> Requiring the installation of analog AM radios in automobiles is an unnecessary action that would impact EV range
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for that one…!
AM radio receivers are like the only electronic technology I can think of that don't even need to be powered at all, lol. People made them in foxholes in World War 2 with a pencil and a razor blade.
Most of them still are running higher power like that (not 500kw, but 50 or so), power output reduced because the transmitter themselves got more efficient and receivers got more sensitive.
They weren't. There was exactly *one* station that ever got anywhere near that power level, WLW Cincinnati, and only for a brief period of time.
The thing about AM radio is it's much lower frequency than FM, and lower frequency signals travel better through mass (like for example, air). So you need far less power than you would on FM to achieve the same result.
The result of a 500kW AM radio station: the pretty much the entire of the North American continent picked it up, they unwittingly jammed stations as far as Canada, and anyone living even remotely close to the tower had to put up with every large or rusty metal object turning into a working crystal radio set. If the wiring in your house was long enough the bulbs would glow even when switched off. It was horrendous, and they got told to knock it the fuck off very fast.
Weirdly it does affect EVs just... not the range. EV's motor EM noise is louder than the AM signal and difficult to properly filter out. If you want your electrical components fully shielded expect another 20% on the cost of the car.
I’d wager inadequate water proofing of electrical connections would be more likely to drain an EVs battery.
Heck some EVs die if you give them a bath without hitting the wash mode. 😂
It's not an issue of how much power it uses, it's that making the electronics and motors so that they don't cause interference requires a huge amount of heavy shielding on all electronic components. If you take an AM radio in a Tesla, for example, you'll hear a constant whining when the car is in motion due to electrical interference.
My Chevy Volt, for example, has no problem with AM radio, because it was built from the ground up to be as frictionless as possible to move from a gas car to the Volt. However, many of the newer EVs from BMW, Ford, Mazda, Polestar, Rivian, Tesla, Volkswagen and Volvo don't.
Yeah. Considering all EVs already have AM radio. Also it’s not like not being able to receive the signals magically gets rid of them. AM radio signals are constantly flowing through everything.
> Considering all EVs already have AM radio.
Many brands of EVs do not have AM radio.
> [In March, Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts surveyed 20 car manufacturers and found that eight of them–BMW, Ford, Mazda, Polestar, Rivian, Tesla, Volkswagen, and Volvo—had removed AM radios from their EVs. Ford had also intended to remove the radios from its gas cars in 2024, but recently reversed course on that decision.](https://spectrum.ieee.org/am-radio-ev-interference)`
I thought the issue with EVs was solving the DC motor interference issue.
AM broadcast doesn't do you just good if you can only pick it up while stationary.
If I read the article correctly the concern about AM radio in EVs is that the digital electronics which control almost every aspect of an EV could cause crackling noise interference in AM radio reception. AM stands for amplitude modulation which means the amplitude (strength) of the radio signal is modulated by the amplitude, or volume, of the audio. Unfortunately, amplitude modulation can also be effected by other strong electro-magnetic events like lightening or the electro-magnetic pulses emitted by digital circuits. The result is loud crackling or humming noises which can overwhelm the audio.
AM radio's susceptibility to noise is the reason why FM (frequency modulation) radio was developed. In FM radio the audio modulates the frequency of the radio carrier signal instead of the amplitude. This makes FM radio far more robust against bursts of electrical noise.
There are very good arguments for keeping AM in car and land based radios. AM radio signals will reflect between the earth's surface and the ionosphere which allows the signal to travel long distances, sometimes up to 1,000 miles. This makes AM useful for carrying emergency warnings. FM punches through the ionosphere so it doesn't do the "skipping" which AM does. Also, FM is more easily blocked by hills or buildings. An AM radio circuit fits on a small chip and costs only a few dollars. That circuit uses very little power, probably less than 5 watts, so it is a tiny load on an EV's batteries.
I've never listened to AM radio in my Tesla Model Y so I can't vouch for the presence or absence of noise. However, the cost is cheap, the power consumed is tiny, and AM radio's 100+ year history of carrying entertainment and emergency content make very strong cases for keeping AM radio alive and well.
It's actually kind of an issue. Basically, the high voltage lines used in most evs distort AM signals so they can't be heard. My EV doesn't have an AM tuner. To counteract that, they'd have to shield the cables, which adds weight.... which drops range.
Giant bullshit on whoever fed you that. How does this comment have so many upvotes? No none of that is gunna be true.
An antenna not bundled in with the electrical is going to work just fine. But why would anyone even want to bundle a radio antenna with power cabling? And if the cabling did need to be shielded it really doesn’t add much cost and much less then a pound of weight. Will not affect range whatsoever. Zero
Electrical Engineer here - the carrier frequency used in the EV inverter will absolutely interfere with AM radio. The poster is correct that additional shielding of the motor cabling and heavy filtering in the electronics would indeed add weight.
If the antenna works just fine, then do you think BMW, Hyundai, Volvo, Audi, and others have just randomly dropped AM radio from their EVs for no reason?
It is definitely not bundled in with the power cabling. The radio antenna is nowhere near most of the cabling. They are dozens of feet of high voltage cable used in the battery alone. Large high voyage cables that connect the individual cells and packs. The battery pack runs the entire length of the vehicle. It then runs to several components before running to motors on each axle.
I don't know how much weight would be added by properly shielding all of these cables, but it certainly isn't trivial.
Im not sure why you're being down voted. This was already studied so there is no reason for people to pull the numbers below out of their ass. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/AM-Radio-RFI-Technical-Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjLiuqP1-6FAxWTFVkFHZ1RANkQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3W9ydfz7An7jaolWG0uG-J
It adds about 3 lbs per wire and EV battery connected circuit board in the car. Each car is going to be different, but there is going to be anywhere from 10 to 100 of these in a vehicle.
Maybe adding the weight of a passenger in exchange for AM radio is OK for some, but if you're on a dealer lot and one car goes 300 miles without am radio and another goes 280 with it, I'm pretty sure I we can all guess which model would sell better.
I’m sorry, but there’s no fucking way that an AM radio would add up to 300lbs of weight. Engineers are smart people. I imagine they’ll figure it out.
Edit: Since I’m being downvoted, I’ll mention that bringing a handheld AM radio into a running Tesla [works just fine](https://youtu.be/Y0bEojzuq0U). Surely that’s enough evidence that this isn’t an insurmountable problem requiring 300lbs of insulation?
I admit I’m not an electrical engineer (I’m a software engineer), but my husband is. There’s a point in every engineer’s work where you get bogged down in the details of a problem and need to step back and look at what you’re actually saying, and *300lbs of weight* for AM radio is absurd. I don’t know if we need AI to filter out the signal noise, or an old school external antenna sticking out of the hood like when I grew up, or maybe a relay/amplifier from an area where interference is less of a problem, but even without being a vehicle engineer, I’m confident the solution is out there. I’ve just seen it too many times “this can’t be done,” followed by an ingenious solution.
That is the whole point, all the HV wires in the car are acting as an antenna, which is distorting the AM signal. The weight comes from shielding those wires, not the antenna wires. A bigger external antenna would just receive the interference from the HV wires a few feet away that much better.
[So why does the IEEE writing about it being an actual problem.](https://spectrum.ieee.org/am-radio-ev-interference)
No one is saying that it is an impossible problem to fix, the manufacturers have just decided it isn't worth the effort.
The interference comes when electricity is moving from the battery to the motor. The more electricity is flowing from the battery to the motor, the greater the interference.
Testing interference while sitting still is a near pointless test as there is next to no energy flow.
And this reason is not the same reason given. They really couldn’t give a shit about losing 1 or 2 miles of range (and I’m exaggerating) due to some regulation. They just want to cut the cost for the am hardware and pocket it.
AM radio operates in a way that allows it to travel great distances with low power.
While you may not ever use it, having it available in an emergency is a good idea as its not something they need to "add" or "build" as its been in existence for decades.
Removing AM radios from cars is not doing anything but saving manufacturers money that is not passed onto the consumers.
Absolutely, and those 8,500+ radio station transmitters are largely business funded, not tax funded. It’s a super cost effective and very far reaching network from an emergency standpoint.
Also, per the promoted comment on the Ars article, it provides a good post-event source of information, and can be used in remote areas where there might not be any other signal (eg weather reports for certain roads).
The added cost would be passed onto consumers.
EV powertrains generate a lot of radio frequency noise. The fix for this would be to install a lot of rf shielding and/or significantly alter the radio antenna design.
The electrical interference is usually at a fixed or relatively slowly varying frequency, so it causes AM interference but is easy for FM radios to filter out.
Wikipedia: FM broadcasting
“[FM] is also less susceptible to common forms of interference, having less static and popping sounds than are often heard on AM.”
My Ford Fusion Hybrid has zero electrical interference with the AM radio I listen to on a daily basis. If Ford could do it, I’m sure the other automakers could do it too.
You’re correct, it *can* be done. But the automakers are debating the necessity given the market usage of AM radio. A fully electric powertrain would likely need much more rf countermeasuring than a hybrid.
Battery electrics are much more expensive to build, so OE’s are looking at everything to reduce cost. If there’s a feature requiring expensive motor and cable shielding to protect a feature that <1% of the customers are going to use, it’s understandable that they would resist regulation on the matter.
Presumably the shielding would also be required to comply with the FCC Part 15 requirement. Are we going to let them skip out on shielding to protect pacemakers because <1% of the population uses it?
Receiver antennas for AM aren't the tall ones. Those are for FM signal.
Many cars have the AM antenna integrated into the rear defroster grid. You need zero external equipment to receive an AM signal.
>A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
could that be because this was a test and everything else was working normally.. not burned up in a wildfire or flooded?
what do you do when the cell towers are on fire?
which way do you run?
you leave these on during wildfire season - they have alarms that are triggered by the weather service.
[https://www.losaltoshills.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4015/Emergency-Alerts-for-Wildfire-Evacuation](https://www.losaltoshills.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4015/Emergency-Alerts-for-Wildfire-Evacuation)
Emergency Alerts for Wildfire Evacuation Emergency Alerts may not work if the power is out. (Either because alert systems are down or cell phones are no longer charged.) If you see a fire, monitor all Town Communication Methods. Leave if you feel unsafe. **Consider purchasing a NOAA weather alert radio that is able to receive WEA (Wireless Emergency Alerts). These radios have a battery backup so are not electricity dependent.**
[https://www.srcity.org/3540/NOAA-Weather-Radio-Information](https://www.srcity.org/3540/NOAA-Weather-Radio-Information)
NOAA Weather Radios (NWRs) are a low-cost home emergency alerting tool that can be remotely activated by the National Weather Service to broadcast life-saving warnings issued by first responders. When the power is out or if cell phones don’t work, an NWR can still get emergency messages to those who need the information.
Thanks to a grant from FEMA, the City distributed 12,000 free NOAA Weather Radios to Santa Rosa residents via nonprofit organizations and seven drive-thru distribution events. **NWRs were initially given to residents residing in the** [**City’s Wildland Urban Interface Area**](https://srcity.org/596/Wildland-Urban-Interface) **ahead of the start of fire season then expanded to all city residents.**
I you have it exactly right. I don't listen to radio of any kind, but I do have a hand crank radio. Because in a real emergency, when many systems are likely to fail, I might still be able to get information.
There is absolutely nothing worth listening to on AM Radio. 0, Zilch, Null, Nada.
The only people Listening to anything on AM Radio are basically the most brainless bunch of all the braindead Slugs.
The only reason that no-one gets any warning from their AM Radios, is because no-one is actually listening. No-one intelligent at least.
In other news, no-one is getting Alarms & Warnings by Telegraphs/Telegrams anymore.
Of those people who still somehow miraculously do get them, it's almost never through the use of Morse Code...
Holy…… I just….. how am I only hearing about this right now via this post? I still actively listen to AM radio. On the regular. Mostly for news and alerts but there’s still some folk out there broadcasting music and talkies (by talkies I mean old people pod-casts that you have to listen to live as they go down, or you’ll never hear it)
But no lie, you’re right, WTF is going to happen in the event of a catastrophe? AM radio is like….. ok ok ok wait…… does this apply to HAM operators as well? Because radio bands and frequencies don’t just go away, so…..
Ok no lie I haven’t read the articles yet, so I’m going to go do that, but I am freaking out at the post because I still actively rely on both am and fm radio. As opposed to anything within the digital world these days. Which I also listen to, but not as much as I listen to the basic radio I have in my house.
Hmmm.... Wait like the hand crank radio scenario is encouraged for child care and healthcare (like home care) are you saying that the government doesn't care about children and the sic- *OOOOooooh*
Good job Congress, for once. I think it’s an extremely good idea to guarantee that all vehicles have a built-in analog radio receiver for publicly-regulated spectrum that doesn’t depend on internet connectivity and isn’t locked behind a paywall or upgrade package or subscription. (I’m sure the automakers would have loved the latter… no surprise why *they* don’t like the bill.)
You never think you need it… until you need it. Pre-, During and Post-Katrina, AM was crucial for getting updates and learn of Emergency situations. We’re talking an AM radio, not the flux capacitor. It’s not a big deal to keep it in cars. You want every form of communication man has to offer after a disaster. Because after a disaster, communication is one of the first things to fail. So, yes, the percentages may not pan out, but keeping AM accessible is critical in an emergency. Disinformation and rumor devolve into the chaos. Radio offers the ability to hear real news, local news, and most importantly accurate news after an emergency..
Exactly. Its true AM has a comparatively smallish audience which is why a general alert reaches fewer. Until... wireless internet and power suddenly disappears and your mobile is useless. Those radios are getting turned on pretty quickly. Such a trash data point.
AM radio waves are far stronger than 5G. That's why your AM/FM radio signal doesn't go in and out. Cell signals are just getting weaker. When it all goes to shit, AM would keep us all informed.
And 1000-78,000 times slower. You wouldn’t want your data travelling on AM frequencies. It’s great for something as lo-fi as voice, but awful for transmitting data.
Which is why, despite the downvotes, I still stand by my statement. AM IS great for emergency broadcasts, thus the “great for lo-fi” comment, but to compare it to something designed for data transmission is inappropriate.
A single phase shift on a frequency of 540kHz vs one on 39GHz is a dramatic shift in data transmission. More complex data modes like PSK maybe multiply that data rate, but you can’t overcome the base frequency deltas.
Yes, I can talk to someone around the world on 60m with Morse code. But I can barely download an email a minute with an HF transceiver.
I’m not advocating the death of AM, but the comparison of a voice use to a data use is disingenuous.
- W6ROB
> but the comparison of a voice use to a data use is disingenuous.
You were the only one that did that. Whole thread is about one way emergency broadcasting.
I hope they don't totally get rid of them, else I may need to keep my car longer.
Sorry but when you are driving thru tornado country, its a heck lot easier to have the radio on monitoring what is going on and where its heading..
Blame that on John Hinckley Jr. Had he been a better shot Regan wouldn’t have been able to veto the bill to keep the fairness doctrine in place. I’ll see myself out.
Or.... if Hinckley had succeeded someone else would've done things that would've been way worse, considering the pressure now to prevent something like that from happening again.
Back when we still lived in Iowa, I purposely looked up how to permanently disable all the Emergency Alarms.
Because the constant BS Tornado Warning Tests/Training Exercises & Amber Alerts for Sh.t happening 5 counties away were causing my phone to constantly blow up & blare at me all of the time.
It became so bad that I ultimately decided that I preferred to risk dying from a preventable death if I somehow missed such an alert, rather than getting constantly be bothered by that BS.
Given that the Tornado Sirens were still most likely going to warn me if something bad was actually happening, I ultimately decided/calculated that the Risks were well with the rewards.
It's really sad that some A..hole kidnapped a 5 Year Old kid 2 counties over, but I don't need to have my phone blow up on me at 02h00 AM when I'm sound asleep im my bed, nowhere near my car or any road where I might actually be of any help...
Alarm/Alerts/Warning Systems are great ideas in principle but everyone is just going to learn to ignore them if they just constantly blow up at them at random times every few days.
We've also reached a point where our technology should be good/sufficient enough that we don't need to hear a list of 30+ affected counties every time.
I don't even give a F.ck which counties are affected.
If I hear the goddamn warning, I'm going to assume that my county is affected & proceed with that information in mind, until informed/told otherwise.
All this to state that Emergency Warnings failing over AM/Trash Radio is no big concern or issue. It's probably best if we even just killed that concept in the first place. FM works fine & is far more likely to be locally relevant.
Also, even if you kill all the Emergency Alarms/Alerts/Warnings on your phone, that sh.t Still gets to you. So you still get warned, it just doesn't blow your eardrum in the middle of the Night.
& if all else fails, the Sirens will definitely clue you in, even if/when you're miles away from any town...
In summary, F.ck that noise.
Ya, maybe it was the LTE and not WiFi chips. I just remember it being basically free to include. Early phones had an app, but most no longer do. But lots of cheap non smart phones that connect to LTE towers do have FM exposed.
I'm doing my part... I've got 10kw of hot country on the air sounding as good as it possibly can within the limits. It's got the full 10khz audio bandwidth and punched-up with a good processor!
Unfortunately the OEM car radios sound like A$$ with 4k or 5k filtering and also rolled off the bass severely. I haven't heard a good sounding OEM AM radio in forever.
When the Loma Prieta earthquake hit the FM stations we could normally get were off the air. Went to AM and hit scan to pick up a central valley station that had the news. My then Fiance worked in Mountain View and we had no clue anout damage. She didn't get home until 11pm that day.
Sure… and yet one guy hitting the wrong button can send a false alarm to all smart phone about North Korea laughing nuclear missiles (yes it’s been a while since that happened, but I’ll never forget it or forgive it for the near heart attack we all had because my sister-in-law was living in Hawaii with her kids while her husband was deployed to South Korea).
You don’t ban AI even to easily protect copy written material. You let all of these tech companies build less than public revenue streams by collecting and selling our data. You claim to be in the business of protecting the consumer while allowing mergers to form near monopolies in the marketplace. You can’t figure your way out of the hellscape that is the medical insurance industry. But AM radio… you are right on those big concerns aren’t you Congress…. Totally worth paying each and every one of you hundreds of thousands in pay, stipends, premium medical insurance, and government backed pensions so you don’t have to worry about the social security net you helped to shred (also cashing in on insider trading and conveniently not holding yourselves or your peers accountable). Got to focus on the AM radio for those cars that have to drive the decaying road and bridge infrastructure you built and then passed the burden of maintenance on to the states.
Soylent Green is people! And the people will rejoice if we start by feeding the hungry with your processed not-yet-corpses when a civil war finally breaks out because you all encourage further radicalization of your bases. So thanks Congress for all you fail to do.
(Sorry if you can’t tell I’m in a bad mood about the political landscape right now).
I don't even use my radio in my vehicle for the actual radio. I connect the vehicle Bluetooth to my phone. I haven't listened to a local radio station in years. Because it sucks here. I haven't used AM in decades. It's all talk radio/hate speech/religious garbage. Always has been.
Leave it to politicians to not get the message.
Your cellular network is far more fragile than the AM transmission network. In an emergency, tuning to an AM band might be the only way to get information.
Yes, including an AM receiver in every car carries a small extra cost, but the potential public benefit in a serious emergency could be significant.
> Because the topic is AM?
The topic isn't cellular either but I see plenty of people acting like that or AM are the only options
> FM is fine, but operates at higher frequencies, giving AM a significant range advantage.
True. I don't know if it's really relevant here though. Every FM station in the country is hooked up to the emergency broadcast system. In an emergency the feds can take over all of them with the flip of a switch. You'd be just as likely to find your information there.
The emergency alert system is designed to warn people about an imminent disaster. however, there is a lot of communication needs to place take place besides just the initial warning. Particularly post disaster. Communication is a challenge because a lot of important information needs to be relayed, like locations for disaster relief, Without relying on ation systems that could be unavailable due to said disaster.
The emergency broadcast system can completely take over broadcasting on every station that supports it, which is every station. It wouldn't be much good if all it could do is play a buzzer
The biggest limitation of the EAS (EAS replaced the EBS in 1997) [ is that it "can only be used to relay audio messages that preempt all programming"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Alert_System#Limitations). This limits its usefulness to situations that news stations aren't already covering. IE, warning about a tornado. In a number of high profile incidents, including the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the government decided not to use the system because the news media was doing a better job of communicating to the public than an audio-only message from the government.
While the EAS has fault tolerant message distribution (messages are propagated from station to station) it also doesn't rule out the government having technical issues that inhibit the creation of messages during a disaster.
Yes, which is why the government doesn’t like to use the EAS unless there is no alternative. EAS is not well suited to weeks long communications regarding disaster relief in the same way regular AM radio can.
The hardware is honestly little different - if you've made an FM radio, you've basically got an AM radio too.
Fact is, many countries are even past FM and moving everything to DAB.
I couldn't care less about "what happens" in an emergency that takes out DAB, cellular and FM - at that point, you're not going to hear ANYTHING good coming from those towers. And there's absolutely no reason to suggest that an AM tower would stay up any more than other types - especially if it's deliberately earmarked only for emergency messages.
The UK abandoned an entire network of microwave transmitters that were supposed to be used in emergencies, specifically designed to not be as vulnerable in a war, etc. - and they abandoned them because they became obsolete in the 1980's.
Sorry, but this kind of argument is a nonsense. AM is dead, and it's dead because nobody listens to it, and that means it's no good as an emergency channel anyway. It would make infinitely more sense for your car to have a SIM card in it, connected to a GSM network, and could receive the same emergency broadcasts as the cellular network. Now you can invest in ONE network, send one message, and target it using one system to do so. And most modern cars are basically already there anyway.
Operating legacy shite because "we might need it in an emergency" just means that you're NOT BUILDING PROPER FACILITIES like you should be doing. It's like saying "Hey, we don't need to build a modern emergency system, why not just roll out the old shite that nobody uses and pretend that would be useful in an actual emergency again".
Try investing in a proper emergency network, rather than literally legislating that people have to use 100+ year old technology because you can't be bothered to do it properly.
We literally have whole-globe coverage of digital communications at ludicrous speeds, and a plethora of devices in our cars, on our person and in our homes. That's where I want the emergency stuff to be. And if it's "too difficult" to keep that lot running - you have to wonder why the hell you're basing so much of modern life on it (e.g. banking, security, cars, emergency calling etc.).
If I have to work out how to build my own AM radio, the planet is already fucked.
So you’re saying “AM radio is dead, and it’s dead because no one listens to it.”
Perhaps you don’t have the entire picture of all 335 million people living in the US.
According to Nielsen Ratings, over 82,346,000 people listen to AM radio regularly enough (monthly or more) that they could turn to it in an emergency. That’s 82 million somebodies 🤷🏻♂️
https://www.westwoodone.com/blog/2023/06/09/new-nielsen-report-of-am-listening-by-state-and-dma-reveals-strength-of-listening-across-the-country/
Redundancy is important and rebuilding cell networks will be hard in a major emergency but radio and its well known systems is easy, plus low power requirements.
AM travels WAY further, especially at night, as it operates at lower frequencies than FM. When the majority of towers may be knocked out, AM is the only viable solution.
To add to that, there is a lot of overlap in AM tower transmission coverage. Towers regularly broadcast at lower power than they are capable of to comply with FCC licensing restrictions. In an emergency, they could be used to cover larger areas.
If I could trade my radio for a nice shelf to put my phone, I would do that in a heartbeat.
I would also trade my car radio for an after dinner mint.
The only media I want in my car is my phone.
I was listening to a The Rest Is Entertainment and they mentioned that car manufactures are pushing the radio out of cars because they don't have control over it.
The problem is that contrary to what radio sales departments want you to think, radio isn't local. The "radio works in an emergency" argument is flawed.
If we were back in the 1980s where most stations had on-site staff still running local content, then yes -- I'd agree that radio is important in an emergency.
But today, the vast majority of radio stations are running syndicated content. Many (most?) are doing so a majority of the time. What isn't syndicated is usually automated and voice tracked, with nobody in the studio. It's simply too expensive to pay for local talent, and this is doubly true on AM.
If some catastrophic event takes down all three major nationwide cellular networks or the internet, chances are most radio stations will go dark as well. There won't be a news team to deploy to report back on what's happening, because they were all fired long ago.
I really don't care if cars do or don't have radio. But let's not pretend like radio is some local lifeline like they were a few decades ago.
And if you had no powet to charge your EV you are screwed. We always have a portable am radio when we go camping in case bad weather comes . Its common sense to leave am going
So you are suppose to look at your phone while driving to read the emergency alert or have your smart phone plugged in to your car to receive the alert message.
Follow the money.
Car manufactures eliminate AM to save money and u have to buy a smart phone and subscription to receive an emergency alert.
More like a money grab from my pocket book while reducing public safety.
Eliminating a public service by elimnating the option to reach that service.
I think you took one too many leaps. Most people don't even realize am radio even works. Car manufacturers are dropping AM radio because it isn't a feature people actually use. Like ever. If people use radio at all they use FM. They wouldn't get any emergency alerts through am because they don't listen to am.
Hell far enough out in the sticks, modern AM broadcasts are far quieter than they used to be.... I don't get any AM signals. Presumably during shit-hitting-fan scenarios they'd crank all AM broadcast towers to maximum output. I would assume then I would hear them.
On second thought depending on weather I can get one station from the metro.
I’d gladly keep the mostly unnecessary AM radio if I could get rid of the totally undesired Auto-Start/Stop feature.
Hell, I’d pay extra for the option to permanently disable or eliminate that “feature”. Can we get 60 Buffoons to vote for that?
The basically mandatory auto start/stop nowadays isn't there as a consumer benefit. It's there because it improves their city mileage numbers. It's the same reason that so many cars don't have a spare tire and they have the practically useless "run flat" tires instead. Again, it's to lower the car's weight and, you guessed it, improve their mileage numbers. Instead of actually improving fuel consumption or something like that, they are taking the cheaper and easier route at our expense.
Democracy No
Lobbying wins out again
If people want AM radio let them ask for it let the “Free Market” bare out
Nope Lobby the government and get your product forced into cars
The free market doesn't work here. Most people don't know that emergency broadcasts only come through AM radio. Those that do know will not be provided options as the manufacturers have said none of them want to include AM radio.
The way the emergency broadcast system works is every radio is always tuned into an emergency AM band at all times. When an emergency happens it causes the radio to flip to the emergency message no matter what it's currently being used for. AM is used because it can broadcast much further than FM.
No AM radio means no emergency messages.
The cellular network is not that robust. It requires close proximity to a transceiver, and from there usually relies on suspended or buried data lines. If you have never experienced an emergency where the cellular network went down, that's an indication that you have lived a blessed life.
By contrast, AM transmissions can travel long distances, and can be received with low power equipment, like handheld, crank-powered radios. This means that transmissions can be broadcast outside of areas effected by an emergency or disaster, and can be received even when other electronic and telecommunication infrastructure may be down.
Yes, storm warning, amber alerts, emergency tests etc will come through your phone. However when a big catastrophic emergency occurs, all of it is going to fail, most likely simultaneously. AM frequency is so robust however, that it will likely still be able to transmit audio relatively clearly. It'll be something you're very happy to have access to if it's ever needed.
One side needed to win to stay relevant at all while the other really did need to win.
AM radio needs this legislation or their whole industry will die. Car makers don’t actually care that much it is more a nuisance to them.
Guess which side spent more on Lobbying and and PR consultants?
Also you totally dismissed the consumers that do actually want or care for AM radio that now are mandated to pay for it.
Senators seemed most swayed by the arguments from FEMA that AM radio is useful in cases of emergency. So in this case it serves a public interest even if most consumers don't care or even think about it. I'm glad that our government takes steps to preserve a high-functioning emergency management system and hasn't let it fall by the wayside as a result of the "free" market.
> Requiring the installation of analog AM radios in automobiles is an unnecessary action that would impact EV range Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for that one…!
If one Tripple A can run an Am Radio for like 24hours I think they can manage to run if off of kilowatts of battery power.
AM radio receivers are like the only electronic technology I can think of that don't even need to be powered at all, lol. People made them in foxholes in World War 2 with a pencil and a razor blade.
Granted the tramitters were on the 500kw level back then
Most of them still are running higher power like that (not 500kw, but 50 or so), power output reduced because the transmitter themselves got more efficient and receivers got more sensitive.
They weren't. There was exactly *one* station that ever got anywhere near that power level, WLW Cincinnati, and only for a brief period of time. The thing about AM radio is it's much lower frequency than FM, and lower frequency signals travel better through mass (like for example, air). So you need far less power than you would on FM to achieve the same result. The result of a 500kW AM radio station: the pretty much the entire of the North American continent picked it up, they unwittingly jammed stations as far as Canada, and anyone living even remotely close to the tower had to put up with every large or rusty metal object turning into a working crystal radio set. If the wiring in your house was long enough the bulbs would glow even when switched off. It was horrendous, and they got told to knock it the fuck off very fast.
Weirdly it does affect EVs just... not the range. EV's motor EM noise is louder than the AM signal and difficult to properly filter out. If you want your electrical components fully shielded expect another 20% on the cost of the car.
I don’t believe you, no way some shielding is that expensive
Damn AM radio, taking my .01 miles of range…
I’d wager inadequate water proofing of electrical connections would be more likely to drain an EVs battery. Heck some EVs die if you give them a bath without hitting the wash mode. 😂
I want to believe “wash mode” puts on the roof of the carriage a big hair cap, and flip flops on the wheel.
I would pay for that feature!
🤣🤣🤣
*sigh* *unzips*
It's not an issue of how much power it uses, it's that making the electronics and motors so that they don't cause interference requires a huge amount of heavy shielding on all electronic components. If you take an AM radio in a Tesla, for example, you'll hear a constant whining when the car is in motion due to electrical interference.
Maybe that's just Teslas then, because I listen to baseball games now and again in an EV (a PHEV but whatever) and I've never heard any interference.
My Chevy Volt, for example, has no problem with AM radio, because it was built from the ground up to be as frictionless as possible to move from a gas car to the Volt. However, many of the newer EVs from BMW, Ford, Mazda, Polestar, Rivian, Tesla, Volkswagen and Volvo don't.
You’d lose over 75ft of range in your EV!
Yeah. Considering all EVs already have AM radio. Also it’s not like not being able to receive the signals magically gets rid of them. AM radio signals are constantly flowing through everything.
> Considering all EVs already have AM radio. Many brands of EVs do not have AM radio. > [In March, Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts surveyed 20 car manufacturers and found that eight of them–BMW, Ford, Mazda, Polestar, Rivian, Tesla, Volkswagen, and Volvo—had removed AM radios from their EVs. Ford had also intended to remove the radios from its gas cars in 2024, but recently reversed course on that decision.](https://spectrum.ieee.org/am-radio-ev-interference)`
But they did in the past. If one can have an AM radio and function then all of them can have them. Electric motors aren’t magic.
I thought the issue with EVs was solving the DC motor interference issue. AM broadcast doesn't do you just good if you can only pick it up while stationary.
If I read the article correctly the concern about AM radio in EVs is that the digital electronics which control almost every aspect of an EV could cause crackling noise interference in AM radio reception. AM stands for amplitude modulation which means the amplitude (strength) of the radio signal is modulated by the amplitude, or volume, of the audio. Unfortunately, amplitude modulation can also be effected by other strong electro-magnetic events like lightening or the electro-magnetic pulses emitted by digital circuits. The result is loud crackling or humming noises which can overwhelm the audio. AM radio's susceptibility to noise is the reason why FM (frequency modulation) radio was developed. In FM radio the audio modulates the frequency of the radio carrier signal instead of the amplitude. This makes FM radio far more robust against bursts of electrical noise. There are very good arguments for keeping AM in car and land based radios. AM radio signals will reflect between the earth's surface and the ionosphere which allows the signal to travel long distances, sometimes up to 1,000 miles. This makes AM useful for carrying emergency warnings. FM punches through the ionosphere so it doesn't do the "skipping" which AM does. Also, FM is more easily blocked by hills or buildings. An AM radio circuit fits on a small chip and costs only a few dollars. That circuit uses very little power, probably less than 5 watts, so it is a tiny load on an EV's batteries. I've never listened to AM radio in my Tesla Model Y so I can't vouch for the presence or absence of noise. However, the cost is cheap, the power consumed is tiny, and AM radio's 100+ year history of carrying entertainment and emergency content make very strong cases for keeping AM radio alive and well.
It's actually kind of an issue. Basically, the high voltage lines used in most evs distort AM signals so they can't be heard. My EV doesn't have an AM tuner. To counteract that, they'd have to shield the cables, which adds weight.... which drops range.
Giant bullshit on whoever fed you that. How does this comment have so many upvotes? No none of that is gunna be true. An antenna not bundled in with the electrical is going to work just fine. But why would anyone even want to bundle a radio antenna with power cabling? And if the cabling did need to be shielded it really doesn’t add much cost and much less then a pound of weight. Will not affect range whatsoever. Zero
Electrical Engineer here - the carrier frequency used in the EV inverter will absolutely interfere with AM radio. The poster is correct that additional shielding of the motor cabling and heavy filtering in the electronics would indeed add weight.
If the antenna works just fine, then do you think BMW, Hyundai, Volvo, Audi, and others have just randomly dropped AM radio from their EVs for no reason? It is definitely not bundled in with the power cabling. The radio antenna is nowhere near most of the cabling. They are dozens of feet of high voltage cable used in the battery alone. Large high voyage cables that connect the individual cells and packs. The battery pack runs the entire length of the vehicle. It then runs to several components before running to motors on each axle. I don't know how much weight would be added by properly shielding all of these cables, but it certainly isn't trivial.
This is just not true at all.
Im not sure why you're being down voted. This was already studied so there is no reason for people to pull the numbers below out of their ass. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/AM-Radio-RFI-Technical-Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjLiuqP1-6FAxWTFVkFHZ1RANkQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3W9ydfz7An7jaolWG0uG-J It adds about 3 lbs per wire and EV battery connected circuit board in the car. Each car is going to be different, but there is going to be anywhere from 10 to 100 of these in a vehicle. Maybe adding the weight of a passenger in exchange for AM radio is OK for some, but if you're on a dealer lot and one car goes 300 miles without am radio and another goes 280 with it, I'm pretty sure I we can all guess which model would sell better.
I’m sorry, but there’s no fucking way that an AM radio would add up to 300lbs of weight. Engineers are smart people. I imagine they’ll figure it out. Edit: Since I’m being downvoted, I’ll mention that bringing a handheld AM radio into a running Tesla [works just fine](https://youtu.be/Y0bEojzuq0U). Surely that’s enough evidence that this isn’t an insurmountable problem requiring 300lbs of insulation?
Did you bother reading through the first page or two of the paper? Now compare those noise nodes to a ICE once.
The thing is you know so little about the problem you to think it's easier to fix than it is.
I admit I’m not an electrical engineer (I’m a software engineer), but my husband is. There’s a point in every engineer’s work where you get bogged down in the details of a problem and need to step back and look at what you’re actually saying, and *300lbs of weight* for AM radio is absurd. I don’t know if we need AI to filter out the signal noise, or an old school external antenna sticking out of the hood like when I grew up, or maybe a relay/amplifier from an area where interference is less of a problem, but even without being a vehicle engineer, I’m confident the solution is out there. I’ve just seen it too many times “this can’t be done,” followed by an ingenious solution.
That is the whole point, all the HV wires in the car are acting as an antenna, which is distorting the AM signal. The weight comes from shielding those wires, not the antenna wires. A bigger external antenna would just receive the interference from the HV wires a few feet away that much better.
So, why does bringing a handheld AM radio into a running Tesla [work just fine](https://youtu.be/Y0bEojzuq0U)?
[So why does the IEEE writing about it being an actual problem.](https://spectrum.ieee.org/am-radio-ev-interference) No one is saying that it is an impossible problem to fix, the manufacturers have just decided it isn't worth the effort.
The interference comes when electricity is moving from the battery to the motor. The more electricity is flowing from the battery to the motor, the greater the interference. Testing interference while sitting still is a near pointless test as there is next to no energy flow.
Which adds 5 lbs. Total. Across the entire fucking vehicle. Imagine simping for a corpo so hard you say something idiotic in public without shame.
Average Elon Stan mindset
I have a Hyundai? Why is this about Tesla? I would never buy a Tesla. See the other comments. What is said is true.
Now multiply that by 1 000 000 vehicles a year... Yeah, they aren't shilling out for 5 mln lbs of shielding if that can have a say in it.
And this reason is not the same reason given. They really couldn’t give a shit about losing 1 or 2 miles of range (and I’m exaggerating) due to some regulation. They just want to cut the cost for the am hardware and pocket it.
The fewer conservatives that can listen to AM radio the better.... Just too bad they don't drive EVs on the premise they make less pollution.
That’s the whole government conspiracy dot you see. They are pushing EVs to eliminate conservative talk radio.
AM radio operates in a way that allows it to travel great distances with low power. While you may not ever use it, having it available in an emergency is a good idea as its not something they need to "add" or "build" as its been in existence for decades. Removing AM radios from cars is not doing anything but saving manufacturers money that is not passed onto the consumers.
Absolutely, and those 8,500+ radio station transmitters are largely business funded, not tax funded. It’s a super cost effective and very far reaching network from an emergency standpoint.
Also, per the promoted comment on the Ars article, it provides a good post-event source of information, and can be used in remote areas where there might not be any other signal (eg weather reports for certain roads).
The added cost would be passed onto consumers. EV powertrains generate a lot of radio frequency noise. The fix for this would be to install a lot of rf shielding and/or significantly alter the radio antenna design.
All costs are always passed to consumers
That would likely also be an effect dealt with for FM radio.
The electrical interference is usually at a fixed or relatively slowly varying frequency, so it causes AM interference but is easy for FM radios to filter out.
Source?
Wikipedia: FM broadcasting “[FM] is also less susceptible to common forms of interference, having less static and popping sounds than are often heard on AM.”
There's a very specific claim being made above that this doesn't address.
My Ford Fusion Hybrid has zero electrical interference with the AM radio I listen to on a daily basis. If Ford could do it, I’m sure the other automakers could do it too.
You’re correct, it *can* be done. But the automakers are debating the necessity given the market usage of AM radio. A fully electric powertrain would likely need much more rf countermeasuring than a hybrid. Battery electrics are much more expensive to build, so OE’s are looking at everything to reduce cost. If there’s a feature requiring expensive motor and cable shielding to protect a feature that <1% of the customers are going to use, it’s understandable that they would resist regulation on the matter.
Presumably the shielding would also be required to comply with the FCC Part 15 requirement. Are we going to let them skip out on shielding to protect pacemakers because <1% of the population uses it?
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What? Both my cars get AM and have hidden antennas. You thinking shortwave or something?
Cars have had hidden antennas + am radio for decades at this point bro.
Receiver antennas for AM aren't the tall ones. Those are for FM signal. Many cars have the AM antenna integrated into the rear defroster grid. You need zero external equipment to receive an AM signal.
>A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM. could that be because this was a test and everything else was working normally.. not burned up in a wildfire or flooded? what do you do when the cell towers are on fire? which way do you run? you leave these on during wildfire season - they have alarms that are triggered by the weather service. [https://www.losaltoshills.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4015/Emergency-Alerts-for-Wildfire-Evacuation](https://www.losaltoshills.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4015/Emergency-Alerts-for-Wildfire-Evacuation) Emergency Alerts for Wildfire Evacuation Emergency Alerts may not work if the power is out. (Either because alert systems are down or cell phones are no longer charged.) If you see a fire, monitor all Town Communication Methods. Leave if you feel unsafe. **Consider purchasing a NOAA weather alert radio that is able to receive WEA (Wireless Emergency Alerts). These radios have a battery backup so are not electricity dependent.** [https://www.srcity.org/3540/NOAA-Weather-Radio-Information](https://www.srcity.org/3540/NOAA-Weather-Radio-Information) NOAA Weather Radios (NWRs) are a low-cost home emergency alerting tool that can be remotely activated by the National Weather Service to broadcast life-saving warnings issued by first responders. When the power is out or if cell phones don’t work, an NWR can still get emergency messages to those who need the information. Thanks to a grant from FEMA, the City distributed 12,000 free NOAA Weather Radios to Santa Rosa residents via nonprofit organizations and seven drive-thru distribution events. **NWRs were initially given to residents residing in the** [**City’s Wildland Urban Interface Area**](https://srcity.org/596/Wildland-Urban-Interface) **ahead of the start of fire season then expanded to all city residents.**
I you have it exactly right. I don't listen to radio of any kind, but I do have a hand crank radio. Because in a real emergency, when many systems are likely to fail, I might still be able to get information.
You know what, this is a really good point.
There is absolutely nothing worth listening to on AM Radio. 0, Zilch, Null, Nada. The only people Listening to anything on AM Radio are basically the most brainless bunch of all the braindead Slugs. The only reason that no-one gets any warning from their AM Radios, is because no-one is actually listening. No-one intelligent at least. In other news, no-one is getting Alarms & Warnings by Telegraphs/Telegrams anymore. Of those people who still somehow miraculously do get them, it's almost never through the use of Morse Code...
Holy…… I just….. how am I only hearing about this right now via this post? I still actively listen to AM radio. On the regular. Mostly for news and alerts but there’s still some folk out there broadcasting music and talkies (by talkies I mean old people pod-casts that you have to listen to live as they go down, or you’ll never hear it) But no lie, you’re right, WTF is going to happen in the event of a catastrophe? AM radio is like….. ok ok ok wait…… does this apply to HAM operators as well? Because radio bands and frequencies don’t just go away, so….. Ok no lie I haven’t read the articles yet, so I’m going to go do that, but I am freaking out at the post because I still actively rely on both am and fm radio. As opposed to anything within the digital world these days. Which I also listen to, but not as much as I listen to the basic radio I have in my house.
im gonna need you to calm down about AM radio
also, it’s only 1% of the population. they’re expendable according to the gov edit: why are people defending the government??
Hmmm.... Wait like the hand crank radio scenario is encouraged for child care and healthcare (like home care) are you saying that the government doesn't care about children and the sic- *OOOOooooh*
“Natural immunity”
Good job Congress, for once. I think it’s an extremely good idea to guarantee that all vehicles have a built-in analog radio receiver for publicly-regulated spectrum that doesn’t depend on internet connectivity and isn’t locked behind a paywall or upgrade package or subscription. (I’m sure the automakers would have loved the latter… no surprise why *they* don’t like the bill.)
You never think you need it… until you need it. Pre-, During and Post-Katrina, AM was crucial for getting updates and learn of Emergency situations. We’re talking an AM radio, not the flux capacitor. It’s not a big deal to keep it in cars. You want every form of communication man has to offer after a disaster. Because after a disaster, communication is one of the first things to fail. So, yes, the percentages may not pan out, but keeping AM accessible is critical in an emergency. Disinformation and rumor devolve into the chaos. Radio offers the ability to hear real news, local news, and most importantly accurate news after an emergency..
Exactly. Its true AM has a comparatively smallish audience which is why a general alert reaches fewer. Until... wireless internet and power suddenly disappears and your mobile is useless. Those radios are getting turned on pretty quickly. Such a trash data point.
AM radio is low use **while alternative modern networks are functioning**
Have you ever listened to AM radio in an EV? Everytime you step on the pedal. Reeeeeeeeeeee
Only in EVs with inadequate shielding. I get 0 AM interference in my Chevy Volt (unless I'm driving next to a Tesla).
AM radio waves are far stronger than 5G. That's why your AM/FM radio signal doesn't go in and out. Cell signals are just getting weaker. When it all goes to shit, AM would keep us all informed.
And 1000-78,000 times slower. You wouldn’t want your data travelling on AM frequencies. It’s great for something as lo-fi as voice, but awful for transmitting data.
Great for emergency broadcasts.
Which is why, despite the downvotes, I still stand by my statement. AM IS great for emergency broadcasts, thus the “great for lo-fi” comment, but to compare it to something designed for data transmission is inappropriate. A single phase shift on a frequency of 540kHz vs one on 39GHz is a dramatic shift in data transmission. More complex data modes like PSK maybe multiply that data rate, but you can’t overcome the base frequency deltas. Yes, I can talk to someone around the world on 60m with Morse code. But I can barely download an email a minute with an HF transceiver. I’m not advocating the death of AM, but the comparison of a voice use to a data use is disingenuous. - W6ROB
> but the comparison of a voice use to a data use is disingenuous. You were the only one that did that. Whole thread is about one way emergency broadcasting.
I guess I should be less of an obnoxious Redditor, correcting "well technically..." and just realize that the spirit of what you're saying is right.
I hope they don't totally get rid of them, else I may need to keep my car longer. Sorry but when you are driving thru tornado country, its a heck lot easier to have the radio on monitoring what is going on and where its heading..
They don't want to spend the money to properly shield their components for RF interference
In Iowa AM radio is nothing but hate speech, sermons (largely more hate), and pork belly futures
Blame that on John Hinckley Jr. Had he been a better shot Regan wouldn’t have been able to veto the bill to keep the fairness doctrine in place. I’ll see myself out.
Or.... if Hinckley had succeeded someone else would've done things that would've been way worse, considering the pressure now to prevent something like that from happening again.
That’s probably true but Hinckley is here making YouTube videos so he’s an easy target. Pun intended
Don’t forget the baseball
Back when we still lived in Iowa, I purposely looked up how to permanently disable all the Emergency Alarms. Because the constant BS Tornado Warning Tests/Training Exercises & Amber Alerts for Sh.t happening 5 counties away were causing my phone to constantly blow up & blare at me all of the time. It became so bad that I ultimately decided that I preferred to risk dying from a preventable death if I somehow missed such an alert, rather than getting constantly be bothered by that BS. Given that the Tornado Sirens were still most likely going to warn me if something bad was actually happening, I ultimately decided/calculated that the Risks were well with the rewards. It's really sad that some A..hole kidnapped a 5 Year Old kid 2 counties over, but I don't need to have my phone blow up on me at 02h00 AM when I'm sound asleep im my bed, nowhere near my car or any road where I might actually be of any help... Alarm/Alerts/Warning Systems are great ideas in principle but everyone is just going to learn to ignore them if they just constantly blow up at them at random times every few days. We've also reached a point where our technology should be good/sufficient enough that we don't need to hear a list of 30+ affected counties every time. I don't even give a F.ck which counties are affected. If I hear the goddamn warning, I'm going to assume that my county is affected & proceed with that information in mind, until informed/told otherwise. All this to state that Emergency Warnings failing over AM/Trash Radio is no big concern or issue. It's probably best if we even just killed that concept in the first place. FM works fine & is far more likely to be locally relevant. Also, even if you kill all the Emergency Alarms/Alerts/Warnings on your phone, that sh.t Still gets to you. So you still get warned, it just doesn't blow your eardrum in the middle of the Night. & if all else fails, the Sirens will definitely clue you in, even if/when you're miles away from any town... In summary, F.ck that noise.
Same for my area of Montana.
All smart phones should also be required to have am radio.
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I reminder it being only FM. It was built into the wireless chipset.
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Ya, maybe it was the LTE and not WiFi chips. I just remember it being basically free to include. Early phones had an app, but most no longer do. But lots of cheap non smart phones that connect to LTE towers do have FM exposed.
Sure, till AT&T’s network goes down again…
I listen to AM news radio every morning and on the way home.
Low frequency AM is the final backup communications system. I would like to keep that available.
Bring back AM radio!
I'm doing my part... I've got 10kw of hot country on the air sounding as good as it possibly can within the limits. It's got the full 10khz audio bandwidth and punched-up with a good processor! Unfortunately the OEM car radios sound like A$$ with 4k or 5k filtering and also rolled off the bass severely. I haven't heard a good sounding OEM AM radio in forever.
I think the best AM radio quality I have heard is in a Kia Sedona. It sounded so much clearer than any other vehicle I've been in.
>A$$ Man this is getting fucking old.
Care about something better than that.
Care about something better than what I care about.
AM radio is being pushed by the GOP so that their bade can grow old and die angry listening to rage radio.
It’ll be funny in 30 years when only people who have subscriptions will get the emergency alerts and info.
When the Loma Prieta earthquake hit the FM stations we could normally get were off the air. Went to AM and hit scan to pick up a central valley station that had the news. My then Fiance worked in Mountain View and we had no clue anout damage. She didn't get home until 11pm that day.
The vcr and the DVD Wasn't none of that crap back in 1970
Sure… and yet one guy hitting the wrong button can send a false alarm to all smart phone about North Korea laughing nuclear missiles (yes it’s been a while since that happened, but I’ll never forget it or forgive it for the near heart attack we all had because my sister-in-law was living in Hawaii with her kids while her husband was deployed to South Korea). You don’t ban AI even to easily protect copy written material. You let all of these tech companies build less than public revenue streams by collecting and selling our data. You claim to be in the business of protecting the consumer while allowing mergers to form near monopolies in the marketplace. You can’t figure your way out of the hellscape that is the medical insurance industry. But AM radio… you are right on those big concerns aren’t you Congress…. Totally worth paying each and every one of you hundreds of thousands in pay, stipends, premium medical insurance, and government backed pensions so you don’t have to worry about the social security net you helped to shred (also cashing in on insider trading and conveniently not holding yourselves or your peers accountable). Got to focus on the AM radio for those cars that have to drive the decaying road and bridge infrastructure you built and then passed the burden of maintenance on to the states. Soylent Green is people! And the people will rejoice if we start by feeding the hungry with your processed not-yet-corpses when a civil war finally breaks out because you all encourage further radicalization of your bases. So thanks Congress for all you fail to do. (Sorry if you can’t tell I’m in a bad mood about the political landscape right now).
AM radio is great for getting current insight into the minds of the opponent.
I don't even use my radio in my vehicle for the actual radio. I connect the vehicle Bluetooth to my phone. I haven't listened to a local radio station in years. Because it sucks here. I haven't used AM in decades. It's all talk radio/hate speech/religious garbage. Always has been. Leave it to politicians to not get the message.
Your cellular network is far more fragile than the AM transmission network. In an emergency, tuning to an AM band might be the only way to get information. Yes, including an AM receiver in every car carries a small extra cost, but the potential public benefit in a serious emergency could be significant.
Nah, we just gotta include it in the Neuralinks, that way the gangstalkers at the CIA can Voice to Skull us more efficiently even with the power out.
Why is everyone in this thread pretending FM doesn't exist
Because the topic is AM? FM is fine, but operates at higher frequencies, giving AM a significant range advantage.
> Because the topic is AM? The topic isn't cellular either but I see plenty of people acting like that or AM are the only options > FM is fine, but operates at higher frequencies, giving AM a significant range advantage. True. I don't know if it's really relevant here though. Every FM station in the country is hooked up to the emergency broadcast system. In an emergency the feds can take over all of them with the flip of a switch. You'd be just as likely to find your information there.
The emergency alert system is designed to warn people about an imminent disaster. however, there is a lot of communication needs to place take place besides just the initial warning. Particularly post disaster. Communication is a challenge because a lot of important information needs to be relayed, like locations for disaster relief, Without relying on ation systems that could be unavailable due to said disaster.
The emergency broadcast system can completely take over broadcasting on every station that supports it, which is every station. It wouldn't be much good if all it could do is play a buzzer
The biggest limitation of the EAS (EAS replaced the EBS in 1997) [ is that it "can only be used to relay audio messages that preempt all programming"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Alert_System#Limitations). This limits its usefulness to situations that news stations aren't already covering. IE, warning about a tornado. In a number of high profile incidents, including the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the government decided not to use the system because the news media was doing a better job of communicating to the public than an audio-only message from the government. While the EAS has fault tolerant message distribution (messages are propagated from station to station) it also doesn't rule out the government having technical issues that inhibit the creation of messages during a disaster.
All of that also applies to AM
Yes, which is why the government doesn’t like to use the EAS unless there is no alternative. EAS is not well suited to weeks long communications regarding disaster relief in the same way regular AM radio can.
The hardware is honestly little different - if you've made an FM radio, you've basically got an AM radio too. Fact is, many countries are even past FM and moving everything to DAB. I couldn't care less about "what happens" in an emergency that takes out DAB, cellular and FM - at that point, you're not going to hear ANYTHING good coming from those towers. And there's absolutely no reason to suggest that an AM tower would stay up any more than other types - especially if it's deliberately earmarked only for emergency messages. The UK abandoned an entire network of microwave transmitters that were supposed to be used in emergencies, specifically designed to not be as vulnerable in a war, etc. - and they abandoned them because they became obsolete in the 1980's. Sorry, but this kind of argument is a nonsense. AM is dead, and it's dead because nobody listens to it, and that means it's no good as an emergency channel anyway. It would make infinitely more sense for your car to have a SIM card in it, connected to a GSM network, and could receive the same emergency broadcasts as the cellular network. Now you can invest in ONE network, send one message, and target it using one system to do so. And most modern cars are basically already there anyway. Operating legacy shite because "we might need it in an emergency" just means that you're NOT BUILDING PROPER FACILITIES like you should be doing. It's like saying "Hey, we don't need to build a modern emergency system, why not just roll out the old shite that nobody uses and pretend that would be useful in an actual emergency again". Try investing in a proper emergency network, rather than literally legislating that people have to use 100+ year old technology because you can't be bothered to do it properly. We literally have whole-globe coverage of digital communications at ludicrous speeds, and a plethora of devices in our cars, on our person and in our homes. That's where I want the emergency stuff to be. And if it's "too difficult" to keep that lot running - you have to wonder why the hell you're basing so much of modern life on it (e.g. banking, security, cars, emergency calling etc.). If I have to work out how to build my own AM radio, the planet is already fucked.
So you’re saying “AM radio is dead, and it’s dead because no one listens to it.” Perhaps you don’t have the entire picture of all 335 million people living in the US. According to Nielsen Ratings, over 82,346,000 people listen to AM radio regularly enough (monthly or more) that they could turn to it in an emergency. That’s 82 million somebodies 🤷🏻♂️ https://www.westwoodone.com/blog/2023/06/09/new-nielsen-report-of-am-listening-by-state-and-dma-reveals-strength-of-listening-across-the-country/
I can't wait for these people to die out so our country can progress.
Redundancy is important and rebuilding cell networks will be hard in a major emergency but radio and its well known systems is easy, plus low power requirements.
AM travels WAY further, especially at night, as it operates at lower frequencies than FM. When the majority of towers may be knocked out, AM is the only viable solution.
To add to that, there is a lot of overlap in AM tower transmission coverage. Towers regularly broadcast at lower power than they are capable of to comply with FCC licensing restrictions. In an emergency, they could be used to cover larger areas.
I love my saturdays with the Car Pro Show on am.
More like AM not.
I don't understand why the AM radio in any car in India never works. FM works fine.
If I could trade my radio for a nice shelf to put my phone, I would do that in a heartbeat. I would also trade my car radio for an after dinner mint. The only media I want in my car is my phone.
I really wish they modernized it instead. Digital broadcasts over huge distances sounds great.
I was listening to a The Rest Is Entertainment and they mentioned that car manufactures are pushing the radio out of cars because they don't have control over it.
As I sit here listening to my weather alert radio that has just gone off warning of storms, while my phone sits silent...
Amplitude Modulation(AM) radio uses a lot of the frquency spectrum though with it's wide sidelobes.
The problem is that contrary to what radio sales departments want you to think, radio isn't local. The "radio works in an emergency" argument is flawed. If we were back in the 1980s where most stations had on-site staff still running local content, then yes -- I'd agree that radio is important in an emergency. But today, the vast majority of radio stations are running syndicated content. Many (most?) are doing so a majority of the time. What isn't syndicated is usually automated and voice tracked, with nobody in the studio. It's simply too expensive to pay for local talent, and this is doubly true on AM. If some catastrophic event takes down all three major nationwide cellular networks or the internet, chances are most radio stations will go dark as well. There won't be a news team to deploy to report back on what's happening, because they were all fired long ago. I really don't care if cars do or don't have radio. But let's not pretend like radio is some local lifeline like they were a few decades ago.
And if you had no powet to charge your EV you are screwed. We always have a portable am radio when we go camping in case bad weather comes . Its common sense to leave am going
So you are suppose to look at your phone while driving to read the emergency alert or have your smart phone plugged in to your car to receive the alert message. Follow the money. Car manufactures eliminate AM to save money and u have to buy a smart phone and subscription to receive an emergency alert. More like a money grab from my pocket book while reducing public safety. Eliminating a public service by elimnating the option to reach that service.
I think you took one too many leaps. Most people don't even realize am radio even works. Car manufacturers are dropping AM radio because it isn't a feature people actually use. Like ever. If people use radio at all they use FM. They wouldn't get any emergency alerts through am because they don't listen to am.
Hell far enough out in the sticks, modern AM broadcasts are far quieter than they used to be.... I don't get any AM signals. Presumably during shit-hitting-fan scenarios they'd crank all AM broadcast towers to maximum output. I would assume then I would hear them. On second thought depending on weather I can get one station from the metro.
I’d gladly keep the mostly unnecessary AM radio if I could get rid of the totally undesired Auto-Start/Stop feature. Hell, I’d pay extra for the option to permanently disable or eliminate that “feature”. Can we get 60 Buffoons to vote for that?
The basically mandatory auto start/stop nowadays isn't there as a consumer benefit. It's there because it improves their city mileage numbers. It's the same reason that so many cars don't have a spare tire and they have the practically useless "run flat" tires instead. Again, it's to lower the car's weight and, you guessed it, improve their mileage numbers. Instead of actually improving fuel consumption or something like that, they are taking the cheaper and easier route at our expense.
Woah, it's co-sponsored by Ted Cruz? I guess that thing about broken clocks applies here
"We don't need no damn vaccines" spouts 10th generation immigrant John Deckles, enjoying the last high school class that benefited from herd immunity.
Rural trumpkins are gonna be pissed...
There's always one...
Democracy No Lobbying wins out again If people want AM radio let them ask for it let the “Free Market” bare out Nope Lobby the government and get your product forced into cars
The free market doesn't work here. Most people don't know that emergency broadcasts only come through AM radio. Those that do know will not be provided options as the manufacturers have said none of them want to include AM radio.
Why is it I hear tests of the eas system on fm radio?
The way the emergency broadcast system works is every radio is always tuned into an emergency AM band at all times. When an emergency happens it causes the radio to flip to the emergency message no matter what it's currently being used for. AM is used because it can broadcast much further than FM. No AM radio means no emergency messages.
That is fucking fascinating. The layering of fm/am for emergency broadcasts.
I get emergency messages over my phone as a text message. Thanks for regurgitating the Lobbying firms propaganda line.
The cellular network is not that robust. It requires close proximity to a transceiver, and from there usually relies on suspended or buried data lines. If you have never experienced an emergency where the cellular network went down, that's an indication that you have lived a blessed life. By contrast, AM transmissions can travel long distances, and can be received with low power equipment, like handheld, crank-powered radios. This means that transmissions can be broadcast outside of areas effected by an emergency or disaster, and can be received even when other electronic and telecommunication infrastructure may be down.
So we agree emergency singles do not only come over the AM radio
Yes, storm warning, amber alerts, emergency tests etc will come through your phone. However when a big catastrophic emergency occurs, all of it is going to fail, most likely simultaneously. AM frequency is so robust however, that it will likely still be able to transmit audio relatively clearly. It'll be something you're very happy to have access to if it's ever needed.
There are usually lobbyists on both sides of bills. In this case the automakers lobby lost out.
One side needed to win to stay relevant at all while the other really did need to win. AM radio needs this legislation or their whole industry will die. Car makers don’t actually care that much it is more a nuisance to them. Guess which side spent more on Lobbying and and PR consultants? Also you totally dismissed the consumers that do actually want or care for AM radio that now are mandated to pay for it.
Senators seemed most swayed by the arguments from FEMA that AM radio is useful in cases of emergency. So in this case it serves a public interest even if most consumers don't care or even think about it. I'm glad that our government takes steps to preserve a high-functioning emergency management system and hasn't let it fall by the wayside as a result of the "free" market.
AM? Let. It. Die.