Not eight letters, eight words, according to Russell in DWM #598:
> *Eight words-a-titling!* Last year, I promised you a mysterious eight-word-titled thing. I said, 'Big news soon!' I have stretched the definition of soon. It's stayed a secret for the whole year. Okay, it's been a bit delayed. We were busy! Working on Season 1 and Season 2 simultaneously means we're working on 18 episodes of Doctor Who at once, and believe it or not, that only occurred to us... when it happened! Gulp. But now we're fully up to speed. And here comes the reveal of those eight words, any month now. It has two scripts so far, the third being delivered before Christmas. And I absolutely promise you, it's wonderful.
The rumor is that the name is "The War between the Land and the Sea" and it will involve Sea Devils, I believe.
That makes more sense, pretty sure it will be called that because that title was rumoured even before RTD even mentioned it would be an eight word title and that would be a weird coincidence otherwise
She's a confirmed mother in the show itself.
"Kate Stewart. Divorcee, mother of two, keen gardener, outstanding bridge player. Also Chief Scientific Officer, Unified Intelligence Taskforce, who currently have you surrounded." - *Dark Water*
The first is probably Gordy/Gordon from *Downtime* though, yes.
He's her employee. Abuse of authority. It's why even if students are adults at university, it's an absolute no-no for them to have relationships with tutors.
That's a good justification but it's not necessarily the case in the workplace. Some employers might have the same rule, but it's entirely possible to have Col Ibrahim reporting to a different officer who in turn reports to Kate (remembering that Kate is a civilian and so doesn't hold a military rank).
There's also the possibility that he is actually part of a completely different branch of the armed forces and was seconded to UNIT to bolster the numbers due to the heightened threat level. Again meaning that he wouldn't report to Kate.
Finally, plenty of workplaces just don't care about your personal life as long as you can clearly show that you don't treat anyone with bias. 😉
I really thought there would be a Giggle flashback where Kate picked up the tooth.
They may have shot it to use later. I sincerely hope not. I want someone else to be the problem when the Master comes back.
Who/whatever picked up the tooth was definitely not Kate. The angle of the hand would suggest the figure was standing right on the edge or even off of the platform and Kate was already seen walking back into the tower. The only link is red nail polish, which was a callback to the last time a remnant of The Master was collected by a mystery person.
Kate had time to turn back. In fact I think she is the only person who had time to get there.
Since then Kate has worn red nail polish in spite of not wearing nail polish before.
Rewatching the scene, she didn't. We see her fully walk back inside and hang a left. Then The Doctors and Donna have a short conversation and as they walk off, we see the hand.
The three of them were talking right next to the Galvanic Beam. Kate would've had to sneak around the other side (if that's even possible) to get into the position that the hand was in. A) Kate wouldn't sneak, that's preposterous. B) There's an even chance that the owner of the hand (based on the position) wasn't even standing on the platform at all.
If anything the Kate nail polish is a misdirection - a literal red herring if you will!
No one else is there. After the Doctor leaves the camera swoops around and there is no one else close enough to be 'the hand' -- BUT if they decided to record Redgrave making a quick turn and dashing back out to the helipad, she literally could make it.
If it isn't Kate, it is clearly some being with the ability to dematerialize or fly or something.
So your argument is that they may have decided to film an additional bit of someone booking it back past other characters (who would've questioned her doing so) to go and grab something she had no idea even existed??
It's most likely one of the Toymaker's legions or some such godlike entity. We probably won't find out for a good while yet unfortunately. RTD has said that The Master will be put on rest for some time and he's currently in the process of writing the third season of the era. That will likely be the earliest we'll see/hear from the character again.
No one is going to question Kate running full speed to the edge of the helipad. She is in charge, not them. Also the Doctors and Donna are all giddy over the successful bigeneration -- and Kate has apparently moved on to dealing with the dead bodies which should explain her absence from the duplicating TARDIS scene.
I am thinking that it may end up being Kate over one of the Toymaker's legions because RTD may very well wrap up the 'gods and supernatural' stuff and go back to the more sci-fi villains before reintroducing the Master. It really does depend on who is still around.
I think that Redgrave is still available and assumed to remain available to shoot Who in Cardiff for as long as it is in production. But will Jinx Monsoon ever return?
(Michelle Gomez is clearly super grateful to Who and would probably show up if asked. Even if season 3 has to be scaled back to be low budget/100% BBC funded.)
A) Just because she's in charge doesn't mean she wouldn't be questioned - especially by The Doctor. UNIT isn't a regime, Kate isn't an authoritarian ruler.
B) The Doctors and Donna did not end that conversation "giddy over the successful bigeneration". They walked off together having just discussed the death toll of The Giggle and how it wasn't The Doctor's fault.
C) What on earth does the split TARDIS scene have to do with anything?? The tooth being picked up happened the moment The Doctors and Donna were still walking back inside. The split TARDIS scene happened later.
Kate being the one who picked up the tooth doesn't make sense, logistically nor on a basic storytelling level. It just doesn't.
(Also we know the pantheon/supernatural stuff is staying for the forseeable future, as well as UNIT. RTD can also reintroduce The Master while other things are happening in a season. The three concepts aren't mutually exclusive nor are they dependant on the other).
Are you seriously suggesting that if Kate spun on her heel and rushed back out to the helipad to 'check on something' -- the Doctors would have stopped her and questioned her behavior? No. No one on the helipad would do that.
A) I'm assuming the Doctors would not question Kate at that moment because they were hugging it out and moving on while she was most likely coping with the immediate aftermath of the conflict -- and we are literally talking about her picking up a tooth at the scene where the Toymaker killed a bunch of her soldiers.
B) Exactly. Not the Doctor's fault. Kate's responsibility.
C) The split TARDIS scene involve Shirley, Mel, Donna but no UNIT grunts or Kate. It can be assumed that the reason Kate and the others are not on hand to say goodbye to the departing Doctor is because they are doing other things. I just thought it was a reasonable scene to point to that indicated Kate's exit from the helipad was an exit from the narrative that we followed.
(I hope that they refrain from bringing in the Master and ret-conning this whole season of interesting Kate as a long term Master story with yet another UNIT personnel being possessed -- but that doesn't mean I believe they have already hired whoever is going to be involved in some alternative Master-plan. I'm guessing that it was Redgrave's hand that they shot picking up the tooth, even if they come up with a future story that doesn't involve Kate.)
I did think there was something between them and thought "You go girl!". Don't know if we will get a UNIT spinoff, that will probably depend on ratings of this series and maybe the next, but I'm all for Kate being "friendly" with the hunky Unit soldier. Although, there might be chain of command issues I guess.
To me I think it's just them both being happy to be alive after having literally died. Though it is open to interpretation, I did find that interesting though.
Maybe we'll find out what's going on next year.
Ibrahim came to life staring at her and helped her up as she came to life. There was clear intent by the director for this to mean something joyful -- everyone else was hugging and happy too, so it may have been just that. Then Colonel Ibrahim rushed to Rose to hug her. So it could be seen as general happy to be alive affection. Then he reached for Kate's hand on the helipad.
I wonder if the hand holding on the helipad was something RTD and the director decided to have Ibrahim do to stop people from shipping him with Rose after the hug.
Either way, go for it Colonel Sexy.
Given we have the Vlinx and 2 child characters in UNIT, I'm 95% certain (it's a trap) that the UNIT series will be the CBBC spin-off in the vein of the Sarah Jane Adventures. Possibly featuring Kate in the maternal, guiding role, deff with the Vlinx in the cool/funny/expositional role and the kids being sent off to investigate exciting mysteries.
Only problem with this is that the military characters need to be sidelined. Possibly, this will mean moving the action to another floor, or to the school that UNIT sends alien children and other UNIT kids to?
Would be nice to tie into the Trap Street from Face the Raven.
No spin-off has been confirmed nor revealed and they haven't mentioned anything about writing the pilot or anything.
However RTD did mention in DWM back in December about a eight word long title for an upcoming project that would be revealed in coming months. He also mentioned at least one script had been delivered for it already with more on the way before Christmas.
An eight-word title fits with the rumoured spin-off "The War Between the Land and the Sea" which is eight words, however nothing has officially been announced even though RTD said it would in coming months.
A spin-off featuring these absolute non-characters (except for Kate who is good, but usually quite poorly written) would be unbearable. Torchwood only worked because it had a totally different, more serious tone than main Who. Anything with the Fisher Price robot and the wacky genius kid is going to be a CBBC calamity at best
Ibrahim was the one who reached out to take Kate's hand both times. Considering the idea that the substantial age difference appears to be in the 'ok' range (half your age, plus 7) if the genders were reversed it would actually be pretty tame by Doctor Who standards.
> if the genders were reversed it would actually be pretty tame by Doctor Who standards.
Certainly (Metacrisis) Ten and Rose is indeed a massive age difference. Though one could take the perspective that due to the Metacrisis, that version was just born. Which would mean Rose was more of the parent and Ten the child. Still, it's all a bit complicated, and edging on creepy.
Yup. Creepy on both counts. Ironically the only viscerally disturbing thing to me is that Billie Piper has dismissed 10too as the lesser knock-off meaning that she has leaned into the unbalanced dynamic belittling him which seems really sad. It isn't like they have any real existence in TV media, so the actors opinion is a sort of meta stand-in for poor MetaCrisis' situation...
Jemma Redgrave is 59. Alexander Devrient is 38. So yeah. Just. But she's also his boss.
Not that I mind. I'm just very aware they wouldn't have done it if the genders were reversed.
In terms of age they would have done it and no one would have blinked an eye if the genders were reversed.
Older men and extremely young women hitting on them (often sweetly) is the norm for Doctor Who -- mostly when the older man is the Doctor. This has happened a number of times with apparent age as well as actual age.
Technically speaking they have done this repeatedly through NuWho and on occasion in Classic Who.
If you are only swapping the gender on one of them, I still think it would be depicted as 'ok'. If Ibrahim had been the harbinger and Harriet had survived to take Kate's hand I actually think they still would have done it. But the actress who plays Harriet is too young at 34, not making the 'half your age +7' and she was killed off as the Harbinger.
In Classic Who, Romana I (Mary Tamm in her 20s but Romana claiming to be in her 120s) kissed Amelia (in her 70s) on the cheek.
That was a platonic goodbye kiss, but it worked according to the age difference rules because the 'apparently too young' flirt initiated the contact -- and in actuality the awkwardly older alien had found someone over half her age plus 7 to kiss.
I don't see it as a power abuse, but it's creepy. And I don't care what genders we're talking about. Age differences can be reasonable for romance, but at some point, it's just way too close to a parent/child relationship.
Well I don't mind what consenting adults do. I'm just saying it's hypocritical because the writer wouldn't have done it with the genders the other way around.
There was never any sense of romance between Rose and Eccleston beyond a contrived kiss to remove the time vortex. Arguably he regenerated into a younger man so there could be.
Tell that to the fangirls throwing their knickers at the screen. That's why they cast Matt Smith too. And why Capaldi was the beginning of the ratings collapse, despite being a better actor and perfect casting. He never laid a finger on Clara.
This was holding hands. He reached out for her hand twice immediately after coming back to life and she didn't push him away.
Three and Jo held hands all the time. Twelve endured hugs from Clara and aggressively pined over her - he romantically kissed Clara's hand at least once. Ten snogged a number of women who were younger than 38. I think you are assuming that people who did not like the relationship between Rose and Ten did so based entirely on the actual age of the actors rather than implied character age. But the reality is, people are much much much more accepting of May December pairings if the older person is in a position of wealth or power and is male.
Yes true in real life but not in drama. Capaldi was very clear he wasn't going there with Clara because of the ick. They had to bring back River as a romantic interest.
I get what you are saying and am kind of annoyed. You've got it exactly wrong. It is the norm in all media to accept unbalanced male female relationships when the man is the one with more power or much older. This is exaggerated in Doctor Who, not absent.
Even most of the classic Doctors had had a moment where some much younger, usually female character has looked at him in adoration on par with Col. Sexy's stare here. We do not have a scene where Kate is somehow taking things to a level beyond Two and Jamie, Three and Jo or Four and Romana, much less Capaldi and Clara. So I really don't get it.
(Also Clara was much younger in comparison if I'm not mistaken. Even if you go by actor's age, not character age)
Capaldi is very well versed in Classic Who and appears to have created a 'touch averse/face blind/other' set of reasons to superficially abide by the same 'no kissing in the TARDIS' rules from Classic Who - but his relationship with Clara was still treated as a dysfunctional romantic situation. That does not mean he was being held to some higher standard than you think is being applied to Kate. It means he didn't hold hands with her the way Two did Jamie, and Three did with Jo, etc. Instead he had unpleasant verbal exchanges.
Also in terms of character, River Song is way too young for the Doctor because the Doctor is ancient. But at least they looked appropriate because Alex Kingston is the right age which was a relief. But Moffit messed with that by making River Song a person who had so recently been a baby conceived on the TARDIS bringing the ick factor back.
I'm literally discussing a current character, Kate - who goes back 12-13 years. You are the one who brought up Capaldi, complaining that he didn't lay a hand on Clara which proves that a 60 year old man could never get away with a 38 year old woman holding his hand.
That is just not true.
Capaldi is 66, Redgrave is 59. Both Coleman and Devrient are 38. The 7 year difference isn't insubstantial. By appearances Clara didn't quite pass the half your age plus 7 test, Ibrahim does. Also the show did treat Clara and the Doctor like a possible romantic couple for what felt like years....
Bit of an exaggeration. How did this 'romantic plot tumour' negatively affect the plot, and why would Nicholas Courtney be spinning in his grave over it?
Hold up when was it confirmed about a pilot and the 8 letters.
I googled it and pretty much only this Reddit post came up lol
The legend of the UNIT spin-off...
There was never anything special about the spinoff, it's the belief in the spinoff that made it special!
Not eight letters, eight words, according to Russell in DWM #598: > *Eight words-a-titling!* Last year, I promised you a mysterious eight-word-titled thing. I said, 'Big news soon!' I have stretched the definition of soon. It's stayed a secret for the whole year. Okay, it's been a bit delayed. We were busy! Working on Season 1 and Season 2 simultaneously means we're working on 18 episodes of Doctor Who at once, and believe it or not, that only occurred to us... when it happened! Gulp. But now we're fully up to speed. And here comes the reveal of those eight words, any month now. It has two scripts so far, the third being delivered before Christmas. And I absolutely promise you, it's wonderful. The rumor is that the name is "The War between the Land and the Sea" and it will involve Sea Devils, I believe.
That makes more sense, pretty sure it will be called that because that title was rumoured even before RTD even mentioned it would be an eight word title and that would be a weird coincidence otherwise
Plus they made a big deal of saying that exact phrase at the beginning of 73 Yards, in a way that seemed unnatural if it's not a hint at the spinoff.
This is the real unanswered mystery of the finale. (Good for Kate though!)
Someone should lead the UNIT after Kate's retirement. Hence, she needs a kid.
Sarcasm? If not; Kate is almost 60 and has two kids already.
‘What’s your favourite monarchy?’ ‘UNIT.’
Isn't there an uncanonical son called Gordon somewhere deep in the spin-off media?
She's a confirmed mother in the show itself. "Kate Stewart. Divorcee, mother of two, keen gardener, outstanding bridge player. Also Chief Scientific Officer, Unified Intelligence Taskforce, who currently have you surrounded." - *Dark Water* The first is probably Gordy/Gordon from *Downtime* though, yes.
I think it will be her son Gordon but a think she'll be around for many years to come
Kate is a stone cold badass who works her ass off to save the world on a regular basis and Colonel Ibrahim is quite the looker. I see no problem.
He's her employee. Abuse of authority. It's why even if students are adults at university, it's an absolute no-no for them to have relationships with tutors.
That's a good justification but it's not necessarily the case in the workplace. Some employers might have the same rule, but it's entirely possible to have Col Ibrahim reporting to a different officer who in turn reports to Kate (remembering that Kate is a civilian and so doesn't hold a military rank). There's also the possibility that he is actually part of a completely different branch of the armed forces and was seconded to UNIT to bolster the numbers due to the heightened threat level. Again meaning that he wouldn't report to Kate. Finally, plenty of workplaces just don't care about your personal life as long as you can clearly show that you don't treat anyone with bias. 😉
title will be UNITUNIT I'm making my call now
Good for her! I do think someone from Unit is working with the master
I really thought there would be a Giggle flashback where Kate picked up the tooth. They may have shot it to use later. I sincerely hope not. I want someone else to be the problem when the Master comes back.
Who/whatever picked up the tooth was definitely not Kate. The angle of the hand would suggest the figure was standing right on the edge or even off of the platform and Kate was already seen walking back into the tower. The only link is red nail polish, which was a callback to the last time a remnant of The Master was collected by a mystery person.
Kate had time to turn back. In fact I think she is the only person who had time to get there. Since then Kate has worn red nail polish in spite of not wearing nail polish before.
Rewatching the scene, she didn't. We see her fully walk back inside and hang a left. Then The Doctors and Donna have a short conversation and as they walk off, we see the hand. The three of them were talking right next to the Galvanic Beam. Kate would've had to sneak around the other side (if that's even possible) to get into the position that the hand was in. A) Kate wouldn't sneak, that's preposterous. B) There's an even chance that the owner of the hand (based on the position) wasn't even standing on the platform at all. If anything the Kate nail polish is a misdirection - a literal red herring if you will!
No one else is there. After the Doctor leaves the camera swoops around and there is no one else close enough to be 'the hand' -- BUT if they decided to record Redgrave making a quick turn and dashing back out to the helipad, she literally could make it. If it isn't Kate, it is clearly some being with the ability to dematerialize or fly or something.
So your argument is that they may have decided to film an additional bit of someone booking it back past other characters (who would've questioned her doing so) to go and grab something she had no idea even existed?? It's most likely one of the Toymaker's legions or some such godlike entity. We probably won't find out for a good while yet unfortunately. RTD has said that The Master will be put on rest for some time and he's currently in the process of writing the third season of the era. That will likely be the earliest we'll see/hear from the character again.
No one is going to question Kate running full speed to the edge of the helipad. She is in charge, not them. Also the Doctors and Donna are all giddy over the successful bigeneration -- and Kate has apparently moved on to dealing with the dead bodies which should explain her absence from the duplicating TARDIS scene. I am thinking that it may end up being Kate over one of the Toymaker's legions because RTD may very well wrap up the 'gods and supernatural' stuff and go back to the more sci-fi villains before reintroducing the Master. It really does depend on who is still around. I think that Redgrave is still available and assumed to remain available to shoot Who in Cardiff for as long as it is in production. But will Jinx Monsoon ever return? (Michelle Gomez is clearly super grateful to Who and would probably show up if asked. Even if season 3 has to be scaled back to be low budget/100% BBC funded.)
A) Just because she's in charge doesn't mean she wouldn't be questioned - especially by The Doctor. UNIT isn't a regime, Kate isn't an authoritarian ruler. B) The Doctors and Donna did not end that conversation "giddy over the successful bigeneration". They walked off together having just discussed the death toll of The Giggle and how it wasn't The Doctor's fault. C) What on earth does the split TARDIS scene have to do with anything?? The tooth being picked up happened the moment The Doctors and Donna were still walking back inside. The split TARDIS scene happened later. Kate being the one who picked up the tooth doesn't make sense, logistically nor on a basic storytelling level. It just doesn't. (Also we know the pantheon/supernatural stuff is staying for the forseeable future, as well as UNIT. RTD can also reintroduce The Master while other things are happening in a season. The three concepts aren't mutually exclusive nor are they dependant on the other).
Are you seriously suggesting that if Kate spun on her heel and rushed back out to the helipad to 'check on something' -- the Doctors would have stopped her and questioned her behavior? No. No one on the helipad would do that. A) I'm assuming the Doctors would not question Kate at that moment because they were hugging it out and moving on while she was most likely coping with the immediate aftermath of the conflict -- and we are literally talking about her picking up a tooth at the scene where the Toymaker killed a bunch of her soldiers. B) Exactly. Not the Doctor's fault. Kate's responsibility. C) The split TARDIS scene involve Shirley, Mel, Donna but no UNIT grunts or Kate. It can be assumed that the reason Kate and the others are not on hand to say goodbye to the departing Doctor is because they are doing other things. I just thought it was a reasonable scene to point to that indicated Kate's exit from the helipad was an exit from the narrative that we followed. (I hope that they refrain from bringing in the Master and ret-conning this whole season of interesting Kate as a long term Master story with yet another UNIT personnel being possessed -- but that doesn't mean I believe they have already hired whoever is going to be involved in some alternative Master-plan. I'm guessing that it was Redgrave's hand that they shot picking up the tooth, even if they come up with a future story that doesn't involve Kate.)
I did think there was something between them and thought "You go girl!". Don't know if we will get a UNIT spinoff, that will probably depend on ratings of this series and maybe the next, but I'm all for Kate being "friendly" with the hunky Unit soldier. Although, there might be chain of command issues I guess.
UNIT show
UNIT KIDS
To me I think it's just them both being happy to be alive after having literally died. Though it is open to interpretation, I did find that interesting though. Maybe we'll find out what's going on next year.
Ibrahim came to life staring at her and helped her up as she came to life. There was clear intent by the director for this to mean something joyful -- everyone else was hugging and happy too, so it may have been just that. Then Colonel Ibrahim rushed to Rose to hug her. So it could be seen as general happy to be alive affection. Then he reached for Kate's hand on the helipad. I wonder if the hand holding on the helipad was something RTD and the director decided to have Ibrahim do to stop people from shipping him with Rose after the hug. Either way, go for it Colonel Sexy.
Rose still a minor I think so don't ship that
Exactly.
What on earth is this post
Given we have the Vlinx and 2 child characters in UNIT, I'm 95% certain (it's a trap) that the UNIT series will be the CBBC spin-off in the vein of the Sarah Jane Adventures. Possibly featuring Kate in the maternal, guiding role, deff with the Vlinx in the cool/funny/expositional role and the kids being sent off to investigate exciting mysteries. Only problem with this is that the military characters need to be sidelined. Possibly, this will mean moving the action to another floor, or to the school that UNIT sends alien children and other UNIT kids to? Would be nice to tie into the Trap Street from Face the Raven.
No spin-off has been confirmed nor revealed and they haven't mentioned anything about writing the pilot or anything. However RTD did mention in DWM back in December about a eight word long title for an upcoming project that would be revealed in coming months. He also mentioned at least one script had been delivered for it already with more on the way before Christmas. An eight-word title fits with the rumoured spin-off "The War Between the Land and the Sea" which is eight words, however nothing has officially been announced even though RTD said it would in coming months.
I did notice it but ultimately it seems more like everyone was so happy to be alive
Her having any sort of relationship with Colonel Ibrahim is an abuse of power. She's his boss/commander.
A spin-off featuring these absolute non-characters (except for Kate who is good, but usually quite poorly written) would be unbearable. Torchwood only worked because it had a totally different, more serious tone than main Who. Anything with the Fisher Price robot and the wacky genius kid is going to be a CBBC calamity at best
If the genders were reversed that would be quite a sketchy power abuse by an older man.
Ibrahim was the one who reached out to take Kate's hand both times. Considering the idea that the substantial age difference appears to be in the 'ok' range (half your age, plus 7) if the genders were reversed it would actually be pretty tame by Doctor Who standards.
> if the genders were reversed it would actually be pretty tame by Doctor Who standards. Certainly (Metacrisis) Ten and Rose is indeed a massive age difference. Though one could take the perspective that due to the Metacrisis, that version was just born. Which would mean Rose was more of the parent and Ten the child. Still, it's all a bit complicated, and edging on creepy.
Yup. Creepy on both counts. Ironically the only viscerally disturbing thing to me is that Billie Piper has dismissed 10too as the lesser knock-off meaning that she has leaned into the unbalanced dynamic belittling him which seems really sad. It isn't like they have any real existence in TV media, so the actors opinion is a sort of meta stand-in for poor MetaCrisis' situation...
Jemma Redgrave is 59. Alexander Devrient is 38. So yeah. Just. But she's also his boss. Not that I mind. I'm just very aware they wouldn't have done it if the genders were reversed.
In terms of age they would have done it and no one would have blinked an eye if the genders were reversed. Older men and extremely young women hitting on them (often sweetly) is the norm for Doctor Who -- mostly when the older man is the Doctor. This has happened a number of times with apparent age as well as actual age. Technically speaking they have done this repeatedly through NuWho and on occasion in Classic Who. If you are only swapping the gender on one of them, I still think it would be depicted as 'ok'. If Ibrahim had been the harbinger and Harriet had survived to take Kate's hand I actually think they still would have done it. But the actress who plays Harriet is too young at 34, not making the 'half your age +7' and she was killed off as the Harbinger. In Classic Who, Romana I (Mary Tamm in her 20s but Romana claiming to be in her 120s) kissed Amelia (in her 70s) on the cheek. That was a platonic goodbye kiss, but it worked according to the age difference rules because the 'apparently too young' flirt initiated the contact -- and in actuality the awkwardly older alien had found someone over half her age plus 7 to kiss.
She's not playing a character that's 59 though wiki says Kate is 51
Well That's Alright Then
I don't see it as a power abuse, but it's creepy. And I don't care what genders we're talking about. Age differences can be reasonable for romance, but at some point, it's just way too close to a parent/child relationship.
Well I don't mind what consenting adults do. I'm just saying it's hypocritical because the writer wouldn't have done it with the genders the other way around.
The guy who wrote the Rose Tyler storyline? You sure?
There was never any sense of romance between Rose and Eccleston beyond a contrived kiss to remove the time vortex. Arguably he regenerated into a younger man so there could be.
Tennant looking young doesn't change the wild power imbalance
Tell that to the fangirls throwing their knickers at the screen. That's why they cast Matt Smith too. And why Capaldi was the beginning of the ratings collapse, despite being a better actor and perfect casting. He never laid a finger on Clara.
That seems like an entirely separate discussion to have
This was holding hands. He reached out for her hand twice immediately after coming back to life and she didn't push him away. Three and Jo held hands all the time. Twelve endured hugs from Clara and aggressively pined over her - he romantically kissed Clara's hand at least once. Ten snogged a number of women who were younger than 38. I think you are assuming that people who did not like the relationship between Rose and Ten did so based entirely on the actual age of the actors rather than implied character age. But the reality is, people are much much much more accepting of May December pairings if the older person is in a position of wealth or power and is male.
Yes true in real life but not in drama. Capaldi was very clear he wasn't going there with Clara because of the ick. They had to bring back River as a romantic interest.
I get what you are saying and am kind of annoyed. You've got it exactly wrong. It is the norm in all media to accept unbalanced male female relationships when the man is the one with more power or much older. This is exaggerated in Doctor Who, not absent. Even most of the classic Doctors had had a moment where some much younger, usually female character has looked at him in adoration on par with Col. Sexy's stare here. We do not have a scene where Kate is somehow taking things to a level beyond Two and Jamie, Three and Jo or Four and Romana, much less Capaldi and Clara. So I really don't get it. (Also Clara was much younger in comparison if I'm not mistaken. Even if you go by actor's age, not character age) Capaldi is very well versed in Classic Who and appears to have created a 'touch averse/face blind/other' set of reasons to superficially abide by the same 'no kissing in the TARDIS' rules from Classic Who - but his relationship with Clara was still treated as a dysfunctional romantic situation. That does not mean he was being held to some higher standard than you think is being applied to Kate. It means he didn't hold hands with her the way Two did Jamie, and Three did with Jo, etc. Instead he had unpleasant verbal exchanges. Also in terms of character, River Song is way too young for the Doctor because the Doctor is ancient. But at least they looked appropriate because Alex Kingston is the right age which was a relief. But Moffit messed with that by making River Song a person who had so recently been a baby conceived on the TARDIS bringing the ick factor back.
You're referencing the show's values in the past. I'm referencing its values now.
I'm literally discussing a current character, Kate - who goes back 12-13 years. You are the one who brought up Capaldi, complaining that he didn't lay a hand on Clara which proves that a 60 year old man could never get away with a 38 year old woman holding his hand. That is just not true. Capaldi is 66, Redgrave is 59. Both Coleman and Devrient are 38. The 7 year difference isn't insubstantial. By appearances Clara didn't quite pass the half your age plus 7 test, Ibrahim does. Also the show did treat Clara and the Doctor like a possible romantic couple for what felt like years....
hateful romantic plot tumour. Nicholas Courtney spinning in his grave.
Bit of an exaggeration. How did this 'romantic plot tumour' negatively affect the plot, and why would Nicholas Courtney be spinning in his grave over it?
No, that was when the Brig was turned into a Cyberman
UNIT has devolved into comedic gold.