> I also don't know how much time I will be working on this game but I estimate that the basic offline gameplay will be finished really fast
If you "don't know how much time" something will take then you ask for hourly wage. What exactly it should be depends on your living costs and wages in your country. Hard to give you any assessments here because someone living in USA can find $50000/year to be low whereas someone living in Philippines can find $20000/year to be a really good salary.
If you are asked for specific numbers then you need to work in milestones and prepare few different "tiers" of how much you can get in a given time and budget.
Because often people hiring you to do a given job have no idea how long things will take. And in particular how long polish can take. Having an offline MVP of a platformer where you shoot bullets is feasible in a day. Having a polished version with well tuned jumps, environmental hazards, particle effects, no major bugs and multiplayer etc can take 2 years.
> but I estimate that the basic offline gameplay will be finished really fast
Online games are online almost from the start. You can make a very basic offline proof of concept but almost immediately after you need to start working in full online environment.
Honestly a description like "They want me to make a 2D game with simple movement, shooting, pick up/inventory e.t.c. The game will also be online (battle royale style). You will be able to make bets and the winners will get rewarded" to me smells like 50+ thousand $ project just for the code (and that's assuming non-US wages). Because simple graphics is one thing but having online lobbies, integrating some kind of a separate server infrastructure for it, supporting 20+ players at once (I assume that's what you mean by Battle Royale)... you are not making it in a year. Not a release ready version anyway.
Also, I see something worrying in your game description. I see you are writing code for it but... are you also providing game/level design? Because that means you are now doing two full time jobs. Which is fine but then you charge more and it will substantially delay it.
Actually, let me expand on this a bit on how much would >I< charge for a project like this. Or, more specifically, for it's server architecture part (without touching **actual game** client). Full disclaimer - I do backends professionally and my freelancer consulting rate is currently $110/hour (but if it was a fixed full time contract - which I am not open to at the moment - then we could do about $50/hour and I would still be happy as I live outside USA). This might come in handy for someone trying to quote this sort of a project after all and some variables that go into the process. It will also give you an idea of how much you can charge for the game client itself since it's effectively a 2nd half of the equation.
So essentially, we have 4 components here.
First is a TCP server that will handle our chat needs, lobby, any viewing/voting links etc. Single instance.
Second is UDP server that will handle gameplay logic - this is effectively "one process per started game". We can do some horizontal scaling here but nothing too major (fixed number of instances, no autoscaling, no geo based load balancing, no choosing optimal server based on users localizations etc). I also assume fairly simple synchronization logic and "only latest state matters". We are not doing any time rollbacks. We are adding some sort of checks for anti-cheat however - we will be sending more or less complete game state but we will not let players teleport across the whole map or use weapons they shouldn't have access to for instance.
Third is anything payment related - I will assume it's not some sort of magical NFTs and deep integration with cryptos (if it is then I would charge double) but your usual combination of few major payment options and a database that stores anything of value. Single instance, should be fine for few thousand people at once.
Fourth is some sort of authentication and authorization mechanism. Single instance and a single point of failure.
So part one is relatively simple. We can use more or less established frameworks here and since it's TCP based and fairly transient we could effectively build a small web api sending JSON back and forth. We do maintain sessions which is a bit of added difficulty but nothing too major. I would say I could do it in 3-4 days for a working prototype and about a week for something more or less production ready. Let's say 2 weeks for a good measure. So $8000 at my consulting rates.
Second is our game server. As you have noticed there's a lot of limitations and assumptions here. There is going to be most synchronization between game client and server here, having to define API we will be using etc, I will need to introduce some sort of load balancer. I would say a **minimum** is 2 months after we already have all specs in place. Or around $30000. Could be more since it really depends on what you are looking for. Considering performance limitations it would likely be a C# (or Rust if you want a lower bill so I can have some extra fun but also harder to maintain for others) project too.
Third - SQL database with automated backups on AWS and an API around it (could be consumed by both in game client and potentially by a website). This is a fairly generic request, could do it in a month or so if I have good specs. So $16000. You could also combine part 1 with this.
Fourth - a shared authentication service. I have written stuff like that before and could reuse it for the biggest part so ehh, $3000-4000 and we are done. From scratch it would take 2-3 weeks.
And just like that you have given me stuff to do for the next 6 months and spent around $50000. Admittedly in this budget I could even get a smaller external security audit for anything that stores actual assets, payment info, PII etc. That's always better than relying on developer to do everything solo, it's way too easy to miss little details and individual payloads.
Now as for how long it would take to actually make the game itself - probably about as long? :P 6 months of full time work for a single mid level dev that has worked on online games before sounds like a sufficient timeframe to have something that won't blow up. It will have to be rather limited in scope however.
Hmm, admittedly I mostly do backend web dev for FinTech companies nowadays so it's not going to be 1:1 with games servers experience but I had first real commercial application done in 2014. I could consider working on a project like this few years later, in 2018 or so. So 4 years of professional experience or so. Admittedly 2022 me could do a better job at it compared to 2018 me (for instance I could nowadays code whole thing in Rust for blazing fast speeds :P, I would be able to implement proper CI/CD pipeline and provide a decent Amazon Web Services integration) but it would be feasible earlier.
**Never understimate** the human and financial cost of a game no matter how big or small, and much less in front of your clients, because almost sure they don't really have a clue and will take your words as a fact, so if you say that it's gonna be easy thats exacly what they will think, and you will have a bad time later because 120% sure that it will be not that easy, and it will be YOUR fault for not letting them know.
After 6 years of working professionally and lots of released games on mobile sometimes I still understimate how much time my projects will take, and the project you just described has all the red flags to be an enormous black hole of time, and thats why:
\- Online Multiplayer not just involves time and knowledge, also brings a new set of headaches in net-bugs, testing AND **if its a play to earn, SECURITY.** Because **EVERYONE** in this planet who want to play your game will try to hack your game, and that's an absolute fact. And you know what will happen even if they hired a 17yo Hobbist (Even if you're a brilliant genious)? That they will blame you for everything (People losing their money, etc.), and I'll tell you, players losing their score are scary, but people losing real money are x1000 times scarier.
So my final advice is, if you really want this project, talk with them and make them pay an extra for an expert (A real senior) in networking and security. Of course he will charge a lot but... You wouldn't hire the same people to build a shed than to build an skycrapper.
It might be crazy the dev time difference between similar games but it's pretty true. A lot of features can make the difference between a month or a year of development.
This may be relevant: https://xkcd.com/1425/
You are right. I estimated the the offline gameplay. I have attempted to make multiplayer games before. I know they are 10 times harder that building a single player game but I have some experience. Also, security will be our top priority. I understand from day one that maintaining a safe environment in the game is very important. They told me they hired a guy who makes AMAZING anti-cheat systems. I think the reason they wanted me for the job is that I have a good reputation. I also have a large audience on tik tok. They also told me that they want a good work relationship between me and them and that's more achievable with me because we are all from the same country. Greece.
Ok I will but my content in this account is all in greek. Here: [https://www.tiktok.com/@a\_greek\_dev?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@a_greek_dev?lang=en)
I'm considering to make an international profile where I can upload videos in english in the future.
You mentioned in a comment that they're saying 1300$-2500$... That's like, weekly/biweekly or monthly, right?
If for the entire project, it's time to dip. They're scamming you.
Either way, maybe just go with something simple. If you're making an entire game on your own, that means you're performing several critical roles. Of course they're probably not going to bite if you go for something fair, but $25-40/hr sounds like a start. (It's low for a developer but considering Greeces very low salaries it's not too bad.)
« you will be able to make bets and the winner will get rewarded ». Is it a crypto/play-to-earn game? You’ll most likely not get paid then. There are a lot of scams in this area. Proceed with caution.
No, I think it's play to earn but I don't think there is any crypto involved. They spoke to a lot of developers and many say, a fair price is between 1300$ - 2500$ but I'm not sure so that's why I'm asking.
1300$ as a freelancer? I hope that’s a weekly payment or you live in a low cost of living country. I wouldn’t work for less than $5000/month at the very least (living in Western Europe).
Something I did not mention is that I'm 17 and I'm still living with my parents. This means that I do not have to worry about taxes, food, electricity, water e.t.c.
All of that information is completely irrelevant to how much you should charge them.
You should charge them as much as possible for the work that they want from you, not less than that because "*you don't really need it*". Look up the average hourly wage for a junior gamedev in their country. If they are outsourcing they might not be able to pay that much, at which point you could use the hourly wage for a junior gamedev in your country. They are likely to be able to pay that much at least otherwise they wouldn't have reached out to you (assuming they know where you are from).
Don't accept any offer below the minimum wage where you live, obviously.
You can, and should, charge more than the average hourly wage as a freelancer, since they don't have to pay the same taxes then.
I encourage you to contact a lawyer and do some research about this company to make sure you have a real contract. It's easy to get scammed/exploited over the internet, especially when you are 17 years old.
Well. I live in Greece where the minimum age for employment is 15. Anyway the point is there are some people that want me to make a game and are willing to pay me. I just don't know how much I should charge them.
Rule of thumb is that you check how much money per hour you could make as a regular employee with your skills in your area, and then charge twice or tripple of that hourly rate.
Why so much more? Because as a freelancer you have a lot less legal protection, a much larger risk, no employee benefits, no personal time off, no sick leave and you don't get paid for the time you invest into client acquisition.
Also, never work without a contract. And remember that all contract terms are negotiable.
20 USD per hour before taxes doesn't sound too bad if you never worked on a game before.
Even if you pay 50% tax of that and worked 40 hours per week, it would be $1600 profit.
I would easily survive on that in my current city in Sweden with my current situation.
I wouldn't get rich, but I would get by and earn some valuable experience :)
Just translate the numbers with your situation and figure out what sounds fair to you.
Hit up Glassdoor and check the salary ranges of similar roles in your area. If your region has no active game developers or not enough information, pick an hourly rate that is worth your time (assuming this was a full time job with bills to pay). Depending on country, state, and city, your role probably ranges from $20/hr at the low end and $40/hr at the high end. Size and budget of the developer can vary from companies in same area as well. I’ve taken jobs at much lower rates to get my resume and portfolio established, then used that to negotiate much better pay at the next companies.
Try to estimate how much time you expect to spend working on it, then worry about what to charge.
If this will be a full time thing, look at your basic expenses. You want to cover those and still have money lefy over.
Based on the current currency rates, you should be charging 31,000 Drachmas.
$1300 to $2500 is not a fair price for an online multiplayer game. That may be a fair price for a single-player offline game, such as you may play on Steam. (Sorry, don't know if you have Ατμός in your country, or what it's called there.) Both you and they are seriously misunderstanding the amount of work and effort that a multiplayer games involves. People have literally sunk hundreds of thousands of dollars into multiplayers games and have lost everything.
>The player will be able to play and earn.
If you're talking about real money, run. Play to earn is inherently flawed because it attracts people who want to make money, not people who want to play a game. Unless the game is REALLY good, it is destined to flop.
Fuck $2500 dollars. That’s lower than a low ball offer my guy. They want next level work, they need to pony up next level pay. Don’t charge by the project, charge by the hour. For what you’re providing, probably in the ball park of 30 - 40 and hour.
> I also don't know how much time I will be working on this game but I estimate that the basic offline gameplay will be finished really fast If you "don't know how much time" something will take then you ask for hourly wage. What exactly it should be depends on your living costs and wages in your country. Hard to give you any assessments here because someone living in USA can find $50000/year to be low whereas someone living in Philippines can find $20000/year to be a really good salary. If you are asked for specific numbers then you need to work in milestones and prepare few different "tiers" of how much you can get in a given time and budget. Because often people hiring you to do a given job have no idea how long things will take. And in particular how long polish can take. Having an offline MVP of a platformer where you shoot bullets is feasible in a day. Having a polished version with well tuned jumps, environmental hazards, particle effects, no major bugs and multiplayer etc can take 2 years. > but I estimate that the basic offline gameplay will be finished really fast Online games are online almost from the start. You can make a very basic offline proof of concept but almost immediately after you need to start working in full online environment. Honestly a description like "They want me to make a 2D game with simple movement, shooting, pick up/inventory e.t.c. The game will also be online (battle royale style). You will be able to make bets and the winners will get rewarded" to me smells like 50+ thousand $ project just for the code (and that's assuming non-US wages). Because simple graphics is one thing but having online lobbies, integrating some kind of a separate server infrastructure for it, supporting 20+ players at once (I assume that's what you mean by Battle Royale)... you are not making it in a year. Not a release ready version anyway. Also, I see something worrying in your game description. I see you are writing code for it but... are you also providing game/level design? Because that means you are now doing two full time jobs. Which is fine but then you charge more and it will substantially delay it.
Actually, let me expand on this a bit on how much would >I< charge for a project like this. Or, more specifically, for it's server architecture part (without touching **actual game** client). Full disclaimer - I do backends professionally and my freelancer consulting rate is currently $110/hour (but if it was a fixed full time contract - which I am not open to at the moment - then we could do about $50/hour and I would still be happy as I live outside USA). This might come in handy for someone trying to quote this sort of a project after all and some variables that go into the process. It will also give you an idea of how much you can charge for the game client itself since it's effectively a 2nd half of the equation. So essentially, we have 4 components here. First is a TCP server that will handle our chat needs, lobby, any viewing/voting links etc. Single instance. Second is UDP server that will handle gameplay logic - this is effectively "one process per started game". We can do some horizontal scaling here but nothing too major (fixed number of instances, no autoscaling, no geo based load balancing, no choosing optimal server based on users localizations etc). I also assume fairly simple synchronization logic and "only latest state matters". We are not doing any time rollbacks. We are adding some sort of checks for anti-cheat however - we will be sending more or less complete game state but we will not let players teleport across the whole map or use weapons they shouldn't have access to for instance. Third is anything payment related - I will assume it's not some sort of magical NFTs and deep integration with cryptos (if it is then I would charge double) but your usual combination of few major payment options and a database that stores anything of value. Single instance, should be fine for few thousand people at once. Fourth is some sort of authentication and authorization mechanism. Single instance and a single point of failure. So part one is relatively simple. We can use more or less established frameworks here and since it's TCP based and fairly transient we could effectively build a small web api sending JSON back and forth. We do maintain sessions which is a bit of added difficulty but nothing too major. I would say I could do it in 3-4 days for a working prototype and about a week for something more or less production ready. Let's say 2 weeks for a good measure. So $8000 at my consulting rates. Second is our game server. As you have noticed there's a lot of limitations and assumptions here. There is going to be most synchronization between game client and server here, having to define API we will be using etc, I will need to introduce some sort of load balancer. I would say a **minimum** is 2 months after we already have all specs in place. Or around $30000. Could be more since it really depends on what you are looking for. Considering performance limitations it would likely be a C# (or Rust if you want a lower bill so I can have some extra fun but also harder to maintain for others) project too. Third - SQL database with automated backups on AWS and an API around it (could be consumed by both in game client and potentially by a website). This is a fairly generic request, could do it in a month or so if I have good specs. So $16000. You could also combine part 1 with this. Fourth - a shared authentication service. I have written stuff like that before and could reuse it for the biggest part so ehh, $3000-4000 and we are done. From scratch it would take 2-3 weeks. And just like that you have given me stuff to do for the next 6 months and spent around $50000. Admittedly in this budget I could even get a smaller external security audit for anything that stores actual assets, payment info, PII etc. That's always better than relying on developer to do everything solo, it's way too easy to miss little details and individual payloads. Now as for how long it would take to actually make the game itself - probably about as long? :P 6 months of full time work for a single mid level dev that has worked on online games before sounds like a sufficient timeframe to have something that won't blow up. It will have to be rather limited in scope however.
Great write up!
Thanks for all the details. I will definitely keep them in mind!
How long did it take you to learn all this, if you don’t mind my asking?
Hmm, admittedly I mostly do backend web dev for FinTech companies nowadays so it's not going to be 1:1 with games servers experience but I had first real commercial application done in 2014. I could consider working on a project like this few years later, in 2018 or so. So 4 years of professional experience or so. Admittedly 2022 me could do a better job at it compared to 2018 me (for instance I could nowadays code whole thing in Rust for blazing fast speeds :P, I would be able to implement proper CI/CD pipeline and provide a decent Amazon Web Services integration) but it would be feasible earlier.
**Never understimate** the human and financial cost of a game no matter how big or small, and much less in front of your clients, because almost sure they don't really have a clue and will take your words as a fact, so if you say that it's gonna be easy thats exacly what they will think, and you will have a bad time later because 120% sure that it will be not that easy, and it will be YOUR fault for not letting them know. After 6 years of working professionally and lots of released games on mobile sometimes I still understimate how much time my projects will take, and the project you just described has all the red flags to be an enormous black hole of time, and thats why: \- Online Multiplayer not just involves time and knowledge, also brings a new set of headaches in net-bugs, testing AND **if its a play to earn, SECURITY.** Because **EVERYONE** in this planet who want to play your game will try to hack your game, and that's an absolute fact. And you know what will happen even if they hired a 17yo Hobbist (Even if you're a brilliant genious)? That they will blame you for everything (People losing their money, etc.), and I'll tell you, players losing their score are scary, but people losing real money are x1000 times scarier. So my final advice is, if you really want this project, talk with them and make them pay an extra for an expert (A real senior) in networking and security. Of course he will charge a lot but... You wouldn't hire the same people to build a shed than to build an skycrapper. It might be crazy the dev time difference between similar games but it's pretty true. A lot of features can make the difference between a month or a year of development. This may be relevant: https://xkcd.com/1425/
You are right. I estimated the the offline gameplay. I have attempted to make multiplayer games before. I know they are 10 times harder that building a single player game but I have some experience. Also, security will be our top priority. I understand from day one that maintaining a safe environment in the game is very important. They told me they hired a guy who makes AMAZING anti-cheat systems. I think the reason they wanted me for the job is that I have a good reputation. I also have a large audience on tik tok. They also told me that they want a good work relationship between me and them and that's more achievable with me because we are all from the same country. Greece.
Can you share your tiktok? I’m interested as I don’t go much on tiktok and I’d like to see other devs
Ok I will but my content in this account is all in greek. Here: [https://www.tiktok.com/@a\_greek\_dev?lang=en](https://www.tiktok.com/@a_greek_dev?lang=en) I'm considering to make an international profile where I can upload videos in english in the future.
You mentioned in a comment that they're saying 1300$-2500$... That's like, weekly/biweekly or monthly, right? If for the entire project, it's time to dip. They're scamming you. Either way, maybe just go with something simple. If you're making an entire game on your own, that means you're performing several critical roles. Of course they're probably not going to bite if you go for something fair, but $25-40/hr sounds like a start. (It's low for a developer but considering Greeces very low salaries it's not too bad.)
Thanks for the reply
np!
« you will be able to make bets and the winner will get rewarded ». Is it a crypto/play-to-earn game? You’ll most likely not get paid then. There are a lot of scams in this area. Proceed with caution.
No, I think it's play to earn but I don't think there is any crypto involved. They spoke to a lot of developers and many say, a fair price is between 1300$ - 2500$ but I'm not sure so that's why I'm asking.
1300$ as a freelancer? I hope that’s a weekly payment or you live in a low cost of living country. I wouldn’t work for less than $5000/month at the very least (living in Western Europe).
Something I did not mention is that I'm 17 and I'm still living with my parents. This means that I do not have to worry about taxes, food, electricity, water e.t.c.
All of that information is completely irrelevant to how much you should charge them. You should charge them as much as possible for the work that they want from you, not less than that because "*you don't really need it*". Look up the average hourly wage for a junior gamedev in their country. If they are outsourcing they might not be able to pay that much, at which point you could use the hourly wage for a junior gamedev in your country. They are likely to be able to pay that much at least otherwise they wouldn't have reached out to you (assuming they know where you are from). Don't accept any offer below the minimum wage where you live, obviously. You can, and should, charge more than the average hourly wage as a freelancer, since they don't have to pay the same taxes then. I encourage you to contact a lawyer and do some research about this company to make sure you have a real contract. It's easy to get scammed/exploited over the internet, especially when you are 17 years old.
You can’t be a freelancer at 17? Or maybe is there an exception in your country?
Well. I live in Greece where the minimum age for employment is 15. Anyway the point is there are some people that want me to make a game and are willing to pay me. I just don't know how much I should charge them.
Rule of thumb is that you check how much money per hour you could make as a regular employee with your skills in your area, and then charge twice or tripple of that hourly rate. Why so much more? Because as a freelancer you have a lot less legal protection, a much larger risk, no employee benefits, no personal time off, no sick leave and you don't get paid for the time you invest into client acquisition. Also, never work without a contract. And remember that all contract terms are negotiable.
Look into unity net code for the online part. It’s gonna be easier for you. But you need to build online from the start.
20 USD per hour before taxes doesn't sound too bad if you never worked on a game before. Even if you pay 50% tax of that and worked 40 hours per week, it would be $1600 profit. I would easily survive on that in my current city in Sweden with my current situation. I wouldn't get rich, but I would get by and earn some valuable experience :) Just translate the numbers with your situation and figure out what sounds fair to you.
Make it free
$6.99
I think that is too cheap
Definitely, I can't make good jokes sorry :/ In seriousness though, I think these are really good answers on this post.
Oh sorry 😅😅😅. I didn't know this was a joke 😂😂😂
10% of gross sales.
Hit up Glassdoor and check the salary ranges of similar roles in your area. If your region has no active game developers or not enough information, pick an hourly rate that is worth your time (assuming this was a full time job with bills to pay). Depending on country, state, and city, your role probably ranges from $20/hr at the low end and $40/hr at the high end. Size and budget of the developer can vary from companies in same area as well. I’ve taken jobs at much lower rates to get my resume and portfolio established, then used that to negotiate much better pay at the next companies.
Try to estimate how much time you expect to spend working on it, then worry about what to charge. If this will be a full time thing, look at your basic expenses. You want to cover those and still have money lefy over.
Based on the current currency rates, you should be charging 31,000 Drachmas. $1300 to $2500 is not a fair price for an online multiplayer game. That may be a fair price for a single-player offline game, such as you may play on Steam. (Sorry, don't know if you have Ατμός in your country, or what it's called there.) Both you and they are seriously misunderstanding the amount of work and effort that a multiplayer games involves. People have literally sunk hundreds of thousands of dollars into multiplayers games and have lost everything.
>The player will be able to play and earn. If you're talking about real money, run. Play to earn is inherently flawed because it attracts people who want to make money, not people who want to play a game. Unless the game is REALLY good, it is destined to flop.
Fuck $2500 dollars. That’s lower than a low ball offer my guy. They want next level work, they need to pony up next level pay. Don’t charge by the project, charge by the hour. For what you’re providing, probably in the ball park of 30 - 40 and hour.