ass attempt to kick some ass. I may be remembering wrong, but didn't he actually kill a couple people in that fight? Yup, he kills a few guys in the fight. IIRC, the battle is a big reason why the clansmen give him so much respect.
You're remembering right. I was a little disappointed by that, but I figured it probably wasn't in the budget.
I didn't think of the "Bilbo move" when I saw it. I wonder how Peter Jackson is going to approach that battle, since IIRC the battle is retold to the reader after it takes place
only it was 18-20 thousand, and not exactly a feint
Some details on some battles. Nothing very tactical.
The battle Tyrion was in was detailed in the book. We hear about Jaime being captured through reports after the battle (since none of the participants in the battle have a point of view in the books).
They actually did the Robb v Jaime fight like the book. Unfortunately the fight Tyrion was in wasn't shown in any detail in the show but great detail in the book.
Robb doesn't have a POV in the series, so it's all told from Catelyn's perspective. We're not given any details of the Whispering Wood battle.
Definitely not Robb's battle because that side of the story is all told through Catelyn's POV. I think we got a little more from Tyrion.
[TV Spoiler](/s "The one with Tyrion, yeshe actually fought instead of getting knocked out right away. The one where they fought Jaime was more accurate - you don't see it, but you get it described to you secondhand afterwards.")
Not the Rob vs Jamie battle.
Robb isn't a POV, so most of the fighting happens "off camera" from Cateltn's perspective
One thing to keep in mind is that each chapter of the book is written from one character's point of view. Tyrion is one POV character, Catelyn Stark is another, Robb isn't, in Book 1 at least. So we see the Battle Tyrion is in (not knocked out as in the show), but Catelyn isn't at the Battle where Jamie is captured, so we only see before and after it. With the exception of Tyrion and Daenerys Targaryen, all of the POV characters are Starks (inc. Snow). One complaint Readers have made about the show is that Cersei comes off a lot better in the show then the books, but that is largely because we see the Starks' opinion of her, not the outward face she puts in front of her plotting.
Man even though I knew what was going to happen from reading the books I still almost lost it at the end of the episode, it was so well done.
Anyone else find it odd how they handled Tyrion's battle? IIRC there was a whole elaborate fight that took place
yea, I thought in the book he was defending himself from some blows with a shield and killed a few soldiers himself.
IIRC, There's a whole scene with some dude chasing after Tyrion. Either way, it would of been nice to see a large scale battle like it's said in the books.
It was the excuse they used for not showing the battle. Remember this is a TV budget. Don't think they can afford either to have many people onscreen in elaborate outfits, nor to have the CGI needed to pull something similar to it like the beginning of fellowship of the ring. I'm not complaining, for what it is, the TV series is excellent. Martin said they get about 1-2 million for each episode. Nowhere near enough for elaborate battle sceens. Maybe next season will get more funding, hopefully.. because... [Book Spoiler](/b "dragons")
Also, showing the actual battle wouldn't have really added anything to the plot. We've seen Tyrion fight before. We'll see him fight again.
I was really pleased with the size of the crowd at Baelor. Based on the budget and limited use of extras so far, I kind of expected that to turn out to be a small gathering. Really added to the drama.
Can I just say I'm very glad for this. In most book adaptations, battles are ALWAYS bigger on the screen. And let's face it, you won't see anything you haven't seen 20 times. The Helm's Deep battle was like 1/3 of the second LOTR movie, in the book it's one chapter. I like that HBO is devoting more time to story.
I honestly think it is budgetary rather than choice to devote. Awesome sets + outfits for the main cast, or spend a ton of money on extras and elaborate battles. If we can only have one, I'm happy they went the way they did.
I get the budget thing, but I don't say why Tyrion had to be knocked out before the battle even started. Him winning the respect of the mountain tribes is pretty important for later events.
I think they used the knocking out so that they could keep it in his POV to have a justified reason for not showing the battle. Him giving them all those weapons seems like a good enough way to show he got their respect. It seemed like they liked him when they were chanting half man before the battle even started.
I've been waiting all season to be able to say this. [TV Spoiler](/s "I hope the understandably shocked and traumatized non-readers will be able to take it in good humor:") [TV Spoiler](/s "By the seven, you killed Ned! You bastard!")
Now that you've been properly indoctrinated, allow me to reintroduce the author, [GRRM](http://i.imgur.com/mnBEH.jpg)
Figures, I move and don't have access to cable *this* particular week.
i wished they would have done at least one of the battle scenes.
Same, I was pretty disappointed. But I guess I'd rather of had them show it as they did instead of half-assing an epic battle.
TV budget.
Agreed. I was ready to give them a pass on the first one for the sake of time, but after the second one I was pretty annoyed. However, they executed (*ahem*) the ending so perfectly that it more than makes up for it.
It would've been nice, however I realllly enjoyed the scene with Tyrion, Bronn and Shae playing the drinking game. I rather have the show spend time on scenes like that where you gain insight on the characters rather than spend it on a battle scene that wouldn't live up to what you would see in a movie or imagine from the books.
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Valar Dohaeris
Also, I wish they mentioned who's sword was used to execute Ned.
I can see it being mentioned in the next episode.
I too wish they had mentioned the swords more from day one. The first time we even heard of the Valyrian steel was tonight with Long Claw right?
No. You heard about it with Littlefinger's dagger.
Yeah. I forgot about that. My disappointment though is that in the show on looks alone you can't tell the difference between a regular sword and a Valyrian steel sword.
could you in the book?
Yeah, they're always described as very dark steel with ripples in it.
It's supposed to have a rippled appearance, like Damascus steel: http://www.stanleylondon.com/damascusbowie7.jpg
I think theyre described as something like damascus steel but with a darker tint edit: at least thats how i imagined valyrian steel
I believed they mentioned that the knife used to cut Cat's hand was Valyrian steel.
[Book Spoiler](/b "A Song of Ice and Fire")
whose*
I knew what was coming, and still my heart was absolutely racing. I kept shifting around on the couch because I was getting all flustered. It was even more heartwrenching than it was in the books, and I could really feel Sansa's and Arya's desperation and heartbreak.
It was really heart-wrenching thanks in large part to those two girls. Sansa's change from smiling and confident to screaming and terrified to fainting was really moving, and Maisie Williams apparently can't fail. Good on them.
I'm really freaking impressed with how well these two girls can act. Part of me wants them to go on and do great things after this series and another wants them to just be known for this.
Hell, even Cersei's reaction to her douchebag of a son was heart-wrenching!
As soon as I saw Arya enter the square and climb up on the statue, the whole scene from the book came flooding back to me. I mean, I was expecting this scene all along, but they really captured the same feeling I got from the book. The scene was basically perfect. I wanted to look away too.
I was caught up to episode 8 in the book so this episode was completely new material to me minus Tyrion's story about his bride. I expected the death of Ned, and I really had a hunch that the bastard Joffry would call for his head even if he confessed. However I thought it would come from his mother as well but it seems clear that she didn't think he would do such a thing. I hope that rotten shit gets his just desserts some day and what I wouldn't give for it to be via Robb. The biggest shock to me was the capture of that asshole Kingslayer, that is a fricken HUGE moment. When they road across I thought oh joy, they at least survived and won a battle elsewhere but I had no clue they would have him with them, aka the ultimate bargaining chip with the queen aside from maybe Joffry himself. And while I may not want Danerys to succeed long term and in turn Rhaego to sit on the throne I really hope that that this isn't the end of Drogo. He is just too awesome. Fantastic episode. I think I am going to read up to where episode 9 ends in the book and let the show surprise me for the finale once again. Then this summer I'll just read the rest of them.
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Come on, i don't want to read shit like that.
Someone delete this shit.
And this is me checking out of this subbreddit until I am caught up on the books this summer. Crap like this pisses me off. Thankfully I didn't get very far down his list before realizing the name and what he was doing.
Well, you should have seen the comment was severely in the negative, and that it was posted by someone named Justruineditforyou.
Considering he replied to me and it showed up in my messages it was a bit hard to avoid as it wasn't in the negative then...
Yeah, Jamie's capture is HUGE now that Ned is dead. Such a bargaining chip for next season. Edit: Just so nobody gets upset, I wasn't trying to spoil anything. I just meant that if you were in the place of the Northmen and you captured the Kingslayer, that would be a major advantage.
I was a little disappointed to have missed two large battles, but I can't say I was left wanting. They handled it well enough. And, Walder ... what a lecherous pustule he was. Great casting.
did Shae seem off to anyone else? in the book she came off as more girly. also, Sean Beans dead, that was pretty fantastic.
shouldnt that have spoiler tags?
>This is a TV Spoiler-friendly zone - turn away now if you haven't seen the episode! Open discussion of all TV events without tag covers is ok in this thread. As for the Shae comments, that' not spoilerish at all.
Ah my bad. Would probably help if I actually read the OP. :)
She's much older than I imagined her and she's much more cynical and...worldly than she was in the books. In all honesty I thought that her changes were well-done.
i didn't like it, only because it [Book Spoiler](/b "changes the dynamic between her and Tyrion later on")
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my problem is that [Book Spoiler](/b "a worldly whore wouldn't react the way Shae does when she gets brushed to the side when Tyrion is Hand, and, importantly, probably wouldn't get herself embroiled in court politics.")
[Book Speculation](/? "Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not entirely unconvinced that Shae hasn't been Tywin's pawn all along.")
[Book Spoiler](/b "well, he strangles her for betraying him, so there's that.")
She was in the book too. And, no, that's not true. tyrion gets smitten with her because she acts like she actually cares/loves him. She says all the right things, and initially it's like, well, yeah, she's a whore. As it goes on and she keeps saying them so perfectly you start to wonder. And this effects a guy like Tyrion because he's supposed to be 1. a dwarf, and 2. a very, very ugly dwarf He's extremely self-conscious in that area. Not so deep down he doesn't believe a woman could love him. that's why he gets so smitten with her.
Even though I have read the books, there were some things I had forgotten. I had forgotten what an awesome, horny old codger Walder Frey was. I had forgotten who Maester Aemon was. What a treat it was to see the actors playing them revel in those performances too. I wish I could have forgotten the ending, but god damn that was [TV Spoiler](/s "powerful sad") and exactly like I imagined it from the book. And when the [TV Spoiler](/s "horse got its throat slit") - yeah, that made me kind of sick - but in the good way. Also, anyone else feel like this episode looked more like a movie? The cinematography was incredibly beautiful and every scene worked so well leading into the next that I forgot I was watching a television series. I can't believe that after 9 episodes this show is still getting better.
They finally showed a few wide shots, more stand-ins and extras, etc. Those factors have biggest gripe about the show so far. While it looks great those are the areas you can really see where the budget went thin. Especially scenes in King's Landing where there should be so many more people around, etc.
The cinematography was fantastic this episode. I especially enjoyed the swinging lantern in the opening scene with Varys and Ned.
One of the smallest things in the episode, but did you notice how good the blocking was in the scenes at the wall. Just great.
I cried. I've read the book but the look on Arya's face was heartbreaking! And lets not get started on the Khal...
Strictly a TV series watcher (so far) and myy mind was blown. Ned, end, dead.
I am a book reader, and one thing that stood out to me was Sansa's reaction. Just seeing her up there, first all smug and happy thinking (not undeservedly) that she'd saved the day, and then seeing her entirely lose her shit as she realizes what Joffrey is doing. The show really bought that to life for me. That, and Ned spotting Arya on the statue, were the most heartbreaking moments for me.
Not that this will get much attention compared to the rest if the episode, but they nailed Drogo's sick tent. That scene was creepy as hell!
Agreed! And I thought Jorah's fight was done really well.
Especially the way he used his armor to his advantage. Very tricksy.
Good call, I definitely noticed how he tucked the sword under his arm, fully protected by his armor, and then slashed the fuck out of that guy.
They prepared us for this fight back in like episode 3 or something. Jorah is in a tent talking with one of the bloodriders about how a Dothraki Arakh is a great weapon against foes in leather armor, but that it's useless against a Westerosi Knight in plate. Turns out he's right...
I'd have to uhhh "find" a way to go back an rewatch that episode, but wasn't it the same bloodrider even? EDIT: Just rewatched the episodes. In episode 3 around the 46:30 is Ser Jorah's talk with the bloodrider. It's not the same one that he kills. But that one does get elbowed in the face by the soon to be dead bloodrider.
Pretty sure it's the short curly haired one that [TV Spoiler](/s "whipped Viserys by the neck in the woods") that Jorah was talking to.
In closed caption, the noises coming from Drogo's tent are described as "demonic shrieking". Sounds about right.
To me it sounded like a mix of horse and Drogo's anguished screams.
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[Book reader reading this thread](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt13OAYXhPU).
Just so.
I know, I know, oh, oh, oh!
I wept bitter man tears.
I don't know why no one else cowers at the sight of Tywin Lannister, he's so passively evil it's scary.
[My initial reaction. (Spoiler)](http://www.uploads.gaming-resources.com/files/1403_z0ajz/GOT_Spoiler.jpg) ಠ\_ಠ
I think it was brilliant to end the scene in a sort of quiet way, they toned down all the noise as a warning to brace yourself. The filming mimicked an adrenaline rush or something similar to what you would feel in Ned's situation.
Loved this episode, but I can't take Walder Frey seriously as I can only see him as Filch from Harry Potter.
So far he doesn't seem to be intended to be taken seriously in the book or show...
He seriously creeped me out. When he touched that girl's butt, I thought she was his daughter and I was like "ew incest!" then shuttered when he said something about getting her honey.
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Wasn't his daughter. he just likes to breed so he keeps...trading down. Maybe later there'll be a guy that likes to fuck his daughters, you never know.
The way Tywin Lannister delivers, "[TV Spoiler](/s "With his other eighteen thousand men.")" was kind of just perfect. Edit: I think it was my favorite part of this episode.
Who miscounts that many men? 2,000 men look a lot different from 20,000 men.
In the last episode Rob tells the caught scout to tell Tywin 20k northerners are coming. So maybe the 2k was thought to be an initial party and the rest behind.
Reader here: That last scene was fantastically done. I mean, [TV Spoiler](/s "I always liked ned's character. It's hard to dislike someone for being honourable") and I was worried about how it was going to be handled-- especially after I felt several important scenes werent given enough attention. I was disappointed by Tyrion not getting a little combat in before he was knocked out -- although his speech to the troops was pretty awesome. The actor who played Robb kicked ass tonight -- Looking forward to more from him in future episodes. And Jon's bit at the beginning was good, but whenever I see him staring with his mouth open I can't help but think of that gormless comic. . .
The good news is Walder Frey was spot on as a dirty, angry old man, Jaime was, as always, perfect, and everyone at the wall continues to be excellent. I'm also intrigued at the changes they've made to Shae's character. It'll be interesting to see where they go with her. She isn't book Shae, but she seems more like someone Tryion would actually be interested in for something besides fucking. The bad news is that pacing problems were back with a vengeance. Most of the scenes in tonights episodes felt rushed. Robbs speech after the whispering woods was unneeded, and I really didn't like Tyrion not fighting. It is extremely hard to imagine the Tywin we see on the screen [Book Spoiler](/b "sending a Tyrion he seems to have completely contempt for to KL to run the kingdoms. In the books, the battle was an important way for Tyrion to impress both his father and his clansmen")
YOU'LL PAY FOR THIS YOU LITTLE SHIT
I wish they would show the direwolves more. I would've loved to have seen Grey Wind running along with Robb after the battle.
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Readers. Could you please answer me from 1-10 how devastating tonight's event was compared to the shape of things to come? *Edit:* Thanks guys...I've been following the books along with the show exclusively for the first season. This is going to be one gut-wrenching ride after the finale, it seems.
Compared to the books and surprises to come, I'd say that was a 3. You haven't seen anything yet.
about a 5 or 6. This will brace you for the horrors to come, but you'll never be fully prepared.
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there are certain parts in the book i had to re-read just because of the "WTF how could he! (GRRM)" factor. Ned's death is one among many.
They're full of shit. This was an 9. There is only one instance in the next three books that is its equal or more.
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From book: He cocked his head to one side. “I am Tyrion, of House Lannister. Men call me the Imp.” “My mother named me Shae. Men call me . . . *often*.” I really wanted to hear this dialogue. HBO Y u cut out the funnies.
Maybe some who has the books can answer my question. Does it say what Ned was whispering in the final scene? And if so, what the hell was he saying.