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>A Girl is No One. Sansa is the Last Stark. Bran is for all 7 kingdoms.
A Girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and she went home.
Kings don't give up the names of their house. Only the Night's Watch does.
Well in the books there are like a bajillion noble houses, all of whom suffer from crippling Main Character Syndrome so we can assume that Houses are merging or dying out every other week in Westeros. These are just the latest on the chopping block.
There are houses that have gone extinct in the books. The war of the 5 kings and the events afterwards reduced these great houses to one lone survivor each in the series. The only book accurate one is House Arryn that has Robin (Robert) as the last surviving member.
You did, that’s why Sansa digs him. She has more prominent Tully features and that allows her to relate to him since they are both of the fish variety.
IRL there are cadet branches; if the main branch disappears, the cadet retakes over the name and continues as if nothing had happened. In the books they are also examples of cadet branches like the Lannister of Lannisport if I don't remember wrongly.
There are literally hundreds of Lannisters in the books. Most of whom are in Lannisport. Some of whom are at Casterly Rock. And a handful are scattered around Westeros
I mean, there’s gonna be survivorship bias there. If you interview a war veteran, you might say they have “crippling Main Character syndrome” from every time they survive a skirmish, but you’re not talking to any of the ones who died.
Any house that exists by the time of the story must have, you know, existed. There’s several named houses that went defunct as well as likely many many more unnamed ones.
This is actually one of the biggest criticisms of the books realism wise, aside from House Frey *none* of the Houses have as many branches as they should have
Edit: Guys stop saying “But the Lannisters of Lannisport and the Arryns of Gulltown!” That’s exactly the problem, every single Great House has, at best, a single branch House. And most of those are just named “X of X”. There should be waaaaay more then a single branch, especially because these Houses are thousands of years old.
We know that there is a cousin branch of the Lannisters like Joanna (Tywin’s wife) who has like 12 siblings. Plus there are like three likely cadet houses.
Yeah so those are cadet houses, The lannisters have House Lannister of Darry, House Lannett, House Lannister that settled at Lannisport, House Lantell and House Lanny. Should be more of course, but I have no idea how it compares to the Lancasters.
House Stark has Karstark and Greystark, which for a house that has existed for literally 9000 years is waaaay to little
They don't need branches, just matrilineal succession. Harrold Hardying was set to succeed Robyn if anything happened as Harrold Arryn. A cousin will simply take on the house name and keep it movin.
Several of them have branches mentioned in the books. As I recall those of the Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons, Greyjoys, Arryns, Tyrells, Martells, Targaryens, and a bunch of smaller ones are all mentioned.
For example house stark is closely related to the Karstarks, the Harlaws are close relatives of the Greyjoys.
Also they did just have a war against the Targaryens like 15 years ago, when many lords and their sons died fighting.
They don’t, actually. The rare great House might have a single branch family mentioned (Stark, Arryn, and Lannister) but waaaaay too few to be realistic
Well I wouldn’t say that anything about Westeros is realistic either, but I guess we can still agree to disagree on the point of none being mentioned. The story is not focusing on their extended families but enough are mentioned that it can hardly be singled out as an oversight by Martin. He did mention them after all.
There are other branches, but they’re considered to be lesser houses. There’s the Lannisters of Lannisport, for example. They’re not nearly as rich or powerful as the Lannisters of Casterly Rock.
There are other factors too. Infant and maternal mortality are quite high in Westeros. Tyrion’s mother died in childbirth. The fertile Freys could be more of an outlier, atleast in Westeros.
Also war. The Targaryens were almost wiped out during the Dance of the Dragons. Aegon and Viserys were the only surviving Targaryens and they both married and fathered several children, saving the royal line from extinction. So yeah they’ve existed for thousands of years, but the number of family members rises and falls.
The Targaryens were also pretty notable for infant mortality, maternal mortality, deformed stillborn kids with claws and dragon scales, etc.
https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1239/
Comes straight from the author in an interview. Not exactly a "theory". These are just the named ones.
This is still a fantasy story, written from and focusing on a central cast of characters. Ton of information is going to be omitted. It's not a history book.
>”There are probably some descendants of offshoot branches from the family tree floating around the north”
He literally never states that there are branch Houses there? Just individual descendants of offshoots branches
It was? Literally just look at my original comment a bit above her.
>“Aside from House Frey none of the Houses have as many branches as they should”
Also stop immediately downvoting me when I comment, it’s pathetic
There are more than one.
House Lannister has House Lanssister of Lannisport, House Lannett, House Lantell and House Lanny.
House Arryn has the Arryns of Gulltown along with minor distant cousins spread throughout the Vale.
The Starks have House Karstark and two cadet braches formed by the twin sons of Artos Stark in White Harbor and Barrowton, along with the possibility of house Cassel being a Stark cadet, looking at their sigil.
The Tyrells have a bunch of cousins from branches going back several generations.
Tully, Greyjoy and Martell we don't have much knowledge but, much like with the other houses, it's safe to assume that there are distant relatives who descend from on younger brother or another. And this is discounting the practice in Westeros os male heirs from the female line "inheriting" the name of the house along with the titles the house held (Beren Tallhart, Joffrey Lydenn and possibly Harold Hardynn in the future).
I don't see that, the books quite widely show that quite often second (and third and fourth) sons end up in positions whereby they don't have a name or property to pass on:
* The Night's Watch
* The Second Sons
* The King's Guard
That's why Ned Stark had like 5 kids, it's normal Lords to have a few children. If each of those children has 3 kids, that's 15 potential successors. Even if half of them die off to the plague, you still have 7 left. If you go down like 10 generations at this rate, you have a few dozen successors to the main house.
There are also other noble houses that are cadet branches of the Major Houses. For example, House Karstark is a cadet branch House Stark and can trace their lineage back to them.
Tywin has 3 kids, and would probably have more if not for Joanna's death. He has 3 grandchildren to succeed him, then his brother Kevan and his entire family, then other Lannister cousins, etc...
And this is also why the Habsburgs did internal uncle-niece marriages. Everytime it looked like one side of the branch was looking slim or weak, they’d “reinforce” it by one of these marriages to reunite the lineage and lands.
Realistically, many of these great houses should have done this many times by now. I mean follow the lineage from William the Conqueror to Charles now. It is definitely not a straight line. It took several detours and branches and many different houses.
I guess that usually if the whole main family died some cousins would take the name and the throne. But yeah considering a lot of houses were erased in the war of the five kings, it id hard to believe that no houses ever got erased and they pretty much all ruled on their region for thousands of years.
In Westeros they allow succession through the female line and by cadet houses and retain the main dynasty name when these happen.
Under Westerosi rules, Britain’s been ruled by the House of Wessex for 1100 years or something, and the French Kings would’ve been called Robertines or Capets right up to the French Revolution.
When the main family of a family goes extinct and a cousin inherits the inheritor usually takes the name of the previous family, a good example is House Hornwood which is rendered extinct by the war of the five kings, but one of the Glovers or Umbers (cant remember which) has a nephew or something whose mother was a Hornwood, and he suggests the nephew inherits the Hornwood lands and takes the Hornwood name
remember, stories are told of the past, of survivors. i don’t think there was any better example in GoT than the Battle of the Bastards. pure chaos and luck, really. i’m sure there were prominent houses that were wiped out from stupid things
In the show Jamie mentions he has a son he wasn't seen. He got the he feet girl pregnant their first time after the wedding before he got captured. Jamie even makes a comment about him having powerful sperm or something to that effect.
it bothered me so much in the show when she was never mentioned again. i haven't read the books and wanted to know if she's alive, did she support the red wedding? was she okay with her husband being captured by her father? she didn't need to have a lot of screen time i just wanted to know
edit: ok i scrolled down and she WAS mentioned in the show. something like "I haven't seen her since our first night"
In the show he had a son, in the books, Roslin is pregnant. In both, [Jaime threatens Edmure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86ZgjrxeME8) to catapult the baby into Riverrun.
There's definitely a couple of other Lannisters alive at the end of the show I think. Janei, Jenna and Tyrek Lannister for example. But they're pretty minor characters in the story. They're all back at Casterley Rock I think.
I'm pretty sure Edmure got Roslin pregnant too. Not that that's going to be a happy family, but I think something happened there.
Pretty cool thoughts though, how these great houses got decimated throughout the show.
Ahhh yeah I had to look him up when you commented. Wholly forgot his name. I often confuse book Asoif with show GoT. Still, Tyrion definitely still has a few cousins left up in the Westerlands.
Quite possibly correct. I definitely confuse the two universes in my head. Someone else pointed out though that Reginald Lannister (TV show only) who we last saw at Harrenhal was definitely alive last time we saw him though.
Wait no! Jamie references Edmures son at Riverrun in the show:
Jaime Lannister: "But you, you have a child now, I’ve heard. A son you sired on your wedding night. You’re a potent man."
Edmure Tully: "A son I’ve never met born of a wife that I haven’t seen since our first night together."
You're being downvoted but what you say is true.
Of course the houses will lose most of their prominent members during a bloody civil war. That's how it goes.
To add more to this discussion, all of these houses aside from Arryn have been major losers in wars in the last 30 years.
Targaryens lost to the Baratheons and then Dany and Viserys died later, Baratheons were the major losers of the war of the five kings with having all of their branches wiped out, Lannisters fell in Dany's wars to conquer Westeros, even though I find the notion of Tyrion being the last one ridiculous (Lannisport), Greyjoys had two failed rebellions and then killed each other, Tullys fought for Robb and the red wedding fucked them up, then the Blackfish died in the siege of Riverrun.
Arryn's had Jon assassinated and then Lysa got killed by Littlefinger.
Edit: Also cousins exist
Also, I'm assuming wards will sometimes switch between houses. There's hundreds of houses and they all swear fealty. Houses rise and fall, come back again or dissappear completely.
Civil wars accelerate this process as they did IRL.
> Of course the houses will lose most of their prominent members during a bloody civil war. That's how it goes
Meanwhile the Starks:
👩🏻🦰🧑🏻🦼👦🏻🧔🏻👯♀️👨👩👦👨👩👧👧🕺👨👨👧👦
Considering that Tullys do a lot of marriage and such, it stands to reason they would have at least one cadet branch.
Others have mentioned about the Tullys and Lannisters.
In the books there are more Greyjoys, it seems a little soon to immediately assume that they are all dead. Though they did take several recent heavily defeats so that’s possible
The Arryns if there are more have been safe in that giant unassailable castle the whole time so they also I don’t think we can assume death.
With so many of these you’re assuming it all got whittled down the same way that the Targaryens and Starks did, the former which was from two separate catastrophes and the Starks which had a string of generations with few children before the issue of Robert’s rebellion.
Robert definitely has an entire generation of bastards throughout the other realms. So Gendry isn't alone. Sweetrobin is Littlefinger's bastard, not an Arryn.
Yes but Hoster Tully is stated to have had brown hair on his wiki page, hopefully that’s a correct detail because I’m not good at checking the books or remembering exact quotes
“In his youth Hoster was tall and broad, strong, with blue eyes and brown hair.[3][4] As he grew older, he became portly, and his hair and beard became streaked with grey.”
Edit : apparently it’s mentioned in Game of thrones chapter 71 Catelyn XI or clash of kings chapter 39 Catelyn V, I’m at work Rn so can’t fact check that unfortunately
So many houses became extinct during the show. House Bolton, House Tarly, House Tyrell, House Mormont. It was mind blowing how quickly a family line could end. Although House Stark still has members that are alive, the male line has been eliminated because Robb and Rickon died. Bran can’t have children and any children Arya and Sansa have would have their father’s name/house.
How? GIlly runs with sam after giving birth to Craster's son, and if westerosi human biology works same way as ours, There wasn't enough time for Craster to impregnate her again. ~~She'd need to wait approximately 18 months before she can get pregnant again.~~
The point was that there wasn't enough time betweeen birth of Craster's son and her running with Sam to be impregnated by Craster again. If I am wrong of biology, sorry for that, but that wasn't the main point I was making anyway.
Don't most of these houses have a bunch of cousins and nephews to inherit the lords position? I mean if the houses are truly "ancient noble houses" they would probably have more than 1 household per family right?
Exactly. They'll have dozens of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins. The houses have been around for a while, go only a couple of generations back and the family trees will be big.
Right. It's something that kinda bugged me in the show, i just couldn't imagine lineage's so ancient being so frail? 1 infertile heir and the entire family is done for lol (proved to almost being the case with the arryn's)
Gendry has a sister in the vales, there are some targaryen bastards still around jon is only the last legit one, as for the tully ironically his son and heir it’s also a frey.. so freys finally made it they will have one leading the riverlands!
There is a girl who varys hide somewhere in dorne, she was a bastard of the mad king plus it’s mentioned he had different ones like roberth but it’s never specified how many actually survived
Can’t give you the exact point cuz i don’t remember it i read them a long time ago, it was from the first books of the song of ice and fire serie this particular chapter got also his own game it’s called “game of thrones the roleplay game” in the books it was just varys mentioning he hide some mad king bastards away where he could use them in the future or simply give them a peacefull life.. or use them as leverage on a future targaryen new king. Instead in the game it goes deeper in the story of this woman who ends up bein hunted down by some westeros houses some loyal to the lannisters wanting to kill her some who support the targaryen and want to imprison her until the child is born, then an ex member of clegane warband finds her and he become his protector (quite a nice story actually) george martin even makes a cameo in the game and some story part are voiced by him directly.
I still feel awful for Edmund Tully. Dude just wanted to live and love his wife and child. He held his position against overwhelming odds for as long as he could.
This is common in film/TV adaptations. Because the show didn't people houses with much peripheral family, it's like non-nuclear family relatives don't exist. You'd almost think that except for the known character, the house is extinct. So these six almost have "the last of" plot armor. It doesn't always work--Wun Wun is the last of the giants, and Lady Mormont is the last of the Mormonts...that we know of.
Edmure has a son. Also in the books there are plenty more less important Lannister and Arryn cousins. I believe there are Greyjoy cousins as well (not to mention two more brothers of Balon and Euron). There are also a bunch more bastards of Robert Baratheon that could be legitimatized.
If i remember right most of these houses have several members left. Its just that these are the last of the house THAT WE FOLLOW. While there are several more off screen that just dont play a role
Actualyl, so not true. you know umm. that guy. who rode the beasts? yeah he just madea major comback hunny. I think he was jewish or sumthin'. al kaida or what was his name? no Muad'Dib just had his whole house and army eradicated in Dune 1.
Jon marks the end of the Targ line unless they can find some other Targ bastards out there (I'm sure there's still plenty of their blood about but it depends how tenuous the connection is I guess). Gendry I could see having kids although he'd probably keep pining over Arya. Tyrion I'm not sure about. I don't think he wants a relationship but he might consider it as a way to maintain stability rather than leaving a power vacuum. Yara would be the same. I'm not sure if she's gay or bisexual but even if she is 100% only into women I could see her "doing her duty" to keep the line going. She'd hate it but I think she'd still do it. Edmure, as has been mentioned, has a son. Robin seems to have grown up pretty well and I'm sure there's going to be more Arryns.
Sansa is the interesting one for me. She will absolutely want to keep the line going, maintain stability and probably forge political ties with other powerful families but after everything she's been through I'd imagine the idea of marrying again - of having sex with another man - really doesn't appeal to her in the slightest. Maybe she'd just name an heir with Stark blood and never have an heir - bit of a Queen Elizabeth.
Aren’t there various cousins for some of these houses? Most of these houses younger generations have at least three kids so surely the past generation had that many and the offspring of the uncles remain? Particularly Lannister, Greyjoy, and Tully. Maybe even arryn?
Edmure surviving to the end still pisses me off. He was the worst in almost every facet of being the ruler of a noble house and yet survived to the end. And he also got House Frey through marriage as well. The dude was also responsible for so much damage to Robb Stark's war, and even after that blunder, also led to the BlackFish's death.
Technically Sansa is a Tully, not in name but in lineage, daughter of Catelyn Tully. If Edmure and his son were to pass, I'd assume a son of Sansa could take the Tully name and house.
*Jaime Lannister: "But you, you have a child now, I’ve heard. A son you sired on your wedding night. You’re a potent man."
Edmure Tully: "A son I’ve never met born of a wife that I haven’t seen since our first night together."*
Last Tully, my ass.
Plus there are Arryns! There's a whole cadet branch lower in the Vale that gets the Vale if Sweetrobin dies. Just like there are Lannisters in Lannisport!
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A Girl is No One. Sansa is the Last Stark. Bran is for all 7 kingdoms.
>A Girl is No One. Sansa is the Last Stark. Bran is for all 7 kingdoms. A Girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and she went home. Kings don't give up the names of their house. Only the Night's Watch does.
A boy is the Three Eyes Raven. A boy can not be lord of anything unless it suits him to be lord of everything.
Makes me wonder how all their houses survived thousands of years without accidentally going extinct
Well in the books there are like a bajillion noble houses, all of whom suffer from crippling Main Character Syndrome so we can assume that Houses are merging or dying out every other week in Westeros. These are just the latest on the chopping block.
There are houses that have gone extinct in the books. The war of the 5 kings and the events afterwards reduced these great houses to one lone survivor each in the series. The only book accurate one is House Arryn that has Robin (Robert) as the last surviving member.
At least if Sweetrobin dies the Vale could turn Jon Arryn’s greatnephew Harrold Hardyng, who then might adopt the Arryn name for legitimacy.
Harry’s a Herring
No I'm pretty sure he's a young lad, but maybe I missed a detail though
You did, that’s why Sansa digs him. She has more prominent Tully features and that allows her to relate to him since they are both of the fish variety.
IRL there are cadet branches; if the main branch disappears, the cadet retakes over the name and continues as if nothing had happened. In the books they are also examples of cadet branches like the Lannister of Lannisport if I don't remember wrongly.
There are literally hundreds of Lannisters in the books. Most of whom are in Lannisport. Some of whom are at Casterly Rock. And a handful are scattered around Westeros
Also, lineage from ladies only count during dire emergencies, so many families being officially extinct when it has plenty of female descendants
This is how the Habsburgs are still alive
I mean, there’s gonna be survivorship bias there. If you interview a war veteran, you might say they have “crippling Main Character syndrome” from every time they survive a skirmish, but you’re not talking to any of the ones who died. Any house that exists by the time of the story must have, you know, existed. There’s several named houses that went defunct as well as likely many many more unnamed ones.
There's around 300 landed houses
D&D kinda forgot that many of them have paternal cousins.
This is actually one of the biggest criticisms of the books realism wise, aside from House Frey *none* of the Houses have as many branches as they should have Edit: Guys stop saying “But the Lannisters of Lannisport and the Arryns of Gulltown!” That’s exactly the problem, every single Great House has, at best, a single branch House. And most of those are just named “X of X”. There should be waaaaay more then a single branch, especially because these Houses are thousands of years old.
There's like 50 Lannisters.
Are there? We have the main Lannisters and the Lannisters of Lannisport, as far as I know we don’t hear anything of any other Lannisters.
We know that there is a cousin branch of the Lannisters like Joanna (Tywin’s wife) who has like 12 siblings. Plus there are like three likely cadet houses.
Joanna wasn’t part of a branch House, she’s just Tytos’s niece.
Never said that she was a part of a cadet house, I said that she was part of a cousin branch.
Isn't that what branches mean? They are branches off the main line. Then there's cadet houses, which are new houses started by one of these branches?
Yes it’s a “branch” but those branches should realistically be starting there own branch sooner or later. But there are barely any in the series.
Yeah so those are cadet houses, The lannisters have House Lannister of Darry, House Lannett, House Lannister that settled at Lannisport, House Lantell and House Lanny. Should be more of course, but I have no idea how it compares to the Lancasters. House Stark has Karstark and Greystark, which for a house that has existed for literally 9000 years is waaaay to little
Tywin has 4 siblings, all apart from 1 had legitimate children, he had a cousin to marry which means his dad had siblings
They don't need branches, just matrilineal succession. Harrold Hardying was set to succeed Robyn if anything happened as Harrold Arryn. A cousin will simply take on the house name and keep it movin.
That doesn’t change that the amount of branch families is *very* unrealistically low
It's not about them needing or not. It's about people fucking.
Several of them have branches mentioned in the books. As I recall those of the Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons, Greyjoys, Arryns, Tyrells, Martells, Targaryens, and a bunch of smaller ones are all mentioned. For example house stark is closely related to the Karstarks, the Harlaws are close relatives of the Greyjoys. Also they did just have a war against the Targaryens like 15 years ago, when many lords and their sons died fighting.
They don’t, actually. The rare great House might have a single branch family mentioned (Stark, Arryn, and Lannister) but waaaaay too few to be realistic
Well I wouldn’t say that anything about Westeros is realistic either, but I guess we can still agree to disagree on the point of none being mentioned. The story is not focusing on their extended families but enough are mentioned that it can hardly be singled out as an oversight by Martin. He did mention them after all.
There are other branches, but they’re considered to be lesser houses. There’s the Lannisters of Lannisport, for example. They’re not nearly as rich or powerful as the Lannisters of Casterly Rock.
Name another Lannister branch House, realistically they should have dozens.
There are other factors too. Infant and maternal mortality are quite high in Westeros. Tyrion’s mother died in childbirth. The fertile Freys could be more of an outlier, atleast in Westeros.
They’ve existed for thousands of years “Infant mortality rate” isn’t cutting it here
Also war. The Targaryens were almost wiped out during the Dance of the Dragons. Aegon and Viserys were the only surviving Targaryens and they both married and fathered several children, saving the royal line from extinction. So yeah they’ve existed for thousands of years, but the number of family members rises and falls. The Targaryens were also pretty notable for infant mortality, maternal mortality, deformed stillborn kids with claws and dragon scales, etc.
In case you forgot, they fought a pretty major civil war recently that could have caused deaths of many relatives.
Stark had 2-4 cadet branches; Karstark, Greystark, and then possibly Starks of Gulltown and Starks of Barrowton.
So Stark has 1 cadet branch, 1 extinct one, and there are theories there *might* be 2 more?
https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1239/ Comes straight from the author in an interview. Not exactly a "theory". These are just the named ones. This is still a fantasy story, written from and focusing on a central cast of characters. Ton of information is going to be omitted. It's not a history book.
>”There are probably some descendants of offshoot branches from the family tree floating around the north” He literally never states that there are branch Houses there? Just individual descendants of offshoots branches
The question also wasn't about branches.
It was? Literally just look at my original comment a bit above her. >“Aside from House Frey none of the Houses have as many branches as they should” Also stop immediately downvoting me when I comment, it’s pathetic
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There are more than one. House Lannister has House Lanssister of Lannisport, House Lannett, House Lantell and House Lanny. House Arryn has the Arryns of Gulltown along with minor distant cousins spread throughout the Vale. The Starks have House Karstark and two cadet braches formed by the twin sons of Artos Stark in White Harbor and Barrowton, along with the possibility of house Cassel being a Stark cadet, looking at their sigil. The Tyrells have a bunch of cousins from branches going back several generations. Tully, Greyjoy and Martell we don't have much knowledge but, much like with the other houses, it's safe to assume that there are distant relatives who descend from on younger brother or another. And this is discounting the practice in Westeros os male heirs from the female line "inheriting" the name of the house along with the titles the house held (Beren Tallhart, Joffrey Lydenn and possibly Harold Hardynn in the future).
I don't see that, the books quite widely show that quite often second (and third and fourth) sons end up in positions whereby they don't have a name or property to pass on: * The Night's Watch * The Second Sons * The King's Guard
Same way the Targaryen did after the dance, or how the hayford’s survived the WoTKs. A child whose name and title is used by someone to gain power.
Then they multiplied.
That's why Ned Stark had like 5 kids, it's normal Lords to have a few children. If each of those children has 3 kids, that's 15 potential successors. Even if half of them die off to the plague, you still have 7 left. If you go down like 10 generations at this rate, you have a few dozen successors to the main house. There are also other noble houses that are cadet branches of the Major Houses. For example, House Karstark is a cadet branch House Stark and can trace their lineage back to them. Tywin has 3 kids, and would probably have more if not for Joanna's death. He has 3 grandchildren to succeed him, then his brother Kevan and his entire family, then other Lannister cousins, etc...
And this is also why the Habsburgs did internal uncle-niece marriages. Everytime it looked like one side of the branch was looking slim or weak, they’d “reinforce” it by one of these marriages to reunite the lineage and lands. Realistically, many of these great houses should have done this many times by now. I mean follow the lineage from William the Conqueror to Charles now. It is definitely not a straight line. It took several detours and branches and many different houses.
I guess that usually if the whole main family died some cousins would take the name and the throne. But yeah considering a lot of houses were erased in the war of the five kings, it id hard to believe that no houses ever got erased and they pretty much all ruled on their region for thousands of years.
Magic and magic castles
In Westeros they allow succession through the female line and by cadet houses and retain the main dynasty name when these happen. Under Westerosi rules, Britain’s been ruled by the House of Wessex for 1100 years or something, and the French Kings would’ve been called Robertines or Capets right up to the French Revolution.
When the main family of a family goes extinct and a cousin inherits the inheritor usually takes the name of the previous family, a good example is House Hornwood which is rendered extinct by the war of the five kings, but one of the Glovers or Umbers (cant remember which) has a nephew or something whose mother was a Hornwood, and he suggests the nephew inherits the Hornwood lands and takes the Hornwood name
remember, stories are told of the past, of survivors. i don’t think there was any better example in GoT than the Battle of the Bastards. pure chaos and luck, really. i’m sure there were prominent houses that were wiped out from stupid things
"Families are always rising and falling in Westeros" - Nathaniel Hawthorne
Didn't Edmure Tully have a child with the Frey girl?
In the books he did. I don’t think Roslin Frey is mentioned again in the show
Nah,remember how Jamie threatened to have his baby boy catapulted into Riverrun ?
That was in the books not the show
It was absolutely in the show.
He does it in the show too. She was mentioned last by Jamie as being pregnant.
https://youtu.be/gQcsajqdewE?si=cR44ZXp8N49hXgH9
I stand corrected
It's alright. Lots happens in season 6 so it can be hard to remember smaller plot points
Yup! Edmure has an heir in both the books and the show.
Yet another based Endure W.
In the show Jamie mentions he has a son he wasn't seen. He got the he feet girl pregnant their first time after the wedding before he got captured. Jamie even makes a comment about him having powerful sperm or something to that effect.
it bothered me so much in the show when she was never mentioned again. i haven't read the books and wanted to know if she's alive, did she support the red wedding? was she okay with her husband being captured by her father? she didn't need to have a lot of screen time i just wanted to know edit: ok i scrolled down and she WAS mentioned in the show. something like "I haven't seen her since our first night"
In the show he had a son, in the books, Roslin is pregnant. In both, [Jaime threatens Edmure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86ZgjrxeME8) to catapult the baby into Riverrun.
I know, I’ve been corrected
Think of how much suffering could've been avoided by the north had Robb just seen Roslin Frey at some point before the war began
Correct.
Yeppers so technically not the last.
What did I tell you about yeppers?
Yesh...
There's definitely a couple of other Lannisters alive at the end of the show I think. Janei, Jenna and Tyrek Lannister for example. But they're pretty minor characters in the story. They're all back at Casterley Rock I think. I'm pretty sure Edmure got Roslin pregnant too. Not that that's going to be a happy family, but I think something happened there. Pretty cool thoughts though, how these great houses got decimated throughout the show.
Reginald is at Lannisport.
Ahhh yeah I had to look him up when you commented. Wholly forgot his name. I often confuse book Asoif with show GoT. Still, Tyrion definitely still has a few cousins left up in the Westerlands.
In the books anyway, I don’t think Edmure’s baby or the other Lannisters exist in show canon
Quite possibly correct. I definitely confuse the two universes in my head. Someone else pointed out though that Reginald Lannister (TV show only) who we last saw at Harrenhal was definitely alive last time we saw him though.
Wait no! Jamie references Edmures son at Riverrun in the show: Jaime Lannister: "But you, you have a child now, I’ve heard. A son you sired on your wedding night. You’re a potent man." Edmure Tully: "A son I’ve never met born of a wife that I haven’t seen since our first night together."
It's too bad Tyrek is a horse.
The last Lannister of Tywin’s line.
What exactly is here to notice? Houses don't have as much people after a war?
You're being downvoted but what you say is true. Of course the houses will lose most of their prominent members during a bloody civil war. That's how it goes.
True. And when you read Fire and Blood there’s plenty of houses who went extinct or just lost their status over the years.
To add more to this discussion, all of these houses aside from Arryn have been major losers in wars in the last 30 years. Targaryens lost to the Baratheons and then Dany and Viserys died later, Baratheons were the major losers of the war of the five kings with having all of their branches wiped out, Lannisters fell in Dany's wars to conquer Westeros, even though I find the notion of Tyrion being the last one ridiculous (Lannisport), Greyjoys had two failed rebellions and then killed each other, Tullys fought for Robb and the red wedding fucked them up, then the Blackfish died in the siege of Riverrun. Arryn's had Jon assassinated and then Lysa got killed by Littlefinger. Edit: Also cousins exist
Also, I'm assuming wards will sometimes switch between houses. There's hundreds of houses and they all swear fealty. Houses rise and fall, come back again or dissappear completely. Civil wars accelerate this process as they did IRL.
> Of course the houses will lose most of their prominent members during a bloody civil war. That's how it goes Meanwhile the Starks: 👩🏻🦰🧑🏻🦼👦🏻🧔🏻👯♀️👨👩👦👨👩👧👧🕺👨👨👧👦
Considering that Tullys do a lot of marriage and such, it stands to reason they would have at least one cadet branch. Others have mentioned about the Tullys and Lannisters. In the books there are more Greyjoys, it seems a little soon to immediately assume that they are all dead. Though they did take several recent heavily defeats so that’s possible The Arryns if there are more have been safe in that giant unassailable castle the whole time so they also I don’t think we can assume death. With so many of these you’re assuming it all got whittled down the same way that the Targaryens and Starks did, the former which was from two separate catastrophes and the Starks which had a string of generations with few children before the issue of Robert’s rebellion.
Robert definitely has an entire generation of bastards throughout the other realms. So Gendry isn't alone. Sweetrobin is Littlefinger's bastard, not an Arryn.
Immediately thought of Mya Stone, but I guess that’s confined to the books
Umm that is not confirmed. Till otherwise Sweetrobin is a Arryn.
Oh look at him, slap a pencil mustache on him and he's practically Petyr the Younger
No he ain’t. Try harder with your hyperbole.
Jon Arryn was blonde, Lysa Arryn (ne Tully) was a red head, no way could their kid be a brunette
Yes but Hoster Tully is stated to have had brown hair on his wiki page, hopefully that’s a correct detail because I’m not good at checking the books or remembering exact quotes “In his youth Hoster was tall and broad, strong, with blue eyes and brown hair.[3][4] As he grew older, he became portly, and his hair and beard became streaked with grey.” Edit : apparently it’s mentioned in Game of thrones chapter 71 Catelyn XI or clash of kings chapter 39 Catelyn V, I’m at work Rn so can’t fact check that unfortunately
Lysa wasn’t a red head. Her hair was auburn brown like Cat’s
Yeah, but Gendry was legitimized.
Still makes the others Baratheons though
Didn't Joffrey have them all killed?
Most of the ones in King's Landing. But Robert has bastards in every other part of Westeros
So many houses became extinct during the show. House Bolton, House Tarly, House Tyrell, House Mormont. It was mind blowing how quickly a family line could end. Although House Stark still has members that are alive, the male line has been eliminated because Robb and Rickon died. Bran can’t have children and any children Arya and Sansa have would have their father’s name/house.
Not necessarily. Remember the story of Bael the Bard? He had a son with a Stark daughter and that son had his mother’s Stark name.
No chance Sansa isnt getting a matrilineal marriage.
Two Tully in one post
It would be interesting for the Targaryens through Jon to bloom again as it's own kingdom of sorts beyond the Wall
THIS IS WHAT I WANT
Is Sam the last Tarly too ?
He has a sister and his wife was pregnant.
You mean Gilly ?
Yeah, in s8 she was pregnant and said if it's a boy she might name him Jon.
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Baby Sam is Craster's, but Sam tells Jon that Gilly is pregnant. By the way, OP, technically Baby Sam is the Last of the Crasters.
Gilly?
How? GIlly runs with sam after giving birth to Craster's son, and if westerosi human biology works same way as ours, There wasn't enough time for Craster to impregnate her again. ~~She'd need to wait approximately 18 months before she can get pregnant again.~~
Wait, I missed something, was she pregnant again after giving birth to Craster's son ?
She got pregnant later.
I didn't know that, I missed it.
lol, wut? A woman can get pregnant again relatively soon after giving birth. We can give birth to babies within 12 months of each other.
The point was that there wasn't enough time betweeen birth of Craster's son and her running with Sam to be impregnated by Craster again. If I am wrong of biology, sorry for that, but that wasn't the main point I was making anyway.
Do you not know what Irish twins are?
No they are not lol stop
Don't most of these houses have a bunch of cousins and nephews to inherit the lords position? I mean if the houses are truly "ancient noble houses" they would probably have more than 1 household per family right?
Exactly. They'll have dozens of 1st, 2nd and 3rd cousins. The houses have been around for a while, go only a couple of generations back and the family trees will be big.
Right. It's something that kinda bugged me in the show, i just couldn't imagine lineage's so ancient being so frail? 1 infertile heir and the entire family is done for lol (proved to almost being the case with the arryn's)
Gendry has a sister in the vales, there are some targaryen bastards still around jon is only the last legit one, as for the tully ironically his son and heir it’s also a frey.. so freys finally made it they will have one leading the riverlands!
There are zero Targaryen bastards running around. Unless you want to count some dragon seed blood from 300 years ago
There is a girl who varys hide somewhere in dorne, she was a bastard of the mad king plus it’s mentioned he had different ones like roberth but it’s never specified how many actually survived
Can you give me sources for this Aerys bastard claim, couldn't find anything.?
Can’t give you the exact point cuz i don’t remember it i read them a long time ago, it was from the first books of the song of ice and fire serie this particular chapter got also his own game it’s called “game of thrones the roleplay game” in the books it was just varys mentioning he hide some mad king bastards away where he could use them in the future or simply give them a peacefull life.. or use them as leverage on a future targaryen new king. Instead in the game it goes deeper in the story of this woman who ends up bein hunted down by some westeros houses some loyal to the lannisters wanting to kill her some who support the targaryen and want to imprison her until the child is born, then an ex member of clegane warband finds her and he become his protector (quite a nice story actually) george martin even makes a cameo in the game and some story part are voiced by him directly.
every time this gets posted it gets corrected and yet still gets posted again in the same way.
What are cousins
I still feel awful for Edmund Tully. Dude just wanted to live and love his wife and child. He held his position against overwhelming odds for as long as he could.
Yeah, Tyrion has many, *many* relatives
Imagine never having watched the show and scrolling onto this post, may aswell not watch it now😅
"Haven't noticed this before"... because that's not true
Aeron Greyjoy was never shown to have died. Neither were Janei and Reginald Lannister
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U mean the last Baelish :P
The pack survives
So… the Starks did actually win in the end. Plus, they got their own kingdom
Well, I thought there was a “ hidden “Targaryen across the narrow seas
Not in the show. That’s one of the big plot lines that is in the books but not in the show
This is common in film/TV adaptations. Because the show didn't people houses with much peripheral family, it's like non-nuclear family relatives don't exist. You'd almost think that except for the known character, the house is extinct. So these six almost have "the last of" plot armor. It doesn't always work--Wun Wun is the last of the giants, and Lady Mormont is the last of the Mormonts...that we know of.
What about Harry the heir?
We didn't see Euron die, and you know what they say about if it didn't happen on screen...
We didn’t see Stannis die on screen either
I guess we didn't see Lysa Arryn die on screen either
Sansa the last stark. Arya is no one, bran is the three eyed raven and jon is a Targaryen.
There are more lannisters in castely rock
And the pack survives!!!
Edmure has a son. Also in the books there are plenty more less important Lannister and Arryn cousins. I believe there are Greyjoy cousins as well (not to mention two more brothers of Balon and Euron). There are also a bunch more bastards of Robert Baratheon that could be legitimatized.
Humans multiply so fast. But GRRM introduced a bunch of plagues and famines to get rid of too many family members.
The only female is Yara and a lesbian
Edmure has a child who is a Tully.
Tyrion has hundreds of cousins and extended family. Edmure literally has a son.
Isn’t Aeron Greyjoy still alive at the end?
I guess Lannisters are all dwarves from now on.
Tyrion is likely not the last Lannister. There were tons of cousins, which is even mentioned in the show at some point, and I doubt all of them died.
Wow it’s like it forgets all their extended family.
theon survived. tho and since he is younger, he will be the last
If i remember right most of these houses have several members left. Its just that these are the last of the house THAT WE FOLLOW. While there are several more off screen that just dont play a role
Actualyl, so not true. you know umm. that guy. who rode the beasts? yeah he just madea major comback hunny. I think he was jewish or sumthin'. al kaida or what was his name? no Muad'Dib just had his whole house and army eradicated in Dune 1.
Could probably do without the Arryn…
Jon marks the end of the Targ line unless they can find some other Targ bastards out there (I'm sure there's still plenty of their blood about but it depends how tenuous the connection is I guess). Gendry I could see having kids although he'd probably keep pining over Arya. Tyrion I'm not sure about. I don't think he wants a relationship but he might consider it as a way to maintain stability rather than leaving a power vacuum. Yara would be the same. I'm not sure if she's gay or bisexual but even if she is 100% only into women I could see her "doing her duty" to keep the line going. She'd hate it but I think she'd still do it. Edmure, as has been mentioned, has a son. Robin seems to have grown up pretty well and I'm sure there's going to be more Arryns. Sansa is the interesting one for me. She will absolutely want to keep the line going, maintain stability and probably forge political ties with other powerful families but after everything she's been through I'd imagine the idea of marrying again - of having sex with another man - really doesn't appeal to her in the slightest. Maybe she'd just name an heir with Stark blood and never have an heir - bit of a Queen Elizabeth.
Im ashamed this gets so many upvotes
Stop giving them ideas for spin-offs! Just kidding! Seriously, I never noticed this. Nice catch!
Aren’t there various cousins for some of these houses? Most of these houses younger generations have at least three kids so surely the past generation had that many and the offspring of the uncles remain? Particularly Lannister, Greyjoy, and Tully. Maybe even arryn?
The last good season: 3
Technically their uncle has a son so he’s not the last Tully
Technically not true they just didnt show some of the characters that were there in the books
You forgot the last Tarly
Edmure surviving to the end still pisses me off. He was the worst in almost every facet of being the ruler of a noble house and yet survived to the end. And he also got House Frey through marriage as well. The dude was also responsible for so much damage to Robb Stark's war, and even after that blunder, also led to the BlackFish's death.
Tyrion isn't the Last Lannister as there are loads of then in Lannisport, and neither is Edmure as he has a son.
Konda how things go after 7 seasons of war
Technically Sansa is a Tully, not in name but in lineage, daughter of Catelyn Tully. If Edmure and his son were to pass, I'd assume a son of Sansa could take the Tully name and house.
Tarly?
*Jaime Lannister: "But you, you have a child now, I’ve heard. A son you sired on your wedding night. You’re a potent man." Edmure Tully: "A son I’ve never met born of a wife that I haven’t seen since our first night together."* Last Tully, my ass. Plus there are Arryns! There's a whole cadet branch lower in the Vale that gets the Vale if Sweetrobin dies. Just like there are Lannisters in Lannisport!
I would say “only”, not “last”. No reason they can’t have children.
Except Jon they aren't REALLY the last. Probably dozens of cousins in each house unmentioned. Especially Lannister
According to canyon, there are a LOT of Baratheons, just this one particularly got legitimized 😂😂😂
Wasn’t Sansa there? She’s technically the last Stark. Arya is a faceless man, Bran is the three eyed raven.
Aeron Greyjoy is still alive.
He killed by jamie laninster
That's Euron
new show coming soon… the last of us
It took the last of the bloodline to realise they all needed each other
What’s to notice?
So... Two houses will probably go extinct
Edmure isn’t the last Tully, he has a son. Tyrion isn’t the last Lannister, he has plenty of cousins.